"U.S. members of Congress can request access to the draft documents, but are required to keep secret about what they see. All the same, a few have hinted at what they?ve seen.
Rep. Alan Grayson, a Florida Democrat, said he had seen the text and said the agreement, as it stands, ?hands the sovereignty of our country over to corporate interests.?
1st there is something called "incompetence" which happens every minute of ever day, - around the globe. Errors and oversight will occur.
2nd is hubris, a byproduct of " Emperialistic" thinking. This hubris can lead to the underestimation of a threat or overconfidence in a mission achievement.
3rd there are some incredibly bright people who choose not to work for the spooks. And lets not underestimate the hacker mentality.
4th, there is a little something called morality. There do exist people who can't be bought and who will not compromise their principles.
This is where we get to Snowden. Listen to his interviews. "The truth is coming and it can't be stopped." There was no deal possible. Remember, he believed like many others, that Obama would bring change. He sat on all this knowledge waiting for those changes to happen.
There will be more I'm sure (whistleblowers) . I'm guessing that it's already too late for the government and the spooks to find them and shut them up.
Snowden's intentions were in the interest of the American people. When the interests of the people and their governments are no longer the same, I don't think it's an act of disloyalty to expose them.
No, it's not about content but rather the recipient of that content.
If information is stolen from a company and given to a competitor(s) that is industrial espionage. Whereas if information is stolen and passed to a journalist demonstrating illegality, that is whistleblowing.
The definition of spy and whistleblower are are not blurred in my mind. Nor were they blurred (in the public's mind) during Daniel Elsberg's time.
The blurring and confusion we see today have been purposely created.
Exactly. They are the ones that are inept. And now they are scurrying around making threats, taking down diplomatic planes and totally ignoring international law. The empire is not looking too good.
Not only will nothing significant get done but we're probably looking at more restrictive legislation being passed. Corporate control of governments has to be broken - but it won't come from the ballet box.
" no one is really interested in Snoden's leaks, hell if it was not for Masnick and a few (very few) others, trying day and night to keep that story alive, NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED !!!.. "
Let's wait and see what else he has.
What Snowden didn't count on was the abject subservience of the press
Hacker spaces (Fab Labs) are sprouting up around the globe that not only have 3D printers and laster cutters etc., but which also teach people how to build their own. Who knows what innovations will sprout from this.
It offers the possibility of citizen manufacturing and a start to moving away from corporate dependency.
From the Huffington Post Business
"U.S. members of Congress can request access to the draft documents, but are required to keep secret about what they see. All the same, a few have hinted at what they?ve seen.
Rep. Alan Grayson, a Florida Democrat, said he had seen the text and said the agreement, as it stands, ?hands the sovereignty of our country over to corporate interests.?
Re: Had to tweet this at her...
And the Senator's honest response should be:
I'm laughing all the way to the bank.
http://www.indypendent.org/2013/07/16/nsa-follows-you-we-follow-money
Re: Doing the job
"start doing their job when it comes to elections"
Impossible to do when the system has been corrupted.
Money is what counts, and the average voter doesn't have the financial means to influence government or policy. That's where A.L.E.C. comes into play.
Re: Ah, but that little fly in the ointment...
Ah, but a lot of things could change within those 35 years.
Re: Faulty premise
I agree, in part with Atkray
"Spooks Are dumb"
1st there is something called "incompetence" which happens every minute of ever day, - around the globe. Errors and oversight will occur.
2nd is hubris, a byproduct of " Emperialistic" thinking. This hubris can lead to the underestimation of a threat or overconfidence in a mission achievement.
3rd there are some incredibly bright people who choose not to work for the spooks. And lets not underestimate the hacker mentality.
4th, there is a little something called morality. There do exist people who can't be bought and who will not compromise their principles.
This is where we get to Snowden. Listen to his interviews. "The truth is coming and it can't be stopped." There was no deal possible. Remember, he believed like many others, that Obama would bring change. He sat on all this knowledge waiting for those changes to happen.
There will be more I'm sure (whistleblowers) . I'm guessing that it's already too late for the government and the spooks to find them and shut them up.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The question that should be asked is if democracy and empire can co-exist. The histories of previous empires have demonstrated that they cannot.
Re: It make's perfect sense
Yes I agree. Especially with the last 2 paragraphs. But let's not stop at the U.S., this is occurring around the globe.
And let's not stop at politicians. What if companies around the globe are sold access to all our information? Consider the implications.
Re: Re: Just a definition
"what he should be tried for is disloyalty"
Snowden's intentions were in the interest of the American people. When the interests of the people and their governments are no longer the same, I don't think it's an act of disloyalty to expose them.
Re: Just a definition
No, it's not about content but rather the recipient of that content.
If information is stolen from a company and given to a competitor(s) that is industrial espionage. Whereas if information is stolen and passed to a journalist demonstrating illegality, that is whistleblowing.
The definition of spy and whistleblower are are not blurred in my mind. Nor were they blurred (in the public's mind) during Daniel Elsberg's time.
The blurring and confusion we see today have been purposely created.
Re: "He implies Snoweden is inept"
Exactly. They are the ones that are inept. And now they are scurrying around making threats, taking down diplomatic planes and totally ignoring international law. The empire is not looking too good.
Re:
I agree.
Not only will nothing significant get done but we're probably looking at more restrictive legislation being passed. Corporate control of governments has to be broken - but it won't come from the ballet box.
Re: Re:
A possibility, yes. But there is also the probability that the ship will sink. All empires fall and we may be witnessing the denouement of this one.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
" no one is really interested in Snoden's leaks, hell if it was not for Masnick and a few (very few) others, trying day and night to keep that story alive, NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED !!!.. "
Let's wait and see what else he has.
What Snowden didn't count on was the abject subservience of the press
Re: Re:
Hacker spaces (Fab Labs) are sprouting up around the globe that not only have 3D printers and laster cutters etc., but which also teach people how to build their own. Who knows what innovations will sprout from this.
It offers the possibility of citizen manufacturing and a start to moving away from corporate dependency.
Re:
Maybe because in truth, it's no longer a democracy? Those in control care little for human life, only the bottom line.
Yes, we ARE now living in that future. A change in government makes no difference, I fear, not even a left-leaning socialist one.
Are people aware. Or more importantly, will they be made aware? Who controls the media?
Sadly, those who do become aware and understand the game are labelled "Conspiracists". Fear pushers like Alex Jones don't help.