Entertainment Industry Now Shaking Down People At $10 Per Infringement

from the price-is-dropping,-but-it's-automated dept

A few months back, I met with the CEO of a rather successful indie label, talking about business models and strategy. His label had already done a number of really creative and innovative things with its artists, and had found a fair bit of success that way. The label was trying out a number of cool technologies, and I was pretty impressed at the overall strategy. However, he was also debating if he wanted to sign up with a company called Digital Rights Corp, which he said had done a really compelling presentation to him recently, in which it claimed that it would hit up everyone filesharing unauthorized copies of his label's music... and ask them to pay $10 per infringement. He claimed that the company was successful in getting most ISPs to pass on such a monetary request. At the time I hadn't heard of the company, and in looking into it, many of the claims seemed pretty unbelievable.

However, now it appears the company is getting some press coverage, and indeed claims that lots of ISPs have been passing on its "pay up" letters. The company says it has no plans to sue at all. It's sort of a new tactic in copyright trolling: just send a bill and get the ISP to pass it along. The $10 per infringement is certainly a hell of a lot cheaper than what copyright trolls have asked for in the past. And, of course, the reason this system works is it's mostly automated. They put together a list of IP addresses that they assume are infringing, send it to the ISP, and get the ISP to pass along the demands for cash. Two ISPs who have refused have been taken to court (but no individuals have been taken to court).

I do wonder how many people actually pay up when receiving such a letter -- probably a pretty good number, even if there's no legal basis for them to do so. Either way, it seems like the latest evolution in copyright trolling. Don't file lawsuits, but automate, and keep the amounts low to try to make it up in volume.


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  1.  
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    Rabbit80, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 1:58pm

    I actually have no problem with this.. They most likely will drop any cases of denial, those that feel guilty will pay - thats the price of getting caught (and its a fair amount).

    The issue will be simply that people will cotton on and stop paying - the plan is doomed from the start.

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:01pm

    If I ever receive one of those I will be a default judgement, send me to jail, let the state be responsible for my healthcare, food and shelter.

     

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  3.  
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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:03pm

    Re: Silly Rabbit

    Aren't people still paying those stupid automated speeding tickets? What makes you think people will catch on?

     

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  4.  
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    MrWilson, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:05pm

    Re:

    "those that feel guilty will pay"

    Or those who fear being sued and who don't know better will pay. You can't assume everyone will know not to pay, regardless of whether or not they did this.

    I say this method should carry the same burden of proof that a debt collector must have. Prove that the person to whom the IP address is connected is in fact the person who violated the copyright and that the use was not fair use or else it's a fraudulent attempt to collect money and should be treated as such.

     

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  5.  
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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:05pm

    Re: Prison

    And, you can work for between $0.50 & $1.25 an hour for the Prison Industrial complex--all while they make excuses to keep you in jail for longer; and without the benefit of modern amenities like beer & strippers...

     

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  6.  
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    Designerfx (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:07pm

    Re:

    I on the other hand, do have a problem with paying for something that's not even illegal. $10 may be small, but anything greater than zero is too much to pay for simply sharing music.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:09pm

    It is actually a good business model if the letters are written properly. and the expenses and hands in the pie are kept to a minimum. If the letters make the recievers believe that this is "voluntary" and more of a moral obligation than a legal one, they may have something to it.

    It is really no different than how tele- and mail- marketing work. Send out 10,000 letters each asking for a small "donation" or "purchase" etc. It is generally expected that a 1% response is a good average return.

    By sending the letters in bulk to the ISP, the ISP's now bare the cost of postage, saving the company a large expense.

    However, without the promise of larger amounts, I don't believe there will be enough profit to go around and actually be distributed to the artists. At each level of this, someone is going to take a piece.

    Maybe "We lose a little on each person, but we make up for it in volume?"

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:22pm

    Re: Re:

    It is illegal, though it shouldn't be.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:27pm

    You're right Masnick. The label should go back to suing individual infringers at $150,000 a pop.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:27pm

    Sounds like a pretty good idea. I hardly see how it's "shaking down people."

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:28pm

    Re:

    ...or they should just do like Asia and not sue anyone.

     

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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:34pm

    Re:

    The amount doesn't matter. I don't care if I get a letter asking for a penny or a million dollars. It's shaking down people by demanding you pay them or get taken to court. It's demanding money with menaces.

     

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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:34pm

    Re: Re:

    Edit: *asking for a penny
    Should be "demanding a penny".

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:37pm

    What I find it amusing is that copyright is this big deal in the US right now and in the rest of the world people just don't care, heck studios and labels are putting out their content in Asia for free, people in China have more access to free content than their American counterparts, why?

    Because the greedy bastards want a piece of the 1.2 or 1.7 billion people in China, but they are not making too much progress there since production of home grown entertainment that caters to their own culture is booming and so they don't see the need to consume American entertainment and the locals don't sue their customers, they don't call them thieves, they don't do any of that stuff that annoys consumers and still they see growth numbers that are just mind boggling.

    c'est la vie I guess, maybe it is time to say goobye to American culture it has gone down the toilet, maybe it is time to create a new culture based on openness where people don't get worried about what others are doing but instead can use what others did to enhance and make better things, where people don't spend time trying to enforce ridiculous rights that seems more like the rights of self centered people who just can't live with the thought that others may be using something he used not created and he feels some sort of ownership.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:40pm

    I would just add them to my spam filter. Oh noes, I never got your mass unsolicited emails!! Same as BayTSP et all.

     

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    ArkieGuy (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:40pm

    Shakedown or Indemnification?

    Assuming the letter came with an indemnification clause that states that the payment waives any further action by the copyright holder, this might be a good thing. I would consider sending $10 to avoid the possibility of receiving one of the $1500/$2500 letters (like the ones going to some people that downloaded the Hurt Locker).

     

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  17.  
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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:40pm

    Re: Re: Ah, so

    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word.
    "Professor" Irwin Corey

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:41pm

    Re: Re: Prison

    You don't know much about prisons do you?

    They have strippers.

     

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  19.  
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    crade (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:43pm

    Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    exactly, it's worth paying 10$ to not have your knees broken! It's only 10$.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:43pm

    Re: Re: Prison

    About the beer, you don't get beer but you get Pruno.

    But I don't drink.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:44pm

    The cynical side of me suspects that this reasonable fee (irrespective of what it may seem to be for) likely provides a name address and complete identity of someone to /suspect/ and more strongly investigate for such infringement.

    In fact it may even be compelling evidence to obtain a warrant for such an investigation and go on a nice copyright infringement fishing trip through all of that subject's accessible storage.

    Why can't they just wake up and make the easiest path a legal and value-priced one that I can use on my own platform(s) of choice? No DRM, no lock in stuff, just treat me with the same respect even fast food restaurants give their paying customers.

    Not to even consider how integrating fan based foreign language subtitling efforts and connecting with the fans in a broader discussion on the series and back-stories involved could both be excellent advertising and a living release instead of death-snapshot sandwiched between poly-carbonate platters.

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:46pm

    Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    Shakedown of course.

     

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  23.  
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    A. Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:49pm

    Sneaky!

    This has to be the cheapest way to identify infringers and build a database. Get the ISP to pass on the notice (correct person or not), any one who pays is now on a list with their names, addresses, and proof that they have infringed in the past. Eventually the big labels have a private list of all IP addresses and names, and then being able to simple bypass the ISPs all together and send the letters direct. All paid for by unsuspecting individuals who though $10 was a bargain. Everyone, please ignore these letters if you get them.

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:52pm

    This kind of thing is what makes me feel good about piracy.

    Every time a rip Disney, Warner, Universal, Penguin Group, EMI or any other publisher, label or studio I just feel all fuzzy and warm inside.

     

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  25.  
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    Richard (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 2:59pm

    Re: Sneaky!

    Eventually the big labels have a private list of all IP addresses and names,

    IP addresses - which for many people change every hour or two.

    Yeah - really useful.

     

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  26.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:00pm

    Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    The problem with this is that your clause would only waive action by the one copyright holder. What about the other 99,000 copyright holders who will jump in on this? Are you going to pay $10 to 99,000 different people?
    Heh! Remember Project $10 that the video game industry has been trying over the past couple of years. THIS is the new Project $10!

     

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  27.  
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    Hoby (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:00pm

    That's pretty disgusting.. a neglectful, spammish way of fleecing the population. It looks like legalized phishing to me.

     

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  28.  
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    Irate Pirate, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:01pm

    Re: Re: Silly Rabbit

    $10 may be small, but paying this means they'll learn who you are in many cases. Once they have a name to go with the IP address, they can then watch for other infringements, then send a much bigger bill to you directly, bypassing the ISP. That's a pretty decent scam if you ask me. The only way I see around this is to pay them anonymously using cash provided that is allowed. How many of the accused are going to do that you think? Most people tend to write cheques or use a credit card.

     

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  29.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:07pm

    "he company says it has no plans to sue at all."

    Hey, Mike, do us a favor please? Can you get that as an exact quote from the company? All I can say is that from this article and from the one you linked to, its hear-say. Its not a direct quote.
    The thing is, if that is true, then whoever receives letters from these guys can simply go up to a judge and literally show proof Rights Corp never wanted to go to court, that it is literally a shakedown scam.

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:08pm

    IP addresses change

    In many cases, just rebooting your modem can change your IP address. Since someone from the outside cannot know whether this is the case, they always have to go through the ISP with an IP address and a timestamp.

    (I wonder how reliable these timestamps are. Do they have a low-stratum synchronized clock, or do they set the server time once with a wristwatch and let it drift? And even if their timestamps are reliable, who says the ISP's log timestamps are?)

     

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    Irate Pirate, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:17pm

    Re: IP addresses change

    That is why it's called speculative invoicing. It is based on the premise that an IP address equals the infringer. We know that is completely idiotic, but the industry doesn't care. So long as they get their money, it doesn't matter to them who it came from.

     

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  32.  
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    HothMonster, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:21pm

    Re: Re:

    im with you, many people will pay out of fear rather than guilt

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:31pm

    Re: Re:

    I missed the "or get taken to court" bit. Did you just throw that in?

    Also, I don't see every request for payment one has a legal right to receive as a shake down. For example, I don't think those signs in dressing rooms saying "we prosecute shoplifters to the fullest extent of the law" as a shake down.

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:33pm

    This tactic shall be called: microtrollsactions

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:34pm

    Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    "Are you going to pay $10 to 99,000 different people?"

    Is it really that horrible to pay them $10 for an album? I just don't see that as some sort of nightmare scenario.

     

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  36.  
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    Rich Kulawiec, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:36pm

    So...they're spamming.

    1. They're sending email. (They admit same.)
    2. They're sending bulk email. (They admit same.)
    3. They're sending unsolicited bulk email (There are no facts available which suggest that recipients have requested these messages.)

    Unsolicited bulk email (UBE) is of course the canonical definion of spam (in the context of SMTP)...and this is exactly what they're doing.

    Time to start blacklisting their domain/network/sending servers, just like any other spammer.

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:36pm

    The commenter reaction here is just blowing my mind.

    The outrage, OUTRAGE! that someone would ask for $10 for an album! HOW DARE THEY!!??

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:37pm

    Re:

    God forbid they ask you for $10 and not want to sue you. That's HORRIBLE!

     

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    anonymous, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:44pm

    the IP address still doesn't identify the person, only the account holder, so yes, this is still a 'shake down' as there is no proof of who did the 'infringing' if it did in fact actually take place.

    which ISPs were taken to court because they didn't pass on the info? what was the outcome?

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 3:55pm

    Re:

    Better watch out with an attitude like that. If you state is like Arizona and you get sent to jail you owe $65 per day you are in jail to the state.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:11pm

    Re: Re:

    And if I don't pay what are they going to do, send me to jail?

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:15pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    What legal right one has to receive from somebody that they didn't assert did anything wrong?

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:16pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Also your analogy needs rephrasing.

    Is like accusing everybody who enters your shop of being a shoplifter and prosecuting all of them to the fullest extend of the law if they don't pay up.

    Now there fixed for ya.

     

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  44.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:17pm

    Re: Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    Why should I pay for something that I didn't ask for?
    Do you pay $10 dollars for what others did?

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:19pm

    Re: Re:

    God forbid someone needs to prove any wrong doing before accusing others and asking for money.

    OMG that is just unthinkable.

    Apparently it is too much to ask for due diligence and a fair system.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:22pm

    Re:

    What blows my mind is that someone would be against due diligence in accusing others of any wrong doing and actually having some hard evidence instead of mere accusations.

    Want to see what happens if everybody were allowed to just make others criminals by an accusation alone?

    You are a pedophile and should go to jail.

    I bet you will ask me to prove you are really a pedophile don't you?

     

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    monkyyy, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:26pm

    Re: Re: Sneaky!

    that, and that the ones they think theyre fining know tech, and even if caught and stupid will start using safer methods

     

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    monkyyy, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:31pm

    Re:

    really id feel dead inside for seeding that junk?

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:33pm

    That's a good idea, I should send such letter to people too.
    Free money here I come.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 4:44pm

    This seems a lot more reasonable than what Jamie Thomas got hit with.

    It's clearly a cash grab but still. It's better than what the other guys are doing.

     

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  51.  
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    Bengie, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 5:31pm

    Re: IP addresses change

    Most broadband devices require being in sync with with the network's clock because the encryption is time sensitive.

     

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    Aleron, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 5:32pm

    Seriously, Who would respond to such a letter? with all the phising crap around what part of you would say, 'It must be true, I must be guilty, I will respond and pay and forever be branded as a copyright thief'. You would have to be a complete idiot to do anything but ignore it.

    I think this basis for this story is a huge red herring, designed purely to test peoples reactions and see what proportion of you would be willing to pay an imaginary $10 copyright fine. Have fun with the results guys, market research comes in many forms.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 5:32pm

    Re:

    c'est la vie I guess, maybe it is time to say goobye to American culture it has gone down the toilet

    "Maybe"?
    Dude, they made a Battleship movie. Hollywood spent $200 million making a movie about humanity fighting off alien ships that attack by firing pegs.
    There's no "maybe" about it.

     

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  54.  
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    Prisoner 201, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 8:44pm

    Re: Re:

    Why? Just serve him. And everyone in his town.

    Ask for $10 to drop the case.

    $10 is cheap for proving you are not a pedophile, right?

    Sounds like a fair deal to me.

     

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  55.  
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    Prisoner 201, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 8:47pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Also THIS.

     

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  56.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:10pm

    Re: Re:

    So what dude, it means nothing it people don't watch does it?

    Do you ever wonder what Bollywood is?
    Nollywood?
    China an Japan actually are small markets for American movies today do you ever wonder why?

    Those are not maybes too, dude.

     

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  57.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:11pm

    Re:

    No it doesn't.

     

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  58.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:24pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If you rephrase your question, I might be able to provide a coherent answer. Otherwise, I'd just be guessing at your meaning.

     

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  59.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:25pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    What makes you think they're sending these notices to everyone who "enters their shop?" (and what is the analog to "entering their shop" in this analogy?)?

     

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  60.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:27pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    You shouldn't. How is that relevant?

     

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  61.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:30pm

    Re: Re:

    What do you consider "hard evidence?"

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be equating a complete lack of evidence with some evidence that might possibly be refuted.

    Of course, you also seem to be equating $10 with a jail sentence, but that's a separate issue.

     

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  62.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:50pm

    Re: Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    These are letters you're going to get in the mail accusing you of downloading an album and then demanding $10.
    Tell me. Did you download the album? No? Do they have hard proof you did?
    What we have here is literally a scam. They have no way of proving in court that you are guilty. Unless of course you're spineless enough to confess.
    Now, I get it, you see paying $10 as fair for an album. All right, but what if you did buy the discs, and then still get this letter? Are you now just going to fork over another $10? Are you actually saying that you are the kind of person who literally throws money away just because of a legal nastygram?
    And I noticed you don't have a response to "Are you going to pay $10 to 99,000 different people". Because you can't. If you do pay $10 in response to the first letter, then the next ten thousand letters, from ten thousand different people to jump in on this, will also demand a lowly $10. Come on, its a few bucks alright? Surely you can afford 10,000 x $10 = $100,000...

     

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  63.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 9:57pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    These letters are ACCUSING you without any PROOF! That's what has my blood at a boil. That, and they don't actually intend to go to court (I hope Mike can get that as an exact quote, not as a second-hand "they said X")
    Your analogy doesn't make sense. A shop that has signs up saying "We prosecute shoplifters" would probably have uniformed security and CCTV. And by prosecute, they mean, take you to court, where you have the legal right to defend yourself These are letters coming in the mail with no legal backing to them, accusing you of breaking the law, but with no actual proof that would stand up in a court of law.
    And about "get taken to court". If that's not actually in the letter...then why pay at all?

     

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  64.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Sep 23rd, 2011 @ 10:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "It collects the IP addresses—which identify individual internet subscribers—of alleged copyright violators and then instructs Internet service providers (ISPs) to send settlement offers on to subscribers. Rightscorp then takes a cut from anyone who pays the settlement."

    I.P. addresses are not proof. They're simply pulling a huge list of numbers, sending it to the ISP who in turn send it to the account subscribers. So yes, they are sending notices to a lot of people. The problem is that the I.P. addresses cannot be trusted. They can spoofed, networked routers can be hacked, the list itself can be poisoned by the torrent trackers...

     

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  65.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 24th, 2011 @ 12:08am

    $10 is not a problem

    $10 is cheaper than buying the movie legally...

     

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  66.  
    icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 12:09am

    Re: IP addresses change

    Having read way more of the mass lawsuits filings than is healthy for a human, the tracking firms are paying attention to your concerns.

    They now use the atomic clock network to keep their capture servers running at the correct time.
    This however does not take into account ISPs who might not be as vigilant at keeping their servers updated, and this could lead to false identifications.

    They have moved the capture operations into the state where the lawfirm extorting the cash is based, to attempt to deal with issues of venue and jurisdiction.

    Several of the tracking "firms" are merely limited spin off firms from a main firm. They are using the same technique in each, but using a different "provider" in each case. If one of these subfirms gets an expert review and discredited as not being completely accurate only those cases collapse not the entire firms business model of selling this information to various lawfirms.

     

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  67.  
    icon
    Any Mouse (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 12:31am

    Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    It is $10 per instance of copyright infringement (accusation). So download an album with 12 songs, that's $120 dollars. Who are these other copyright holders?

     

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  68.  
    icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 12:38am

    While they are telling potential clients they are only asking for $10, I'd like to see the actual letter they are sending out.

    One of the porn mass lawsuit trolls told his client the demand was only going to be $50, the troll of course was asking for a couple thousand dollars. This gives the content producer a black eye as being a money grubbing troll demanding payments from 70 yr olds, and blind people. (true cases sadly) The lawyer collects thousands and sends the content owner a check for $50 for each person who paid up and pockets after costs the lions share.

    I enjoy seeing all of the standard AC's responding with conviction that anyone accused must be guilty, and anyone questioning this blatant cash grab has to be a pirate stealing trillions and feeding on the blood of newborn babies.
    Some of the AC's seem to have confused a business model for extorting music fans with a model to extort movie fans.
    An AC saying how its better than the Thomas case, the first glaring difference being a court case and evidence.

    There is a new wave of scammer out there, they are using Copyright Violation Notices as their preferred method to lure people into the scam. Boingboing had a thread about a bank being hit with these style of letter, asking people to goto a website to "review the evidence". This installed malware and all sorts of things.
    How long until the Nigerian Princes/Bankers are all ICE Agents demanding payments for alleged crimes?
    We look at spam and laugh, but if it was not working on some people why would the keep trying?
    There is a subset of people out there who will pay any demand made to them by email, they are sure it must be the truth.

    Just because someone says they have a record of "your" IP address doing something, does not make it true. It does not tell you who was doing it, and this just adds to the perception that if you pay for the account you must be liable - a novel idea that has yet to ever be tested in court.

    And something else to note... they want $10 for the infringement... they treat each track of the album as a new infringment... 19 tracks = $190 300 tracks = $3000

    Is $10 still cheaper than the cost of a single music track?

     

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  69.  
    identicon
    Prisoner 201, Sep 24th, 2011 @ 1:21am

    Re: Re: Re:

    An IP address is not evidence. At best it is a clue to where eveidence might be found.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 1:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    IT is when only about 3 centa gets to the artists. And that's if they're already in the black. Which is a BIG ask from people who can make Return of the Jedi a loss-leader.

     

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  71.  
    icon
    hmm (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 7:08am

    sneaky

    Its normally quite expensive to get someones identity, as you have to file motions in court etc etc the ISP defends, back n forth, lawyers profit.

    New model....We offer them "tiny" payments, don't promise to not sue for this matter/something else...they pay...we have their name/address/admission of guilt ready for suing, and all without expensive discovery motions that the judge may just turn down.

    Hell, they could even say "hey look...collective admissions of guilt! NOW the judge will let us lump them all together for mass infringement financial rape (of their wallets)."

     

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  72.  
    icon
    hmm (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 7:10am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    They collect $10 from each "infringer"

    "your honor, we promise that $9 dollars will go to the artists"

    turns out sadly thats $9 shared between 20,000 artists..........

     

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  73.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 9:40am

    Re: IP addresses change

    With regard to timestamps, IIRC, at least one of the RIAA's shakedown attempts failed because the ISP provided the wrong person's details due to a time zone error.

    So, no, they're not 100% reliable even if they're recorded correctly.

     

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  74.  
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    PaulT (profile), Sep 24th, 2011 @ 9:44am

    Re:

    "those that feel guilty will pay - thats the price of getting caught"

    As ever, the major problem I have with these actions is that it's almost trivially in many cases to fake the information being used to sue. If my next door neighbour gets sued/fined because the only had a WEP encryption set up and I fancied downloading something, that's almost the exact opposite of justice being served. If the clampdown continues, you can bet that more people will work out how to spoof IP addresses and break encryption than actually stop infringing...

     

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  75.  
    identicon
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 24th, 2011 @ 7:29pm

    Re: You're right Masnick. The label should go back to suing individual infringers at $150,000 a pop

    How well did that work out, then?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    A. Coward, Sep 24th, 2011 @ 9:19pm

    Re: Re: Sneaky!

    My address hasn't changed for 7 years.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Sep 25th, 2011 @ 8:28am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "It is illegal"

    That depends ....

    What method is used in the scrapping of IP Addrs?
    I read that some methods used simply grab the IP Addrs of those connecting to the swarm and do not in any way verify actual infringement. As everyone is aware, and some ignore, there is content made available via P2P for which one does not need permission to copy.

     

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  78.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Sep 25th, 2011 @ 8:31am

    Re:

    "It is actually a good business model if the letters are written properly"

    You mean that poor spelling and grammar would be a tip off that it was a scam?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 25th, 2011 @ 12:09pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You seem to be equating suspicion with guilt.
    You seem to be equating poor evidence collecting practices based on IP and secret protocols to be evidence enough to call anyone a thief.

    Hard evidence could be a photo of the guy sitting at the keyboard you know like the guys that get photos from the thieves that stole their laptops.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 25th, 2011 @ 12:15pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shakedown or Indemnification?

    When you start sending threatening others without care if the evidence is good or not, people who did nothing wrong is what you going to get in that net you cast.

    Nobody knows how the data is collected, nobody knows if the data is good except for the lawyers in Germany who sued one such collection agency and won their fraud case against that company that did not tell them the data was flawed and it is the same people who collects the data for most copyright trolls.

    So how again is that not relevant.

    It is ok now to extort money from innocent people?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 25th, 2011 @ 12:32pm

    Re: $10 is not a problem

    Still pricier than the Pirate Bay though.

    I will stick with the Pirate thingy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    Boomhouser, Sep 26th, 2011 @ 4:33am

    Make up in volume? What a novell idea!

    So if they realize volume sales at a lower price works for trolling, why not music purchases? Lower the price of movies and music and the volume of sales skyrockets, piracy drops. Too easy?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    icon
    DinDaddy (profile), Sep 26th, 2011 @ 4:37pm

    Re: Re:

    I didn't mean to download, it was the ehat of the moment.

    Oh, not that Asia?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    identicon
    Gravity Man, Dec 19th, 2013 @ 12:45pm

    What if You Got a Bill from Walgreens for Stealing Antiperspirant?

    So, if you (by the logic of this thread here and the "music is free" folks) now feel it's totally ok to take home that can of antiperspirant from Walgreens, then a camera that watched you do it creates an incident that sends you the bill and you could just pay it instead of going to jail how would that play out for you?

    Everyone seems to think that it's totally okay to steal. Musicians, especially independent ones put their lives and tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars into producing/recording/mastering/distributing the music that folks seem to think should just be taken off that shelf, just like the antiperspirant. Hmmm... Some twisted values here. All paid for by google ads that don't send a penny to the artists.

    Merry Christmas

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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