Best Buy Repeats Past Attempts At Unfairly Forcing Black Friday Prices Off The Web

from the cease-and-desist-just-for-the-hell-of-it dept

Back in 2002, we had a story about Wal-Mart forcing the site FatWallet to take down post-Thanksgiving sale prices, claiming they were a copyright violation. Of course, as everyone should know, you can't copyright facts -- and prices are facts. FatWallet fought back, challenging this abuse of the DMCA -- which forced Wal-Mart to backdown. The following year, other retailers, including Best Buy, Target and Kohl's threatened FatWallet again. Apparently, Best Buy learned absolutely nothing from the experience, as they've gone and threatened another site, BlackFriday, for posting the same information this year. Unlike FatWallet, however, BlackFriday has backed down and taken down the information -- even though they have no legal reason to. It's clear that Best Buy (whose lawyers clearly know better) are simply betting that in using a cease & desist DMCA claim, even if it's not valid, they can scare the site into taking the content down -- which is exactly what happened. That's a clear abuse of the DMCA, creating the famed "chilling effects." However, as it stands, there's simply no punishment for abusing the DMCA this way and there are few entities willing to actually stand up against such a misuse.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    novernetsbandit, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 1:51am

    hmm

    well if bestbuy doesnt want ppl to shop there on blackfriday maybe this is the best way to protest them.. Yes i live 2 miles from there corporate office and yes im going to go there to protest this tomorrow but still if you cant let your customers see your somewhat shitty add before hand then thats sad. i talked to store mgr of apple valley walmart they said the ads that are online are correct and walmart may lower some of there prices nationwide to compete. i think its better we know the truth before black friday!!!

     

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    SimplyGimp, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 2:18am

    Yeah....

    Feel free to go protest, I don't live near a corporate office of any sorts. So, this holiday season, one of these times I get smashed, I'll make a special stop to a local best buy where I will stealthily whip out my penis and take a leak in a corner in a very hurried manner. I will try to get this on film, but I can't promise much, I don't have a camera mane and the whole zipper operation could slow things down. I'll keep the 'movement' up-to-date.

     

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  3.  
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    hawggetter, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 2:45am

    best buy

    Wait until Dec 26, then take advantage of all the overstock reduced prices. I do a lot of my shopping that way for several items and hold them until special dates or next Christmas.

     

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  4.  
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    kuro, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 3:08am

    what

    You buy stuff a year ahead of time? I wait till the last minute because you never know who is going to die between now and Christmas. Think of all the wasted money.. oh, and.. won't some please thik of the children? If we knew what was onsale they could get more packages, more than last year, and isn't that the greatest measurement of Christmas cheer?

     

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    Bob, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 3:47am

    Yeah you go buy stuff a year ahead at Best Buy. Id love to be on your gift list getting year old technology for Christmas.

     

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    Sanguine Dream, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:25am

    Oh well...

    I live out in the boondocks and I refuse to blindly take the 2 hour trip to a Best Buy in hopes that they have good prices on things I'm looking for. If the prices were in the net I could look them up and if I saw a good deal I'd be willing to go out of my way for it.

     

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  7.  
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    Ordinator, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:36am

    Maybe we're wrong...

    I have a very interesting theory...

    First, recall stories about allofmp3.com; every attempt to shut it down make it go away, etc, only give it more popularity and more publicity, in the end driving more people there.

    Now in this case, what if Best Buy is ordering cease and desist warnings just to generate publicity (after all, any publicity is good publicity). If true, I don't think they intended for the ads to be removed, but it also created more buzz, and i driving more people to perhaps seek out the add (via file sharing, torrents, Usenet, or wherever) who otherwise would not have taken the time to check it out.

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:53am

    If you go to protest. Go peacefully, with a letter of complaint and an "open hand of friendship" attitude. "Protesting" has stigmas that have nearly completely destroyed the concept as a way to be constructive. Most companies just sit and wait for you to cross the line and have you hauled away if you're marching around with signs.

    Now if you go in, ask to speak with someone and you look mildly professional and you remain calm and friendly, are only there to "inform them of the benefit of the website they sent the notice to" you might get as high as a midlevel manager.

    Protesting needs a makeover. To impact corporate America, you need to play by their rules, which is look professional, act professional even if you want to punch them in the freaking head.

     

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  9.  
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    St Nick, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:54am

    Already In Trouble

    Best Buy is already going to be feeling the pinch of depressed sales due to their resistance to allowing "Merry Christmas" to be spoken instead of "Happy Holidays". Some readers here may not care, but Best Buy will learn - resistance is futile.

     

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  10.  
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    Dick Fer, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:55am

    Where's Fritz Hollings when you need him?

    Everyone thank your local power-hungry (liberal) senator. In this case, Fritz Hollings... the liberal who was "bought" by the big corporations. I find it amazing that 99% of liberals claim to despise big corporations, but when it comes down to it, they're perfectly willing to be bought to create needless legislation.

    Just remember, you can't trust any politicians.

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:00am

    I saw the ads before they were taken down and the prices weren't all that great. Based on last years door busters (saved $900 on items I planned to buy anyway), I figured I'd spend the night again this year. After seing the ad I'll probably stay home.

     

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  12.  
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    pudro, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:19am

    Re: Already In Trouble

    resistance to allowing "Merry Christmas" to be spoken instead of "Happy Holidays"

    So, on another Crusade, are we?

     

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    Sick of all the crap, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:29am

    I will not be shopping at either Walmart or Best Buy this holiday season. Walmart, for some reason, feels the need to dive into unnecessary and sensitive political issues like giving lots of money to gay activists, and Best Buy has done the same by removing "Merry Christmas" from their holiday advertising, lest they offend some stuck-up minority group members.

    The gays are destroying the traditional family, which is the backbone of our society for over 200 years (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), and the minority groups won't even let us observe our own holidays anymore. If I went to, for example, Israel, I'd expect to see Hannukah stuff all over, not Christmas. But I'm not in Israel, I'm in the USA, which was a country founded on strong Christian values, and last I checked, "Freedom of Religion" is still in our bill of rights. There should be no reason whatsoever for businesses to remove traditional holiday observations from their marketing. Any lawsuits to that end should be deemed frivilous and thrown out of the courts, because they certainly don't represent the majority opinion from the citizens of this country.

    Furthermore, I strongly disagree with companies that excersize such underhanded business practices as mentioned above. Any business that feels the need to misuse our justice system for stupid little reasons like this will get little to no support from me. Companies like this need to be taught lessons, and if we actively boycott companies like this, they will eventually get the message, because their sales will be hurting bigtime.

     

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  14.  
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    Stephen, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:29am

    I believe in Karma. If BB wants to knowingly mis-apply a law great. When it's stuck down the consequences they wanted for someone else can apply to themselves.

     

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  15.  
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    erinol0, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:32am

    Re: Maybe we're wrong...

    Streisand Effect????

    It could be, but I don't think their lawyers think like that--After all, they're lawyers.

     

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  16.  
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    erinol0, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:32am

    Re: Maybe we're wrong...

    Streisand Effect????

    It could be, but I don't think their lawyers think like that--After all, they're lawyers.

     

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  17.  
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    brad, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:40am

    Re: Already In Trouble

    Resistance is futile? To your christian-taliban evangelism? Screw you.

    The stores say "Happy Holidays" because despite what you christian-taliban think, the christian holiday isn't the only religious holiday being observed near the winter solstice.

    Christians seem to need / thrive on a persecution complex. I've never seen a group of people who so tightly hold on to the notion that they're being persecuted -- even when they're in the majority.

    You act insulted when store personnel don't assume you're a christian. My faith isn't yours -- and I'm glad I live in country where separation of church and state is guaranteed. Freedom from religion is the necessary foundation of freedom of religion.

    I'll pray that you become more enlightened (just not to your god.)

     

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  18.  
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    Unknowledgeable Geek, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:43am

    Re:

    I grew up in the US, I went to US schools my whole life. I never new that America was founded by a strong Christian belief. I thought it was Europeans that were escaping religious prosecution or all different religious origins. Let me add to the fact that I am Jewish, but I honestly don't care if people say "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Christmas", it really makes no difference to me. But, don't spout out saying America was founded under strong Christian beliefs, because that just makes all of us Americans look like ignorant idiots, and I don't want to be associated with that.

    Now, on to BB. It is there company than can handle their ad campaign anyway they want. I don't think it is going to hurt them, I live right outside Washington DC, and if I want to buy an electronic device I don't have many options beside BB. I couldn't imagine living further from a city, because you have no choice besides BB.

    Regarding the cease and desist order, I agree completely with whoever said "any publicity is good publicity", that is all the lawsuit was meant for. The lawyers just found a way to talk about there "holiday" sales. Is it right, no. But to the same extent, who is the lawyer for this website, that so easily gave in to stupid demands? That is the real question.

    WalMart, I hate Walmart go to Target instead. Enough said.

     

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  19.  
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    brad, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:45am

    Re: Founded on Strong Christian Values

    I call bullshit. The Pilgrims risked their lives to come here in pursuit of religious freedom -- but they were running from people like you. They weren't running from a secular government that stayed out of their religious lives, they were running from an officially christian government.

    In 1796, the US Senate voted on, and unanimously approved the Treaty of Tripoli which specifically stated the country was in NO WAY founded on the christian faith.

    You're free to exercise your religion in any way you wish -- you're just not free to force it on me.

     

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  20.  
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    Bob, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:45am

    BestBuy

    BestBuy Sucks, IMO

    They cater to the unknowing electronic consumer with their inflated prices/services, long lines, atrocious return policy, and their obnoxious snot nose uneducated staff. again, just my opinion.

    I would take the time to research the technology you wish to purchase then find a good online company to purchase it at, at a much lower cost without our corrupt government sales tax and have it shipped to your door.

    Merry Christmas

     

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  21.  
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    Playa Hata, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 6:54am

    #13 - You are one stupid fuck.

     

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  22.  
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    TheVoiceOfReason, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 7:14am

    >The gays are destroying the traditional family, which is the backbone of our society for over 200 years (if it ain't broke, don't fix it)

    Half of all legally sanctioned, heterosexual marriages in the United States have ended in divorce. A fifty percent failure rate says to me, its broken. And it has nothing to do with gays. If two gay men get married, how do3es that in any way weaken my marriage to my wife, and in what way is it their problem?

     

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  23.  
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    Country going down!, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 7:31am

    America was infact founded on Christianity, evry President of the USA was and still is a Christian. It will be a very long time before we see different. Also the seperation of Church and State, the worst idea ever! Take a look at the people prior to the 1960's maybe even 70's for that matter. Kids, teens, whatever were just better quality people than today. Like #21 "playa hata" WTF is that? speak english you retard! Although the USA is a melting pot of religions and races, English is the language not Spanish, not Indian and definatley not Ebonics.

     

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  24.  
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    Sick of Sick of all the crap, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 7:35am

    Sick of all the crap

    Gays are destroying family values? what about the republicans who claim to be morally superior, yet are in affairs, and file for devorce? isn't the conservative christian right opposed to divore. I seem to recal some passage from some book, i think it was, yes one called "the bible" and if i'm not mistaken, it's a book most ccr's find to be the basis of truth/understanding/morallity.

    so, if that's the case, why is the right wing saying one thing and doing another? plus it's been shown that gay families have a stronger household (filled with love and caring) than most hetero homes. and divorce rates for gays are less than hetero couples. spousal abuse is lover, right? if the gays are destroying the family, then what the hell are the heteros doing to it?

    now, i don't claim that the liberal democrats are perfect angels. we have our fair share of sex scandals and divorce. but we don't pride ourselves on being the christian moral voice.

    Oh, and one more thing. For a party that is very anti-day, you sure do have quite a few gay members.

    response anyone?

     

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  25.  
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    playa hataz, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 7:40am

    why don't youz show mez wherez in the consti theres no mention of offical languagez.

    oh, youz izn't able to.

    next, showz me the law that mizakes english the offical language.

    bitch can't. dumb fool

     

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  26.  
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    Wyndle, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 8:08am

    Re: Country going down!

    The only non-Christian President of the United States of America. Go read a book or something.

    Oh, and do not criticize people for using slang when you can not even use proper sentance structure, grammar, or capitalization. And the abreviation "WTF" is a form of internet slang. Despite what some people in California think, Ebonics is not a language and should not be accepted as such.

    As someone who as studied several religions, I can say without a doubt that religious bias and stereotypes have ruined the vast majority of those religions. To say that seperation of church and state is bad just proves your ignorance. I do not want my government to tell me how to worship a higher power that I may or may not believe in, and I certanly don't want Fallwell or Swaggert running this country.

    I agree that speaking English should be required of citizens, but it is not currently the law. You have the right to complain about it (First Amendment). It's how you complain that makes the difference between being a biggot and being someone who cares about the welfare of the country.

     

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  27.  
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    Wyndle, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 8:19am

    More on topic now...

    ... that my rant is over.

    Best Buy wants the ads stopped to reduce the number of people who are coming in to buy only the sale items. The markdown on those items is a sales concept called "Loss-Leader" and it is very common. For example, your local grocer sends out a weekly sales ad showing what is on sale. Those sale items are typically closer to the back of the store and near complimentary items that are not on sale. A specific example would be a sale on BrandX Tortila Chips and those chips would be located next to a big display of BrandZ Salsa and BrandB Cheese Sauce that are not on sale.

    If the ads stayed online it would increase the number of people who are only interested in the marked down prices which results in a net loss instead of a net profit. The only thing keeping these stores from stopping the net ads is that the sales prices are fact.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 8:34am

    Wyndle---- Catholicism IS a Christian religion.

     

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  29.  
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    sick of your crap, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 8:40am

    Re:

    I know that this is not the place for this debate but...

    Give me a break! Stop trying to blame the gays for the degradation of the traditional family...straight people are at fault as they are the ones actually in the family. You should know should know by now that the strength of a family comes from within. Weak families fall apart due to exterior influence. Are your convictions so fragile that the mere thought of some local man-on-man action is actually destroying your family?

    I, a straight American man, raised Christian btw, find it ridiculous that "Christian" America has such a problem with gay marriage/civil union when marriage straight marriages have a ~50% divorce rate. I find that to be a far worse mockery of the concept of marriage that a homosexual partnership.

    I do agree with you that "Happy Holidays" is pretty lame. But if you want to hear "Merry Christmas", you have to be ready to hear "Happy Everything else" (Sorry all other religions :) )

    Freedom of religion is in our bill of rights, along with a lot of other freedoms. You need to learn that ..."this land is your land, this land is my land"... share friend, that's all I'm saying.

    This is America so either get accustomed to the idea of tolerating people with different values and beliefs, or get yourself a crucifix and some holy water and lock yourself in your basement until the rapture. :)

    ...cue the fire and brimstone...

     

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  30.  
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    Wyndle, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 8:40am

    Re:

    Just goes to show how replying in the heat of the moment can blur the facts, even when you try to sound smart.

    The important thing is that I got my other points across.

    Let this be a lesson to everyone: Always double and triple check the reported facts of anyone with a sleep disorder! LOL

     

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  31.  
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    cb, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 8:52am

    to bad

    To bad for Best Buy. We were looking at purchasing 2 LCD for Christmas. I dont like Bully's. I'm looking else where, regardless of price.

     

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  32.  
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    Walt, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:12am

    Re: More on topic now... and the right site this t

    I think you have a valid theory here, but what I think the real strategy here is to keep other retailers from undercutting them. Wal-mart has a 32" lcd hdtv as an early-bird special for $600, now they see that BB is going to have a comparable product for $479 at the same time. So then Wal-mart counters with a better deal and now BB lost their market edge. Don't think so? http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/15/news/companies/walmart_onlinesales/index.htm?postversion=2006111515

    Some of you may bring up that BB and Wal-mart aren't competitors, but in many areas they are. In my hometown, they practically share a parking lot. To the wife who is buying a tv for dad, 1080p versus 1080i means nothing. The logic is "Who cares if it's a Sylvania (or Westinghouse) instead of a Samsung (or Phillips) when I can get one that is 3" bigger for $300 less?" These circulars all go out in the same papers, and bargain hunters don't care what the store name is.

    I'm sure many of you are thinking, why would I buy at WM or BB when I could buy it online cheaper? Well that's you, a techdirt reader, not the millions of soccer moms out there that beat down doors every year.

    It's happening. I see a push towards Apple type secrecy with Black Friday sales starting next year. I love to see pesky consumers get in the way of companies sticking it to us. Everyone is going to try their best to undercut their competitors. I think a movement should be started to make Black Friday be the national holiday in honor of capitalism. I think Adam Smith Day should work just fine. Everyone outside of retail has the day off already anyways right?

     

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  33.  
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    AJ, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:29am

    same ole...

    Everyone knows that Best Buy is run by gay-christian-republicans-ex presidents... jez...

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:31am

    see, thing is.. with best buy.. it is not-so-much like a grocery store...
    if you are putting an item on sale, it is probably because you either:
    have a surplus of the item because they werent selling, and you kept having more shipped to you... or maybe you got a boatload at a great price.., that or you just need to get rid of the slightly old/becoming outdated item... and putting it on sale, will help you do so.. giving you space for newer, more in-demand brand/items, etc etc.......
    not so that when you come in, and SEE monitor xyz on sale, you MIGHT want to buy highly overpriced usb hard drive, and highly overpriced other misc item..

    so.. if someone were to extend your advertising for you..
    in turn, helping you sell your surplus/less desired stock, you should be praising them, not trying to f*ck them in the @ss (gay pun not intended, but its there anyways, just the way I talk/write)

    my $0.02

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:35am

    "Catholicism IS a Christian religion"

    No it's not. It's a cult.

    Me - "why are you catholic"
    Catholic - "well, duh, cause my mom and dad are"
    Me - "so you never really studied any other religions or
    had deep thought about what you believe to be the truth?"
    Catholic - "Uh, no. I just believe what all these other catholics tell me to believe"

    Same can be said about most religions but Catholics are by far the worst.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:41am

    mormon religion is very pushy too, if you are questioning things.. then you are "losing faith" and to "pray harder, and you'll find the way again" if arent finding your way, it is YOUR FAULT, and if you ever decide that it isnt "the way" then you are surely damned to hell since you had "found the true church, then left it"

     

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  37.  
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    wfi guy, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:51am

    Re: Re: Country going down!

    Ummm... John F. Kennedy was Catholic. Unless they have changed, that's a Christian faith.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:54am

    Re: Re: Re: Country going down!

    so the assumption everyone is using, that if your religion includes god, and christ, it makes the religion fit under the christian category, even if it isnt? similar maybe.. but not the same thing.. or they would just call themselves christians, not catholics/whatever other religion.

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:55am

    um, i just looked and FatWallet did in fact remove Best Buy from their site.

     

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  40.  
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    Yakov, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 10:32am

    Live and let live (you lost by the way)

    13: Honestly if you are under the opinion that gays are ruining the country, you must have just gotten out of prison and are sore as hell about it, or are you pissed that your job doesn't provide you with pages? To be so anti-gay, and to spout off your bigotry on a tech forum, and an article about a completely unrelated topic, you must have some repressed feelings. Did your daddy not love you enough? In fact your religious fanaticism shows more commonality with a faith inspired bunch who flew some large planes into NY 5 years ago. They don't like gays either. FYI, the country clearly doesn't agree with you, and believing that a God, any God would hate any group of people based on anything -- race, weight, sexual orientation, IQ number, is well not very Christian. Isn't love thy neighbor written in the Bible? I don't recall it saying Love Thy neighbor unless he is fag.
    I'm not a fan of political correctness myself either, so Marry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Quanza, and my the good Lord bless you with some tolerance on this holiday season.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 11:03am

    As much as I love this is a great country, I think the other people ruin it. Come on, remove GOD off our Money, remove GOD from the Pledge. What next? it's just going too far. Frivilous law suits like this are a waste of time and money

     

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  42.  
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    Anthony P, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 11:05am

    Feeling the pinch

    Retailers all over are feeling the pinch from slowed sales and lackluster customer involvement. The best way to send a message to Best Buy - or any retailer for that matter - is to vote with your dollars AND let them know that you're doing so and why.

    Don't just stop shopping at Best Buy. Call their corporate office and tell them that you're not going to shop there and exactly why. It might also be a good idea to let your local store manager know too. They always funnel that sort of stuff back to corporate.

    Companies don't listen to people peeing in store corners or drunken, raging customers. The do listen to rational, normal people telling them "I'm going somewhere else".

     

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  43.  
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    mike, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 11:06am

    it is the way of all bully's,but then they are only bully's if you give in to the idea that they have any power over you in the first place.Those that stand up for themselves don't get pushed around right?

     

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  44.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 11:15am

    it's funny, we say there is no establishment of religion, yet we say that athiests must live with the "god" thing.

    they don't believe in a god. why should their nation say it is founded under god? why should the only money be in the trust of god?

    but smarter men then us have argued.

    but we are right, right?

     

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  45.  
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    Wyndle, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 11:29am

    You have to love it...

    A certain tech blog has this article on black friday websites not being allowed to disclose the coming sales, but the majority of the replies are about tolerance, religion, and rights or lack thereof for all of the above. Oh, and many of the replies are passionately heated (or cleverly trolled). In other words, try to stick to the topic. If you want to discuss something else find a board that will tolerate or invite those subjects.

    Taking some time to think about it, my "Loss-Leader" theory combined with some of the other theories sounds more accurate than any single one of those theories.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 12:40pm

    If you hate gay people, you should love gay marriage!

    If people are free to be gay, they won't try to force themselves to act heterosexual. There's a lot of marriages ended in divorce when one member simply can't fake straight any longer.

    Married gay people do not have biological children (or at least half as many as the couple would in 2 straight relationships)

    If "gay" is genetic, then you have just applied a selective pressure against gay. Gay genes get passed on half as often. That = fewer gays, so homophobic people should like that idea.

    The thing is if the gay community would just settle on letting people be "unioned" instead of "married" then they would be that much ahead and anger a lot fewer people. Unioned sounds weird and is different from unionized so most people will just call it "married" in the vernacular. So now you've got the difference down to what was on the official paper that you never look at. After gay "union" is common and people have stopped freaking out over it you could then push to get the name changed officially to "marriage" and there'd be a lot less hubub.

    Black people didn't go straight from slave to equal rights- they first got freedom, then worked on segregation, then equal opportunity etc. Baby steps work in changing society- big ones just create backlash and anger.


    Calm down everyone, BB can whine all they want. I'll still get my paper on Thursday and plan out my friday from there.

     

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  47.  
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    Foo Yuck, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 1:17pm

    Me and my gay friends

    all of my gay friends are for the unions part, as long as being in unions has the same legal benifits as married couples. however that's not the case.

    we could care less about the "religious" portion. and before you can get married in a church, you have to go before the judge or whomever to get a marriage license.

     

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  48.  
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    Brads, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 1:25pm

    Re: Country Going Down #23

    You're wrong. Thomas Jefferson, the 3rd president of the USA was NOT a christian. Most of the founding fathers were diests -- believed in god, but also knew that organized religion had been corrupted by man.

    The constitution and history is clear that we were not founded on christianity. You mistake the Pilgrims with the Founders.

    You don't like separation of church and state? Move to Iran, Somolia or any of the other countries where fundamentalists of some faith or another are killing folks over which version of god they worship.

    Prior to the 60's? You mean before the voting rights acts when blacks "knew their place"? The years have clouded your judgement. The 50's were a great time -- if you were WHITE, PROTESTANT and MALE. For all others, it sucked.

     

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  49.  
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    Brad, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 1:32pm

    Re: God on Money and in Pledge

    Hey Dufus,

    The "god clauses" were added to money in the 50's in our zeal to differentiate ourselves from those "godless commies" i the soviet union.

    God was added to our Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 in the same manner.

    Geez, a little history would go a long way to curing you FOX-news-believing idiots...

     

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  50.  
    identicon
    Harry, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 2:09pm

    "Some of you may bring up that BB and Wal-mart aren't competitors, but in many areas they are. In my hometown, they practically share a parking lot. To the wife who is buying a tv for dad, 1080p versus 1080i means nothing. The logic is "Who cares if it's a Sylvania (or Westinghouse) instead of a Samsung (or Phillips) when I can get one that is 3" bigger for $300 less?" These circulars all go out in the same papers, and bargain hunters don't care what the store name is. "

    Quite frankly people who shop like that are idiots. They buy inferior equipment to save some money and are the first ones to come back to the sotre and bitch and moan that the thing broke in 3 months and the store doesnt take returns more than 30 days after they bought it. They dont want to deal with the manufacturer and expect the store to eat the 400.00 they sent on the item because they were cheap. If you go buy Chinese garbage at WalMart, thats what you should expect to get.

     

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  51.  
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    Joe, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 2:22pm

    To number 46 you said Black people didn't go straight from slave to equal rights- they first got freedom, then worked on segregation, then equal opportunity etc. Baby steps work in changing society- big ones just create backlash and anger.

    BIG DIFFERENCE HERE!!! Black people didnt decide yo be black. If you choose to live a gay lifestyle then you can live with the consequences!!!!! There is no such thing as discriminating because of ones choice. You made your bed now lie in it with all your gay friends!!!!!

     

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  52.  
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    Walt, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 3:21pm

    Re:

    "Quite frankly people who shop like that are idiots. They buy inferior equipment to save some money and are the first ones to come back to the sotre and bitch and moan that the thing broke in 3 months and the store doesnt take returns more than 30 days after they bought it. They dont want to deal with the manufacturer and expect the store to eat the 400.00 they sent on the item because they were cheap. If you go buy Chinese garbage at WalMart, thats what you should expect to get."

    In no way am I saying you are wrong in your statement, but I fail to see the point. If you cut out all the gay/religion banter the discussion is on strategy, not how everyone that isn't a technophile is an idiot for trying to get the most bang for their buck (whatever that may be in their mind).

    If we were having a discussion on why countries choose to drive on a given side of the road and you answered with Americans are idiots for driving on the right side of the road, would it be an appropriate statement?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    Walt, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 3:22pm

    Re:

    "Quite frankly people who shop like that are idiots. They buy inferior equipment to save some money and are the first ones to come back to the sotre and bitch and moan that the thing broke in 3 months and the store doesnt take returns more than 30 days after they bought it. They dont want to deal with the manufacturer and expect the store to eat the 400.00 they sent on the item because they were cheap. If you go buy Chinese garbage at WalMart, thats what you should expect to get."

    In no way am I saying you are wrong in your statement, but I fail to see the point. If you cut out all the gay/religion banter the discussion is on strategy, not how everyone that isn't a technophile is an idiot for trying to get the most bang for their buck (whatever that may be in their mind).

    If we were having a discussion on why countries choose to drive on a given side of the road and you answered with Americans are idiots for driving on the right side of the road, would it be an appropriate statement?

     

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  54.  
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    pudro, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:12pm

    America != Christian

    Thomas Jefferson is widely accepted to not have been Christian. He was a deist.

    To those who think our country was founded on Christianity, the Father of the Constitution would like a word with you.

     

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  55.  
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    Brad, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:20pm

    Re: #51 Joe

    Joe,

    There is plenty of evidence that your sexuality is determined by a combination of genetics, hormones and birth order. There is zero evidence that it's a choice. Did you "choose" to be hetero? Could you choose to be otherwise?

    The facts conflict with you here -- the real question is will you change your mind when confronted with facts that prove you wrong?

     

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  56.  
    identicon
    Steve Savage, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 9:10pm

    America is a Christian Nation?

    Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

    -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

    History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

    -Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

    Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than thsoe which spring from any other cause. [George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792]

     

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  57.  
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    TZoe, Nov 17th, 2006 @ 12:43am

    Re: protest stylings

    Are you kidding? Protest peacefully - the "stigma of protesting" is the exact effect that is wanted. Who the hell is going to know of your protest other than middle management? We want to educate others we do it with signs in a peaceful manner - not by going in dressed up for a session of smoke-blowing.

    Really - which kid is going to get the toy? The one quietly asking Mommy please or the one sitting on the floor kicking and screaming.

     

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  58.  
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    Aytherix, Nov 17th, 2006 @ 1:24am

    thats pretty much what happens when people stop caring for their country's politics. broken laws don't matter when people to uphold the laws don't even act, which could also be applied to the american dictator.

     

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  59.  
    identicon
    Aytherix, Nov 17th, 2006 @ 1:34am

    Re: Re: protest stylings

    people aren't in the same relationship to their gov't as a mother and child. its the gov't that gets it's power from the people, and the people are meant to keep the gov't in line... but of course... people instead rely on their gov't like a mother and child, lol and no over-grown gov't has treated its people like a caring mother.

    vote with your $$$, stop supporting businesses that operate like this. money is the only vote that still works.

     

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  60.  
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    Bestus Protestus, Nov 17th, 2006 @ 5:21am

    How to protest corporate America and not be arrest

    You people are all missing the simplest solution. If you want to punish a company that relies on your hard-earned dollars to stay afloat in these hard times, let them die!

    You do not need to invest any of your time in this method. You don't need to make signs or go visiting some overpaid jerk's office. You can't be arrested. It is perfectly legal.

    Shop elsewhere. Tell your friends and family to do likewise. Organize a massive protest and get everyone to shop elsewhere this Christmas season.

    You might think that you lose because now you have to pay more elsewhere. Well, what does it cost you to protest and then have yourself bailed out of jail - branded a criminal?

    What you save is more than a few extra bucks. And aren't those few extra bucks worth telling Best Buy where to go?

    For the big corporations like Best Buy, a 10% drop in sales is more than huge at this time of year.

     

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  61.  
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    lipstickhottie, Nov 17th, 2006 @ 8:22am

    Re:

    Your comment of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is uninformed and misguided. over 50% of hetersexual marriages end in divorce, with over 40% of second marriages ending the same way......sounds pretty broken to me

     

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  62.  
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    TC, Nov 23rd, 2006 @ 11:45am

    A bit off topic, are we?

    Way to go, clowns.

    Last I checked, this site is called "techdirt" and the article is about Best Buy using empty threats to have their ad taken down from another site.

    There's no reason to be discussing religion, marriage, gay vs. straight, or dirty politicians and their shady politics in this thread.

    If I were a moderator, any and all of that crap would be immediately removed--write on your feelings of the article on hand, not on this "my opinion on gays/marriage/religions/politics is right and your opinion on the same is wrong" nonsense.

     

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  63.  
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    The Atheist, Nov 26th, 2006 @ 12:29am

    Re:

    Well luckily for them I will now take your place in line. One Less Christian sounds good to me.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 26th, 2006 @ 6:51pm

    Re: Re: Already In Trouble

    too bad you feel this way about God. Cant say anything when I die but "wish you were here" instead of burning in .... I think you get the point. Wake up before its too late. I pray that GOD would enlighten you, let you see that there is really a spirtiual battle going on right now for your soul. Good Luck

     

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  65.  
    identicon
    Patrick, Dec 2nd, 2006 @ 2:38pm

    Re: Re: God on Money and in Pledge

    If the courts force the federal government to take In God We Trust off of the money, I will simply do what the atheists are doing now and alter every single bill I come into contact with.

    Every single bill, before it leaves my hands, will be stamped with In God We Trust in big, BOLD red letters.

     

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  66.  
    identicon
    Patrick, Dec 2nd, 2006 @ 2:41pm

    Re: Re:

    Liberals are to blame for the problems with marriage. Let's look at all of the liberal inventions which have taken away from the commitment once only found in marriage.

    Shacking up, single parenthood, quickie (no fault) divorce...need I go on? Its no wonder that so many marriages end in divorce.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    Lizl, Nov 19th, 2007 @ 7:18pm

    Re: Where's Fritz Hollings when you need him?

    Idiot.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    your a part of marx, Nov 30th, 2007 @ 5:48pm

    Re: Re: #51 Joe

    It is a choice
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/325979.stm

    this is from the BBC you should trust it for it also hates America, your brainwashed from the left, your aiding the communist and you don't know it

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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