Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
file sharing, plea bargain, spain

Companies:
infopsp



Spanish File Sharing Admin Sent To Jail... Despite Not Breaking The Law

from the not-so-good dept

I missed this story last week, but it's an important one to cover. The entertainment industry has been bragging about its various "wins," but when you look closely at them, many of them are questionable. For example, there were some news stories recently about how the operator of a file sharing site called InfoPSP in Spain was sentenced to 6 months in jail. However, TorrentFreak looked more closely at the case, and realized that the guy in question didn't actually commit a crime at all and was simply pressured into a plea bargain. That's because Spanish courts have made clear that it's not illegal to just link to infringing content. However, after recognizing the costs to fight this in court, he simply agreed to the plea bargain deal:
So a deal was done. Kuve would admit to being a criminal and accept the court's decision with the assurance that he wouldn't be chased through the civil courts by the plaintiffs. Kuve and his lawyer decided that it would make sense, financially at least.

"I am a student and therefore do not have the financial resources needed to hire a defense expert that could ensure results in the trial. Besides, continuing with the trial meant that the civil courts could convict me and I would be forced to pay financial compensation which I couldn't cope with," said Kuve.

"I would have loved to defend my interests to the end and it is for this that I wish all the people in my situation who can afford to stay and fight for something that affects us all, the best of luck."
It's quite troubling that the entertainment industry was able to send someone to jail, despite him not committing a crime, and can then use that "example" to try to show people how they, too, can go to jail. For an industry that keeps trying to take the moral high ground, you have to wonder how it can claim it's moral to send someone to jail despite not having broken the law?

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 22 Apr 2009 @ 10:45pm

    I really wish I could say that I was the least bit surprised, but what do you expect from a country that allows torture? the actions that this country does in my name are making me sick.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Jon, 23 Apr 2009 @ 12:10am

      Re:

      No one is making you stay. And I can see that you never once served in the military. Stick to the topic and stay away from things you know nothing about which is politics.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 12:21am

        Re: Re:

        This is the last I'll say about this but I love how people are so quick to ask the true patriots who are willing to stand up to the country they love and speak out against an evil act to leave the country.


        I AM an American, a true Patriot, and as such, I have the power and guts to call out the power mad assholes, up to and including President Bush, and say in a clear and defiant voice: "You are all a bunch of thugs who dragged the flag and name of my country through the ground. You destroyed my rights, you tortured people in my name. I am not going to stand by and allow you to have a free pass! This ends here. I want my rights back for me and my fellow countrymen. It is time someone pays a price for what they have done."

        If anyone else else wants to help speak out against the torture then please sign the petition that the ACLU is distributing so that justice is served: http://www.aclu.org/investigatetorture

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 1:19am

          Re: Re: Re:

          the ACLU is the problem. Most of what they do degrades our society as a whole.

          As far as the torture issue of detainees... don't be so quick to judge... until they release the intel we gathered from the questionable techniques and show that there was nothing gained, I consider nothing lost.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Mechwarrior, 23 Apr 2009 @ 6:01am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            So, in essence, when someone says life is priceless, what they really mean is MY life is priceless.

            You heard it folks. Some people are worth more than others, and so torture can be used on the ones we consider to be less human than us.

            Well , Im not surprised. The Chinese and the Russians do the same thing. I guess for USA to stay competitive , we have to do the same as well.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              BTR1701, 23 Apr 2009 @ 8:11am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              > You heard it folks. Some people are worth
              > more than others

              Yes, some people *are* worth more than others. I know it probably shocks your enlightened leftist conscience to hear someone say it, but there it is.

              The animals who fly planes into buildings, blow up buses full of children, and saw the heads off people with dull knives merely because they were born in a different part of the world aren't worth jack shit. They certainly aren't worth as much as decent civilized people of the world.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Azrael, 23 Apr 2009 @ 9:28am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Like the decent civilized people from the american army? The same ones guilty of rapes, mass-murders of civilians, women and kids, who pillaged and destroyed countless works of art just because they were there, those decent civilized people ?
                No , for me they are just some demented idiots spawned by syphilitic whores , and who deserve to be killed.
                BTW you reap what you sown

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2009 @ 12:32am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Yes, some people *are* worth more than others. blah blah blah...

                With that kind of thinking, I'd say you're no better than they are. I bet a little water boarding would do you a world of good.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            nasch, 23 Apr 2009 @ 8:03am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            the ACLU is the problem. Most of what they do degrades our society as a whole.

            Defending civil liberties (you know it's the American Civil Liberties Union, right?)... protecting the Constitution... standing up for people getting trampled by their government... that degrades our society? How?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              CastorTroy-Libertarian, 23 Apr 2009 @ 9:27am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              And when did they start all of that? Everything they ever do is in one thing THIER SELF INTEREST and the FAR Left...The ACLU hasnt stood for the Constitution or the rights of the people with out a big payoff or headlines in so long they are a joke.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2009 @ 12:43am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                And when did they start all of that? Everything they ever do is in one thing THIER SELF INTEREST and the FAR Left...

                Yah, civil liberties are FAR left and a joke, huh? The Constitution is not something from which you pick and choose the pieces you like to selectively apply when you want.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Yosi, 23 Apr 2009 @ 1:33am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Most of this "torture" stories are pathetic. We're not talking about inquisition-type torture. Just few questionable fellas from Afghanistan got some beatings.
          Note, that all subjects to this "torture" are alive AND still have all hands/legs/ears/etc.

          Next time, before you embarrass yourself, come to Prague, and visit "Torture Museum". THAT is torture. What CIA did is ugly interrogation.
          Make no mistake, they will do it AGAIN. Just because there's no other ways to convince Afghan guys to collaborate.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            nasch, 23 Apr 2009 @ 8:06am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            So it's OK, because:

            1) These people are "questionable", aka we suspect they may be guilty of something, or have some information we want.
            2) We didn't actually kill or dismember them
            3) Other people in history have done more despicable things
            4) We couldn't figure out how else to get our way

            I hope people like you are no longer in charge.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              CastorTroy-Libertarian, 23 Apr 2009 @ 9:31am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              They are, just speak better... and work to make it so when they move to do that to Americans you cant fight back any longer, then there will be no americans left.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Greg, 23 Apr 2009 @ 4:57am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Bush isn't president anymore, you dumbshit. Power mad assholes are the liberal demo(c)rats like the Clintons, Obmama and Ted Kennedy. They're the ones eroding your rights, but you're too damn blind to see it. A little torture (the ones allegedly BEING tortured are known as "terrorists," but you seem to have forgotten that) is fine with me if it keeps us safe from their plots to blow us the hell up.

          You link to the ACLU, but no matter what you think, the ACLU wants to take rights away from certain Americans if they don't have the same leftist agenda that that ACLU has, so the ACLU can go screw itself, too.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          lll, 23 Apr 2009 @ 5:15am

          Re: Re: Re:

          The Bush administration kept us safe from 9-12-01 to the present. Think about that. They tortured terrorists to keep us safe. So you can have your little whine. What rights did you lose exactly?

          You cry about the erosion of civil liberties while men sit in caves in pickastan and plot your death.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:26am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            we signed the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment which defines torture as

            "Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."

            it explicitly states that there are NO exceptions whatsoever to using torture, even saying outright that

            "This includes any threat of terrorist acts or violent crimes as well as armed conflict, international or non-international. The committee is deeply concerned at and rejects absolutely any efforts by states to justify torture and ill-treatment as a means to protect public safety or avert emergencies in these and all other situations."

            That pretty clearly says there are no exceptions to the law we signed, we even have two members on the committee against torture.

            what we are talking about is clearly against the law, no questions asked.

            So why do you think we shouldn't investigate, and if necessary prosecute, everyone involved? What makes us any better than those we profess to fight at that point? What does it say about the american people if we don't step up and make sure justice is carried out? These people potentially broke the law, and we need to investigate it.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              RevWillie56, 23 Apr 2009 @ 10:40pm

              Convention against Torture

              Iraq never signed. Iran has never signed.
              I call into question "clearly" against the law; since Iraq and Iran have articles of their Constitutions that indicate torture as an appropriate response to gain information or gain a confession where appropriate. Cuba didn't ratify CAT until 1995. iraq's President was elected by Iraq's people, in which CAT defines we can not send people back to a country that will torture the returnees. The Terrorists are detained not by the US, but by the Articles of CAT, they can not leave Cuba for fear of them being tortured and hanged like Saddam.
              CATCH 22.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:04pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Since when did sleep depriving someone become severe pain. To my understanding water boring was done to one guy 118 times. Hmm if it was severe then it would have killed him.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 8:11pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            lll- i'm not sure by what skill the bush administration kept us safe? was it their great diplomacy or amazingly wise decisions, no. it was the sacrifices of thousands of my fellow servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq that did. even that is highly questionable if it was necessary(Iraq). but as far as torture is concerned, it is a necessary evil(as long as there is no life altering harm).

            but as far as what this post is about, this will make more and more people bitter about the music industry and less likely to support it. i don't see how this type of tactics can benefit them.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2009 @ 12:47am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            The Bush administration kept us safe from 9-12-01 to the present. Think about that.

            The Bush administration was the one that didn't keep us safe on 9-12-01. Think about that.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          TSO, 23 Apr 2009 @ 12:31pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          > up to and including President Bush

          Ummm... this might be the revelation for you, but Bush hasn't been a President for, what, 6 months already :)

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 3:04pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            he was in power when the acts of torture were carried out.

            if it makes any different, I fully support them examining Obama's role in any torture that may have occurred.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Michael Whitetail, 23 Apr 2009 @ 1:17am

        Re: Re:

        Why is his opinion worth less than yours, or merits him a one-way ticket out of the country?

        If you really were in the military, than you would know that your job was to defend him, me, your family, and all of the other people in the country from enemies BOTH foriegn and domestic.

        If you claim to be a true patriot of a Democratic country, than you must know that to ensure your right to speak out about things *you* dont like, you have to support the rights of others to speak out, even if you dont the opinions they are expressing.

        Anything else makes you a hypocrit of the highest order.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:00pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          So your saying that people afraid to serve in the military should have the right to protest or speak ill of the things that the military and its departments do. Fuck that. What gives them the right to that speech. This would not be a democratic country if not for the people out there putting there lives on the line for this pot smoking tree hugging person. If it was not for the people that had balls enough to defend this country we would have a queen.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Michael Whitetail, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:53pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            If you have to ask this question, then you are unworthy of the legacy our found fathers gave to you and all the rest of our citizens.

            The right of peopel to voice their opinions is enshrined in the Constitutional Framework of Free Speech. And you, who swore to uphold that very same constitution, would begrudge a fellow citizen that right just because they didnt have the same job as you?

            You my friend, are the reason this country is falling apart. You are the cancer that is eating the living soul of this once great nation. You are to blame because despite your oaths to protect, you spit on your fellow citizens for the crime of thinking differently than you.

            Only dictitorial regimes actually criminalize such speach, but thats exactly what you are preaching: my way or the highway.

            You have betrayed your oaths, your constition, and your country. Don't you feel the shame?

            FC3 Zepp, U.S.S. Wisconsin BB64 (retired 86-95)

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Tgeigs, 24 Apr 2009 @ 10:27am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Okay, I'm a former serviceman. Do you have any idea how stupid it is to say "I fought for Democracy, so my opinion means more than yours"? You can't claim to have fought for Democracy and then not allow it in practice. Tard.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2009 @ 12:54am

          Re: Re: Re:

          If you really were in the military, than you would know that your job was to defend him, me, your family, and all of the other people in the country from enemies BOTH foriegn and domestic.
          Nah, that's just window dressing. His real job was to use force to enforce US Govt policy. And in return he gets certain lifelong benefits and preferential treatments. Not a bad deal really.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        MtotoWaPwani, 23 Apr 2009 @ 3:30am

        Re: Re:

        True.............

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        R. Miles, 23 Apr 2009 @ 6:06am

        Re: Re:

        And I can see that you never once served in the military.
        Then allow me to comment. I served in the U.S. Navy from 1989-1991, spending most of my time aboard the U.S.S Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71). Participant of Operation Desert Storm.

        Stick to the topic and stay away from things you know nothing about which is politics.
        The AC has some merit. As an American, and one who has defended this nation, I find it sick and appalling our businesses are taking their draconian views and forcing embargoes or other blackmail options to impose "copyright" protection.

        Usually at the expense of innocent people.

        Don't you dare sit there and tell me I shouldn't feel this way, or to dismiss it.

        Whether its putting 4 innocent people away for "copyright infringement" or causing tensions to allow people to fly planes into our buildings, there's no dispute the actions of this country are doing more harm than good.

        Then, to see this news come out, really makes me wonder about the "freedom" of this country.

        Or, rather, the "protection of profits".

        It's quite clear this young man had no choice but to agree to his "punishment."

        If this makes you proud to be an American, you make me sick.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Tgeigs, 23 Apr 2009 @ 7:09am

          Re: Re: Re:

          As another member of the Navy, and one that spent time fighting the "terrorists", I'm actually MORE angry at what the wealthy plutocrats back home are pulling in our country and abroad.

          And btw, for all the people who say "A little torture is okay, just keep people from blowing us up" and "America is fighting for liberty" and "the intel is worth the torture"....FUCK YOU!

          It's that dickhead mentality that had me fighting in the sand, and it's that callous attitude for human life that put ME and my fellow soldiers in harms way. Until you've seen some of the bullshit our country pulls across the world, you simply have no idea what you're talking about. You'd be fucking SHOCKED at how sanitized our news reports are.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:31am

          Re: Re: Re:

          btw R. Miles, I have to say I like you. I don't agree with many of your posts or the tone that most of your posts have, but you have reasons for everything you say and I can't think of a single time when you trampled on other people.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 21 May 2009 @ 3:21pm

        Re: Re:

        Quick! Everyone who hates injustice, leave the country now!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 5:03am

      Re:

      So, you're Spanish? You live in Spain? Because this story is NOT IN THE US! Read the damned story before you go off. >.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous, 23 Apr 2009 @ 5:45am

      Re:

      This story was about Spain, you tard.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      BTR1701, 23 Apr 2009 @ 8:07am

      Re: Torture

      > I really wish I could say that I was the
      > least bit surprised, but what do you expect
      > from a country that allows torture? the
      > actions that this country does in my name
      > are making me sick.

      Which country are you talking about, genius? Because this file-sharing case happened in Spain, not the USA. And Spain doesn't allow torture. They're one of those holier-than-thou enlightened European countries that condemn the USA for everything.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Jan, 23 Apr 2009 @ 12:12am

    justice

    If fair trial is so expensive that some people cannot afford it... well there is something seriously wrong with the system. Justice should be for everybody - but this is not about justice anymore, this is just buying verdicts, buying sentences for people you don't like. Horrifying. What kind of society is this?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    IjonTichy, 23 Apr 2009 @ 12:24am

    He won't go to jail

    In Spain if the sentence is less than a year and it is your first crime, you don't go to jail. So it makes sense for this guy to accept a six months sentence, as he won't suffer any real consecuences.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Peter, 24 Apr 2009 @ 12:34am

      Re: He won't go to jail

      No, he may not go to jail, but having a criminal conviction, especially one that carried a jail term, will ruin the rest of his life. His travel will be extremely restricited, there are numerous activities that he will be barred from doing.. To say he wont suffer real consequences is simply not true.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Mr Big Content, 23 Apr 2009 @ 12:38am

    It's A Fair Cop

    People who do things just because they happen to be legal should not be allowed to get away with it. Punish them all, I say.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Michael Whitetail, 23 Apr 2009 @ 1:14am

      Re: It's A Fair Cop

      What a crock of shit this is. You expect that because group A doesn't like an action you are taking even though it is 100% legal, that Group A should have the ability to prosecute and jail you? WTF are you smoking?

      Hypothetical: You moved into a wealthy neighborhood, but drive a shitty dented up honda instead of a BMW or Audi. Now the Neighbors are taking you to court because they belive you are runining their proerty value. They win, and you go to jail.

      How is this any different than what this article is about? Wealthy content owners prosecuting a man who by the very definition of the court has commited no crime, criminal or civil, and yet was able to force him into a conviction.... just because he is supposedly undermining the value of their content?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 23 Apr 2009 @ 5:05am

        Re: Re: It's A Fair Cop

        It was sarcasm. Need to get your detector fixed. XD

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          R. Miles, 23 Apr 2009 @ 6:07am

          Re: Re: Re: It's A Fair Cop

          It was sarcasm. Need to get your detector fixed. XD
          Um, even I took it as face value.

          Maybe a "/sarcasm" next time would help.
          :)

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            nasch, 23 Apr 2009 @ 8:11am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: It's A Fair Cop

            "People who do things just because they happen to be legal should not be allowed to get away with it. Punish them all, I say."

            How could you take that seriously? This guy is saying to punish everybody for doing things in accordance with the law. If you don't detect that as sarcasm, then do you take everything at face value?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              The infamous Joe, 23 Apr 2009 @ 10:01am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's A Fair Cop

              You should read some of the insane stuff posted here that *should* be /sarcasm, but isn't.

              "/sarcasm" never hurts.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Michael Whitetail, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:59pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's A Fair Cop

                Indeed!

                AC, if it was indeed sarcasm, then I offer my appologies for not detecting it, but for the record, it really did come off as something a far right-winger would preach about on here.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Ishan, 23 Apr 2009 @ 1:10am

    David v Goliath

    Even though the music industry may be able to scare away a few Spanish music pirates by suing a few kids - i think the Music Industry is digging itself another hole.

    The market, both Spanish and global, may see these actions against these poor little guys and think 'Hey, you big multinational corporation (Goliath), let that poor kid (David) live his life".

    All this does is encite further anger toward the Music Industry. We feel sorry for the kid and wish him all the best. And you know, we ALL love the underdogs...

    If you start to hate the Music Industry, why would you be motivated to give it money?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Jack Sombra, 23 Apr 2009 @ 2:48am

    ?

    What's with all the USA comments in an article that has nothing to do with the USA?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Defender of the just cause, 23 Apr 2009 @ 3:48am

    The pirate bay trial

    I just read on torrentfreak that apparently the judge proceeding the pirate bay case was a member of several copyrights groups, working together with ifpi and other organizations. So this might lead to a retrial in the near future.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      R. Miles, 23 Apr 2009 @ 6:10am

      Re: The pirate bay trial

      So this might lead to a retrial in the near future.
      Screw that! I would rather have an appeal win, with prejudice (if it exists in Sweden), so this never becomes an issue again.
      :)

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Sergio Carrasco, 23 Apr 2009 @ 4:09am

    P2P and crimes

    Just to clarify, there hasn't been any trial in Spain where the judge said it isn't illegal to download, only that it isn't a crime (because there isn't any direct profit motive, and that's one of the requisits in spanish criminal Law when talking about IP). That's quite an essential difference, since, at least theorically, there could always be a big fine by civil laws.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    CleverName, 23 Apr 2009 @ 5:41am

    I dont know anything about the law in Spain, but it seems strange that you can plea bargain a civil matter with criminal charges. Or maybe I misunderstood something.

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  • identicon
    Gary Sanders, 23 Apr 2009 @ 9:27am

    File Sharing Sites in the US

    There are many sites out there doing file sharing and some of it even legal. Its amazing the RIAA has been able to pick out people and use them as examples just to make their case.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous12, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:27am

    Wow you people, IMHO, (except for the Navy guys-go Navy) are pretty nuts. This whole thing started because some idiot above can't read SPAIN and filled in America.
    On the "torture" debate that ensued thereafter...

    1)It's not torture in the same way "torture" has been traditionally defined, I actually do prefer the term "harmful interrogation" or something of the sort.
    That being said, that doesn't mean it's justified. Some stress positions, sleep deprivation, etc., is fine IF (and that's a big if) it produces results.

    2) It is highly debatable as to whether water-boarding (the most controversial)is effective.Long time FBI, CIA, and military interrogators are all on the record as saying it doesn't work. Then you have political figures and Agency heads saying it's effective. If that doesn't muddy the waters enough, you have a partial release of documents, which clarifies nothing, and intentional or not, makes the move by President Obama seem politically motivated.

    3) Just because I don't agree with waterboarding doesn't put me on the side of the ACLU. Even if it did, LIKE THEM OR NOT, that doesn't make you a traitor. It means you actually can hold your own views and opinions.

    4)All Partisan bickering and hacks is sickening, pointless, and more damaging to our nation than most care to realize.

    This whole either/or black/white crap is really childish, and frankly far afield of reality. I'm no moral relativist, but that doesn't mean that all issues are binary. Get a clue you ignorant fools.

    RANT END.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2009 @ 1:05am

      Re:

      That being said, that doesn't mean it's justified. Some stress positions, sleep deprivation, etc., is fine IF (and that's a big if) it produces results.

      You left out a few, like mock executions, electric shocks (especially to the genitals), ass-rape (NYPD style with a stick, of course), etc.

      It is highly debatable as to whether water-boarding (the most controversial)is effective. Maybe not, but it sure is fun!

      Just because I don't agree with waterboarding doesn't put me on the side of the ACLU.

      You must be a terrorist then.

      All Partisan bickering and hacks is sickening, pointless, and more damaging to our nation than most care to realize.

      It's the liberals and the ACLU that are destroying our nation.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous12, 23 Apr 2009 @ 11:31am

    BTW THIS STARTED BECAUSE SOMEONE CAN'T READ:

    SPANISH File Sharing Admin Sent To Jail... Despite Not Breaking The Law

    NOT AMERICAN. SPANISH. READ FIRST, RANT LATER.
    GOT IT?

    GOOD.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Tgeigs, 23 Apr 2009 @ 1:14pm

      Re:

      Sorry, I've been spending a decent amount of time on the "bad" side of town and assumed this was Spain based on the language being spoken.

      /Sarcasm

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Lars, 23 Apr 2009 @ 2:03pm

    Spain blows

    Stay away from Spain and boycott it. I watch the shows on TV about brits moving to Spain and it looks to be a gigantic dump full of swindlers. No surprise to me. Boycott Spain, don't buy spanish wine, spanish olive oil, spanish olives. To do so would support a country that allows human rights to be trampled.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Slackr, 23 Apr 2009 @ 2:04pm

    Clearly this man is lying, he must have enough money to defend himself, afterall all those sales that have been thwarted and surely he gains 'huge' revenue from his evil file sharing site to defend himself...
    /sarcasm

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Griffon, 23 Apr 2009 @ 2:51pm

    Feh this should never happen

    It sickens me when legal costs force innocent people into these kind of bargains. There is something horrible wrong when legal expense is this huge lever that companies or government and leverage to get their way. There needs to be a lot more emphasis placed always bringing cases to a close with prejudice so that any attempts at frivolous or harassment suites carry a very heavy loaded charge and citizens can have some reasonable expectation of not having to go into bankruptcy to defend themselves from legal abuses.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous12, 23 Apr 2009 @ 4:24pm

    @Anonymous Coward: Last word denied.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    anonymous12, 24 Apr 2009 @ 8:48am

    @AC: Can you ask stupid questions? YES YOU CAN.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Bettawrekonize, 20 May 2009 @ 7:28pm

    Big CEO's can get away with selling Aids tainted blood with the approval of the FDA (Bayer), censoring data about Vioxx (Merck), supporting terrorist organizations to attain a monopoly (Chiquita), etc... Does anyone get jail time for these corporate atrocities? NO! Yet if some poor and powerless entity does anything that maybe good for society that may threaten the profit margins of rich and powerful corporations there is jail time. It's ridiculous. Decentralized search/file systems are good, I don't think they should be used for pirating anything but at the same time they take away the influence that search engines and special interest groups may have over the Internet to censor important information. I want to see criminal sanctions when CEO's of corporations act unethically. I want to see them in jail, I want to see their personal assets taken away, I want to see huge fines, they should be personally punished. Bayer should never be allowed to sell Aids tainted blood without criminal consequences and the FDA members who allowed such a thing should also be in jail. This nation has no accountability for real crimes, the only accountability that exists is for anything that threatens the profit margins of rich and powerful corporations (even if beneficial to society as a whole).

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 21 May 2009 @ 4:49pm

    bla bla bla Obama bla bla bla Socialism bla bla bla Big Government bla bla bla Get Off My Lawn.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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