Yet Another Study Shows You Can Compete With Piracy

from the more-convenience,-availiability,-and-better-pricing dept

We’ve been saying it for years, and plenty of past studies have supported the assertion as well, but yet another report — this time based on a survey in Denmark — shows that those who regularly download unauthorized works online would actually prefer to use legal services, but are frustrated by the lack of convenience, choice and availability. The survey results did not directly have them complain about price, but when asked what would reduce infringement, price was a major variable. In other words: offer a reasonable service that is convenient, useful, not limited and which is reasonably priced, and you’ll convince a lot of people that it’s more worthwhile than infringement. We’ve certainly seen this in some areas already, but truly convenient and reasonably priced services are still hard to find for the most part. It would be great to see more competition and more innovation in that space — and reports like this suggest it would actually be good for everyone — including the copyright holders. Oh, and for the record, this report (also like tons before) show that those who infringe also tend to buy plenty of content as well.

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Comments on “Yet Another Study Shows You Can Compete With Piracy”

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MrWilson says:

Re: Re:

“The real issue is overdone expectations.”

That’s just a negative term for “consumer demand,” you know, the market force that drives commerce and creates jobs. God forbid you try to meet your customers’ expectations in exchange for a fair price.

When there’s minimal overhead cost to storage and distribution for infinitely reproducible media, and many copyright infringers have proven how cheaply, efficiently, and easily it can be done, any talk of consumer demand being “overdone expectations” just proves that the people in charge of the media companies need to step aside or at least start listening to more tech-savvy and innovative people for their business models.

Machin Shin (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“The real issue is overdone expectations.”

I’m sorry, but I don’t think that is expecting all that much. If a kid in his basement can get me DVD quality download of a movie before I can even buy the DVD then how is it you claim it is impossible for movie studios to do? Are you saying that kid is better equipped, smarter, more resources? What makes this so freaking hard?

What we expect of them is not impossible, we know this because other people already offer it that way. So quit pretending it would be such a huge burden on the movie studios.

Ninja (profile) says:

Re: Re:

You know, there’s this small, dirty bar where they make the best parmegiana (breaded steak covered on mozzarella and tomato sauce) I’ve tasted in a while. Sure I can make it at home if I actually put enough effort and it’ll certainly be at least cleaner (and in a better environment) but I always go there. Great food, awesome customer experience (the employees are polite and caring). I’d pay double for that steak. When I first went to the place I expected nothing more than some rubber meat with tasteless rice. They surprised me. But I digress.

MAFIAA’s customers aren’t expecting that much (and actually they’ve grown accustomed to expect very little from the MAFIAA recently). They aren’t expecting more that CAN and SHOULD be provided. If the pirates can provide you with quality content, easily and readily available, why can’t you set up a service that does it?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

We want things that are both technically feasible and well within the real of reason. Simple things like removing region locks, removing or at least scaling back DRM and no release windows.

Lower prices would be nice too, of course, but, honestly, just fixing the problems intentionally created by the studios (DRM, etc.) would be more than enough to get people to buy again.

art guerrilla (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

i have NEVER, repeat NEVER ‘pirated’ ANYTHING (um, let us put in the qualifier ‘knowingly’), and used to be quite the fuckwad about s/w pirating to anyone/everyone who would listen; but i have come to DESPISE Big Media and their like-minded evil minions of doom…
basically ANYTHING
other than the stupid Dish network which i would cancel in a heartbeat if SWMBO would allow it…

(IF i can avoid Big Media: sometimes when SWMBO wants to see the latest chick flick, or take the grandbrats to the latest disney marketing opportunity, etc, what can you do ?)

otherwise, i got a couple hundred CD’s of legal music that i listen to; i got (*really* surprised The They ™ aren’t angling to shut them down); and i got any of a million other things to do other than sit staring at the movin’ pitchers…
FOAD, Big Media, your exclusionary gatekeeping days are over : not only can i live without your Big Media crap, i can live BETTER without it!
art guerrilla
aka ann archy

The Modern Age says:

Re: View from afar.

The real issue is overdone expectations.

Agree fully.

The most horrendously overdone expectation is that the world could stay like it was way back in 1952.

But guess what? It’s 2012, not 1952 (that would be 60 years later for those too mentally old and tired to do the math in your head).

Modern people fixed all the problems you raised that existed way back in 1952 during the last SIXTY years.

Do you have any valid current excuses or just more obsolete arguments from previous centuries ?

p.s.: Look out – there ‘s a Red under your bed!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

I can buy a video game on Steam for 20$ that will give me >100 hours of entertainment. Or I can pay 29.99$ for a blue ray for 2 hours of entertainment.

choices choices

But really in this day and age where it is possible to give everyone in the world cheap, restriction free access to content instantly are those expectations really overdone? It’s all possible the only thing stopping it is businesses that are scared of change.

drew (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“Yup, they want it now, they want it cheap, and they want to get everything in the world wherever they are immediately as soon as it is being produced”

And all of these things are immediately possible and would result in millions of new dollars rolling your way.

How is wanting to pay for something that you can get for free an OVERDONE expectation?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

You work in a country that has a consumer driven economy. It’s not consumers who have the overdone expectations but instead the very companies who should be serving them. To try and destroy the internet because you don’t like it is an overdone expectation. To keep whining that people don’t buy CD’s and DVD’s while not offering them the product they want in the format, and way that they want it is overdone expectations.

In a consumer driven economy you cater to what the consumer wants to get your paid. The real issue is in fact people like you.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Unreasonable expectations? These are the founding premises of capitalist competition.

Copyright is an anomally. In a free market everyone can compete to bring products and the one who gives what people want, who hunts down their expectations and realizes them best, is the one who makes the money.

Copyright interferes with this process.

In this day and age, it intereferes with it much more than it needs to, and often in a manner that indicates that it’s not incidental.

IP priviledges have never been intended by any reasonable or just minded person to be a means of making one’s business model and choices immune to market forces like customer preference, and the technological environment.

It’s not ok to use these priviledges to hold back progress generally, or to disadvantage consumers by being able to resist meeting their wants and constructing immunity from market forces, simply because you can aggressively prevent competition by weilding a monopoly.

It’s not in society’s interests to actually allow this kind of behaviour, much less to encourage it.

Either capitalism is based on unreasonable expectations, or the customers are right to expect the possible.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Hilarious. When other people want to pay for legal content but can’t, you blame them for living in a country that isn’t America. Then you blame them for not giving you their money, because you refuse to sell your content to them.

I’m surprised that IP maximists like you haven’t been accused on the basis of intolerance, but then I remember your deep pockets and coffers feed the government.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“The real issue is overdone expectations.”

Yeah the cartels seem to think they have the right to control the content after they sell it to you, and should be able to keep getting paid because you paid for the DVD and now want to watch it on your iThingy.

Maybe if they stopped spending all of that money on trying to keep control, and instead spent it on an easy to use platform they could be making money…

Aurelius says:

Re: Re:

look at it this way: there used to be artificial barriers, mainly in distribution, because of primitive technology

that’s gone now, and so is your protected place where you get paid, not because your content is necessarily any good, but because you were on the inside of the distribution game

now, with quasi perfect competition, we see who has the real mettle and who can use their content in ways that people like to spend money on

only alternative: outlaw computers and any form of networks

good luck with than!

Anonymous Coward says:

Go, Go, Gadget Piracy! Yeah, Piracy!! Can’t wait ’til your next puff piece about our Pirate Mike, Kim Dotcom! All hail the Pirate King! We would prefer to spend our money on the content providers, but since they don’t provide every single thing we want in exactly the way we want it at exactly the same time as we want it, we will violate their fucking rights! Fuck them, those fucking assholes!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

You’re right, Timmy K. You’re the good guys. Fuck artists! Yes, Pirate Kim! Fuck artists! Yes, Pirate Kim! Anyone other than the artist should be allowed to make money from the artists’ hard work! Why reward a job well done with our hard earned dollars? It’s easy to copy their work, so it’s OK to do so! I read that on Techdirt! Raping artists, one post at a time.

Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Re:

I got called a meanie earlier today for stating that someone was wrong about something. And that was someone much more reasonable than the AC you’re replying to. I easily see him calling people Hitler. Heck, we had one in that Megaupload/DOJ article say Mike was talking about a child the other day being silenced and that it was a crap move and a stunt, yet the entire thing leading up to that was the same AC trying to spin Megaupload’s situation into “you WOULDN’T stop child porn?!?!”

These people are ridiculous and they know their positions are untenable, which is why when questioned about said positions they quickly resort to such antics. They have no leg to stand on and their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5 Childish Trolls

“These people are ridiculous and they know their positions are untenable, which is why when questioned about said positions they quickly resort to such antics. They have no leg to stand on and their hypocrisy knows no bounds.”

Very well said and oh so true. It’s why you see trolls, like the one were seeing here, switch over to a slightly different tactic than usual. If they can’t come up with a tenable argument, they instead prevent all others from doing so by spamming childish nonsense in an attempt to derail every single thread. People need to understand that replying to his type is pointless, mark their posts using the report button, and move on. Replying only empowers and encourages them. Note that there are pro-copyright people out there perfectly capable of having a really good, reasoned discussion and I totally respect them. There was a completely civil discussion on Techdirt just the other day in fact and it was a marvel to behold. I try not to delve to extremely into one side or another though. My preference is that we all work together to find equitable solutions. That way we all win no matter what side we’re on. The “there can be only one” attitude is a silly, self imposed limitation that doesn’t belong here, much like childish trolls who throw tantrums by acting worse than my nine year old.

MrWilson says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

You’re at about 12 on the 10 point Orwellian scale of doublespeak.

“Think of the artists!” “Fuck the artists if they want their fair share of the profits…They should have negotiated better contracts. There’s nothing wrong with Hollywood Accounting.”

“It’s the law!” “We have no problem changing the laws via our lobbyists and unethical influence on politicians for our own profit. If consumers want representation in Congress, they can pay for it also.”

I’ll ask once again. If you care about artists and about justice, where is your support for legislation to end unethical Hollywood accounting practices?

If you support law and justice, where is your support for corporate money being removed from the political system?

MrWilson says:

Re: Re: Re:

This is a maximalist shill. He’d prefer you not download and buy twice or three times. In fact, buy once for every time you experience your media of choice. Send checks when you get songs stuck in your head. Turn yourself in to your local law enforcement agency when you find yourself relating the plot of a movie to a friend who hasn’t seen it yet. Keep working your day job so you can earn enough to keep buying media so the studio execs can “lose” record amounts of money on sales record-breaking blockbuster hits.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I’ll rape you with my broad brush if you don’t like it! Now go make content at your time and expense so me and my friend Pirate Kim can take it from you without recompense. You’ll make our content for free and you’ll like it! If you try and stop us, I’ll put out the Constitution!!

Machin Shin (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

You know you just look like a moron ranting about “evil pirates” right? Watching you is about like watching a crazy drunk babbling while filling sand bags to try and keep back the tide.

Hate to break it to you. No matter how much you yell and scream and throw fits, piracy is not going to stop. If you actually take the time to read and understand what people here are saying you will realize we are not saying piracy is right. We are offering a suggestion on how to deal with it in a manner that would actually help.

Of course I’m happy to sit back in my lawn chair and laugh at you filling your sand bags and ranting. It does not bother me any.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Bizarre. I love the fact that in a post in which we explain how the industry and creators can *STOP PIRACY* and *MAKE MORE MONEY* we’re accused of supporting piracy and wanting to fuck over artists.

There are times when I think that the regular crew of critics here have absolutely no critical reading skills. They’ve built this strawman in their head about what we say and they respond to that rather than anything actually stated. It’s scary how delusional they are.

Cory of PC (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Wow… just, wow. Really, do we need to comment on this? I’m just lost on words to describe how inhuman this is. This… wow.

I give. I can’t come up with anything. There’s nothing that could save this wo/man. Good luck to whoever you are, the world’s a cruel place. You’re on your own and we’re not going to help you… at all.

Anonymous Coward says:

You know, I find it oddly funny that the IP maximist trolls show up regularly here. Obviously it’s too hard to earn money honestly or they wouldn’t be here.

When you get articles like this that show where the real truth is, suddenly it’s all name calling and blaming the site owner for being what he is not.

One thing about it Mike, you’re making headway and they are scared absolutely silly or they would not be here.

Good job!

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

You have a point. Recently someone going by the name Phil has been complaining that Techdirt screws over artists and he runs a recording studio. He and googlypants/hurricane head apparently run Lowery’s Trichordist blog and derail Techdirt threads with them.

Oddly enough, they complain that they’re not making money – but we have no idea who they are, so whoever’s pirating their stuff (IF, that is, anyone is pirating their stuff to begin with), it’s not us. And instead of trying to make money they think it’s a far better use of time coming to sites like Techdirt and calling everyone thieves.

IP maximists have extremely bizarre senses of priority by most people’s standards.

Anonymous Coward says:

this is the RIAA, MAFIAA, MPAA, IFPI and every other entertainment industry/group there is and we say you’re talking bollocks! we say that our opinions are right,that the services we offer are the best and we wont lose our control by doing what you useless wankers that call yourselves ‘paying customers’ say, so there!!

Anonymous Coward says:

I finally see the light...piracy is ba-od!

You know, I’m a consumer. I don’t pirate. So, when I see business put up BS restrictions that prevent me from buying things in the name of piracy; I get confused. To quote memeCats everywhere, “I haz cant spend moneyz?”

Now, when faced with that choice, I generally don’t pirate. I just spend my entertainment dollars on something else. When I pirate it’s generally to check something out (episode 1 etc before buying in).

I didn’t know understand why my actions were morally wrong until the Anonymous Coward mentioned rape. And then it dawned on me. My actions are wrong? I should just pirate everything.

Mission Accomplished.

Anonymous Coward says:

I’m less bothered by price and more by region-based availability… I can live without Hollywood movies, which do get to my country, and I can wait a bit for them to be released here, if I’m really interested in buying some of them. Not so much with stuff that’ll never get there – rarer movies, TV series & such. And yes, I do spend huge amounts of money importing physical media.

Release windows are evil. DVD/Blu-Ray region codes are evil. Artificially dividing the world is kinda against the whole “global success” stuff, isn’t it?

Anonymous Coward says:

Seriously, I can get it for free but:
The video quality tends to suck.
The sound quality tends to suck.
It’s in a crappy container (AVI anyone or PDF?)

So yes, I have come to believe in the quality of what the *AA organizations can produce.

What bugs me and my Fist Full of Dollars is that I can’t buy/pay for what ever it is. Sure the point can be made that maybe I’m just not patient, but in most cases, what I want is from my childhood and I want that nostalgic moment. After all, I’m in to my 50’s so it’s not like I’m demanding to get it the day after it was produced. (It’d be nice.)

The Entertainment industry could make money hand over fist MORE than they are now. Most people want to pay for the content they want. It is possible to stamp out most piracy but it takes effort to meet the customers demands.
Obviously, try as the *AA’s want, this is not a one way street. Why they continue to make themselves looks stupid is difficult to understand. I’m ok with them looking greedy, just confuses me why they want to be seen as stupid.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Dude have you watched Robocop (TV Series 1994 – 1994)?

I just pirated that, wow! it is crappy but somehow I enjoyed, the special effects made me laugh, that 80’s feeling was so nostalgic and all the wrongs in the arguments used I can see it clearly today, I can see why it never got more episodes made, it was all wrong from an story point of view, although well done for the time.

Tremors (TV Series 2003 – 2003)

Great Series, I enjoy watching that one, although I can’t find anywhere that sells it where I live.

Earth 2 (TV Series 1994 – 1995)
Another old one that I like, that is nowhere to be found except on the pirate channel.

Not to mention MacGyver,

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987)
Two Stupid Dogs

Ok, I am old too.

sevenof9fl (profile) says:

I hate stupidity

I’m either

1. getting smarter as I get older;
2. more stupid as I get older;
3. less patient as I get older;
4. accepting of less BS as I get older;
5. All of the above in varying degrees.

I want to stream content online. I will pay to stream content online. I do have an ethics problem with torrenting.

Yet, Hollywierd, the MPAA, the RIAA and all the other alphabet soup agencies contrive every excuse in the book to prevent taking my money.

I remember, being an old broad, how many recording artists were robbed by their labels and how badly James Garner was treated over supposed “zero” profits from years of The Rockford Files, so don’t tell me that to some extent that does still not go on.

The only thing streaming and direct artists sales does to the MPAA and RIAA is keep money out of the hands of the overpaid middlemen and both of those entities are fighting tooth and nail to keep their ludicrous percentages.

Well, we are not stupid; Mike Masnick is not stupid, and I may not torrent now but if the idiots at the MPAA don’t turn their thinking around, The Pirate Bay may just become my new best friend.

I’m sick and tired of hunting and pecking to find the content I want at a price point that isn’t ludicrous without being held hostage to cable tv, for which there is zero competition in my area.

And don’t even mention mailing disks to me: I’m really “over” that.

Maybe there’s an upside to all this: if they put me in jail for Pirating, maybe I can get my medical taken care of.

AC Cobra says:

What I want

I have recorded a fair bit of music off the stream of pandora. So it is listenable but not the greatest fidelity. I often find a song I like and wish to purchase, and I will if:

– the purchased download is in FLAC, WAV or other full fidelity format. I’m loath to pay good money for mp3/320 format, as I consider the quality substandard.

-I know that the bulk of the purchase will go to the artist. I refuse on principle to support major record labels, because of their long history of unethical and sometimes practically criminal behavior. Buying direct from the artists website is preferable but services like iTunes or beat port will do too.

Anonymous Coward says:

A few translated bits from, (magazine for IT engineers in Denmark) To add a little to the story:
“11% of the people in the survey claimed to have watched US TV-shows before they reached danish television…”
That is pretty telling about how people feel about this kind of windowing content.
“Netflix has announced that it will launch its service in Denmark 2012. That … will probably get the danish distributors woken up for competition.”
Netflix will be the first real legal video-streaming service in Denmark as soon as it launches (There are ISP-bundled film for rent and so on, but nothing even remotely close to a reasonably good service).

The local antipiracy group “Rettighedsalliancen” talks about what is going on in an interview on of Maria Fredenslund, written by Gregers Lohse:

“All the films on Netflix and are cleared for the US market but not the danish. When people use an abroad service they know they are cheating the danish distributers and I think that is wrong. (red: Yes the ambiguity is there in danish too.)”
A ridiculous argument similar to: “If you are using Asics shoes, you know you are not paying Adidas and I think that
is wrong.”
Using Netflix from Denmark is not illegal even as it stand at the moment…

“…If a service like Netflix and is wanted in Denmark, people should use the the existing alternatives.”
Netflix will be the first real legal video-streaming service of its kind in Denmark as soon as it launches. This argument is the straight up dishonest as she acknowledges the non-existance in the next question. (There are ISP-bundled pay per view or for rent and so on, but nothing even remotely close to a reasonably good subscription service).

PaulT (profile) says:

It’s funny watching the usual suspect(s) having a meltdown with ridiculous analogies and half-assed attacks again. The study in question is a clear indication of what *should* be standard practice in any industry – give customers what they wish to buy in the way they wish to buy it. Yet, any attempt to get this across is met with outright hostility.

The simple fact is that these idiots assume that there’s only 2 optons – buy or “pirate”. That at least one other option (spend your money elsewhere) still exists even if the option of piracy is removed (impossible) seems to escape them. I’m happy spending my money on legal product, I just wish that the morons in charge of this industry would accept my money rather than force me to look for alternatives.

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