Looks Like Bilski Decision Is Leading To Many Software Patent Claim Rejections

from the a-good-start dept

When the Bilski decision came out, we said that it would greatly limit software patents, but various patent system defenders (mostly lawyers) insisted that I was wrong and most software was still perfectly patentable. Basically, they said it just meant everyone had to write claims differently, and we'd have just as many software patents as before. Listening to them (there was a hilarious conference call of lawyers insisting this was nothing to worry about), it sounded like they were in serious denial, claiming the only patent this ruling would lead to being rejected was the Bilski patent -- all others would be fine. Things aren't actually turning out that way, however, with a much more aggressive rejection of software claims than those lawyers insisted would happen. This is a good sign... though now we get to wait to see if the Bilski ruling is appealed to the Supreme Court. Update: No waiting necessary... should have checked the wires before posting this, because, indeed, Bilski has been appealed. Will have more on this later...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread


  • icon
    Killer_Tofu (profile), 29 Jan 2009 @ 5:54am

    Good

    The more patents regarding anything software that are rejected, the better.
    ~Signed - A programmer who hates the idea of patents.
    They only get in the way of progress.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Evil Mike, 29 Jan 2009 @ 6:14am

      Re: Good

      Right there with ya brother.
      ~Signed - Another programmer who hates the idea of patents.
      They only get in the way of progress.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Software Developer, 29 Jan 2009 @ 7:17am

        Re: Re: Good

        agreed, software patents should get out and stay out.

        ~Signed - Yet another programmer who hates the idea of patents.
        They only get in the way of progress.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        eleete, 29 Jan 2009 @ 7:24am

        Re: Re: Good

        Amen !!
        ~Signed-Yet anotther programmer who hates the idea of patents.
        They stifle progress and innovation.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Jan 2009 @ 6:09am

    Double Coverage

    Is software unique in that it is allowed both a patent and a copyright ? It doesn't make sense allowing both.
    Can I get a patent on a story that I write ?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Hoeppner, 29 Jan 2009 @ 7:29am

    How do people justify making a patent on software if they're building it within a programming language someone else made instead of binary? :sarcasm woo:

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Andrew D. Todd, 29 Jan 2009 @ 7:41am

    Some Reasonable Extensions of Bilski, for the Consideration of the Supreme Court.

    Bilski has two "prongs." One is the "general purpose computer" prong. The other is the "tied to process or transformation" prong. Both need a bit of strengthening.

    In respect of the "general purpose computer" prong, it is reasonable to insist that even if the patent recites dedicated hardware for processing information, the patentee should have the burden of showing that his algorithm is "computationally infeasible" on a general purpose computer. A working definition might be a computational complexity of, say, ten to the hundredth power. In other words, a circuit built out of quantum qubit registers would be eligible for a patent, but an ordinary circuit which processed audio (say, 50 Khertz) or video (say 6 Mhertz) would not be. I don't think there would be very many intermediate cases. Problems either "go to infinity" or they don't, as the case may be.

    I gather that a lot of the MPEG patents recite low-speed dedicated computing apparatus, which may have made economic sense twenty years ago, but which no longer makes sense.

    In respect of the "tied to process or transformation" prong, the patent should either 1) recite novel and non-obvious "tied hardware," or 2) some novel and non-obvious method of connecting the hardware to a computer, or 3) cause the hardware to act in some novel and non-obvious fashion for some purpose other than conveying information to a human user.

    For example, if Lonnie E. Holder wants to build a computer-controlled tractor transmission which behaves in different ways according to how muddy the ground is, according to directions from a computer program, the third clause would put the system within the scope of patentability, subject to novelty and nonobviousness. However, it should not be possible to patent the idea of plugging a standard radio or tape recorder's speaker output into a desktop computer's stereo input or microphone ports, using a standard cable, and running some possibly novel software which does something with the resulting data.

    Similarly, the USB specification (class library) for video covers all the usual controls of a VCR or video camera. One might, for example, write a program which tells a USB compatible VCR to advance one frame, records and stores the frame, and then directs the VCR to advance to the next frame. The VCR is synchronized to the computer in much the same way as a disk drive. Thus, data does not arrive until the computer is ready to handle it, and such software ceases to be "real time." This sort of thing should not be patentable. "Freeze-Frame" buttons have been present on VCR's for at least twenty years, being anticipated by similar buttons on moving film projectors.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    saulgoode, 29 Jan 2009 @ 8:56am

    Why do humans matter?

    Andrew D. Todd,

    I agree with most everything you stated, but I fail to see the reasoning behind the third condition.

    I wouldn't characterize software as ever conveying information to a user; software changes the state of hardware which may then be perceived by humans. You seem to be suggesting that a distinction be made between a human directly perceiving the hardware change and the hardware change being exploited without human involvement.

    Human involvement is not a consideration when evaluating hardware patents; why should it be a consideration for software?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Andrew D. Todd, 29 Jan 2009 @ 9:42am

    #9, saulgoode, Why do humans matter?

    Well, my intent was to draw a line between user interfaces and bona fide embedded systems, to say that no matter what images you put up on the computer screen, that does not overcome the software-ness of the software. My basic standard of reference in thinking about patent language would be video file formats. My language is provisional, and I invite better phrasings.

    Suppose you have a computer controlling a phased-array radio set. At one level, you have the controlling the actual array phasing, steering a radio beam around. You might be testing the thing by getting in your car and driving around to find out what the reception was like at different points. In electrical engineering, there is a distinction between "signal-type" people, or old-time radio engineers, who worry about that kind of stuff, and "computer-science-type" people. My concern is that someone who is doing pure applications software, say a database to keep track of telephone numbers, should not be able to recite some "magic words," and call himself a radio engineer when he is nothing of the kind, and doesn't know the first principles of electromagnetics. The idea is, insofar as possible, to keep the two spheres separate, and let them go their separate ways.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    BillDivX, 29 Jan 2009 @ 12:05pm

    Yet Another

    ~Signed-One more programmer who hates the idea of patents.
    Bleh.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    angry dude, 29 Jan 2009 @ 1:05pm

    techdirt morons

    Wow, a usual gathering of retards here

    Why the f*** software folks should be treated differently ?

    Because you enjoy cutting and pasting too much ?

    oh well.... back to hacking Perl regular expressions...

    Have a nice day, techdirt lemming-punks

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 29 Jan 2009 @ 4:07pm

      Re: angry dud

      Why the f*** software folks should be treated differently ?

      Precisely the point. Why should software be treated differently? Why should it be the only field of human endeavour which gets two kinds of legal “protection”—copyrights and patents?

      Let it make do with one kind of protection, just like everything else. Don’t treat it differently.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        angry dude, 29 Jan 2009 @ 9:06pm

        Re: Re: angry dud

        Moron

        you can copyright semiconductor chip desigh AND patent its functionality
        You can copyright network design AND patent its functionality

        For morions like you one more time: copyrigth is about expression and it does not protect functionality in any way
        If you write your software just to stare at it on screen then you are OK with copytighg
        If your software actyually does somthiong useful and novel then you need a patent
        Now drop dead punk

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 29 Jan 2009 @ 4:10pm

      Re: angry dud

      oh well.... back to hacking Perl regular expressions...

      Noam Chomsky was the first person in the world to think up the concept of regular grammars and regular expressions. Are you paying him patent royalties every time you write a regular expression? After all, he would never have invented the concept if he couldn’t patent it, right?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        angry dude, 29 Jan 2009 @ 9:01pm

        Re: Re: angry dud

        Dude

        I don't give a f*** about Noam Chomsky and other ivory tower dudes - most if not all of the stuff they do is utterly useless anyway but they still get paid regardless

        But I woudn't mind paying a small royalty to Larry Wall: the guy deserves it

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 29 Jan 2009 @ 6:16pm

      Re: techdirt morons

      Heh - Angry Dude called himself a retard.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Gene Cavanaugh, 30 Jan 2009 @ 11:24am

    Bilski

    It is easy to "peg" in one direction or the other - all X are slobs, all Y are wonderful people. Reagan taught us that this is a good thing - but it is not, the real world doesn't work that way.
    Patent attorneys, including me, who really believe in the US Constitution and its goals agree with Bilski, and hope it will be used to invalidate nearly all software patents. After all, if there is an invention there, it can be applied to the machine and its functions the software resides in. If it is simply using software to implement a non-invention, bad!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      angry dude, 30 Jan 2009 @ 12:03pm

      Re: Bilski

      Dude

      you just don't know what you are talking about

      One more time

      there is no f****** boundary between software and computer hardware

      Got it now ?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 30 Jan 2009 @ 12:39pm

        Re: angry dud

        there is no f****** boundary between software and computer hardware

        Does that mean you should be allowed to copyright computer hardware?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          angry dude, 30 Jan 2009 @ 12:54pm

          Re: Re: angry dud

          perhaps you should know that semiconductor chip layouts were always copyrightable

          Now go back to study for your GED

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Lonnie E. Holder, 30 Jan 2009 @ 12:43pm

      Re: Bilski

      Gene:

      I think part of the key to this lies with Leapfrog v. Fisher-Price, with Bilski thrown in. Spreadsheets have existed long before Lotus 1-2-3, Visicalc and Excel. Just because you converted a handwritten spreadsheet to an updated technology should not make the updating patentable. If that was the case, when we went from charcoal to pencils, then "spreadsheet formed by pencil" or "spreadsheet created by pen" would have been patentable. Nonsense. If I performed a process in my brain previously, merely putting that process on a computer is an efficiency statement, not a novelty statement.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        angry dude, 30 Jan 2009 @ 12:53pm

        Re: Re: Bilski

        Dude

        You obviously don't know what you are talking about

        Visicalc was a killer app, a sort of revolutionary idea at a time

        Lotus and Excel were just ripoffs

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Lonnie E. Holder, 30 Jan 2009 @ 2:28pm

          Re: Re: Re: Bilski

          angry dude:

          Visicalc may have been a "killer app," but when you read the inspiration for the "killer app," it was a professor making entries on a chalkboard. Ergo, the developers of Visicalc translated what was being done by a human into a newer technology. This scenario is exactly the Leapfrog v. Fisher-Price scenario. Ergo, YOU do not know what YOU are talking about, unless you wish to provide a rebuttal as to why Leapfrog v. Fisher-Price is inapplicable in this situation.

          And you need not call me "Dude." That is your name.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Cowherd, 1 Feb 2009 @ 9:03pm

    Tubes

    Mike writes: "should have checked the wires before posting this"

    What wires? Hadn't you heard? We use a "series of tubes" now!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2009 @ 7:22am

    While the patentability of software presents many issues, what remains, is the significant number of mentally lazy programmers who simply want to feed off of someone elses creative effort in order to get a paycheck. It's time to stop the thievery.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Use markdown for basic formatting. HTML is no longer supported.
  Save me a cookie
Follow Techdirt
Techdirt Gear
Shop Now: I Invented Email
Advertisement
Report this ad  |  Hide Techdirt ads
Essential Reading
Techdirt Deals
Report this ad  |  Hide Techdirt ads
Techdirt Insider Chat
Advertisement
Report this ad  |  Hide Techdirt ads
Recent Stories
Advertisement
Report this ad  |  Hide Techdirt ads

Close

Email This

This feature is only available to registered users. Register or sign in to use it.