Is The Six Strikes Plan Being Delayed Because ISPs Are Pushing Back Against Hollywood Demands?
from the seems-possible dept
As you probably know, last year, the big ISPs agreed to a six strikes plan (really five strikes), after the White House pressured the ISPs to cave to Hollywood’s interests. What many of us noticed, of course, is that this backroom deal left the public out of the equation, which was obvious from the fact that it actually takes away some of the public’s rights — for example, by curtailing the definition of the public domain.
Earlier this year, the RIAA said that the program would finally kick off in July. There were some rumors of delays, and then a bunch of sites (including us) got confused about the actual start date. There have been multiple reports now saying that it will actually roll out later in the fall.
Of course, this has a lot of people wondering just what the delay is about. There might be a clue in a piece over at The Daily Dot, where they say that the director of the Center for Copyright Information (CCI), Jill Lesser, has hinted strongly that the ISPs disagree with some RIAA/MPAA demands:
Jill Lesser, Executive Director of the Center for Copyright Information, told the Daily Dot that the repeated delays were because the coalition wanted an independent review from the American Arbitration Association.
She hinted that disagreement between the ISPs or the lobbying groups might have held up the process. Responding to a question about the delay, she wrote “members are all very involved in internal planning and review of the alert system, which has been and will continue to be a collaborative process.”
Of course, there’s one big thing that happened between when the agreement was made and now: the huge public reaction to SOPA. After that, the EFF rightly called for scrapping the backroom deal and starting a new negotiation that actually involved the public. That recommendation was ignored by Hollywood, of course, but the news of some internal fighting hopefully means that the ISPs are asserting themselves a bit more strongly against excessive RIAA/MPAA demands. Of course, once again, this is why it would be nicer if this debate were in public, rather than hidden behind closed doors.
Filed Under: hollywood, isp, jill lessig, six strikes, sopa
Companies: cci, eff, mpaa, riaa
Comments on “Is The Six Strikes Plan Being Delayed Because ISPs Are Pushing Back Against Hollywood Demands?”
nope
its cause the hairy monkeys have already hidden themselves and thus they have nothing to strike them with
vpns , encryption etc….
isps have long now been patseys to the man
time we all started being the man instead
i like being the man myself
catch me if you can
Re: nope
Never will catch up.Always be a solution to getting round the MAFIAA Assholes and their Stooges.
When it goes in to effect I will start a business.
Where my sole purpose is to provide and scare in to buying protection from the ISP and the MPAA. I will set them up with good solid security against the bs. I will run a Internet mafia to protect people against the legal totalitarians.
Re: When it goes in to effect I will start a business.
That is the primary point against increased enforcement: It is easy to make a system with no privacy, but it is a lot easier to circumvent that system on the internet!
For politicians with no understanding about the works of the internet, they will focus on part 1 and when the effect of part 1 is 10% of what they expected, they are perplexed and want 9 new pieces of strenghtened survailance to make up for the “promises” to a particular “the industry”.
Horizontal price fixing
Maybe the ISPs are betting on whether Attorney-General Holder will still be in office?
An agreement among ?competitive? ISPs to fix prices for consumers at $35 might not fare so well under a new admininistration.
AN ANTITRUST PRIMER FOR FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL
Thirty-five dollars. Fixed price.
Re: Horizontal price fixing
Why are they getting away with charging someone to defend themselves against accusations in the first place?
Re: Re: Horizontal price fixing
Because the Obama admininstration’s Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator, Ms. Victoria Espinel, thinks that coordinating “competitive” ISPs on a $35 price is just right?
?
( Go look up the history on the Socony-Vacuum Oil Co. )
Re: Horizontal price fixing
“Maybe the ISPs are betting on whether Attorney-General Holder will still be in office?”
I was thinking something similar. If they wait until after the election, the president may not be in office. At which point all pressure to follow through with this agreement goes away.
With the treat of a SOPA like public revolt against 6 strikes come other issues. The possibility that people will start calling for an end to the local telecom monopolies becomes extremely high. Most of the social media revolts thus far have had two thing in common, pushing back against wrong doing, and pushing against entrenched monopolies.
Re: Re: Horizontal price fixing
Although, that’s one of the interesting facets of the ?Madison Oil? case, United States v. Socony-Vaccum: Mr Roosevelt was president both when his administration ?prompted the cartel?, and also when his administration prosecuted the cartel executives.
In ?The Story of United States v. Socony-Vacuum: Hot Oil and Antitrust in the Two New Deals?, Daniel A. Crane explains:
In the Obama administration, the interpersonal dynamics are certainly different than they were in the Roosevelt administration: The people are not same.
I personally have a hard time believing that Ms. Espinel would push an agreement to fix a $35 price without Attorney-General Holder’s okay.
Is Mr Holder planning to stay on into a potential second Obama administration?
Well this plan may be in the process of a delay, but I can tell you that Bright House, in my home state of Indiana, has already issued two notices against my account, and this was as of the 1-3 weeks of June.
Six (Five) Strikes
Mike, and all —
I’m currently tied to Verizon as my wireless internet provider (I don’t have a land line) and I’ve had several occasions recently to speak to a customer service representative or supervisor. Whenever I think about it, I’ll ask what they know about the implementation of the Six Strikes policy, and not a single one of them has heard a thing.
Late in June, I did have a supervisor tell me that it was not unusual for the company to spring policy changes on the customer service department with little warning.
I spoke to someone on July 10, and that rep hadn’t heard anything either.
So, if nothing else, the front line at one of the committed participants of the CCI’s Six Strikes effort is in the dark as much as any of us.
— Daniel
And who gets to run the virtual hell’s angels? 🙂
Heh - didn't think it through did ya???
Let the false accusations commence …
What is a falsely accused individual to do when there is no due process?
This will have an affect upon the percentage of customers who choose to pay their bills online, and it will affect the bottom line of those corporations who are exposed.
Re: Heh - didn't think it through did ya???
CCI is also most likely still pushing to have customers they claim downloaded infringing material get their connections throttled.
I’m pretty sure there will be massive lawsuits if CCI gets what they really want. Then they will have to give up on arbitration and deal with a real court who will have to be informed which failed IP address gathering firm they are using.
Demanding consumers have to pay $35 to challenge an outside companies claims that are resulting in degraded service and limiting the “allowed” answers might be stacking the deck.
Re: Heh - didn't think it through did ya???
“What is a falsely accused individual to do when there is no due process?”
File suit under the theory that the White House forced this down the throats of the ISP’s and it is an end run around the constitution.
I have a feeling ISP’s will back out when they figure out the RIAA, MPAA ect wants to go after every user.
To add to my last comment actually that debate you had the guy said the IPS told him over 70 percent of traffic was infringing. Guess what that means the ISP would need to harass 70 percent of its userbase.
Actually, I can’t help but think that there is a lot of pressure right now to define methods of obtaining content as a “strike”. That would be things like file lockers, which are currently “on the run” from pressures both on the legal and financial side.
There have been a number of huge shifts here, including Paypal dumping many of them under pressure from the Adult industry, as well as arrests of site operators including one in Italy this week (a unique story, because he was arrested for Fiscal fraud as well as copyright violations).
Since the start of the discussion of the strikes system in the US, there has been dramatic shifts on the ground. I am sure that the **AAs don’t want to get caught with a policy that isn’t flexible enough to cover alternate means of obtaining and distributing pirated content.
The thing is I get the feeling if the RIAA, MPAA get their way most of the IPS’s will have to harass more than half their users.
I would guess the ISPs don’t want to be sued for any invasive policy, and the RIAA/MPAA won’t settle for anything besides an invasive policy.
Re: Re:
Invasive? I think if it’s a violation of the TOS, they’re within their rights. Deep packet inspection is almost universal and quite capable of zeroing in on suspect content.
Also, one of the biggest dogs is Comcast, owners of NBC/U- I wouldn’t expect help from them. Plus, all of the ISP’s are or want to play in the content delivery space. They have personal financial interest in tamping down infringement.
Re: Re: Re:
DPI is NOT being used in this plan, the accusations are gathered by an outside firm and robo submitted to the ISPs who are then supposed to take a series of actions. They refuse to name the outside firm, there was talk of it being one of the firms who have a checkered past in other courts around the world.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
You are wrong on DPI. It is essential to any graduated response program. Why would information gleaned from DPI not be used?
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
DPI slows down networks and decreases bandwidth. The US already has the slowest bandwidth in the western world. DPI is overkill and would be akin to the post office reading every piece of mail to make sure no one is doing anything illegal.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
It is essential to any despot.
FTFY
Why would dpi be used … because everyone is a criminal, that is why.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
If the ISPs are going to allow DtecNet to install DPI they will be sued out of business. To allow a 3rd party private company that much access to peoples communication still is a violating of the last 3 rights we have in the US.
For the 100th time….
The ISPs are NOT looking at what your downloading, any more than normal.
The accusations come from an unnamed 3rd party, thought to be DtecNet.
https://torrentfreak.com/u-s-anti-piracy-police-kept-secret-from-the-public-110811/
It is the same methodology used in the copyright trolling lawsuits sweeping the country. They join the swarm, record IP addresses, and then take action.
In this private enforcement agreement the IP addresses are divided by participating ISPs who then in turn just automatically pass on the “warning” to the person paying the bill. There are a tiny number of allow answers to the accusation, and if you feel it was generated in error you have to pay $35 to challenge, in arbitration where they never ever ever just side with the corporation who hired them over facts.
This lets them enjoy the same sort of terrorism the copyright trolls have without having to file a Federal Lawsuit to get the names to send the messages to. The ISPs keep records for CCI to see who has gotten to many notices, and they hold onto those for a while.
This is designed to be an automated system where they just submit a couple thousand IP addresses and notices are generated.
Depending on how many notices you have gotten they may or may not be taking actions like throttling your connection or blocking you connecting to the internet until you tick a box on a website.
Part if the ISP pushback seems to be tied to the fact that DtecNet aka MarkMonitor have a history of not even understanding how Bittorrent works and making ludicrous claims in studies. Maybe the ISPs want to make sure they are providing accurate accusations before pissing off their customer base.
https://torrentfreak.com/how-scary-is-the-us-six-strikes-anti-piracy-scheme-120605/
What happens to those who ignore all warnings?
This is an interesting question. Public information provides no answer but the CCI told TorrentFreak the following:
?The program is intended to educate consumers, taking them through a system that we believe will be successful for most consumers. If a subscriber were to receive 6 alerts, that user would be considered a subscriber the program is unable to reach.?
?If ISPs receive additional allegations of copyright infringement for that user, those notices will not generate alerts under the program,? a CCI spokesperson told us.
In other words, nothing will happen under the program. People who receive more than 6 warnings are removed from the system. They wont receive any further warnings or punishments and are allowed to continue using their Internet service as usual.
Who will be monitoring these copyright infringements?
While ISPs take part in the scheme, they are not the ones who will monitor subscribers? behaviors. The tracking will be done by a third party company such as DtecNet or PeerMedia. These companies collect IP-addresses from BitTorrent swarms and send their findings directly to the Internet providers.
Oh and if someone sues the RIAA, MPAA, or any of the ISPs there is an escape clause in the memo of understanding letting them bail on this BS. The board of this CCI is stocked with cartel members and ISPs bigwigs… it should be fun to see this entire waste of time go down the drain.
NO DPI, Yes they will record IP’s in Bittorrent swarms and send out alerts based on that flawed technology alone.
http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/
Seems like there is a whole bunch to sue them for once they start. This is an attempt to void the legal process and scare and punish based on the “eyewitness” reports of someone with cataracts. This is smoke and mirrors to show everyone how important this issue supposedly is.
I wonder if they’d taken the millions they dumped into this clusterfuck and developed a platform to sell things from that actually worked, if they could understand that the root of “piracy” is them spending so much time obsessed over someone not paying them for something that they have pissed off the consumers who would pay them if it wasn’t completely limited and screwing over the people who pay them more than the evil “pirates”.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
I look forward to receiving email notices from Nigeria.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
This has been done a few times actually.
And the targets are so terrified many of them overlook paying off a fee via cellphone or Western Union.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
DPI is being used today. Why on earth wouldn’t it be used under the six strikes program?
Regarding the no further action after the sixth strike, does this mean you connection gets stuck at dial-up speed? Not really much need fopr further action when it takes a month to download an HD movies I suppose.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
101 times…
DPI IS NOT A PART OF 6 STRIKES.
EVEN CCI says they are NOT USING DPI.
Because if the ISPs who use DPI were to begin monitoring consumers accounts to police copyrights the lawsuit would be huge and might topple them.
This “education” program costs them next to nothing, and avoids them having to file lawsuits to try and stop “piracy”. They at least remember that suing your customers is a really stupid thing to do.
If an ISP were to degrade service permanently on the basis of a nonvetted investigative technique that can and has been to be flawed, they would be hard pressed to deal with the lawsuits. A corporation taking punitive action based on accusation alone would be looked upon very poorly, and when they need the states to allow them to have right of ways and easements to stay in business getting the AG’s of those states interested in looking at what the hell they are doing is a very stupid thing.
ISPs enjoy coexisting with the content cartel, they are benefiting each other. They do not relish the idea of getting hung out to dry by the cartels when the shit hits the fan.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
arugh insert the word shown where needed.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
“DPI is being used today.”
This maybe a correct statement if referring to China, however AFAIK in the US it’s still illegal – unless you’re a double naught spy. Perhaps you might offer some clarification of your rather nebulous statement.
As I said some ISP said most of its traffic was infringing to the gentleman debating with Mike a while back. If that’s the case what are they going to do harass most of their users?
I do wonder anyone know what the ISP’s are getting out of this? If its not something great I’m not sure why they are agreeing.
Re: Re:
Don’t you think piracy dilutes demand for Verizon FIOS and Comcast on-demand products? I’m pretty sure they believe it. Why would a customer pay $2.99 to see it on FIOS when he could watch it for free on line?
Re: Re: Re:
Perhaps because the content is being overvalued on those services, according to the consumers?
Re: Re: Re: Re:
So the price justifies illegally downloading or streaming? Got it. Maybe consider doing without or not being such a cheap fuck.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Today I learned that stating the obvious is proof of copyright infringement.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Market decides, not the seller.
Why not lower the price to something palatable, add in convenience, and make more money?
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
You just made a true statement for, I bet, the first time in your life.
When the marginal cost of distributing something approaches zero making money depends on providing more value; quality, convenience, access, etc.
Being a monopolistic fuck who doesn’t understand economics justifies illegally downloading and streaming. Got it!
Re: Re:
Maybe after the election, they get an indictment from the grand jury?
Thirty-five motherfucking dollars.
What are the ISPs getting out of this?
I’m wondering this myself. It’s understandable with Comcast as mentioned above, but I wonder if there’s some kind of leverage that isn’t obvious for the others — some kind of implied threat of significant regulatory consequences for not “playing along,” or some such. The MPAA and RIAA influence a lot of folks in D.C., and obviously there’s no need to editorialize about that little problem here.
Re: What are the ISPs getting out of this?
Many of the ISPs that are signed up sell content from the cartels on their offerings.
Getting a favorable price for content that is in demand…
They get the big players, many of whom have their own content production wings in the large corporation, to do this then lean on the little ones to give in as well.
They are just sure this is going to work out just right, but then it seems the people at the ISPs have said hey wait a minute this sounds good on paper, now prove it is airtight. In the few areas where there is competition, being the ISP who isn’t involved with CCI is a selling point.
@#15 Yeah Verizon and Comcast probably really believe that.
I wonder...
If the six strikes plan is implemented, could we report the MAFIAA to their backbone provider as a violator, and get them kicked off the internet?
Re: I wonder...
No, because they are on the list of those with special privileges.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal that others.
Re: Re: I wonder...
Too bad, if you have too many strikes, you’re out. Famous baseball players get outs (learn to hit even better, dood), the MAFIAA gets punched in the face (learn2economy, old people), both are good to have.
Re: Re: Re: I wonder...
It is rather naive to think the elite ruling class would be subjected to any sort of “strikes” mechanism.
Support
You know, there were a lot of software businesses that were “supported” SOPA. I’m willing to bet this is a similar situation where the MPAA, the RIAA, and certain copyright organizations just haphazardly added names to the support list for this idea without consent of the ISP’s involved.
In 50 years, it will all be laughable.
The past wants to fight the future again. Gee, I wonder who will win in the end? It’s not like history could tell us.
Oh, dear…
(Sorry, I would have commented sooner, but on the way here I hit a rock and got a broken stone wheel on my Flinstonemobile. Have you tried to get a new stone wheel lately? It’s damned hard to do!)
The past fighting the future
Sounds like the CCI are bringing muskets to a laser gun battle. For every solution to combat “piracy” the users are 2 steps ahead.
isp
Why are the isp’s being police for Hollywood? Can’t hold a car manufacture responsible for someone getting in a wreck and killing someone! Or gun manufactures being help responsible for someone killing someone with a gun! If Hollywood wants this BS, then its up to them, NO ONE ELSE!!!!
Re: isp
Because half of the ISPs are members of one if not both of the cartels in other divisions.
Re: isp
“Why are the isp’s being police for Hollywood?”
Regulatory Capture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
dont the ISPs hold the trump cards? surely they must be able to decide who can and cannot use their networks. the best thing would be to not have any entertainment industries files available on the net. let them sell through high street shops only. they can keep control of their stuff then and not have any internet piracy to worry them
With all the “You must be a pirate taxes” out there, like on blank CDs, the record industry has been paid for my “alleged” pirating. So queue’em up good and often!
Not 1c more from me!
@6
waves
see you on the dark side of the nets….
If the ISP enforce this stupidity, ill get a VPN and believe me, casually seeding will not be the norm. Ill seed everything i can get my hands on. If i got to spend 15.00 more a month to get the ISP off my back, better believe ill make use of it.