Arrest Of Telegram’s Pavel Durov Raises Questions, But The Answers May Not Be Known For A While

from the let's-not-jump-to-conclusions-either-way dept

There’s plenty of news flying around over the past few days after it was reported on Saturday that Pavel Durov, the founder and CEO of Telegram, had been arrested at Bourget airport in France after taking his private plane there from Azerbaijan. Durov, who got a French citizenship in 2021 apparently knew that there was a risk he might be arrested, but chose to go anyway.

The reporting on why he was arrested has been somewhat vague, to the point that it could be hyped up nonsense, or it could actually be legit. Initial reports claimed that he was arrested over a “lack of moderation” but other reports suggested potentially more serious claims around drug trafficking, terrorism, and CSAM.

France’s OFMIN, an office tasked with preventing violence against minors, had issued an arrest warrant for Durov in a preliminary investigation into alleged offences including fraud, drug trafficking, cyberbullying, organised crime and promotion of terrorism, one of the sources said.

Durov is accused of failing to take action to curb the criminal use of his platform.

“Enough of Telegram’s impunity,” said one of the investigators, adding they were surprised Durov came to Paris knowing he was a wanted man.

The problem is, without more details, we have no idea what is actually being charged and what his alleged responsibility is. After all, we’ve seen other cases where people have been charged with sex trafficking, when the reality was that was just how law enforcement spun a refusal to hand over data on users.

On top of that, leaping to criminal charges against an exec over civil penalties for a company… seems strange. For that to make any sense, someone should need to show actual criminal behavior by Durov, and not just “his service hosted bad stuff.”

The head of OFMIN, the French police agency that issued the warrant, posted to LinkedIn (of all places) that: “At the heart of this issue is the lack of moderation and cooperation of the platform (which has nearly 1 billion users), particularly in the fight against paedophilia.” Again, that is frightfully unclear. Is it just that Telegram wasn’t doing enough to fight CSAM? And if so, what “lack of moderation and cooperation” is enough? Because lots of websites are accused (often unfairly) of not doing enough in the fight against CSAM. Or is there something more?

And if it was just that they weren’t “cooperating” does it make sense to jump straight to criminal charges against the CEO, rather than penalties and fines for the company?

One thing, which I’ve talked about on the Ctrl-Alt-Speech podcast a few times, is how often Telegram comes up in discussions of content moderation and bad behavior, but politicians kind of wave it off as untouchable. Telegram had claimed to be under the threshold that would cause it to be registered as a “Very Large Online Platform” (VLOP) in the EU, and EU officials seemed to buy that claim.

But the numbers were still quite close (a claimed 41 million EU users, when the threshold is 45 million). And even if you’re not a VLOP, there were some requirements for smaller platforms, and it was unclear if Telegram was even remotely concerned with complying.

On top of that there were plenty of stories of bad behavior across social media first being planned on Telegram. The most recent example was the riots in the UK. While lots of people talked about misinformation on ExTwitter that contributed to that, much of that content originated on Telegram.

But, hosting bad behavior alone shouldn’t lead to criminal charges. Even ignoring law enforcement demands seems like it should lead to civil penalties before reaching criminal charges. That’s why I’m really hoping that there are more details here that justify the arrest. Without the details, though, it’s really difficult to know if this is an attack on free speech, or legitimate charges over actual criminal behavior.

I know that many people are leaping to conclusions one way or the other, but until we know the details, everyone’s guessing.

Earlier this year, Durov had given a surprising and rare interview with the Financial Times, where he actually talked about some of the effort (or lack thereof?) that Telegram puts into dealing with criminal behavior on the platform:

Durov said Telegram planned to improve its moderation processes this year as multiple global elections unfold and “deploy AI-related mechanisms to address potential issues”.

But “unless they cross red lines, I don’t think that we should be policing people in the way they express themselves”, said Durov. “I believe in the competition of ideas. I believe that any idea should be challenged . . . Otherwise, we can quickly degrade into authoritarianism.”

That same interview noted that the company only had 50 full time employees, though some reports have suggested it did have some other outsourced moderators. But in general it took a pretty hands off approach. That alone should never lead to criminal charges, though.

Also, there are different parts to Telegram’s service. There are the various channels, which act as sort of semi-public “groups” around certain topics. That part is more like social media communities. But there is also parts that are more about person-to-person communication, which the company has long insisted is end-to-end encryption, though many people have doubted the security of it, since Telegram does not reveal how it works.

On top of that, the “encrypted” messaging is not enabled by default, only works in one-to-one communications (any group messaging is unencrypted) and is quite hard to actually turn on. In other words, the vast, vast, vast majority of content on Telegram is not encrypted and can be seen by the company.

So, there are big questions about whether or not the charges against him relate to the more social media style content, or the (supposedly) encrypted communications part.

On top of that, there’s the Russia question in all of this. Telegram was based in Dubai, and part of the reason for that was that the Russian-born Durov was effectively forced to flee Russia and sell his former company, VK (basically a Russian clone of Facebook that was quite successful), after refusing to remove some content that the Kremlin didn’t like.

However, more recently, there have been claims that the Russian government has access to private Telgram communications, and Russian officials have said that the company “cooperates with Russian law enforcement.” And the response to Durov’s arrest from Russian officials suggest that they’re not happy about the arrest. While the Kremlin itself has been somewhat cautious in its public response, Russian media has been condemning the arrest, and various politicians have been calling for the French to release Durov.

The other interesting point is how central Telegram has been to Russia’s war in Ukraine, for both sides.

Of course, Europol has also said that Telegram cooperates with its request for dealing with terrorism online. And other reports have talked about Telegram cooperating with German officials and handing over data on users.

Combine all that and, basically, at this point, no one really knows what’s going on. It’s possible that Telegram cooperated on some law enforcement efforts and didn’t on others. It’s possible that it had good reasons to cooperate or not cooperate. It’s possible the team got overwhelmed. But it’s also possible that it just said “fuck it” and decided to ignore legal demands because they didn’t care.

As of right now, we just don’t know.

It sounds potentially worrisome, because if it’s really just “well, they refused to take down what we wanted,” that would be a dangerous attack on free speech. But if it’s “Durov himself was actively involved in the creation of and the sharing of illegal content,” then it could be trickier. And there’s a wide spectrum in between.

I will note that, over on Twitter, Elon’s fans are insisting that this is a test run before officials arrest Elon, but that seems ridiculously unlikely.

Also, I have to remind folks that a little over two decades ago, France also put out an arrest warrant on Yahoo CEO Tim Koogle, charging him as a war criminal, because Yahoo’s auction site in the US (notably, not the French version) allowed people to sell Nazi memorabilia. Eventually he was acquitted. You would hope in the two decades since then that officials would be a bit more sophisticated about this stuff, but at this moment, it’s just not clear at all.

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Comments on “Arrest Of Telegram’s Pavel Durov Raises Questions, But The Answers May Not Be Known For A While”

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22 Comments
Adrian Lopez says:

This doesn't look good for France

Unless Durov was, in fact, involved in the production of illegal content or was aware of specific instances of such content and did nothing to remove and report it, this arrest is just plain outrageous. It’s also a symptom of a terrible malady that’s especially prevalent in Europe: the attitude that the way to deal with online harms is to deal with things in the most heavy-handed way possible, either through ill-conceived and chilling legislation or arrests over third-party conduct.

Anonymous Coward says:

As noted in the article, Durov having a French citizenship (along with Russian, Saint Kitts and Nevis (part of the Commonwealth realm) and United Arab Emirates citizenship), he’ll be charged (if it happens) in respect to the French law. Tim Koogle and Elon don’t have any European Union citizenship, so the reach of the EU/French law is totally different.

Anonymous Coward says:

But, hosting bad behavior alone shouldn’t lead to criminal charges.

[Taking a hands off approach] alone should never lead to criminal charges, though.

… France also put out an arrest warrant on Yahoo CEO Tim Koogle, charging him as a war criminal, because Yahoo’s auction site in the US (notably, not the French version) allowed people to sell Nazi memorabilia.

Should is doing a lot of work there. But France does not have §230 protections like the US does.

You want to destroy §230? This is the sort of thing you’d get.

R.H. (profile) says:

Re: Re: Racist?

I wouldn’t say it’s racist, it’s just outdated. The “first world” was the US and its Cold War allies. The “second world” was the USSR and its allies. The “third world” included all the countries that didn’t take sides. It may have negative connotations, most of the countries in that third group are still poor after all. However, I can’t call that racist.

Anonymous Coward says:

I tried Telegram some time ago. I don’t know if it’s still the case, but when I was on I noticed that each group had it’s own admins and moderators. Admittedly a few were active but many were passive. Given the disclosure of how few employees Telegram actually has it looks like content moderation responsibilities were delegated by Telegram with very little support or oversight.

I also encountered at least one bot on Telegram that would bounce any request to join a group from “known uploader of (illegal porn)”. The fact that this bot was active on Telegram means that they were making an effort to police their platform from such material, given some of the recent allegations.

Holistic Tanuki (profile) says:

Re:

I am a heavy user of Telegram and might be able to clarify the situation a little. Group chats in Telegram are indeed not end-to-end encrypted, which potentially gives Telegram the ability to oversee the content. The amount of content shared is obviously quite high, with many groups from different backgrounds: schools, work colleagues, families. It’s really popular in the CIS.

Any user can press on a post they find offensive and report it for harm, violence, and a few other categories. The report doesn’t go to the group admin but rather directly to the Telegram team. However, I believe that the simplest explanation for missing some things is that their team is overloaded. Frankly, I was banned once or twice. I don’t believe I violated any rules or laws; I am not a war proponent or anything like that. I tried to get in contact with them to get unbanned or at least to know the reason, but I wasn’t able to do so.

So yes, I do believe that not just a few requests from law enforcement could have been made but weren’t.

However, my major grievance with giving any keys to law enforcement is that during the heavy protests in the last few years in my home country, Telegram became crucial for sharing information, as it was not controlled by the regime. With adequate precautions, it was possible to not leave too much of a trace and to maintain a reasonable level of safety. The siloviki weren’t able to breach security or read private groups and/or chats despite having close ties to the Russian FSB. To this day, they still have to first detain you and then go through your device, looking for the information you have stored.

I do not condone any illegal activity being carried out over Telegram, and should Durov be found guilty of direct involvement in such things, it would be the right thing to take action. Still, the risk of having people lose the only tool proven over the years to be safe enough would be a huge blow to the democratic movement in our country. In my opinion, cracking open or even closing down such an important tool would be a very nefarious thing for the EU to do, as this would influence not just freedom of speech but also the basics of safety for many people living in authoritarian regimes.

Anonymous Coward says:

A link worth following and a comment

“On top of that, the “encrypted” messaging is not enabled by default, only works in one-to-one communications (any group messaging is unencrypted) and is quite hard to actually turn on. In other words, the vast, vast, vast majority of content on Telegram is not encrypted and can be seen by the company.”

That’s from above — the original has a link in it that contains excellent analysis by Matthew Green, and I think reading through that is a prerequisite to understanding what Telegram is and isn’t.

Now to the comment: the quoted sentence is true as far as it goes. But it’s worth noting that if Telegram can see the vast, vast, vast majority of content then that includes (a) Telegram employees (b) anyone who’s hacked a Telegram employee’s account (c) anyone who’s hacked Telegram’s servers (d) anyone who’s running the real servers behind Telegram’s presence (e) anyone with access to the network(s) inside and connected to Telegram’s presence and (f) anyone who’s managed to bribe or extort Telegram staff into providing access.

That’s a lot of people, and some of those people wield significant expertise, power, and money, and they’re highly motivated: Russia would certainly like all Ukrainian traffic and vice versa. So given this almost-complete lack of encryption, given Telegram’s tiny staff (38 engineers at last report), and given the vulnerable position they’ve placed themselves in, I really, REALLY doubt that all of that message content is secure and/or private in any sense of the words “secure” and “private”.

Koby (profile) says:

"Complicit"

The Tribunal Judiciaire de Paris (Judicial Court of Paris) put out a press release this morning (8/26), listing the charges.

https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/75/communiques-de-presse-1

Assuming the translation of the pdf document are accurate, they use the word “complicit” together with all of the bad things. In other words, the original speculation is true. They arrested him, not because he’s a terrorist or drug trafficker, but because he the French authorities didn’t get the answers that they wanted.

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

Arianity says:

But in general it took a pretty hands off approach. That alone should never lead to criminal charges, though.

If it’s being done in a way that is intentionally to foil law enforcement requests, then it probably should.

Even ignoring law enforcement demands seems like it should lead to civil penalties before reaching criminal charges.

I mean, if they’re breaking the law in ignoring law enforcement, criminal charges seems the appropriate tool.

But it’s also possible that it just said “fuck it” and decided to ignore legal demands because they didn’t care.

I thought we could rule this out? Platforms simply do not do this, we were told.

The issue, which has been explained to administration officials (and Congress) over and over again, is that platforms do take responsibility for the content they share, otherwise users and advertisers (especially) head for the exits.

Anonymous Coward says:

We need an accurate translation of the charges

I’ve read them in French and can parse most of them, but unfortunately my translation skills aren’t great AND I’m not familiar with French law. But they seem to indicate that he’s charged with facilitating illegal transactions, child pornography, drug dealing, malware, and fraud. There’s also a clause that seems to indicate that he refused to cooperate with lawful intercepts.

As I said on the Subject line, we need an accurate translation, and mine may not be. But after reading this document, my guess is that the French thought long and hard about the consequences of arresting a Russian billionaire before they did it, and that they think they can make the case stick.

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