NSA Says It Doesn't Spy On Americans As Obama Administration Defends Letting NSA Spy On Americans

from the how-about-that dept

Following the news that broke last night that the federal government was getting full records of all Verizon phone calls, the Obama administration is now trying to defend this move, by claiming they can break the law because terrorism is scary:
But the Obama administration, while declining to comment on the specific order, said the practice was "a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States".
Uh, that's really not the point. Under that standard, there is no Constitution. There are lots of things that could be very useful tools in stopping crime and attacks, but we don't allow them because they violate the public's rights. We don't allow the FBI to walk up and down the street, enter every house and search it for weapons, for example. While that might be a "critical tool" in stopping the use of those weapons, it's also incredibly unconstitutional on a whole variety of levels. Saying that it's okay to ignore the 4th Amendment entirely because there are terrorists out there is no excuse at all.

And, of course, as we noted last night, there's nothing new about this. Already it's been confirmed that the order to Verizon was not a special case, but rather a "renewal of an ongoing practice." Senator Feinstein has admitted that this has been going on consistently for the past seven years, and this latest leak is just the "renewal" for another three months. And if anyone thinks that only Verizon got this order and has been doing this for the past seven years, you're not paying attention. As we've noted, we've had multiple whistleblowers who have flat out said that this was happening for years. Mark Klein, who worked at AT&T, revealed in 2006 that he'd helped hook up NSA machines to record all data flowing over the AT&T network. Meanwhile former NSA employee William Binney also blew the whistle on this activity from the NSA side. We've known all of this for years... and no one seemed to care until now.

Even more incredible, is that the NSA has no problem directly lying about all of this. Because last week, before all of this came out, and before the Obama administration 'fessed up to using this "critical tool," General Keith Alexander, the head of the NSA, ridiculously claimed the following:
"The great irony is we're the only ones not spying on the American people," he quipped.
Just days after that was said, we have written proof that this claim is 100% false. So, now, what do we do about it?


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    icon
    Jeff (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 9:00am

    The American public still won't care

    Because...

    Look!!

    The Bachelor Dancing with the Stars on a Desert Survivor is on the TV!!!

    /s

    We get the gov't we deserve.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 9:58am

    So, now, what do we do about it?

    Rope.

    Lots of rope.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:05am

    Re: So, now, what do we do about it?

    * click *

    * whoosh *

    * thump *

    * ouch *



    ...too much rope.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:05am

    Just storing the data

    Technically, the FBI are the ones who were spying on the Americans. ... Then the FBI gave that data to the NSA.

    There really needs to be consequences for giving misleading information, even if that info is not technically false.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:06am

    It doesn't spy on Americans?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Wind_%28code_name%29

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_6 41A

    So both of those things never happened?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    icon
    Akari Mizunashi (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:06am

    It's a good thing we can safely rely on the FBI. Not only do they not need FISA, they can actually stop terrorist attacks!

    Of course, after setting them up, it sure helps, but want to best this surveillance not only failed to prevent any terrorist attack but will have netted other parties in crimes unrelated to the order?

    Yeah, I wouldn't take this sucker's bet either.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    icon
    Christopher Best (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:07am

    Well, if our government actually worked like it was supposed to, Congress could hold that member of the Executive Branch in "Contempt of Congress" for lying to them... But Congress is totally cool with the NSA doing this, so that would be silly on their part.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    identicon
    Some Guy, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:11am

    I wouldn't be surprised if the NSA thinks it's actually telling the truth with its BS semantics. See, it all depends on what the definition of 'spying' is. They've been playing this semantic game with the facts for years. If anyone remembers the last NSA scandal, it was over their so-called "Echelon" system in the 90's. They were peeking at all our shit and lying about it years before 9/11. And as Masnick pointed out, it's only recently that anyone seems to care.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:12am

    Finally!

    Now when someone says "It's a free country, isn't it?" I can point to this and say 'Nope, this right here is the beginning of the end.'
    I'm going to have to make a note of all the incumbents and tick the other box when it comes time to try to vote these people out of power.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    out_of_the_blue, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:17am

    HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    "And, of course, as we noted last night, there's nothing new about this." ... Right, just a new version of Techdirt's motto.

    Where do you stand on Google's spying, Mike? -- You ask rhetorically, but here's an actual start on what to do: Noscript, removing Google from its whitelist, and hosts files to stop Google's parasites. -- And then, protest every new invasion by Google: Streetview, Glass, and then on to it being TAXED, just take away all the money its hiding offshore. There's nothing inevitable about stopping spying. Just remove your own tacit permission and force our servants to remove the special privileges in tax "law".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:18am

    Re: HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    Are you even capable of staying on topic?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    icon
    James (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:18am

    What can we do about it?

    If you're an American voter ...
    You can email your senators and congressman from their officially provided web sites. You can get there via:
    http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

    and

    http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

    It only takes a couple of minutes to let your voice be heard.
    Speak up.
    Better yet, call your elected representatives' offices on your cell phone, and inform the person who answers that the call is being logged by the NSA.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:21am

    Re: HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    Come on they aren't stealing phone records, they aren't taking anything YOU didn't give them, and they can't kill or send you to prison. Google is like the fly on my wall watching me eat dinner, unless I kill the fly it has every right to watch me eat.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:22am

    Every freedom given up hands our enemies a massive victory because that is exactly what they want. There is no justification for this kind of spying and the expense involved in carrying it out (I would love to see figures on that, by the way). It is amazing the flagrant disregard the US government have for their own citizens' rights and the Constitution.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    identicon
    wec, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:24am

    If this is scooping all records of everybody, doesn't this mean that NSA is also spying on our government(Congress, POTUS,Supreme Court Justices, etc)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:24am

    Re: HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    I re-read your comment a dozen or so times and still couldn't make sense of it. Either I'm not on enough drugs or you're on too many. One way or another, drugs are involved.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:26am

    Person of Interest is a more realistic show than people think.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    Wolfy, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:26am

    Sorry Zakida, those figures are classified.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:27am

    Re:

    So are my emails and phone calls

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:29am

    We don't allow the FBI to walk up and down the street, enter every house and search it for weapons, for example.

    Hey, NSA is just recording a bunch of digits, right? It's not your property, right? You can't prove they are doing anything improper with all of those digital files, can you? After, in a worst case scenario, those files are only being "shared", right?

    Suck it, losers.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    Brett, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:29am

    Skills To Get The Job Differ From Skills To Successfully Perform

    One of the fundamental problems with our government, of which there are many, is that the kind of people who won't abuse power generally aren't drawn to it.

    Another is that it takes a certain kind of person to win an election, and a different kind of person to effectively run that position.

    Of course there are exceptions to these such as, one could argue, Rand Paul and Ron Wyden. But the overall contrasts have guaranteed the ineffective type to remain as the decision makers.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:31am

    Re:

    You answered why no one in power ever tries to stop this shit from happening.

    They are all too scared of being outed for some shit they did...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:32am

    Re: HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    Stop taking bath salts. It's bad for your health.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    icon
    Rapnel (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:33am

    Only

    Look at that, it only took 225 years to completely and utterly fucking destroy the freedom experiment.

    We are now governed by a rogue government in its entirety. Welcome to tomorrow.

    Breaking: Obama, the leader of the free world, defends the indefensible. Fantastic.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:34am

    "The great irony is we're the only ones not spying on the American people," he quipped.

    Maybe, like Google- he doesn't consider aggregating data to be spying?

    Just days after that was said, we have written proof that this claim is 100% false. So, now, what do we do about it?

    Why don't you black out Techdirt for a month or two? That should get their attention.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:34am

    At this point I think it's safe to say Bin Laden won. As a result of 9/11 we're killing our democracy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:40am

    With all these spying, phone tapping going on how come they can't prevent all these bombs from going off in American soil ( I know we suck at espionage internationally, so I'm leaving it alone)?? Or are they just interested in people who downloaded and/or uploaded movies and/or music stuff??

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    icon
    TheLastCzarnian (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:40am

    Re: The American public still won't care

    Yeah, I've about had it with these comments. I'm sure that when you bring these topics up to your friends, they just ignore it. Oh, what was that? You don't bring these things up to your friends? Well, I guess YOU get the government YOU deserve.

    I'm the annoying guy who talks to anyone who will listen... and a lot of people do. Then when it finally makes its way to the mainstream media, it really has a chance to sink in. Maybe if more people who knew what was going on would talk about it, we wouldn't have the government we do.

    Thanks alot, Jeff.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    icon
    Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:44am

    Re: The American public still won't care

    Oh...the American public will care, squawk a bit...then come election time vote for the same (D) or (R) that has been screwing them over for decades.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    icon
    Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:49am

    Re: Re: The American public still won't care

    The sad thing is that you are labelled a tin-foil hatter only to be proven correct in a few years. This AM I had a few co-workers come to my office to get my reaction to this recent news. I'm surprised it took them this long to figure it out.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    icon
    Rapnel (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:51am

    Re:

    Wow, you're a fucking tool.

    Why don't you get a real job and, I don't know, fill in some pot holes?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    icon
    Spaceman Spiff (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:55am

    What the NSA really stands for

    NSA - The National Surveillance Agency. They changed the name, and never bothered to mention it to anyone... :rolleyes:

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:01am

    Re:

    "It's not your property, right?"

    Technically it may be Verizon's property (although I would argue that I still have some privacy interest in it.) That wouldn't change the fact that the government is getting court orders even though they have no individualized suspicion.

    This court order is ILLEGAL. I don't care what bills Congress has passed or what the FISA court has approved or even what the Supreme Court might have to say. It IS unconstitutional.

    "You can't prove they are doing anything improper with all of those digital files, can you?"

    Getting them in the first place was improper. But beyond that, we don't NEED to prove what they're doing with the information. We can repeal FISA because we want to.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:14am

    Obama 2016! 4 more years!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    icon
    zerostar83 (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:16am

    The Great Irony

    "The great irony is we're the only ones not spying on the American people...it's everyone else spying on the information we collected"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    icon
    Brent Ashley (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:17am

    Custom dictionaries

    Like the quote from Bill Clinton, "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

    They've borrowed the idea of pluggable dictionaries from the computer world.

    In the custom dictionary used by this administration, 'spying' translates to 'spying, unless we're doing it in which case we mean not spying'.

    With custom dictionaries, you can make your constitution and laws mean whatever you want them to. Just look at their definitions of

    Whistleblower: 'Traitor'
    Banker: 'Unimpeachably upstanding citizen'
    Torture: 'not the stuff we do'

    Oh, and by the way, you are not allowed access to their dictionary.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    icon
    TheLastCzarnian (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:17am

    Re: Skills To Get The Job Differ From Skills To Successfully Perform

    This is very true. You can take a look at children's shows to see the change over time. The Lone Ranger, Superman, Green Lantern, etc were all very modest. Now, the swaggering braggart is the norm. Iron Man, Spider Man, even Sonic the Hedgehog are all full of themselves. When these are your childhood heros, what do you think you will respect when you grow up?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:20am

    This rock, that I am holding in my hand is keeping away all of the lions, and tigers, and bears, oh my!

    /sigh

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    icon
    TheLastCzarnian (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:20am

    Re: Only

    Wasn't Nixon impeached for wiretapping a few conversations? What do they call it when you wiretap the entire world?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    icon
    Brent Ashley (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:21am

    Re: Custom dictionaries

    to be clear, it's not just this administration, the last one just had a different custom dictionary.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:25am

    Re: The American public still won't care

    Exactly. I have friends that say the just don't care anymore what the gov't does and know people that have no clue how the gov't (should)operates. Can't tell you the three branches of gov't but can tell you every name and thing about the latest pop artist and whats going on in every reality show.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:25am

    Re: Re:

    Odd. You Techdirtbags make the same sort of arguments surrounding digital theft. Doesn't seem you like them as much when the shoe is on the other foot.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    icon
    Violated (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:26am

    Do about it?

    Repeal the Patriot Act and disband the NSA of course.

    The Government only then needs to do two things. Keep a close eye on known terrorist groups then have a hotline where people can report anything suspicious that can be investigated.

    Very targeted you will find.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:27am

    Re: Re: Only

    Umm, it may have had more to do with the burglary at the Watergate. You may have heard of that before.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:30am

    Re: Re: The American public still won't care

    Exactly. I have friends that say the just don't care anymore what the gov't does and know people that have no clue how the gov't (should)operates. Can't tell you the three branches of gov't but can tell you every name and thing about the latest pop artist and whats going on in every reality show.

    This is why the current generation is so easy to ignore.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:30am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Ad-hom, how classy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:33am

    Re:

    This is the best you can come up with, really? It's just sad.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:34am

    According to Politico, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chair of the Senate intelligence committee, and Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.), the ranking Republican on the committee, acknowledged Thursday morning that this surveillance program has been going on for years and that Congress has been regularly briefed on it. "As far as I know, this is the exact three-month renewal of what has been in place for the past seven years," Feinstein noted. "This renewal is carried out by the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court] under the business records section of the Patriot Act. Therefore it is lawful. It has been briefed to Congress." Chambliss said, "This is nothing new. This has been going on for seven years…Every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this. To my knowledge there has not been any citizen who has registered a complaint. It has proved meritorious because we have collected significant information on bad guys, but only on bad guys, over the years." Yet several senators—Democratic and Republican—did say they were troubled by the program.

    Now re-read this: "To my knowledge there has not been any citizen who has registered a complaint" Of course there hasn't been a complaint registered, it is a secret program with a secret interpretation of the law.

    Our elected officials are idiots.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    icon
    Violated (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:40am

    Re: Skills To Get The Job Differ From Skills To Successfully Perform

    Well had I been President the US Administration would soon get butchered under abuse the law and lose your job. Maybe even violate the US Constitution or Bill of Rights in a serious way and get exiled.

    Like in this case I would be so "I don't care shit about your technicalities when you DON'T SPY ON ALL PEOPLE".

    Still the FBI/CIA could just deal with me like they did with JFK.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    icon
    ShellMG (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:41am

    Not just We The People

    Apparently Eric Holder's "justice" department may be spying on Congress...and possibly the SCOTUS too.

    http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/kirk-to-eric-holder-is-doj-spying-on-congress/article/253128 6/?page=1&referrer=http://t.co/TbRIhUztmc

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:44am

    Re:

    Bin Laden accomplished everything he said he wanted to accomplish, so yeah, he won.

    ...but we were killing our democracy well before 9/11.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    icon
    lucidrenegade (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:47am

    Re: Re: HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    Nah, he needs to take MORE bath salts. Maybe he'll overdose.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:59am

    Re: Re: Re:

    ...digital theft...

    Tell us all again the story of how ones and zeroes are "stolen." That's a classic.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:11pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    People are unjustly enriched by converting the property of others to their own use that is offered for sale. You get something of value without compensating the rightful owner. That he is not deprived of the property doesn't mitigate the unjust enrichment.

    How many times do you need to hear this? You can't be that stupid, can you?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:13pm

    Re: Re:

    This court order is ILLEGAL. I don't care what bills Congress has passed or what the FISA court has approved or even what the Supreme Court might have to say. It IS unconstitutional.

    Sorry numb nuts. You don't get to decide what is or isn't illegal. The courts do. Thanks for playing, though.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:13pm

    Re: Re: Only

    He's right. The illegal part about Watergate was the burglery not the recordings. Nixon recorded his own phone calls for his own records. There is no crime in that. Where they were important were once their existence was known, they were sought because they likely contained evidence that proved that Nixon was involved in the plan.

    However one of the purposes of the burglery was to install listening and wiretapping devices that would have been used to illegally spy on the Democratic Party but they failed and were caught which is what ultimately kicked off the whole scandal.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:23pm

    Re:

    Then Feinstein and Chambliss ought to resign.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Greggore, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:31pm

    nice government you have there

    I guess the USA can stop calling other countries in the world "undemocratic" now since it is the biggest farce of a democracy ever.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    Killer_Tofu (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:37pm

    Re: Finally!

    That means voting independent, because the Republicans and the Democrats are mostly the same in this regard. They both oppress the public for the sake of the corporations and rich.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    FM Hilton, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:41pm

    What to do, or not

    Get rid of the Patriot Act by any means possible.

    Get rid of the FISA court.

    Get rid of the NSA and all their enablers on the Senate Intelligence committee. That goes for the FBI and the CIA.

    Matter of fact, get rid of every single person who voted for the Patriot Act without reading it first. That means all of them are gone tomorrow.

    Open up all the past records of the phone companies and let them be sued the living shit by each and every 'victim' of this massive invasion of privacy by a government.

    Oh, yeah-almost forgot these:

    Sue the government for everything. Nobody spared. Even the President and the SC.

    Impeach any and all officials who conspired to allow this to happen-past and present. Prosecute those who broke the law. Imprison those who are convicted.

    Oh, and reinstate the Constitution while we're at it. Seems to be lying around here somewhere, isn't it?

    But never mind, it'll all blow away in 48 hours by a captive and toothless media instructed by their corporate masters to 'shut this story down, now."

    Then we're back on the right track.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 12:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    But that still doesn't make it "theft".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 1:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    But that still doesn't make it "theft".

    Not to those unable to come to terms with their own dishonest, criminal behavior. Way to rationalize John. I hope you feel better now.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 1:57pm

    This is why I use my tin hat defense, I know it does not really protect me but I feel better having it around.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 2:31pm

    Re: Re: HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    Really? You can't make the connection between what many perceive of Google spying on its users and the NSA spying on the public?

    The only issue that I have with OOTB's comment was "Just remove your own tacit permission..." (my emphasis) because the use of tacit here implies that the general population using Google's products are fully aware and fully comprehend the actual extent to the data that Google collects. Many of the people I know couldn't even tell you how a browser works or what the difference is between HTML and HTTP much less understand what data Google collects and how it could affect them. Therefore it isn't tacit for them, which makes them think that Google is spying on them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 2:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It's always funny when personal attacks like that are so hilariously mis-aimed. Not only do I not pirate (and therefore I'm not rationalizing anything), but I make my living creating software that tends to get pirated.

    (Hint: saying it's not theft is not saying that it's OK)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    icon
    BearGriz72 (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 3:27pm

    Re: (Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:34am)

    "Why don't you black out Techdirt for a month or two? That should get their attention."

    Pay up, or shut up!
    Insider Shop » ANTI-TECHDIRT
    $1,000,000 DAY WITHOUT TECHDIRT
    Shut us up for 24 hours
    $100,000,001 SILENCE TECHDIRT
    Act now: the price is going up!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 3:34pm

    Re: Re: Finally!

    I really, really want to vote for people who aren't D or R. The problem is that only a miniscule number of them rise to even the low standards of the two main parties.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 3:37pm

    Re: Re: Re: HEY, remember Google? It too is part of NSA spying.

    I do think that what Google does can be properly termed as "spying." The big difference, of course, is that I can opt out of Google's spying. I can't opt out of the government's spying. The two situations are not comparable.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 4:00pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, the moment the courts stop being honest and start breaking the law of the land (you know, the funny little Constitution thing?) people are allowed to use the Constitution as a justification to change the government through force of arms.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 6:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Great. We'll hook you up with the Nazi who posted his screed. on another topic.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    icon
    JMT (profile), Jun 6th, 2013 @ 6:52pm

    Re: Finally!

    "Nope, this right here is the beginning of the end."

    I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the middle actually.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 9:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wouldn't hurt to add the Declaration of Independence.

    IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. ...


    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    Starchild, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:21pm

    Stop NSA Spying on Americans...

    ...and similar government abuses and violations of the Constitution by supporting the Libertarian Party.

    Clearly this is not a new Obama administration practice. Both Democrats and Republicans have enabled it. The ruling two-party cartel is morally bankrupt.

    You can do something about it by withdrawing your support. Don't register as a Republican or Democrat. Stop voting for Republicans and Democrats. Join the leading alternative party that stands for civil liberties, economic freedom, peace, and upholding the Constitution -- www.LP.org

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:52pm

    Re: Re: Skills To Get The Job Differ From Skills To Successfully Perform

    Eh, Spider-Man isn't full of himself. In fact, he got titles like "loser" "nerd" etc.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:53pm

    Re:

    Thanks for posting these!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:55pm

    Re: Custom dictionaries

    I read a book by the director of a German intelligence agency and they talked about how the Soviets had redefined common words to suit their propaganda purposes. This sounds familiar.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 11:58pm

    I'm glad Alaska has an Independence Party. I'm going to be giving them a lot more attention from now on. The US is screwed up beyond belief.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    icon
    art guerrilla (profile), Jun 7th, 2013 @ 3:25am

    Re: The American public still won't care

    while i am alternately cynical and hopeful, i can not -today- let the statement "we get the gov't we deserve" go by unremarked...
    we don't 'deserve' the steaming pile of shit that we have for gummint, because the system which selects said gummint has been corrupted and perverted over time, such that our influence over it has become negligible...

    as i've stated on numerous occasions, it is *NOT* one person one vote, it is one dollar one vote... guess who has all the dollars ? it ain't the 99%...

    our power has been frittered away, and we are distracted by hot-button issues, bullshit shadows of terrorism, and impending global disasters, such that the reins of power are in the gnarled, greedy claws of the 1%...

    power NEVER devolves voluntarily...

    art guerrilla
    aka ann archy
    eof

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 7th, 2013 @ 6:38am

    Re: Re: (Anonymous Coward, Jun 6th, 2013 @ 10:34am)

    He's a freetard; that's why he won't pay.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    The Real Michael, Jun 7th, 2013 @ 7:46am

    Re: Re:

    Please. Who do you think created these agencies, funds them and directs their actions if not the government?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    identicon
    DP, Jun 7th, 2013 @ 11:56am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Have you ever thought of volunteering for the one-way Mars expedition?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    DP, Jun 7th, 2013 @ 11:58am

    Re: Re: Re:

    This rubbish is just getting beyond a joke.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 8th, 2013 @ 6:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Amen.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This