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California Refuses To Play By Real ID Rules

from the waiting-it-out dept

The Department of Homeland Security's "Real ID" program is a classic case of "security theater." It's a project designed to give the appearance of increased security, but which will actually do the opposite (and cost a ton of taxpayer dollars at the same time). The good (and somewhat surprising) thing, is that almost everyone (outside of DHS) seems to recognize this. Not a single state plans to implement the rules by the original deadline. DHS has been granting "extensions" to states that promise to implement the rules by 2010 while threatening to make drivers' licenses no longer valid IDs for things like boarding airplanes or entering federal buildings for any state that doesn't comply. While there are a few states that haven't even asked for an extension, California asked for an extension while saying clearly that it wasn't promising to implement Real ID at all -- but would use the extension to study the matter. This was a test, and DHS has backed down, granting the extension, allowing California drivers' licenses to remain legitimate federal IDs. This could give more confidence to other states to not just blindly implement Real ID. At this point, you have to think that many states are just waiting this out, assuming that there will be a change in management at DHS after the election this November, and the whole concept of Real ID will get changed or scrapped.

Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    Andrew, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 5:48am

    Shouldn't it be "By" instead of "Be"?

     

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  2.  
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    Friday, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 6:25am

    Re:

    No, definitely "Be"

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 6:50am

    Seems like it ought to be 'by'

     

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  4.  
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    Engrish Teacher, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 6:56am

    It definitely should be "BY"

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 7:08am

    come on guys, be real about this.

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 7:10am

    "Be" has more character... :)

    Yea the REAL ID sounds like a stupid idea. I'd love to see a state refuse and then that state's senators and representatives not be able to go to work.

     

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  7.  
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    Falindraun, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 7:10am

    Real ID

    The reason California drivers' licenses are to remain legitimate federal IDs is because believe it or not California already is in compliance with the law. Since almost none of you that read this will ever go to the link below (yes you might have to cut and paste it) I posted the requirements. From what I know about Colorado we already meet those requirements (in addition you also have to be here legally). Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about, unless its about old people (75+) then just give them and exemption due to poor record keeping in those days. They (DHS) just want to make sure that we are who we say we are (IMHO mostly due to ID theft). Why people refuse to prove that they are who they say they are is beyond me, but thats just the opinion from a soldier.

    http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/29jan20081800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/08-140 .htm

    Section 202(b) of the Act directs that REAL ID-compliant licenses
    and identification cards must include the following information:
    (1) The person's full legal name, date of birth, and gender;
    (2) The person's driver's license or identification card number;
    (3) A digital photograph of the person;
    (4) The person's address of principal residence;
    (5) The person's signature;
    (6) Physical security features designed to prevent tampering,
    counterfeiting, or duplication of the driver's licenses and
    identification cards for fraudulent purposes; and
    (7) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum
    elements.

    Section 202(c) of the Act also mandates certain minimum standards
    that States must adopt when issuing driver's licenses and
    identification cards intended for use for official purposes (referred
    to as REAL ID-compliant cards). Those standards include, but are not
    limited to, the following:
    The State shall require, at a minimum, presentation and
    verification of (1) A photo identity document (except that a non-photo
    identity document is acceptable if it includes both the applicant's
    full legal name and date of birth); (2) documentation showing the
    applicant's date of birth; (3) proof of the person's Social Security
    Number (SSN) or verification that the applicant is not eligible for a
    SSN; and (4) documentation showing the applicant's name and address of
    principal residence. Sec. 202(c).

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 7:30am

    Re: Real ID

    My State drivers license passes all of those points, and I'm from Australia and our ID's have not changed in at least 5 years. Don't see what the fuss is about...

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 7:33am

    Re: Re: Real ID

    Freedom vs serviture to the state.

     

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  10.  
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    troye, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 8:01am

    dont let the government own you

    SAY NOW TO REAL ID!!! ... or suffer like the Jews!

     

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  11.  
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    Chronno S. Trigger, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 8:10am

    Re: Real ID

    My state fallows those guidelines already. Except for the last half of #7. I don't know what information is on the magnetic strip or bar-code.

    I may have missed something in a past article or some link somewhere. Why is this a bad thing? Is it just people being against one large database where ID information is stored compared to 50 or so smaller databases?

     

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  12.  
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    Mike (profile), Mar 21st, 2008 @ 8:35am

    Re:

    Oops. Fixed.

     

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  13.  
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    aj, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 8:39am

    Well...

    I'm not paranoid, nor am i a criminal, however, I don't think i like the fact that my state may be storing my ssn on my drivers license. I keep my ssn card in a safe, and other than that i try not to ever give it out. I really don't see a need for that info to be on a bar code on my license or any other state issued card other than my ss card. I feel safe as it is, I am not prepared to give up my privacy for security. I understand there is risk, thats ok, there is risk in everything we do.

     

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  14.  
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    Loren, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 8:58am

    Turn up the heat

    The federal gov't should realize that if none of the states are willing to voluntarily accept Real ID, they need to start twisting arms. Such as with the (old) national 55 MPH speedlimit, the Federal Gov't had to withhold federal highway money from states refusing to comply. Force everyone to accept Real ID! Because it's for our own good.

     

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  15.  
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    nipseyrussell, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 9:15am

    its not for MY good. thanks for thinking of me, but i pass

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 9:16am

    SCARY.

    anybody ever seen Zeitgeist?
    yeahhhh...
    I'm moving to Canada.

     

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  17.  
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    tori, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 9:21am

    fascism

    It's not about identification, it's about control!

    http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm
    Watch part three!

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 9:34am

    Re: Turn up the heat

    Thats the same thing they did to force the drinking age to be 21

     

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  19.  
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    Real Smart, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 9:38am

    Falindraun is Real Retarded

    Why is it the brainwash-ee(Falindraun) wants us to comply to yet another pack of lies.

    Maybe he should go fight for freedumb some more.

     

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  20.  
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    AgaricX, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 9:39am

    The key concept is:

    A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum
    elements. Vague isn't it? Thats BigBro for you.

    Yes, some low-tech this is implemented in the security strip on your DL now. However, this only encodes a digital representation of your fingerprint. However, if they up the ante with new technology such as RFID, your entire dossier can (and will) be stored on your 'Real ID'. Walk through a door set to scan those RFID, and you have a convenient, government issue personal tracking device.

    If you are in the military, you have already committed your servitude to the government and their whims... And I wholeheartedly commend you for it. However, this is not something that should be initiated on the populous. It is NOT for our own good. Do you honestly think it will be easier to find people who are not supposed to be here by instigating a citizen tracking system? It will just entrap the legal populace and make it slightly harder to stay hidden.

     

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  21.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 9:53am

    Get a clue before you comment

    Wow - it's really surprising how many people will make uninformed comments just to make comments. From what Iíve read here thereís only one or two people that even understand anything regarding Real ID.

    Letís dispel the rumors and misinformation first. So I guess we need to start with the comment from our friend AJ Ė sorry dude but Real ID has nothing to do with your SS#:

    ďI'm not paranoid, nor am i a criminal, however, I don't think i like the fact that my state may be storing my ssn on my drivers license. I keep my ssn card in a safe, and other than that i try not to ever give it out. I really don't see a need for that info to be on a bar code on my license or any other state issued card other than my ss card. I feel safe as it is, I am not prepared to give up my privacy for security. I understand there is risk, thats ok, there is risk in everything we do.Ē

    Another big WOW - nowhere in the Real ID information is there any mention of storing your SS# on the id Ė dude, read up before you comment or just go back to trying to Google nudie pictures of Agent Scully.

    I want everyone to think about this fact: the majority of all of the 9/11 terrorist that flew the planes into the World Trade Center boarded those planes with real VA drivers licenses obtained by showing fraudulent breeder documents. One of the goals of Real ID is to make it tougher to obtain an ID or drivers license with fake or altered documents.

    Gee Ė that sound awful doesnít it? Why would we want to make it harder for illegal immigrants and terrorist to get US IDís?

    And really, do you honestly believe that thereís any information that will go on a Real ID that the government canít already obtain with a keystroke about you? Listen people, years ago the military disclosed that they have satellite technology that can read the mint mark off of a dime laying on the ground from outer space. You thing that if the government wants to know the titles of the dirty movies that you rent or with whom youíre cheating on your spouse with that they canít find out? Please, then you need to get with the Get Real Act.

    Real ID is attempting to establish some strict guidelines aimed at making it more difficult for someone to illegally obtain or fraudulently alter an ID or drivers license. This has nothing to do with tracking who or what you are and or do.

    If youíre some conspiracy theorist feel free to email me directly and Iíll be more than happy to share some things with you regarding technology thatís already out there and in use by major corporations that will really make you wonder about who it is that cares about what you do with whom, where you do it, how often, and if you while sitting at that stoplight last Monday on your way to work what you did with that booger that you picked out of your left nostril!

    Get a grip Ė Real ID will not be axed by the next President and states will be required to comply and you should be happy about it. This one really is about protecting America and legal Americans.

    No I don't work for any branch of the government and yes I do know 100% about what I'm talking about...

     

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  22.  
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    Craig, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:10am

    Real ID

    Scrap this idea... if you want a REAL ID, then biometric is the way to go! Either you're in the database, or you're not - and if you're not, you're not going anywhere.

     

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  23.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:14am

    Website with the Act and other information

    It's Better to be Thought a Fool then to Open Your Mouth and Remove All Doubt.

    Here - everyone go read up first; http://www.secure-license.org/cms/index.php

     

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  24.  
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    TheDock22, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:17am

    Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Sam M, I think you are being naive about the government's intentions on this one. First you say:

    sorry dude but Real ID has nothing to do with your SS#:

    Actually, it does. If you read the comment above posting the rules for a RealID it says "(3) proof of the person's Social Security Number (SSN) or verification that the applicant is not eligible for a SSN;"

    So, they do want your number. For now it is just to prove you have one, but I think having to provide it is silly anyway. How many identity theft victims are there out there just because their SSN was stolen?

    Another big WOW - nowhere in the Real ID information is there any mention of storing your SS# on the id dude, read up before you comment or just go back to trying to Google nudie pictures of Agent Scully.

    You thing that if the government wants to know the titles of the dirty movies that you rent or with whom you're cheating on your spouse with that they can't find out? Please, then you need to get with the Get Real Act.

    This is where I think you are being awfully trusting. The comment above (again, I assume you haven't read it) Clearly states "(7) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum elements."

    They are very vague in saying WHAT those elements are. For now, maybe it is just your name, birth date, and residence. What about in the future? Maybe the government will decide to start listing any criminal activity.

    If you are arrested, the record it on your RealID. Maybe they will record personal information about you like family members or common telephone numbers, vehicles you own, or other "information" they deem is necessary for the interest of public safety. Don't you think the government would look at something to help officers know who they are dealing with just by swiping an ID card?

    While storing information like this might seem like a great way to cut down on crime and keep our public safety officers safer on the streets, to what degree of freedom are we willing to give up for that? An ID card that has my whole life on it. If it got stolen, I guarantee criminals will figure out how to hack into them and find out all about my life.

    So, I say no RealID card. Do I think the government is interested in tracking me personally? No, not at all. But the allure of a "public safety" tool might be too much for a corrupt government.

     

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  25.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:25am

    Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Again - your SS# will not be stored anywhere on or in a Real ID. But yes you need to prove that you have one or don't have to have one in order to get an ID. No different then today in a lot of states.

    And - the government is only putting the security requirements out there. It's up to each state to choose from a number of different security technologies out there. There is no big government database of your info based upon Real ID. Branches of the government already has all of the info that they need about you - believe me I'm fully aware that there is no such thing as privacy anymore but Real ID has nothing at all to do with this.

    ID's and drivers licenses will still be issued and controlled by the state - the government is just saying lets secure the document that allows you to do just about anything....

     

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  26.  
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    Rose M. Welch, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:25am

    My problem with RealID...

    ...is that it will make it harder for poor people to obtains IDs. Starting with the fact that birth certs and other documents can be startlingly expensive and ending with the ID cost in my state going from five dollars to twenty dollars. Just because of RealID.

    Furthermore, my personal information, including my fingerprint, is more important to me than a bit of terrorism that may or may not be stopped by this ID. I am not willing to trade freedom for safety - and in this case it's just the perception of safety.

     

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  27.  
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    TheDock22, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    ID's and drivers licenses will still be issued and controlled by the state - the government is just saying lets secure the document that allows you to do just about anything....

    Then why not just make the requirements different rather than everyone having to go out and buy a RealID. See, you will not be able to just get a Driver's license and have that count as identification. You will need a state issued driver's license AND this RealID. If they government was only interested in "Securing the document" they would just change the laws required for obtaining state ids and diver's licenses to be more secure.

    The fact that they are requiring a completely separate ID from the ones states already issue sets off a big red flag in my head.

     

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  28.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:35am

    Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Come on people - read a little before you write. I don't have the space or time to educate all of you, including the author but Real ID is not about tracking what you do and sure it's 100% perfect but its a start to a problem. And I'd like to see where the facts for this article came from...

    There are 100's of other issues that have to be resolved to help and I'm I member of an non-profit organization of industry experts that works with the gov to point out where we need to focus regarding information security - and I am the first person to point out holes.

    And if don't think that I couldn't become you with just your SS# please feel free to post it. Really I don't even need it. But with just your SS# In less then 30 days I could be more you then you are now. The only people that wouldn't know that I wasn't you would be your family, and I could probably make them think twice about it...

    In order to begin to fix a problem you have to know how the problem occurs. And again, I'm an expert...

     

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  29.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:38am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Real ID is a set of security requirements for state issued ID's and DL's!!!!!!! It's not a federal id or ever will be!!!

    And by each state getting to to choose from a grouping of different security features it makes cracking every state a little tougher.

    You people don't even know this?

     

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  30.  
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    TheDock22, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:40am

    Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    There are 100's of other issues that have to be resolved to help and I'm I member of an non-profit organization of industry experts that works with the gov to point out where we need to focus regarding information security - and I am the first person to point out holes.

    If that's true then you are doing a bad job considering the P2P information leaks and laptops being stolen with sensitive information on them. I think the government needs to focus on securing themselves and worry less about securing the citizens.

     

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  31.  
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    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:41am

    Re: My problem with RealID...

    It has nothing to do with any additional personal information being stored on your DL.

    Believe me - the substrate cost for a Real ID would cost more then $20 on the street. Some of the technology is worth millions. And guess what the government did develop or profit from any of it!

     

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  32.  
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    Sam M, CSCS, CISSP, CHP, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:43am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    And we/they are - but why be a part of the problem when you can try to help?

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Why do you think that the private sector is now trying to help. The government needs and is open to private sector advice on the problems and how to begin fixing them.

    Do you know how you eat an elephant?

    One bite at a time...

     

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  34.  
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    Sam M, CSCS, CISSP, CHP, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Sorry that one was mine also...

     

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  35.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:48am

    Re: Re: My problem with RealID...

    I meant didn't not did

     

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  36.  
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    Mostly Harmless, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 10:48am

    What about Minnesota?

    Minnesota has flatly refused to implement the program, regardless of the consequences. Unlike California who may be half-assedly dragging their feet "to study the matter", there are other states just plain refusing because of the futility of the program. Let's thank the states that are gutsy enough to say no to the DHS, and not just drag the process out.

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:05am

    whats on the magnetic stripe of my california drivers licence, (old magnetic card reader ftw!)

    %CAPALO ALTO^mylastname$myfirstname$mymiddlename^mystreetaddress^?
    ;15digitnumber=10mmyyyy99dd?

    two lines, broken between the ? and ;.

    i live in palo alto, the last 7 digits of the 15 digit number are the numbers on the front of my licence, i dont know what the 10 is for (glasses?, year it expires?, prob. the expiration), then comes my birth date, with 99 separating the day from the month and year. all the symbols appear exactly as i put them. there are also start characters (look like a smiley in hyper terminal) before each line. the first line ends with a new line character (triangle pointing right) and the last line ends with an end character (looks like a heart).

    the 8th to last digit in the 15 digit number is 4 and the number on the front of my license starts with D, but that may just be coincidence.

    no hair color, eye color, height, weight, picture or signature data, as far as i can tell. (that stuff is printed on the card, for those that dont know)

     

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  38.  
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    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:08am

    "welcome to 1984,
    knock, knock at your front door,
    it's the suade denim secret police,
    they've come for you uncool niece..."

     

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  39.  
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    Mike (profile), Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:22am

    Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Sam, out of curiosity, do you work for a company that stands to benefit from Real ID being put in place?

     

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  40.  
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    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:25am

    doh....

    ah ha....there it is Mike...
    Sam is a wolf in wolves clothing.

     

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  41.  
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    Jonathan, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:26am

    What about the ridiculous costs

    I know that money is a hard-to-come-by thing when your 18-20 years of age. I am sick of seeing more than 1/4 of my paycheck goiong to the government when i make barely enough to feed and cloth myself. I'm making 300 dollars every two weeks. 100 of it is disappearing! Why the hell should I allow more taxes be put onto my paycheck. I'm hurting daily from the amount of taxation. While some of you can live through more taxes to pay for this thing to pass, I cannot.

    If the cost of ID's rose along with having to buy these new high-tech garbage cards then I just wouldn't buy one. While this wont affect people who have money to throw around a little wiggle-room so to speak, anyone who is in the poorer class cannot afford these. It would just make them try and fake the cards, or for that matter just not travel anywhere anymore. This Real ID would limit poor peoples chance at traveling or being able to do things they normally would have. Also, there is alot of theft, and when you put anything down on paper, card, plastic, metal, doesn't matter. Someone, sometime will steal it, and that'll be the end of you and your identity. I trust my drivers licsense becuase it is simple, and straight to the point. Sure, impriove the drivers licsense, but to create a whole new card I have to carry around in addition to? no thanks, I have enough crap in my wallet.

    Thirdly, I'd rather spend the money on helping people get out of poverty, maybe spend the billions it would take to manufacture these cards in bulk, and the effort of distributing them, and spend it on creating jobs( run by the gov't) for people who have no jobs or education. GET THEM OFF WELFARE! it'lll make everyone happy, even them.

     

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  42.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:31am

    Re: Re: My problem with RealID...

    I meant didn't not did

     

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  43.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:37am

    Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Not at all - that's the thing about these organizations - we base our suggestions without providing information on type or technology to be used or from whom it should be purchased.

     

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  44.  
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    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:40am

    Re: doh....

    Not at all - in fact quite not even close. I'm the first person to stand up and tell the gov to go f*ck off when they're being stupid or spending my money on worthless programs.

     

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  45.  
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    Mike (profile), Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:43am

    Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    Not at all - that's the thing about these organizations - we base our suggestions without providing information on type or technology to be used or from whom it should be purchased.

    "Our suggestions?" Who is "our"? Who do you represent?

     

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  46.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:49am

    I'm an Information Security expert, too.

    So, wait, I think I'm lost... exactly what problem is it that RealID is supposed to be fixing? If you want me to believe that collecting all this data together centrally will make it more secure, you're full of it.

     

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  47.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:51am

    Re: Real ID

    Snerk. Yeah, 'cause there are NO problems with biometrics. Like false positives, false negatives, or the fact that whatever pattern you're matching is just a binary string anyways...

     

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  48.  
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    Jonathan, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 11:57am

    Whether this is a good idea or a bad idea, we are entering into an economic recession, and could use the money elsewhere, or for that matter lower taxes by spending less....what a concept. Just save, not spend for a while...

     

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  49.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:01pm

    Re: doh....

    And read above - I in no way stand to make anything - or anyone that I know - from the Real ID Act.
    I'm informed, and am a member of numerous organizations that work within the information security marketplace. Believe me there are a lot of programs that I have just outright disagreed with but this one is a good start.
    Is it perfect, no ‚Äď like I stated earlier the only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time‚Ķ

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:03pm

    Re: I'm an Information Security expert, too.

    You must not be - because they're not collecting data centrally. It's still state run...

    This is about the security of the DL or ID and of verifying that you are who you say you are. That's it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:04pm

    Re: Re: I'm an Information Security expert, too.

    Yup...completely agree

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    For one thing I don't represent anyone other than my own level of knowledge on the subject.

    The "our" that I refered to is non-profit industry expert groups that write white papers and reports pointing out problems and making general suggestions regarding solutions.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:10pm

    Re:

    In the end this will cost less - do you have any idea of what the cost are for medicare fraud. What this have to do with DL's, well if I have a DL that's not mine but has my picture I can get medical services fraudulantly. And this happens a lot.

    And that's only one of the overall savings...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:15pm

    Re: Re: Re: I'm an Information Security expert, to

    Thanks - someone actually understands that this not some federal ID program. That got voted down before it even got started believe me.

    And guess what's next, Birth Certificates. There are over 5000 different BC's printed around the country.

    They are the easiest breeder document to fake in the country and people hold them in such high regard. I have 7, all with big stamps stating "Not a real document" that I put on them but everyone of them looks real... I use them to show people that we make it easy for illegals and terrorist to become Americans.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:28pm

    Re: What about the ridiculous costs

    The Gov has nothing to do with the creation of the ID's or DL's - that will happen at your local DMV just like always. Your ID or DL will just be more secure and tougher to fake!

    Geez people - quit it with the dumb comments. This is not going to cost a the tax payers a dime more other than you might have to pay a buck or two more for a DL or ID.

    But it will end up saving the tax payers money. Fraud cost the average family over $700 every year - believe me, when the hospitals, insurance companies, or banks get ripped off we all pay for it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:32pm

    This is my first time commenting online like this and the one thing that I've learned is that 9 time out of 10 nobody has any clue, including the writer that penned the article regarding what Real ID is...

    Everybody just jumps up and says it must be a way for the gov to track you, it will cost us millions, spend the money on the poor... Holy crap none of you have even read the act, have you?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    AJ, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 12:57pm

    Re: Get a clue before you comment

    I do have a clue, i did "some" research on what information is stored on my drivers license and according to this web site

    http://www.turbulence.org/Works/swipe/state_analysis.html

    plenty of states are storing your ssn on the bar code,

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    AJ, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:04pm

    Clue

    I don't think you bothered to read thru my post before you flamed me Sam M. I said nothing about the Real ID in my post i said my state. A quick search revealed this site, which is what promped me to post in the first place, and according to that source, there are some states putting your ss# on your drivers license bar code...


    http://www.turbulence.org/Works/swipe/state_analysis.html

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:05pm

    Re: Re: Get a clue before you comment

    And that would go away - Real ID does not support the storage of SS#'s in any method. What's there now is not based on the Real ID, every freaking state is different now and exposing people to fraud. This is trying to get away from that.

    Holy Crap!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:13pm

    Re: Clue

    Sorry I'm stuck on why everyone thinks Real ID is bad. Part of the problem is that from state to state there are no regulations regarding what should or shouldn't be there and how DL's and ID's should be verified, created, or secured.

    A little more info for everyone.

    There's not a state in the US that has an Information Security Officer or anyone who guides how information should be secured but if you're a public company with over $50 million in stock you have to have one. Doesn't make any sense does it?

    So in the end the gov steps in and creates a set of guidelines to move states into providing a more secure document for the people that live there.

    Has anyone every heard of HIPAA? Gee it was such a bad thing and would cost billions - why should doctors and hospitals protect a persons health information. "We're not going to do, we'll fight it and you can't enforce it." My butt - it's happening now and its about time.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:14pm

    alright...

    so tell me again how this makes me "safer"??
    can I take the card out of my wallet and stab someone with it?
    maybe throw it like a ninja star?
    it's alright though... keep telling yourself that this will stop the "terrorists" and "illegals". you may have no problem with being nothing more than a number...maybe the rest of us do.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:18pm

    Re: alright...

    Dude you haven't read any of this have you? This is no gov number thing, this is still run and handled by the state. IT JUST MAKES THE ID HARDER TO FAKE OR CHANGE!

    What can't people understand - the gov has nothing to do with it other then creating a set of guidelines.

    If it's harder to get a DL maybe the next freaking terrorist won't be able to board a plane. Maybe some illegal won't get a fake ID that says he's a US citizen and go to the hospital on your dime.

    Do I even need to go on?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:20pm

    Re: Re: alright...

    If the US Gov wants to track you I can pretty assure you that you won't even be aware that's it happening.

    And guess what, you're already a number to everyone - gov or business, we all are, get used to it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:25pm

    Re: Re: alright...

    I would feel a little safer knowing that 30 terrorist might have a tougher time getting DL's so that they can get on a plane that my best friends girlfriend was deadheading on and fly it into a building killing 1000's.

    Maybe I won't have to pay for some illegals 13 child to be born becuase he couldn't get a DL using stolen info.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:27pm

    Re: alright...

    There, you're safer, you're not a number from this and it might just save you money. Go away - next question.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:34pm

    ok....

    why make a second form of ID?? why not just make the DL more secure and harder to fake??
    and since when is the "state" not the government??
    you know... water is awful hard to hold in a paper bag there Sam.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:39pm

    Re: ok....

    Dude - ITS NOT A SECOND ID THIS IS FOR CURRENT DL'S AND ID'S ISSUED BY THE STATE.

    And the state will be storing less information because they'll only need to verify a couple of key items and not place all your info into a crackable bar code like some do now.

    Dude - I have to say it, go back to playing second life of what ever you do. Leave the important stuff up to people that take the time to review all of the information because you haven't and I'm sure that you never do...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:39pm

    wow, are you an ignorant s.o.b.
    See, what would make me feel safer is a government that didn't try to impose it's will on the rest of the world. We take down dictators and terrorists in some place, but prop them up and train them in others. An ID card won't stop that now will it? Didn't think so. Now go wave your flag!!
    Next!!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:43pm

    Re:

    Take another hit from the bong and leave - I'm not a blind flag waver and guess what we pay people to try to protect us. This isn't some "will" thats getting pushed on you, it the gov trying to protect you from states that haven't kept up with security regarding ID.

    No, it's not going to stop everything but if it stops one plane from getting flow into a building it's worth it. You're not losing any freedom you stupid moron.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:48pm

    Re:

    Hey - I'm pretty sure that that the gov's will and the rest of the world has nothing to do with a DL being harder to fake.

    Are you even in the US - or are you typing from somewhere in the middle east there Abu?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Sam M, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:49pm

    Re:

    Guess you're real colors came out here. You could care less about Real ID, you're not even in the US or if you are you just want a place to complain about US global policy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:51pm

    Re:

    This is my first time commenting online like this and the one thing that I've learned is that 9 time out of 10 nobody has any clue, including the writer that penned the article regarding what Real ID is...

    If this is your first time commenting, you've picked up the ad hominem flame technique quite quickly.

    Everybody just jumps up and says it must be a way for the gov to track you, it will cost us millions, spend the money on the poor... Holy crap none of you have even read the act, have you?

    Are you saying that it won't cost millions?

    http://www.ncsl.org/standcomm/scbudg/REALIDANALYSIS_Sept06.htm

    It's not hard to find good *independent* researchers who point out the problems with Real ID. And to brush aside those who prove you wrong by claiming they're clueless is rather weak.

    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/01/realid_costs_an.html
    http://www.cato.org/tes timony/ct-jh041106.html

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:51pm

    exactly

    thank you for making my point... again.
    and yes, I am in the US, neo-con. now, like I said go wave your flag before I burn it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:55pm

    Re: exactly

    Dude - you're such a tard. I could care less if you burn it, blow your nose on it, or wipe your *ss with it. That's your right - enjoy it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:56pm

    if you couldn't tell, I am trying to say that the DHS ID card is pointless. I shouldn't need a special ID just to go somewhere in this country.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:57pm

    Re: exactly

    And - I don't even own one.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:57pm

    how many rules and laws do we need? how many rights do we need taken away?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:59pm

    Re:

    dude - its not a special card - it's just your normal DL just most secure.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    sam m, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 1:59pm

    Re:

    You have no clue what this even about - I'm done with you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    AJ, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 2:00pm

    My point is..

    Your a Tard Sam m, find a hard object and start pounding until it sinks in. I Said VERY CLEARLY, "I don't think i like the fact that my state may be storing my ssn on my drivers license." so if the real id act would force the state to remove that information from my license for good, then that would be a good thing and I would have no argument against it. I think the government SHOULD have a uniform requirement, however, I also think once they open the door to personal information on a card, it would be very easy for them to "add" a bit here and there, so they should be transparent right off on what they intend to put on your license.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 2:39pm

    not federal??

    from your own link (by the way.. love the fear tactics on the website)

    SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.

    (a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use.--

    (1) In general.--Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this division, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.
    (2) State certifications.--The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation, may prescribe by regulation.


    hmmm... the Secretary (Chertoff) works for BushCo. right??
    but i know.. it's state run... and if my state doesn't abide by the standards then I can't travel. Thanks. And once I have supplied all this information it goes where?? They just look at it and say.. "ok, here you go" ?? or does it get stored somewhere maybe??
    I think the water is draining out of your paper bag now Sam.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    CVPunk, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 2:48pm

    i guess

    I guess you are right Sam, I would feel more secure.
    Terrorists can't board a plane here in the states. Great.
    oh... wait... what if they hi-jack one from say... Canada?
    Then what? no, you're right... we would be safe from everything with the new card. Hell, my daughters allergies might even go away. I feel much better now.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 21st, 2008 @ 3:56pm

    I do not like green eggs and SpAM M

    'nuff said

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    identicon
    dazcon5, Mar 25th, 2008 @ 5:18am

    Re: exactly

    Gee... nice one slick, Do us a favor and remove yourself from the gene pool or at least don't breed.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    identicon
    Alimas, Apr 3rd, 2008 @ 5:31am

    Re: Real ID

    Its the centralization of all the information into a national database, thats the issue.
    I'm all proud of my state, NH, for not going with this crap.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    identicon
    Alimas, Apr 3rd, 2008 @ 5:33am

    Re: Turn up the heat

    Quite definitely the opposite of for my own good.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    identicon
    Alimas, Apr 3rd, 2008 @ 5:56am

    Re: Re: Re: alright...

    There are so many basic logic flaws in the 9/11 "attacks" that I have hard time respecting the intellect of anyone that fully buys our government's crap on it at face value.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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