As I have now said about a billion times, I agree, he has the total and utter freedom to burn whatever he likes when he likes bla bla bla, so yes, nice. He burnt a flower.
BOOM.
Point made.
Which was, I believe, that he has the freedom to burn a paper flower.
Shame - I am agreeing with you, but you seem to be caught up in a dysfunctional typing orgasm. Might I suggest that reading forum replies in future will improve the MTBF of your keyboard, while increasing support for your point of view.
(I am slowly learning not to Rage Quit & Blargh. I hope you are impressed.)
/me remembers officers who treat arrest like sexual conquest
I remember a kid who ripped up and threw a Bible across my school playground once; I was a pretty hefty hand-clapping fundamentalist back then, and it was the talk of the school.
Were that to happen to a Quran in an Islamic country, he would have been severely punished. Why this has happened in the UK to some bloke burning a poppy I just don't understand.
OK so hopefully I've replied enough to re's above so you believe I wasn't going on about whether or not he was morally right to burn a bit of plastic. Whatever it was he wanted to say, however he wanted to say it, that's up to him.
Also, the last line was a bit too pro-police in this instance, but hopefully you'll see from above that I don't think the police powers used in this instance were appropriate.
So finally, on the "Free Speech isn't an excuse to be stupid" which seemingly is the source of confusion:
I think he displayed a level of ... idiocy (??) ... in picking a bit of plastic that symbolises (for everyone) consideration of war (was this one or that one was right or not?) and memory of friends (are they in a better place or have they become an installation at IKEA?) while also raising money to support people who need care and support because of war (whether or not it was right bla bla bla).
I completely agree; he ought to have the freedom to do it.
If he wants to burn it, let him : it's his right to express himself freely, openly, and to make whatever democratic point he wants to, where he wants to, wearing whatever clothes he wants to.
Hell he could shove it up his ass if he wants to.
I simply think burning a poppy is like... well... burning the keys to a house to moan about the rent. I just felt it's the wrong (NOT MORALLY WRONG) symbol.
But then again, doing it got all our attention, so maybe it was right after all.
Agreed - my line about charity was a misnomer: attempting to describe the quality of the symbol, not the functional usefulness of it.
You made me consider what point he was trying to make by burning the poppy in the first place; which is not something I was trying to attack or describe or argue against by making the comment.
My provocation was one around the logic he used in burning the poppy; not whether or not the police action was warranted.
For the record, I think police powers are entirely unbalanced when the arresting officer / force is corrupted by power. I know BTP officers who use Terrorist Act powers to arrest people for nonsense, and I've met high ranking officers who also "abuse" (I'm sure they'd say "use") their powers in seemingly "weird" ways.
This is a weird way.
If my comment sounded like I was sticking up for the police (yes, the last line probably didn't help) then apologies - that's not what I was attempting to provoke at all: rather that the poppy is a silly symbol to have done it with.
Maybe stupidly, I thought the Poppy is a good way to remember people, to think about war, to be thankful we can speak when we want to and say what we want to without fear, and to raise money for charities that support families left without sons, mums... whoever they might be.
That is all.
No support for the arrest.
No support for war.
And not a concentration camp based argument in site.
No point trying to be made about charity losing out or not; simply that I don't believe "poppies" are in and of themselves a negative symbol. To clarify, I do not believe wearing poppies ought to be done to say war was right, or that we should have more wars so we can sell more poppies.
And agreed, if a guy wants to burn a plastic / paper poppy, it's his property and so be it.
Veterans worked, fought, and died for my freedom; including my freedom to walk around with a talking penis that shouts racist fart jokes at old ladies.
However, no matter how cool that would make me, I would just be an idiot. A stupid, penis-shouting idiot.
The poppy symbolises the sacrifices our friends and families made and make for liberty, freedom, and yes, Free Speech. Its sale raises charity money for war veterans of all ages. It's not party-centred, it's not pro- or anti-war; it's about memory and gratefulness.
The "irony" the guy doesn't get is that he's burning, destroying, expunging the symbol he's supposed to be using to contemplate and be thankful for that freedom. The paradox being that he's stupid enough to have burnt a symbol that enables him to be free enough to destroy it. If he had understood what the thing was actually for, perhaps he would have made a massive poppy and stuck it in his back garden, proud that Freedom is worth fighting for, that it is important.
Instead, the dick burnt it.
Thank GOD the police have removed another low-IQ freak from the voting pool.
Techdirt has not posted any stories submitted by amillionbytes.
Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm confused
Yes indeed.
Bolstered by our encounter, I am tempted to raise the topic of music downloads, but fear that may be a bridge too far.
:P
Re: Re: I'm confused
As I have now said about a billion times, I agree, he has the total and utter freedom to burn whatever he likes when he likes bla bla bla, so yes, nice. He burnt a flower.
BOOM.
Point made.
Which was, I believe, that he has the freedom to burn a paper flower.
Re: Re: I'm confused
Shame - I am agreeing with you, but you seem to be caught up in a dysfunctional typing orgasm. Might I suggest that reading forum replies in future will improve the MTBF of your keyboard, while increasing support for your point of view.
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Poppy
What arrest powers were used?
Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm confused
(I am slowly learning not to Rage Quit & Blargh. I hope you are impressed.)
/me remembers officers who treat arrest like sexual conquest
I remember a kid who ripped up and threw a Bible across my school playground once; I was a pretty hefty hand-clapping fundamentalist back then, and it was the talk of the school.
Were that to happen to a Quran in an Islamic country, he would have been severely punished. Why this has happened in the UK to some bloke burning a poppy I just don't understand.
Re: Re: I'm confused
Nope - not at all. Neither fatcats, politicians, veterans, me, or you set fire to a bit of plastic.
Re: Re: I'm confused
OK so hopefully I've replied enough to re's above so you believe I wasn't going on about whether or not he was morally right to burn a bit of plastic. Whatever it was he wanted to say, however he wanted to say it, that's up to him.
Also, the last line was a bit too pro-police in this instance, but hopefully you'll see from above that I don't think the police powers used in this instance were appropriate.
So finally, on the "Free Speech isn't an excuse to be stupid" which seemingly is the source of confusion:
I think he displayed a level of ... idiocy (??) ... in picking a bit of plastic that symbolises (for everyone) consideration of war (was this one or that one was right or not?) and memory of friends (are they in a better place or have they become an installation at IKEA?) while also raising money to support people who need care and support because of war (whether or not it was right bla bla bla).
That is all. >.
Re: Re: I'm confused
I completely agree; he ought to have the freedom to do it.
If he wants to burn it, let him : it's his right to express himself freely, openly, and to make whatever democratic point he wants to, where he wants to, wearing whatever clothes he wants to.
Hell he could shove it up his ass if he wants to.
I simply think burning a poppy is like... well... burning the keys to a house to moan about the rent. I just felt it's the wrong (NOT MORALLY WRONG) symbol.
But then again, doing it got all our attention, so maybe it was right after all.
Re: Re: I'm confused
(PS I'm a sad Tarquin Guardian reader, and the fact you thought I was a Daily Mail Twat made me need vodka)
Re: Re: I'm confused
Agreed - my line about charity was a misnomer: attempting to describe the quality of the symbol, not the functional usefulness of it.
You made me consider what point he was trying to make by burning the poppy in the first place; which is not something I was trying to attack or describe or argue against by making the comment.
My provocation was one around the logic he used in burning the poppy; not whether or not the police action was warranted.
For the record, I think police powers are entirely unbalanced when the arresting officer / force is corrupted by power. I know BTP officers who use Terrorist Act powers to arrest people for nonsense, and I've met high ranking officers who also "abuse" (I'm sure they'd say "use") their powers in seemingly "weird" ways.
This is a weird way.
If my comment sounded like I was sticking up for the police (yes, the last line probably didn't help) then apologies - that's not what I was attempting to provoke at all: rather that the poppy is a silly symbol to have done it with.
Maybe stupidly, I thought the Poppy is a good way to remember people, to think about war, to be thankful we can speak when we want to and say what we want to without fear, and to raise money for charities that support families left without sons, mums... whoever they might be.
That is all.
No support for the arrest.
No support for war.
And not a concentration camp based argument in site.
Re: Re: Re: I'm confused
(Too much coffee --> Too many Submits)
Being arrested does indeed not remove you from the voting pool, and that line was entirely sleep-deprived drivel.
Re: Re: I'm confused
Agreed.
Re: Re: I'm confused
No point trying to be made about charity losing out or not; simply that I don't believe "poppies" are in and of themselves a negative symbol. To clarify, I do not believe wearing poppies ought to be done to say war was right, or that we should have more wars so we can sell more poppies.
And agreed, if a guy wants to burn a plastic / paper poppy, it's his property and so be it.
I'm confused
Free Speech isn't an excuse to be stupid.
Veterans worked, fought, and died for my freedom; including my freedom to walk around with a talking penis that shouts racist fart jokes at old ladies.
However, no matter how cool that would make me, I would just be an idiot. A stupid, penis-shouting idiot.
The poppy symbolises the sacrifices our friends and families made and make for liberty, freedom, and yes, Free Speech. Its sale raises charity money for war veterans of all ages. It's not party-centred, it's not pro- or anti-war; it's about memory and gratefulness.
The "irony" the guy doesn't get is that he's burning, destroying, expunging the symbol he's supposed to be using to contemplate and be thankful for that freedom. The paradox being that he's stupid enough to have burnt a symbol that enables him to be free enough to destroy it. If he had understood what the thing was actually for, perhaps he would have made a massive poppy and stuck it in his back garden, proud that Freedom is worth fighting for, that it is important.
Instead, the dick burnt it.
Thank GOD the police have removed another low-IQ freak from the voting pool.