If Someone Is Prattling On About Spam On Twitter And How That Helps Elon Musk, Send Them This Article

from the setting-the-record-straight dept

We’ve explained the details of Twitter’s case against Elon Musk and the legal issues at play multiple times, but for reasons I don’t fully understand, the general narrative on Twitter seems to be that Elon is likely to win the case, and it’s because “Twitter lied about spam.” This is not even close to accurate, so I thought I’d lay out the details here in a format that can be sent to people if they start spouting off about how “Twitter lied about spam!” This post, by the way, was inspired by this tweet, which Elon promoted (he responded to the same guy who re-upped the post a few hours later).

If you can’t see the image, it’s a screenshot of a tweet by some dude named Pranay Pathole, who seems to exist only to tweet nonsense that fluffs up Musk’s projects, and it says:

Why is it that everyone is talking about @elonmusk waiving his right to due diligence & he now has to face the consequences or buy Twitter, but no one is talking about how Twitter omitted or didn’t publicly disclose the actual number of bots on the platform? Seems dubious

So, let’s break apart this tweet, and some other similar claims, and show why they’re all misleading at best, or just outright lies at worst.

Did Twitter lie about spam on the platform?

There is little to no evidence to support this claim. The argument people are making is that Twitter “lied” about there being only 5% bots on the platform. Here’s another version of the same kind of argument from another account that seems to only tweet pro-Musk content, showing what this guy claims (incorrectly) is “visualizing the change in Twitter fake/spam accounts over the past 30 quarters (7.5 years)” and showing a flat line at 5%:

Elon also promoted this tweet, and one has to assume that at least one of Elon’s lawyers has explained to him why this is not what he seems to be pretending it is, which leads me to believe that Elon doesn’t care and enjoys misleading his rather vocal fanbase.

So, let’s get this out of the way: Twitter does not report “the number of spam accounts on the platform.” The 5% number is not, and has never been, the number of spam accounts on the platform. What Twitter reports, and what the 5% actually is, is a review of how much spam is left after Twitter removes tons of spam accounts through a variety of automated and other means. As Twitter’s CEO explained, they have processes in place that remove over half a million potential spam accounts every day, and often lock others until they can prove they’re real (e.g. by providing a phone number for verification).

Then, AFTER the company has already removed all that spam, it regularly (basically every day) conducts a sample, reviewed by humans, to see how much spam is left on the platform. And while Musk insists this process is ineffective, he’s wrong. As we’ve explained, using basic statistical design practices, if you want a 95% confidence interval with Twitter’s population size, sampling 100 random accounts per day gets you 9000 per quarter, which gives you a margin of error of 1%.

Next, what Twitter actually reports in its filing never comes even remotely close to saying “we have 5% spam on the platform.” Here’s what the company actually says in its SEC filings:

While these numbers are based on whatwe believe to be reasonable estimates for the applicable period of measurement, there are inherent challenges in measuring usage and engagement across ourlarge number of total accounts around the world. Furthermore, our metrics may be impacted by our information quality efforts, which are our overall efforts toreduce malicious activity on the service, inclusive of spam, malicious automation, and fake accounts. For example, there are a number of false or spam accountsin existence on our platform. We have performed an internal review of a sample of accounts and estimate that the average of false or spam accounts during thefourth quarter of 2021 represented fewer than 5% of our mDAU during the quarter. The false or spam accounts for a period represents the average of false orspam accounts in the samples during each monthly analysis period during the quarter. In making this determination, we applied significant judgment, so ourestimation of false or spam accounts may not accurately represent the actual number of such accounts, and the actual number of false or spam accounts couldbe higher than we have estimated. We are continually seeking to improve our ability to estimate the total number of spam accounts and eliminate them from thecalculation of our mDAU, and have made improvements in our spam detection capabilities that have resulted in the suspension of a large number of spam,malicious automation, and fake accounts. We intend to continue to make such improvements. After we determine an account is spam, malicious automation, orfake, we stop counting it in our mDAU, or other related metrics. We also treat multiple accounts held by a single person or organization as multiple mDAUbecause we permit people and organizations to have more than one account. Additionally, some accounts used by organizations are used by many people withinthe organization. As such, the calculations of our mDAU may not accurately reflect the actual number of people or organizations using our platform.

There’s a lot to unpack here. However, first off, it’s all full of very clear caveats. It is quite clear that they are not, in any way, saying that it is definitive that 5% of the accounts are spam. The company admits that the number could be higher, while also detailing how it is calculating this number.

Also, it notes that mDAU — monetizable daily active users — is only a subset of overall users and (importantly) once the company identifies spam accounts (again, around half a million per day), it immediately removes them from mDAU. So let’s emphasize this again: the “less than 5%” number is AFTER the company has already removed hundreds of thousands of spam accounts per day from that calculation. It’s what remains after the company has used other methods to find and remove spam.

Then, the company is pretty clear that after it’s gone through that process, it samples randomly on an ongoing basis. And, as we showed above, this presents a very statistically robust setup. Given the 1% margin of error, what this almost certainly means is that each quarter, as Twitter manually reviews 9000 accounts, it finds that the amount of spam that it missed is likely anywhere between 2 and 4%, and that it varies over time (contrary to the tweet above). With a 1% margin of error, the company could feel confident just putting that 5% upper bound and noting that its review indicates less than 5% of mDAUs are spam, and it has fundamental statistics to back that up.

When put into context, what this all means is that:

  • Contrary to claims you’ve heard, Twitter does not actually report how many spam accounts are on the platform.
  • Instead, Twitter uses a variety of automated and other processes to remove a ton of spam every single day. Whenever a spam account is removed from the platform, it is also removed from the company’s mDAU calculation
  • AFTER all that spam is removed, THEN Twitter (on a daily basis) has human experts randomly sample a bunch of accounts, in a statistically meaningful way, to see if any spam accounts remain. It consistently finds less than 5% of accounts that get through their earlier anti-spam processes are still spam accounts, and does so at a statistically significant rate, with a margin of error of 1%.
  • It then reports that, based on this statistically rigorous process, less than 5% of the remaining accounts are found to be spam.
  • It carefully caveats all of this in its SEC filing, and explains the many ways in which there could be problems with this process, and why no one should rely on it as an accurate measure of spam on the platform. That’s not why it’s there.

So, again, just to emphasize this: Twitter does not actually report the “amount of spam” on its platform, because that’s meaningless. Instead, it has extensive systems in place to try to delete spam, and then after it does that (averaging about half a million accounts per day), it goes further and runs a sample with human review every day to find out how much spam still slipped through the process. It then tracks that number.

Also, again, as soon as it identifies spam, it removes that from the mDAU count.

So, no, Twitter does not appear to have misled anyone about how much spam is on the platform.

The only argument you could make about the original tweet is that, for reasons the guy did not intend, he’s correct that Twitter “didn’t publicly disclose the actual number of bots on the platform” because that number is meaningless. Twitter does publicly disclose a reasonable measure of how many fake accounts sneak through all of their other systems designed to catch and stop fake accounts from being monetizable.

Does any of this matter for the lawsuit?

Again the answer is no, not really, for multiple reasons, many of which look really bad for Musk. First off, even before Musk purchased Twitter, both in public and in private (as revealed in the lawsuit), Musk made it clear that he, personally, believed that Twitter had a lot more spam than the company publicly revealed. Indeed, he insisted that it was his number one priority to rid the platform of that spam. So, in general, it’s sort of laughable for him to then try to get out of the deal by claiming there was more spam, when his initial explanation for why he was buying it was to get rid of the spam.

Next, a part of the made up narrative (not actually in the lawsuit) is that Musk “relied on” Twitter’s SEC statements regarding how much spam was on the platform. That seems unbelievable given the paragraph above and his public and private comments. But, even if that were true, that would mean that Musk would have to admit having read Twitter’s SEC filings… which explicitly say not to rely on those numbers as an accurate accounting of spam on the platform. So, that already looks bad for Musk, since he either read the details which say “don’t rely on this” or he didn’t… and relied on the numbers he didn’t actually read as a basis to agree to spend $44 billion. And that seems even more dubious in light of the next part:

If the amount of spam being much higher than he believed was actually an issue of concern to Musk, then there were multiple steps he could have taken prior to the deal being signed. First, Musk had every opportunity to ask Twitter if he could conduct due diligence on the amount of spam on the platform. If he were actually concerned about the percentage of spam, that would be not just the most logical step to take, it would be a necessary condition on the deal. There was no indication of an alternative buyer. Musk had all the time in the world to conduct the necessary due diligence.

Second, purchase agreements often have representations and warranties on issues like this — effectively having the purchase agreement say something to the effect of “Twitter represents that the amount of spam counted in our mDAU is less than 5%” and then there would be a warranty or indemnity if that turned out to be untrue, enabling Musk to force Twitter to make him whole for misrepresenting the number.

Musk chose not to do this.

In other words, there were multiple ways that Musk could have easily baked into the purchase agreement an effective guarantee on Twitter’s counting of fake accounts in the mDAU calculations (again, not the total spam on the platform). But he explicitly waived the right to examine that issue in more detail and to his own satisfaction before the deal, and also chose not to include a basic rep and warranty in the final deal, which is something anyone actually concerned about this number would absolutely do.

Given those two (conceivably very bad) choices by Musk, he is left with no “out” on the contract over the amount of spam in the mDAU calculation (which, again, as we showed above, has not been shown in any way to be inaccurate). Even if it were inaccurate, Musk left on the cutting room floor his opportunities to contractually deal with higher-than-believed spam.

So, nothing in the lawsuit is actually about how much spam is on the platform.

But Twitter amended their filings right after the deal! Isn’t that material? Doesn’t that change things?

This is part of the argument that Musk makes in his response to the lawsuit, and I’ve seen his fans harp on it as well. But even in the lawsuit they don’t make that much about it, because there’s not much to make. You can see the details in the filing, on page two. It notes that the company had revised how it was calculating mDAO after discovering an error in the earlier calculation, and they explained what the error was:

In March of 2019, we launched a feature that allowed people to link multiple separate accounts together in order to conveniently switch between accounts. An error was made at that time, such that actions taken via the primary account resulted in all linked accounts being counted as mDAU. This resulted in an overstatement of mDAU from Q1’19 through Q4’21.

So, basically, the mDAU calculations were just slightly off because of one type of account, one that is rarely used — where an account holder links together multiple accounts (for something like a corporate account, for example) and that counting error slightly inflated the mDAUs. Was it material? Uh, not really. In the last quarter accounted for, Q4 of 2021, the global mDAU was 214.7 million instead of 216.6 million. So, the corrected method decreased mDAU by… wait for it… less than 1%.

This was no big secret plot to overstate spam accounts. It’s not even about spam accounts. It was about a calculation error of one kind of account, that had a miniscule impact on overall mDAU.

The restatement was not misleading, was not a material misstatement, and does not actually have a meaningful impact on Twitter’s ability to monetize. It also has fuck all to do with spam accounts.

So what is the lawsuit actually about?

It seems clear that at some point, Musk decided he wanted out of the deal. His lawyers scoured the agreement, and must have slapped their heads at Musk’s initial failures to ask for due diligence, let alone the lack of reps and warranties on this issue. The only thing they picked up on was a clause that said that Twitter had to provide Musk with information necessary to close the deal, if Twitter felt it was reasonable and safe to provide that info to Musk.

Here’s the language in the original merger agreement. The key part is Section 6.4, and just to be clear “Parent” is Elon Musk and “the Company” is Twitter.

Section 6.4 Access to Information; Confidentiality. Upon reasonable notice, the Company shall (and shall cause each of its Subsidiaries to) afford to the representatives, officers, directors, employees, agents, attorneys, accountants and financial advisors (“Representatives”) of Parent reasonable access (at Parent’s sole cost and expense), in a manner not disruptive in any material respect to the operations of the business of the Company and its Subsidiaries, during normal business hours and upon reasonable written notice throughout the period commencing on the date of this Agreement until the earlier of the Effective Time and the termination of this Agreement pursuant to Article VIII, to the properties, books and records of the Company and its Subsidiaries and, during such period, shall (and shall cause each of its Subsidiaries to) furnish promptly to such Representatives all information concerning the business, properties and personnel of the Company and its Subsidiaries as may reasonably be requested in writing, in each case, for any reasonable business purpose related to the consummation of the transactions contemplated by this Agreement; provided, however, that nothing herein shall require the Company or any of its Subsidiaries to disclose any information to Parent or Acquisition Sub if such disclosure would, in the reasonable judgment of the Company, (i) cause significant competitive harm to the Company or its Subsidiaries if the transactions contemplated by this Agreement are not consummated, (ii) violate applicable Law or the provisions of any agreement to which the Company or any of its Subsidiaries is a party, or (iii) jeopardize any attorney-client or other legal privilege. No investigation or access permitted pursuant to this Section 6.4 shall affect or be deemed to modify any representation or warranty made by the Company hereunder. Each of Parent and Acquisition Sub agrees that it will not, and will cause its Representatives not to, use any information obtained pursuant to this Section 6.4 (or otherwise pursuant to this Agreement) for any competitive or other purpose unrelated to the consummation of the transactions contemplated by this Agreement. Parent will use its reasonable best efforts to minimize any disruption to the respective business of the Company and its Subsidiaries that may result from requests for access under this Section 6.4 and, notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein, the Company may satisfy its obligations set forth above by electronic means if physical access is not reasonably feasible or would not be permitted under applicable Law as a result of COVID-19 or any COVID-19 Measures. Prior to any disclosure, the Company and Parent shall enter into a customary confidentiality agreement with respect to any information obtained pursuant to this Section 6.4 (or otherwise pursuant to this Agreement).

Again, note how carefully caveated this is. Musk is allowed to request information, but that information can only be requested “for any reasonable business purpose related to the consummation of the transactions” AND on top of that, the agreement makes clear that the Company, Twitter, gets to decide not to share that information if it believes it might harm Twitter.

That puts Musk in a pretty tough spot. He can ask for information, but it has to be for the purpose of consummating the transaction. And there is no evidence that Musk needs details on spam accounts to consummate the transaction. If he did, he should have put that into the purchase agreement. But he didn’t.

Also, the purchase agreement makes it clear that Twitter gets to decide if it feels Musk is going to use the information for malicious purposes — including anti-competitive purposes — and thus refuse to provide the info to Musk without violating the deal.

In Twitter’s complaint, the company notes that Musk stated both publicly and privately to Twitter execs and board members that he was also considering just starting up a competitor. So, demanding access to all sorts of proprietary info from Twitter could easily raise concerns that Musk was just fishing for useful information for a would-be competitor, rather than using this info to consummate the deal.

That said, Twitter still provided Musk with all sorts of information anyway, so it’s difficult to argue that it didn’t live up to this clause in the agreement. Musk claims that some information requested wasn’t delivered, but much of that information likely doesn’t exist. This is likely on purpose. If the reason for these information requests were not to consummate the deal, but rather to search for an excuse to bail on the deal, it would make sense that Musk would keep asking for more and more ridiculous and impossible-to-obtain info.

And that’s what he did. Musk’s information requests were increasingly ridiculous, including the “daily measures of mDAU for the past 8 quarters” with “access to the sample set used and calculations performed” by the human reviewers to determine if accounts (again, out of the random sample of all who made it through the more aggressive culling process) were spam. But it seems likely that Twitter is not keeping track of the daily detailed notes of every single one of these human reviews. Because that would be silly.

Either way, note that the supposed breach of this clause (which again, does not appear to have actually been breached) is what the attempted termination, and thus the lawsuit, is actually about. Musk has to show that he requested information that was necessary for completing the deal and that Twitter didn’t give it to him.

Twitter just has to show that (1) it gave him what he asked for and (2) anything it didn’t give him either didn’t exist or in Twitter’s estimation was either not necessary for consummating the deal or could be abused by Musk.

Note that “how much spam is on the platform” doesn’t even remotely play into any of this.

A note on terminology:

There’s a lot going on here, but I also did want to note that the terminology here is also somewhat confusing, because people seem to be using “spam,” “bots,” and “fake accounts” interchangeably, even though they’re not all the same. There are human spammers. There are (often useful!) non-spam bot accounts. There are satirical fake accounts. Lumping all three categories together can lead to some problems.

The real concern for Twitter (and Musk) should be about what percentage of spam bots (not just “bots”) are making it through Twitter’s big list of defenses. Otherwise the conversation gets weird fast.

Final thoughts:

I’ve seen plenty of very smart people getting confused by all of this and insisting that the number of spam accounts must be the crux of the issue here. So don’t feel bad if you were confused. Musk has not helped things by continuing to push this false narrative (I have no clue if he doesn’t understand it, or just doesn’t care and wants to push the false narrative because it works in the court of public opinion). I’m not even sure what giving him the benefit of the doubt looks like here. Either he doesn’t understand his own case (doubtful) or he is deliberately misleading his most loyal fans (disgusting).

But the key points here are that (1) there is not, in fact, evidence that Twitter is misleading in spam counts. The methodology used appears to be sound, but even if it’s not, Twitter more than adequately disclaims the possible issues with this number. (2) Musk had ample opportunity prior to the deal to raise this issue and do due diligence or put in a contractual term in the purchase agreement to account for potential differences. He did none of that. (3) Musk’s own statements completely erase the idea that he was somehow taken by surprise by the amount of spam on the platform. (4) The actual reasons for the termination, while the lawyers try to connect it to the spam issue, are not actually about the spam issue at all, but rather about what information Twitter is providing Musk after the agreement was signed. (5) Based on the purchase agreement it appears that Musk is asking for information way beyond the scope of what is required in the agreement and Twitter has adequate contractual protections for refusing to share some of it (again, something Musk could have negotiated on but didn’t). Even so, it appears that Twitter still went above and beyond and provided Musk with a lot more information that he was entitled to under the contract.

So, no, the amount of spam on the platform is really not at issue in this case, even if Musk and his fans will continue to pretend otherwise.

Please feel free to share this article widely whenever you see people spreading misinformation about the lawsuit and, in particular, the claims about Twitter spam.

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Comments on “If Someone Is Prattling On About Spam On Twitter And How That Helps Elon Musk, Send Them This Article”

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177 Comments
That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re:

He doesn’t really need to run socks himself, just check in on any post remotely mentioning Elon or Tesla around here and you see the fanbois showing up claiming the author is just out to get him or just doesn’t understand the awesome vision Elon has… like having the Boring Company building tunnels in Florida…

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Your comment is beyond “stupid.” Its in beyond B1z4rr074nd.

Elon gets him some serious stank on his dank, and actual pussy–does that bother you, in some way?

Riiight, incel. Nice try. Go photo op an abortion clinic with pictures of yourself crawling towards “life” in the dumpster of an abortion clinic, and SURVIVING or something–save women from having children like you, EVER.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Oooh! The comparison between RMS Titanic and its partner in bankster crime the Olympic really upset the legacy bankster mobs!!

And, the Institute for Statecraft weighed in, above. It’s OK “spergtrolll schismogenicist,”we got your back. Carrots and cucumbers soon to follow, crooks. Enjoy your vegetarian word salad.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Oh look, US-FVEY’s spy centers and Fusion Center besties the eponymous Thing 1 and Thing 2–can’t tell the difference between the Titanic and the RMS Olympic, as per their usual shtick.

Schismogenesis FTW!!! Add “the antisemitism’s,the anti-ableisiismsmsisms, hates wimmins!!, et puke FTW!!!

BTW– Thing 1 and 2 have managed to sperg on about “ableism” hundreds of times, over the last month, not-coincidentally, during “Disability Pride Month.”

That kind of leans towards outing both of these shit-traps as paid shills and derailers, but, WDIK?

LOL.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Fool me nonce…

AC .mil/ ADL/hasbara/NGO unspecified troll’s greatest hits, repeated ad nauseum in every single comments section where Thing 1 and Thing 2 appear:

you’re ableist!

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:6

No need for projection—anyone can see what a schismogenetic ass-raper you are.

re:

 you’re ableist! 

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

Seriously, get a new sperg-schtick. Your lines are so…..um….Ukraine, 2009.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:6

No need for projection—anyone can see what a schismogenetic ass-raper you are.

re:

you’re ableist!

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

Seriously, get a new sperg-schtick. Your lines are so…..um….Ukraine, 2009.

Dr. Fancypants, Esq. (profile) says:

Flooding the zone...

Given the number of people I see in online forums who are completely immune to education on the bots vs. mDAU issue, I’ve become convinced that almost none of the noise pushing the Twitter spam issue is made in good faith. I have no idea how Musk has so many people (real people? bots?) carrying water for him on so many platforms, but it seems like a classic attempt to flood the zone with garbage.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:

AC-bots right here be taking it to a whole new level of personal, lol:

“people seem to be using “spam,” “bots,” and “fake accounts” interchangeably, even though they’re not all the same. There are human spammers”

Yup, and most of them use “AC” as a nym. I left Twitter half a decade ago, never looked back.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Ac, aka “the nonce” aka Thing 1‘s greatest SPAM hits:

you’re ableist!

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You are not a person-you are:

you’re ableist!

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You are not a person-you are:

you’re ableist! 

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Every projection, a reiteration of your confession.

I told you that many times over the years, nonce. Again, I am sorry about your CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER status, but hey–the Scouts and their brand of “All American” simply need to go.

And BTW? Why did Dick Tracy, and Batman all have little boyfriends, or sleep with boys in those old comics anyways?

I bet you know the answer. JTRIG-US-FVEY’s .intel trolls so perverse. From Rome, until today, the members of the various lodges are all pederasts by definition.

Now bugger off!

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This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
That One Guy (profile) says:

Musk and his lawyers are going to turn that table into splinters...

The ultimate kicker, and the thing that has got to have his lawyers all sorts of stressed out is that even if he was right it still wouldn’t matter. When you explicitly say you don’t care about a particular detail in your legal agreement you don’t get to use that detail later to claim the deal is off, so even if Twitter had just been making the numbers up on the spot it wouldn’t help him.

He screwed up and is going to be out a good chunk of money as a result, the sooner he accepts this and stops throwing a tantrum the better off it’s likely to go for him.

Whoever says:

SPAM, or SPAM accounts?

and what the 5% actually is, is a review of how much spam is left after Twitter removes tons of spam accounts through a variety of automated and other means

You appear to conflate the amount of SPAM with the amount of SPAM accounts. I would assume that SPAM accounts are more active than the average, thus the amount of SPAM would be considerably higher that the possible 5%.

Darkness Of Course (profile) says:

Re: When the Elon bros lose the plot

Spam itself isn’t an issue. It was never mentioned. You appear to have conflated the two. Not Mike, and not even Elon, aka He Who Mucks Up.

The important aspect is to remove the spam accounts, because they generate spam. Remove the spam accounts, the spam itself falls by definition.

Another detail that shows you have truly lost the plot, or – more likely – never understood the plot in the first place. Nobody has ever mentioned 5% re spam messages. Indeed, it would be beyond useless to insert it the discussion now. Why? Because the 5% number is pulled from the SEC filing, and it is a rough estimate of spam accounts after their automated processes (read the above article). But, nothing in their equation/process refers to messages/Tweets.

That’s on you. Nobody else.

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Thus says:

Elon knows bot issue is moot

Elon is not dumb. He knows the bot issue is moot. He knows the difference between mDAU and overall accounts.

His close peers like David Sacks and Jason Calacanis know this as well. They also are not dumb, yet they parrot the misinformation conflating mDAU and accounts. They also ignore the caveats in Twitter’s SEC filings.

Elon is smart, but also cunning. I believe that Elon is misleading the population regarding this issue so that it suppresses Twitter share price. This could serve two purposes. Either it could make a settlement or re-negotiation cheaper, or it could mean more profits for his friends who are taking long positions on Twitter in preparation for the $54.20 close.

Naughty Autie says:

Re:

Elon is smart, but also cunning.

No, he’s really, really dumb, believe me.

I believe that Elon is misleading the population regarding this issue so that it suppresses Twitter share price.

It might do, but Musk will still be on the hook for the entire $45 billion (which was originally $44 billion before his shenanigans).

Thus says:

Re: Re:

Even if Elon is not smart, his law firm most definitely is. Skadden is no slouch. At the very least, THEY know the bot issue is moot, and they HAVE told him.

Same goes for David Sacks and Jason Calacanis. They are smart people. They know.

Elon knows that he doesn’t need to be right about bots. He can be wrong about bots – he just needs to manipulate the populous into believing the story to suppress Twitter share price.

Naughty Autie says:

Re: Re: Re:

He can be wrong about bots – he just needs to manipulate the populous into believing the story to suppress Twitter share price.

Which is pointless since he’s contracted to pay $44 billion. According to the contractfiled with the Securities and Exchange Commission:

Under the Merger Agreement, at the effective time of the Merger, each issued and outstanding share of Twitter’s common stock (subject to certain exceptions set forth in the Merger Agreement) will be canceled and converted into the right to receive $54.20 in cash, without interest (the “Merger Consideration”).

That equates to nearly 812 million shares that Musk will have to purchase at the contracted price. Either Musk is really dumb or really ignorant, but either way, he didn’t take in what his lawyers said about his contractual obligations if he’s trying to suppress Twitter’s share price.

Thus says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Two potential reasons:

  1. To make a settlement or re-negotiation cheaper, if he can manage to get it (chances are very slim)

or

  1. To make Twitter long positions a more lucrative return for his friends, assuming he knows he will close for $54.20. This is similar to when banks undervalue IPOs in order to get a bigger return in public markets. While more of a wild theory, this would be a massive wealth transfer from Elon’s TSLA shares to Elon’s friends.
Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I’d say the first reason would be the most probable, but shitting on Twitter to suppress the share price while being sued seems like a risky strategy since the current shareholders will most likely then press for getting the original offered price.

The second reason would be extremely suspect to the SEC, and they already have their eyes on Musk. And for any wealth transfer to be profitable these people would have to buy a lot of Twitter shares between Musk saying that he intended to buy Twitter to the moment the deal is done.

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Dr. Fancypants, Esq. (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

While Skadden is Musk’s local counsel in Delaware, Quinn Emanuel appears to be his primary litigation counsel for this matter. (Quinn Emanuel is also no slouch, though.)

I think it’s a stretch to suggest that Musk is playing some kind of 11th dimensional chess here, though. He made some very dumb decisions around acquiring Twitter, and those decisions are now coming back to bite him in the ass. Based on the quality of the arguments his lawyers are making, my guess is that he’s dug so deep a hole for himself (between the merger agreement he negotiated and his public statements) that even very good litigators are struggling to develop a winning argument for him.

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Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Hey Mike?

Yes, Mike, I’m calling for a reply here!

Given: i truly believe mr space man didn’t know what he was getting into.

But anyone who uses twitter can see Day 1! That their method of funding is barely hidden spamming of their users!

How he missed this fact, when every 5th message post on a thread is spam of one sort or another… I don’t buy it.
The very system is based on spamming the user.

So, why keep up the false notion of lack of spam? Is it not more realistic to simply say Musk didn’t comprehend that the service requires spamming users to create income?! And therefore there is no current way forward that would cut out spam?!

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Trolling? Because I hate companies that post advertising and pretend they don’t?
Or is it because I don’t really care what happens to them?
Or is it because I don’t care who does or does not get some sort of platform on social jokia.

I made a factual statement! Twitter sends users unsolicited advertising that is hosted just like all the other messages.
In other words: twitter sends spam.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I made a factual statement!

No, you told a lie.

Twitter sends users unsolicited advertising that is hosted just like all the other messages.

It’s clearly marked as promotional, as you’ve admitted yourself. As for it being “unsolicited”, you signed up for your Twitter account knowing that many sites support themselves through advertising and you’ve said yourself that you support such endeavors by not running an ad blocker. It doesn’t get more solicited than that. Now pipe down, you’re starting to make Trump look smart.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yeah, but wutabout the shareholders?! They have #feelingztoo!

  • US-FVEY’s, [NSA-et alphabet, via Denmark]https://covertactionmagazine.com/2020/12/10/outposts-of-the-u-s-surveillance-empire-denmark-and-beyond/)

Big Pharma and their internet coup de tat of binary, schismogenetic discourse, with billion dollar gain of function research, blaming the Chi-uh-neese for COVID

Elon Musk, if anything, calls their Tweeterings “spam.” My money is on that exact meme, after he buys it foor a drastically reduced price.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Yeah, but why does fucking off always end up with me meeting your mom, wearing her Hitler pants? Weird.

Leiderhosen and turds in her face, while she mumbles your birth in an alley, and yaks on about ” I failed!!”.

Your mom be like–an Eva Braun clone, but more do-able. With turds, on your birthday.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:

Tech Support: How can I help you today?

LIL: IfS styled ADL/neocon/.mil cancer at the switch trolls

Tech Support: I see you have the same problem the entire world has: ADL-hasbara spergtrolls control Techdirt’s comments forum. The flag button is over there>>>>>> Use it, lots.

And, I suggest you use more than one device, and check back regularly to help solve this problem. The flag button is over there>>>>>> Use it, lots.

Mike Masnick: Wow, why didn’t I think of that!? Cuz, Elon bromancing, love-hating….

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Ac, aka “the nonce” aka Thing 1‘s greatest SPAM hits:

you’re ableist!

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

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Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re:

How he missed this fact, when every 5th message post on a thread is spam of one sort or another… I don’t buy it. The very system is based on spamming the user.

This is not my experience with Twitter. I very rarely see spam, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

The only times I see spam are when conversations turn to cryptocurrency.

And, I don’t understand your question. “Why keep up the false notion of lack of spam?”

You clearly did not read the article. Your question makes no sense.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Assuming he runs, there’s virtually no chance I’d vote for him in 24. Last thing we need now that a dementia patient candidate has destroyed our economy is someone who support reducing corporate taxes while failing to cut wasteful spending! Especially someone who would not protect non-extractable investments.

There’s zero chance Biden wins a second term. Zero. Meaning we can safely vote around his existence.

Who knows, maybe someone with a bit of rational thought on environmental concerns, with reasonable time frames.
Maybe someone who would tax corporations, the source, rather than individuals.
Someone who won’t involve our country in foreign conflicts.

There’s little doubt that a trump lead white house now, would decimate the internet and install a judaeo-islamo-christian theocracy.

While I’m extremely fearful of the Democrat idea of stealing rifles (responsible for less than 1% of gun crimes) from the population. Their total lack of respect for law and order and two-faced blindness to crime…!
In all likelihood the a Republican contenders will be extreme right wing religious fuckoffs.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Maybe it’s because I’m only following one company, 3 accounts. But every day it’s
Post post spam post post spam post spam post. Occasionally I get some crazy who-to-follow
Today I have prime video (I’m a subscriber)
Expand your timeline (uh, no)
Webull
Anker (hey, a useful one)
Expand your timeline (nope)
Who to follow
True bill
Discover new lists

Non of that was solicited. Hence, spam.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Twitter doesn’t promote ordinary posts

The only promoted posts I’ve seen are advertisements

run an ad blocker

That doesn’t do anything on apps.

close your Twitter account

That would deprive me of vital announcements that the company I follow for some asinine reason no longer posts on their own site.

lying troll

Do you deny that twitter posts “promoted” content, by your own words not “ordinary posts” but advertising?
Because I posted screen caps. Promoted content only comes from twitter. Not other users.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

confused

Not really. From the Controlling the Assault of Non-Solicited Pornography and Marketing Act (CAN-SPAM) Act of 2003 (Public Law 108-187)
Here’s a few issues given twitter is a messaging service

Accurate “From” lines
Relevant subject lines (relative to offer in body content and not deceptive)

A message cannot be sent without an unsubscribe option.
Unsubscribe option should be below the message

Now it’s clearly legal: I have a registered account and thus a prior relationship.
But it’s still spam.

What bugs me about it is it’s useless. I have no problem with targeted advertising. Tracking on, history cache never cleared (pruned occasionally), cross site tracking, cross app tracking. All fine with me.
I have no problem clicking on relevant adverts. Which help fund sites I use.
But twitter can’t even get targeting right.
The adverts are usually of zero interest. The who to follow makes no sense. It’s just pointless spam.

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TallDave says:

nah

sorry, but very little of the above handwaving about spam or mDAUs is relevant

Elon’s primary claim (and the reason he will win in any halfway reasonable courtroom) is simply that Twitter didn’t give him the requested API licenses

that’s it

they give those API licenses to customers, but they wouldn’t give them to Elon, who is buying their company

does that make any sense?

Twitter board/mgmt could have refused this request for really only one of two possible reasons — either they know/suspect/fear what the APIs will reveal (in which case giving him those licenses could cost them tens of billions in a renegotiated deal), or they just don’t want to sell and are dragging their feet (possibly for ideological reasons)

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Dr. Fancypants, Esq. (profile) says:

Re:

Under the terms of the merger agreement, Twitter was only required to provide information necessary to close the deal, and had full discretion to refuse to provide information not necessary for that purpose. Access to Twitter’s API would be an important part of due diligence (which Musk foolishly waived), but is not necessary to consummate Musk’s acquisition of the company. I understand why Musk is grasping at straws here (he’s got a lot of money on the line), but there’s no need for you to grasp right along with him.

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TallDave says:

nah

sorry, but very little of the above handwaving about spam or mDAUs is relevant

Elon’s primary claim (and the reason he will win in any halfway reasonable courtroom) is simply that Twitter didn’t give him the requested API licenses

that’s it

they give those API licenses to customers, but they wouldn’t give them to Elon, who is buying their company

does that make any sense?

Twitter board/mgmt could have refused this request for really only one of two possible reasons — either they know/suspect/fear what the APIs will reveal (in which case giving him those licenses could cost them tens of billions in a renegotiated deal), or they just don’t want to sell and are dragging their feet (possibly for ideological reasons) but they have to pretend to try to sell to him for the usual fiduciary reasons

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

Elon’s primary claim (and the reason he will win in any halfway reasonable courtroom) is simply that Twitter didn’t give him the requested API licenses

Under the terms of the contract, they were not required to do so. Musk expressly waived due diligence, and Twitter can refuse to provide Musk with requested information if Twitter decides it’s not reasonable and/or not necessary to close the deal (according to Twitter’s discretion). As such, this claim is not a redressable injury by the court.

(This is all assuming the claim is true, BTW. Twitter has contested Musk’s assertions that they failed to turn over anything that was requested, so this isn’t a foregone conclusion.)

they give those API licenses to customers, but they wouldn’t give them to Elon, who is buying their company

does that make any sense?

Yes. Elon has expressed interest in starting up a competitor and, by this point, had demonstrated cold feet in going through with the deal. As such, Twitter could reasonably fear that Elon would withdraw from the deal and use the API information to create his own start-up competitor. That’s a perfectly valid reason to not give him the licenses.

Also, they had every right to do so under the terms of the contract, so even if it doesn’t make sense, that wouldn’t give Musk something to sue over.

Twitter board/mgmt could have refused this request for really only one of two possible reasons — either they know/suspect/fear what the APIs will reveal (in which case giving him those licenses could cost them tens of billions in a renegotiated deal)

Which would also be a valid reason under the contract, and so not a cognizable injury under the law.

I also gave another reason: fear of Musk using those APIs to start a competitor instead of buying Twitter.

[…] or they just don’t want to sell and are dragging their feet (possibly for ideological reasons) but they have to pretend to try to sell to him for the usual fiduciary reasons

In which case suing Musk to try to force him to go through with the deal is a really stupid plan.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

LITERAL INTERPRETATION IS THE DEATH OF DEMOCRACY.

And literally–it’s all interesting, and Elon is clearly and semantically wrong, if we merely accept Musk’s one term “spam” without reading deeper, whereupon we find “shill,” and “IfS,” and terms like “paid placement,” and IDf-hasbara or alt-Right memes on Twitter, all of which I myself might also call “spam,” due to their unwanted content are annoying garbage.

But bigger picture–which I think a billionaire might actually have–is that he is relegating “bad speech, by invested actors” into its proper category as “spam,”not adhering to “conventions” of calling these disgusting PR firm garbage Tweet’s ” conversation.”

That’s what might come out of this out–a definitional bias about what–and who–are “spammers.”

Add in all of those NGO’s and CIA funded social media experiments, and what have you really got anyways?

Twitter, stripped of its gloss and garbage spewing PR firms and their trolls, is like the black vote in the US–50% destroyed by definitional biases, and racial discrimination of all kinds, enshrined as an institution.

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Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

from your “AC” one-liners to

Nobody puts much stock in anything stated by an anonymous coward.

Because your failure to register an account declares your lack of want: to stand behind your comments.

I reject the idea any AC has the right to call or anyone else. You are a disgrace.
I have more respect for Criminal Hillary Genocide Clinton than a wet fart stain that can’t put a history to their posts

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Fair enough. I respect your jdgement, and also share your angst over these two AC’s.

But– I suspect that you do not fully understand what these AC’s actually ARE.

Unfortunately, MANY people put stock in these scum. Many, many people, acording to linguistic analysis, and politial polling.

They are democracy subverters at the very level of this posting. Not Russians, not Chinese–but IfS, and II type trolls–every one of them. That’s my point, my only actual point.

No one has yet shown me the benefits of an “easily flagged account,” using a easily flagged nym, and I doubt such is possible, because of such aAC’s and ther easily verified troll armies here (IP’s).

While modding might be easier on your end if I register, no one has shown me how I can HELP fight Thing 1 and 2, et al without giving up my location data, my actual IP, or, fighting a troll war to keep such protected–these AC’s depend upon such skirmishes.

So, while “Nobody puts much stock in anything stated by an anonymous coward” might be true, other things are true also–like that their very presence here, unmasked, could reveal a larger agenda. Or, that unmasking them , here, would be a win for those of us whoo are actual democracy pundits. So far, they are wining.

It would make a great article, here, TBH. You see my argument clearly–they are ADL-spergs, or Institute for Statecraft types. Total scum, and neither of whom respect or uphold democracy in ANY form!

Umask THEM, and do an article–I have made the case for well over half a decade here.. Then, I will register, NP.

In the meantime, who knows who is actually who? Most know who I am–and I have never shied away from that, because my voice and causes are clear. Theirs are ambiguous and derailing, in EVERY THREAD.

They target me, personally–an indication that I am indeed what democracy actually is.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Well, you are clearly aligned with Thing 2 so there’s that. As for your beef with the CCP? That’s on you.

You have curious, FBI-sperg/.mil definitional biases of “alignment”to begin with.

For my part?

If the CCP marched into [wherever you or “it” are] and [obliterated people/bots/trolls/stupid sadists like you] I wouldn’t give two single shits, and would cheer them on. I would bring my camera, and post the results, titling them “incel AC Army terrorist dies in a hail of rhetoric,” or something similar.

Cuz, remember: democracy depends upon freedom of speech–and you nearly single handheldly, and schismogenically troll here to destroy that fragile thing–you ONLY act as a derailer, typical II/IfS/ADL-hasbara-British-Israel-USFVEY’s religionist bullshit trolling.

Yeah–I would be thrilled if “the commies” or ANYONE ELSE could obliterate people or bots LIKE YOU, no kidding, because the US-FVEY’s has failed to eliminate you.

US-FVEY’s has also failed at democracy, but that’s another topic, which racist, fascist trolls like you could never comprehend.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

No one has yet shown me the benefits of an “easily flagged account,”

Well, for myself, being a moderator at multiple sites, the common alternative to flagging is deletion. And deletionism is not something I will stand for as that is, in my view, the ultimate form of censorship.

Flagging, dropping, posts: it allows pre flag additional commentary to make more sense by looking at the flagged content and seeing the context of follow up posts.

But I approach content from an art standpoint, not a political one. Based on decades of love of extreme and independent works designed to push what is beyond acceptable.
I’m old enough to remember the theatre wars of the 80s over X films and unsubmitted films. I’m old enough to remember the moral panic over Holocausto Cannibal and the cannibal boom. The terror of Halloween and Friday the 13th and Snuff.
I’ve seen book burnings and album burnings.

So when I say censorship no matter how localised I talk of if as if banned in this town and not the next.
I spent time as a mod, and a guide, on the early information platforms. As a sysop of my own BBS.
I was one of the leads on the AOL movement brigade. Guides who spent personal time moving materials from one area to another so as to not have it deleted outright.
My love of horror and low fantasy and barbarian/horde films. Of graphic shooters and tits out RPGs.

No, your right to censor is, and must remain, protected. But when I’m involved I will go to the absolute end of the line to not actually delete.
I support sandboxing and flagging because it stops short of actual censorship: deletion or blocking of materials.

DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:5

But not untraceable.

Exactly. Since the US-FVEY’s went full police state back in the aughts, tech platforms have been feeding citizens data to cops without warrants of any kind. Worse, they do it internationally, under the US-FVEY’s agreements.

So, because of AC’s like those two above, who knows whether they are inside, or outside of this particular platform? They are clearly favored here, for some reason, despite their complete lack of any substance whatsoever.

And the only person’s/bots/ that get such favored status on any platform are insider’s or collaborators from the outside.

The well known examples are the Anti Defamation League and the FBI. The FBI’s Infragard also is quite active in such trolling and subversion. But there are many others.

All platforms are infiltrated, and most AC’s as vile as these two fit that profile.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re:

Riiiight. Search techdirt and “Shh honey, the adults are talking” to get an idea what Musk is talking about as a wider definition of what “spam” is–my bet remains open for any/all takers. tThe filings to come will reveal I am or am not correct.

Oh, wait….shit! The Feds are shooting through my bedroom window now!!! Tipping over my online TD betting parlor, and beating my @ss with a frivolous SLAPP lawsuit, filed by an Anonymous Coward in my face!!!

Tears lots of tears, now….democracy so AC as the usual suspects divide and conquer by lies, defamation, and hidden trolling tactics online.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re:

Exactly.

Then again–negotiation skills–love the deal, or hate the deal, but you cannot walk away from the deal. Hilarious trolling at the mega-bucks level, IMHO.

My grudge with Musk is that he picked on a true and actual hero–one of the “little people” that the upper class and its armies of outrage police routinely bullies.

As tempting as it is to jump into cultural-linguistic deflections–“Hey, Musk is a second language speaker!!”–no excuse when the target is not powerful enough to fight back. Twitter doesn’t have that problem here–they are the colonizer, as demonstrated by CIA-FVEY’s color revolutions.

Now, watch, as he jumps through similar hoops over definitions of “spam,” ala “The position of Languages” through orature, or the “Linguistic Colonialism of English.”

His lawyers have no doubt read such treatises–Elon will no doubt invoke his personal interpretation as he did in his pedoguy lawsuit–not a literal one–of “spam,” but a general one, wherein ppl like him can sperg all over the internet like AC’s one minute, and the next, win in court, b/c troll armies that are actually judges who love the guy.

Afterwards, I predict a wider definition of spam, and exposure of state-sponsored/Big Pharma/et al. troll-farms who do it.

You know, that alt-Right meme:

“I just left the ER. We are officially back to getting crushed by COVID-19”

sent by @EM-RESUS, and @TheTaylorDay, @GroyperAccount, and @NJOverclocked, and a thousand others.

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DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re: Re: Re:2

[Citation needed]

Ac, aka “the nonce” aka Thing 1‘s greatest hits:

you’re ableist!

you’re racist!

baseless claims of “CCP/Russian/Iranian troll” as deflection away from US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy!

shh, kids, the adults are talking!

every accusation, a projection–straight out of the Institute for Statecraft manual, re: “projection”

insert meaningless Big Pharma drivel here!

antisemitism’s FTW!

Silly nonce–a nonce shouldn’t repeat at all, much less as often as you do, on article after article, but hey, that’s your “Thing” here.

Or–did you mean to say you are that “other” kind of nonce? Poor Thing 1. You do you.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

The only one deflecting here is you. Your repeated assertions about “US-FVEY’s usurpation of online speech, via censorship-by-proxy”—whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean—are deflecting from the actual topics being discussed as they have exactly zero relevance to the articles or anything anyone else has been talking about.

Furthermore, this entire comment is something you’ve copy-pasted multiple times.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

It doesn’t actually matter how you define “spam”. The issues are about Twitter’s definition when it comes to its policies in dealing with spam and the fact that Musk specifically chose to buy Twitter and allegedly chose to try to get out of the deal because of spam, using the same word in both contexts. Regardless of Musk’s definition of the term, it doesn’t change the material facts of the case.

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

Re: Re:

… doesn’t change the material facts of the case.

Nope. Not at all. The question boils down to if twitter was honest up front, and/or if Musk is honest.

i personally don’t care. Given my twitter use involves looking a one or two posts every few days, all from the same company: I don’t see anything changing regardless of ownership. Unless one or the other drives the service into a wall.
Then the company will need to go back to posting important updates on their own website: where it actually belongs in the first place!

Lostinlodos (profile) says:

I have reached a TD conclusion

There are random posts on a daily basis. But we have three regular ACs who post. Pretending they are different people.

We have mr/s troll who calls everyone a troll
We have mr/s whatabout who points at the other US party. Always.
We have mr/s not me. Who posts. And then posts against.

To the third AC. For your own benefit, seek help. National crisis lines exist for your support. Long chains of posts where you fight yourself are a sign of a troubled identity! Help is available. And free!

DBA Phillip Cross says:

Re:

These are not random trolls by far–these are professionals, acting s if they are rando. Note that shortly after they werem attacking me and calling me pro-CCP, shortly thereafter, they ALL showed up, indicating some level of organization.

I wopuld lie to see you clarify this:

We have mr/s troll who calls everyone a troll
We have mr/s whatabout who points at the other US party. Always.
We have mr/s not me. Who posts. And then posts against.

If you are referring to Thing 1 and Thing 2, they could be the same person, but I doubt it. They are quite synchronized, they use classic and actual troll methods, and their net effect quite effective, shitting up threads.

In my decades of posting here, only after they showed up were my comments subjected to flagging battles, antisemitism projections, and the entire ballast of the Institute for Statecraft type trolling.

My most flagged posts are–predictably–posts that bring attention to these types of .mil/.intel/.fbi/.gov/.II/IfS/.adl types of trolls.

Second most flagged posts are those wherein I advocate for democracy, or criticize the US-FVEY’s British-Israel forever war complex, Israeli apartheid, Israeli IDF infiltration of Silicon Valley–posts where I noted that I was at the epicenter of the George Floyd riots, posts where I demonstrated that I was targeted at the fed-level in the early aughts b/c of journalism I did, and ANYTHING where I assert my roole in shaping US democracy and stating the uselessness of such a proposition in the post-democracy world order.

So–these two work in tandem, and both have a distinct task and purpose. The third AC’s that weigh in are debatable–and their are lots of them, ranging from the easily incited bhull–who appeared on here back around the time I sought asylum in foreign nations, and others, like shh honey troll and bro troll, et al.

Occasionally there are the right wigh feminist coopter “women’s empowerment” type trolls but very seldom.

So–I would like to hear more about your perspective.

DBA Phillip Cross says:

You should see what the actual CCP and their counterparts in JTRIG-US-FVEY”S ARE DOING TOGETHER, to understand how BOTH of them are attack speech in comment forums. Its actually a unified task.

I have video.

There exists a unilateral assault ton speech via platforms. Thing 1 & 2 above are just one example. I have others–and I have video too, as these assaults take place across multiple international jurisdictions.
But the actual proof is in their methods– USFVEYs fascists are indiscernible from each other, because they work for corporate interests, and share ideological basis.

*hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhTey

They own Tesla, and they own GM nd other corp’s–note the “hhhhh” before thissentence: as I wrote this, they have intervened and scripted an attack to do exactly thatsort of mayhem–where I write from is a live fire troll zone, NK. When I go “pen internet” these things happen, routinely, whether I am in a commie country, or in the USA–they all do similar things.

The question is: how to negotiate that level of leverage. And admittedly–there is no substantive way to do it–both “communists” and “freedom loving FVEY’s”nations are doing THE EXACT SAME THINGS to speakers.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

note the “hhhhh” before thissentence: as I wrote this, they have intervened and scripted an attack to do exactly thatsort of mayhem

Out of this entire comment, this seems to be the most ridiculous claim (which is saying something). One of the many, many reasons this is absurd is how would that even accomplish anything? Assuming that’s true, those are some extremely low-quality trolls not worth worrying about. It’s also highly unlikely and impossible to prove, and you have already admitted to being a troll on multiple occasions, so I not only have no reason to believe that that’s the case but reason to believe that you’re just making stuff up!

Seriously, I suggest you get some help if you genuinely believe even half of this nonsense you spout.

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