Ericsson Recognizes That 'Piracy' Isn't The Problem, But A Symptom Of Failed Business Models

from the good-for-them dept

Just about a week ago, I stated:
The folks in the industry (and the politicians who support them) keep thinking that the problem is "piracy." And if they just got rid of these "freeloaders," the business model solves itself. That is, they look at infringement as the problem, and business model problems as the symptoms. They've got it backwards. The problem is the business model. The infringement is the symptom -- showing that they haven't yet adapted. If you look at the history of infringement, it's the same thing every time: it's always been a leading indicator of industry not adapting fast enough.
Apparently, I'm not the only one thinking that way. Rene Summer, Director of Government and Industry Relations at Ericsson, has more or less said the same thing:
"File-sharing is a symptom of a problem, rather than a problem in itself. This problem is the inadequate availability of legal, timely, competitively priced and wide-ranging choices of affordable digital-content offerings. Consumers also expect to be able to make decisions freely regarding when and how to consume the content of their choice. By clinging to outdated business methods such as windowing and territoriality, economic-rights holders are in fact creating the consumer behavior against which they so violently protest."
Is this the point where I whine about being ripped off? I'm trying to understand how that works...

More seriously, it's good that this concept is getting some traction. Once you realize that "piracy" is a symptom of an unsatisfied consumer base, you begin to recognize that it's often the leading indicator for innovation. That's because it shows you what consumers want, and satisfying the desires of consumers is where innovation comes from.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 7:49pm

    How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    Wait - is this the same "Ericsson" of "Sony-Ericsson"?

    If so, I imagine this guy will get his walking papers pretty damn quick.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    icon
    Prashanth (profile), Jul 1st, 2011 @ 8:59pm

    Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    Exactly. What an odd couple: the forward-thinking Ericsson, and Sony, the target of many of Ericsson's arguments here. Then again, aren't they supposed to be splitting soon anyway?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    identicon
    Paul, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 9:08pm

    Market Economy

    In a market driven economy the definition of success is satisfying the market. The MARKET rules, not the incompetents serving it!

    Piracy PROVES the content markets are currently UN-satisfied. New distribution models like Netflix are the future but are only scratching the surface. The true potential will only become clear once Netflix is no longer RESTRICTED to US only users!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 9:13pm

    Exactly what doez Ericsson have that can be pirated? Answer: nothing.

    Sort of a no brainer from there.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 9:41pm

    Re:

    You don't need to have pirateable material to understand the WHYs of "piracy".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 9:43pm

    Re: Re:

    Yes, but you can have a "who gives a crap" attitude about it and blame others because you aren't losing anything in the deal.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 10:10pm

    Re:

    And yet dozens of other companies with stakes in TV (and IPTV) are raising a fuss about Piracy...

    Or did you not even bother looking up Ericsson's business?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    icon
    fogbugzd (profile), Jul 1st, 2011 @ 10:13pm

    The statement is encouraging, but the industry and their bought-and-paid for stooges have an aircraft carrier's worth of momentum. One little ensign realizing they are on the wrong course will not make any difference if the big brass have convinced themselves they are on the right one.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 10:25pm

    Re:

    So, you don't actually have a counter-argument? Telling.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Jul 1st, 2011 @ 10:43pm

    Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    Wait - is this the same "Ericsson" of "Sony-Ericsson"?


    Yes, but different. Sony-Ericsson is a separate company that is (not surprisingly) a joint venture of the two companies. But it people at Sony Ericsson are not the bosses of folks at Ericsson.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 11:11pm

    Re: Re:

    What's the counter argument? It's hard to have this sort of discussion with someone who doesn't have any skin in the game. He doesn't have anything to lose, neither does his company. So piracy for them isn't an issue, so they can support it and look good to all the cool kids.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 1st, 2011 @ 11:16pm

    if it isn't available, you don't have it, but you will steal it by downloading it and not care, you are a freetard who doesn't want to pay for it

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jul 1st, 2011 @ 11:44pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    So you're saying that, because he's not directly involved, you'll ignore his arguments completely.

    Such a fun tack to take.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    icon
    Simple Mind (profile), Jul 1st, 2011 @ 11:50pm

    Re:

    What? Are they running so low on cash that they can't hire shills that have been through grammar school?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:07am

    "The statement is encouraging, but the industry and their bought-and-paid for stooges have an aircraft carrier's worth of momentum."

    Momentum is hard to stop. Societal momentum is doubly difficult to stop. Once people are patterned into a way of doing things it takes a generation to remove that patterning. No laws, warnings, or educational programs can change that.

    What you have in the content industry is a large amount of political momentum, and an expanding locked out system. It is locked out because it continues to press for laws to limit any competition. These laws continue to get narrower and narrower in scope. These laws lock out what the little room they have to maneuver. The political momentum is pushing this forward.

    Imagine 50,000 people with the same false belief that infringement is the root cause of all their problems. People who do not see that everything they are doing is causing their own demise. Now picture 50,000 lemmings ... who can't change course, who shout down anyone with a dissenting opinion, all rushing forward not noticing where they are headed.

    Enter the evil infringer. This is the customer who is always wrong in the eyes of the content industry. This is the consumer who is underserved. This is the 85% of people who said no matter what they would continue infringing. This is the average person fed up with any sort of new regulation.

    You have two momentums clashing, if you look at the bigger picture.

    One that is locked into its course because of a00 years of fear of competition. That will do anything to maintain its control.

    The other momentum, is a set of underserved customers who are becoming very upset at being spoken down to, and told every thing they want is wrong.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    also easily refuted: he's a human, he exists, he is there for a consumer.

    and therefore involved.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:24am

    Re: Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    Ericsson is a telecom hardware and equipment provider. Since when have telecoms been anything except pro-piracy and anti-regulation?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    Nicedoggy, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 1:43am

    The control freaks will be sad with the future.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    identicon
    Nicedoggy, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 2:03am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Is hard to discuss anything with someone that doesn't seem to realize others have interests too.

    We all have skin on the matter since IP laws are so intrusive and affect everybody.

    Go on keep thinking that only content producer have a stake, everybody else will just prove you wrong at every turn.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    identicon
    Businessman, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 2:35am

    Re: How soon until his bosses

    FYI.Ericsson is a 30B company... Sony Ericsson is a rather small joint venture of Ericsson w/ Sony; less than 1/30th of its size...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 5:00am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Can't come up with a good counter arguement and making excuses are you? Typical

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 5:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don't ignore his arguments completely. What I am saying is that because he has no skin in the game, it's easy to come down on the side of the cool kids, rather than having to take a position that might not be so popular because it would touch his business.

    If anything, Ericsson and other telecommunication equipment makes would have a vested interest in seeing the continued spread of piracy, as it is a boost for network traffic and drives demand for the products that they do sell.

    I think that Mike hit it exactly right, it appears that he he took a statement from one of the leaders of the "piracy is good" movement, and pretty much just repeated it word for word. I am not clear that it really adds anything.

    I would also point out that it isn't Ericsson as a company that "gets it", just a single employee.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 5:44am

    Re:

    The 85% are the reason that soon they will be enjoying garage bands and people who plunk at keyboards in their spare time.

    Remember: They pirate the content because it is popular, it isn't popular because it was pirated. Once you understand that basic fact, you realize that piracy is in the end very much self defeating. It's the strip mining of culture, such that there is nothing left to mine in future generations.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    icon
    harbingerofdoom (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:37am

    Re: Re: Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    regulatory capture, getting into the content business... sounds like the telecoms are nowhere near as pro piracy or anti regulation as you would like to make anyone think.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    identicon
    Ken, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    AC

    You are part of the extremism of the other side as Ericsson suggest and set up a virtual police state and regulate the Internet with an iron fist.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    icon
    Planespotter (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Please provide quotes for when Mike has ever said the words "piracy is good".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    icon
    Planespotter (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:52am

    Re:

    errr... if I could buy it I would, in the meantime I'll take a pirate copy and then buy it when it finally gets released.

    Why make me wait 6 months for a book when it's available in the US or make me pay twice as much for a movie because I have to buy from the Region 2 zone even though a digital download is region less?

    'kin morons these large corps are, they are their own worst enemy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    icon
    Planespotter (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:54am

    Re: Re:

    [Citations Needed]

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    identicon
    Rockin Ron, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 7:00am

    MP3

    Back around the last time the world as we know was going to end and it did, only it was our computers at risk and the Recording Industry, that year was 2000. In 2001 MP3.com was shut down shortly after the so-called owner sold MP3.com for 25 million, peanuts compared to f b 's 50bn. The music industry was crying about piracy and so they bought off MP3.com. Said it was a file sharing problem , well, Napster survived MP3.com did not. Now MP3's are going to be obsolete and according to Neil Young's site , In a Message From him he says there is new tech coming in 2012 and he says we have been deprived...http://neilyoung.com/messagepage.html

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    icon
    Planespotter (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 7:20am

    Re: MP3

    And once again we'll all be expected to pay again for things we already own.

    Well I won't be... I've bought them on vinyl, I moved to tape, I then bought the CD and finally the MP3. I have FLAC and other lossless versions I've "obtained" from other sources... so sorry artists that I love I won't be buying the albums again, not that this will affect you as the % you'll get from downloads will be so little that it will just about buy you a cup of coffee and a bagel.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 7:40am

    Re: Re: Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    "Since when have telecoms been anything except pro-piracy and anti-regulation?"

    It's always good to see the citation accompany the accusation - Bravo.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 7:45am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "... you can have a "who gives a crap" attitude about it ..."

    Sort of reflects your attitude doesn't it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    abd gum, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 7:50am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "[Citations Needed]"

    None needed when you have 'skin in the game'.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 8:02am

    Re: Re:

    *facepalm*

    I guess all those people that shared video tapes were hurting culture.

    All those people that loved the Grateful Dead so they only toured and allowed videos.

    All the Youtube remixes of songs, adding value...

    The growth of anime translators for accurate subtitles of anime...

    Spotify...

    Yep, all piracy is self defeating.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 8:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If anything, Ericsson and other telecommunication equipment makes would have a vested interest in seeing the continued spread of piracy, as it is a boost for network traffic and drives demand for the products that they do sell.

    See that bolded part? THAT is what should be focussed on by businesses, rather than crying into their brown envelopes for politicians.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 8:51am

    Re: Re: MP3

    I don't know where you are, but the royalies for most artists won't even cover that, due to "creative accounting".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    icon
    DannyB (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 9:12am

    Re:

    Maybe some 'freetard's want to pay for it, but the economic-rights holders won't sell it.

    Example: Jane wants to download a copy of [insert title here] and watch it on her phone. Rights holders won't sell her a download. Jane still wants it. Jane happens to find it, and at a great price.

    In this example, what do you think will happen?

    If the rights holders had sold Jane what she wanted to pay for at step 1, what would have happened?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 9:26am

    Re: Learning is hard!

    Protip: You will NEVER make any money off of things you REFUSE TO SELL.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    icon
    Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 10:32am

    Re: Re:

    The 85% are the reason that soon they will be enjoying garage bands and people who plunk at keyboards in their spare time.

    OIC.

    Only people with outdated 'skin' in the game produce 'real' music worth spending money on. I like several of these garage bans and keyboard plunkers and in my opinion, the "popular", major-label funded music really can't die fast enough.

    You act as though only the old system could produce quality music and that piracy will leave us with nothing but the bottom of the barrel. For many people out there (far more than you estimate), the artists, labels and industry heads complaining about piracy the most are cranking out the music these people want least.

    If you've ever thought you might have heard someone refer to you as an "insufferable prick," it was probably due to your condescending attitude towards amateur artists.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 10:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    No they're not! They're just taking an unpopular position because of the moral rightness that copyright confers even though if copyright were so morally right there wouldn't be so much copyright infringement going on.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 11:03am

    Re: Re: Re: MP3

    That's the exact reason why most people do not need a big label. When you're a cog in the wheel, you are easily replaced. This goes for artists, engineers, sound boomers, whoever.

    The times that worked best were when we had a lot of record labels doing various things to keep their artists happy. When Motown started up, I am willing to bet they gave the people more than %50 percent of record sales. They answered a song with another on the radio.

    Look at the industry now...
    We have payola controlling what is played on the radio.
    We have copyright saying that we can't play a song more than three times per hour.
    Indie artists have a hard time getting screen time other than the internet.
    Indie movies going through the MPAA machine are barely played outside of Sundance.

    This is what copyright has wrought? A splintering of people to discuss the laws rather than enjoy their entertainment? The best thing that could have happened is Napster be allowed to thrive as the consumer base saw fit. Instead, all of us watch these businesses complain about piracy instead of looking at their bottom line.

    But you know, there is some silver linings. With the advent of the digital era, the importance of Performance Rights Organizations is going down. Link. I downright hate the tactics that ASCRAP does and it's great to see the writing on the wall for their legalized extortion schemes.

    One day, we'll actually have legislation that makes sense. Legislation that protects the consumers from IP lookups, misguided attempts at regulating their use of the internet and trying to limit what people talk about.

    Until then, we'll have the same groupthink of people that believe the world is all about "freetardism", not understanding the actual arguments and frustrations of people.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 11:18am

    Re: Re: Re:

    What is amazing is to watch you guys try to push everything to an extreme, unsupportable position. Is there nothing in the middle?

    Your statements are all 100% extremist. You entirely miss the concepts of "world wide hit" and "popular the world over". Remove the mechanism by which this happens, and you have, well, regional, national, perhaps even county by county music and movie industries. It's a shift.

    Sure, there will be some international hits, some things will be known worldwide. Sort of like Chocolate Rain or that young asian girl singing lady gaga. Oh, wait, no, that won't work, because nobody will know who Lady Gaga is, so the girl will be singing something few people care about.

    I don't have an attitude towards amateur artist. I think they are amateur for two good reasons: time and money. They don't have enough of either when they are busy doing the 9 to 5 (or 11 to 7 night shift), trying to take care of personal matters, and perhaps getting a couple of hours a week to sit down to make music. On that scale, they should turn out a U2 or Coldplay level hit in about, what, 200 years? They might get lucky earlier, but will anyone ever really know?

    I think you are being the "insufferable prick," considering that you don't seem to think that the music industry has produced anything of note, and doesn't have any marketing power or skills.

    Then again, you are one of Mike's pets, so I have to assume that being a prick about that is pretty much a requirement!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Cow-ward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 11:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Notice how incredibly easy it is to spot Buck Lateral's posting even when he doesn't use his name?

    I like how you accuse him of moving to extremes when you immediately take up an argument akin to "IF WE DON'T SATISFY THE RECORD COMPANIES WE WILL BE BASHING STONES TOGETHER IN A CAVE ON THE GREAT PLANESCAPE OF THE RECORD INDUSTRY APOCALYPSE". But no, no, this isn't an extreme, unsupportable position to think that somehow we are going to revert to a tribal society in terms of music and that nothing will ever become popular all over the world ever again. I'm sure it's a perfectly rational line of thought because the internet is big, mean, and scary. Made of ruthless savages and untameable wolfmen.

    What you're saying is that people have to be told what to buy and that is the only way for various artists and the record industry to succeed. It isn't sufficient enough to believe that people will listen to what they like. Buck, I know you've been detached from reality for quite some time, but you should know better than this.

    Oh and I like how you use "Lady Gaga" as an example, an artist who became extremely popular by using the internet instead of holing up inside of a record company, fighting any attempt to put her music out to the public.

    Of course anything I say isn't going to sway you from your hell-bent position of "EVERYTHING THAT IS FREE IS EVIL AND A LEECH ON SOCIETY". I'm honestly not even sure why you read this site. Or use the internet for that matter.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    identicon
    Prisoner 201, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:00pm

    Re: Re: Learning is hard!

    That was positively Zen.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    icon
    Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:08pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You entirely miss the concepts of "world wide hit" and "popular the world over". Remove the mechanism by which this happens, and you have, well, regional, national, perhaps even county by county music and movie industries. It's a shift.

    I didn't miss that concept. That's the old system, which still thinks that in order to be successful, you have to be an international sensation. The regional system is not only more likely, but also preferable. Everybody starts from the bottom, even US/Coldplay.

    I just don't agree that being a globetrotting multimillionaire is the aim of every small-time musician, nor should it be. When you shift the argument in that direction, it makes it easier for you to claim that piracy has killed the music business because if X musician isn't at the top of the charts or selling millions, then X musician is a victim of piracy. I'm not the one being extremist here.

    And as for your claim that you don't have an attitude toward amateur artists? That's bullshit. In your own words, they'll never make it to the U2/Coldplay level. That's your standard for success and talent. That's not everybody's.

    And this is the argument that gets used over and over again. If thousands of bands aren't vying for the "Richest Band in the World" slot, then piracy has destroyed music. It's a dodge and it's cheap and we've seen it here a million times before. Thousands of bands never made it to the top of the heap pre-piracy. Thousands of amateurs still had day/night jobs pre-piracy.

    I think you are being the "insufferable prick," considering that you don't seem to think that the music industry has produced anything of note, and doesn't have any marketing power or skills.

    Then again, you are one of Mike's pets, so I have to assume that being a prick about that is pretty much a requirement!


    I didn't say any of that (although I did imply the "prick" thing). I didn't say the music industry hasn't produced anything of note or doesn't have marketing power. I said that they're not nearly as important as they or their defenders think they are. You're the one clinging to the old model, claiming that because it has failed (or is failing) that we'll be stuck with inferior music. That's just not true.

    The music industry had marketing power and skills, but they've allowed those to rust in favor of honing their legislative skills via lobbying.

    And as for your last dig: I've been called worse by commenters with actual names.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:10pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Music is only about hits? What a strange view of the arts you have.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    McCrea, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:24pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Your statements are all 100% extremist."

    Welcome to the club.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 12:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "is amazing is to watch you guys try to push everything to an extreme, unsupportable position. Is there nothing in the middle?"

    "you are one of Mike's pets"

    lmao, the irony is palpable

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 1:37pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    In order to be successful (aka, make a good enough living during your career to be able to retire after), you need to be able to sell enough concert tickets, enough t-shirts, and enough crap (under the new system) to make it all worth while. In order to do that, you need to be popular enough, well known enough to be able to play 200-250 dates a year. You cannot do that in your own back yard without people getting very, very sick of you.

    So by nature, bands / artists have to either expand their horizons or get amazing in house gigs in places like Vegas to make those sort of dates in order to be in music full time. (Basic math, sell 100 seats a night, 200 nights a year, at $10 a seat, netting about $2 a seat, making you 40k a year before tax).

    There will be exceptional cases (which are often pointed to here), but the numbers just don't really add up otherwise.

    There is no issue of vying for "richest band in the world", that crap doesn't matter. It's all a question of having large enough exposure and large enough following to be able to play enough dates to pay the bills, make a living, and build up a retirement fund.

    The other alternative (more likely) is that we end up with a very regional music scene, with numbers of small bar band types who release stuff online for free, hoping to get better bar gigs. Higher end arena shows are left to the few remaining big stars of the past, who as they retire, pretty much end the era.

    The music industry doesn't cling to an old model, they are sticking with the only model that actually works on scale. Since nobody has produced a business model that is actually functional on the same scale, they have no reason to move. Once you understand that, you can understand where they are.

    As for the dig, I only call out people who are worthy, and are actually debating and thinking. Being one of Mike's pricks is way better than being RD.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    icon
    Planespotter (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 2:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wow... maybe you need to get your head out of your arse, right now I'm tapped into Swedish, Dutch, French, Italian, African, Australian and UK "garage bands" who are doing really nicely in their localised "scene" who just all happen to pump their stuff out on the net for "pay what you like" as well as gigs and they don't seem to care. Why? because unlike the idiot drones of the corporation music industry they don't rate sucess as "how many millions have I made by the time I'm 40" they rate success as "are the fans happy with my/our music" and "just how much do we need to earn to have a nice life?".

    If you wish to rate success as multi-platinum albums then that's your problem but frankly I don't listen to those artists and I couldn't give a shit if you can't afford a brand new Ferrari, if you rate success at earning enough money to live comfortably so that you can continue to do what you love then that's someone I might just wanna listen to.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 2:56pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I know that stuff is around and out there. I just don't think of it as a replacement for a Coldplay, a U2, a Gaga, or even an Akon. The scale is different. Those "garage bands" are a perfect replacement for the college radio heros that couldn't get arrested outside of a college town.

    They can rate success differently, but it means that when they are 40, they will likely be working in someone else's office dreaming of being rock stars, rather than being rock stars.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 3:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Music is certainly not "all about hits", why would you have that impression? It's about being well enough known to be able to play almost anywhere, any time, in order to make enough shows to make a living. It's a band that can announce at 6PM a show at 8PM with 10,000 seats and fill the place (ask the Rolling Stones how that is done). It's about making such good music that people like and want the supposed "filler" tracks. It's about being popular enough outside of your neighbourhood that you can actually afford to play a show out there somewhere.

    It's not about hits, it's about being well known and enjoyed. "Hits" are sort of a product of that, getting exposed enough to actually get a big enough following. That isn't going to happen when you are trying to yell over 100,000 other artists all trying to do the same thing on facespace.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    icon
    Planespotter (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 3:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Well unfortunately we keep being told that there is no such thing as a "job for life", why should artistes be any different. I know plenty of groups that are still going well into their 50's who rate their success on longevity and fanbase, not on $$$'s in the bank and hits on the top 10.

    Artists based in Lisbon, Portugal have the same global reach as Akon, the thing they lack is "awareness" but even that is being eroded with free music sites and video hosting, I've given up counting the number or artists and bands that I've come across from those sorr of sites.

    But like I said the artists and bands I love don't care about Akon or Coldplay, in fact most would describe them as the "idiot drones of corporation music" I mentioned in response to your post.

    Success and guages of it are shifting, the old style recording industries definitions will pass and hopefully the remnents of the industry with it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 3:36pm

    Re:

    Okay then, let's take a look at this, shall we?

    There was a game released in Japan only. It was called Final Fantasy II. It was never released in Europe for the original console (the FAMICOM/NES, for those who are sondering.)

    It took nearly twenty years and massive amounts of fan pressure before it was released - On the PSX.

    That not enough for you? Okay then, what about Xenoblade? It was originally slated for release in the Japanese Region 1 and Europe. Then fans got involved and flat-out told Nintendo America that if it wasn't available in the US, it was going to be pirated. The result? A release date in the US.

    Having different region codes is idiotic now, when there are things that transcend borders.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 3:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I'm listening to a band called the Diablo Swing Orchestra right now. The idea that artists must be FABULOUSLY wealthy is a pipedream, like the American Dream.

    I also refer you to the curious case of N-Dubz, an actual garage group who are becoming wealthier gradually and gaining worldwide recognition. And as for GaGa, she amuses me more for the outrageous dresses than her music, yet I still keep coming back for more, like the bankers to governments.

    Why not be happy with a modest wage (of around 40k/year)? That's still much higher than the national working average over here.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    icon
    Josef Anvil (profile), Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 4:16pm

    Irony at its best

    Those in the content industry seem to be ignoring the point of the argument.

    Let's take a moment and try to explain it in plain English. Stating that infringement is a symptom and that the business model is the the problem; IS NOT, i repeat, IS NOT stating that "piracy" (infringement) is ok.

    So for all of the commenters that began with their tirade against the pro-piracy movement, you seem to have no clue what you are talking about. The argument is not about pro-piracy, but rather that the faults in the business model actually encourage infringement. Thus, those who are anti-piracy are actually pro-piracy.

    So its not the freetards causing the problem but rather the major stakeholders in the content industry who are pro-piracy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    Nicedoggy, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 4:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 4:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    who says an artist deserves to retire after pumping out 3 records with 5 total hits? maybe they should go work in someone else's office. then they'll produce something of value

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    Prisoner 201, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 5:56pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Music is about so much more than meeting some arbitrary thresholds in number of seats, media exposure or revenue stream. You are talking about the music industry.

    Besides, the age of a handful superstars everyone know about is dying. Its becoming too easy and too cheap to produce music for that phenomena to continue.

    You will have to yell over not hundreds of thousands, but tens of millions other artists, and pretty soon. Piracy or no piracy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 5:57pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    Abc gum is not a dumbass.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:00pm

    Re: Re: Learning is hard!

    Protip: You will NEVER make any money off of things you REFUSE TO SELL.

    Sure you can. You just make your money with lawsuits instead. In fact, it's even easier than competing in the market place.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    Abc gum is not a dumbass.

    Citation, please.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 6:40pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    Citations?
    We dont need no stinkin citations.
    We got skin in da game!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 2nd, 2011 @ 9:09pm

    It's like we've reached a "eureka" moment.

    Guy 1: "Hey, if we charge $15 for one download or $2.50 for 10 downloads or $.50 for 30 downloads we still make the same amount of money."
    Guy 2: No no no no, wrong. If we charge $15 that is way more money.
    Guy 1: But who can afford that.
    Guy 2: No I don't think you get it. .50 x 30 = $15. and 30 x $15 = $450. That's 3000% more.
    Guy 1: But who will buy our crappy movies for $15?
    Guy 2: Quality doesnt matter, that is what movies are worth.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    revwillie56, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 3:04am

    Response to: fogbugzd on Jul 1st, 2011 @ 10:13pm

    Innovation comes from stale stuck in the mud bosses listening to young ensigns realizing the innovation needing to be done, then getting a team to make the innovation to work. As well as shipboards or business models, talking or complaining about piracy is not going to fix the problem, comming up with solutions to fix the problem and making it work is the innovation. Making Napster a pay service did not fix piracy, just created Napster like programs by the dozen.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 5:43am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Of course music is about more than that. But you have to remember that we aren't talking about music in the abstract, or just as an art, but also as a business. It's about the ability of the artist to make enough money to remain an artist, rather than having to waste their skills as an office worker or perhaps collecting garbage.

    So once you say "I want to be a professional musician", you have to look at how you would accomplish it. For those people who choose to make modern music (rock, pop, dance, rap, etc), the only real methods out there are selling your music, selling concert tickets, and selling "stuff" as a result of the first two.

    It is wonderfully cheap to promote music, and it has been for years. The Beatles did miracles with a 4 track, and that same technology was for sale to the public since the mid 70s. The ability to record at the level of the best has been around for 20+ years already, and that still hasn't changed anything.

    It's easy to record, it's hard to get people to actually pay attention. A wonderful recording of crap is still crap, a wonderful recording of perfection that is ignored or unheard is on par with the crap. Music isn't just about music, in the same manner that building websites isn't just about buying a domain name and typing "hello world" into frontpage. We all have the tools, few of us will ever be good with them.

    Marketing, promotion, exposure, worldwide reach, and the ability to market in many countries in many languages on a local level are what really makes things happen. Most local bands will never have that ability, and that pretty much makes them local to where they are.

    The tens of millions is just the noise floor rising. It doesn't drown out the superstars, it just drowns out each other.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Howard, Cowering, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 7:24am

    Re: AC #63

    I'll take the 30 downloads for 50 cents, please. That's less than 2 cents per movie, and pretty firmly in the range where I value them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 8:31am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Where is the irony? He is one of the site posters, someone who writes for Mike. Mike only allows people he completely, totally, and utterly agrees with post articles, pretty much making anyone who does it into one of his pets. It's especially true when it is someone who went from being a comment writer to article writer.

    There is nothing extreme about that, only an observation.

    But hey, nice attempt to deflect the discussion.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 9:00am

    Re: Re: Re: Learning is hard!

    ;) Yes, grasshopper, unfortunately that is the sound of sickened trees falling in the forest.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 10:01am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You constantly attack others for the same rhetorical arguments. Odd, that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 11:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If the superstars aren't being drowned out then what exactly are you complaining about?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    icon
    Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 12:07pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don't have an attitude towards amateur artist. I think they are amateur for two good reasons: time and money. They don't have enough of either when they are busy doing the 9 to 5 (or 11 to 7 night shift), trying to take care of personal matters, and perhaps getting a couple of hours a week to sit down to make music. On that scale, they should turn out a U2 or Coldplay level hit in about, what, 200 years? They might get lucky earlier, but will anyone ever really know?

    Or to Paraphrase:
    "Every musician that is not signed to a major label is a largely talentless dilletante just messing about with music tin their spare time when they can be bothered."

    WOW is that soooo accurate.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 1:16pm

    I steal music because my desires as a consumer are not being satisfied. Why don't you just give everything for free like consumers want? Help I'm the victim of the music industries poor business models, they made me pirate.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    Nicedoggy, Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 7:44pm

    Re:

    Me too every time I shower, I just have to start the thieving.

    I can't help myself.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jul 3rd, 2011 @ 7:54pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110510/00043014221/settling-lawsuits-sometimes-makes-sense-period .shtml

    You might want to read this then. Mike doesn't agree but it was worth discussing. Or maybe you can show us your blog?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Jul 4th, 2011 @ 5:15am

    Re:

    Ah, AC shill handbook: default explanation #5 - if you can't argue with the points raised nor attack them for being a "pirate", claim that a person's point cannot be valid since they don't have skin in the game.

    Wait, doesn't that mean that you're admitting you do have a direct stake (i.e. a paid shill or clueless IP holder unable to compete in the modern world)? I think it does...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Jul 4th, 2011 @ 5:45am

    Re:

    "if it isn't available, you don't have it, but you will steal it by downloading it "

    Erm, if it's not available by legal means, what exactly is being lost by downloads? The only thing lost by "piracy" is a lost sale - how can this be lost if it's not available to begin with?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jul 4th, 2011 @ 6:05am

    Masnick madly spinning !!! ('unstated' = make it up yourself).

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110622/23021514819/why-isps-becoming-hollywood-enforcers-wont-act ually-solve-hollywoods-problem.shtml

    Comment:

    "masnick is now madly spinning away claiming that the right to terminate someone under the agreement is "unstated" but that an ISP can terminate someone if they so choose. That's quite different than the deliberately misleading bullshit in his article.

    The White House, EFF, CDT and Public Knowledge were all part of this document. Any one of them would set the building on fire before allowing termination. No one from the studio side supports termination, hell even I am opposed to termination of an individual's service as the last step in a graduated response. This is simply lies and fear mongering calculated to advance Masnick's personal agenda."


    It's nice to see Mike refering to his older (but inaccurate) posts as confirmation as his present, (equally inaccurate) post.

    Mike, you need to NOT take lessons from that idiot that run's 'boycott novell'. It is ***NOT*** a good look...

    People want you to refer back to their own works for one simple reason, that if the reader decides to find out the REAL facts, and cut through Mike's spin and often outright lies, then you find the truth to be a great deal different to how mike filters it through his own clear bias.


    "unstated" = "i dont really have a clue, but I think that is what you want to hear, so I will just make shit up" (for page views).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jul 4th, 2011 @ 8:11am

    Diametrically opposed opinions - - Mike you were not 'ripped off'.

    Ahh Mike your niavety and constand attempts to clumsily apply 'spin' to everything you say, is a constant source of amuzement... thanks..

    But really Mike, you need to be a little carefull putting two statements side by side (or one above the other) and then proudly claiming "he said just what I said"!

    You might get some people actually READ what both your said and what summers's said.
    They will find that what summers said is diametrically opposed to what you are claiming he is stating!

    And that is a problem for you, or it should be.

    You are stating in your little snippet the following:

    The music industry is failing because they are using old and outdated business models.

    Correct me if I am wrong on that, you said:

    "They've got it backwards, The problem is the business model".

    At least on that one point you and summer's agree.

    Now, Mike I am aware you like to keep things simplistic and shallow here, to cater to your target demographic, but lets dig a little deeper shall we? for those who might want to think for themselves for a refreshing change!

    That is, they look at infringement as the problem, and business model problems as the symptoms.

    What does that mean Mike, lets try to make things a bit clear, so enough of the double talk.

    How does that statement make any logical sense at all?

    Infringement HAS to be the symptom, the symptom is "what it is that is wrong, or causing the problem".

    If you are sneezing that is a sympton, and an indication that you might have a cold.

    The problem is you have a cold, the symptom of that cold is you sneeze

    Infringement is not the symptom, it is the problem, the busines model is still the business model, right or wrong it has nothing really to do with infringement, or little to do with it.

    As the people who are willing to infringe are not working within that business model, so to say it is that business model's fault is largely incorrect.

    You CAN lay claim to business model faults if it affects those who are working within that model. But not those (infringers) who are willing to bypass the business model regardless of what it is.

    Now, if you read what Rene Summer says:

    He is saying that the tried and true, good old, what we've always normally had, business model is what we need

    He is also saying that is not what the music industry presently is in Europe.

    Tell me Mike or ANYONE !!! what is what with this business model:

    availability of legal, timely, competitively priced and wide-ranging choices of affordable [incert -- product or servies] offerings.

    Now Mike, read that and tell me where you said that ?

    The infringement is the symptom -- showing that they haven't yet adapted. If you look at the history of infringement, it's the same thing every time: it's always been a leading indicator of industry not adapting fast enough.

    Adapting ?? to what ??

    "the availability of legal, timely, competitively priced and wide-ranging choices of affordable 'products/services' offerings."

    Lets hope many (every) company 'adapts' that amazing, new and innovative business model !!

    But Mike, YOU do not say that, you launch into a complex word game trying to confuse 'symptom' and 'problem' and somehow relate that to 'business model' with no real reference or logic applied.

    All you said is "it's the business model stupid", then you say 'see Rene Summer is "business model" too so I must be right.

    Then for some unknown reason you decide to take us on a history lesson,, (or at least mention the word 'history' again with no reference to anything, or argument you are trying to support with your 'historical' tangent.

    Why dont you should us some examples of an industry that is not continuously adapting to new and varied markets and economic structures ?

    Everyone adapts, all business models evolve and adapt with changing markets and market conditions, changing economies, demand, supply etc.

    Sure, they might not adapt in the exact way Mike thinks they should or that Mike would like to see, but to say therefore they are not adapting is wrong.

    It's just that they are, but Mike does not like the way they do it, and of course Mike knows best, So if Mikes does not agree with it, it just MUST be wrong, or they are not doing it in the first place.

    when clearly, all industries including the music industry is adapting in many different ways.

    Rene Summers can see that, and he is stating that how they are adapting is not the best way for them to go (in his opinion), but Mike you are in denial, you are saying "they dont adapt at all'.

    Rene is saying, they should go back to their old ways and Mike is saying their old ways did not work, and neither does their new ways. (or that they are still applying the old ways).

    So which is it ??

    Mike is telling me they are not adapting, and Rene is telling me that are adapting but not the right way, and that they should go back to the old ways, "historically".

    Mike is saying that historically they have always had this problem, and Rene is saying that they would not have this problem if they went back to the old ways they used to historically do !!!.

    That is:

    availability of legal, timely, competitively priced and wide-ranging choices of affordable digital-content offerings.

    Rene says:
    "File-sharing is a symptom of a problem, rather than a problem in itself."

    Mike Says:
    The problem is the business model. The infringement is the symptom

    You see Mike Rene is saying "file-sharing is a symptom of a problem

    And he is correct, file-sharing is a problem, it is clearly defined and known as a problem.

    Just like sneezing is the symptom of a cold, or bank robbery is a symptom of poor security, or falling over is a symptom of running too fast.

    They are all 'problems' but more importantly is the 'cause' of the problem.

    Here again Mike, it appears you shoot but totally miss any point or conclusion.

    Mike what would you do when you encountered a symptom to a problem ? I would guess you would adapt to overcome that symptom.

    If you got a cold and the symptom is a cough, you might go to bed and eat chicken soup.

    If you fall over when you run too fast, you might not run that fast next time, you adapt and you change your habbits.

    The way you adapt to different problems is rarly the same way someone else would adapt to those set of cercumstances, but you make the claim that if they do not adapt the way you want them too then they are not adapting at all.

    Then somehow magically relate that to the business model, sure the business model might not be perfect, but it is changing and adapting, as Rene Summers clearly stated.

    Rene states they ARE and HAVE adapted but not in the right way (they introducted 'windowing and territoriality') that is an ADAPTATION that Rene does not agree with, then he clearly states they should go back to the old tried and proven business model, or proving legal, timely, competative........ product...

    Is this the point where I whine about being ripped off? I'm trying to understand how that works...

    Me too !!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 4th, 2011 @ 9:59am

    Re: Re:

    The only thing lost by "piracy" is a lost sale...

    It's not even that. It may be a lost *potential* sale, in some cases. But many artists are finding that it's not even that and actually helps them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    icon
    killscar (profile), Jul 4th, 2011 @ 5:56pm

    Sheeesh...

    1. Why does every thread eventually lead to hating on Mike? He's the catalyst for conversation. I know there is an occasional oversight in fact but we are all humans no need for such venom, but there are some of you out there using multiple user names and hating for the sake of hating. Shame on you!

    2. Enough with the Anonymous posting. Get a login a be identified!

    3. Enough with the "have skin on the matter" that's about as cool as saying synergy and the like.

    4. Happy 4th of July. While I celebrate my homeland, I respect yours!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    JEDIDIAH, Jul 4th, 2011 @ 6:20pm

    It's about more than just petty robber barons.

    This isn't just a virtual land grab. I don't have to be a self-proclaimed artist to have any stake in this. To claim otherwise is to grossly mischaracterise the nature of intellectual property.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    identicon
    JEDIDIAH, Jul 4th, 2011 @ 6:28pm

    The Irony! The Irony!

    When I see people sneer at amateurs and then see the likes of U2 get held up as an example, I've just got to laugh. U2 ARE the amateur hacks. They started writing their own material because they sucked so badly at their craft that they couldn't play anyone else's stuff.

    They freely admit to this.

    Being able to get yourself a touring gig is probably much more important. Probably was the case even back in the days when the major labels were at their heyday.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 4th, 2011 @ 7:26pm

    Re: Sheeesh...

    2. Enough with the Anonymous posting. Get a login a be identified!

    Heh, what a hypocrite, as if being logged in means you aren't anonymous. I checked out killscar's own "profile". It doesn't include identity information and seems that the account was newly created for that comment.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    icon
    killscar (profile), Jul 4th, 2011 @ 7:41pm

    Re: Re: Sheeesh...

    Forgive me for not clarifying my point. I mean identified to keep track of the individual throughout the course of the conversation.

    I do apologize for not properly filling out my user data but I frequently use this handle for other purposes so I am not trying to hide anything, it's on the Google. Thanks for the negativity!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 4th, 2011 @ 9:31pm

    Re: Sheeesh...

    [quote]Why does every thread eventually lead to hating on Mike?[/quote]

    Ummm, because he's a douchebag?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:45am

    Re: Re: Sheeesh...

    Where is the bag? Or the douche? I'm certain it's sat in my bathroom right now...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 5:22am

    Re: Re: Re: Sheeesh...

    Thanks for the negativity!

    Sometimes you reap what you sow.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89.  
    icon
    DannyB (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 7:00am

    Re: Re: Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    > Since when have telecoms been anything
    > except pro-piracy and anti-regulation?


    Yep, you got it right.

    When Alexander first called Watson and invented the telephone, the foremost thing on his mind was how he could keep people from talking on the phone and thus reducing the primary purpose of the new invention: Piracy!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90.  
    identicon
    Marco, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 8:46am

    Re: How soon until his bosses "restate" what he "meant"?

    No. Ericsson and Sony-Ericsson - although the second is obviously a spin-off and a joint venture - are actually two different and distinct companies, with different employees, management and structure.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91.  
    identicon
    weknowwhotherealpiratesare, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 4:33pm

    Good grief!
    Pirates again.
    Everything is the pirates fault.
    Only who are these pirates? People that can't find and play anything after mere seconds of searching online? Kids that don't have a credit card?
    As much as I read you'd think there would people with mobile devices plugged in and playing 27/7.
    No doubt it's a good bet that not every single sliver of content has been bought and paid for but that is not new.
    Not for us regular folk.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 9:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Sheeesh...

    Sometimes you reap what you sow.

    and always you do not reap what you do now sow, and sometimes some theif will come and reap what you hav sowed before you can reap it.

    Then Mike will do all he can to make it sound like it is ok to reap what someone else sow what you reap.

    Especially when you clearly are not capable of sow'ing yourself.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 9:18pm

    Not a Douchebag, just confused...

    Sometimes you reap what you sow.

    Now come on !!! I would not say Mike is a douchebag !!! that is a very nastly thing to say.

    NO, Mike might be alot of things, biased, hypocritical, nieve, uninformed and unable to comprehend any of the issues he claims 'expertise' in, and sure he has never been able to display in any practical way that what he says is in any way relative to reality,

    But a 'douchebag' !!!!!

    Mike probably is a very nice person, and I am sure if he could get over his habbit of bending the truth, and making things up, then I am sure many other people will also see him for what he is... (whatever that happens to be).

    Mike has a 'business model' that he is trying to create and support, Mikes busines model is to make money from the application off his intellectual property!!!!

    This in itself is a source of amuzement as the majority of his works are on the subject that intellectual property has no value, (except of course that is who Mike makes a living).

    So apart from "Mike" (and everyone else on the planet), IP has not value according to TAM (The angelic Mike).

    I guess that is why some people consider Mike to be a false profit, he peaches "DO not worship the IP God, and do not see that I worship the IP God"..

    (some people state that as; "Do as I say, not as I do".)

    This speaks to your credability Mike, but to say you are therefore a douchebag, is a bit harsh, or may be he just knows you better than I do.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This