Once Again, I See This Bad Internet Bill From Senators Manchin & Cornyn, And So I’m Saying Something

from the see-nothing,-say-nothing dept

Not this again… a few years ago we wrote a post about Senator Joe Manchin’s very, very, very bad “See Something Say Something” Act. The bill would remove Section 230 for companies that don’t file a shit ton of nonsense busywork filings for anything they see online that might be bad having to do with illegal drug sales. Basically, if a company becomes aware of anything suspicious it would need to file a “suspicious transmission activity report” (STAR).

Last year, Manchin tried and thankfully failed to sneak that bill into the must pass NDAA.

But it’s a new year and a new session, and Manchin (joined by Senator John Cornyn)} are back to reintroduce the bill. Again, it’s being framed in such a weird way:

“Last year alone, the Drug Enforcement Administration seized enough fentanyl to kill every American, much of it ordered over the Internet and sent by mail from China. The Internet has drastically changed since Section 230 was written in 1996, nearly 30 years ago, and while it keeps us all more connected than ever before, it also makes it easier to conduct illegal activity online,” said Senator Manchin. “We must amend Section 230 to better reflect the way the Internet impacts our lives today – both good and bad. Senator Cornyn and I reintroduced our bipartisan legislation that uses a commonsense approach to create a clear mechanism for reporting criminal activity online, requiring companies to take reasonable steps to report unlawful activity or be held liable for that failure. It is past time we held these sites accountable.”

What the actual fuck does the DEA’s seizures of fentanyl have to do with Section 230? These are wholly unrelated issues. Also, given that the DEA loves to make up crazy conspiracy theories about fentanyl, I’m going to have to ask for some actual evidence to the line that it was enough to kill every American.

First of all, Section 230 already has an exemption for federal criminal activities, what do drug sales have to do with Section 230? Second, “see something, say something” has always been a dumb, failed concept, because it leads to mass reporting of utter nonsense, overwhelming those looking for actual problems. You end up flooding law enforcement with garbage reports. Third, the most astute thing for a website facing this nonsense requirement to file a report for anything suspicious to do is to stop looking altogether. The more you look, the more you’ll have to report. So, congrats Senator Manchin, your bill would make it so social media companies do less to stop illegal drug sales.

Indeed, Section 230 is a big part of what lets social media companies continue to adapt and change to try to stop the sale of illegal drugs on their platform, without fearing liability for making a mistake. Manchin’s bill would wipe that way, giving them less freedom to actually help.

Also, admittedly this is not my area of expertise, but I would expect that even if drug dealers are using social media today, such activity would likely move to encrypted communications like WhatsApp, Telegram, and Signal rather than traditional social media, meaning that the companies wouldn’t be able to monitor it anyway.

This whole thing, yet again, stinks of politicians and moral panics, and the desire to blame social media for larger societal issues that neither Manchin nor Cornyn actually want to do the heavy lifting to deal with. The opioid epidemic, which Manchin has talked about for years, isn’t going to be solved by making social media company fling piles and piles of useless time-wasting paperwork at law enforcement. It needs real solutions. Solutions Manchin refuses to consider.

Filed Under: , , , , , , , ,

Rate this comment as insightful
Rate this comment as funny
You have rated this comment as insightful
You have rated this comment as funny
Flag this comment as abusive/trolling/spam
You have flagged this comment
The first word has already been claimed
The last word has already been claimed
Insightful Lightbulb icon Funny Laughing icon Abusive/trolling/spam Flag icon Insightful badge Lightbulb icon Funny badge Laughing icon Comments icon

Comments on “Once Again, I See This Bad Internet Bill From Senators Manchin & Cornyn, And So I’m Saying Something”

Subscribe: RSS Leave a comment
35 Comments
This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Upstream (profile) says:

Misdirection

Manchin and Cornyn, like all politicians and many (most?) of the people running “solve a problem” NGOs, are not at all interested in actually solving any problems. That would put them out of their jobs, and make their uselessness quite apparent. They are interested in continuing “the fight” indefinitely, because that is what brings in the donations, campaign contributions, and votes.

Looking at you, WLP & NRA, as one of the best examples of this.

fairuse (profile) says:

Great! More Don't be Stupid, Stupid Lawmakers

  1. Close the USA southern border. fentanyl path: China >> South American drug cartels >> Mexico USA border >> illegals move it into USA Cities.
  2. Online order? Already a crime so bust the site. Customs and Postal Inspectors do not grandstand.

This is crazy. Jeezus, we get the kind of government that is bought and paid for by (REDACTED).

Anonymous Coward says:

This is another example where new digital infrastructure within domestic borders can skip all of the negative SEO tactics.

They will always blame outside interference. Domestic digital infrastructure circumvents all of it.

The next generation of politics gets a healthy start as well. Its just domestic issues. No ambiguity to speak of. Its in plain English.

This comment has been deemed funny by the community.
anymouse says:

Wait a minute, I thought we were told all the fentanyl came from Mexico on the backs of illegal aliens crossing the ‘open border’ illegally?

Now we are supposed to believe that it’s all coming from China through mail orders (that apparently make it through our postal service uninterrupted)…

Next they will be saying it’s brought in from North of the border on giant Chinese balloons…

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Lol. I’m surprised they haven’t linked the ballons to covid smovid. It seems right up their alley.

Dope man would have had their abode burned to the ground had they tried to lace their stuff with inferior components or cut their powder with too much inositol.

Some generations had the experiment phase of life sooooooo much better.

I wonder in locations that legalized all drugs if cocaine in beverages has made a comeback.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Koby (profile) says:

Co-opting Corporations

We saw similar tactics with the FBI and the Twitter Files a few weeks ago. The FBI began policing Twitter, identified accounts that were accused of “misinformation”, and then expected Twitter to perform a takedown. This legislation formalizes the system: force service providers to do law enforcement’s job with regards to their war on drugs. The FBI will send a notice to the company, and then expect to get back a report on the user. There won’t be an option to “not look”. And because the FBI will send out a notice of bad behavior to the company, I bet there won’t be any warrant requirement.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The last time an organization managed to hijack another for nefarious purposes was in the fucking 70s, Koby.

That is, the Soviet Union, through their Latin American toadies, hijacked at least one Christian church to fund Soviet-backed terror cells.

Not even China is doing that NOW. They know better ways, like fucking with the economy, forcing failing states like Russia to be vassals and well, blackmail, turning former allies of convenience and whatnot.

All while the FBI play stupid games and enable white supremacists like YOU to commit insurrection amd worse.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Kazairl says:

Good job

Gob job with this one, Manchin and Cornyn. Imagine there are real crimes on your site, but you don’t dare to say something because you’d have to do too much paperwork, this is the scenario that would be the result of this crappy bill, with crime online flourishing. They could introduce bills that really would help, but no, they distract with badly written bills.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
fairuse (profile) says:

Unworkable

The text from Manchin’s web page:

“The See Something, Say Something Online Act would change Section 230 by:
Requiring companies to report suspicious activity to law enforcement, similar to the way that banks are required to report suspicious transactions over $10,000 or others that might signal criminal activity.
Creating a system similar to the Bank Secrecy Act by authorizing the creation of an office within the Department of Justice (DOJ) to act as the clearinghouse for these reports, similar to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) within the Department of Treasury.
Raising the threshold for reporting to serious crimes like illegal drug sales, hate crimes, murder, or terrorism to ensure that users’ privacy remains safe.
Requiring that companies must take reasonable steps to prevent or address unlawful activity and can be held liable if they fail to report criminal activity.
The See Something, Say Something Online Act is endorsed by the National Association of Boards of Pharmacy and the Alliance for Safe Online Pharmacies.”

The bill https://www.manchin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/see_something_say_something_text.pdf?cb does not track with that statement. What the bill says remove 230 in various ways for various reasons.

This is impossible to implement – it is just a method to remove 230.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The See Something, Say Something Online Act is endorsed by the National Association of Boards of Pharmacy and the Alliance for Safe Online Pharmacies.”

And there is the real reason for this bill, stop US citizens buying affordable drugs from foreign pharmacies, and so boost the profits of the US ones.

This comment has been deemed funny by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

I’m going to have to ask for some actual evidence to the line that it was enough to kill every American.

Mike I believe the logic for that goes like this: If every American had a tiny bit of fentanyl on/near them, US police would be forced to massacre everyone. For their own safety.

That One Guy (profile) says:

It was one needle per ten straw, now it's one per million and counting

So funny thing, while a ‘see something say something’ bill would be terrible for law enforcement because any good tips would be drowned out by junk ones that sites send in due to the legal mandate you know who would benefit greatly from a bill like that?

The very criminals he’s using to justify the bill, who would have a vastly easier time of it since it would be even harder to find and catch them.

I’ve no doubt that numerous people have told him this which means if he’s still pushing the idea it’s deliberately and with that in mind, so congrats Senator Joe Manchin for your unflagging support of criminals, it’s certainly a strange demographic to play to but it takes all sorts in politics I guess.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Unfortunately he’s right, blumenthal and blackburn are going to re-introduce the kids online safety act during a committee hearing on “protecting kids online” on Tuesday.

https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/blumenthal-and-blackburn-statement-on-senate-judiciary-committees-upcoming-hearing-on-childrens-online-safety

However I don’t see anything on the earn it act yet. graham hasn’t re-introduced it yet.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

This is the height of insanity, where the House Republicans know that the Senate won’t even take up such bills, let alone that the President would not sign them. And failing to even consider that they require a 2/3rd majority to overturn a veto, well, that’s just theater, and poorly thought out theater at that. And yet they keep on trying, sigh.

Anyone else here remember Harry Shorten’s cartoon “There Oughta Be A Law!”? Or perhaps equally appropriate, Jimmy Hatlo’s “They’ll Do It Every Time”. Both are perfect caricatures of today’s Republicans, in or out of Congress.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

This is bipartisan, richard blumenthal and joe manchin are democrats and the bills are being re-introduced in the senate. Don’t assume all bad bills only come from republicans or assume that biden wouldn’t support these, he’s expressed support for killing section 230 multiple times before and during his presidency.

Assuming Ron Wyden is still aware of these threats he can veto these but he can fail if the other Rs and Ds get 60 votes, it depends how many senators actually don’t want these bills passed the number of which I’m not privy to.

Anonymous Coward says:

What puzzles me right now is, why are there so many AC’s that are attempting to “storm the Bastille”, if you will. Is someone really attempting to AI the joint into oblivion? Not that I’m falling for it, mind you, just wondering what the Hell’s going on, that’s all.

I mean, off-topic word salads really don’t earn any respect anywhere, let alone here, so why is there such a concerted effort? Inquiring minds want to know!

sumgai

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Add Your Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here

Comment Options:

Make this the or (get credits or sign in to see balance) what's this?

What's this?

Techdirt community members with Techdirt Credits can spotlight a comment as either the "First Word" or "Last Word" on a particular comment thread. Credits can be purchased at the Techdirt Insider Shop »

Follow Techdirt

Techdirt Daily Newsletter

Subscribe to Our Newsletter

Get all our posts in your inbox with the Techdirt Daily Newsletter!

We don’t spam. Read our privacy policy for more info.

Ctrl-Alt-Speech

A weekly news podcast from
Mike Masnick & Ben Whitelaw

Subscribe now to Ctrl-Alt-Speech »
Techdirt Deals
Techdirt Insider Discord
The latest chatter on the Techdirt Insider Discord channel...
Loading...