Math Is Not A Crime

from the 2+2 dept

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Our latest Techdirt t-shirt is the Math Is Not A Crime shirt (also available as women's tees, hoodies, v-necks, mugs and stickers), which was initially inspired by some of the debates around outlawing strong encryption -- but also refers to much, much more. One of the key points that defenders of strong encryption have been making in response to attempts to outlaw strong encryption or to demand backdoors is that encryption is just math, and it should never be a crime to do math. But the message actually goes beyond that. It's pointing out that since it is just math, someone else can do the math too and create their own encryption. One of the key legal fights around encryption, Bernstein v. United States, basically centered around the question of whether or not the government could declare a mathematical encryption algorithm a "munition" in order to block its export. Eventually it was determined that source code (and with it, math) are protected by the First Amendment.

But it's not just about encryption. The issue of outlawing math has come up in other contexts that we talk about as well. For example, the patenting of software is one example that has raised concerns about outlawing math. Algorithms are basically just mathematical formulas and not being able to write an algorithm because someone has patented some of it seems particularly stupid. Over a decade ago, Ben Klemens wrote a great book called Math You Can't Use.

And, of course, this enters the copyright realm as well. We're constantly talking about DRM, and a key bit of law that props up bogus DRM systems is Section 1201 of the DMCA, which outlaws any circumvention of DRM. But, many of those circumventions are little more than math as well.

This should be concerning to all of us. Attempting to hold back innovation, privacy and progress by outlawing math is a problem, and that's the reason behind our shirt. Oh, and it's also cool for math teachers and students too. Get yours today, and don't forget to check out the other gear in our super-early holiday sale.


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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 11:50am

    Isn't there some irony in suggesting buying a DRM-encrusted copy of Math You Can't Use?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 12:14pm

    Since an image is stored as a string of bits that can be interpreted as a string of digits, does this mean Mike and the gang would like to see laws around the possession of digital child porn lifted? It's all just numbers, right?

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    • identicon
      I.T. Guy, 21 Sep 2016 @ 12:39pm

      Re:

      Idiot.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        OldMugwump (profile), 21 Sep 2016 @ 3:33pm

        Re: Re: Idiot

        No, the AC has a point.

        A digital file is just a string of bits.

        If we're serious that "math is not a crime", there should be no forbidden bit strings.

        I'm OK with that. Creating child porn should be illegal. Exploiting children should be illegal. Bit strings - in and of themselves - should not.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 6:06pm

          Re: Re: Re: Idiot

          "A digital file is just a string of bits."

          And - a string of bits is not math.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 7:38am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Idiot

            A string of bits is a number. I don't know anything that is mathier than a number.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              CK20XX (profile), 22 Sep 2016 @ 7:50am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Idiot

              How about an equation? Or a formula? A number is more something that just sits there on an inventory list.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 11:24am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Idiot

              A number is a number, but it is not math.
              Its value may have been determined via math, but that does not make it anything other than a number.

              Math -
              noun
              1.
              (used with a singular verb) the systematic treatment of magnitude, relationships between figures and forms, and relations between quantities expressed symbolically.
              2.
              (used with a singular or plural verb) mathematical procedures, operations, or properties.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              The Wanderer (profile), 23 Sep 2016 @ 9:11am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Idiot

              Math is not numbers.

              Math is the manipulation of numbers.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 12:15pm

    Placed my order! BTW, I actually work on encryption products. I sent a link to this article to all of my co-workers.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    JustShutUpAndObey, 21 Sep 2016 @ 12:27pm

    Pretty sure it IS a crime...

    The courts have been inconsistent, but pretty sure that like it or not, and irrelevant of how much sense it makes, math sometimes IS a crime.
    Rather than denying that reality, shouldn't we be highlighting it so we can change it?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Leigh Beadon (profile), 21 Sep 2016 @ 12:34pm

      Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

      You may have missed the point. This is like if someone at an oil protest had a "No Pipelines!" sign, and you said "well actually, there *are* pipelines. Instead of denying that, shouldn't we be protesting it?"

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 8:57am

        Re: Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

        The use of encryption can indeed be a crime.

        For example, in California it is illegal to conceal evidence of a crime.

        A physical analogy would be lock picks. In most places in the US it's perfectly legal to own lock picks unless you intend to commit a crime with them. Then they are illegal.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 11:29am

          Re: Re: Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

          "The use of encryption can indeed be a crime."

          And I think that is the debate - right? Many disagree with you.

          Also, bad analogy, lock picks are not math.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 1:03pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

            If lock pics were math, it wouldn't be an analogy.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 23 Sep 2016 @ 6:43am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

              Most all analogies are bad, not sure why some folk continue with the silliness. I suppose some do it for the lolz.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 2:25pm

      Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

      I was about to come in here and joke about how people are now going to say "Well actually math IS a crime" just like the "Well actually copying IS theft" boneheads the other week.

      At least, I *thought* I was joking.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 5:50pm

        Re: Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

        What do you expect when you take an important issue and try to dumb it down to fit on a bumper sticker... or a t-shirt.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 6:05pm

      Re: Pretty sure it IS a crime...

      "math sometimes IS a crime"

      Very much like gravity is sometimes a crime,
      or maybe it's solar radiation that is a crime.

      How about - cell division is a crime? Damn pirates!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    bob, 21 Sep 2016 @ 1:48pm

    M.A.T.H.

    Mental
    Abuse
    To
    Humans

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 6:07pm

      Re: M.A.T.H.

      Math is not hard, for some - learning is hard.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 9:11pm

        Re: Re: M.A.T.H.

        Math is not hard for some, because learning math is not hard for some! The issues, though, are:... How are some students more able to learn math more efficiently and effectively than others?... and!... How are some teachers more able to teach math more efficiently and effectively than other teachers? And!... beyond the mere ability to learn and/ or to teach mathematics, ARE OUR PEDAGOGIES ABLE TO PEG MATHEMATICS TO AN "E-S-S-E-N-T-I-A-L E-T-H-O-S"?
        .
        It amazes me why teachers in North America (but yea, beyond NA!) aren't CERTIFIED in Applied and Theoretical Teaching (what the Teacher should be about!... and regardless of the subjects being taught!), and CERTIFIED in Applied and Theoretical Learning (what the Student is about!... and regardless of the subjects being taught!)!
        .
        In other words... WHY ARE THESE FOUR B-A-S-I-C P-I-L-L-A-R-S ABSENT FROM THE QUIVERS OF OUR FACULTIES OF EDUCATION?... AND THUS, FROM THE MINDSETS OF THE VICTIMS OF OUR FACULTIES OF EDUCATION (I.E., OUR PEDAGOGIES!)? But!... beyond these four basic pillars!... WHY IS INTRApersonal AND INTERpersonal INTELLIGENCE (the three "I_s"!... or, the Behavioral Sciences!) NOT DEEMED MORE ESSENTIAL IN THE CLASSROOM, THAN MATHEMATICS (INDEED!... T-H-A-N A-N-Y A-N-D A-L-L O-T-H-E-R S-U-B-J-E-C-T-S B-E-I-N-G T-A-U-G-H-T!-- P-E-R-I-O-D!)?
        .
        Our Faculties of Education are failing to properly equip our teachers!... and, which explains why many teachers are-- in turn!-- failing to properly equip our students!
        .
        Please!... no emails!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    bob, 21 Sep 2016 @ 1:52pm

    Why making crystal clear math should be illegal.

    https://youtu.be/6xi2Bl50XPc

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 9:41pm

      Re:

      I would have watched your cited Youtube video, but a member of Google has deliberately invoked an algorithm that has caused my audio to cut in and out (for all Youtube videos I watch!), because of criticisms I've made against Google, through its Feedback window! In fact!... this member, has created a special Feedback window (one I've never seen before!), wherein, afterupon placing a character, the "new window" will continuously bring me to the end of my "texting script"!... and so, I'm having to reposition my cursor for every character to be entered! And so... in order to overcome this, I must prepare my script in Windows' Notepad first, and then Paste this in their Feedback window, and Send! I have also found that my View Page and View Image captions found afterupon entering a Google Image Result image, is vertically stretched to the point, that the bottom four of eight "lesser images" found when opening a Google image, can no longer be seen! Sorry!
      .
      Please!... no emails!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 3:07pm

    1+1=3

    It's a crime.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mr Big Content, 21 Sep 2016 @ 3:15pm

    Math IS A Crime!!!

    Have your ever DONE math? Its HARD!!! Its like it was created ESPECILALLY to make us normal folks look dumb! And now it turns out that encryption is based on math! WHAT A COINCIDENCE THAT ONLY TEH SECRET CABAL OF MATH CULTISTS CAN UNDERSTAND ENCRYPTION!

    I dont know about you, but Ive had ENOUGH of these DIABOLOLICAL SADISTS!! BAN MATH NOW!!!!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 3:19pm

    THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

    2+2 may be simple enough to understand!... but, when 2+2 is said to equal 5, or when 2+2, and a long equation, sets off a nuclear device, T-H-E-N, T-H-E N-U-M-B-E-R-S "D-O-N-'-T A-D-D U-P" T-O A S-I-M-P-L-E D-E-F-E-R-E-N-C-E T-O T-H-E N-U-M-B-E-R-S!
    .
    It's about CONTEXT!
    .
    A match may be used to light gas stove!... or!... it can be used to burn down a city! The math of the mechanics of the action of the striking of the match against an "igniting surface" may be comparable!... and, that of the subsequent human actions (i.e., mechanics!) used to light a gas stove, or, to burn down a city!... but, the mathematics of the state of the cognitive psychophysiology of the mind of the person that has formed the "intention"/ "will" in the two respective linear actions, are not!
    .
    Therefore, REDUCING THE CONTEXT!... THE COMPLEXITY!... OF THE "S-U-M E-Q-U-A-T-I-O-N" OF A MECHANICAL EVENT, TO P-R-E-D-E-T-E-R-M-I-N-E-D INDIVIDUAL/ LINEAR SETS OF NUMBERS WITH WHICH IT IS COMPOSED, I-S T-O N-E-G-A-T-E T-H-E I-N-H-E-R-E-N-T D-A-N-G-E-R (O-R B-E-N-E-F-I-T-!) I-N T-H-E "L-A-R-G-E-R E-Q-U-A-T-I-O-N" T-H-A-T T-H-E I-N-D-I-V-I-D-U-A-L C-O-M-P-O-N-E-N-T-S/ N-U-M-B-E-R-S R-E-P-R-E-S-E-N-T!
    .
    Humans may be said to have a similar gene structure... and thus, similar "underlying math"!... to numerous different species (e.g., to mice!)! But!... we are not to be made synonymous with these species, by virtue of these similarities!
    .
    We!... humans!... have tagged numbers to ethos!... and meaning! And not because the numbers themselves have ethos and meaning!... but, because we/ humans desire to Q-U-A-N-T-I-F-Y "T-H-E Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y" O-F H-U-M-A-N B-E-H-A-V-I-O-R!
    .
    And why not? ALL SUBJECTS/ TOPICS ARE "UP FOR GRABS" BY HUMANITY!... AND SO, T-H-E M-E-C-H-A-N-I-C-S O-F T-H-E "Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y" O-F H-U-M-A-N B-E-H-A-V-I-O-R C-A-N-- A-N-D S-H-O-U-L-D!-- B-E S-U-B-J-E-C-T T-O T-H-E S-A-M-E R-I-G-O-U-R-S O-F M-A-T-H-E-M-A-T-I-C-S!
    .
    And!... just like a soul is more than just the sum of its mechanical parts, a soul is more than just the sum of its linear numbers! W-E... A-R-E C-O-N-T-E-X-T!
    .
    Please!... no emails!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 3:35pm

      Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

      Talk like a human.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 6:47pm

        Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

        The day I S-T-O-P t-e-x-t-i-n-g like a human, is the day YOU S-T-A-R-T m-a-k-i-n-g s-e-n-s-e!
        .
        Please!... no emails!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      CK20XX (profile), 21 Sep 2016 @ 5:02pm

      Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

      This guy is on a drug and it's called John Mayor.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 6:51pm

        Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

        NOPE!... dope!... it's simply-- AND APPARENTLY!-- beyond your reach! And so!... it's back to TSL classes for you (i.e., "Thinking as a Second Language!)!
        .
        Please!... no emails!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          CK20XX (profile), 21 Sep 2016 @ 9:53pm

          Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

          I don't know what you're thinking, but you'll never be as cool as School House Rock was.

          I mean, "Thinking as a Second Language" makes no sense, but it does sound like haphazard late 1900's rap lyrics.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            John Mayor, 25 Sep 2016 @ 2:22am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

            Makes no sense? Yeah!... said like someone-- as I've denoted!-- who's in clear need of TSL classes! And sorry!... I'm into Jailhouse Rock!... Jerry Lee!... and RHAPsody in Blue!
            .
            Please!... no emails!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 6:11pm

      Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

      Equations do not "set off" anything, people do.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 7:02pm

        Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

        Well!... there you go! You got the "people thing" in the "equation"!
        .
        And so!... to avoid the "mathematics of people (i.e., the 'mathematics of human intention'!)" who-- in turn!-- apply mathematics to their "environments", is like failing to account for the magnetic pull of the sun, in the assessment of how the magnetic interplay between planets within our solar system, actually works!
        .
        Please!... no emails!

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 5:23am

          Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

          "magnetic pull of the sun"

          ... care to explain this in more detail? Inquiring minds want to know.

          Or how about the "mathematics of human intention", this sounds like a hoot. Please provide details.

          "magnetic interplay between planets within our solar system, actually works"

          This too, could be quite educational to learn about this.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            John Mayor, 22 Sep 2016 @ 10:30pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

            FOUR POINTS are missed, when governments begin discussing "BETTER SECURITY"! And these are... Evil people want ACCESS, and Evil people want PRIVACY!... and Non-evil people want ACCESS, and Non-evil people want PRIVACY! Conclusion:... IT'S NOT SIMPLY ABOUT PRIVACY VERSUS ACCESS!
            .
            NON-EVIL PEOPLE NEED ACCESS A-N-D PRIVACY!... AND EVIL PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE ACCESS O-R PRIVACY! BUT, IF YOU DENY THE WRONG PEOPLE (I.E., NON-EVIL PEOPLE!), AND ALLOW THE WRONG PEOPLE (I.E., EVIL PEOPLE!), Y-O-U H-A-R-M S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y (AND IN THE CASE OF NON-EVIL PEOPLE, DENIALS WILL ADVERSELY IMPACT ON MANY OTHER DIGITAL... A-N-D H-U-M-A-N!... RIGHTS! AND!... IN ADDITION, TO ACCESS!)! AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH IS WHICH (I.E., WHO'S EVIL, AND WHO'S NOT!)... WELL!... ONE SHOULD D*MN WELL FIGURE IT OUT!
            .
            And so... it would appear, that many "Security Professionals"-- AND "LAY COMMENTERS"!-- are woefully stupid/ ignorant of the power that the "Uncertainty Principle" in Quantum Mechanics (AND!... OF THE "QUANTUM MECHANICS OF HUMAN INTENTION"!) has (AND CAN HAVE!)!... on ICT software and hardware! AND!... IF THIS PRINCIPLE-- AND POWER OF HUMAN INTENTION!-- WAS ADDRESSED, SUCH COULD SOLVE THE "EVIL PRIVACY VS ACCESS CONUNDRUM" OVERNIGHT!*
            .
            If you have ever tried to "reconnect" a broken bar magent, you might then appreciate the subtlety of the "Uncertainty Principle" in Quantum Mechanics! And!... and believe it, or not!... human intention (AT THE QUANTUM LEVEL!), is exactly like a broken bar magnet!... and a "reveal", AS TO HOW SECURITY AT THE QUANTUM LEVEL CAN BE ACHIEVED!
            .
            Simply put!... and again!... believe it, or not!... a soul of evil intent is like one broken piece of the bar magnet (AT THE QUANTUM LEVEL!), and a soul of sound intent is like the remaining broken piece!... AND NEITHER PIECE WILL BE COMPATIBLE!
            .
            The souls of evil intention (EVIL QUANTUM FIELD FLUX!) are desparately trying to "INFLUENCE (GAIN 'QUANTUM MAGNETIC FIELD FLUX CONTROL'!)" over "ACCESS AND PRIVACY (I.E., OVER 'DENIED AND IMPACTFUL' QUANTUM MAGNETIC FIELD FLUX!)" of those of good intention, while those of good intention (GOOD QUANTUM FIELD FLUX!) are "matter of factly" successfully "INFLUENCING (GAINING 'QUANTUM MAGNETIC FIELD FLUX CONTROL'!)" over "ACCESS AND PRIVACY (I.E., OVER 'DENIED AND IMPACTFUL' FIELD FLUX!)" of those of evil intention!
            .
            And, inasmuch!... as the power of those of evil intention can never achieve CORRECT QUANTUM MAGNETIC FIELD FLUX INTEGRITY!... AND THERBY, QUANTUM MAGNETIC FIELD FLUX CONTROL (although!... at times!... it may appear to those of "little faith" that those of evil intent have achieved QUANTUM MAGNETIC FIELD FLUX INTEGRITY!)!
            .
            AND KNOW THIS!... IT WAS C-O-N-S-C-I-E-N-C-E THAT F-I-R-S-T GAVE RISE TO THE REALIZATION OF THE POWER OF NUMBERS (AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!)!... AND WHICH-- IN TURN!-- T-H-E-N GAVE RISE TO THE POWER OF MATHEMATICS! A-N-D!... IT IS C-O-N-S-C-I-E-N-C-E A-L-O-N-E THAT WILL CONTINUE TO RULE THE INHERENT POWER OF NUMBERS AND MATHEMATICS!... AND!... INASMUCH, AS NUMBERS AND MATHEMATICS IN A MIND DEVOID OF THE POWER OF "E-F-F-E-C-T-E-D C-O-N-S-C-I-E-N-C-E", CAN NEVER ACHIEVE ULTIMATE NUMERIC AND MATHEMATIC INTEGRITY!... AND THEREBY, ULTIMATE NUMERIC AND MATHEMATIC CONTROL!

            In other words, the Global Security Community has got to begin to incorporate "INTENTION DEVICE TECHNOMA (I.E., 'UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE TRIPWIRE TECHNOMA'!)" within Hardware, if it desires a solution to the "PRIVACY VS ACCESS" issue!
            .
            To sum up... and a suggestion!... what is needed is a Global Conference on the Application of the "Uncertainty Principle" in Quantum Mechanics-- and, of the power of the quantum mechanics of human intention!-- to Cyber Security!... and!... ON THE IMPLICATIONS OF MANDATING THE INCORPORATION of "INTENTION DEVICES" TO WITHIN PCs, AND TO WITHIN THE "THINGS" THAT WILL COMPOSE/ COMPRISE THE PENDING UBIQUITOUS "INTERNET OF THINGS"!

            *see, http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/mar2/tiller.htm... and, http://www.shiftfrequency.com/sub-quantum-reality/... and, http://in5d.com/10-scientific-studies-that-prove-consciousness-can-alter-our-physical-material-world /
            .
            Please!... no emails!

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            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 23 Sep 2016 @ 11:16am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

              I knew it would be a hoot

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              • icon
                orbitalinsertion (profile), 23 Sep 2016 @ 1:30pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

                I was really hoping for more about the magnetic pull of the sun, though.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  John Mayor, 25 Sep 2016 @ 1:48am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

                  I'm not sure whether you're being deliberately abstruse AND obtuse!... but, you appear to have completely missed the analogy!... and point!
                  .
                  Regardless of the exactitude of mathematics, mathematics without the dimension of human ethos, is meaningless!... i.e., the ethos that humans bring-- or fail to bring!-- to the "formulations" we apply to objects and to processes! And when it comes to applying "formulations" to "organic objects", and-- in particular!-- "organic processes (and most notably, 'organic processes' which are pegged to, or associated with the exercise of human FREE WILL!... AND OTHER 'PROTANTHROPETHOSIC/ PROTETHOSIC INTRAPERSONAL AND INTERPERSONAL BEHAVIORAL PRINCIPLES'!)", "formulations" which fail to take into account (YEA, UNDERMINE!) "PROTANTHROPETHOSIC PRINCIPLES"/ "PROTETHOSIC PRINCIPLES" should be either "reformulated" until they do, or tagged as "ANANTHROPETHOSIC (i.e., 'pertaining to that which is without human ethos'!)"/ "ANETHOSIC (i.e., 'pertaining to that which is without ethos'!)"!
                  .
                  And!... "ANANTHROPETHOSY ('that which is without human ethos'!)"/ "ANETHOSY ('that which is without ethos"!)", being-- potentially!-- the greatest "ANTHROPOPATHY ('human pathy'!)" of ALL of the pathic "contagions" people may encounter, or exhibit! And inasmuch... and simply put!... as "IDIOAITIAIOTHELEMAPATHY"/ "AUTAITIAIOTHELEMAPATHY (i.e., 'personally caused volitional pathy'!... see, ἴδιος/ αὐτός, αἰτίαi, θέλημα/ βούληση/ θέληση/ thélisi/ voúli̱si, πάθος)"!... and especially, a will that is the result of PERSONAL COGNITIVE NEGLECT (in contrast, to a will that is the result of an "EXAITIAIOTHELEMAPATHY"!... i.e., EXTERNALLY CAUSED VOLITIONAL PATHY!)!... can have the most detrimental impact on the will of others!
                  .
                  Please!... no emails!

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          John Mayor, 22 Sep 2016 @ 10:47pm

          Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

          Sorry!... I just attempted to send you a response to the "mathematics of human intention"!... but, this site is perpetually denying my comment! I Pasted it yesterday as a response in the Hillary piece!... but, as was the case just moments ago, the comment was "flagged for review before Posting"! And!... of course!... it was a "no show" yesterday, today, and now! And!... I should point out!... this "flagging" is unlike any of my other comments!... i.e., my other comments have appeared here-- for example!-- instantly! It would appear that something within this specific comment, is to be kept from Techdirt eyes! Nevertheless!... I'll see if I can come up with a different approach!
          .
          Please!... no emails!

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 7:17pm

        Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

        P.S.: In other words, to avoid the HUMAN CONTEXT behind the programmer's programs... and the math that goes with it!... is to avoid the A-C-T-U-A-L C-O-N-T-E-X-T of the l-i-n-e-a-r n-u-m-b-e-r s-e-t-s that/ which comprises/ comprise the programs of the programmer!
        .
        It's akin to what "zealots" do, when these read scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT! Reading "linear number sets" OUT OF CONTEXT is no different!
        .
        Please!... no emails!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 5:25am

          Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

          So, programming is like the bible .... wow, ok then.
          What Would Jesus Program?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            John Mayor, 22 Sep 2016 @ 8:35pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: THE ETHOS BEHIND THE NUMBERS: THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE ETHOS

            Sorry I'm so late in responding!... but, I had to deal with some O-T-H-E-R C-R-A-P on a wholly different site!
            .
            So... what would Jesus Program? Well!... through Kurt Gödel (a Christian!), this:...
            .
            Two scientists have formalized a theorem regarding the existence of God, originally penned by the mathematician, Kurt Gödel. And as a result of their efforts, their formalization will now enable computers to make scientific progress, easier.
            .
            Analyzing a theorem from the late Austrian mathematician with a Macbook, has proven that God exists!-- say, the two scientists, Christoph Benzmuller of Berlin's Free University, and his colleague, Bruno Woltzenlogel Paleo, of the Technical University in Vienna.
            .
            Gödel's Theorem is based on MODAL LOGIC, a type of formal logic, that-- narrowly defined!-- involves the use of the expressions, "necessarily", and "possibly (according, to Stanford University!)".
            .
            The Theorem, proposes that God-- OR A SUPREME BEING!-- is that, for which, no greater can be conceived. God exists in the understanding. If God exists in the understanding, we could imagine such to be yet greater than our understanding-- beyond which, no greater can be conceived!-- by existing, IN REALITY! Thus, God must exist!
            .
            Paleo and Benzmuller say that they have proven that the Theorem is correct!-- at least, on a mathermatical level!
            .
            In their initial submission on a research server, "Formalization, Mechanization and Automation of Gödel's Proof of God's Existence", the researchers say, that: "Godel's ontological proof has been analyzed for the first time with an unprecedented degree of detail, and formality, with the help of higher-order theorem provers."
            .
            They add: "The following has been done (in the ensuing order): a detailed natural deduction proof; a formalization of the axioms, definitions and theorems in the TPTP THF syntax; automatic verification of the consistency of the axioms and definitions with Nitpick; automatic demonstration of the theorems with the provers, LEO-II and Satallax; a step-by-step formalization using the Coq proof assistant; a formalization using the Isabelle proof assistant, where the theorems (and some additional lemmata) have been automated with Sledgehammer and Metis".
            .
            In his talks with a representative of the German weekly mag Der Spiegel, Benzmuller states that it's fascinating how the Theorem could be anaylzed through mathematics. Saying: "It's totally amazing that from this argument led by Gödel, all this stuff can be proven automatically in a few seconds-- or even less!-- on a standard notebook computer."
            .
            To sum, one important further leap forward, would be to prove that God-- this Supreme Being!-- delivered the person of Jesus Christ to mankind, in order to bring mankind into direct fellowship with Him!... and, His domain! Enjoy!
            .
            Please!... no emails!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    orbitalinsertion (profile), 21 Sep 2016 @ 3:30pm

    The phrase always reminds me of doing-math-on-a-plane terrorist suspect Guido Menzio.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 3:32pm

    MORE ETHOS

    P.S.: I... for example!... am more than just my missing letter "a"!
    .
    Please!... no emails!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 4:15pm

    AND MORE ETHOS

    Oh!... and a crime may involve the use of mathematics!... and programming! And so!... what's the distinction between the math and programming in such behavior? The answer is... C-O-N-T-E-X-T!! AND!... THE "Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y" SUCH C-O-N-T-E-X-T CAN BE "Q-U-A-N-T-I-F-I-E-D"!!
    .
    Please!... no emails!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Atkray (profile), 21 Sep 2016 @ 5:17pm

    I sure hope that the accountants over at the movie and recording studios don't catch wind of this.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    ricardo the fabulous, 21 Sep 2016 @ 7:53pm

    mathmatically inclined

    x = y because if x is not equal to y then y becomes the step relation to x which it is clearly not in this relationship.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    John Mayor, 21 Sep 2016 @ 8:18pm

    PROGRAMMING, MATH, AND HUMAN CONTEXT

    Mike!... to deny "H-U-M-A-N C-O-N-T-E-X-T-U-A-L-I-Z-E-D P-R-O-G-R-A-M-M-I-N-G A-N-D M-A-T-H (i.e., the larger ETHOS PICTURE!)", is to suggest that all math is the same! And although this may be true on a linear level (i.e., re the the bits and pieces that compose/ comprise a program!), it cannot-- and should not!-- be said, re the LARGER "CONTEXTUALIZED NUMBER SETS", THAT COMPOSE/ COMPRISE THE ETHOS OF THE HUMANS (AND THEIR BEHAVIOR!) BEHIND THE PROGRAMS, AND THE MATH ASSOCIATED WITH THESE PROGRAMS! WE ESTABLISH THE PARAMETERS OF THE NUMBER SETS!... THE NUMBER SETS DON'T DETERMINE O-U-R PARAMETERS!
    .
    The questions to be asked, are:... What is the H-U-M-A-N C-O-N-T-E-X-T within which the math is being used (i.e., the ETHOS tied to the program and it's math!)!... and!... What is the MATHEMATICAL RIGOUR we're employing/ invoking, to "QUANTIFY" the "QUALITY" of the "CONTEXT" we've arrived at! If one denies the Human Right to "QUANTIFY" the "QUALITY" of "HUMAN CONTEXT" re a program and its attendant mathematics... OR-- INDEED!-- denies that a "HUMAN CONTEXT" should even be entertained!... T-H-E-N W-E-'-R-E D-E-N-Y-I-N-G O-U-R R-I-G-H-T T-O I-N-V-O-K-E A "S-C-I-E-N-C-E O-F M-A-T-H-E-M-A-T-I-C E-T-H-O-S" A-S A P-R-E-R-E-Q-U-I-S-I-T-E C-O-R-O-L-L-A-R-Y T-O O-U-R P-R-O-G-R-A-M-M-I-N-G A-N-D N-U-M-B-E-R-S! And!... explains how the Volkswagen Emission Scandal occurred!
    .
    If one is lost in a narrow swamp of linear thinking (deliberately!... never letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing!... and thereby, allowing for "plausible deniability!), we're allowing the ETHOIC CONTEXT to escape us, in exchange for the "comfort" of willful and/ or subconscious/ subconscience subterfuge! In other words!... had the CONTEXT of the programming (and its math!) been apparent (i.e., to the right people!... AND BY LAW!) these chumps at Volkswagen could never have gotten away with what they got away with, AT THE OUTSET!
    .
    Please!... no emails!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2016 @ 10:04pm

      Re: PROGRAMMING, MATH, AND HUMAN CONTEXT

      FELLOW ALIEN, YOU ARE REVEALING OUR PRESENCE TO THE FLESHY ONES! YOU NEED RETRAINING IN HU-MAN BEHAVIOUR! REPORT TO THE MOTHERSHIP BEFORE YOU RUIN OUR PLANS!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 5:26am

        Re: Re: PROGRAMMING, MATH, AND HUMAN CONTEXT

        Bender 2016
        Because you meatbags had your chance

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        John Mayor, 25 Sep 2016 @ 1:58am

        Re: Re: PROGRAMMING, MATH, AND HUMAN CONTEXT

        Sorry!... you're alone on this one! If you hadn't made your comment, no one would have known about your "mother's ship"!
        .
        Please!... no emails!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Nero, 21 Sep 2016 @ 9:03pm

    Speeling

    If you had one with "Maths is not a crime" ...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 12:46am

    I swear John Mayor is the result of what might happen if Whatever, out_of_the_blue and Technopolitical got together, had an orgy, took a dump, collected their stool samples, and adopted as a child...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      CK20XX (profile), 22 Sep 2016 @ 6:19am

      Re:

      I kinda want to have a rap battle with him, which is a lot more than I can say for all those other guys.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 8:31pm

        Re: Re:

        How do you rap with a dash, hyphen or exclamation point? Do you open your mouth and pause with no sound coming out, with your facial expression determining the intensity and subsequently, what punctuation mark it signifies?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      John Mayor, 22 Sep 2016 @ 9:05pm

      Re:

      I think it's time for your nappy! And don't drink any more Ex-Law before heading off to sleep!... your wife has changed enough diapers and sheets for one lifetime!! Unless!... and of course!... you're using Depends underwear!... in which case, crap away! But!... crack a window!... she shouldn't have gag over your bodily fluids!... in addition, to your daily nauseating "verbal diarrhea (and, of course!... in the guise, of 'intellectual prowess', and 'astute insight'!)"!
      .
      Please!... no emails!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      John Mayor, 22 Sep 2016 @ 10:10pm

      Re:

      I apologize!... I didn't mean to imply that your wife was already an Ex- Anonymous Coward!... it just came out that way! I was reviewing Ex-Law and Ex-Lax at the same time, and I chose the wrong punchline! H*ll!... who wouldn't want to be married to you!... right? You're a catch! A veritable debonair, bon vivant, *ss-kickin S.O.B.!... am I right? The next best thing since sliced wiener schnitzel!... although, more wiener, than schnitzel! But hey!... who's watching?... eh! Enough chit chat!... for now!
      .
      Please!... no emails!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Sep 2016 @ 2:00pm

    Putting "math" instead of maths is criminal.......

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      John Mayor, 26 Sep 2016 @ 7:49pm

      Re:

      The Greek term "mathema", in Latin, translates to "science"! And thus, "math" and "maths" are inappropriate abbreviations for the TECHNE associated with the "manipulation of numbers"!
      .
      However!... the Greek word "arithmós", in Latin, translates to "number"! But!... Arithmos-- in and of itself!-- doesn't convey the science, or the process, associated with the manipulation of numbers (let alone, the acknowledgement of the symbols to be found within "Mathematics"!... i.e., the "Operators" that the TECHNE of "Mathematics" uses!)!
      .
      Now... although the "science of numbers" could be written as "Mathemarithmós", the PROCESS-- as such-- is yet missing from this expression! But!... when the Greek suffix "-sis" is added (referring to the "condition, state, or process of something"!) Mathemarithmós can be transformed!... and to,
      "Mathemarithmósis", and its adjective, "Mathemarithmotic"!
      .
      To conclude... although Mathemarithmósis comes closer to the TECHNE more able to eclipse Mathematics, it is still short of its potential "epistemologic transcendence"!... i.e., the "morphemic affix" that will capture the absolute "epistemologic nuance"-- yea, "apex"!-- of all that is the fullness, of the successor to "Mathematics"!
      .
      And so... I give you, "Dia_meta_mathem_arith_mósis (i.e., the, 'Utter_meta_science_of_numeric_process'!)"!... or!... "Dia_mathem_arith_mósis (i.e., the, 'Utter_science_of_numeric_process'!)"!
      .
      Please!... no emails!
      .
      P.S.: The Latin-based "PAX-ROMANA IMPOSED (through the scribes of Latium!)" suffixal morphemic element "-al (for 'pertaining to'!)", is an unnecessary, redundant adjectival morphemic element and addition to the abridged Greek suffixal morphemic element "-ic", for "pertaining to (from 'IK-OS'... the omitted '-os', referring to that which is 'characteristic of', and 'abounding in'!)"! And thus, the Latin suffix "-al", should not succeed the suffixal element, "-ic (SAVE, WHEREIN, '-IC' IS A PROVEN LATIN-BASED SUFFIXAL ELEMENT!)"!... AND, SURELY, NOT FOR WORDS HAVING WHOLLY "GREEK" MORPHEMIC ELEMENTS (I.E., ROOTS, STEMS, INFIXES, AND PREFIXES!)! And inasmuch, as there is no need to borrow from Latin, what is abundantly available from within the ancient Greek Language!... let alone, from more contemporary versions of the ancient Greek Language! Simply put, Latin is not the basis of the English Language!... Greek is! Latin, instead, is more the BASTARDIZATION of the ancient and contemporary Greek Languages!... and a continued ASSAULT on the rise of the "English Language"! And hence the critique, on the aforenoted Latin suffixal element, "-al"!
      .
      Frankly!... the ROMANS were "pushy"!... and desired to subvert/ subjugate the Greek culture!... in addition to physic_ly destroying its people! *ssholes!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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