Sequoia Accidentally Reveals (Potentially Illegal?) E-Voting Code

from the whoops dept

For years, the big e-voting firms have refused to share their source code, repeatedly insisting all sorts of awful things would happen if the code was revealed. Of course, in the few instances where people actually did get access to the code, the only "awful things" that turned up were pretty massive security holes and weak programming. However, it looks like Sequoia may have inadvertently revealed its source code (found via Slashdot) due to an incompetent attempt to "remove" trade secret info:
The Election Defense Alliance filed a public records request under California law for a copy of the final election databases from recent elections in Riverside County California. Riverside coughed them up, after sending them first to Sequoia for "redaction of trade secrets" and forcing EDA to pay a substantial amount for this "service."

As near as we can tell, instead of stripping out proprietary stuff of any sort, Sequoia simply committed vandalism: they stripped the Microsoft SQL header data off the top, expecting that this would ruin access to the data under any possible database utility and making the contents unreadable. [Note: confirming this is a high-priority task!]

While they succeeded in ruining the files as data, they didn't realize what a Linux user could do with the "strings" command: strip out unreadable characters and leave everything left as readable plain text. This in turn revealed thousands of lines of Microsoft SQL code that appear to control the logical flow of the election.
So now there's a project underway to analyze the code, which can't make Sequoia very happy. But what may be even more interesting is that the folks hosting the code are suggesting that the way Sequoia buried its code in data files may violate federal election law concerning e-voting systems.
It violates the federal rulebook on voting systems on several levels: the rules require that code be hash-checked to prove authenticity in the field for obvious reasons. If the real working code is buried in with the data, no such hash-checks are possible. The federal rulebook is also clear that code can't be interpreted, apparently to avoid modification "in the field" (generally county or city election offices). There is also a rule barring "machine generated code" and since these data files are allegedly created (and managed) by the WinEDS application, the code in these files has to be "machine generated"?
That can't be good. Though it might further explain the resistance to ever sharing the code.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    icon
    Designerfx (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 7:37am

    hmm

    people say it *was* a Mysql server per the website, but I assume this project will get a lot more analysis soon.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    identicon
    The Real John Doe, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 7:57am

    Awesome...

    Somebody is going to lose their job over this one. Unfortunately, it will be the wrong people.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    icon
    :Lobo Santo (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:10am

    eVoting Code should be Open Source

    That way any code-monkey could point out idiot mistakes to the world--and even offer up fixes.

    And when everybody (every coder?) agrees it's nigh perfect--there are no more fixes to be done--and anybody knowledgeable can look at the code and truthfully say "this is good, this works" THEN you're eVoting machine is ready for duty.

    Seriously, easy problem to solve.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    identicon
    keven sutton, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:16am

    Opens only in MY-SQL 2005

    The .BAK database file apparently will open in Microsoft SQL 2005, meaning there's a pretty good chance that it wasn't vandalized, just someone using bad software (MICROSOFT). Doesn't lessen the impact of code being in the database, but there probably wasn't any vandalism.

    Link Ensuing:
    http://studysequoia.wikispaces.com/message/view/home/15697098

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    identicon
    RD, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:22am

    they will sue now

    Sequoia will now sue to have these analysis prevented, citing "trade secrets" and other nonsense. This will tie up the process for months or years, meanwhile their sieve-like and highly corruptable voting machines will continue to be used to steal elections.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:25am

    What we need is an end to end user verified voting system.

    "For years, the big e-voting firms have refused to share their source code"

    While I agree that source code should be released to the public, it doesn't really solve the problem. How do I know the same code that's released to the public is the code that's actually being used? How do I know some third party applications aren't being used in the background somewhere? I don't.

    I talk about end to end voting systems and their implications here

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090903/1538136098.shtml

    Also see

    http://fc09.ifca.ai/papers/fc09-gardner.pdf

    Notice how it says, "Intended to provide guarantees regardless of software"

    and see cryptovoting-usenix05.pdf

    For some reason the original NEFF file doesn't work right now but it's here

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    identicon
    Enricosuarve, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:26am

    Re: they will sue now

    Unless some honest soul uploads it to wikileaks, then it become a glorious free for all Sequoia bashing (the company that is, not the trees - I quite like the trees)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:27am

    Re:

    err, end to end user verified voting systems *

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    identicon
    TheStupidOne, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:30am

    Re: they will sue now

    Well trade secret protection ends when the company voluntarily sends the data out, so that does not apply. They will likely sue, but they can't (or shouldn't be able to) even make a case much less win. Meanwhile the data is already out there so there isn't any stopping it now.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:32am

    Re: they will sue now

    I'm probably displaying my ignorance for the convaluted mess that is IP law, but the first thing that sprang to my mind was anti-circumvention clauses....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:44am

    The old-fashioned way

    No, what we need is to get rid of computer involvement in the voting process altogether.

    Firstly, there is no need to involve computers. Hand count ballots twice by different groups of people, the old-fashioned way. Electronic voting gives us nothing of real value, so why go to all the trouble and expense?

    Secondly, there is no way to make electronic voting work in with anything near the degree of confidence of doing the old-fashioned way. Yes, there are algorithms by which security can be mathematically assured but here's the killer -- it's all invisibly operating in a black box in the end, so we have to take some experts word for it that these algorithms are being used as well as correctly implemented.

    Hand-counting is transparent and easy to verify by the average person -- and this is the most important thing. Not only having the count be correct, but having everyone know that it's correct.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:51am

    Re: The old-fashioned way

    "Hand-counting is transparent and easy to verify by the average person"

    Hi! My name is the 2000 Presidential Election! I don't think we've been introduced...

    The point is that an open eVoting mechanism in which coding, reporting, and analysis are provided both to and by the public will ALWAYS be more reliable than hand counting ballots for the following reasons:

    1. Far more oversight in how ballots are counted
    2. Less setting issues. In other words, no more worrying about ballot trucks getting hijacked, natural disaster issues, etc.
    3. Opportunity for less mistakes in the voting process. Think of those "Are you sure you want to delete slutty_asian_skanks.avi from your recycling bin?". You can have similar messages verifying votes cast on eBallots.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:53am

    Re: The old-fashioned way

    Please educate yourself about end to end user voting systems before jumping to conclusions. I much prefer a well implemented end to end user verifiable voting system than trusting someone else to hand count them. With an end to end user verified voting system the people, each individual, can audit the votes themselves and ensure that each vote counted and was properly tallied.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:53am

    Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    end to end user verified voting systems *

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    icon
    :Lobo Santo (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:55am

    Re: The old-fashioned way

    "Hand-counting is transparent and easy to verify by the average person -- and this is the most important thing. Not only having the count be correct, but having everyone know that it's correct."

    As mankind multiplies and spreads, hand-counting becomes less and less feasible.

    What you're saying is something like this: "My horse and buggy ain't never given me much bother--and yer never gonna get that stoopid engine thing you've been on about working right. Give it up, buy a horse."

    You cannot run from the future; run with it or be trampled by it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    icon
    Brooks (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 8:56am

    Tech bits

    I hate Sequoia and the whole e-voting debacle as much as anyone, but there are some technical elements of the article that should be corrected:

    - A database dump like this is a mix of code and data, like a zip file. Having code in their does not mean it is "buried in the data".

    - Having the logic in stored procedures does not prevent them from being hash checked. In fact, SQL stored procedures are hash checked automatically and the hash values stored in a separate "master" database. Code (or people) could easily verify that the hashes match.

    - If this code is machine generated, so is every Word document you type. Just because you use a tool to access the database and modify its procedures does not mean that the tool is generating the code.

    - With regards to "code can't be interpreted", that's more difficult. If the intent is to only have binaries distributed, then yes, stored procedures can be modified (see hash checking, above). But, of course, so can binaries. It's going to depend on the definition of interpreted; stored procedures (like Java byte code) are compiled to binary at runtime and cached.

    I'm for transparency and full release of source for anything election related. However, some of this technical stuff is bordering on disingenuous misrepresentation to prove a point.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 9:26am

    Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    Actually, I have educated myself about end-to-end user voting systems. You're the one jumping to conclusions.

    "With an end to end user verified voting system the people, each individual, can audit the votes themselves and ensure that each vote counted and was properly tallied."

    Actually, no they can't. All the people can do is learn what the system tells them. The system may not be lying, but it's not actually possible for the average yuser to have confidence in that. They still have to take the word of experts that the system is working as expected.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    icon
    Mike C. (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 9:26am

    Re: Tech bits

    While I agree with some of what you say, I can't help thinking there is one major flaw in your analysis - you're assuming that the developers MUST use best practices.

    While it does make sense to have some functionality in the database for efficiency and speed, why does the database have to have any code at all? Why couldn't the database simply be a data repository and all the data manipulation / verification get done in the compiled executables?

    Yes, it may not be the most efficient way to do things. In fact, it probably makes the development effort an order of magnitude more difficult. That being said, why should the developers be allowed to break the rules for the sake of convenience?

    I think Sequoia needs to be taken to task for this and in a very public way. Just my $0.02.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 9:28am

    Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    "My name is the 2000 Presidential Election!"

    The 2000 election is not a good example of hand counting, given that it was deliberate as screwed up as possible.

    You'll get no argument from me that hand counting is more accurate than machine. My argument is that it's harder to trust that the machine is counting as expected.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 9:30am

    Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    "What you're saying is something like this: "My horse and buggy..."

    Actually, no. What I'm saying is that as of right now, my horse and buggy will get me there safer than your fancy automobile. Not as fast, not as cheap, but with more safety. I'm not saying this will always be the case.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 9:40am

    So glad our votes count...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 9:44am

    Re: Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    "The 2000 election is not a good example of hand counting, given that it was deliberate as screwed up as possible."

    But that's exactly the point! It's hard to understand how you can claim that hand counting is more accurate than eVoting and then toss out a prime example of terribly innacurate hand counting because it was "deliberate". Deliberate interference is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Whatever problems and innaccuracies might still arrive from eVoting, it will pale in comparison to the current type of voter fraud that exists today in varying degrees.

    "My argument is that it's harder to trust that the machine is counting as expected."

    I don't think that'd be the case if you opened EVERYTHING up.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    icon
    Bri (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 9:54am

    So this once again displays,
    a) A non-open privatized voting system is a complete cluster-****.
    b) The government is asleep at the wheel. Privatizing voting systems only works if there is oversight, governmental, public, etc.
    c) The government doesn't give a flying F about voting security. Laws should be implemented against people with this kind of power, particularly when any abuse is tantamount to treason.
    This crap is mind-boggling.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    icon
    Sean T Henry (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 10:05am

    Re: Re: they will sue now

    They are not trying to circumvent anything just trying read the files delivered to them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    identicon
    Kazi, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 10:08am

    Re: Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    Yup. You can be drunk on a horse and buggy and not worry about hitting another buggy!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 10:25am

    Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    The 2000 election ballot in Florida was created by a Democrat. Maybe it was confusing on purpose but didn't achieve the desired result?

    I believe Stalin said that he who casts the votes decide nothing, he who counts the votes decides everything. So voter fraud can be done by the counters regardless of machine or hand voting.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 10:29am

    Re: Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    Same with Hand Counting.
    After I Vote, I've no way to watch that they actually count MY vote correctly.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    just this guy, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 10:40am

    I always thought there should be 2 different machines from 2 different manufactures counting the votes, if there is a discrepancy in 1 the other would hopefully catch it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    icon
    Brooks (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 10:59am

    Re: Re: Tech bits

    SQL stored procedures *are* best practices. Think of it this way: you can either bring buckets of data, which can be very large, to the code... or you can bring the code, which is small, to the data.

    In fact, when we say SQL, we're actually talking about two things: DDL and DML. DDL is tables and stuff, DML is logic. this is completely normal and very much the way things are done in many, if not most, databases.

    Another advantage of stored procedures is that they do away with code/schema version problems. There's no danger of an old executable running around that expects different schemas, and if executables interface with a database via stored procedures, DBAs can change the underlying schema (for performance, partitioning, or feature expansion) transparently.

    The main reasons some people don't use stored procedures are that they can be harder to debug, they require knowledge of DML (what people usually call SQL), and low end databases didn't historically support them. However, even MySQL started supporting them in 5.0. Stored procedures are everywhere, they're common, and they are absolutely the best practice in many scenarios.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    icon
    DocMenach (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 11:18am

    For more info....

    If anyone is interested, one of the people who is actually going through the code has a website up were he addresses a number of issues.
    http://www.codersrevolution.com/index.cfm/2009/10/21/Sequoia-Voting-System-Witch-Hunt-err-Study-Pr oject

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    Rich Kulawiec, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 12:40pm

    Worth pointing out...

    ...as I did the last time this came up, that even if we solved the software problem COMPLETELY, and that of course is a pipe dream, that by no means assures us that the election system is performing the way that the software is instructing it to.

    Once again, I refer everyone to Bruce Schneier's essay on what it would cost to steal an election and urge them to make a reasonable extrapolation from his postulated budget (in 2004) to a realistic budget for, let's say, 2012. His number was $100M; I think $500M is a sensible number now.

    An attacker with that budget can subvert the hardware -- creating custom chips if need be. I would. Let everyone knock themselves out over the software, where nearly all the attention is focused, since in the end, it will run on my hardware, which will do what I told it to.

    The answer to this is: pencil and paper. It's well-understood. Attacks against it are well-understood and credible defenses well-known. It can be operated by unskilled personnel, and defended by unskilled personnel. It's very difficult to subvert ON A LARGE SCALE, which is of course what matters when we talk about stealing an election. It's auditable. It imposes physical constraints on data and data flow. And so on.

    Yes, it has its drawbacks: speed, for instance. But I'm quite content to wait a week for election results in order to gain the assurance that they're close to what they should be. And -- as should be obvious to everyone here -- nobody out there can yet replicate its performance with an electronic system.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    TSO, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 12:47pm

    Re: they will sue now

    > after sending them first to Sequoia for "redaction of trade secrets"

    Doesn't it means that Sequoia itself has certified that there are no trade secrets in the file they supplied? What an irony. :D Let's watch them biting their elbows.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    F, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 1:53pm

    What a joke!

    "As mankind multiplies and spreads, hand-counting becomes less and less feasible."

    Are you just trying to be funny? More people means more hands to do hand counting.

    They count ballots by hand in India, and they have a lot more people than the US.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    icon
    DocMenach (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 1:59pm

    Re: Worth pointing out...

    And -- as should be obvious to everyone here -- nobody out there can yet replicate its performance with an electronic system.

    Well that might be obvious, if it were actually true. But it is not even remotely close to reality. First off, you use as a primary premise the idea that paper ballots cannot be forged, which both recent and long term history has shown us to not be the case. A couple good examples are the 2009 Elections in Iran, and the 2009 Afghanistan election. Both of these elections were done with traditional paper ballots, and both were shown to have major inconsistencies at best, and outright fraud at worst.

    No one is saying that the current electronic voting systems are perfect, but a large part of the reason for that is the fact that the details of how the electronic systems work are locked up as "trade secrets" thereby denying the ability of people to examine those details to determine how reliable they really are.

    You also seem to say that speed is the main difference between electronic and paper voting systems. That is also simply untrue. While speed is one of the advantages, it is hardly the biggest. The biggest advantage of a good electronic voting system is that it allows much more detailed auditing of results, which would be difficult if not impossible to achieve with a paper ballot system.

    To come back to your first point regarding a hypothetical person with $500 million to spend to rig an election: I'm sure that if that amount is adequate to steal an electronic ballot election, then it would also be an adequate budget to steal a paper ballot election as well.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 2:36pm

    Re: Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    "Actually, no they can't. All the people can do is learn what the system tells them. The system may not be lying, but it's not actually possible for the average yuser to have confidence in that. They still have to take the word of experts that the system is working as expected."

    Ok, lets take an oversimplified end to end user verified voting system that I made up to oversimplify the matter.

    I go to a voting booth. It gives me a random number. I type in my vote.

    Next, I go to the Internet. There is a list of my city and everyone in it. It has my number listed there along with whom I voted for. I can, MYSELF, write a computer program that tallies everyone that voted for whom I voted for or anyone else.

    So say the vote look like this.

    1: Ron Paul
    2: George Bush
    3: Ron paul
    4: Jack Nicholson
    5: Bob Barr

    Now, when I vote I am FIRST given the number 3. I type in Ron Paul. I go home and check the website with everyones vote. I check for the number 3 and make sure that Ron Paul shows up. Now, I can write a program that adds up how many people voted for Ron Paul.

    See, The USERS verify the system. No experts needed to tell me nothing.

    Say that the total amount of people who voted exceeds the amount of registered voters who are in my city on the list of all the votes in my city. It should easily come to someones attention, even I can add up all the votes and say, "hey, look, something doesn't add up."

    Furthermore, there could be a second list that lists everyone who voted. Everyone knows that the amount of voters on that list should equal the amount of votes on the other list. If they're not equal everyone would know. And if grandma shows up on that list and she didn't vote that year because she was sick then it would raise alarms.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 2:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    I should be clearer of what I mean. The 2000 election is not an example because the system was not actually a hand-counted election. It was a machine-counted election that got counted by hand. Everything was meant for machines, not people, so you had ridiculous things like hanging chads and the extreme difficulty of supervising the counters.

    In an actual hand-counted election, the election materials would be designed for people to easily count. There would be nobody examining tiny holes with magnifying glasses. Furthermore, the ballots being counted would be easily read from a distance, so supervision and oversight becomes more obvious. It's hard to beat the old Roman colored-chit system, except that's not practical when you're voting for more than one thing at a time.

    "I don't think that'd be the case if you opened EVERYTHING up."

    But surely it would. So you (or a trusted expert -- and there's a new person we must trust) can examine the code and be assured that it is correct. Can you be sure that the machine you're actually touching when you vote is really running that code? Gotta put a mechanism in for that. Does that mechanism allow me, joe voter, to be sure that the code is the same? If not, there's another expert we have to trust as well as a new security scheme to trust.

    My point is that in the end, transparency is impossible when it's all invisible electricity, and so in the end we can never be sure, or even really be sure of how sure we can be. We can know what trusted others tell us, but you get enough "trusted" people in a group and there will be at least one untrustworthy person among them. Many points of failure and all of that.

    With hand voting, we still have to trust -- but we can have many people overseeing the whole operation. These people don't have to be experts, so they can be ordinary people, and a lot of them, so it becomes more difficult for one bad actor to get away with shenanigans.

    We used to do it that way, many other large nations still do it that way, or mostly so. The drawback to it is primarily that counting takes longer.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 2:40pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    "I've no way to watch that they actually count MY vote correctly."

    Absolutely not true. In hand-counting systems, such as the was the US did it not that long ago, all counts and ballot handling are supervised by random volunteers. You absolutely could watch your count being counted. You could even follow the tally back to that master count if you wanted.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 3:56pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    "Can you be sure that the machine you're actually touching when you vote is really running that code? "

    I don't care if the machine I'm voting on utilizes black magic, as long as I can verify that my vote is counted. That's what end to end user verified voting systems permit.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    identicon
    aep528, Oct 21st, 2009 @ 4:03pm

    Re: Re: The old-fashioned way

    What oversight? There's no way at the end of an e-vote to prove after the fact that the vote actually matched the button the user touched without relying on the software itself.

    There's no checks and balances because you need to rely on data provided by the application to verify the application. Sure, a machine can print a paper receipt, but you would have to have the voter approve and sign the receipt to verify accuracy, and that will just slow down the voting process.

    What if a bug is found in the code a month after the election, where under certain conditions touching a particular button MAY cause the wrong vote to be registered? The election results would have to be thrown out because there is no way to go back through the data and determine if the error actually occurred during the election.

    My point? An error with a paper ballot can only occur on a single ballot. Design the paper ballot and have all parties and candidates approve the design ahead of time so that there can be no lawsuits later over how the ballot was formatted. That way if there is a question about a single ballot, it will not impact the rest of the ballots.

    Paper ballots can also be used for mail-in voting. Even with e-voting, this concept of driving somewhere and standing in line is extremely outdated and must end.

    Web voting is suspect unless every ISP can somehow guarantee 100% uptime on election day, and the government can guarantee no server crashes or downtime or bandwidth problems. Also, all construction projects and traffic must be halted halted so there is no chance of lines being cut/damaged.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    icon
    S. Keeling (profile), Oct 21st, 2009 @ 7:43pm

    Re: Re: Worth pointing out...

    "A couple good examples are the 2009 Elections in Iran, and the 2009 Afghanistan election. Both of these elections were done with traditional paper ballots, and both were shown to have major inconsistencies at best, and outright fraud at worst."

    I think you missed the bit about both of those have since been determined to be highly controversial, at least. Iran still fears revolution over it.

    Sounds like paper ballotting worked swimmingly in both situations, refusing to allow the elections to be stolen, at least without anyone noticing.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This