Russian Collecting Society Sues Promoters For Not Paying Up To Let Beyonce Sing Beyonce Songs

from the copyright-law-madness dept

Last year we wrote about a situation in Russia where the promoters of a Deep Purple concert were fined because they failed to secure a license to let Deep Purple perform Deep Purple music. Seriously. It seems that the same situation is playing out again with a Beyonce concert. The Russian collecting society RAO is suing the company it believes was the promoter of a Beyonce concert for not paying up for the right to perform Beyonce music. Yes, by any standard of common sense this is ridiculous. A collection society is supposed to collect for the sake of helping an artist. But how is it possibly helpful to the artist to force promoters to pay for that artist to sing their own songs. It directly harms an artist by making it more expensive for anyone to actually promote a show -- and by funneling money away from musicians.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 12:50pm

    As silly as this may seem, do not overlook that contracts may be in place that govern this situation.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    identicon
    NAMELESS.ONE, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 12:51pm

    they taking tips form the CRIA

    ya know that other collection agency in canada that ahsnt paid 300000 artists since 1980

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    icon
    Alan Gerow (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 12:53pm

    How else is Beyonce going to get paid unless they charge Beyonce to play Beyonce's music?

    Don't you see?

    Beyonce pays to play Beyonce music to RAO
    RAO collects money to distributes it to Beyonce
    RAO can't "find" Beyonce
    RAO keeps Beyonce's money

    Beyonce wouldn't be able to make money making music any other way¡

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    icon
    Alan Gerow (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 12:56pm

    Re:

    Yeah, but it demonstrates how disingenuous the collection agency arguments are.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    icon
    Colin (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 12:57pm

    I wonder who the employees of this collections society are? Aren't most collections societies non profit - and they pay out whatever is left after expenses (salaries, etc)?

    Probably friends/family of senior government officials.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    identicon
    Bas Grasmayer, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 12:58pm

    Heard about the same thing happening in Bulgaria before. Way too much bureaucracy in such organisation, especially in countries which have 'not-so-well-developed' institutions.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    icon
    Alan Gerow (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:02pm

    Re:

    I'm not sure of their organizational status, but they generally get to keep the money they can't distribute. Thus, it's in their best interest to collect from everybody they can, and then have a hard time finding people to pay out to. After a certain amount of time, the money that's in "limbo" becomes theirs.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    icon
    Robert Ring (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:06pm

    Re:

    I think his point is that, regardless of what contracts may be in place, this situation is ridiculous. i.e. The contracts are a problem.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:07pm

    Its simple, she might sing a song that is not hers, thus she has to pay the agency to ensure the money is split correctly.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:16pm

    "Its simple, she might sing a song that is not hers, thus she has to pay the agency to ensure the money is split correctly."

    Smells like TAM

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:17pm

    Simple solution just leave ASCAP

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    icon
    Pickle Monger (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:30pm

    Russians, eh?

    Amazing enough, this is by far not the most ridiculous thing about how things work in Russia. Just saying...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    icon
    Nastybutler77 (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:31pm

    There's a word for this

    It's called extortion.

    @ Hephaestus
    I don't think leaving ASCAP wouldn't solve their problem with RAO.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:33pm

    Re:

    They send that money to ASCAP. Also, Beyonce is not the only writer on all of her songs.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:33pm

    Re:

    Old socks. Or TAM.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:37pm

    Re: There's a word for this

    Nor would it help a similar issue with ASCAP. Who have no idea who(which artists) they represent, so they just assume they represent everyone, and collect at will.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    icon
    Ima Fish (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 1:48pm

    "But how is it possibly helpful to the artist to force promoters to pay for that artist to sing their own songs."

    The band that toured in Russia under the name Deep Purple had only one original member and he was not one of the band's song writers.

    Beyonce does not write her own material.

    So both "artists" are not performing their own songs. They're performing someone else's song. And that's the purpose of a collection society.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    Ryan, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 2:08pm

    Re:

    The other band members aren't playing the song under names other than Deep Purple. Beyonce's songwriters sell the song to be played by Beyonce; they don't play it themselves. So what you have is a situation where the exact scenario envisioned by the actors in creating the song requires payment from those same actors in order to receive a license to actually play it.

    The point is that this is not helpful to any of the artists(songwriters included), and in no way can a collection bureaucracy be remotely as efficient in transferring wealth from consumers to producers. It's ridiculous anybody is even legally entitled to profits they didn't arrange; if you're a songwriter, you can get a flat rate or you can negotiate a private contract with the person you're selling the lyrics to (prior to selling or creating them)for a percentage of certain revenue streams, like the rest of the world works.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    identicon
    Tester, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 2:08pm

    Test

    Test

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 2:31pm

    Common Sense

    Yes, by any standard of common sense this is ridiculous.

    By any standard of common sense copyright and patents in general are ridiculous. So what else isn't new?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    icon
    Blatant Coward (profile), Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 2:34pm

    RE: Colin, Lord love ya man...

    "Aren't most collections societies non profit"

    BWAHAHAAAHAAAAhaaahahahahaaaahaaaaa*gasp* WAHAHAAAHAAAAhaaahahaha woh woh woh woooohooooo *pant pant*

    If they can't *find* the legal owner they get to keep the money, no one is going to just hand out contract details willy nilly to any Vladimir Schmidtiskovich off the street so it's doubtful they could get info even if they bother to ask. Also the monies collected until the release date that lets the agency keep the cash also gets to collect interest, that they also get to keep.

    If you think anyone on the 'management' side does anything for free, you really have a rough patch ahead.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    identicon
    NAMELESS.ONE, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 3:19pm

    this is so simple

    dont goto russia then
    dim wit muscians

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    someone who always says that "I Know All", Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 4:15pm

    Re:

    "Beyonce wouldn't be able to make money making music any other way¡"

    Are you fucking kidding me? There are *tons* of other ways to make money from music. Are you dense?

    Dude, I know all, and I can tell you this is a stupid comment. It's as if you are being sarcastic or something. Knock it off before I gas you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 5:21pm

    Here's my thoughts on ASCAP and RAO:

    ASCAP collects money to pay the artits, etc. they represent. If Beyonce is a member of ASCAP, she likely already pays dues to sing works handled by ASCAP. Most, if not all, major ASCAP performance contracts very likely encompass the entire represented body of works (just easier that way.)

    RAO, in my opinion, should be collecting funds for the artist, etc. that they represent. If Beyonce (and affiliated) did not perform anything by the people represented by RAO, then RAO is out of line for collecting any funds for Beyonce's performance. However, if Beyonce did perform something represented by RAO, even if it is a song thought as "Beyonce's", then RAO is acting within reason.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    identicon
    Yargh, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 6:40pm

    In soviet russia...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    identicon
    someone who actually knows nothing about what he's, Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 6:40pm

    Re: Re:

    Are you being sarcastic ?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    identicon
    someone who always says that "I Know All", Feb 23rd, 2010 @ 11:05pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Are you?

    I Know All. Don't make me put my Jackboot up your ass.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    Tamara, Feb 24th, 2010 @ 1:06am

    Not all singers wrote the songs that they perform. The performer is not always the copywrite holder. The copyright usually stays with the writer.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 24th, 2010 @ 5:47am

    Re:

    Considering this is NeoSoviet Russia we're talking about, its most likely one of the Politboro's pet companies.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    identicon
    fnberger, Feb 24th, 2010 @ 6:45am

    what are you trying to tell us, mike?

    No, really, Mike, whats your point here? Since you are working hard to expose legal abuse on copyright and else,i need to ask you: What's your point? Royalty collection societies all over the planet are acting all the same. Yes, even in the US. It's not about Russia, it's about copyright turned into robbery (besides writers and composers need to get paid). May i ask you to reconsider this article?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    VERONIKA SKUSENAITE, Dec 7th, 2010 @ 11:59am

    NOEL REDDING JIMI HENDRIX NEW DVD

    УБИЛИ-ЛИ ДЖИМИ ХЕНДРИКСА? МАЛОВЕРОЯТНО СКАЗАЛ НОЕЛ РЕДИНГ


    Имя Джими Хендрикса вызывает вооброжение о самых красочных и самых диких моментaх произведённых шестидесятыми годами. Хендрикс прибыл, он взял и штормом завоевал музыкальный мир, пронзился в твою голову и ушёл в небо на большой концерт - всё за 27 лет.



    Опыт Джими Хендрикса, оставил тебя без сомнения что это был именно - опыт.

    Сойдясь с разных сторон Атлантики тройка музыкантов нашли общий язык, славу и на одну треть группы не очень много удачи.



    Для Ноель Реддинга-бас гитариста в группе опыт был незабываемым. Спустя 40 лет со смерти Хендрикса,o нём и о группе было выпущено много документальных фильмов.

    Огляды 74;аясь назад в шестидесятые годы у вас появляется ошущение когбуд-то вы находитесь на другой планете. Любая история связаная с тем периодом заваёвана музыкой и культурой. Опыт Джими Хендрикса, сыграл свою роль.



    Своевременное появление DVD, производчиком которого является MNV Disc International, содержит ещё никогда невиденное интервью с Ноель Реддинг записанное в его доме в Ирландии в 1988г.


    Это делает просмотр увлекательным. Все эти годы видя фильмы о них из концертов и фотоснимков Хендрикса, Рединга и Миттчеля, вы ощутите себя будто вы сидите в гостинной не с легендой а с обычным парнем который расказывает о своих первых днях в группе. Не рок звезды здесь, не претенциозных названий, наоборот обыкновенный разговор. Слушая его вы гадаете как они достигли вверха.



    Я спросил Уилла Скалли продюсера как всё это произошло Я знаком с Ноелем и в течение многих лет мы были друзьями, я его всегда находил очень простым и прямым парнем. Мы часто беседовали о производсте интервью, он хотел говорить про деньги, наркотики и смерть Хендрикса и многое другое даже говорили о возможности что Хендрикса убили. Он себя хорошо чувствовал в тот день и хотел записать это процветание.



    К сожалению Ноель Рединг умер ещё в 2003 году возрасте 57 лет





    Для тех кто заинтерисован в Хендриксе, Реддинге и истории рок музыки шестидесятых годов этот редкий визуально документальный фильм не должен быть упущен.




    Перевод Вероники Скусенайте

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    VERONIKA SKUSENAITE, Dec 7th, 2010 @ 12:02pm

    NOEL REDDING JIMI HENDRIX NEW DVD

    УБИЛИ-ЛИ ДЖИМИ ХЕНДРИКСА? МАЛОВЕРОЯТНО СКАЗАЛ НОЕЛ РЕДИНГ


    Имя Джими Хендрикса вызывает вооброжение о самых красочных и самых диких моментaх произведённых шестидесятыми годами. Хендрикс прибыл, он взял и штормом завоевал музыкальный мир, пронзился в твою голову и ушёл в небо на большой концерт - всё за 27 лет.



    Опыт Джими Хендрикса, оставил тебя без сомнения что это был именно - опыт.

    Сойдясь с разных сторон Атлантики тройка музыкантов нашли общий язык, славу и на одну треть группы не очень много удачи.



    Для Ноель Реддинга-бас гитариста в группе опыт был незабываемым. Спустя 40 лет со смерти Хендрикса,o нём и о группе было выпущено много документальных фильмов.

    Огляды 74;аясь назад в шестидесятые годы у вас появляется ошущение когбуд-то вы находитесь на другой планете. Любая история связаная с тем периодом заваёвана музыкой и культурой. Опыт Джими Хендрикса, сыграл свою роль.



    Своевременное появление DVD, производчиком которого является MNV Disc International, содержит ещё никогда невиденное интервью с Ноель Реддинг записанное в его доме в Ирландии в 1988г.


    Это делает просмотр увлекательным. Все эти годы видя фильмы о них из концертов и фотоснимков Хендрикса, Рединга и Миттчеля, вы ощутите себя будто вы сидите в гостинной не с легендой а с обычным парнем который расказывает о своих первых днях в группе. Не рок звезды здесь, не претенциозных названий, наоборот обыкновенный разговор. Слушая его вы гадаете как они достигли вверха.



    Я спросил Уилла Скалли продюсера как всё это произошло Я знаком с Ноелем и в течение многих лет мы были друзьями, я его всегда находил очень простым и прямым парнем. Мы часто беседовали о производсте интервью, он хотел говорить про деньги, наркотики и смерть Хендрикса и многое другое даже говорили о возможности что Хендрикса убили. Он себя хорошо чувствовал в тот день и хотел записать это процветание.



    К сожалению Ноель Рединг умер ещё в 2003 году возрасте 57 лет





    Для тех кто заинтерисован в Хендриксе, Реддинге и истории рок музыки шестидесятых годов этот редкий визуально документальный фильм не должен быть упущен.




    Перевод Вероники Скусенайте

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    VERONIKA SKUSENAITE, Dec 7th, 2010 @ 12:03pm

    NOEL REDDING JIMI HENDRIX NEW DVD

    - ? λ Å


    a . , , - 27 .



    , - .

    , .



    - . 40 ,o .

    - . . , .



    DVD, MNV Disc International, 1988.


    . , , . , , . .



    , . , , . .



    2003 57





    , .




     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    identicon
    Ben Morganfield, Dec 16th, 2010 @ 4:01am

    NOEL REDDING EXPERIENCE -JIMI HENDRIX DVD REVIEW

    Its hard to believe that Hendrix died 40years ago, whats even more unbelievable is we weird folk from the sixties have now metamorphosed into out own grandfathers, actually lived

    through it. We witnessed the three strange looking men collectively known as Jimi Hendrix Experience redefine rock music and contributed to the sixties soundtrack.



    So much has been written about Jimi Hendrix and this guitar colossus without doubt overshadowed the other two members of the group; drummer Mitch Mitchell and bassist Noel Redding. If you have spent years living in a cave then you are excused from not knowing that the three of them are now playing at the great gig in the sky.



    Noel Redding wrote an interesting book some years ago, outlining his time with the group, as the fame increased, so didother pressures. The money that these three young musicians accumulated must have made them rich beyond their wildest dreams. The wild man of pop with his two acolytes, the fashion, and the hair made them instantly recognizable around the globe. The book went some way to tell us the way it was.



    Out now on Dvd and long overdue is an interview with Noel Redding. For many years a rumor has been around that this interview was inexistence. If like me you like to plough though the websites dealing with guitars and musicians, you would have read that this interview has finally been released.



    So why is this Dvd so important? Well for a start it was recorded in 1988 and to my way of thinking, in terms of rockmusic history, it has historical and intrinsic value. The quality of the interview has an 80s feel about it and that makes it even more authentic, No digital remastering or HD quality, just a straight forward interview. Recorded at his home in Ireland, Redding opens up on a verity of subjects. The death of Hendrix, the drugs and parties, the dynamics of the band and money - not the money he made but the money he and Mitchell didnt make. Bitter about the lack of payment, not looking or sounding shocked at the suggestion that Hendrix could have been murdered.



    I have seen some very short interviews with Noel Redding on You tube only lasting a few minutes, this interview runs for forty minutes and without doubt a lot can be said within that amount of time. I must add that I never met him, however, he comes across very honest and pleased to do this interview.





    I read in the Press Release that the Producer Will Scally, had been a friend of Noel for many years, and also conducted the interview. This friendship shows through, its just like two old mates talking about the good ol days. The exception being that one is Noel Redding and his good ol days was playing bass with Jimi Hendrix or perhaps not.



    The Redding Experience is now available now on MNV Discs International (DN/MNV1) distributed via Qleap.



    Ben Morganfield

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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