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Ticketmaster Says People Don't Like Service Fees Because We Don't Understand Them
from the I-don't-think-that's-it... dept
If you follow the music business, you probably already know about or follow Ticketmaster boss Irving Azoff's Twitter feed, which he kicked off earlier this month by calling two different reporters "jerks," and generally jousting with some of his critics. He went quiet for a bit, but caused a bit of a stir over the weekend by announcing (sort of) that Ticketmaster had "full disclosure pricing." Considering just how much hatred there is towards Ticketmaster's "service charges," this certainly picked up some attention.
The only problem? While the tickets Azoff pointed to highlighted prices that included fees (amusingly, the fees on the cheapest ticket markup the official ticket price by a whopping 50%) some quickly discovered that this wasn't, at all, what they expected. That's because despite the implication that these prices now showed you full fees, some noticed another $6.50 fee tacked on at the end. After people pointed that out, Azoff again responded by claiming that Ticketmaster simply can't show you all the fees until it knows how many tickets are being bought and what the shipping method is.
A few hours later, Ticketmaster launched a blog, where the first post tries to delve into this by suggesting that the problem isn't the fees, it's that you don't understand the fees. Yeah, really. This is incredibly tone deaf on Ticketmaster's part. People understand fees just fine. As Eliot Van Buskirk at Wired points out "each dollar that comes out of their wallets is identical." No one cares that Ticketmaster has to pay various third parties, such as "promoters, venues, teams, artists" out of those fees.
Years ago, we discussed a nearly identical situation with phone bills, showing how people were incredibly annoyed with massive unexplained fees, and the telcos insisted they were necessary to "recoup costs." But, as we pointed out, in most businesses you recoup the costs in the list price and don't break out fees. Otherwise, we'd have lots of companies doing this sort of crap: Want a pizza pie? It's just $3, but there's a $3.50 "crust fee," a $9.38 "oven fee," a $4.50 "service fee," and a $2.18 "cleanup fee." Plus tax.
That, of course, is ridiculous and would piss people off -- just as telco fees do and just as Ticketmaster's fees do. If Ticketmaster wanted to make people happy it would stop telling people they need to be better educated about fees -- a subject they don't care about -- and just offer straight up, all-in, pricing. If Ticketmaster has to pay a bit more to some third party because of this, well, why not figure out a way to bake that into the overall price. It's called forecasting, and most other businesses predict their cost of goods sold using various forecasting methods, and it seems rather silly that Ticketmaster apparently cannot.
The only problem? While the tickets Azoff pointed to highlighted prices that included fees (amusingly, the fees on the cheapest ticket markup the official ticket price by a whopping 50%) some quickly discovered that this wasn't, at all, what they expected. That's because despite the implication that these prices now showed you full fees, some noticed another $6.50 fee tacked on at the end. After people pointed that out, Azoff again responded by claiming that Ticketmaster simply can't show you all the fees until it knows how many tickets are being bought and what the shipping method is.
A few hours later, Ticketmaster launched a blog, where the first post tries to delve into this by suggesting that the problem isn't the fees, it's that you don't understand the fees. Yeah, really. This is incredibly tone deaf on Ticketmaster's part. People understand fees just fine. As Eliot Van Buskirk at Wired points out "each dollar that comes out of their wallets is identical." No one cares that Ticketmaster has to pay various third parties, such as "promoters, venues, teams, artists" out of those fees.
Years ago, we discussed a nearly identical situation with phone bills, showing how people were incredibly annoyed with massive unexplained fees, and the telcos insisted they were necessary to "recoup costs." But, as we pointed out, in most businesses you recoup the costs in the list price and don't break out fees. Otherwise, we'd have lots of companies doing this sort of crap: Want a pizza pie? It's just $3, but there's a $3.50 "crust fee," a $9.38 "oven fee," a $4.50 "service fee," and a $2.18 "cleanup fee." Plus tax.
That, of course, is ridiculous and would piss people off -- just as telco fees do and just as Ticketmaster's fees do. If Ticketmaster wanted to make people happy it would stop telling people they need to be better educated about fees -- a subject they don't care about -- and just offer straight up, all-in, pricing. If Ticketmaster has to pay a bit more to some third party because of this, well, why not figure out a way to bake that into the overall price. It's called forecasting, and most other businesses predict their cost of goods sold using various forecasting methods, and it seems rather silly that Ticketmaster apparently cannot.
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Reader Comments (rss)
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Being able to pull new revenue streams out of your ass sure beats innovating with new business models and pleasing your customers.
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Let me just try closing the tags myself
Anyway, as stated, people don't care about an itemized list about how they are being screwed. They care about the bottom-line. Knowing where money is going does not make it reasonable and certainly wont make consumers okay with it. It's a non-sequitur.
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Mike is angry
/sarcasm
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Re: Mike is angry
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this article
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Scapegoats
They imagine people will just shut up and pay up. Instead, people are doing the smart thing and saying, "Stop paying people to stand around, scratching their butts!"
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Re: this article
way to just babble on and on about nothing. If you dont like the fact that this site writes about what we find interesting * the content you are reading by choice*, then boycott the site that writes about that content. Then after you're done whining about it, go slits your wrists for being so emo dramatic.
/couldnotresist
Not that you'll recognize the irony, but it is amusing that you whine about what you falsely perceive as me whining in a much more dramatic way than anything I wrote. Amusement abounds.
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Re: Re: this article
Dork!! and to funny ;)
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Fees
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Re: this article
The point is less "I don't want to pay that" and more "be upfront with what I'm paying." like mike said, you don't order a pizza for $3 and then get charged an over fee, a cleanup fee, and a service fee -- you buy a $12 pizza and you're done. Ticketmaster says a concert is $30, but then adds on service fees and lighting fees and venue fees -- just tell me the ticket really costs $52 and be done with it.
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Post
1) Physical ticket via postal system for ~£3 or
2) Electronic (PDF type) ticket which I print myself.
How the fiddly f*ck does it cost £3 to distribute an electronic ticket!
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Re: Re: this article
{sarc-mark}
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Trolls are hungry today!
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Re: this article
way to just babble on and on about nothing. If you dont like the fact that this site writes about what we find interesting * the content you are reading by choice*, then boycott the site that writes about that content. Then after you're done whining about it, go slits your wrists for being so emo dramatic.
/couldnotresist"
(to original poster) Yes. Please do so. Especially the last part, do that right away. Please. Soon. Then we wont have to poison our eyes with your whiny drivel.
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Fees
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Awesome!!!
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Re: Fees
Ticket Cost: 35$
Ticketmaster Cost: 15$
Total Cost: 60$
Then people know exactly what is going to the artist, but still clearly know the full price up front.
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Math
35+15+x=60?
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Re: Math
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oh we understand them - aka ripoffs
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Re: Fees
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Same with the telcos. Your wireless carrier will hook you with a low monthly fee of $39.95, knowing full well that they'll get more like $60 from you after they tack on the fees.
That's why they do it.
Wouldn't you?
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De Facto Monopoly
Ticketing is a de facto monopoly regardless of how you slice it. A limited resource where demand sometimes outstrips supply. Now as a artist/venue/promoter you of course want your tickets sold, so you give the biggest allocation to the largest and most reliable ticketing provider, which most of the time is Ticketmaster. In order to gain a larger allocation of tickets from the venue/artist/promoter what do you think agents like Ticketmaster bargain with? If you guessed by setting extra fees, you'd be correct. Most of the time during these dealings, side deals are cut so that the venue/artist/promoter/agent can profit further from the sale of this limited resource. Now Ticketmaster doesn't mind being the boogie man and takes the flack, that's their job and why venues/artists/promoters use them. So fees are in fact shared between the parties and are set by collusion between the agent and the venue/artist/promoter. With the extra and reliable income that Ticketmaster promises based on getting these allocations there is really no desire to promote competition. It's greed on all sides where Ticketmaster plays the bag man. Obviously if the venues/promoters/artists wanted something different which was fairer for the punter, they would do it. But the promise of extra gravy... well that's sometimes hard to resist.
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This exact same line of reasoning was used in a piece in the LA Times today by Verizon and AT&T. They claim you can't get a full quote without going through the entire 15 minute order process.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20100824,0,1949781.column
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Re: Re: Fees
TM Cost: 15
Total: 50
Where did you get $60 from? YOU WORK FOR TICKETMASTER DON'T YOU!!!!/bold
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Re:
Ever heard of long-term planning? I know that US investors discourage that idea, but most parts of the business world don't believe in cannibalizing future dollars for minor, immediate gains.
There's a saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". You trick people into paying higher-than-advertised prices once, and they will never trust your marketing again.
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Ticketmaster (live nation, whatever) is evil
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Re: this article
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Re: Re: Fees
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So is that my fault for not being psychic or is that their fault for not adequately explaining the fees?
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Re: Mike is angry
Sorry this is kinda off topic, but here is another tip. If you ever go to a gym don't ever sign anything and don't ever give them your credit/debit card number.
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Re: Re: Re: Fees
Ticket Cost: 35
TM Cost: 15
TRYOTCF* Cost: 10
Total: $60
*Ticketmaster Rake-You-Over-The-Coals Fee
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Breaking News:
Ticketmaster's Mom Says Ticketmaster Is Not Fat, They're Big-Boned
...Incidentally, this is the first I've heard about artists and promoters getting a cut of the service fees. The way it used to work is that the band gets a flat guarantee from the venue, and the promoter/manager/etc. takes a cut of that. The ticketing fees would all go to the ticket agent.
If that's not the case anymore, then why do tickets cost so much, even without the fees? That can't all be going to the venue...
Then again, I haven't attended a show where tickets were sold by Ticketmaster in a very, very long time. I mean, the last time I paid a ticketing fee, it was around $3.00.
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Re: De Facto Monopoly
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Airlines
One of the reasons that teleco's and airlines do the fees rather than increase tickets is for search comparison.
got to orbitiz, etc. and search for tickets, they will compare the list price, not the total cost.
TM OTOH has a de facto monopoly in many areas and they add fees because they can. You want to see the event, then pay the piper. Where else are you going to go?
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Re:
Hey, Karl is cool again!
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Channeling Jack
"You can't handle the truth!"
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Re: Trolls are hungry today!
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Re: Fees
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$1 Airline Tickets
I wonder if I could get a business method patent on that?
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Re: Re: De Facto Monopoly
We need better judges.
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Re: this article
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TM fees
And it works, most of these comments are anti-ticketmaster and none are anti-promoter.
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be forthright or be gone
no one sane pushes the scheme
cost = B + T + 1.4W + m + n + y
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Re: $1 Airline Tickets
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Re: Fees
80 cents for the ticket (paper?)
50 cents for the artist fee
$1 for the songwriter fee
$15 for the record company fee
$3 for the promoter fee
...then TicketMaster adds it's fees.
So, concert tickets are really 80 cents!
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Re: TM fees
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Re: Re: this article
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Re:
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Re: Re: $1 Airline Tickets
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Re: be forthright or be gone
Where
E = Expense gouged
m = mug value of band
c = number of con victims persuaded to attend
So the more conned mugs attend a bigger mug-attractor, the worse the gouging...
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Re: this article
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