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Are Copyright Holders Purposely Putting Content On P2P In Order To Demand Money?
from the that's-what-we-call-extortion dept
We've discussed the highly questionable activities of UK law firm Davenport Lyons for its supposed campaigns on behalf of various copyright holders. From what we had seen, the firm wasn't particularly interested in actually protecting content from being shared online -- only in threatening as many people as possible with "pre-settlement letters" to get them to pay up to avoid being sued. This certainly feels like what's commonly called extortion, especially, as it came to light that the pre-settlement letters are being sent to many innocent bystanders. Since this is a business model issue (squeezing individuals to pay up) rather than actually being about protecting copyright, it's no surprise that the pre-settlement letters would be sent as widely as possible, even if there was no actual evidence showing guilt.
However, the situation may be even worse than originally suspected. In an article about Davenport Lyons' latest client, TorrentFreak notes that the copyright holder may be contracting with a company to purposely spreading the content on file sharing networks for the purpose of making it easier to find people to threaten with pre-settlement letters. There are a number of different players involved here, but basically, copyright holders are licensing the copyright on various movies to a firm called DigiProtect. DigiProtect, in turn, hires Davenport Lyons to send out the pre-settlement letters. But in a leaked contract between DigiProtect and one copyright holder, it's made quite clear in the contractual language, that DigiProtect is expected to upload the movies as widely as possible prior to having a law firm send out the pre-settlement letters:
To achieve the purpose outlined in clause 1, LICENSOR grants DIGIPROTECT the exclusive right to make the movies listed in Appendix 1 worldwide available to the public via remote computer networks, so-called peer-2-peer and internet file sharing networks such as e-Donkey, Kazaa, Bitorrent, etc. for the duration of this agreementIn other words, it's quite clear that this has nothing to do with preventing content from getting on file sharing networks. Instead, they're specifically putting it there themselves, apparently hoping to get it as widespread as possible, in order to send out the threat letters more widely, so they can collect on the "settlements" from people scared that they're about to get sued. It's hard to see how that's not a massive abuse of copyright law.
Reader Comments (rss)
(Flattened / Threaded)
Legal implications?
I don't know much about legal-stuff, but if they gave this company "the exclusive right to make the movies listed in Appendix 1 worldwide available to the public" wouldn't that mean that downloading said movies would be perfectly legal? After all, they're giving this company the right to distribute these works, and that's what the company is doing.
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surprise?
Not really surprising. Totally illegal, but when did the RIAA ever give a rats tushie about the law if they felt like it.
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Correct me if I'm wrong...
...but isn't this the legal definition of entrapment? Or is it only law enforcement officials that can be charged with that?
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Authorized share
If the content is uploaded by the content owner or a licensed content distributor, then doesn't it become an authorized download? And if said authorized download comes with no license agreement or fine print, is there anything legally stopping a person from re-uploading it? At least, that's how I think it would be here in the US.
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Or it could be that . . .
. . . in order to appear like a normal peer they seed as they leech, and are covering their backs. Or perhaps they're actually looking to go after downloaders instead of uploaders. Don't get me wrong, knowing someone who got a Davenport Lyons letter I can attest that it is a shakedown, and that they're pretty unscrupulous in their dealings, but I wouldn't call this a "smoking gun" for the activities you're describing.
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The implication, however, is that because they had express permission to disseminate that data, anyone they seeded to was downloading legally. Given the fragmented nature of bittorrent, I'm not sure how this would play out, but still.
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It looks like they are taking Mike's advice after all!
1. Submit files to file sharing sites
2. People download it
2a. Sue people for infringement
2b. Downloaders are free marketing force
3. PROFIT!
Looks like we've all been fooled.
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I'd love to see someone defend this properly. Let the rights holders explain to the court how it's "unauthorised" downloading if they put it there in the first place. Surely placing the film on a P2P network is an invitation to download, and therefore authorised? At least there would be a reasonable doubt introduced as to whether the defendant would be aware that the content, placed on a searchable public network by the copyright owners, was not intended to be downloaded.
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Yea, if they have the right to distribute, then how can any one who downloads the content be sued. That would be like getting sued for renting a movie from Blockbuster (ie. Blockbuster has the right to distribute, but you don't have the right to rent).
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Re:
you don't have the right to rent
QUIET! You'll give them ideas!
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Okay, who's got a list of the movies listed in Appendix 1? Apparently it's perfectly legal to download them via torrent, as they were authorized to be shared by the copyright holder, so whoever's got that list, spread it around!
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from freebeagles.com, on UK entrapment law: "The fact that the accused was entrapped is not inconsistent with their having broken the law. The entrapment will usually have achieved its object in causing the prohibited act with the necessary guilty intent."
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Immunity
IANAL, but I think the agreement is just granting immunity to DigiProtect, since in order to detect uploaders, they have to download the copyrighted material from them.
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so if you're so hell-bent on protecting your content, then why are you making it available online. I suspect the content holders see the extortion for what it is, a new source of revenue. This needs to be brought before a judge, let them explain how their content is so valuable and piracy is such an issue, that they are paying a third party to freely distributing their own content.
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Well, if they granted this company the exclusive right to distribute the stuff on P2P, that's no defense for the extortion victims, because of the way P2P works: In order to download the goods you have to simultaneously upload them to others as you get the pieces yourself... They threaten to sue you for that act of uploading, or distributing, as you download, not for the downloading.
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Making porn available to minors
In effect by making this file available on p2p, thye ahev in effect made this hard core movie available to minors.
This is for sure now a child protection issue that needs to be addressed by the Police here in the UK as well as child related welfare organisations.
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Question
What is the source of this document? Where is it and is it a "real" doc? I hate when an exerpt is posted with no access to the entire publication (document or otherwise). And the lack of a trailing period raises question to its authenticity.
I'm sure that RIAA, MPAA, BSA has similar agreements with their legal teams. For purposes of documentation they would have to download an entire file to ensure it is actually the file in question. Of course it could be argued that the legal firm would not neccessarily "HAVE" to upload the file (uploads can be turned off entirely on most programs).
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Re: Immunity
reading comprehension is good too. Permission to make the movies available doesn't mean downloading info. That means sharing it to the website.
You are not a lawyer, and it's a good thing based on what you read.
Nobody has or can or will be sued for downloading material. It's a debate about being sued for sharing material.
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I got one of these letters today for apparently downloading music
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Could someone get a class-action lawsuit going against Davenport Lyons for their extortion?
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Entrapment Then extortion
Then execute
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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong...
Entrapment is only for law enforcement officials.
In this case, all the complaints are null and void and you can legally download the content of whomever is a party to that contract. They signed away the distribution rights online and DIGIPORT was told to spread it far and wide.
You can't reasonably expect, under the UK or US law system anyways, to "distribute" something without people having received it.
I expect the discovery stage of some lawsuits may turn very interesting.
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Heh entrapment aside, sounds like distribution rights to me in which case any down load would be fine :).
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Re:
Yeah, but how is this any different from photographers putting photos on FLIKR then getting all worked up about infringement when someone uses one of their photos in a spoof video? [can't find the link to the story]
Don't get me wrong, I feel strongly that a copyright holder putting content on publicly accessible areas of the web is a defacto invitation to the public copy at will. Nevertheless, these guys are engaged in some really sleazy tactics that will likely get them disbarred.
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For those too lazy to click on links
Here is the link to the full contract:
http://www.zahnarzt-dr-mueller.com/Vertrag_Digi/Vertrag.pdf
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i would have thought of that considering all the efforts by the p2p communities to detect and block all nown IPs related to organization such as the IAAs.
im sure most of you heard of Peer guardian all ready also all P2P software ive used you have an IPfilter.
then again it could be a new trend.
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Re: Re:
You're missing the mark a bit here. To compare the two accurately, the photographer would have to be suing anyone who viewed their photos on Flickr. In both cases, the distribution to the end user was authorized by the copyright holder.
To see the Davenport Lyons cases as comparable to the Flickr photographer case, you'd have to have people taking the distributed games, remixing them into their own software, releasing the software, and then having D.L. suing them.
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Re: Re:
Ideas for what? Sinking the final nails into their own coffins?
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Divided we Fall
Though questionable, one thing is certain, the attorneys will make a pile trying to enforce it. They are the constant winners of these litigation tactics. I saw it coming to this a loooong time ago with the first patent troll cases. Trolls trolls trolls. There, I said it.
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If the material was uploaded by the copyright holder, then any copying is authorised copying and is legal.
If davenport Lyons send out threatening letters saying it's illegal copying, they are telling lies. Which is illegal under the Fraud Act 2006.
And if DigiProtect were in on it, then they are members of a criminal conspiracy.
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Re: Or it could be that . . .
hey we received the same letter from Davenport too. What happened to your friend? What did he do?
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People, I read a lot of you talking about Davenport Lyons and that a few of you personally know some of the victims of their tactics.
Now, there is 4 of us living together, and we, as a household, have received one of those letters.
What is the latest update on this issue? Do they follow up on their threats or what? What did your friend do? Pay up? Ignored the letter? Defended themselves in court?
I am reading a lot of opinions, suggestions, comments, but I would appreciate something more factual. Moderators comments very welcome as well, maybe you know better!
Thank you in advance!
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Re:
Take 'em to court. Get a state appointed lawyer, and point this news article out to them. Sue them for damages and for stress caused by the letter.
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Re:
Seriously, file suit before they can so you can make certain it's filed in a juristiction that is both local, and sympathetic to you
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Re: Re: Or it could be that . . .
The friend in question is the phone bill payer in a flat of 3, and they often have guests over who use the internet (geek flat) - amongst a bunch of other issues that have been gone over often, we asked them to identify which person using the connection was allegedly infringing (bear in mind UK copyright law requires you to be the infringer or to have given explicit permission you to be liable). Their response was that my friend should seek legal advice, or maybe just pay up because it was cheaper that way. My friend responded pointing out they'd addressed nothing, and DL finally came back with what looked like a stock "secure-your-wireless-connection" response to the wireless defense (which we hadn't used, but obviously others had).
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This blog confused me.
"But in a leaked contract between DigiProtect and one copyright holder..."
"It's hard to see how that's not a massive abuse of copyright law."
We should be outraged! We should put all these people in jail (on computer fraud charges, no less)! We should fight back!
Nah, we should just accept this as typical business operations which have been going on for years. You make it sound like this is something new and we should worry it's happening in this country.
Well, let me put those worries to rest: It IS happening here, and just like in the UK, it's also intentional.
This is what happens when companies take it upon themselves to use loopholes in the system (THEY didn't upload the file, so they used someone else) to gain revenue via other means.
Or does this economic crisis teach you nothing?
Why do you think I don't buy music or movies anymore? Do you think I want to give up my entertainment? Of course not! But with NO ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS, I'm stuck with my old library of movies and games to "entertain" myself until these industries quick screwing over consumers.
So don't sit here and try to scare the public this could happen, especially without giving them options to address it.
As long as consumers buy these industry's products, the more stories like these you will "print" to the world.
Nothing should shock you anymore at the practices these businesses take to generate "revenue".
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legal scmmers
Davenport Lyons appear to be part of a conspiracy to defraud downloaders, follow link for more insight into their activities.
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Re: This blog confused me.
Maybe we shouldn't be shocked, but we should be outraged. We shouldn't "just accept this as typical business operations," even if it is typical. We should fight against such despicable actions.
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Porno
Does anyone read the contract? This is about pornographic movies! You have all been suckered!
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?
Im not really sure what to think anymore. Visit P2P Tech Time (Click Me)
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p2p scammers
i've just received one of these letters and am a little confused weather to pay up now or investigate it further. it sounds a bit fishy!
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DL and Digiprotect
So - I have a letter also - do I pay up and make them go away, or do I ignore/shred it ? £500 is quite a lot of money.... What's my peace of mind worth?
The letter is very explicit in that they are complaining about about having been able to download a file from my computer - not that I have downloaded from elsewhere - I'd very much be interested in knowing if they have a leg to stand on here (specifically under UK law). I certainly don't have the the file now - not even very sure I ever did, but it's not impossible...
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this is bollocks....do you really think they will be able to sue all the people illegally downloading. no chance. thinking they send out 100's of 1000's of letters to people all over the world and make a good chunk of cash from the fools that pay. dont pay...simple as that. have done exstensive research on this company and read 100's of forums. cant read that anyone have ever been fined. (or maybe that one german lady for downloading some pinball game) coinsidence that she is german....i think not.
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Davenport Lyons
i had a letter just like yours about downloading a music track called scooter- jumping all over the world, they are asking for £505.20. On 17th wednesday, November this year.
we need advise from yourself's?
ASAP
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davenport lyons
not knowing legal stuff i sent off a cheque but i did a little research and it seems a bit dodgy after reading plenty of messeges about people saying don't pay it. i've put a stop on the cheque and only hope i don't here from them again. i can't even get into their website, if they've got one that is!
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Re: DL and Digiprotect
I've also had the letter and I know I downloaded it.. the claim is that I made it avaialable to others. Trading standards checked it out (some) and it seemed legal to them so I think I'm going to pay BUT everywhere I read people say not to, BUT again I can't see anyone following up with I got a letter, there is a chance I was seeding it and I didn't pay and I didn't get taken to court! I'd love to see/hear from anyone that has a definitive answer!
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Good info
If you've been sent a letter then check out this link for the Slyck forums, plenty of info there...
http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=66
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Re: Davenport Lyons
Hi we also had the letter for d/l the same album. I work at the Citizens Advice and went in in floods of tears. My colleagues had a look and adivsed me to pay it which I sent recorded post. Its made us brok and my parents are lending me the money.
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Re: Re: DL and Digiprotect
Hi,
We also had the letter. I work at the Citizens Advice and they checked it out for me and they said it was unfortunate but i should pay it. Its really upset me. Make sure you get proof of posting and monitor your bills. Glad we are not alone in this predicament buts its one hell of wad of cash to fork out just before Christmas.
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Re: davenport lyons
Hi did you sign the agreement they sent and returned.
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davenport lyons
i've just recieved a letter about downloading the scooter album, which i new nothing about. I questioned my 17 year old son and 21 year old daughter about it and it appears my son downloaded the album who says there was no warning that it was not free to download
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my mum also recieved a letter from davenport lyons to pay the amount on £505 becuase i downloaded the scooter-jumping all over the world album, i was outraged as it was on the website which alows you to download from , but i think there saying ive gotta pay up because everyone else as downloaded it from me, they sent a letter to BT to get my address and details on the 28th march 2008 , OH AND I DIDNT DOWNLOAD THE ALBUM UNTILL 5TH MAY 2008 , which they say came out in october time in the uk which it actually came out it april may time in the uk , myself i think the letter is a scam but i am going to make an apointment with a solicitor to see what they say.
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Davenport Lyons
I've got the letter too. KC informed me months ago that a court order had been made for my details for sharing adult content videos. I was devestated and rang DL who wouldn't discuss it but said I would get a letter in about 3 weeks. When it got to 4-5 months I thought it was maybe just a warning and relaxed a bit.
Now the letter from DL states I shared Scooter, Jumping all over the world using Bittorent (don't know if I've spelled that right). Obvously as a 59 year old I haven't heard of these. My son swears he did not download it and hasn't heard of bittorent although he does admit to limewire.
We can't afford £525 and I certainly am not signing the form to say I will delete it from my computer, I feel that is admiting I did it. Just to be clear I did not download anything.
If a solicitor costs £500 to act for you and you could still have to pay, what's the point?
I did ring KC to ask why I wasn't told if someone was using my connection illegally but got no sensible reply to that.
I really don't know which way to turn but am hanging on until the last minute to see if DL will be exposed as I feel it is a scam. They know I can't prove I or anyone else didn't do it.
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Davenport Lyons
Luke
Thanks to your comment about the dates not adding up I have checked my own letter and it's the same. The letter was sent on 28 March 2008 together with a schedule showing I downloaded on 4 April 2008.
There is definately something very wrong and in everything I've read I've not noticed anyone else pick up on the dates.
I'm going to be busy tomorrow, calling anyone I can think of.
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it does sound a bit dodgey , they sent a a copy of the surposed court letter with my letter about the download which i did not hear about them even going to court about it, and when my mum phoned BT they said they did not no anything about it, i reckon some pricks have hacked onto systems and printed the relevant copys and sent them to hundreds of inocent people, ive been told to chuck the letter in the bin and forget about it but if i do this then i get another letter saying ive gotta pay thousands i wont be happy , so ill be on the phone to the solicitors tomorrow to get advice , ill let you know what they say , and why is it only scooters album ? lol
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Why only Scooters album, I certainly wouldn't have bought it.
I've tried KCom, can't even get to talk to anyone except customer call centre and they know nothing.
I don't want to end up in court so I'm going to contact whoever I can to try to get help.
Do let me know what the solicitors say, thanks
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scooter davenport letter
i also downloaded scooter but never shared it they want £505 cant pay wont pay on incapacity benefit can just make ends meet now so what can they do to me its going in the bin
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Online advice for people
Hi, all.
This has previously been mentioned, but there is a discussion forum about this at Slyck.
In particular, there are two summary threads "Davenport Lyons - what can we do as a group?" and also "Davenport Lyons - I've received a letter what do I do?". There is also a discussion thread there.
I encourage all those falsely accused to write to their MPs, MEPs and news outlets as detailed in the second link. Also, the third link is a collection of information about how you might want to handle yourself.
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I've contacted Watchdog and they have been in touch and are taking an interest as they have had a few complaints.
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i have done the same lol
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Re:
my letter is the same dates as yours, i bet the time is the same as well 17.50. makes you wonder if this is just a templet letter.
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i say there full of shit , its prob just some dickhead hacking in to things and gettin information to scam money the pricks ,
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i sent a cheque off then put a stop on it because it sounded suspicious, now i've got a letter from d.l saying they've received the cheque and will draw it out in the next seven days. i'm just gonna hang tight and see what happens.
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Re: Davenport Lyons
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booooooooooo cancel the cheque
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my grandad has rang davenport lyons and they just said every solicitors are doing it and im just the first to have to pay up , i say fuck em , what do you lot say ?
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I got a letter ages ago from Davenporn Lyons, not for the crappy scooter crap or rubbish porn. Twas some cheap crappy xbox game and I swear on baby jesus's life I didn't do it!
Luke I totally agree and I would suggest in the arse. They are no different to any criminal scammer!
I feel companies and artists have a right to protect their work but this isn't the way.
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Re:
Precisely. Everyone else commenting here should read your post more carefully. Downloading is NOT the problem. It's the sharing at the same time that they're chasing people for.
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I'd like to see somebody counter-sue these crooks for serious money. They certainly have it.
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Re: Making porn available to minors
That's a very good point. Somebody with the available resources and knowledge who is unconnected with this scam, and who has children, could sue these scammers for making hard core pornography freely available on a public network with criminal disregard for child protection.
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Its hit Newsbeat today. I am in a total quandary with it all. I took it to work who said it was above board and sorry but you have to pay it and now I am not so sure. Yes I admit we did d/l the album but if my hard earned money is just going to help the porn industry i am not happy.
Just checked our credit card and its still pending and just dont know what to do for the best???
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Giving it away
So really, they are contracted to give it away. In IP protection law, the easiest way to circumvent costly legal fees associated with registering IP is to hold a public forum or publish your IP in a journal, making it impossible for anyone to later register it. Is this not similar. Give it away, then try and "charge" for it later?
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DL
get yourselves a "posse" and go and set fire to the DL offices. that will stop them sending letters out, failing that save yourselve 400 quid and buy a 100pound car and drive it through the main entrance. make sure you are wearing trainers though to leg it. OH and wear gloves!
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hey guys davenport lyons was on watchdog tonite they did a big video about it , a guy said they cant do anything with just an ip address they will need to come to our houses and look onto out harddrive to find us guilty i was so pleased when i got told it was on watchdog lol that should save me 500 quid , if they wanna come to my house and scan my hard drive all i need to do is wipe it which has already happend or geta new computer so basically there fuckiing fucked
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My 21 day dead line has passed and I have not paid!! It is worrying me but I'm not going to pay for something I haven't done.
Saw Watchdog and wish now I'd taken up there request to go on film as they could check my computer anytime.
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yey fuck em , doubt there gonna go all over england to check peoples computer and find nothing they will waste more money , will just wait and see if you get another letter mum telling you have to pay but i reckon you will be fine
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peerguardian 2
hi all can anyone tell me if peer guardian 2 really blocks your i.p address its what im usuing now thanks
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im using that now, if you go on history then click blocked it will show you who and what its blocked lol its looks pretty good
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Re: davenport lyons
great idea,im all for a class action lawsuit againts davenport lyons,lets get the ball rolling
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