Good News! Shoot 'Em Up Video Games Don't Make Us All Killers!

from the in-case-you-didn't-notice dept

While people are busy debating whether or not driving video games turn people into bad drivers, I'm sure everyone will be happy to know that violent video games don't turn children into killers. Jack Thompson must be so disappointed. This sounds like a more academic version of the point that a few people made two years ago, noting that as violent video games have become more popular, youth violence has actually decreased. This particular study looked at youth homicides and found that in the past ten years, as violent video games grew more popular, the rate has decreased 77%. The person who did the research notes that video games probably are close to meaningless compared to "community and family violence, suburban alienation and less parental involvement." Of course, that doesn't make for nearly as interesting headlines as being able to blame random school shootings on video games, rather than angry messed up kids.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    identicon
    Bang Bang You're Dead!!!, Mar 2nd, 2007 @ 9:42pm

    Kill em all

    FIRST POST!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 2nd, 2007 @ 9:57pm

    second post!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    identicon
    Chris, Mar 2nd, 2007 @ 10:12pm

    No what turns people into killers are those who get fed up with the constant stupidity of humankind that makes them then decide no one is worthy of life, such as the morons who always shout out first post.

    And as far as video games making people bad drivers, ask the dad of a 7 year old kid who pulled his van over 3 lanes of traffic on a freeway when he had heart attack if it makes them a bad driver.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    identicon
    Grandfather Time, Mar 2nd, 2007 @ 10:43pm

    Hmmm....

    If your kid is too busy playing first person shooters, he won't have time to shoo this classmates....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    identicon
    Pete, Mar 2nd, 2007 @ 11:37pm

    Yay! I'm not a killer!.
    Not to advocate usless studies that do nothing more than prove the obvious, but maybe if more of this type of study is done, then stupid lawmakers might wake up and stop pushing for banning of violent video games.
    Dang that was a long sentance.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    identicon
    ScytheNoire, Mar 2nd, 2007 @ 11:58pm

    Well Duh

    How is this even news. Any psychologist worth a dollar can tell you that violence is instilled in someone at a young age from their parents and surroundings, and whether their life has value and meaning. someone who has nothing, no hope for a future, and is raised in a screwed up environment surrounded by drugs, alcohol and abuse, is going to end up screwed up and violent. Poverty and bad parenting is the cause of more violence than any video game in the history of video games. Religion is responsible for more violence than any video game.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    identicon
    joe, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 12:16am

    yeah. people that get excited about leaving the first post are LAAAAAME. they upset me so much that i feel i have to mention it... victimhood is attention.. right?

    SEVENTH POST! WOO HOO!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    identicon
    Billy, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 12:18am

    This study says nothing of a video game's effect on children, and instead points out a correlation between decreasing violence and increasing video game usage. I'd fashion it quite foolish to believe that any media, regardless of content, has no effect whatsoever on the user.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    identicon
    Billy, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 12:19am

    This study says nothing of a video game's effect on children, and instead points out a correlation between decreasing violence and increasing video game usage. I'd fashion it quite foolish to believe that any media, regardless of content, has no effect whatsoever on the user.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    identicon
    Williamg, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 3:01am

    I don't think video games have much of an effect on a persons psyche. If you're crazy before you start, then you'll be crazy when you finish.. You are who you are before and even after playing a game like GTA

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    identicon
    |333173|3|_||3, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 3:10am

    Stress relief

    It maight help slightly by providing alternaltive stress relief: fragging a bunch of othre gamers is much more fun and less uncivilised than getting pissed, fighting, and spending the night in A&E or the police station drying out.

    At least I know I am not likely to start running around a bulding shooting people just because I have played SoF II. Now I just need a study to prove that just because I read the BOFH I will not turn into a blackmailer, murder, petty thief, grand thief, fraudster, gambler...

    Maybe the more sedentary lifestyle of young gamers means that they are not out on the streets getting involved in gangs, so reducing the level of violent crime.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    identicon
    Igor, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 3:54am

    No correlation

    Two statistics stated in cause and effect fashion are meaningless.

    The number of teachers in my community went up by 30% in the last decade. The amount of whiskey sold in my community also went up by 30%.

    Those two facts stated this way makes it look like the rising number of teachers is causing the rise in whiskey consumption.

    However, the reason for the rise in both of the statistics is the overall increase in population of the community, showing that just because two things appear to be correlated doesn't make it so. Look at the bigger picture to get cause-effect, not small statistics that give only half the story.

    I am NOT saying that violent games cause violent behavior, I just think the issue is much deeper than the summary given here.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    identicon
    Jess, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 4:02am

    Re: Idiots

    No what turns people into killers are those who get fed up with the constant stupidity of humankind that makes them then decide no one is worthy of life

    Tech Rage at its finest!!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 6:17am

    True Grit

    As John Wayne playing Rooster Cogburn in "True Grit" said, "A gun that ain't cocked and loaded isn't good for much of nothin'."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 6:25am

    Re: No correlation

    Igor you miss the point.

    All of the studies showing a link from vg's to violence do exactly that. Some twisted little monkey shoots up a mall, and the first thing they do is look for what video games he plays.

    They always seem to miss the fact that game sales have increased exponentially, while youth violence has decreased. Either way, if the anti-game studies were correct, the violence should be increasing dramastically.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 6:25am

    Re: True Grit

    The official quote, "well, a gun that ain't cocked and loaded ain't good for nuthin!"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 6:26am

    Re: Re: No correlation

    hehehe, I invented a new word today dramastically...I meant dramatically but was thinking drastically and merged the two together.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    Norman, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 7:04am

    Re: Billy

    Dude, you have no clue. Howmuch cartoon violence have you watched as a little kid? Howmuch violence have you acted out as a kid with your playmates. Remember games like War, Cops and Robbers, cowboys and Indians? Howmuch film/TV violence have you watched in your life? Are you now a killer, rapist, drug abuser, a theif, a pinmp, or a generally violent person? If you posted this from prison then I guess I'm wrong and I'll STFU. But if you are none of the these things then guess what? Media has had very little effect on your development. It boils down to how you are raised and/or neglected. It's too easy to place the blame on external things than it is to accept resp for your own failure. This is specially so in the case of parents. Most can not deal with being informed they are screwing up their kids. that they are horrible parents. Marinate upon this on the tree of woe.... (CONAN ROCKS!!!!)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    identicon
    StuCop, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 7:10am

    But...

    How we will protect the children? :p

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    identicon
    Norman, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 7:25am

    Oh Yeah let's not forget

    Most criminals come from broken homes. Another indicator of what it takes produce these kinds of people. To blame video games for this is nuts. There were kids involved in violent crimes long before the advent of video games. I remember back in the 80's when they tried to say D&D caused teens to comit suicide. If you bother going to the DOJ site and look and crime stats you'd see crime has been dropping not rising.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    PhysicsGuy, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 8:15am

    Re: No correlation

    while this, naturally, isn't a study that shows any kind of cause and effect, it does hint towards the notion that video games don't cause people to be violent. given your example, if there's a study that shows a correlation between teacher increase and increase in whiskey consumption after someone makes the claim that an increase in teachers causes a decrease in whiskey consumption, while the study doesn't show that teachers cause an increase in whiskey consumption, it demonstrates that the claim "an increase in teachers causes a decrease in whiskey consumption" could very well be false. if teachers caused a decrease in whiskey consumption you wouldn't see the correlation between the two be +1 as given in your example. nobody who made this claim said video games are responsible for the decrease in violence, but if playing violent games caused an increase in violence, naturally you'd see a correlation between playing violent games and an increase in violence, this correlation isn't there. given that the correlation is on the negative, it's pretty safe to proclaim that violent video games do not cause people to commit violent acts.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    identicon
    frankie, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 9:05am

    Re: ummm

    wow u make my nipples hard!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 10:51am

    Wow Great News

    Wow great news Glad to see that i wont turn into a manic killer when Halo 3 is released....

    I wonder what dorpus would say....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 11:01am

    At #6

    This is 'news' because its the first quasi 'official' report supporting fans of violent video games. Rather than the fans arguing it, you now have someone with glasses and a labcoat to calm down the angry m others of white suburbia that GTA isnt making their 14 year old a kiiller. Though they probably missed the part about 'less parental involment' and daddy beating him. Guess its gonna go back to that evil evil rock n roll since no one in a labcoat said that was safe...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    identicon
    Mike, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 11:28am

    Re:

    Chris, what are you talking about? Are you implying that people who say, "first post" are killers? I fail to see your logic.

    Your second point seems to lack in the Logic Department as well; how can you take an isolated incident and use that as your argument that video games do not make people bad drivers. I suppose that is why there are researchers doing actual statistical analysis whereas you are just voicing whatever comes to your mind first.

    That said, I complete agree with the research above, violent games don't make people kill, driving games don't make people drive badly.... but Chris, your statements are so, so flawed.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    identicon
    Cixelsid, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 2:35pm

    Hooray!

    I just finished watching "This Movie has not been Rated" and I fully agree with a lot of the comments in that film, e.g. the rating system for violence should be inverted, currently the less blood you have in a film or game the lower your rating, which implies that violence is ok as long as there is no indication to consequence. Anyway this doesn't have a lot to with this topic but I just finished watching the movie and I'm all pumped up, I think I'll play some GTA and shoot some cops while standing on a garage door, maybe afterwards I'll dry hump my black girlfriend who likes driving around the suburb and shooting at "busters". Yo!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    identicon
    XCetron, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 2:42pm

    Yea kids now a day can just take pleasure into killing things on the screens instead of real people. After all, we have realistic graphics now and in a decade or so we can have virtual reality where kids can kill each other virtually online. Think of the deathrate going down.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 3:42pm

    DUH!

    Gee, it took them this long to FINALLY figure out something video gamers have been saying for a long time now. Of course video games don't turn you into a killer. What does however is the environment a child is in and the lack of discipline a parent gives their child. When you have a kid that you know has anger problems, you don't teach them how to work a gun. Oh well now there is actual proof to shut the morons up! YAY for common sense!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    identicon
    Raina, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 3:53pm

    Haha, you'd better believe it!
    Sorry, lol.
    But blaming murdurous acts on virtual entertainment is just as bad as saying that beliefs other than your own are evil. For those of you who are of the "On man" A.K.A. "God" faith judge people then you are going against your own teachings. I used to be a Christian and in the Bible it states that judging is bad.
    Basicly, religion is on of the main causes of real violence, not something you see on a damned screen.
    By claiming that video games are the cause shows that you're merely a coward who can't find but your own feeble attempts at making an ACTUAL point. And in the end, those feeble attempts are all that you have left in life.

    -Raina the Sweet Shadow

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    identicon
    Scarker, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 6:53pm

    The REAL Inconvenient Truth

    Video games wouldn't have any where near as much influence in a child's development if only one thing wasn't true: Parents have gotten lazy.
    It's come to the point where parents can hand their kid something to teach them (for example: Leapster) and they can be said to have raised their child. Teaching≠Raising, that's a fact. You want a kid to turn out right, spend time with them, watch movies with them, heck resort to drastic measures and read 'em a fricken book!
    Allow me to (attempt to) quote Triple X, on the sobject of video games: It's the only education we got. It's not exaduration (even if I can't spell), we can get knowledge from school, but with parents taking a 'step back and watch 'em go' approach more and more, where are we supposed to get our morals from? Video games are convenient, and even if they're not the best, they're what's there. People seem to miss that, even with all these studies they're doing.
    Ya... Well, that's said, I'ma go be all broody in a corner now... You have no idea how much further I could take this rant...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    Jeffrey, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 8:02pm

    Ugly/Stupid.

    No they don't make us killers. They are, however ugly, stupid and lame.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    n3rdkw, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 8:17pm

    What about SSBM?

    Why don't all the SSBM players all of a sudden transform into an awesome fighting machine and starts beating the sh*t out of someone on the street?
    And it would be helpful if they reported something that related the amount of violent video game murderers played verses the amount of violent video games a normal gamer played. Wow that was a convoluted sentence. I meant, Gamer's game time/type vs. Murderer's game time/type.
    We'll see how that turns out

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    Z, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 9:22pm

    Die

    I'll kill every poster here ONE BY ONE!
    YOU BASTARDERS!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2007 @ 11:28pm

    Re: Re: Billy

    I have no clue? On what authority did you make that statement? I actually did a research paper on this topic, and believe it or not I started out on everybody's side here. However, after doing a lot of research, I had to change my thesis.

    No, I don't believe playing video games makes you a killer. No, I don't think violent media has more of an impact than the parents. However, it's silly to say there's no effect at all on you, just because you're not especially outwardly violent yourself. Who knows what subconscious effects the media has had on people? I don't claim to know either, but you're being quite hasty in saying none.

    So you know, I'm a gamer myself. I used to be a huge one as a kid, but not so much anymore. The only game I've got in the past two years is Resident Evil 4 this Christmas (amazing by the way). Am I more violent for it? No. Am I still concerned that military has wanted to use games to desensitize troops, and that the USMC authorized the use of "Doom" for training? Yes. I firmly believe these games should be allowed to be created, played, and enjoyed; I just want to be thoughtful, cautious, and questioning about it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    identicon
    Cixelsid, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 1:32am

    Fantasy and Reality

    Dude, the thing is, if you can't distinguish between fantasy and reality then, video games or not, at some point you'll start crossing the barrier, with or without the media. THe problem starts at home.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    identicon
    pft, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 1:47am

    36th post

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    identicon
    misanthropic humanist, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 2:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Billy

    I'm with AC above on this matter. We should be cautious interpreting these findings, TFA does not specify a solid causal link between a reduction in youth violence and the profusion of video games. Perhaps we are becoming a less violent society in general. Perhaps the deterrence of law is more effective.

    For my own opinion, it's a nonsense that video games encourage real world civillian violence any more than watching cartoon violence does. However, I do think video games and violent films are instrumental on a much more subtle psychological level because they are propaganda devices.

    Let's take a step back and consider the audacious double standards at large in our countries. We are supposedly at war. Yes, it's a fake war, a war of aggression against defenceless tribesmen armed with primitive and improvised weapons, but a "war" it is nonetheless. In all wars domestic criminal violence decreases both during and immediately after the conflict, essentially because the aggressive members of society are thinned out, and those that do return are incapacitated and sickened by conflict.

    We have just exported our violence. Does the study include the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, Afgans, British and American kids killed in recent years? And for those who would like to dismiss that as irrelevant, think again, there is a very strong link between film/video game violence and war because our army uses them not only to train soldiers but to recruit young people.

    Bloody films and games may not directly influence a youngster to pick up a weapon and murder their classmates, but they surely have an influence on whether a kid chooses to sign up to kill and die in a foreign land. They are a cruel and evil deception in that regard. By the time an 18 year old finds out that real bullets hurt when they blow your arm off, there are no wallhacks, no end of round highscore, and no respawn, it's too late. Were this not the case our governments and military would not invest so heavily in them.

    Nothing new here of course, propaganda films depicting war as glorious and the enemy as weak and easily killed were around in 1942.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Former USRA active, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 4:53am

    Films don't teach you about war

    "Yes, it's a fake war, a war of aggression against defenceless tribesmen armed with primitive and improvised weapons, but a "war" it is nonetheless."


    You, sir, are a clueless moron. I'd LOVE to see you say that to one of the men in my battalion and see what happens. I'd imagine you'd have no face left after we took out our grief on it.
    "Defenceless" you aren't even an American. You're, what, a Brit? Who just pulled out all your troops?
    Why the hell are there always these window-licking retards around, popping out of nowhere to give their long-winded idiotic opinions on things they don't know about anyway?
    It's always nice to hear what people have to say about war when they know next to nothing about it's true nature.

    As for the subject at hand, I played a lot of cowboys and injuns when I was a kid and I fail to see the difference between that, and a video game. Sigmund Freud once said (paraphrased) that to think a child was not intensely serious about his dream-world during play would be an incredibly large mistake.

    The play hasn't changed, only the dream-world. Fact of the matter is, the dream-world has become a tool now that teaches motor skills and problem solving, which is a good thing. The bad thing being that the teenage parents who are still in friggin' high school who depend on the PS2 and grandma to teach and rear their idiot children. It's almost enough to disprove Darwin's most famous theory.

    This is not hard to understand.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 5:54am

    The best quote I heard on this:

    After playing Super Mario Bros. 2 for two weeks straight, do you think a kid will go out and pull up a field of real turnips?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    identicon
    misanthropic humanist, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 6:29am

    Re: Films don't teach you about war

    "I played a lot of cowboys and injuns when I was a kid and I fail to see the difference between that, and a video game."

    The difference is physical activity. Running around is great for kids as it builds stamina and fitness, while video games are physically passive. The former acts as a release for adrenaline and producer of endorphine peptides which reduce stress and promote a healthy cardio-vascular system, while the latter leads to obesity, frustration and in excess serious ill health.

    It is true that many video games promote increased spacial awareness, navigational capabilities and sharpen reaction times. Many studies have shown this very strongly. But are you suggesting that real physical activity somehow does not lead to improved motor skills and problem solving? If so you need to revise that idea. Real play activities give all of the benefits of a simulated experience plus many others.

    I think you picked the wrong person to randomly mouth off at
    and make assumptions about. My family are some of those who pick up the pieces. I may not be qualified to pronounce on the causes of war, and I suggest neither are you, but I am qualified to talk about the effects.

    You might care to consider them.

    Post traumatic stress disorders.
    Sleep disturbance and nightmares.
    Alcoholism and drug abuse.
    Depressed self esteem.
    Social stigma and alienation.
    Toxic effects of battlefied agents (eg. Gulf war syndrome).
    Damage to intimate relationships.
    Increased risk of suicide.
    Homelessness and financial degeneracy.
    Domestic violence toward spouse and children.
    Panic attacks.
    Hypervigillance and profound physical insecurity.
    Respiratory problems.
    Early appearance of hearing difficulties.

    We could go on... but I'm sure you get the picture. And those are just the ones who didn't actually kill anyone.

    The hardest part of "supporting the troops" is extending compassion and understanding for those that come home after the battle, not jingoistic flag waving and tough talk while they're out there dying.

    I spent 2 Christmas weeks working the homeless shelters. 80% of those we bring in are males 20-35 and about 30% of those I've personally spoken to are ex servicemen. Refugees, heroin addicts and middle class alcoholics all fare better than the ex soldiers. Nothing fucks you up more. The costs to society are enormous and conveniently ignored by those cowards who shout the loudest for war.

    "I'd LOVE to see you say that to one of the men in my battalion and see what happens. I'd imagine you'd have no face left after we took out our grief on it."

    You're not one of the men in your battalion then? ;)

    Argument against violence by appeal to violence. Not very good. I never met a single person who saw active combat since WW2 that defends it, the reasons for it, and that includes chaps from conflicts in Vietnam, Korea, Malasia, East Timor, Falklands, Bosnia and Iraq.
    Or are you seriously here to promote violence and killing? If so you just lost my respect dude.

    That aside, your remarks about Freud and the decline of physical vigour in the Darwinian sense are spot on the money.

    And to address your title. Films don't teach you anything about war. That's my point. Propaganda is deception.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    identicon
    Overcast, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 9:00am

    Well now - don't let facts get in Jack Thompson's way!

    I'm sure he won't!

    We have just exported our violence.

    And I daresay - violence has been around far longer than this country and in the vast majority of cases - far worse than in this country.

    The US didn't invent the 'sucicide bomer', and 300 years ago - violence was far more commonplace in the lives of people than it is today. In Many countries it's still quite legal to kill your wife, daugther's - if they 'shame' the family. I'd think a son watching his dad kill a family member because it brought 'shame' to them, would be a bit more likely to effect one's mind than say - Halo or Doom.

    Just consider - we don't have public hangings, use of devices like the Iron Maiden, Rack, etc for public torture aren't used - at least openly in most Countries today. There are some exceptions, of course...

    Bloody films and games may not directly influence a youngster to pick up a weapon and murder their classmates, but they surely have an influence on whether a kid chooses to sign up to kill and die in a foreign land. They are a cruel and evil deception in that regard.

    Many, many, many more people died in the US Civil War, World War One, and World War 2 than in Iraq, period. World War two was the only one where TV really existed for the masses, and was far more tame. More people died during most battles in these wars than have in Iraq, in some cases more than the combined totals of this war, US and Iraqi.

    As a matter of fact, if you check your facts, you'll find more US servicemen died during the Clinton administation's years than have in Iraq to date, in any event.

    http://www.nysun.com/article/48926

    The total military dead in the Iraq war between 2003 and this month stands at about 3,133. This is tragic, as are all deaths due to war, and we are facing a cowardly enemy unlike any other in our past that hides behind innocent citizens. Each death is blazoned in the headlines of newspapers and Internet sites. What is never compared is the number of military deaths during the Clinton administration: 1,245 in 1993; 1,109 in 1994; 1,055 in 1995; 1,008 in 1996. That's 4,417 deaths in peacetime but, of course, who's counting?

    And Abortion kills far more children per year than video games and TV could ever dream of.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    identicon
    misanthropic humanist, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 11:34am

    Re:

    "The US didn't invent the 'sucicide bomer'"

    I don't believe anybody's ever claimed the US did Overcast. For what it's worth the earliest reference to suicide bombing I can recall comes from, of all places, here in my country, England.

    I'd like to stay on-topic in regard to video game violence but you raise a point that prompts me to share a bit of obscure knowledge with you, lest we forget our history and become guilty of hypocrisy.

    When things were looking desperate circa 1943, Churchill took a stance which in todays terms would be (incorrectly) labelled "terrorism". The Home Guard (innocently depicted in comedy Dad's Army) were the exact equivilent of todays "insurgents". Like many resistance armies the feeling was that the Germans would take England over the bodies of every last man woman and child in the country. The motto was "You can always take one with you". Local defence units were engaged in preparing improvised explosives made from farm and household chemicals. The idea was that you would walk up to a group of two or more German soldiers and blow yourself up along (hopefully) with them too.

    The second world war is the most romanticised and seldom portrayed in the brutal terms of its reality so it's become a piece of burried history that the English were prepared to engage in guerilla warefare to the last man in the event of an invasion. The United States has never faced an imminent land invasion and occupation, but I am absolutely sure that if it had Americans would put up exactly this kind of resistance too.


    "What is never compared is the number of military deaths during the Clinton administration: 1,245 in 1993; 1,109 in 1994; 1,055 in 1995; 1,008 in 1996. That's 4,417 deaths in peacetime.."

    That's fascinating, and for me it raises an objection to the use of the term "peacetime". Wars are no longer started and ended in neat "declarations" with the nicities of initiation and surrender, they blur into protracted campaigns without conclusion. The unpleasant truth is that the USA has been behind more of these low key wars than any other nation in history and has started scores of them since 1945. Effectively, the USA has never been at peace. The USA made no declaration of war against Iraq and so that war can never be "over".

    "World War two was the only one where TV really existed for the masses"

    Did you mean to say something else? Television wasn't invented before or during the second world war. In fact it greatly owes its existence to radar technology which appeared during that conflict and represents the first use of the cathode ray tube as a display device.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 10:04pm

    TV was up and running in 193(6? 8), first major thing aired was I believe the coronation of King George, it was local as where the few shows available in NY.
    The Olympic Games & Hitlers speech happened to be the first thing broadcast that actually left the earth and traveled into space (The movie Contact got that part right)
    It was a lot of politickings and changing the frequency's that killed the original sets and gave RCA free reign

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    identicon
    Duke, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 10:12pm

    The Sarah Brady crowd is seething.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 4th, 2007 @ 10:51pm

    Re: Well Duh

    "Well Duh by ScytheNoire: How is this even news. Any psychologist worth a dollar can tell you that violence is instilled in someone at a young age from their parents and surroundings..."

    Of course, but any psychologist worth $100k will tell you the opposite - its more sensationalist and gets spots on the nightly news when they tell a parent its because of the latest thing to blame (games now, rock music back in the 60's, etc)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Old Guty, Mar 5th, 2007 @ 5:30am

    Re: Re: Re: No correlation

    Sorry Anon. An employee of mine used the term "dramastically" in 1996. COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT...COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT...SOMEBODY GET ME A LAWYERHe worked for me therefore I own the word.. hehe

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    nerd, Mar 5th, 2007 @ 6:16am

    some one to blame

    every thing needs a skapegoat

    it dosent mater what it is
    >violence
    >drugs
    >alchocol
    >sex
    it dosent mater

    there is ALWAYS something that is to blame other than the actual cause because the actual cause would cause too many problems and complaints and arguments

    so stop complaining and work to stop stupid people from taking ofer the world!!!!!!!!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    Jim, Mar 5th, 2007 @ 8:25am

    Video games are just the latest knee jerk reaction by adults trying to generalize why Children do bad things. The idea that we are all emotion ticking time bombs waiting for the right trigger/situation to set us off, is far harder to deal with then "Violent Video Games Bad. They must be the Cause." Or my personal favorite back in the 40's when they blamed comic books for increased youth violence and crime.

    More people have been killed in the name of "God(s)" then anything else, and yet we don't see 'Soccer Moms' picketing Catholic Church, or Muslim Mosques for their histories of radical nut job violence. The problem is everyone wants to protect the children, but lets face it that just isn't going to happen. If we can't protect the President from getting 100% from being assassinated or shot (Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy, Reagan, etc.). What makes people think we are going to protect kids better then the guy with the best protection money can by? And all those guys were killed/shot before violent videos games were even made (unless someone wants to blame frogger for Reagan's shooting).

    You cannot protect your children you can do your best, but mostly parents have to be there to help with the aftermath. You support and love your kids and help them through the rough times. Your kids are going to suffer, you did, your parents did, suffering isn't bad if it helps you develop into someone that doesn't go out and cause suffering because you remember how it felt.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    identicon
    |333173|3|_||3, Mar 6th, 2007 @ 2:37am

    IRT 42 (misanthropic humanist): I think the idea was not simply defence to the last man but defence of Britian until there was nothing standing and not a single person left living . At that time the British were working on the use of Anthrax as a weapon, leading to an entire scottish island being contaminated for decades, and the genaral idea was to make occupation untenable.
    THe French Resisitance met many of the criteria of terrorisim used by the Bush administration, except for the fact that they were not against the US.

    IRT 43 (AC): Tthre was definitely TV in the London area before the war, since the first TV experiments were conducted at Alexandra Palace, and the antenna used for BBC broadcasts was used during the Battle of the Beams (see Prof. R. V. Jones, Most Secret War).

    IRT 40 (misanthropic Humanist):
    >>"I'd LOVE to see you say that to one of the men in
    >>my battalion and see what happens. I'd imagine you'd
    >> have no face left after we took out our grief on it."

    >You're not one of the men in your battalion then? ;)
    I would guess that either he is actually she or, more likely, "he" is an officer, so that the "men" are the other ranks and "we" is the battalion

    IRT 38:
    >"Defenceless" you aren't even an American. You're,
    > what, a Brit? Who just pulled out all your troops?
    I thought that you Yanks could use the word defenceless and spell it correctly. The comment about being defenceless is probably from a european or an Aussie, who have not lost any lives yet. Teh Brish reassigned the troops since they did not need them in thier sector anymore. Kindly do not forget that the UK is about 1/4 the size of the USA, and that the British army is also committed to a large number of other tasks, such as peacekeeping throughout the Near East, Afghanistan, and Africa, and meeting NATO obligations. THen there's NI police work, guard dutiies for US bases and other odds and ends. Also, the British army is a very small part of the Services, compared with other countries.
    OTOH, He is wrong that they are defenceless, especially since US troops did not guard the Iraqi Army's arsenals in thier sector after the invasion, and the IRanians are supposedly supplying the insurgency.

    IRT 37 (misanthropic humanist):
    Thier weapons are not exactly basic improvised weapons, except for the ANFO bombs. just because they use AKs does not make them less deadly than if they were carying NATO weapons. While the AK (both 47 and 74) is primitve, they are reliable and cheap, making them an ideal weapon for an insurgency, and as they are so common, the correct rounds are readily availiable. A simple gun can be a good thing, in fact the British Army used a bolt-action rifles as standard until long after the War, because the best infantrymen could fire faster with them than the Americans could withthier automatics, and for reliability.
    An ANFO (basic kerosine/NH4NO3 explosive) bomb is simple, easy to make from readily avaliable materials, and is perfectly good for the purpose.

    IRT 34: I would actually assume they use Doom III :-)
    THe game would be good for developing tactical nous, and teach the flaws of being predicatble. THis is beat exemplified by clans which find an effective tactic which is used every time a certain situation occurs. it does not take long for thier enemies to develop an understanding of the tactics, and it is not hard ot learn to beat them. When leaders, realise that, they will be less predictable.
    Gaming also teaches the advantage of cover and basic evaluation of terrain for lines of fire and approach/retreat routes, without anyone dying while you learn.

    IRT 21 (physics guy): this appears to be the case

    Well done for reading this far. as a reward you can have a flame at me for being too clever for your own good (and I do know what I just wrote).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    MeeToo, Mar 6th, 2007 @ 10:10am

    Whew, back to the topic..

    Ok, sure I play a game or two. But I don't let it consume me. I'm in my mid 30's and grew up on VG's, and I would like to think that I turned out alright. Haven't gone on shooting rampages for no apparent reason, stolen cars for a living, etc. Recently my local CeC (ChuckECheese) has remodeled and installed 5-6 shooting games. Ok, most appear innocent, shoot the frog off of the lily pad, etc. They have bright orange 9mm or revolvers, conveniently made small for the small hands of their main customers. While I don't believe that most of the patrons will become unmoralistic killers of society, I do not agree with them there. CEC is a place for 1-7 yo's. At this age, children do not need to be exposed to this type of game, which is supported by many organizations. Exposing the children, generally without parental supervision, markets this to them and instills a feeling that shooting things is ok, because it is here at CEC, and my parents must be ok with it, even if they don't know about it. I am all for responsible gun ownership and handling. This does nothing for properly educating children. The other problem with it, is the fact that now more older kids find out about it, and invade CeC. So, now the place has all this little kids (1-7), and now you start to see groups of 10-15 yo's hanging out for the cheap games. There are other places suited for their age groups to go. Let the little kids be little kids, they grow up fast enough as it is.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    IReborn, Mar 26th, 2007 @ 8:05am

    Reply

    I play rpg's and fps's for a living and honestly ive made some money off of the fps's....and there is some good that come out of video games besides bad grades stress and violence that interacts with the games....its a way to make friends...entertain yourself hgell even go to tournaments around the world which i have just started this year.. a professional video gamers source of income is just asd good as any...hell a ahlo 2 playner nick named walshy just the other year had an income of 75,000 dollers...i guess u can say its his full time job...u cant just look at the cons of gaming u have to look at the pros to

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    ur mums gay, Mar 28th, 2007 @ 6:12am

    hobos

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    Marquis, Apr 19th, 2007 @ 1:26pm

    It seems like your argument has little backing it up except an percentage. Unlike piles of evedience that say that violent videogames are harmful.
    A single paragrah isnt enough to aruge anything espically violent videogames

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Apr 24th, 2007 @ 7:09am

    yu all smell=]

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    identicon
    chris (not the one from above), May 13th, 2007 @ 6:21pm

    how the media may be hazardous to your health

    i may be new at this but i still know that any thing that anybody is exposed to will have an effect on them b/c they are taking it in as new (or old) information. i myself am an avid violent gamer and i havent been in a brawl since my preschool days. does that mean we should take action against the toddlers of the world? no b/c they arent smart enough to make that judgement and havent been exposed to anything violent and yet still find a way to be on mommy's good side at the end of the day. april 20 1999. eric harris and dylan klebold kill 13 and injure 23 others.just from watching bowling for columbine one can understand that violence is in the media b/c sex/guns/rock'nroll sells big $ and the big corporate executives know this and exploit it to get the six figures.for what? just so there can be another school shooting like virginia tech??
    referring to the comment made by "marquis" if your son/daughtre has played Gta or even if you have then you know that games with whores, crack,and guns to shoot inocent civilians is going to affect the mindset of anyone who plays it. marquis should be ashamed of him/herself for saying that videogames have no effect. im sorry for droning on and on.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    chris (not the one from above), May 13th, 2007 @ 6:22pm

    how the media may be hazardous to your health

    i may be new at this but i still know that any thing that anybody is exposed to will have an effect on them b/c they are taking it in as new (or old) information. i myself am an avid violent gamer and i havent been in a brawl since my preschool days. does that mean we should take action against the toddlers of the world? no b/c they arent smart enough to make that judgement and havent been exposed to anything violent and yet still find a way to be on mommy's good side at the end of the day. april 20 1999. eric harris and dylan klebold kill 13 and injure 23 others.just from watching bowling for columbine one can understand that violence is in the media b/c sex/guns/rock'nroll sells big $ and the big corporate executives know this and exploit it to get the six figures.for what? just so there can be another school shooting like virginia tech??
    referring to the comment made by "marquis" if your son/daughtre has played Gta or even if you have then you know that games with whores, crack,and guns to shoot inocent civilians is going to affect the mindset of anyone who plays it. marquis should be ashamed of him/herself for saying that videogames have no effect. im sorry for droning on and on.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    chris (not the one from above), May 13th, 2007 @ 6:22pm

    how the media may be hazardous to your health

    i may be new at this but i still know that any thing that anybody is exposed to will have an effect on them b/c they are taking it in as new (or old) information. i myself am an avid violent gamer and i havent been in a brawl since my preschool days. does that mean we should take action against the toddlers of the world? no b/c they arent smart enough to make that judgement and havent been exposed to anything violent and yet still find a way to be on mommy's good side at the end of the day. april 20 1999. eric harris and dylan klebold kill 13 and injure 23 others.just from watching bowling for columbine one can understand that violence is in the media b/c sex/guns/rock'nroll sells big $ and the big corporate executives know this and exploit it to get the six figures.for what? just so there can be another school shooting like virginia tech??
    referring to the comment made by "marquis" if your son/daughtre has played Gta or even if you have then you know that games with whores, crack,and guns to shoot inocent civilians is going to affect the mindset of anyone who plays it. marquis should be ashamed of him/herself for saying that videogames have no effect. im sorry for droning on and on.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    chris (see 55-57), May 13th, 2007 @ 6:25pm

    i only repeat the long meesage b/c people only skim over the message once and dont care. please read thoroughly. that is all.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    chris(see 55-58), May 13th, 2007 @ 6:31pm

    i extremely agree with the comment#50 by "meetoo". guns are being proposed to small children at the earliest of ages"meetoo"gets my thumbs up.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    isare, May 15th, 2007 @ 7:58am

    reply

    i agree i love violent video games but i'm not a violent person actually im very kind but people just want to blame video games because they are ignorant to the culture of the video games

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    luhnar, Sep 17th, 2007 @ 7:49am

    Re: Well Duh

    do you know that for a fact cuz i'm quoting you 4 aproject

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Kyle, Jan 5th, 2008 @ 7:37pm

    my opinion

    I personally love violent video games. I grew up with them. When I was six years old I would watch my dad play Duke Nukem and I got really into it. When I understood the controls, I started playing Carmageddon. I then got a N64 when it came out, and was instantly hooked on the 007 and Zelda games. I soon discovered Halo, and now I am almost constantly playing games like Gears of War, Halo 3, Call of Duty, and GRAW, yet I am one of the most non-violent people I know. I use video games to release pent-up stress so I don't lose control one day and break a kid's nose. They keep my mind off of the bad things in life; let me escape for a while. Video games also act as a social network. I have alot of the friends I do now because of video games, and nobody likes a kid with no friends. One of the main reasons a teen will go on a rampage is because they feel outcast.

    forgive the rant and life story, and thanks to all of you for helping with my high school debate.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Chris Bowen, Oct 23rd, 2008 @ 1:02pm

    I had no idea real life violence was going down as violent video games became popular



    63rd POST whoo-hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    RobotSquirrel, Feb 22nd, 2010 @ 9:58am

    Famous quote from Game Informer

    "The bad news is that you can't put out 'All you need is Love' by the Beatles to get world peace, and the good news is that FPS's don't turn people into killers."


    -Anonymous

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    Demogal, Mar 15th, 2010 @ 9:41pm

    Re: Well Duh

    dude u hit the spot. right on man.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    anoymous, Feb 22nd, 2011 @ 6:27am

    i

    66th post

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This