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Copyright

by Mike Masnick

Thu, Jun 17th 2010 1:07pm


Filed Under:
france, hadopi, three strikes



French Data Protection Agency Says Three Strikes Is Allowed

from the and-we're-off... dept

France's "three strikes" Hadopi program was originally supposed to go into effect in January (technically, it did...), but concerns about how this conflicted with European and French data privacy laws resulted in holding off on actually enforcing the law. However, it looks like the French data protection agency has reviewed the law and is now allowing three strikes enforcement to proceed. Apparently, now Hadopi is going to start sending out notices by the end of the month. We had already noted that since the law went into effect (even if enforcement hadn't started), file sharing had increased in France (much of it through channels not covered by Hadopi), so we'll see what happens now that enforcement begins. And, we're still wondering will anyone actually buy more music?
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  • icon
    Hephaestus (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:15pm

    It depends

    "And, we're still wondering will anyone actually buy more music?"

    This is already a historical event if you look at sweden. If there is an increase in music and movie advertising at the same time or before this is actually implemented then yes for a short period people will buy more content. If there is no increase in advertising then there will be no increase.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Hephaestus (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:23pm

      Re: It depends

      submitted instead of previewed ...

      From a purely financial perspective, the amount they need to spend on advertising, to sell the same amount of product, has been increasing. I havent looked at the advertising cost -vs- profit curve for music recently but it wouldnt surprise me if it cost more to advertise than they will make back in the profit off of sales.

      [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:29pm

        Re: Re: It depends

        And the question remains...

        Is this increase due to the law enforcement, or because of the increase in advertising?

        Because...you know, that's what advertising is for. Increasing customers.

        [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Hephaestus (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:43pm

          Re: Re: Re: It depends

          "Because...you know, that's what advertising is for. Increasing customers."

          What I was pointing out was that, it is getting to or has passed the point where the record labels can make money by advertising. It costs more to advertise than they make back. That is country dependant, spain, and south korea, china, have already passed the point, most others are going to be there in a staggered pattern over the next couple years.

          [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:57pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: It depends

            Well, that's because record labels think "advertising" means TV commercials and billboards.

            No matter who you are, you can always benefit from more (effective) exposure. It's up to the record labels to actual use the options that are cost efficient.

            [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Jay (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:32pm

    So here's a question:

    When will the big government listen to the economists that tell them about bad ideas?

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 8:20pm

      Re:

      Oh, oh, I know this one.

      It's when those economists start giving bigger kickbacks than corporate lobbyists.

      Did I get it right?

      [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Kurata, 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:49pm

    According to what i remember, the system works as follow :

    First, a mail is sent to you as a warning
    Second, a real mail is sent
    Last, you're summoned for trial.

    However, here's the trick : there is a database system, lasting 6 months. After 6 months, the database is cleared. Also, it's set up to find at most 600 000 different persons within those 6 months.
    If I'm not wrong, there are about 48M internet users. In other words, slim chance of being warned thrice.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:58pm

    Selective Enforcement

    It sounds like the French are learning how to use good old "selective enforcement". In this case, it looks like the agency responsible for enforcing the data protection laws has decided not to do so. I'm sure they decided that it "just didn't make sense" to enforce the laws as written. I seem to remember Mike being a supporter of selective law enforcement, too. Well, here you go.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    IRSMARTR, 17 Jun 2010 @ 2:07pm

    everyone should turn off there net for a few months

    in protest ...turn off the net. THEN when they lose billions in taxes there economy can be even better


    P.S. WHAT ever you paid to ISP DO NOT SPEND IT ANYWHERE
    just save it. THATS HOW YOU GET EVEN WITH MORONS IN GOVT.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 2:49pm

    "we're still wondering will anyone actually buy more music?" - i dont think that is the question. it isnt about selling anything. it is about getting online users to respect the same laws they would have to respect in the real world. you couldnt walk into a music store and randomly rip cds onto your laptop in the middle of the store, why should you be allowed to do that online?

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Niall (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 3:18pm

      Re:

      Wow, points for NOT talking about physically stealing a disc!.

      Still, if you could manage it quickly and relatively anonymously, then you might find a few people doing it. Depends how likely you are to be caught, and how much effort it is.

      The model breaks down in that you can only be physically present in one shop, but can download from many sources at once

      [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        btrussell (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 3:57pm

        Re: Re:

        "The model breaks down in that you can only be physically present in one shop, but can download from many sources at once"

        But you can still only download at XMb/s, whether it be one file or one hundred.

        [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 4:05pm

        Re: Re:

        i am trying to come up with a way to better explain the situation. if you sat ripping stuff in the middle of the store, they would likely throw you out, and potentially call the police (as there is a sort of theft going on). the internet basically removes the shop keeper and every other watching eye, and allows you to rip with impunity. all three strikes laws attempt to do is put a sort of balance back into the situation, making people understand that their actions arent any more acceptable online than they would be in the middle of a busy store.

        [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Another User, 17 Jun 2010 @ 4:14pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Well with the way sharing works it is more like someone bought it then is offering a ripped version of it. So a better example would be you go to the store and bought CD/DVD then go home make copies of it and offer it free to who ever stops by. Still wrong but I think that is closer to what happens to most files.

          [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 4:50pm

      Re:

      And, if upon being accused (not proven to be) doing that 3 times you were banned from all retail stores forever, you might have a point.

      Of course, as usual, you don't.

      [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2010 @ 7:21pm

      Re:

      Douchy Mac Strawman strikes again.

      [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    abc gum, 17 Jun 2010 @ 6:06pm

    This is bad news for all those internet connected printers. I imagine that they will getting a bunch of letters - woohoo !

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178128/HP_partners_with_Yahoo_for_targeted_ads

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mr. Oizo, 18 Jun 2010 @ 1:53am

    How can you defend yourself ?

    Aside from having a clear defense if the IP was that of a printer, it is somewhat problematic that you cannot defend yourself against a random attack. Suppose they just take 600'000 random internet IPs and send a notice without even having any proof. How can you defend against that ?

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Lakanal, 1 Jul 2010 @ 12:48pm

    Actually the Rennes University report showed that file-sharing as such went down after HADOPI, even though the law had not come into full force. Similarly in Sweden the IPRED law and conviction of the Piratebay thieves coincided with a massive fall in infringement. Then legitimate sales took off. Freetards and the ISPs will continue to call black white, however.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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