Biden Admin Finally Points Out That The Record In The Murthy Case Is All Lies
from the calling-out-the-lies dept
One frustrating thing in following everything that has happened in the case that started out as Missouri v. Biden and is now Murthy v. Missouri at the Supreme Court, is that the case is full of lies. The whole case is kind of a mess for a variety of reasons. This includes the original plaintiffs (a mix of states and private actors, where it’s not clear why they’re all together, and it’s not clear that any of them have actual standing), as well as the framing and positioning of the case, including misrepresenting various elements of reality.
In some ways, this case is an uncomfortable one. I’ve spent years explaining why government should stay the fuck out of any attempt to pressure companies to moderate in one way or another. I celebrated the Backpage v. Dart decision, as it gave a clear update to the Supreme Court’s Bantam Books case regarding coercing bookstores not to carry books. On top of that, I’ve found some of the actions by the Biden administration, in trying to convince companies to change their moderation practices, highly problematic. There were plenty of times they should have just shut up.
But it did not appear to me that anything they did crossed the line from persuasion and use of the bully pulpit (perfectly legal and expected) to coercion (a violation of the 1st Amendment). It could be argued that where you draw that line is complex, and people can draw the line in different places. Indeed, there would be an interesting Supreme Court case to be heard that looks at the proper place to draw such a line.
But this isn’t that case (nor is this that Supreme Court). And that’s mostly because the record in the lower courts is a total mess, full of made up fantasies that were accepted as real and accurate.
Just a few weeks ago, I had a good conversation with a very smart lawyer who comes down on the other side of this case than I do. I told him that the part that was most frustrating to me was that it felt like the administration was arguing this case as if one side (and some judges) hadn’t just made up a bunch of shit and insisted it was fact. This allowed people to suggest that there was actual evidence on the record of the White House crossing the line into coercion.
The problem is that the evidence isn’t really there.
And now, finally, the Biden administration has found its voice on this. Its reply brief leading up to the oral arguments later this month finally makes a pretty direct call out to the lies from below on the record.
As they did at the stay stage, respondents try to defend that startling result by invoking the district court’s factual findings—which they assert are “unrebutted,” Resp. Br. 2—to substantiate their allegations of widespread government censorship. But the government vigorously disputed the district court’s findings below, and the Fifth Circuit declined to rely on many of them— presumably because they are unsupported or demonstrably wrong. Gov’t Br. 9. Respondents’ presentation to this Court paints a profoundly distorted picture by pervasively relying on those debunked findings.
Respondents still have not identified any instance in which any government official sought to coerce a platform’s editorial decisions with a threat of adverse government action. Nor can respondents point to any evidence that the government ever imposed any sanction when the platforms declined to moderate content the government had flagged—as routinely occurred. Instead, respondents principally argue that government officials transformed private platforms into state actors subject to First Amendment constraints merely by speaking to the public on matters of public concern or seeking to influence or inform the platforms’ editorial decisions. The Court should reject that radical expansion of the state-action doctrine, which would “eviscerate certain private entities’ rights to exercise editorial control over speech and speakers on their properties or platforms.”
They even call out (finally!!!) the one email that keeps making the rounds: the email from Biden digital guy Rob Flaherty to Facebook. Like many others, when I first saw this as presented by the district court, I thought it was an actual example of the White House overstepping its bounds and said as much. But then, after looking at the more detailed record and context I realized that the plaintiffs and the judge totally misrepresented the email. It was actually about a technical problem regarding signups to the Biden campaign account, which Rob got angry about. But it was presented as him being angry about content moderation choices. In context, you realize this email (while intemperate) had nothing to do with coercing speech. It was venting about a technical glitch.
However, both the district court and the 5th Circuit falsely present it as being about content moderation, just as the plaintiffs did. And here, the White House finally calls bullshit on this (though in a footnote):
Although space does not permit a full treatment of the inaccuracies in respondents’ account of the White House’s communications, we offer one other example: As proof of supposedly “ominous and coercive” “threats,” respondents recount that in July 2021, “the White House emailed Facebook stating, ‘Are you guys fucking serious? I want an answer on what happened here and I want it today.’ ” Resp. Br. 8 (quoting J.A. 740). But that admittedly crude comment was asking for an answer about a “technical” problem affecting the President’s own Instagram account—it had nothing to do with moderating other users’ content.
It’s kinda frustrating that the case has gotten this far with that falsehood on the record.
The reply brief also seems to be targeting Justice Kavanaugh, who you might consider a natural to reflexively side with the states against Biden, but the DOJ’s brief leans heavily on the ruling in Halleck, which was written by Kavanaugh:
Respondents ask this Court to rewrite the “constitutional boundary between the governmental and the private,” Manhattan Community Access Corp. v. Halleck, 139 S. Ct. 1921, 1928 (2019), by affirming a sweeping and unprecedented injunction based on sweeping and unprecedented understandings of Article III standing, the state-action doctrine, and the proper scope of equitable relief. Respondents insist that any person can establish standing to challenge any action affecting any speech by any third party merely by asserting a desire to hear it—a proposition that would effectively abolish Article III’s limits in free-speech cases. Respondents seek to transform private social-media platforms’ editorial choices into state action subject to the First Amendment. And respondents do not deny that the injunction installs the district court as the overseer of the Executive Branch’s communications with and about the platforms, muzzling senior officials’ speech to the public and exposing thousands of employees to contempt should the court conclude that their statements run afoul of the Fifth Circuit’s novel and vague standards.
The DOJ highlights the astounding weakness of the underlying record, which points to vague statements made by administration officials, followed by policy decisions made by tech companies, and insisting the two are connected, without showing any actual connection. And that should be seen as problematic.
Respondents assert (Br. 19-22) that they suffered “direct” injuries because the government purportedly caused platforms to moderate content respondents had posted. But the Fifth Circuit did not find that any particular government action caused a platform to do anything to any content posted by respondents that the platform would not have done in “its ‘broad and legitimate discretion’ as an independent company,” Changizi v. HHS, 82 F.4th 492, 497 (6th Cir. 2023) (citation omitted); see Gov’t Br. 17-18.
Seeking to plug that gap, respondents cite (Br. 19- 21) various instances in which the platforms moderated their content—most of which involve COVID-19-related content posted at the height of the pandemic. But respondents make little effort to connect those acts by the platforms to any specific action by the government. They do not, for example, suggest that government officials specifically targeted their content. Instead, they urge a “birds-eye view” of traceability, Resp. Br. 19 (citation omitted), under which they presume that the relevant acts of content moderation are traceable to government officials merely because those officials made general statements about content moderation at around the same time, see id. at 21.
That generalized approach fails. The platforms have strong independent business incentives to moderate content, see C.A. ROA 18,445-18,453; the platforms actually did moderate respondents’ COVID-19-related content starting in 2020, long before the bulk of the government actions challenged here, see Gov’t Br. 18-19; and each cited moderation decision is consistent with the platforms’ independent application of their own policies, see, e.g., J.A. 787-794 (Hines); J.A. 797-801 (Hoft). Especially given that context, respondents’ bare timing-based speculation does not establish traceability
I’m almost wondering if the DOJ didn’t really take this case as seriously until recently, which is why it feels like they’re finally coming out swinging at this point.
Indeed, the filing admits what I’ve said all along: if the government actually did what the respondents claim, then absolutely this would be a First Amendment violation. The problem is that there’s no evidence that they actually did it. And that makes this a messy case. I’d like the Supreme Court to rule that the White House cannot take actions to coerce social media companies, because that’s the correct answer.
But how does a White House deal with an injunction that says “stop doing this stuff we insist you’re doing, even though you’re not”? The lack of clarity here means that the White House’s only option is to go way beyond what the First Amendment prohibits to avoid crossing a line drawn insisting that perfectly legitimate activity is violating the First Amendment.
So, the brief admits that “yes, you should blame us if we had done all those awful things, but we didn’t.”
No one disputes that the government would have violated the First Amendment if it had used threats of adverse government action to coerce private social-media platforms into moderating content. See Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan, 372 U.S. 58, 67-68 (1963); Gov’t Br. 23, 26-27. But no such threats occurred here
The filing also calls out how the district court judge (repeatedly) inserted false quotes (or misattributed the quotes to make them seem worse):
Respondents repeat the district court’s assertion that the former White House Press Secretary made a “threat of ‘legal consequences’ if platforms do not censor misinformation more aggressively.” Resp. Br. 41 (quoting J.A. 111) (brackets omitted). But notwithstanding the internal quotation marks in that passage, the Press Secretary never uttered the words “legal consequences.” See C.A. ROA 23,764- 23,791. Instead, the words the district court attributed to her came from respondents’ statement of facts. Id. at 26,476. Although we have highlighted this error before, see Gov’t C.A. Br. 30; Gov’t C.A. Reply Br. 9, respondents continue to repeat it.
The problem is not just the misquotation, but the absence of any statement in the relevant briefing that could plausibly be described as a threat of legal consequences. Respondents repeat the district court’s assertion that the Press Secretary “linked the threat of a ‘robust anti-trust program’ with” a purported “censorship demand.” Resp. Br. 40 (citation omitted). In fact, she did no such thing. When asked to respond to a Senator’s comment that “ ‘if the Big Tech oligarchs can muzzle the former President, what’s to stop them from silencing you?’,” the Press Secretary said (among other things) that the President “supports better privacy protections and a robust anti-trust program”—a natural response to a question about “ ‘oligarchs.’ ” C.A. ROA 609. Like the other press statements on which the Fifth Circuit relied, see Gov’t Br. 31-32, that response cannot plausibly be characterized as a threat of adverse action if the platforms failed to take specific acts of content moderation. Deeming such general comments about important matters of public policy coercive would make it impossible for the President and his senior advisors to communicate with the public—or even to respond to press questions—on policy matters involving the platforms.
The government also highlights that the general admission that it’s allowed to participate in the marketplace of ideas, so long as it doesn’t do anything specific, which is weird and unworkable.
Respondents cite no authority supporting their proposed dichotomy between “abstract” and “particular” advocacy in this context. Their reliance on Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969) (per curiam), is misplaced because that decision holds that speech is unprotected under the First Amendment when it imminently incites particular unlawful acts. Even setting aside the fact that the government’s entitlement to speak is not rooted in the First Amendment, the Court in Brandenburg did not purport to ascribe constitutional significance to the level of specificity used to encourage otherwise lawful actions, such as private platforms’ content-moderation decisions.
Respondents’ novel distinction between abstract and specific speech is also unworkable. President Roosevelt lambasted not all journalism, but only the muckraking variety; President Wilson complained about stories on a particular topic (the alleged presence of troops in Turtle Bay); and President Biden condemned specific videos about Osama Bin Laden that were circulating online. Gov’t Br. 24, 49. Which of those statements were sufficiently “abstract” to pass muster? Conversely, why were all of the statements at issue here—including public comments by the President, the Surgeon General, and others about the general problem of COVID-19 falsehoods—too specific? Respondents do not provide any answers, and none are apparent.
The DOJ brief also cites our own amicus brief, which called out how the injunction is so far-reaching that it even precludes companies (of their own free will) reaching out to government officials to inquire about certain information, which is completely ridiculous and unworkable:
The injunction flouts traditional equitable principles because it extends relief far beyond that required to redress any cognizable harm to respondents, and its vague terms would irreparably harm the government and the public by chilling a host of legitimate Executive Branch communications. Gov’t Br. 45-50. It also would harm the platforms and their customers by precluding the companies from voluntarily seeking governmental input and collaboration to improve the products they offer. E.g., id. at 44, 49; cf. Floor64 Amicus Br. 5-16.
Anyway, I still fear that this is an easy case for the Supreme Court to screw up big time. Many of the amicus briefs in favor of the states were absolutely crazy (a few were more serious). But this is (finally) a strong brief from the White House explaining the many, many ways in which this particular case is just stupid.
Of course, that won’t stop the Supreme Court from issuing a dumb ruling, but maybe it’ll at least give a few justices enough pause to realize how stupid this could get if they accept as accurate the lies told down below.
Filed Under: 1st amendment, coercion, doj, free speech, jawboning, missouri v. biden, murthy v. missouri, persuasion, white house


Comments on “Biden Admin Finally Points Out That The Record In The Murthy Case Is All Lies”
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The same Biden regime that lies ceaselessly and wants women to accept predatory males infiltrating their single-sex spaces and undermining their sex-based rights?
That regime?
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If you are going to troll, can you at least stay on topic?
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Re: Re:
The corruption and lies of the Biden regime, which this site loves and defends, are always topical.
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Let’s see, here’s a list of the total indictments for every POTUS since the US came into being.
1-44: 0 indictments
45: 71 indictments
46: 0 indictments
Yup, sure looks like 46 is the problem..lol
Now, shouldn’t you be at a Klan rally discussing how rich and fruitful your relationship with Jesus is?
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Re: Re: Re:2
Yes, the current POTUS, his regime, and his allies at various levels of government are persecuting the previous POTUS, who just happens to be the incumbent’s #1 rival in the upcoming election.
Re: Re: Re:3
and 45 just happens to have committed a literal list of crimes.
I think you forgot that bit. 😉
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Re: Re: Re:4
Well, no, he didn’t actually. They literally had to make up a bunch. Bragg charged him with things that are not even crimes. James charged him with fraud where no one was defrauded. It’s all just made up nonsense.
It is increasingly looking like Fani Willis’s case was actually a money laundering scheme with her boyfriend and she may wind up being disbarred.
Remember when you guys like Avenati so much? This is starting to smell like that.
The ONLY crime Trump can legitimately said to have done was mishandle classified documents…except Biden did the same thing x10. (and was let off cuz he was too senile)
Oh, lets not forget $20M+ in bribes.
So no, more like the opposite, actually.
Re: Re: Re:5
And you got your law degree from where, again?
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Re: Re: Re:6
Imagine enjoying living in a society, where the only way to avoid jail, is that you have to have a law degree, to try to interpret millions of pages of often contradictory rules, in hope that some person with power wont abuse their discretion against you.
The law was meant to be interpretable by the average person, and the creation of this dare i say “priestly” class that channels “the will of the people”, was the same sort of abuse that the people who left Europe sought to escape.
Re: Re: Re:7
See all those rich pedophiles you kneel down to? You can thank them.
Re: Re: Re:7
Jay, just because no lawyer wanted to handle your revenge porn case doesn’t mean they’re all bad.
Just those who identify and vote Republican, like you. Those are the lawyers we should be wary of.
Re: Re: Re:7
Or you could just not share intimate videos of your ex on porn sites… Now law degree required!
Re: Re: Re:7
It’s word twisting, self serving twats like you that created the legal profession.
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Re: Re: Re:6
There certainly are plenty of lawyers, even professors of law willing to say to same.
That they are politically motivated is without question.
Re: Re: Re:7
Every accusation is an admission.
Your denial of the avalanche of evidence in multiple cases is politically motivated.
Trump claiming that every prosecution of his actual crimes is politically motivated is just him admitting that he would pursue politically motivated charges against his opponents. Remember his “lock her up” chants? Funny how Republicans admitted they didn’t have sufficient evidence for his witch hunts. Weird that all of Trumps charges are supported by actual evidence.
The part where he claims it’s election interference is the funniest part. He chose to make himself a candidate. The evidence didn’t exist only because he’s a candidate.
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Re: Re: Re:8
That isn’t a thing.
Well again, there is no “evidence”, but they literally didn’t charge him until he was a candidate. Fani Willis, the lady who’s about to be disbarred, coordinated with the white house.
Letitia James actually campaigned on “Getting” Trump. Charges to be determined later. That is by definition political.
You’re lying to yourself.
Thankfully, it’s all going up in smoke. But it’s frightened you gestapo assholes tried.
Re: Re: Re:9
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Re: Re: Re:9
Sure, several prosecutors, grand juries, and courts have found sufficient evidence to put Trump on trial and at least one jury and one judge have already found Trump liable for shit that he’s been accused of, but it’s not a thing.
None that Newsmax or your favorite news source TrueAmericanPatriotNews.ru would mention.
I’m not sure if you recall from your law classes at Dunning-Kruger University, but legal investigations take time, especially when they involve high profile complex cases and government agencies and elected officials. It’s especially complicated when you have a number of elected officials trying to interfere in the investigations. And of course Trump’s lawyers have also sought to delay trials.
There are literally articles explaining why.
Also, Trump was always a candidate. He said in 2021 he was going to run again. He decided to run again before some of the investigations even started.
I’m gonna go rob a bank and then file to run for office so that when they try to arrest and prosecute me, I’ll claim it’s politically motivated and then they’ll have to let me off! Brilliant!
So you have proof that no one else has? Why are you leaking this info in a comment section? Why haven’t you turned it over to officials? Why are you helping her by holding onto this evidence?
Everything is political now. Conservatives have turned going to the bathroom into a political issue. That doesn’t mean the charges aren’t real. The evidence is real. Trump has been known for his sketchy real estate empire since the 80s. And campaigning on taking down a criminal who commits crime is generally a good thing to campaign on as a candidate for attorney general. It’s a lot better than the conservatives who run on the platform of doing whatever Trump wants and protecting him from accountability. Gym Jordan is trying and failing at that magnificently.
So I hallucinated all the evidence being reported on Trump. Yeah, that’s the likely scenario.
I love how desperately you cling to this. It’s exactly the same tone as the post-election deniers. “Just wait, Trump’s going to be confirmed on January 6th!” And then the Biden inauguration rolled around. “Just wait, Trump is going to be restored to office in a six months!” Keep telling yourself that buddy. “Am I delusional? No, it’s everyone else!”
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Re: Re: Re:10
Yeah, all you’re doing is showing how little you understand.
Yes, “Journalists” do like to write propaganda pieces. These court cases are designed to occur during campaign season. No there’s not a good reason for that. If you couldn’t have had them years ago (you could) then you just should wait until after the election.
I.e. my banana republic lawfare is perfectly justified. Cool story bro.
??? Are you kidding? The evidence has been live on TV. Perfury is bad. If you’re a lawyer, perjury is super bad. Ask Bill Clinton.
Jim Jordan has been hitting homers. You really should like, read the news, not TD.
Evidence of WHAT? Most of the things he’s been charged with aren’t even crimes. Yes, sadly prosecutors get to do that. It’s kinda how they charged Rittenhouse with Murder. That was utterly wrong, but they did it anyway, despite it being textbook self defense.
You just aren’t very educated, huh?
Re: Re: Re:11
You mean I’m showing low little I watch and believe Newsmax.
Trump didn’t have to run. That they overlap with his candidacy is his choice. He chose to break the law. He chose to run for office. Look at all the other politicians who aren’t facing trials during their election campaigns. It’s like the ones who blatantly commit crimes catch charges…
The FBI investigation into the classified documents case didn’t even start until 2 years ago and the charges he caught were for the documents he chose to hide and not return less than 2 years ago. How could they bring charges resulting from an investigation they hadn’t completed?
It’s both an injustice to delay a trial and it’s a violation of the rights of the defendant to extend a trial more than necessary. Trump has a right to a speedy trial.
You saw Fani Willis coordinate with the White House on live TV? Is CSPAN actually getting interesting coverage these days? [citation needed]
His Smirnov evidence got iced. He doesn’t have anything else left except more bullshit.
“The most corroborating evidence we have is that 1023 from this highly credible, confidential human source.”
I look forward to your appearance as Trump’s next trial lawyer. Let me know when you appear before a court to make this argument. I need to buy stock in some popcorn companies first.
Then why were Trump-friendly prosecutors not able to do that with Hillary Clinton? Why is Trump the only supposed victim of this dastardly trick when pro-Trump prosecutors could have used it against his enemies?
This is just a variation on “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole.” If Trump catches so many charges in so many cases, maybe he’s actually a criminal. Name another politician who was hit with multiple civil and criminal charges stemming from completely different situations that were all proven to be bogus.
I don’t have a law degree from Dunning-Kruger University like you do, but I am decently educated. But it doesn’t matter whether I am educated or not. A sixth grader can see you’re full of shit.
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Re: Re: Re:12
That would still be election interference. Kinda worse actuallly.
Stephen Stone, is that you? This sounds like your kinda stupid.
Lol, so arguably, pretty sure that’s WHY they indicted him, just for that talking point, but from a legal standpoint it doesn’t actually improve things, at all.
https://jonathanturley.org/2024/02/22/no-the-indictment-of-alexander-smirnov-does-not-exonerate-hunter-biden/
You seem to be bragging that republicans have better ethics.
Yes, the fact that AGs can essentially indict anyone they want IS a huge problem actually. That’s why banana republics tend to be unstable. Do you want to be one of those?
Re: Re: Re:13
Again, it’s not election interference to charge a suspect with crimes after you’ve gathered evidence and a jury saw the evidence and indicted the suspect…just because the suspect chose to run for office.
Election interference is more like Trump asking Russia to hack the Democrats on national television. Election interference is conservatives telling people to vote for Clinton in 2016 via text message.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/social-media-influencer-douglass-mackey-sentenced-after-conviction-election
Stephen isn’t the only person in the world who enjoys calling out your bullshit.
They indicted him because he admitted that he lied about his accusations. That you aren’t concerned about that demonstrates, as the audience already knew, that you don’t care about the truth.
So a biased conservative who writes for…checks notes…the venerable birdcage liner known as the New York Post wrote a blog entry that provides no alternative evidence of misconduct by Joe Biden other than a reference he made to the (at the time) upcoming testimony of James Biden, which didn’t reveal what the writer claims was going to be revealed.
I wish there were an effective transcription method for conveying the sound of trying but failing to contain your laughter. I’d insert that here. Attempting and failing to prosecute your political enemies isn’t better ethics, it’s just incompetence. Republicans have launched multiple investigations and failed to find much of anything to indict and successfully prosecute anyone on. Juries unanimously rejected two of Durham’s attempts at indicting someone. He got one person on altering an email. Jordan has attempted to find something damning since he took over the judiciary committee. Considering his failure to keep students safe from a sexual predator, his history of failures and the injustices they have enabled are obscene.
Except it’s not just anyone. It’s someone who we have seen the evidence against who actually committed crimes. That you think the actions are not crimes isn’t relevant. You can think whatever you’d like to believe. Facts don’t care about your ignorance.
No, that’s why I’m voting against Trump again. He’s been promising to go after anyone who isn’t loyal to him or who has pursued charges against him or even just the media that hasn’t covered him in a positive light. He’s been tampering with witnesses and juries and trying to use stochastic terrorism to get judges and their staff murdered. He keeps making promises to commit unconstitutional acts that aren’t in the powers of the president if he gets reelected. That you can’t see that he’s a wannabe dictator is your problem, not anyone else’s.
Re: Re: Re:12 'I know, let's delay the trial until they CAN'T be tried in court!'
It’s both an injustice to delay a trial and it’s a violation of the rights of the defendant to extend a trial more than necessary. Trump has a right to a speedy trial.
Even setting aside the defendant’s right to a speedy trial the public would very much not be well served by holding off on a ‘did this person break every damn law they could?’ trial until after the person attains public office, when it would be either a moot point thanks to the atrocity that are pardons, immunity of the office, or create a massive problem of ‘okay we just removed them from office, sure hope replacing them is quick and easy and doesn’t have a bunch of people crying foul for having their votes effectively nullified’.
Much easier and better to hold the trial(s) before all that comes into play.
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Re: Re: Re:13
Then they should’ve been held years ago. But no, interfering with the election was the point.
Instead, YES, Trump is going to get elected, and it’s all going to become meaningless.
Think of it as the largest jury ever, if you like.
Re: Re: Re:14
Let’s say hypothetically that Trump didn’t choose to run for office. Is it still election interference? No? Because there’s no election to interfere with? So clearly Trump’s decision and action is what makes you think this is election interference.
The irony of the claim that the prosecution of Trump is election interference is that it’s literally the opposite and Trump is wanting to get elected so the charges go away. Trump’s candidacy is him trying to interfere with his trials.
Re: Re: Re:9
Fani Willis being disbarred is some major copium unmoored from facts.
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Re: Re: Re:10
No, it’s actually pretty common when lawyers commit perjury. Happened to Bill Clinton, in fact.
Willis very definitely commited perjury. If you’re a lawyer, you really don’t want to do that.
Re: Re: Re:11
I suppose you have some very definite evidence of that, then?
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Re: Re: Re:12
So you haven’t been paying attention to the news the last two weeks at all, then?
Re: Re: Re:13
So that’s a no, then?
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Re: Re: Re:14
I just wanted to establish that you’re ignorant.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-fani-wiliis-nathan-wade-relationship-perjury-1873737
Re: Re: Re:15
An ironic statement coming from you.
And that’s your definitive evidence? Trump lawyers claiming that they have phone records? I was hoping for something concrete.
Also, even if she perjured herself, you’re most likely shit out of luck: https://www.businessinsider.com/fani-willis-credibility-damaged-perjury-charges-unlikely-legal-experts-2024-3?r=US&IR=T
So despite your partisan hate towards her, there’s pretty much no chance that she’s getting disbarred. Keep huffing that copium.
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Re: Re: Re:16
….they presented those phone records in court. The perjury has been proven. It’s not “lawyers claiming that there’s evidence”. The evidence has been entered into the record.
You get that the issue is not really whether she’s charged with perjury, the issue is that she is likely to be disbarred over perjury. The bar won’t really care that she wasn’t charged. She is also more or less guaranteed to be tossed from the case.
Oh, cool, so you CAN google for yourself. How about you just do that next time.
Re: Re: Re:15
It’s funny how you still lack any reading comprehension.
You stated as a fact that “Willis very definitely commited perjury.”, then link to an article that in the very first paragraph says “Fani Willis, Atlanta district attorney, could be facing perjury charges”
Are you also a multi-millionaire because you thought you might buy a lottery-ticket?
Talk about being one big stupid clown.
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Re: Re: Re:16
Do you understand that committing perjury and being charged with it are different things?
No?
Jesus you people are sad. Google your own shit.
Re: Re: Re:17
Do you understand that it’s only perjury if it’s factually proven? Do you understand that being charged isn’t the same as being guilty until a verdict has been reached? Do you even know how the courts and the law work?
You are a particularly pathetic clown.
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Re: Re: Re:18
No, actually. Particularly from the point of view of the bar association.
Again, ask Bill Clinton.
I cannot describe how moronic your understanding is.
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Re: Re: Re:18
No, actually. Particularly as far as the bar association is concerned. Again, ask Bill Clinton.
You have a completely moronic understanding here, and are trying to make that somehow my problem.
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Re: Re: Re:18
No, actually. Particularly as far as the bar association is concerned. Again, ask Bill Clinton.
You have a completely mooronic understanding here, and are trying to make that somehow my problem.
Re: Re: Re:19
Yes, actually. Perjury must be proven, how else can you know if it’s perjury?
I guess you missed the little niggling detail here, it was established that Clinton “didn’t testify truthfully” in federal court and he entered a plea bargain when he left office which resulted in him getting fined and loosing his Arkansas law license, there were no perjury charges filed. Details matter.
Do keep up, clown.
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Re: Re: Re:20
Oh dear god.
That’s perjury.
That’s called getting disbarred
That was my point
Yeah, I don’t think you’re following the thread here, dude.
Re: Re: Re:21
No, it isn’t. In this instance it was contempt of court, if it was perjury the judge would have said so. If you think I’m wrong, feel free to cite the relevant case were it was determined he committed perjury.
No, it isn’t. Perhaps I should have elucidated what happened in more detail considering your aversion to actual facts. His license was suspended for 5 years, he wasn’t disbarred from the Arkansas Bar Association. He later resigned and was never disbarred.
No, your point was that he committed perjury and was disbarred and as I pointed out above, he never got sanctioned for perjury and he was never disbarred.
Oh, I am. It’s you who constantly substitute facts with opinion, uses sloppy language while not understanding legalese.
If you are of the opinion that Clinton perjured himself and was disbarred, fine, but you are as always presenting your opinion as fact which isn’t fine because opinions aren’t facts and has never been. Learn the fucking difference and inject “I think” or “I’m of the opinion of” when it’s relevant.
Clown.
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Re: Re: Re:22
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-clinton-fined-and-disbarred-over-the-monica-lewinsky-scandal/
You’re making distinctions that just don’t matter, at all.
But yeah, it’s not like it’s NOT perjury just cuz you aren’t charged for it (very rare) and you absolutely can be disbarred for it.
Take the L.
Re: Re: Re:23
“Mostly true” isn’t the same as “True”, but somehow you think they are the same.
It’s always funny when you provide a link you didn’t read the contents of. Let me quote the relevant part:
While Clinton can no longer practice law in front of the highest court, it’s not accurate to say that he was disbarred from either the Supreme Court or from practicing law in Arkansas. Clinton’s license was suspended in Arkansas, but he was not disbarred, and while Clinton did face the possibility of being barred from arguing in front the U.S. Supreme Court, he resigned before the ruling was handed down.
Isn’t it amazing how the above sums up exactly what I was saying. Snope’s rating is based on the outcome that Clinton can’t practice law any longer even though he wasn’t disbarred.
Details matter, clown.
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Re: Re: Re:24
It’s a distinction without a difference. You’re nitpicking cuz you don’t want to admit you lost.
It’s mostly the same. Take the L, loser.
Re: Re: Re:25
No, there’s a distinction because of the consequences applied. Just because you want to use sloppy language doesn’t mean you are right. Sloppy language is used by people who either don’t care or who want to have the ability to weasel out of things they’ve said with excuses like “oh, I didn’t mean it that way”.
No, it’s not the same unless you think “mostly true” is the same as “true”, especially since you were adamant he was disbarred. Was your statement then “false”, “mostly false”, “mostly true” or “true”? Give us a rating!
Clown.
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Re: Re: Re:26
He was for all intents and purposes disbarred. He would’ve HAD TO APPLY to get it back.
It’s still perjury even if you’re not charged with perjury.
Sorry, that’s what it is. Even the hilariously liberal Snopes agrees.
Re: Re: Re:27
Then you should have lead with that, instead you went on a multi-post rant how he was definitely disbarred when he wasn’t. The above qualifications for disbarred shows that he wasn’t technically disbarred, but the outcome was the same. You think this is a nitpick, but being precise makes your argument stronger and less prone to being misinterpreted, and this is especially true when it comes to legal matters.
No, what you don’t understand is that not every instance of being untruthful in court is perjury. It’s not a binary choice between truth and lie which is why sometimes it’s considered contempt of court instead. Being untruthful is also not exactly the same as lying, because sometimes the truth is subjective and the court has to take that into consideration. Some people don’t consider a BJ to be sex for example, which would make Clinton’s statement “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky.” true for them. There are people who think humping someone’s leg is sex and they would definitely consider it to be false.
Then you should be able to quote the relevant part where Snopes agrees with you.
Re: Re: Re:19
Bratty matty: * spams the same brain-dead bullshit 3 times in a row *
Also bratty matty: “Spam filter wah wah!”
Re: Re: Re:9
You were saying?
“Fulton County DA Fani Willis case against Trump can continue”
Re: Re: Re:10
If we take a moment to reflect on the times Matty Bratty have been right, no time passes.
Re: Re: Re:6
The same (smelly) place he got his “facts”.
Re: Re: Re:5
Oh shit, what did Trump do? Say he was a law expert??
Re: Re: Re:5
You sound positively frantic while spouting nonsense, are you having a mental meltdown?
Re: Re: Re:5
So question.
If trump properties are worth as much as he claims, do you think he should pay taxes on that amount?
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Re: Re: Re:6
You have clearly never owned a house.
The assessed value of a property, in many states, is less than the actual value of the home.
Otherwise lots of grandma’s would find that they are unable to pay property taxes, because their neighborhood got popular, and would lose their home.
Re: Re: Re:7
I’ll take that as no snd that you think he should be able to defraud the American people on paying taxes
Re: Re: Re:5
Because made-up crimes is definitely a thing you get successful indictments with! These grand juries right?!
If you claim wildly different values for properties depending on who you’re making statements to, and you materially benefit from that, you’ve committed fraud. But I’m sure you’ve got some super-smart reason why you think that’s perfectly fine ethical business behavior.
Seems like every day these accusations look weaker and more pathetic, not to mention there’s literally nothing that actually shows a conflict of interest against Trump. But keep being easily distracted.
Nope. Dude always seemed sketchy.
Boxing up thousands of government documents and shipping them to your wildly insecure home is not simply “mishandling”.
Refusing to return them after multiple legal requests is not simply “mishandling”.
Having your lawyer claim they’d all been returned when they had not is not simply “mishandling”.
Trying to destroy video evidence of the documents being moved locations to conceal them from your own lawyers is not simply “mishandling”.
Stacking boxes of them in a fricking bathroom is not simply “mishandling”.
Except Biden did absolutely none of the things above. And you fail at multiplication.
You mean the complete fabrication than nobody has been able prove years later?
Worst. Gaslighting. Ever.
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Re: Re: Re:6
This just shows your ignorance. Ever hear the expresion “you can indict a ham sandwich”? So no, that’s completely meaningless.
….no, actually. Fraud requires damages, and here there was none. At least in the other 49 states, and this NY law, which is NUTS, has never been used in this manner either. Hotchul literally had to beg business people not to leave the state. A valuation is literally just someone’s opinion of how much it’s worth.
I think we have established you understand nothing about this case.
You obviously haven’t been paying attention. She perjured herself, materially. She WILL be thrown off the case. Getting disbarred looks pretty likely.
Except Biden did all the same things and much worse. Many more documents, and at like 4 different properties, and not from when he was a president, but when he was a sentor, he was never even allowed to have those documents outside a schiff..
Arguing with government lawyers is not much in terms of obstruction, but none of you cared when Hillary Used ffing bleachbit to destroy evidence
For like the 4th time your ignorance is not an argument.
How so? The The $20M+ payments is documented. Hunter’s emails are confirmed. That Hunter, Joe, and James passed around that money has been confirmed. What are you looking for, a signed contract, “I hearby accept these bribes?” There was NO other reason to pay Hunter that money.
I don’t know who you think you’re fooling. Go defend a holocaust denier.
Re: Re: Re:7
By giving different valuations to different parties, including the state there were damages. A low valuation for tax-purposes defrauded the state of income. A high valuation of collaterals to a bank for securing a loan gives a lower interest rate which defrauded the bank the income from the higher interest.
The really interesting thing with making false statements to banks, in many instances there’s no need for any damages to occur for it to be considered fraud.
Every time you say something like that we can take for granted that it is you who know nothing, because so far the times you have been right about a case is 0.
You really do live in an echo chamber, don’t you? If you bothered to venture outside you would know that the source for the bribery-allegation, Alexender Smirnov, has admitted it was all made up to hurt Joe Biden. And by confirmed, you actually mean making shit up.
Smirnov admitted in an interview after his arrest in mid-February that “officials associated with Russian intelligence were involved in passing a story” about Hunter Biden. Prosecutors said Smirnov’s contacts with Russian officials were recent and extensive, and said Smirnov had planned to meet with one official during an upcoming overseas trip.
Prosecutors said Smirnov, who holds dual U.S.-Israeli citizenship, falsely reported to the FBI in June 2020 that executives associated with Burisma paid millions of dollars to Hunter and Joe Biden in 2015 or 2016.
If you haven’t realized it yet, the whole thing with impeaching Biden over this is now a bit of an embarrassment for the Republicans which is why it has faded from the news-cycle.
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Re: Re: Re:8
That’s not how damages works.
This has no relation to the valuation from the tax assessor.
I’m sorry, I stopped reading there, you just have no idea what the fuuck you’re talking about.
Re: Re: Re:9
Shows how much you know about tax liabilities.
When someone undervalue assets and property to reduce their tax liability it’s called “asset misrepresentation”, go look it up, ie the government suffered economical damage because someone lied about the worth of their assets to have smaller tax debt.
Typical answer from Bratty Matty when he knows he’s out of his depth intellectually. I’ll just note you stopped reading ages ago which is one of the explanations why you are just a stupid clown.
You can of course prove me wrong by proving that someone’s tax liability has nothing to do with the valuation of their assets.
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Re: Re: Re:10
Yeah, no. Basically the only asset that’s taxed directly is real estate and that’s what tax assessors are for.
Seriously, that’s not how any of that works, you just sound like an idiot.
Re: Re: Re:11
When you say “Yeah, no” I hear “I know I’m wrong so I’m just gonna gaslight my way out of being forced to admit I’m wrong”.
I guess you don’t even know that one of the most common tax frauds is to undervalue property, and fraud here means defrauding the government of tax income.
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Re: Re: Re:12
NO? I mean no, it’s not, actually.
Again, the ONLY tax on property (as opposed to income) is state and local real estate taxes.
Those valuations are not determined by something the citizen submits That’s what a tax assessor does. THEY determine the value. If Trump thought they valued it wrong, they would have to fight them in court.
LIke just everything you’re saying is wrong.
JUst to put a cap on this, if you want to claim “one of the most common tax frauds is to undervalue property”, Go ahead, provide a citation. Then show me a citation showing that Trump would be taxed on a value HE submits. Cuz lol, no he isn’t.
Re: Re: Re:13
You’d be surprised how incomplete your statement is, you’ll get your surprise a bit later.
Oh? You should tell Trump that, because he is on the record saying (paraphrased) “real estate is valued by its owner, and that value can change immensely for tax and bank value purposes”. Is he wrong? And if he’s wrong, perhaps that’s why the court decided he defrauded the state.
What you are missing here is that a tax assessor bases the valuation on several factors, like the owners valuation, market value, submitted tax exemptions, how the property is used, income of property etc. If it was as cut and dry as you think it is, why are people being dinged by the IRS for tax fraud when the owners undervalue their property?
Also if you haven’t figured it out yet the IRS has been waiting for the case to finish so they can use the outcome as the basis for their investigation.
Thank you for confirming I’m right since you are always wrong.
I can see why you think I’m wrong but go back and read what I actually wrote and not what you think I wrote. Here, let me help you: A low valuation for tax-purposes defrauded the state of income, if you apply just a bit of reasoning after reading that you’ll understand why a citation is unnecessary.
I don’t have to show a citation, I’ll just give you the context and see your head explode. Then I’ll wait for the insults.
Trump and co undervalued property they sold, transferred or gifted to family members or other wholly owned subsidiaries/companies. Once again, remember what I said: A low valuation for tax-purposes defrauded the state of income.
You assumed I was talking about property tax and I intentionally refrained from pointing out your error because you are supposedly smarter than everyone here and I wanted to test that. You failed.
Clown.
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Re: Re: Re:14
Then you admit defeat.
….that’s not a crime. People “sell” cars for $1, also.
I know you’re very proud of yourself for some supposed “gotcha” but none of that is a crime.
Re: Re: Re:15
Not really, I said it because I knew you would respond with something like the above, it is kind of fun baiting you so I can show everyone how full of shit you are. Remember every time you have said you didn’t need to provide citations? That’s you admitting defeat per your own standard.
If you want to find out more, see for example: https://fastercapital.com/content/Understating-assets–A-Common-Tactic-in-Tax-Fraud.html#The-Role-of-Valuation-in-Asset-Misrepresentation
It is when you do it to dodge tax, for example, this is how IRS view “gifts”: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/gift-tax
The relevant part is this:
The gift tax is a tax on the transfer of property by one individual to another while receiving nothing, or less than full value, in return. The tax applies whether or not the donor intends the transfer to be a gift.
So let me once again repeat myself: A low valuation for tax-purposes defrauded the state of income
If you think I’m wrong, IRS has toll-free numbers you can call and ask if I’m wrong.
Clown.
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Re: Re: Re:16
The IRS has a lot of novel theories.
The fact is that valuations are opinions. This isn’t a crime. I know you want it to be, but it isn’t.
Re: Re: Re:17
That’s one way to admit you are wrong I guess.
Part of a valuation are opinions but they must be based on facts, but it’s interesting that you are intentionally avoiding the important bit: If you undervalue property or assets to avoid tax, it’s illegal.
Clown.
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Re: Re: Re:18
It’s not. No one was defrauded, particularly not the state.
This is just a made up crime. Almost certain to be thrown out. Hell the law itself may be tossed. (which is probably desirable anyway, as businesses are leaving the state over it)
Re: Re: Re:19
But they were. Ask any CPA.
But it isn’t. Ask any CPA.
Wishful thinking.
I thought you said it was a made up crime? Having problems keeping you gaslighting arguments straight, huh?
Oh, do you have a citation for that and that the specific reason is the tax law? Remember the rule you set, if you can’t provide a citation you loose the argument.
Re: Re: Re:19
Claims like this just demonstrate that you get your information from conservative news sites that don’t actually tell you the full story and you don’t bother to do basic research to find out how little you actually know on the topic.
The crime isn’t made up. The law has been used quite frequently for the type of activities Trump perpetrated. It hasn’t gotten thrown out despite multiple cases and successful prosecutions.
https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-felony-prosecutions-for-falsifying-business-records/
Re: Re: Re:7
That’s too good not to have a laugh at. Does Adam know about this?!
Neither do we! Every single one of your answers is “You know nothing, you’re all stupid, I know everything about everything, here’s my Fox News talking points, and then some weird insult. Every time, without fail.
Very, very weird…
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Re: Re: Re:8
I dunno man, you’re a fuucking idiot.
How quickly you “forget”
Re: Re: Re:7
You’re going to be sorely disappointed when nothing material happens to Willis or her prosecution of Trump. Just because you’re convinced of certain notions doesn’t mean the judge agrees with your conspiratorial and/or brain dead thinking.
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Re: Re: Re:8
And you’re going to be absolutely terrified when Big Daddy Trump is returned to office in November and it’s open season on your kind the following January! 😀
Re: Re: Re:7
By giving different valuations to different parties, including the state there were damages. A low valuation for tax-purposes defrauded the state of income. A high valuation of collaterals to a bank for securing a loan gives a lower interest rate which defrauded the bank the income from the higher interest.
The really interesting thing with making false statements to banks, in many instances there’s no need for any damages to occur for it to be considered fraud.
Every time you say something like that we can take for granted that it is you who know nothing, because so far the times you have been right about a case is 0.
You really do live in an echo chamber, don’t you? If you bothered to venture outside you would know that the source for the bribery-allegation, Alexender Smirnov, has admitted it was all made up:
Smirnov admitted in an interview after his arrest in mid-February that “officials associated with Russian intelligence were involved in passing a story” about Hunter Biden. Prosecutors said Smirnov’s contacts with Russian officials were recent and extensive, and said Smirnov had planned to meet with one official during an upcoming overseas trip.
Prosecutors said Smirnov, who holds dual U.S.-Israeli citizenship, falsely reported to the FBI in June 2020 that executives associated with Burisma paid millions of dollars to Hunter and Joe Biden in 2015 or 2016.
If you haven’t realized it yet, the whole thing with impeaching Biden over this is now a bit of an embarrassment for the Republicans which is why it has faded from the news-cycle.
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Re: Re: Re:8
I see you posted the same thing twice, but no, that’s not how any of that works.
That’s not how damages works.
This has no relation to the valuation from the tax assessor.
I’m sorry, I stopped reading there, you just have no idea what the fuuck you’re talking about.
Re: Re: Re:7
No, it doesn’t. Damages can be awarded if injury (financial or otherwise) occurred as a result of fraud, but injury doesn’t have to have been sustained for a finding of fraud to be made in a court. Dipshit. What were you saying about knowing the law better than Mike again? Because I don’t know the law as good as he does, but I’ve just proved I know it better than you.
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Re: Re: Re:8
Yes, it does
Those aren’t “damages”, I’m sorry, you’re confused. Like, badly.
Pretty sure he would laugh at you actually
Re: Re: Re:6
You forgot a couple: Tearing them up and flushing them down a john is not simply “mishandling”.
Waving them around in front of a journalist and “declaring them declassified” just to prove “I’m the President now, bitches!” is not simply “mishandling”.
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Re: Re: Re:7
There’s actually an argument that that would make them declassified. There was a SCOTUS case against it but it wasn’t that cut and dry and could be overturned.
Anyway, it’s super dumb that you think that matters or made it worse.
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Re: Re: Re:5
Thank you for the rationality (and passion for truth!) you bring to this site, Sir!!
Re: Re: Re:6
You must be joking
Re: Re: Re:5
The bank was defrauded. If they had Trump’s actual financials they would have charged him more money for his loan so they most definitely lost money due to Trump’s chicanery.
He also stole classified information that even if he magically declassifies with his mind doesn’t make them his property, it’s still the property of the US government not Trump’s and he cannot declare something his just because he was president.
He also attempted to subvert democracy on J6.
He also attempted to subvert democracy in GA. GA where the governor is republican and could remove Fani Willis if he wanted to. I guess Governor Kemp is a part of the deep state now. It’s so difficult to keep up what hallucinatory groups have which illusory roll calls in your world.
He also subverted democracy by using campaign funds to pay off a porn star so she wouldn’t reveal she had an affair with him right before the election.
He’s also been found civilly guilty of rape. He’s also been found guilty of defamation to the tune of over $90,000,000.
He’s also guilty of being the world’s worst dressed billionaire.
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Re: Re: Re:6
No, they weren’t They literally showed up and testified in court that they were not defrauded. The judge didn’t care (in fact, visibly made faces)
I just think it’s hilarious how little you understand about this.
Re: Re: Re:7
So… when a judge you disagree with rules it’s fraud, you insist it can’t possibly be fraud.
But when a judge agrees with you and Mike criticizes the decision (such as in the Murthy case) you go on and on and on and on about how dare he disagree with judges.
So… only you are allowed to disagree with judges?
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Re: Re: Re:8
He’s an elected judge who has acted outlandish and again, there were no damages. The NY law is the ONLY law in the entire country written like that, and even STILL has never been used when there were no damages.
It’s very obviously going to be overturned, but the judge tried to make the judgement outrageous precisely to stop that. (cuz you have to put up the money to appeal)
Re: Re: Re:9
I understand that you disagree with Judge Engoron (though most legal analyses I’ve seen suggest there’s very little chance his ruling will be overturned). But that was not the point of my comment.
It was to call out your very clear double standard. When judges rule in ways that you insist are wrong under the law, you feel free to insist the ruling is silly and wrong.
When Mike pointed out a ruling was silly and wrong, you attack his character for daring to question a judge.
I am not asking for your opinion of Judge Engoron’s (pretty thorough) ruling. I am highlighting your blatant double standard, and the ridiculousness with which you attack Mike for doing the very same thing you are doing.
Can you comprehend that simple concept? Or is it beyond your abilities?
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Re: Re: Re:10
I suppose it depends upon how ridiculous the Judge. ENgoron is pretty fffing ridiculous.
Re: Re: Re:11
So you admit that it’s possible that a “pretty fffing ridiculous” judge might make a mistake? Cool.
And would it be okay for Mike to call out mistakes made by a “pretty fffing ridiculous” judge, complete with links and citations as to why that judge is wrong?
Or do you only recognize “pretty fffing ridiculous” judges when they disagree with you?
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Re: Re: Re:12
Cuz he will tell the entire SCOTUS they’re wrong and it’s super dumb.
Re: Re: Re:13
Can you point to an example of Mike telling “the entire SCOTUS they’re wrong”? Or are you making things up again?
Also, there are times that the entire SCOTUS does get things wrong.
Re: Re: Re:13
We’re not talking about the Supreme Court here. You’re just speculating.
Re: Re: Re:7
That is not what they said. You’re distorting their actual testimony.
Re: Re: Re:5
Actually, it was his client we supported. He wouldn’t have gotten a look in if she’d chosen a different lawyer. Dipshit.
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Re: Re: Re:6
I mean, his client broke an NDA and actually lost, in court, so I don’t know why you would have supported her.
But no, Brian Stelter was saying he should run for president and shit. Don’t lie. You guys loved him.
Re: Re: Re:7
Did she lose? I lost track of that case.
Also, if you are unaware that a lot of people don’t like NDAs because they restrict free speech, I don’t know what to tell you.
Really, you seem to be conflating supporting a case and supporting a person.
Why would anything said by a single person (whom I’ve never heard of, by the way) prove that most Democrats loved him, let alone us specifically? One person doesn’t speak for an entire demographic.
Re: Re: Re:5
[citation needed]
Except that the banks were defrauded. You’re just lying or terribly misinformed here.
[citation needed]
No. I remember when the media loved talking about him, but that’s not the same thing.
No, Biden also only did it once, and he didn’t try to hide it or retain the documents once they were found. He was let off because of a lack of evidence of intent to take or keep those documents (as opposed to them being mixed in among other, personal documents) and his immediate and full cooperation.
The same thing also happened with Pence, who also wasn’t prosecuted. Senility had nothing to do with it.
It’s also not the only crime alleged with meat on it.
[citation needed]
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Re: Re: Re:4
I encourage you to read the book “three felonies a day” by Harvey A. Silverglate . Then look into the soviet judicial system, and most notably the quote “Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime”.
The premise being that there are so many laws, intentionally written vaguely, that the average white collar worker commits three felonies a day.
I’m surprised that they haven’t charged Trump with criminal copyright infringement, for sharing memes without permission of the copyright holder, where the value of those memes (in terms of revenue) is greater than $2,500
Re: Re: Re:5
So cops should shoot trump for being a dirty criminal.
Or do you believe that’s only for non white people?
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Re: Re: Re:6
Of course police should shoot POC whenever they can get away with it.
Re: Re: Re:5
So it’s absurdly easy to manufacture charges against a person so your side is so stupid it cannot get Biden charged even though the system is designed, apparently, to create all kinds of absurd charges at will. Hmmm, they weren’t able to charge Clinton under that easy to charge people with almost anything system. Your sides lawyers really suck.
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Re: Re: Re:6
It is, it really is.
…you…you understand he runs the DOJ, right?
Holy fuuck you’re dumb.
Re: Re: Re:7
Trump couldn’t run the DOJ as his personal fiefdom even with his handpicked man and now you think limpdicked Biden can?
The democrats must be some kind of Schrödinger’s supervillains, because according to you they are stupid as fuck in everything they do while simultaneously being able to run the country like evil supergeniuses.
The dichotomy between the views your present isn’t reconcilable. Unless you are clown.
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Re: Re: Re:8
It’s almost like the deep state is a thing. Or, if you like, basically every career bureaucrat (90%+) is a democrat. Same thing really.
Also there’s the small matter that Barr had integrity and Garland very obviously does not. He never even appointed a special prosecutor for hunter (hah, no, he still hasn’t, tho he pretended he did).
This really isn’t complicated, I’m amazed that you’re attempting to pretend it is.
Re: Re: Re:9
…hallucinated nobody mentally competent, ever.
Re: Re: Re:3
So you believe that trump should be able to rape and murder your kids and not be allowed to be held liable so long as he is a candidate for president?
Re: Re: Re:4
Music to a potential murderer’s ears. All they have to do is register as a candidate for office, then go kill someone, and any attempt to hold them accountable for that will be ELECTION INTERFERENCE!!!
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Re: Re: Re:5
I think it would be helpful if charged with a crime that
Yeah, it’s election interference, nakedly so. And instead, it’s going to get him elected.
Re: Re: Re:6
Just because you can’t comprehend something doesn’t mean it’s “made up”..”
Re: Re: Re:6
And Trump said he was going to “lock her up” about Clinton. And there was an investigation. And no evidence was found to support charges by his own administration. Him claiming things are political is just projection. He literally tries to get his political opponents, except he’s actually committed crimes for which there is evidence.
“And the final factor is that such lengthy processes are standard for these types of crimes. An analysis from Syracuse University this year showed that white-collar cases take 3.6 times as long between criminal referrals and prosecution filings — an average of 452 days — as the average for all federal prosecutions. And that doesn’t even include investigative steps that precede the referrals, which are difficult to quantify given they’re often conducted secretly.”
“The time between the National Archives referring its case to the Justice Department and Trump’s classified-documents indictment? 484 days. Between the House Jan. 6 committee’s criminal referral and Trump’s Jan. 6 indictment? 225 days. Between a judge saying in March 2022 that Trump “more likely than not” broke the law in that case and that indictment? 491 days. (The last was not technically a criminal referral, but it was the first big sign of criminal trouble ahead for Trump.)”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/31/trump-grouses-that-his-indictments-took-years-heres-why-that-is/
Re: Re: Re:6
Well, with 91 made up charges it should be absurdly easy for SCOTUS to save Cheetolini. Or is the conservative Supreme Court that overturned Roe a part of the deep state now?
Re: Re: Re:2
Nixon technically got indicted for Watergate.
But he was also forgiven by Jimmy Carter, which makes it trickier…
Re: Re: Re:3
Nicon was pardoned by Gerald Ford.
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Re: Re: Re:3
Nixon was not indicted, no.
It also should be noted that Nixon’s crimes were far less than Biden’s.
Re: Re: Re:4
Can you list the USC Biden so wantonly violated?
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Re: Re: Re:5
Same one as Menendez.
Re: Re: Re:6
What bribes did Biden accept, and where is your evidence? (Note: Joe Biden and Hunter Biden are not the same person; you have to be able to tie it to Joe Biden specifically.)
Re: Re: Re:4
FTFY. YW.
Re: Re: Re:2
The only reason Presidents 1-44 have zero indictments is because Ford pardoned Nixon.
Re: Re: Re:
What corruption?
What lies?
Be specific.
Re: Re: Re:
I see we can add “Topical” and “topics of discussion” to the list of concepts you don’t understand.
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The corruption that no republican alive can bring to court.
I’m sure they will finally produce all that evidence to send Obama and Hillary to jail as well.
Re: Re:
That would require Mattie to pull his head out of his ass, and we both know that ain’t happening. lol
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No, because that would require them to stop thinking about the genitals of complete strangers(including children) for at least five minutes, and that seems to be completely beyond their capabilities.
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So I’m sure you are against the party of “grab em by the pussy” that has member epstein friends in it?
Then of course the person trying to investigate Biden the most is best known for standing by as his wrestlers were molested.
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Obviously not, since the regime you described exists exclusively within the deranged hallucinations of the mentally ill, not in the real world where the rest of us live.
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This path won’t lead to any happiness in your life, just angry despair. Enjoy!
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Can you show me on the doll where you claim the President touched you?
More whining in court by gop .. must be an election year.
You’d think ‘All the claims being made against us are at best misrepresentations of fact if not outright lies’ would have been brought up way sooner than this, either they only recently started paying attention to this case of the lawyers involved in it are really bad at their job.
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At least some of them were. Did you not see the references?
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Fair enough, only so much you can do I suppose when the other side is just making shit up and the judge involved accepts anything they say as fact regardless of it’s disconnection from observable reality.
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Like so many techno-panics in the past, social media seems new and strange, and some judges just cannot get past the ‘something must be wrong here’ and rule on law and facts.
It is nice to see that the judiciary has decided to embrace the whole alternative facts view of reality.
It doesn’t matter that it shows, it matters more what we claim it shows without anything to support our position but us saying it louder & more often.
I live in a country where the highest court in the land made a ruling saying I cannot expect the same treatment as other citizens if it offends alleged religious beliefs, based on lies.
No gay person asked her to make a website for them.
The alleged letter was fake, and they admitted as much.
She has a “business” because the group funding the case trying to make the lives of gays harder to force the nation to protect only alleged christians special rights created it for her.
I can be denied housing, accommodation, transport, shopping, dining, and 1000 other simple things because 1 group claims it infringes on their rights to be bigots… but if I turn the tables I have committed a crime.
The fact that the courts are entertaining these lies that made it all of the way to SCOTUS really calls into question if the system has been corrupted to a point where we can no longer expect the truth to win.
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Re:
I would also like to note that Roe v. Wade was predicated on a rape victim, who admitted subsequently that she was never raped. However the supreme court interprets laws, and are not affected by such lies, because the supreme court is not a “finder of fact”, that is left up to the jury or the district court judge.
I suppose that if you fabricate claims in the district court, then you aren’t supposed to have standing to even bring a suit, because the executive branch under article 1 are supposed to be responsible to “faithfully execute” the law”, and and the courts are not roaming tribunals in search of problems to fix.
Re: Re:
Roe v. Wade, the victim who often changed her story to get money from which ever group was paying to have a nice photo-op. The fact she is a flawed person should have little bearing on the idea that a woman should decides what happens with her body rather than a bunch of men passing laws telling her she has no say in what happens with her body.
Please to explain how you are okay with forcing someone to have a child resultant from being raped against their will, but feel that requiring a vaccination is much to far.
The split picture of 2 women both holding My Body My Choice signs at SCOTUS, one from the Roe v. Wade era, the other from the covid era.
If SCOTUS isn’t the finder of fact why do they ask questions?
They should just be able to read all of the filings and sort it out rather than need explanations of what people were thinking or feeling about various things.
Many of these cases are contrived & magically get the rocket docket to SCOTUS to enshrine the rights of a few at the expense of others who don’t believe the same… but magically its almost always the people who have picked 1 specific skyfreind who need the protection & its never extended to any other who picked other skyfreinds.
But then the judiciary has been corrupted by monied interests who want idealouges rather than jurists. See also: Judge Cannon isn’t qualified for the position she holds. That 1 Judge in Texas that MAGICALLY gets all of the cases conservatives bring & he sides with them each & every time… yeah nothing funny going on there.
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Re: Re: Re:
Because I don’t support murdering unborn children or forcing people to be vaccinated against their will.
Re: Re: Re:2
So you’re a delusional, murderous piece of shit, got it.
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Texas is a well known judge shopping state since so many of its judges are either morons or ideologues or both. That’s why Elon filed his suit in Texas and not his or the foundation’s state of residence or business. It’s why so many patent cases are filed in Texas, because the law firms know how easy it is to manipulate most Texan judges to get the outcomes they want.
So the judicial system isn’t corruptly assigning these cases to these mostly corrupt judges, it’s the law firms filing their cases in areas well known for having a large amount of corrupt, right wing judges.
Re: Re: Re:
FTFY. YW.
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Re:
Shut up. You’re lucky you’re not being sent to a death camp. No one likes your kind!!
Re: Re:
But mom thinks I’m cute!!
You don’t have to like me fuckface, but you have to deal with me having the same rights you have.
Well, but unlike you, I can live within 500 ft of a school.
Re: Re: Re:
My mom thinks you’re cute too but she refuses to be seen in public with me.
Re: Re:
You’re a conservative because you know no conscious woman would consent to sex with you.
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Weird way to spell ‘incel’.
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Courts by their design have to entertain arguments brought forth by people. Judges don’t get to choose which cases they try and don’t. The current SCOTUS is corrupt in nature thanks to hacks like Alito and Thomas but courts hearing these cases is not a bad sign. If somebody files a suit, the court has to hear it no matter how deficient the suit is.
Democracy, by it’s very nature, requires eternal vigilance to protect it. Thinking our institutions cannot function is what agents of chaos want from us, for us to give up because we conclude change as impossible. But when I was a kid in the 70’s and 80’s there was zero times I thought there would be gay marriage in America and yet there is. When I was a teen it was considered normal to make gay jokes because almost everybody considered it fine to mock gay people. That’s no longer the case although there’s still plenty of bigots making the same lame, decades old gay jokes that say way more about them than us.
Sadly, democracy and civil rights is a two steps forward, one step backwards type of dance. We make strides. We start to erode the isolation and marginalization of groups, which makes us empowered. Our now empowered selves pisses off assholes with sticks up their asses. They then take actions to disenfranchise us to make themselves feel superior. It’s annoying but it’s also reality. We’re always going to have fight to defend our rights and democracy because there’s always going to be a group of lazy, unclever assholes who know a diverse society makes it harder for their stupid selves to thrive like they used to be able to when they were given a mountain of privilege. Now, having only 4/5ths of the mountain of privilege, they lash out at diversity in hopes of destroying it and creating a fascistic government. Those assholes will always exist. Even as they die off from old age, new ones will be born to replace them. It sucks but this battle has been going on ever since somebody realized they could pretend to hear things nobody else was hearing and in doing so they could slack off, get special treatment and make self serving edicts about reality.
This endless battle sucks but so does death, we can’t do much about either other than having a positive attitude that helps make life more enjoyable. I hope you have a supporting intentional family, it’ll make those horrible moments much better.
Never mind the platforms, every time i jear the goverment suggest something, i have to do it, even if i was already doing it. This has been going on since before the internet. Probably since the US was invented, but i’m not that old. Do i have standing to sue? Haaaalp!
Well, this would be consistent with what SCOTUS did with that Christofascist football coach case. They don’t seem to be concerned with reality.
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You need to take your meds
The country has never been more secular, and the days of the “scopes trial” are long gone, we even teach evolution in schools.
Re: Re:
And we just had Roe overturned and a clump of cells declared a child by the Alabama Supreme Court while people are calling for the eradication of the transgender community. And three out of four Americans still consider themselves Christian.
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Mike Masnick Malding Again
The executive branch doesn’t have first amendment rights. Therefore entire premise of the DOJ’s argument is flawed.
Re:
Sounds good. I am in favor of banning all speech by republicans in office.
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Re: Re:
I am in favor of sending all Democrats to re-education camps.
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BTW: the first Democrat who should’ve been taken care of was FDR.
What a class traitor!!
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How is it flawed? The government has never had first amendment rights, regardless of what branch you want to mention. But for the government to function it must have the ability to speak, which is why the equitable principle is used as a guidance to avoid a larger harm to the public if the government isn’t allowed to speak. It’s the last part here you ignore because it allows you to make a disingenuous argument.
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Re: Re:
The government was prohibited from speaking, as a means of conduct, and that conduct was violating the first amendment rights of citizens, by using tech companies as their agents.
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…hallucinated nobody mentally competent, ever.
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If that was true the right wing griftosphere would have funded a small army of lawyers to bring cases. But there are no cases because there is no case to bring except up in your mind.
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Speech ≠ conduct. There is no blanket prohibition on the government being allowed to speak, either.
There also still isn’t evidence that the government is using tech companies as agents to suppress speech.
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The First Amendment has been interpreted by the Court as applying to the entire federal government even though it is only expressly applicable to Congress.
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Bwahahahaha, this is sad
Yeah, well, there’s all those very ominous emails. And the slack chats. And the fact that whatever company resits whatever federal government is telling them to censor then there’s a meeting, and they suddenly comply. It’s almost like an unrecorded meeting is a good time to make threats, veiled or otherwise.
Oh, and there’s the fact that the Bantum books case, there was NEVER any overt threats. Coercion can and should be assumed.
This isn’t a criminal case. No one’s going to jail, it’s just about what’s permissible. I don’t what the federal government telling companies what speech to ban. Not ever, certainly not US citizens, and probably not foreigners either since it does little good and is likely to become an exccuse.
EVERYONE ELSE SEEMS TO THINK THERE IS, INCLUDING SEVERAL JUDGES.
Sure man, only the justices/judges/actual lawyers who agree with you know what they’re doing. Which seem to be a pretty tiny %, in fact.
Go ahead, lie about when Amazon heard about Buzzfeed vs when they banned the book (3 days earlier) again.
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Cool. Give me a single example, just one, of what speech the government in this case told social media to ban that was then banned.
If the record is so clear, surely you can point to the evidence in this case of (1) the government saying to ban certain speech and (2) that speech being banned.
The docket is public. Point me to the evidence.
Or admit you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and base your nonsense off of some partisan news source you read that one time that has no fucking clue either.
We all know which it is.
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Re: Re:
Yeah, I did, and then you wanted me to dig up the pdf, and I really don’t get what game you’re playing. If you have a point you might as well explain it, cuz it seems pretty fuucking dumb.
You also asked for a name at one point. Well, Jay Bhattacharya is a plaintive on this case. CDC absolutely, without question, requested that he be shadow-banned, and he was.
Again, I have no idea what the FUUCK you are talking about.For instance CDC told them (FB and Twitter) to suppress “true but misleading” info about vaccines. That without QUESTION happened. Yes, it’s part of this case.
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying about YOU. Your rebuttals here aren’t even making any sense. Both those things are clearly part of this case.
Why did you lie about the timeline to suggest that Amazon banned that book because of Buzfeed, when they had banned it 3 days prior?
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They didn’t ban it 3 days prior, clown. You think they did because you can’t read worth shit.
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Re: Re: Re:2
They literally did. The email MM pointed to, they had shadowbanned the book 3 days prior. The same day they met with the WH. MM either didn’t pay attention to the dates, or I think more likely, lied on purpose.
Re: Re: Re:
Okay so you claim twice in here that the CDC demanded Twitter make moderation decisions. One to “shadow ban” a user (and, dude, the word is “plaintiff” not “plaintive”) and another that it suppress true but misleading info.
Surely you can point to where in the docket the evidence is for both of those claims.
Because I’ve gone through much of the docket and have not seen evidence of either claim. So I’m hoping you can help me find it. If there is such evidence of the CDC doing either of those things, I’ll readily admit that I was wrong. So here’s your chance Matt.
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Re: Re: Re:2
Auto-correct is a thing, you petty ‘tard.
Well just about every other article I read on the subject, many written by actual lawyers, says it does.
No I’m not pouring through pdfs for you, unlike you, pretending to be a legal expert is not my day job. But I find it really funny that you think “I can’t find it” is an argument. Apparently everyone else can. This is pathetic.
If I believed that, I might actually play paralegal for you. But I’ve shown you in black and white where you’re wrong before, just have you pretend you can’t figure what the definition of “is” is.
Why did you lie about the dates of Amazon shadowbanning that book vs when they heard about some supposed upcoming Buzzfeed article? They had already banned the book, 3 days earlier. If you simply misread or didn’t notice the date, surely you’d be willing to admit you were wrong? Issue a retraction?
Since this is like 5th or 6th time you’ve ignored the question, I didn’t think so.
Re: Re: Re:3
Again, Matty, all I’m asking for a single citation. I’ve gone through the docket. I don’t see it anywhere. But, fine, if you have a citation to one of those “every other article” you’ve read about the case “written by actual lawyers” that presents the actual evidence of the CDC doing what you claim, I’ll accept that.
Can you do it?
I doubt it.
But again, my offer stands. Prove me wrong on this.
I ignored this because it’s not what we’re talking about and because I already responded to it when it first came up.
There’s no need to rip your idiocy to shreds yet again. I recognize that you have a near total inability to comprehend how the world works, and that includes linear time. You are the one who got this wrong.
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Re: Re: Re:4
Because your site is from 2005 (and now it’s editing variations of your name, suspicious) you get the same comment twice:
Weasel words, MM. You’re just asking me to go pdf hunting via a different method.
But y’know what, this is the same article I linked too before (Jacob Sullum is not a lawyer. Other authors at Reason such as Volokh are, but they make more arguments, link to the docs less)
https://reason.com/2023/09/11/the-5th-circuit-agrees-that-federal-officials-unconstitutionally-coerced-or-encouraged-online-censorship/
And near the end of that article is this link, which seems to match your request exactly:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.189520/gov.uscourts.lawd.189520.293.0_1.pdf#page=9
(there are plenty of others in the same document and linked to)
I would say I”m looking forward to my duly owed apology, but I have zero faith in you and am quite sure you will invent a bullshit excuse on why that doesn’t count in some way.
No you didn’t. Or if you did, it was long after I had stopped paying attention whichever post. You’re free to link to whatever “response” you think you made here, of course.
The question remains: Why did you lie about the dates?
Re: Re: Re:5
Lol. It does not. See, Matthew, this is why I was asking you for specifics, because it’s the specifics that matter.
The PDF you point to is the district court ruling by Judge Doughty, the same one that was mostly overturned by the 5th Circuit because they realized how off the farm Doughty was.
But, even if we accept Doughty’s findings as accurate, it STILL DOES NOT GIVE A SINGLE EXAMPLE of what I asked for. What it does show is (1) Facebook sometimes sending some information to the CDC asking them if it was accurate. Not the CDC demanding “shadow banning” or the removal of “true but misleading” info and (2) the CDC occasionally flagging info for Facebook to review under its own policies, and not suggesting that anything had to be removed, just asking how it fits with Facebook’s policies.
Again, this is why I ask, and this is why I want to be specific. Facebook should always been allowed to ask an expert agency “is this info accurate?” and then decide what to do about it. And the CDC should be able to flag content to Facebook and say “does this violate your policies.”
At no point, however, even in the no longer relevant Doughty ruling, does it show any evidence of either of the things you claimed.
Indeed, it shows the opposite, as it notes that the CDC employee in question explicitly expressed concern about Facebook being too aggressive in pulling content down because “if content were censored and removed from social-media platforms, government communicators would not know what the citizen’s “true concerns” were.”
That’s directly from the CDC witness.
So, Matthew, I have to ask again, where is the evidence of (1) the CDC telling sites to shadowban someone and (2) telling them to remove truthful but misleading info.
I eagerly await your answer.
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Re: Re: Re:6
So you’re just a disengenuous fuuck, then. Cuz unless you’re trying to pretend that the email quoted is made up, it is exactly what you asked for.
The post was removed. Per request. Do you somehow think the judge is entering a false record? GO THE FUUCK HOME YOU’RE DRUNK.
This is basically exactly what I thought would happen. Exactly what you asked for has been provided. You refuse to admit defeat because of absolute bullshit you made up, but you have been defeated. I hereby claim my prize.
Now: Why did you lie about the timing of Amazon, Buzzefeed, and when they banned that book? Cuz you did lie about it.
https://twitter.com/AsadYR/status/1730198836549734759/video/1
Re: Re: Re:7
Again, the document shows NO EXAMPLES of CDC asking for someone to be shadowbanned or demanding that truthful, but misleading info be taken down.
You can repeat your lie all you want. It does not change reality.
Which post? WHICH FUCKING POST MATTHEW? And BASED ON WHICH EMAIL?
I’ve read the document. I don’t see anything that has the CDC saying to shadowban or demanding truthful but misleading info be removed.
And, yes, the judge entered multiple false things in the record AS THIS POST DETAILS. He presented Rob Flaherty’s email as if it was about content removals when it had nothing to do with that. Separately, as I’ve pointed out in the past, he INSERTED WORDS IN A QUOTE that totally changed the meaning.
Personally, I think it’s an impeachable offense, in part because it leads total fuckups like you to believe THINGS THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. You’re such a gullible shitstain.
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Re: Re: Re:8
I said the federal gov, fuuckhead, the CDC was just one example. Tbc, the CDC did it to, but I already found you one such case, I’m not gonna find every such.
You already lost and want to deny evidence, are you trying to move the goal posts too?
Your denial amounts to that the fingerprints don’t count cuz they’re for some reason the wrong fingerprints. That basically doesn’t happen. The email quoted is NOT a simple mischaracterization. It was a direct request to remove which was honored.
If the judge were wholesale manufacturing evidence someone else, including the appellate court, and the probably several dozen to a hundred or so law clerks which have no looked at this would have noticed.
Your claim is laughable. Utter junk. Not every piece of evidence is online, not even in 2023-4.
That’s your original (assine) challenge. The CDC absolutely requested content be taken down, but I don’t have to find an example to attached to this case, you didn’t ask me too, I don’t hafta and I’m not gonna.
Your request has been met. You lost. ADMIT IT.
Now, for I think the 7th or 8thy time: Why did you lie about the timing of Amazon, Buzzefeed, and when they banned that book? Cuz you did lie about it.
You mean like most of your readers, that believe that obvious lie (among many) that you told?
https://twitter.com/AsadYR/status/1730198836549734759/video/1
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Re: Re: Re:9
I find it hilarious that I have to modify your OWN swears to get messages past your ‘tard spam filter. Your site is pathetic.
Re: Re: Re:9
No. You said “federal gov’t” in the first comment. I asked you for examples in the reply. You responded that the CDC absolutely told them to remove “true but misleading” content, so I asked you for evidence of THAT claim, which you insisted were a part of this case.
You then presented Judge Doughty’s ruling WHICH DOES NOT SAY THAT THE CDC DID THAT.
That’s why I ask for specifics, Matthew. Because I know you don’t know the first thing about how any of this works, and you believe the utter nonsense some nonsense news sources feed you. And you can NEVER EVER back up your claims.
The CDC did no such thing.
I have no proved you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
And all the while, I keep getting you to come back here and dance like a little monkey for the entertainment of everyone here.
It’s absolutely hilarious how easy you are to make dance like a puppet while showing off how ignorant you are at every step.
It’s hilarious. Everyone here knows you’re full of shit. You are not convincing everyone because the actual evidence shows over and over and over again you have no clue how any of this works, that you’re gullible as fuck, and that you fall for any fantasy pushed from the likes of Jim Jordan or Gateway Pundit or whoever else.
So what are you doing here? It’s not convincing anyone, but it’s entertainment for everyone here to see you flail and flail and flail, little monkey.
I don’t even know which email you’re talking about. I asked you for evidence to back up your claims about the CDC. You pointed to that PDF which does not support your claims.
At least admit you have no fucking clue? Or are you just going to keep dancing monkey?
It has been pointed out by at least two briefs. Not sure what else you expect to happen, though thanks for confirming you don’t read the briefs.
Lol. Monkey dance!
You absolutely made a direct claim about the CDC. I asked you above to back it up. You are still claiming it happened despite your own inability to present evidence that backs it up.
You’re a loser, Matthew. And every single person who reads this knows that Matthew Bennett is a loser.
I didn’t lie Matthew. I presented the actual evidence and why it was misrepresented by Jim Jordan. I get that you now have to lie about it because your ego can’t take how wrong you are.
But god damn this is funny, Matthew.
Keep dancing, little monkey. Keep dancing.
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Re: Re: Re:10
You asked me to find an example of the federal government doing so.
And now you’re trying to move the goalposts, after a goal has been scored.
You made a demand and I met it.
You are a very poor loser. Go fuuck yourself, Maasknick. (your spam filter is fuucking hilarious)
Yes, you did. You cited an email dated on the 12th, talking about banning the book on the 9th (same day they met with the WH), that ALSO mentioned learning of a Buzzfeed article, presumably recently, *and you used that to claim that they banned to book because of Buzzfeed, when they had pretty clearly banned the book before learning of that).
You lied about it. Why did you lie?
Of course, you’re too much of a backtracking piece shitte to expect a straight answer. Truly you are slime.
Re: Re: Re:11
I did. And you replied that the CDC did. I asked for evidence to back up that, and what you provided did not support that.
Now you’re arguing about something else? WHICH EMAIL are you talking about Matthew?
OMG, are you still going on about that? You READ IT WRONG MATTHEW.
No, the email on the 12th was about the Buzzfeed article, and they didn’t remove any books until the Buzzfeed story progressed. On the 9th, they simply set their policy saying they WOULD NOT PROMOTE anti-vax books. But it was after the Buzzfeed request that they talked about changing the visibility of anti-vax books. Dangerous anti-vax books were still available and easily findable until the media started asking questions. The White House had no impact on that.
Learn to fucking read.
Honestly, Matthew, I’ve never come across anyone who is so bad at reading comprehension.
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Re: Re: Re:12
…that’s not how this works. You seem to be trying to manufacture an excuse to to move goalposts, but you don’t get to do that.
YOu asked for an example of fed gov of demand of censorship. In the meantime, I told you CDC demanded that, and that happened, but I provided fed gov of demand of censorship. YOU ARE DONE. You don’t get to ask for a do-over.
No no, that’s an actual lie.. They “removed” (really it was a shadowban, but it has the same practical effect) On the 9th.
Why are you lying about the timeline?!? Or, alternatively, can you just not fuucking read?
Just admit defeat. Admit defeat and I’ll stop tormenting you with the truth.
Re: Re: Re:13
Matthew this is embarrassing. You really ought to stop.
Except it didn’t. The document YOU shared as proof literally has the CDC person expressing their concern about social media censorship and saying they don’t want that because it means not being able to hear what people are talking about.
The only thing they did was answer questions from Facebook about whether or not certain claims were accurate. The filings show ZERO support for the idea that the CDC EVER asked them to censor anything.
You said the CDC did that, but the evidence does not support that.
I am not moving the goalposts. I am just asking you to ACTUALLY SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS, which you cannot do.
That’s false. They claimed that they put anti-vax books on the “do not promote” list on the 9th. They did not “shadowban” anything. After Buzzfeed reached out to them, THEN they had a conversation about how to “limit visibility.”
You’re either lying or too fucking stupid to know what you are reading.
I’ll yelp you out: what the email (and internal one between Amazon employees only) says in response to a Buzzfeed request:
So, again, what they’re saying is that on 3/9 the only change that was made was NOT to “shadowban” or “ban” books, only to have one category of books (anti-vax, not even covid conspiracies) be placed on the “do not promote” list, which is not shadowbanning at all. It’s just that some books get recommended and some books don’t. Anyone searching for them still would have found them.
Furthermore, that email reveals that they did nothing about 8 out of the 9 books, and the only policy change on 3/9 was about keeping anti-vax books off the promote list.
As the article notes, they’re having another meeting on 3/19 to deal with the Buzzfeed requests, which is where they talked about COVID conspiracies, which you FALSELY say they already “censored” due to White House involvement.
I get it, you can’t read, because you WON’T LET YOUR BRAIN learn how fucking stupid you are.
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Re: Re: Re:14
I love this.
Same.
Except you did, captured in black and white. And if you want undermine that, that undermines, quite simply, EVERYTHING, your disingenuous ass has ever claimed.
Incorrect. They put the book on question on shadowban on the 9th. You seem to be hanging your hat on “Do not promote”. “Do not promote” is exactly the same as a shadowban.
If you do not recognize that, you should stop talking about tech. If you do understand that, you are a liar, on the record.
Choose one
None of this, of course, addresses how I met exactly your demands, and you reneged like coarwardly shiite.
Re: Re: Re:15
Matt, it’s time for you to get a grip on reality.
No, the PDF you shared AT NO POINT shows the CDC asking anyone to ban anyone or to remove any information. It VERY CLEARLY states that Facebook asked the CDC to review info at times, and that the CDC sometimes sent back some posts that it asked FB whether or not they violated FB’s policies.
At the same time the CDC official DIRECTLY DECLARED that she did not want FB to censor content.
I mean, it’s RIGHT FUCKING THERE. Why can you not admit reality.
See? This is again where you demonstrate your ignorance. No, “do not promote” is not the same as “shadowban.” Shadowban would be not allowing people to find the book. The “do not promote” list is just whether or not the book shows up in the promoted boxes up top when you do a search. Very few books get promoted in the first place. Putting a book in “do not promote” just means that it never can get into those promotional boxes.
It is not, at all, the equivalent of a shadowban. The problem, Matthew, is that you don’t know what you’re talking about. And refuse to admit when I prove you wrong over and over and over and over again.
No. You did not “meet my demands.” This is why I asked for specifics. You DID NOT PROVIDE SPECIFICS that met my request. You provided something that DEBUNKED YOUR CLAIMS, but you’re TOO FUCKING STUPID to understand it.
So, instead, you dance like the pathetic monkey you are. Do you think you’re making someone at Gateway Pundit think you’re smart.
Everyone here knows you’re an ignorant fool with serious issues.
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Re: Re: Re:16
But it does show the fed gov (WH) asking content to be banned, which it then was. Which is the evidence you asked for.
This is pathetic. You lost. Admit it.
Now: Why did lie about the timing of when Amazon banned that book vs when they learned of Buzzfeed? Apparently you’re STILL lying about it. But they banned it 3 days before that email, you lying, reneging turd.
Re: Re: Re:17
An inability to communicate in a concise and coherent way may indicate a decline in cognitive ability.
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Re: Re: Re:18
Are you talking about Mike, or Biden?
Re: Re: Re:19
Not understanding how a forum-thread is organized may indicate a decline in cognitive ability.
Re: Re: Re:17
WHERE? Where does it show the WH demanding content be banned?
This is the opposite of true, Matthew. I asked you for a citation and the one you gave DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU PRETEND IT SAYS.
This is why everyone makes fun of you.
I didn’t. Again, already asked and answered. YOU MISREAD THE DOCUMENT and don’t understand how things work.
I can’t believe you’re going to continue to get owned this way.
THEY DID NOT BAN ANYTHING on the 9th. The fact that you are too stupid to understand what happened is hilarious to everyone watching you flail around here, but get a fucking grip on reality Matthew.
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Re: Re: Re:18
I linked directly to it, shitass.
Yeah, they did, that was the “policy change”, ya dumb fuuck.
EVERYONE ELSE UNDERSTANDS THAT.
I can’t believe you made being this stupid your job.
Re: Re: Re:19
You linked directly to internal emails in the White House (from Holmes to Flaherty). You know what’s not in there? Any evidence that (1) it was then forwarded to Twitter or (2) that Twitter acted on it.
Again, this is why specifics matter and why I keep asking you for the specifics, because when idiots like you take them out of context, stupidity results. When people like me put them back into context, we realize how much less is actually there.
Do not promote is not a ban. I’m not sure how you can be this stupid.
Your problem is you’re too stupid to understand how stupid you are. Meanwhile. I am actually good at my job, which is why I’m successful and you’re a nobody.
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Re: Re: Re:20
It literally says both things. Learn to read, I guess.
It’s a shadowban. It doesn’t mean like, not run ads, or post “Amazon recommends”, it means that it will not show up any searches on the topic, such as “vaccines”. Exactly as the WH requested
THAT IS A SHADOWBAN. It means that you won’t find that book unless you already know it’s name, in advance, so it’s almost as good as outright refusing to sell it.
And they did 3 days prior to learning of the buzzfeed article, at WH request, immediately after meeting with them, you stoopid shiit.
Re: Re: Re:21
It did show up if you searched for it.
Re: Re: Re:21
It does not.
You first.
Except that that’s not what it was or what was requested. It did, in fact, show up in a search. That’s not a ban.
Re: Re: Re:19
Linking to the entire document without even giving what page to look at is unhelpful, and Mike isn’t obligated to do your research for you.
Given that literally no one else is agreeing with you on this specific point, and plenty are disagreeing with you, I’m going to say that the only one who “understands” that is you.
Also, a shadowban—as you use the term—is not a ban. The only sort of shadowban that could be a ban is where the person is allowed to post but literally no one (outside the ones running that platform) but that person can see it at all via the platform, period, so even a search specifically for it won’t show it.
Re: Re: Re:17
No, it doesn’t show the WH asking for content to be banned, either. It only shows Facebook asking the CDC whether some content was accurate; the CDC said it wasn’t, but didn’t tell Facebook what to do with that information; then Facebook blocked it or whatever. Nowhere in that conversation was anyone demanding Facebook to ban anyone or anything.
He didn’t.
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Re: Re: Re:16
I’m going to bring this up every time you make some “challenge” that I know you have no intent of honoring, you fuucking con man.
Re: Re: Re:5
He wasn’t objecting to the name you use at all. You made the claim, you prove it. That includes citations.
It does not. See, the thing is that you aren’t being specific about how it supports your assertion. That link also doesn’t appear to contain anything that fits the specific assertion you’re making. Facebook asking the government “Is this info accurate?” is not a demand from the government to do anything.
Also, that ruling isn’t up-to-date, anyways. It was partially overruled by the 5th Circuit.
That’s not Mike’s problem.
He didn’t. You’re misrepresenting the facts and what he said.
Re: Re: Re:
Key word here being ‘requested’. Not ‘demanded’, ‘requested’. How do you like them apples?
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Weasel words, MM. You’re just asking me to go pdf hunting via a different method.
But y’know what, this is the same article I linked too before (Jacob Sullum is not a lawyer. Other authors at Reason such as Volokh are, but they make more arguments, link to the docs less)
https://reason.com/2023/09/11/the-5th-circuit-agrees-that-federal-officials-unconstitutionally-coerced-or-encouraged-online-censorship/
And near the end of that article is this link, which seems to match your request exactly:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.189520/gov.uscourts.lawd.189520.293.0_1.pdf#page=9
(there are plenty of others in the same document and linked to)
I would say I”m looking forward to my duly owed apology, but I have zero faith in you and am quite sure you will invent a bullshit excuse on why that doesn’t count in some way.
No you didn’t. Or if you did, it was long after I had stopped paying attention whichever post. You’re free to link to whatever “response” you think you made here, of course.
The question remains: Why did you lie about the dates?