No, TikTok Is Not ‘Programmable Fentanyl.’ Stop It

from the that's-not-how-any-of-this-works dept

What do Fentanyl and TikTok have in common? Well, the real answer is absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. But, if you want to push a nonsense moral panic, apparently, you compare the two.

While it’s unclear exactly where Congress currently stands on the push to ban TikTok in the US (or, at the very least, force ByteDance to divest its ownership stake in the company), it appears that some are still pushing for it. Strongly opinionated Venture Capitalist Vinod Khosla took to the pages of the Financial Times (while insisting he has no financial dog in this fight), to claim that the US must ban TikTok because it’s “programmable fentanyl.”

Few appreciate that TikTok is not available in China. Instead, Chinese consumers use Douyin, the sister app that features educational and patriotic videos, and is limited to 40 minutes per day of total usage. Spinach for Chinese kids, fentanyl — another chief export of China’s — for ours. Worse still, TikTok is a programmable fentanyl whose effects are under the control of the CCP.

First of all, it’s only true that “few appreciate” that point if you haven’t been paying any attention at all. The point that inside China people use Douyin rather than TikTok is mentioned in basically every discussion of the app. There are tons of articles in the media about it. It’s been mentioned in congressional hearings. So, if people don’t know about it, that means they haven’t been paying attention and their opinion is already not well informed.

But, more importantly, it’s a meaningless point. There are lots of apps that aren’t available in China because China is an authoritarian country that deliberately censors much of the internet that its citizens can access. While there are all sorts of accusations (including above) that the Chinese Communist Party puts its fingers on the moderation scales of TikTok, one indication that TikTok is a lot more free and open than Douyin is the very fact that China doesn’t allow TikTok inside the country.

I’d already pointed out if China is using TikTok to influence American opinions, it’s doing a terrible job of it, as American opinions towards China are at record lows.

And, just as an experiment, I just went on TikTok and searched for “uyghur.” I found tons of videos about China’s attempted genocide of the Uyghur people, many with hundreds of thousands of views. Even the autocomplete search suggestion shows “uyghur genocide” as the second option after I type Uyghur. I can also find lots of videos about Tiananmen Square. If China is really trying to suppress speech on TikTok, it’s not doing a great job.

But, even more to the point, this whole idea is based on the false belief that people are simply sheep that are easily brainwashed by an algorithm and the content they see. And… that’s not true. Human beings are not puppets. Yes, content can have some level of influence on the margins, but there’s little to no evidence supporting the idea that the internet, as a whole, is a vast brainwashing machine.

Of course, the internet and tech industries have a strong incentive to tell you that the internet is uniquely powerful in brainwashing you, because that makes it seem like it’s super worthwhile to buy ads or use those tools yourself to brainwash others. But, most of that is nonsense.

In addition, the claim of “programmable fentanyl” is even dumber. It’s yet another attempt to pretend that speech is somehow the equivalent of something you actually put into your body. As we’ve discussed before, speech online is not lead paint or cigarettes or chocolate or fentanyl.

It’s speech.

And sometimes there’s speech we disagree with. And sometimes that speech we disagree with is persuasive. But in a free society, we deal with that. We respond to it. We explain why it’s wrong and we seek to persuade in the other direction.

We do not take the Chinese approach and shut down the speech. But that is exactly what people pushing a TikTok ban are doing. They’re so convinced (or they so want to convince us) of the power of online speech that they are giving way more power to speech than it actually has.

They’re treating it as if it’s some sort of mind-altering drug, rather than recognizing that it’s just another form of communication. And, in doing so, they’re actually giving more power to the Chinese government by suggesting that its speech is so powerful that it must be banned.

A free society has dealt with bad and misleading speech in the past. It is possible. Speech is not all powerful. It is not “brainwashing,” it is not like a drug. Sometimes it’s persuasive when we’d prefer it not be, but that doesn’t mean we need to ban it. Just counter it.

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Comments on “No, TikTok Is Not ‘Programmable Fentanyl.’ Stop It”

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Anonymous Coward says:

I only recently overcame my addiction to TikTok, so it’s frustrating to see people downplay the danger of this illicit Chinese techno-drug.

I wish I’d never begun dabbling in that world, and I hope you’ll reconsider the contempt and derision you seem to direct at people trying to protect other people from the ills of social media organized and curated by the CCP.

Triple changer says:

Re: Re:

We had two bags of instagram, seventy-five pellets of twitter, five sheets of high-powered twitch acid, a saltshaker half-full of reddit, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored tweets, skeets, grams, threads… Also, a quart of youtube, a quart of wechat, a case of snaps, a pint of raw pinterest, and two dozen truths. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious social media collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that really worried me was the pinterest. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of a pinterest binge, and I knew we’d get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

I hope you’ll reconsider the contempt and derision you seem to direct at people trying to protect other people

I remember the people who tried to “protect” other people from books, alcohol, video games, chocolate, cannabis, and other little trivialities that the first group cannot shut the fuck up about how many pearls they clutch at the thought of someone else having a little bit of fun or entertainment.

I will continue to heap mockery and derision on boring ass Karens like you until you get it through your thick skull. Try to take our toys away, we’ll make you fucking regret it.

T.L. (profile) says:

“While it’s unclear exactly where Congress currently stands on the push to ban TikTok in the US (or, at the very least, force ByteDance to divest its ownership stake in the company)”.

It’s not that unclear, the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act (the bill that passed as a standalone measure in March that would force TikTok to divest in approximately six months or be banned) is apparently being worked into the foreign aid package being voted on this weekend by the House. Basically, they’re trying to make sure that it gets codified by Congress, rather than let the Senate debate it on its own merits.

It’s referenced in passing here: https://www.politicususa.com/2024/04/17/mike-johnson-says-house-will-vote-on-ukraine-aid-on-saturday.html/amp

That means by using the foreign aid process to advance it (barring that it’s somehow stripped from the final bill in the Senate), this constitutionally problematic bill would become law, resulting in our tax dollars being wasted on another lawsuit over a likely unconstitutional TikTok/internet bill that may also allow the government to block other popular foreign-owned apps (Shein, AliExpress, Temu, etc.) and give the executive branch authority it shouldn’t have regarding what people can access online, which undercuts Biden’s pro-democracy messaging (bc it’s not exactly the right message to say you stand for freedom, when you advocated for a law that would allow the government to strip the people’s right to access internet platforms of their choosing), and risks angering young voters and possibly helping Trump win in November by adding to potential disillusionment over the government ignoring their legislative concerns (on top of Gaza, the economy and the environment/climate change) that could push enough to stay home or vote third-party, splintering the youth vote.

It would also incentivize autocratic governments and backsliding democracies to undermine internet freedom, ironically giving China reason to point out the U.S. contradicting itself on the matter after years of criticizing them for blocking websites. Content creators and (as a another recent TD article pointed out in the case of India after it banned TikTok in 2020) small business would also lose income: creators from income they make posting content (IG Reels no longer compensates creators, and it’d be difficult to rebuild their communities on other platforms), and smaller businesses through customer acquisition they may not as easily replicate on other social platforms.

JMT (profile) says:

Re: Re:

…why the hell should I listen to them about how horrible the republicans are about stripping away my rights?

You don’t need to listen to them when Republicans are screaming it at you themselves.

Voting in the side that isn’t threatening the entire (small-d) democratic system means you’ll get an opportunity to vote them out later. Voting in the other side might mean you’ll never get that opportunity again.

weevie833 (profile) says:

Training your brain

I am a college educator who studies social media systems and other scholarly stuff related to communication. I teach several classes about it. The critique here on the basis of free speech and persuasion is a legitimate argument. I, too, do not believe that the majority of consumers are so gullible (by now) that they simply inject every message into their brains as if it were true. They don’t, save for, perhaps TruthSocial members (I speculate). Congress is complaining about the wrong thing, IMO.

But here is where I part ways with the issues of caution. TikTok, like YouTube Shorts and the Facebook shorts equivalent, are “attention crack” that one simply cannot put down easily once immersed. The pattern of engagement with these types of media affects the brain much like practicing mindfulness, but to the opposite effect. Here is what the most recent research indicates:

1 – Attention span and focus: Studies indicate that frequent consumption of short-form video content may contribute to shorter attention spans and more fragmented focus. The rapid pace and constant novelty of these videos may condition the brain to expect constant stimulation and have difficulty maintaining concentration on longer-form content. Ask any school teacher.

2 – Dopamine response: The video recommendation algorithms on these platforms are designed to keep users engaged by providing an endless scroll of content tailored to their interests. This can trigger dopamine release in the brain’s reward pathways, potentially leading to addictive-like behaviors and making it harder to disengage.

3 – Cognitive overload: The fast-paced, visually stimulating nature of short-form content may contribute to cognitive overload, making it more difficult for the brain to process information and retain memories effectively.

4 – Reduced reflection and deep thinking: The bite-sized, often superficial nature of short-form content may discourage the type of deep, reflective thinking associated with longer-form content like books or in-depth articles.

None of these issues are justification for banning TikTok, et al. Still, any opportunity to reduce the potential negative impact of these systems on teens and pre-teens I view as a positive protective factor for the well-being of minors – the same as if we were talking about vaping. If Congress succeeds, it will be a nominal strike against free speech, which would be bad. But let’s not pretend that these systems are benign, either.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

“Still, any opportunity to reduce the potential negative impact of these systems on teens and pre-teens I view as a positive protective factor for the well-being of minors – the same as if we were talking about vaping.”

Except we’re not doing that. We’re freaking out about one specific app for political reasons and then coming up with bullshit justifications to for it.

It’s like if congress was worried about teens vaping, so they banned Juul and left every other vape company alone.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Mamba (profile) says:

Re:

This shit is just ridiculous. By your logic reading a good book is addictive because I get a dopamine response every time I turn the page. Libraries are like crack!

Lack of focus in children is significantly more likely to be from things that are well studied and substantiated than the tenuous link between social media and focus.

Such as:
*Forcing them to get up much too early. No studies support the times we wake children up is good for their cognitive development)
*Increase in childhood food scarcity because we’re actually a third world nation if you’re not in the top 30%.
*Under funding for adequate teaching materials, staff, education, etc. look at Idaho, they can’t even keep their schools standing.
*the ever increasing extracurricular activity load placed on children before and after school. A f
*the anxiety coming from the fact that we’re leaving them with no viable economic future, limited access to education, healthcare, food, and jobs in a world that will see massive climate driven extreme weather event interrupting life.
*under-treatment of health conditions because only in the USA do we deliver third world outcomes for first world prices.

Solve those problems first, and see if there’s actually anything there left to solve with social media. Blaming the latest popular activity for the downfall of the next generation using specious logic and subjective measurements while ignoring the actual, measurable, objective causes is a well trodden path. We’ve been here before. Last time, it was violent video games. Before that, it was rap. Before that it was rock. And before that it was dancing.

My oldest uses things like youtube/tiktok to mange his ADD. He’ll happy listen to videos while building legos. It gives him enough stimulation that he can focus for hours and hours. My youngest spends hours locating experts on any given subject and learning from them, because that’s what he’s driven to do as he’s on the spectrum. Last month it was the concept of infinity.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Solve those problems first, and see if there’s actually anything there left to solve with social media. Blaming the latest popular activity for the downfall of the next generation using specious logic and subjective measurements while ignoring the actual, measurable, objective causes is a well trodden path. We’ve been here before. Last time, it was violent video games. Before that, it was rap. Before that it was rock. And before that it was dancing.

What scares people in position of power and authority is the idea that subordinates, employees, underlings or children may actually have a life outside of whatever orders they’re currently following. They might develop interests that don’t immediately contribute to economic output or a college Ph.D thesis. Why, left to their own devices (sometimes literally), these munchkins might even get the idea that there’s more to life than drudgery and servitude. They might start disagreeing with figures of authority. Scandalous! Outrageous! Why, back in my day…

Have adults considered why the only thing kids these days do during downtime is scroll? What the fuck else is there time left for? If they’re not doing academic work or bonus credit projects or extracurricular activities and SkillShares, what time do you think kids have left? Time to play catch and throw Frisbees? Embark on lengthy Minecraft projects? Hell no, those activities aren’t even allowed in some families! What else is there to do on mobile phones but stream passive entertainment?

The biggest tragedy of children these days is that they’re brought up expected to be adults, while adults running the world do everything they can to act like goddamn children.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Have adults considered why the only thing kids these days do during downtime is scroll? What the fuck else is there time left for?

Corollary: Where are they supposed to do things with friends other than each other’s houses? “Third spaces” in general are disappearing, but moreso for teenagers because adults keep shutting down (or shuffling teens away from) places that said teens could hang out at without getting into any real trouble.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

That’s even without going into the whole trope about social media promoting high stress and low self-esteem, particularly among girls with body issues. Because apparently before social media, it was unheard of for children to compare who had the newest toys or the prettiest appearance. And of course parents NEVER ever compared how their children were performing academically with their peers, and certainly NEVER drove their confidence and self-esteem into the ground. Nah, it’s got to be the thing that’s making daughters wiggle their hips like they’re on OnlyFans…

Anonymous Coward says:

Strongly opinionated Venture Capitalist Vinod Khosla took to the pages of the Financial Times (while insisting he has no financial dog in this fight), to claim that the US must ban TikTok because it’s “programmable fentanyl.”

I interpreter that to mean that for Khosla, speech may be anathema to what ever is filling the space in their skull.

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Koby (profile) says:

Mentally Crippled

I’d already pointed out if China is using TikTok to influence American opinions, it’s doing a terrible job of it, as American opinions towards China are at record lows.

The opinion towards China doesn’t matter. The point of both fentanyl and tiktok is to cause the user to lose their mind, and then self-destruct. It doesn’t matter who you dislike when you’re dying from an overdose.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Mamba (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

You’re such a gullible fuck.

No one died from “The Tide Pod Challenge”, those that died from investing tide pods are under six, or have extreme dementia with diminished faculties.

Also, are you completely unaware that kids have been daring each other to do incredibly dumb and dangerous shit since God invented dirt? Did you have no friends and interact with no other children while growing up?

Is that why you’re socially stunted?

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

Where is there evidence that the point of TikTok is to cause people to lose their minds and then self-destruct? Where are the people dying of TikTok overdose?

Also, there were two points being made. One was about the China connection, the other was the comparison to Fentanyl. The article doesn’t claim that the opinion on China is part of the comparison.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

It’s boggles my mind that someone can describe Douyin as being full of “educational and patriotic videos” and not immediately realize that it’s government propaganda.

Like, do they also think that the reason China heavily censors its internet is to provide citizens with a better, more curated online experience?

Anonymous Coward says:

Dirt is on the hands of both US and Chinese social media companies because they both sell/give data to the government (probably multiple governments in US social media companies case), and/or sell user data to other companies.

In this case, I approve of heavy regulation of all social media companies, both foreign and domestic. And, here’s a fix, require all social media platforms cut reoccurring checks to all of their users – since the companies are Selling The Data anyway.

T.L. (profile) says:

“While it’s unclear exactly where Congress currently stands on the push to ban TikTok in the US (or, at the very least, force ByteDance to divest its ownership stake in the company)”.

It’s not that unclear, the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act (the bill that passed as a standalone measure in March that would force TikTok to divest in approximately six months or be banned) is apparently being worked into the foreign aid package being voted on this weekend by the House. Basically, they’re trying to make sure that it gets codified by Congress, rather than let the Senate debate it on its own merits.

That means by using the foreign aid process to advance it (barring that it’s somehow stripped from the final bill in the Senate), this constitutionally problematic bill would become law, resulting in our tax dollars being wasted on another lawsuit over a likely unconstitutional TikTok/internet bill that may also allow the government to block other popular foreign-owned apps (Shein, AliExpress, Temu, etc.) and give the executive branch authority it shouldn’t have regarding what people can access online, which undercuts Biden’s pro-democracy messaging (bc it’s not exactly the right message to say you stand for freedom, when you advocated for a law that would allow the government to strip the people’s right to access internet platforms of their choosing), and risks angering young voters and possibly helping Trump win in November by adding to potential disillusionment over the government ignoring their legislative concerns (on top of Gaza, the economy and the environment/climate change) that could push enough to stay home or vote third-party, splintering the youth vote. It would also incentivize autocratic governments and backsliding democracies to undermine internet freedom, ironically giving China reason to point out the U.S. contradicting itself on the matter after years of criticizing them for blocking websites. Content creators and (as a another recent TD article pointed out in the case of India after it banned TikTok in 2020) small business would also lose income: creators from income they make posting content (IG Reels no longer compensates creators, and it’d be difficult to rebuild their communities on other platforms), and smaller businesses through customer acquisition they may not as easily replicate on other social platforms.

Problem is, according to a March report from The Intercept, intelligence officials in multiple hearings and other public statements have stressed that the concerns regarding TikTok are hypothetical (and in some cases, indistinguishable from the risks associated with other social media platforms in terms of data collection and foreign influence risks), which makes the whole thing look like one of the reasons why Montana’s TikTok ban attempt failed, that it looks like an effort to stick it to China economically (aided and abetted by the fact that many of our politicians are tech inept or hold sinophobic beliefs that they can be led in the same way as those with financial conflicts of interest to TikTok’s rivals), not based on a credible threat where less restrictive measures aren’t applicable.

Anonymous Coward says:

America the land of the free ?
banning tik tok will only encourage the eu and russia to ban More american apps, millions of americans use tik tok its got videos on sport,tv, current affairs, politicans use it to reach young voters ,its popular because its easy to use and shows videos that you might like according to what videos you watch previously.
you could make a case for it being a great app to view anti china content

John85851 (profile) says:

Spinach to the Chinese

I want to know how the author thinks it’s spinach to the Chinese. Does he mean it’s a leafy green vegetable and all vegetables are good for people, which is a good thing?
Or does he mean in the Popeye sense, where eating a little spinach can give you super powers, which is complete hogwash?
If he means the latter, then his argument is even more weak.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Anonymous Coward says:

One YouTube video I was listening to warned that the tilktok ban might go beyond that and I think her coujd bebe right

I think that Protectunr Internet Communication And Comnerce Act (PICCA) that has been spoken of in prophecy for years is coming

Basef in prophecy this law will combine the worst of acta, sopa, tpp and the CDA in one bill

That is why I am planning on getting a place in Mexico where I can parks a computer

PICCA will not be enforceable on a home computer in Mexico

Until an ready to buy I found a place in ensenada for rent at about 950 USD a month where 8 gig internet is available

No home isp in the USA offers 8 gigs bandwidth

Contrary to what dime think, a home computer in Mexico is not subject to us jurisdiction

This place is convenient to one freeway and only about 90 minutes from the border where I can drive there once or twice a month to do maintenance on the machine and reboot

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

I turbs out there is nothing I can find with a static IP.

I want something where I can drive there once or twice a month and do maintenance on the machine

There are no data centers in Baja California I can find

I refuse to let the US government tell me what sites I can view and having an offshore PC is the best solution

Tijuana, ensenada, rosarito, and San Felipe do.not have any data centers I can find

I will need a static IP if I want to use it to bypass PICCA when it eventually does pass

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

A computer parked outside the country is not subject to US jurisdiction

I just can’t find any data centers in Baja California

As long as the data center itself is not American owned the us has no jurisdiction

That is why the hostdime colo in Guadalajara is out as it is American owned

As long as the ISP or colo is not American owned that cannot be subjected to American laws

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Having static IP is part of roll your own.

I am getting ready for PICCA, which is what think the site blocking bill will be

I read prophecy one that predicted this and the Protecting Internet Communication And Commetce Act (PICCA) will be acts, tpp, sopa, and CDA rolled into one bill, the worst censorship bill in history

What this prophet dud not see at the time is that PICCA cannot be enforced outside the United States if you roll your own, which is the purpose of having either a home in Mexico or using a colo there other than HostDime.

I refuse to let the government tell me what I can look at on the Internet

PICCA will be so broad that those in the USA will have to do that if they want an uncensored Net

Before travelling to the USA you should consider setting this up at home before travel so you are censored under PICCA

if you are planning trip to the USA you highly advised to do this before you go

Just set up your machine at home with vpn software before travel.

Anonymous Coward says:

“But, even more to the point, this whole idea is based on the false belief that people are simply sheep that are easily brainwashed by an algorithm and the content they see. And… that’s not true. Human beings are not puppets. Yes, content can have some level of influence on the margins, but there’s little to no evidence supporting the idea that the internet, as a whole, is a vast brainwashing machine.”

No need to worry about disinformation or fake news then.

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