Omegle Shuts Down After Facing Ruinous Lawsuits; This Won’t Magically Solve People Being Awful Online

from the why-230-matters dept

Omegle has been a controversial service. While Chatroulette got all the attention as a service to randomly connect with video to others online, it grew fast and burned out fast. Omegle was basically the same service, but had a slower ramp up, and became quite popular over the last few years. Except that now Omegle is dead.

Image

While many people will talk about the awful content they encountered on these services, it also enabled some really fun and interesting interactions. I have a friend who was an amateur magician, who would use Omegle as a great way to practice card tricks in front of many, many people in a short period of time. Some others created some really fun content using Omegle, like SomethingAboutChickens, fooling various people they’d connect to with camera tricks.

But, of course, everyone will focus on the controversies. The internet is not just full of good, wholesome fun. There are problematic people online, and so much of the debates over the past few years was whose responsibility should that be. Law firms began to prey on Omegle over the last few years, filing a series of lawsuits, and using it as an attack on Section 230. However, as we noted, getting rid of Section 230 wouldn’t get rid of awful people online, but it would limit the number of services willing to connect people.

We filed an amicus brief in one of the Omegle cases, and the at least some courts seemed to recognize that it made no sense to blame Omegle for problematic actions by its users. But, still, lawsuits are incredibly stressful. Especially for small companies. And the lawsuits also brought with them a lot more attention and scrutiny… and just general anger. I blame the lawyers bringing these terrible cases, who went straight to the media to promote a false story about how Omegle was deliberately and purposely enabling bad people to do bad things. And it seems that all of those attacks took their toll on Leif K-Brooks, the founder of Omegle. Apparently, part of the agreement to settle one of these lawsuits is what made K-Brooks shut down the site, even as he talks about how much effort he put into keeping the site safe:

I believe in a responsibility to be a “good Samaritan”, and to implement reasonable measures to fight crime and other misuse. That is exactly what Omegle did. In addition to the basic safety feature of anonymity, there was a great deal of moderation behind the scenes, including state-of-the-art AI operating in concert with a wonderful team of human moderators. Omegle punched above its weight in content moderation, and I’m proud of what we accomplished.

Omegle’s moderation even had a positive impact beyond the site. Omegle worked with law enforcement agencies, and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, to help put evildoers in prison where they belong. There are “people” rotting behind bars right now thanks in part to evidence that Omegle proactively collected against them, and tipped the authorities off to.

All that said, the fight against crime isn’t one that can ever truly be won. It’s a never-ending battle that must be fought and re-fought every day; and even if you do the very best job it is possible for you to do, you may make a sizable dent, but you won’t “win” in any absolute sense of that word. That’s heartbreaking, but it’s also a basic lesson of criminology, and one that I think the vast majority of people understand on some level. Even superheroes, the fictional characters that our culture imbues with special powers as a form of wish fulfillment in the fight against crime, don’t succeed at eliminating crime altogether.

In recent years, it seems like the whole world has become more ornery. Maybe that has something to do with the pandemic, or with political disagreements. Whatever the reason, people have become faster to attack, and slower to recognize each other’s shared humanity. One aspect of this has been a constant barrage of attacks on communication services, Omegle included, based on the behavior of a malicious subset of users.

To an extent, it is reasonable to question the policies and practices of any place where crime has occurred. I have always welcomed constructive feedback; and indeed, Omegle implemented a number of improvements based on such feedback over the years. However, the recent attacks have felt anything but constructive. The only way to please these people is to stop offering the service. Sometimes they say so, explicitly and avowedly; other times, it can be inferred from their act of setting standards that are not humanly achievable. Either way, the net result is the same.

He accurately notes the real loss here, which is that it becomes ever more difficult for people to connect with others online:

Omegle is the direct target of these attacks, but their ultimate victim is you: all of you out there who have used, or would have used, Omegle to improve your lives, and the lives of others. When they say Omegle shouldn’t exist, they are really saying that you shouldn’t be allowed to use it; that you shouldn’t be allowed to meet random new people online. That idea is anathema to the ideals I cherish – specifically, to the bedrock principle of a free society that, when restrictions are imposed to prevent crime, the burden of those restrictions must not be targeted at innocent victims or potential victims of crime.

Consider the idea that society ought to force women to dress modestly in order to prevent rape. One counter-argument is that rapists don’t really target women based on their clothing; but a more powerful counter-argument is that, irrespective of what rapists do, women’s rights should remain intact. If society robs women of their rights to bodily autonomy and self-expression based on the actions of rapists – even if it does so with the best intentions in the world – then society is practically doing the work of rapists for them.

Fear can be a valuable tool, guiding us away from danger. However, fear can also be a mental cage that keeps us from all of the things that make life worth living. Individuals and families must be allowed to strike the right balance for themselves, based on their own unique circumstances and needs. A world of mandatory fear is a world ruled by fear – a dark place indeed.

I’ve done my best to weather the attacks, with the interests of Omegle’s users – and the broader principle – in mind. If something as simple as meeting random new people is forbidden, what’s next? That is far and away removed from anything that could be considered a reasonable compromise of the principle I outlined. Analogies are a limited tool, but a physical-world analogy might be shutting down Central Park because crime occurs there – or perhaps more provocatively, destroying the universe because it contains evil. A healthy, free society cannot endure when we are collectively afraid of each other to this extent.

And this is the case with Section 230 in place, which is designed to try to protect companies from these kinds of attacks and to note, within the law, that the responsibility and liability applies directly to the parties who are doing the illegal stuff, not the companies who are giving people a place to connect and to speak.

This situation is actually a perfect example of why Section 230 is so important, and why it needs to remain strong and in place. When it’s working properly, it gets these kinds of legal attacks tossed out quickly. Unfortunately, with Omegle being targeted as a potential method of breaking 230, it took much more effort.

But, again, it’s important to note what K-Brooks was pointing out in this post. Like Backpage and Craigslist before it (both earlier attacks on 230), these companies bent over backwards to work with law enforcement and to help bring the actual criminals to justice. And they still got attacked. And, yet, the bad people are still doing bad stuff… often on sites less interested in being helpful in stopping criminals.

Omegle’s demise is sad for many reasons, but it also really demonstrates just how pathetically counter-productive these attacks are. These attacks destroy the good actors in the space, and give more power to the bad actors. And that’s a real problem.

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Comments on “Omegle Shuts Down After Facing Ruinous Lawsuits; This Won’t Magically Solve People Being Awful Online”

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51 Comments
This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

That idea is anathema to the ideals I cherish – specifically, to the bedrock principle of a free society that, when restrictions are imposed to prevent crime, the burden of those restrictions must not be targeted at innocent victims or potential victims of crime.

And there, in a nutshell, is the primary problem with a majority of “think of the children” laws and initiatives.

Anonymous Coward says:

Omegle’s death ain’t really that sad. People saw all of the ‘epic Internets for the win!’ Omegle stuff via other websites and they didn’t have to go randomly through creeps and shit to find it.

The owner’s “their ultimate victim is you, dear reader!” appeal rings hollow with how there were an infinite number of better places to meet people online before Omegle, and there still are an infinite number of places to meet people after Omegle has died. Such overdramatic language for a site where people had to sit through dozens of trolls and people stimulating themselves on camera to find maybe one good conversation.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

The owner’s “their ultimate victim is you, dear reader!” appeal rings hollow

It doesn’t to me. Consider how people have been funneled into a handful of social interaction networks, many of which don’t even interact with one another. Now consider what would happen if the kinds of lawsuits that felled Omegle were to fell those same networks: The nightmare of the Internet turning into a one-way broadcast medium would be that much closer to coming true.

No, bringing back Omegle will not “save the Internet”. But killing Omegle has sure as hell put down another brick on the road to destroying the Internet as we know it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Consider how people have been funneled into a handful of social interaction networks

That’s it right there. OP-AC, you allude to an “infinite” number of other platforms as being as useful as Omegle, but the fact is, you and your family, and your friends, and their friends, all of you have said to one another “What, you aren’t using Brand X? What’s wrong with you?! That’s where I hang out with my friends, and if you want to be my friend, then you need to use Brand X too!!”

Which brings us to a numbers game. Small platforms, regardless of quality, don’t attract media attention for the simple reason that the greater public is comfortable not knowing about them in the first place.

And this also explains why Mastodon in general has trouble unseating exTwitter, the most toxic platform ever to be given server space and backbone connectivity. It all boils down to name brand recognition, and influences by known users, meaning family and friends. I predict that their day will come, but it won’t be this year, and probably not next year either. Look at how long it took Facebook to unseat MySpace for a good example of herd mentality.

TKnarr (profile) says:

Re:

Those other sites, though, filter the people they’ll connect you with. Mostly that’s a good thing. But not universally. Omegle did what the other sites don’t: it shuffled the deck of users and dealt you a random card. No filters, no algorithms, the deck was the entire userbase. That’s the only way to break out of the bubble imposed by filters and attempts to connect you only to people you’d be interested in.

Yeah, it means you get to meet the creeps and arsewipes of the world too. That’s just a reminder that they exist, not being reminded won’t make them magically not exist.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
TKnarr (profile) says:

I think K-Brooks hits the nail on the head when he talks about what the people attacking Omegle are doing as being anathema to his principles. There’s a group of people who don’t want you to be able to freely decide who you associate with, what you say, what you think, what you believe. They want to control society and force everyone to only associate with the “right sort”, to only believe the right things, always with them deciding what’s the “right thing”. They attack the sites that try to cooperate with law enforcement first as a deliberate tactic: those sites provide an argument that you don’t need to shut down and restrict everything just to get the bad guys, and so those sites absolutely have to go. Once the only sites left are the ones who won’t cooperate, it’s much easier to make the argument that they should be wiped off the Internet completely. That’s their ultimate goal: eliminate anything that doesn’t agree with their worldview. Dealing with them is, unfortunately, a never-ending struggle because there’s always more of them and they don’t give up. They can’t give up, in fact. Allowing anybody who doesn’t follow their world-view to exist is, in their world, a mortal sin in and of itself and would condemn them themselves to their version of Hell.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

There’s a group of people who don’t want you to be able to freely decide who you associate with, what you say, what you think, what you believe. They want to control society and force everyone to only associate with the “right sort”, to only believe the right things, always with them deciding what’s the “right thing”.

This reads a lot like alt-right screeds that people make when bad people get the boot from projects for unconscionable statements and behavior. I saw a lot of this kinda stuff when Gina Carano got the boot from The Mandalorian after she went full mask off.

Who is this “group of people” you refer to and what do they believe? Any examples?

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yeah, conservative Christian evangelicals love the “them-or-us” mindset to a fault. It’s what makes them end up in the kind of echo chambers where their horrid opinions are the only ones they ever hear, which makes those opinions get even worse as they become more extreme.

Of course, that isn’t limited to conservative Christian evangelicals, though you’ll find a lot of overlap between them and, say, anti-trans activists who’ve turned what might’ve been genuine concerns about trans people and society into an obsession with people’s genitals that make them seem downright insane. Look at J.K. Rowling’s Twitter feed: It’s almost all anti-trans stuff these days, to the point where she is actively damaging the viability of the Harry Potter brand.

(None of this is to say that liberals/progressives aren’t guilty of this shit at times. But you’re more likely to find it happening within conservative circles because a belief in conservative ideology requires a regressive mindset, a lack of shame, and a lack of internal dialogue⁠—all of which tends to result in “them-or-us” thinking.)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

to the point where she is actively damaging the viability of the Harry Potter brand.

Hogwarts Legacy was all over the news a while ago with how it was constantly topping sales charts and had an explosive number of players according to SteamCharts. It’s accrued about a billion dollars in total sales profit.

I would say “damaging the brand” is a stretch.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Consider the following, then.

The winners of the 41st Annual Golden Joystick Awards were revealed last week; not one of them was Hogwarts Legacy. In fact, the game wasn’t nominated in any category⁠—and the same can be said in regards to the upcoming Game Awards. For all the bluster of the game’s supposed financial success, none of it led to any long-term impact in both gaming and the Harry Potter franchise. Nothing saved the game from being largely ignored less than a month after its release.

Did whoever published the game make shitloads of money from it? Sure. But did it help rehabilitate a brand that has been tarnished for years, and will continue to be tarnished for years to come, by the bigotry of its creator? Hell no. That’s how I know Rowling has damaged the Harry Potter brand.

Rocky says:

Re: Re:

This reads a lot like alt-right screeds that people make when bad people get the boot from projects for unconscionable statements and behavior.

Then you didn’t actually read and understand what TKnarr wrote, he specifically wrote “There’s a group of people who don’t want you to be able to freely decide who you associate with

Ie, this “group of people” want to force themselves upon others by taking away other peoples choice in who they want to associate with. And this “group of people” are the ones that scream like stuck pigs when an owner of a site shuts them down because said owner have rules and standards for the site’s usage, plus the fact the owner doesn’t want to be associated with this “group of people”. It’s also why this “group of people” use the words “I have been censored” or “viewpoint discrimination” because they don’t want to recognize the fact that they are a bunch of disingenuous assholes with an entitlement problem.

It is also this “group of people” who think repealing or changing Section 230 will allow them being disingenuous assholes with zero repercussions in the future which is one fat fever-dream because the reality is that they’ll have even less choices of sites were their shit will be welcome.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Then you didn’t actually read and understand what TKnarr wrote, he specifically wrote “There’s a group of people who don’t want you to be able to freely decide who you associate with”

When someone says “There’s a group of people who don’t want you to freely decide who you associate with”, the person who says that is usually an alt-righter angry that their favorite bigot was taken off of a project because said person was a bigot.

It’s the kind of language I saw when Disney rightfully threw Gina Carano off of The Mandalorian, and I saw it a lot when GamerGate losers raised their hackles at progressive authors and creators in games media who wanted the industry to clean up its act with how it depicts women in games.

I’ve never seen “There’s a group of people who don’t want you to be able to freely decide who you associate with” used to refer to far-right people.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:2

When someone says [ . . . ], the person who says that is usually an alt-righter angry that their favorite bigot was taken off of a project because said person was a bigot

That’s because you wanted to attribute a specific wording without actually parsing what was said. Don’t do that.

It’s the kind of language I saw when Disney rightfully threw Gina Carano off of The Mandalorian, and I saw it a lot when GamerGate losers raised their hackles at progressive authors and creators in games media who wanted the industry to clean up its act with how it depicts women in games.

So? One of the “features” the English language has, is that it allows you to say something in so many varied ways which is why I find it strange that you attribute the wording used to a specific group of people when TKnarr was perfectly clear who he referred to for the given context.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:4

I don’t defend bigots, I object to people normalizing bigoted speech to such degree that they jump to conclusions just because someone says something similar to what a bigot would say but in actuality is the opposite.

Accepting that normalizing means the bigots can take over the meaning of words while at the same time make other speakers leery of using those words – which is win for the bigots.

So tell me, who is actually defending bigots? Those who say “don’t say that, that looks like what bigot would say” which strengthens the ability of bigots to dominate the discourse, or those who point out that bigots doesn’t have a monopoly on words and that people should take the time to actually understand what is said.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

When someone says […], the person who says that is usually an alt-righter angry that their favorite bigot was taken off of a project because said person was a bigot is part of the comment you attacked, thereby defending bigots in general, and then turning around and saying that people are allowed to say the kind of speech you personally attacked another commenter for saying only makes your previous actions hypocritical.

Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

When someone says “There’s a group of people who don’t want you to freely decide who you associate with”, the person who says that is usually an alt-righter angry that their favorite bigot was taken off of a project because said person was a bigot.

You’re saying you’ve gullibly fallen for the far-right’s projection.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“There’s a group of people who don’t want you to freely decide who you associate with”, the person who says that is usually an alt-righter angry that their favorite bigot was taken off of a project because said person was a bigot.

And they’re lying to you. If a movie studio makes a decision to keep working with a bigot, it’s making a decision of association⁠—and like all decisions, it has consequences, which I assume the studio was willing to shoulder because of its decision.

You’re more than free to associate with whomever you want. But any decision you make in that regard will always alienate someone. Who are you willing to alienate: people who are bigots and assholes, or people who aren’t?

I’ve never seen “There’s a group of people who don’t want you to be able to freely decide who you associate with” used to refer to far-right people.

Then you fell for their bullshit.

TKnarr (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Well, what group(s) of people don’t want anyone accepting that transgender individuals exist, that everyone must fit into the specific gender binary that group defines? What group(s) of people don’t want anyone to express any religious preference but theirs? That do not want women making choices about their own reproductive systems even if that means finding ways to get around their own state constitution? Who want drag shows shut down completely so that nobody who doesn’t have a problem with drag can enjoy them? Who don’t want any discussion of systemic racism occurring in universities, or anywhere for that matter?

LostInLoDOS (profile) says:

Morality police

Actual real issues on Omegle were almost non -existent.
Less than one percent of one percent of one percent. That’s, 0001.
That’s not hyperbole, it’s fact. Even aspects of legality are moral issues, not abuse issues. People, of all ages, used the service as they did, willingly.
That the nanny state (left and right) keeps trying to fight against the reality of what people want to do, is proof of a failed state.

It’s a messy, and dirty, issue, but the fact is it was (within a rounding error), 100% consensual in every aspect. From music to talk to porn to gaming to fish tanks.

Pervert Pete was funny as hell. “Wanna see my weenier” hot dog time. And that Dew guy playing wicked music.
The Angry [slur] girl who shredded FPS games topless while screaming in Italian like a mythical Amazon. (She was kind of scary thoug)

I don’t know if the report button was actually useful. But let’s not pretend people didn’t know what they were broadcasting. Yes, there was “illegal” content. Like any platform. Streaming movies, children doing bad things, copy right issues, and in very rare occasions, actual physical crime. Like every other platform.

I wonder, with this loss, what happens to the Omegle stars. That’s the real ponderance here. Many will move to YouTube I guess, or some other streaming service where their freedoms are limited by moral content codes. This was a platform that put freedom first. From deep conversations to cyber sex and everything in between. And beyond.
More than any other service, it was about being yourself.

The world looses a beacon of freedom here.

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