Is Trolling Just A Form Of Practical Jokes?

from the it's-all-fun-and-games-until-the-rickrolls-begin dept

As the news of 4chan hitting 1 billion posts has come out, it only seems appropriate that the Surprisingly Free podcast has a fascinating discussion with Stefan Krappitz, the author of the book Troll Culture: A Comprehensive Guide, in which Krappitz tries to suggest that the common view of trolling as being a negative thing is mostly inaccurate. Instead, he suggests, trolling is more a form of practical joking -- "disrupting people for personal amusement." He even suggests that Socrates may have been an original troll, baiting people with silly questions and then mocking them. The overall discussion is quite interesting, even if it seems to underestimate the collateral damage that trolling can cause at times. Still, it does raise some good points, that certainly counter the more common view of completely condemning trolling.


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  1.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:41am

    i would suggest asking the victims and seeing if they agreed or not

     

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    bob, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:45am

    No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    As someone who is repeated accused of being a troll simply for defending a different opinion, I think most people just want to spend their lives looking in a mirror. They hate the idea that they might not be perfectly, 100% correct and so they look for a label that will minimize and demonize those who dare to disagree with them.

    We've seen time and time again that groupthink destroys organizations. Yet once again, we see people infatuated with the idea of minimizing or denying the contributions of people with different thoughts.

    So no, it's not a practical joke. I spend my time here typing away because the issues are important enough to me. I want there to be a free and vibrant press that's supported by the populace, not by some foundation or an arm of the government. I want creators to have the freedom to control their work and not have it snatched by a mob.

    So quit belittling those who disagree with you and dreaming that it's all some practical joke. No. We're not joking when we say we think you're wrong. We really mean it.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:46am

    It seems that practical jokes are more of a form of trolling, much in the same way that squares are a form of rectangles.

     

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    bob, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:46am

    Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    As someone who is repeated accused of being a troll simply for defending a different opinion, I think most people just want to spend their lives looking in a mirror. They hate the idea that they might not be perfectly, 100% correct and so they look for a label that will minimize and demonize those who dare to disagree with them.

    We've seen time and time again that groupthink destroys organizations. Yet once again, we see people infatuated with the idea of minimizing or denying the contributions of people with different thoughts.

    So no, it's not a practical joke. I spend my time here typing away because the issues are important enough to me. I want there to be a free and vibrant press that's supported by the populace, not by some foundation or an arm of the government. I want creators to have the freedom to control their work and not have it snatched by a mob.

    So quit belittling those who disagree with you and dreaming that it's all some practical joke. No. We're not joking when we say we think you're wrong. We really mean it.

     

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    Pixelation, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:46am

    Trolling does seem to get quite a response. I've always wondered if blog authors ever troll there own comments to incite more responses from their readers.

     

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    anti-bob, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:51am

    Trolling: It is a Art.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:55am

    Re:

    So you mean our Bob/AC mascote is actually Mike ?
    Hold on, Mother is calling me...

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:57am

    Re: Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    We like to feel victimized don't we ?

     

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    PaulT (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:58am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    "As someone who is repeated accused of being a troll simply for defending a different opinion"

    That's not why you've earned that label. Stop fooling yourself, it's been explained to you many, many times.

    "I spend my time here typing away because the issues are important enough to me."

    Then why do most of your posts depend on false assumptions and conspiracy theories which you never correct once proven wrong (your rant against underground clubs as though they were criminal organisations a few weeks back, for instance)?

    Surely someone interested in honest discussion would apologise, correct themselves, and continue with the new facts in mind - or provide evidence if you still eblieve you're correct? A troll would disappear from the thread, wading in again with the same falsehoods as though nothing happened in the hopes of riling up people who hadn't seen the previous corrections. Why did you do the latter if you're interested in real discussion?

    "We really mean it."

    Then prove it. Supply citations, be willing to discuss and accept other ideas yourself. Stop whining about conspiracy theories, "paywalls" and other things to which you seem to hold you own definitions, unique among the English speaking world...

     

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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:58am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    boB - the official troll of the 2012 Olympics.

     

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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:02am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    You're accused of being a troll because:
    Your arguments are full of logical fallacies (when they are not twisted nonsense that couldn't be cut through with the jaws of life).
    You don't respond to the questions raised.
    You never back up anything you say with evidence.
    You consistently use personal attacks.

     

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    Tim Griffiths (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:03am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    It's true, people are some time so wrong in their ideas and yet so arrogant and sure of those views that they will never once coincide that they are wrong that they are confused for trolls.

    This happens because dispute confirmation bias the pain of having to rethink a view and admit when you are wrong most people are open to having their views changed. So when they run in to some who so clearly isn't open to that change it can be confused for trolling because they find it hard to accept that some one can be so wrong in often none objective and factual ways and yet refuse to see it that it must be some one having a joke.

    It's more comforting to think that such people are fake than that they are real and have a vote that means just as much as yours.

     

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    Tim Griffiths (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:07am

    Re:

    There are blog authors who write whole posts that are purely bait for a vocal group of people. The are places that are well know for letting people write posts on their sites that exist purely to drive page views by enraging a group who will want to debate and talk about what was said.

    That said I do think Bob is written by one of the Techdirt guy :)

     

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    Jeff Patterson, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:08am

    Would the behavior be acceptble or funny if performed in meatspace? Say, at a party? Then it's a joke. If not, its trolling.

     

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    Dionaea (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:11am

    Re:

    People with butthurt seem to be all to keen to make themselves look like victims, so that doesn't seem like the best method to judge trolls.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:12am

    As has been already proposed, there are several different flavors of trolling. In a sense, trolling is a supercategory that simply never got enough attention to merit its own word.

    The Devil's Advocate is a form of trolling - you present an unpopular opinion and defend it even if it seems logically untenable.
    Pranks and practical jokes are a form of trolling - you perform the unexpected and convince poeple of things that aren't true, forcing victims to wake up and pay closer attention to everything around them.
    The Gadfly is a form of trolling - you challenge assumptions and force people to actually think about what they believe.
    Baiting is a form of trolling - you poke at peoples' sensitivities, forcing them to defend themselves over their very real insecurities.

    The guy from Twelve Angry Men is a troll. Heath Ledger's Joker is a troll. Socrates is a troll. Voltaire is a troll. Nietzsche is probably a troll. Atticus Finch is a troll. Arius is a troll. Martin Luther is a troll. Martin Luther King Junior is a troll. James Madison is a troll. Thomas Jefferson is a troll.

    The list goes on and on. Hosting a prank reality show is trolling. Starting a broad politicla movement is trolling. Redefining philosophy is trolling.

    Trolling is poking things that don't like to be poked. Sometimes it's for lulz, sometimes there's a deeper goal.

    You can respond to a lulztroll with anger, or with self-examination. You can respond to a legittroll with anger, or with self-examination.

    Regardless of the intention, effective trolls hit a nerve. Better to learn a lesson from NarutoGoku69 than to dismiss MLK Jr. as a malicious rabble-rouser.

     

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    Matthew (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:12am

    Harrassment

    It's a practical joke when you do it to your friends. Otherwise it's harassment. The targets of trolling do not consider the trolls to be their friends.

     

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    GMacGuffin (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:14am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Yes bob, if your posts read like this one, your claim might make sense. But your posts generally are littered with vitriol and a heaping handful of Plato's Original Top Ten Logical Fallacies, usually beginning with argumentum ad hominem (argument against the man - e.g., "Pirate Mike," "pirate apologists" etc.).

    If you were truly a thoughtful, sincere troll, then it should occur to you that when your jumping-off point is a classic fallacious attack/argument, the remainder of your arguments topple for lack of credibility (and any backup evidence).

     

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    PaulT (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:16am

    Like a good practical joke, a good troll can be something that can be funny once the dust has settled, and even educate in rare cases. Sadly, most of them are poorly executed and all are a bad thing if done too often.

     

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    Zakida Paul (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:21am

    Trolling is simply attention seeking

    Nothing more, nothing less. By constantly reporting cases of trolling, the media are giving them what they want and are feeding their egos. Would trolling be such a big 'problem' if they were ignored by the media?

     

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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:26am

    Trolls

    I condone some trolling, just not any type that is designed to go after individuals. That's not trolling when the person you're joking with is hurt or victimized.

    My recently retired dad is a very very subtle troll and a master of getting people to think . Years of teaching in a high-school will do that to a guy. He was loved by his students for his sense of humor. Best known trolling he did was that no matter what you middle name was, your middle initial was always abbreviated as "J.". When you were asked to come get your test results he would call you by your "full name" and ask you to approach the bench.

    It's that type of trolling that should be condoned. It's the type where everyone, including the subject, can laugh.

     

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    Chris, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:33am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    I too am often accused of trolling merely for having a differing opinion to the majority.
    And when you clearly point out that you are not troll and highlight valid points then you normally just get the :
    Don't fee the trolls.

    Too many stupid people on the web unfortunately.

     

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    Chris, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:33am

    Re: Re: Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    Don't feed the troll...

     

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    Atkray (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:34am

    Re:

    But isn't this just because the barriers to entry are so low that lots of people attempt to troll and not so much a result of the actual act of trolling.

    I think it is similar to psychology, a lot of people (especially parents) practice some form of it but how many are really even the least bit effective at it let alone good?

     

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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:38am

    Re: Harrassment

    I've been on the butt end of that harrassnent before. It got so bad an entire gaming community shunned the guy. Karma bit him in the ass when when of the transforners near his processor blew up.

    This was the worst of the worst trolls too. He was very arrogant, thought nothing of others, was into child pornography, suggested he screwed a two year old (and gave advice on how to do it since it is medically impossible) and only behaved when admins were on the servers. The guy was in his own little fantasy world. It was a creepy experience I never want to have again. I still shudder just thinking about it.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:41am

    Re:

    Ask filmmakers how they feel about infringement while you're at it.

     

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    llortamai, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:42am

    Rules for Life

    1. Take into account that great love and great achievements need to be made fun of.
    2. When you lose, refuse to back down. Be more obstinate.
    3. Follow the three R's: Respect no one, respect no cause, and take no responsibility for what you are doing or saying.
    4. Remember that not giving in to what people want is usually a wonderful stroke of genius.
    5. Learn the rules so that you can play in the gray areas without being banned.
    6. Blow every little thing out of proportion and call people names.
    7. When you realize you've made a mistake, blame someone else.
    8. Spend some time creating constructive posts every day. This will confuse people.
    9. Change is for the weak, unless it is funnier.
    10.Remember that silence is never the answer until you are bored.
    11. Live a good, honorable life. That way if people find out who you are they won't believe it is you trolling them.
    12. A loving atmosphere is the best place to troll. They never expect it.
    13. In disagreements with respected people, discredit them with grammar or spelling errors. Bring up any slightly opposing viewpoint they have ever had.
    14. Make sock-puppets, but use proxy servers for them. It's a great way to drive people insane.
    15. Be gentle with no-one
    16. Once a year, introduce someone else to the fun of trolling. their need to prove you wrong is greater than your need to laugh.
    18. Judge your success by how ridiculous other people sound responding to your arguments.
    17. Remember that the best fun is one which
    19. Approach trolling and sock-puppeteering with reckless abandon.

     

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    clinton (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:43am

    People seem to be confusing idiots with trolls...
    Sure you can get people who are both but surely a troll is someone who knowingly sets out to agitate others with misinformation or just generally winding people up, but they actually are aware that they are wrong and just taking the piss.
    To often though the person who is labeled a troll is just an idiot who don't realise they're own ignorance.

    Some trolls are quite funny and I would say are modern day practical jokers.

     

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    DS, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:45am

    Re:

    How about we ask your mom?

     

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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:46am

    Re: Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    "As someone who is repeated accused of being a troll simply for defending a different opinion"

    No boB, its not because you have a different opinion, its because you are batshit crazy and some of the shit that comes out of your mouth is sooooo far out of reality it appears, to humans with normal id's, that you must be fucking around.

    Now.... we all have done it. We all have been a troll at one time or another. Its fun to fuck around sometimes. But you... you are consistently outta this world with your comments.

    This comment was a well thought out one. Probably one of your best.

    " I want creators to have the freedom to control their work and not have it snatched by a mob." - Sooo close boB. See batshit crazy. No one "snatches" it away. There is no mob. This is why you get called a troll. No seriously boB.
    There is no gang of ppl with pitchforks and torches running around to content creators snatching their works from them.

    "I spend my time here typing away because the issues are important enough to me." - Us too. Difference is we base our opinions on facts whereas you base it on shoulda, coulda, and feelings.


    "So no, it's not a practical joke."
    I dont agree either. When I troll, I know I am being an asshole. Sometimes PPL just dont deserve my time, but deserve to be fucked with. People are assholes... period.
    Everyone has it in them.

    See ya boB. I had more but gotta go back to work.

    I am not joking when I say you are batshit crazy. I really mean it.

     

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    DS, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:46am

    Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    True, people do love an echo chamber, but, there is a good way to have a difference, and a troll way.

     

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    Baldaur Regis (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:47am

    Re: Re:

    Trollish redirection from the topic: well played, sir!

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:50am

    Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Then why do most of your posts depend on false assumptions and conspiracy theories.....

    Are you completely out of your fucking mind? How many Techdirtbags have claimed that a judge rendering an unfavorable decision:

    1. Doesn't understand the law
    2. Has been paid by the AA's
    3. Is in the pocket of X?

    How many Techdirtbags claim that the DoJ, FBI. ICE, etc operate at the direction of the studios/labels?

    Demonoid's seizure is claimed to have been a "gift" to the US due to an upcoming state visit. Megaupload's takedown is sworn to be payback for SOPA's demise. You people are the most paranoid, conspiracy lunatics I've ever come across and now you have the temerity accuse others? You've been wearing that tinfoil hat so long you don't realize its still there.

     

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    Wally, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:53am

    Re: Re:

    Well, good point. My dad is a teacher and was ballenced. The difference between a good troll and stupid troll. The Internet is full of the latter. Stupid trolls do it for amusement and bully people bevsuse they have pathetic lives themselves.

    Then we have the trolls like my dad. He's taught chemistry for years, and is a well respected individual in the community. He teaches to make you think for yourself by priming you with humor. If he "trolls" you, it is a term of endearment.

    Internet trolls are a very bad thing. I think some of the reason is that they lack the capability to realize that other people exist on the other nodes of the line. Most of them have a deep psychological and emotional trauma. From a psychologist's standpoint, I really can tell you that it is a huge problem. Some of them are outright dangerous. My point is that there are many many layers to it, the further you go, the more sour it gets.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:53am

    Trolling is a art.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:54am

    I've seen a few "creative trolls" on Wikipedia, and they are a major pain to have to deal with. They seem intent on pushing the rules just to the limit, trying to interpret rules in other contexts besides those they were intended to address and screaming unfair when called out on it. In one discussion about whether to block one such troll, it was suggested that a good way for him to demonstrate good faith would be stay well within the rules for a period of time, going the extra mile to not even come close to limits. He absolutely bristled at the idea, openly hostile to the idea that he wouldn't be allowed to behave right up to the limit of what the rules allow. I might add that this person's pattern of behavior was one of making edits that were just barely plausible and just within the rules, but which had a good chance of stirring up drama and discord. It didn't matter whether he actually believed the edits he was trying to make; what mattered was how many people he could piss off with them.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:57am

    Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    As usual, you'd make a much stronger point leaving petty words out such as "Techdirtbags", "lunatics", Norman.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:03am

    My friend was trolled once, they gave him some pills and he walked it off. He's better now for the most part.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:04am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Are you really such a thin-skinned Nancyboy, that such characterizations prevent you from getting the point? You people are the absolute kings of conspiracy theory. You believe in a global copyright cartel bent on a new world order of domination by copyright enforcement. It's utterly laughable; but here you are- every day spinning new fantasies about judges, legislators, studios, labels, ISP's all conspiring against you.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:05am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    I know, you really mean to be a library-hating idiot, bob.

     

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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:05am

    Re: Trolling is simply attention seeking

    "Nothing more, nothing less. By constantly reporting cases of trolling, the media are giving them what they want and are feeding their egos. Would trolling be such a big 'problem' if they were ignored by the media?"

    Yes they would. I've seen cases where they don't stop until someone of authority brings the wrath of an entire community upon them. The problem isn't feeding their ego's, it's getting them to shut up. To put it as one of my friends had said "There is troll-lol'ing, and then there's *sighs annoyed* trolling"

    You can jab and jibe making all parties laugh (including the person you're trolling) , but you can also keep going not knowing when to shut up (annoying everyone from hearing you).

     

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  42.  
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    Pinstar, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:06am

    Agreeing that Socrates was history's first recorded troll. Trolling, like any form of humor, can be applied in many different ways that make it anything from useful to hateful and everything in between.

    Example:
    In College, my Philosophy professor was a massive troll, an intellectual troll. He did many things to our class but the biggest one was on the subject of race and equality. He (An african american) setup a debate where the class must choose two sides in the topic "Are black people inferior to white people". One side debating in favor of it, and one against it.

    Keep in mind that most of our class (myself included) were liberal, white and very PC individuals who were horrified at the prospect of arguing that any race was inferior to another.

    To up the trolling a notch, he allowed students to pick sides freely... and the side that won the debate would get a 10 point bonus to their next exam. He also picked a side himself. Being a master at these types of discussion, he placed himself on the side arguing that black people were inferior...and that side eventually won that particular debate. Mainly because the students on the "black and whites are equals" side relied too much on emotional arguments that didn't hold up to further scrutiny. That and due to the fact that most of the class was on that side, there wasn't much focus in their debate strategy.

    Most trolling is not like this, but it is an example of how trolling can be used for intellectual and educational purposes...in addition to amusement for the troll.

     

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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:07am

    Re: Rules for Life

    I think most of those constitute being a bully.

     

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    PaulT (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:07am

    Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    "How many Techdirtbags have claimed that a judge rendering an unfavorable decision:"

    I don't know, do you have a figure? It's certainly not 100%. I know plenty who haven't, so why do you leave them out of your ranting?

    "How many Techdirtbags claim that the DoJ, FBI. ICE, etc operate at the direction of the studios/labels?"

    There's plenty of evidence to support that claim, and the responses from people like you tend to be fact-free personal insults rather than valid opposition (see above). Again, why do you ignore those who don't do that, but still disapprove of their tactics? Inconvenient to your assumptions?

    "Demonoid's seizure is claimed to have been a "gift" to the US due to an upcoming state visit. "

    Evidence is welcome to the contrary, if you have it. Until then, the timing seems suspicious to say the least.

    "Megaupload's takedown is sworn to be payback for SOPA's demise."

    Evidence is welcome to the contrary, if you have it. Until then, the timing seems suspicious to say the least.

    "You people are the most paranoid, conspiracy lunatics I've ever come across and now you have the temerity accuse others?"

    Prove it. You have access to my entire posting history - where did I personally do anything like that? Citation, please.

    "You've been wearing that tinfoil hat so long you don't realize its still there."

    Citation, please.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:08am

    Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    You forgot to mention how they paint everything with a broad brush and treat an entire community as if it's one person.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:09am

    This is an interesting discussion for people who think any attempt to curtail illegal copyright infringement constitutes a massive breach of their free speech rights.

     

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  47.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:09am

    "Trolling" doesn't mean what it used to mean.

    Now a days anytime someone thinks what they are doing will not be approved by another person they call it trolling. Used to trolling meant saying something to get a rise out of another. But since the "troll face" meme has been around it's basically been taken over by teenagers who want to seem clever when they are doing something that makes them look stupid. Any attempt to call them out on such stupidity ends up in "U MAD?" being said over and over.

    Self proclaimed "trolls" aren't funny, they aren't original and more then likely they aren't really trolling they just claim such so they aren't taken seriously.

     

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  48.  
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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:11am

    Re: Performance Art

    "Performance Art" defined: attempting to annoy or offend as many people as possible in as many simultaneous methods as one possibly can.

    "Trolling" defined: A refined subset of "Performance Art"

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:11am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Remember when the record labels conspired against dead people by suing them and consumers by root kit? Good times.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:14am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Interesting that you demand citations yet have none of your own to offer to support the usual Techdirt narratives surrounding judicial corruption, AA control over DoJ, Demonoid and Megaupload seizures, etc. Unless your citation consists solely of your observation of "suspicious timing"- which isn't worth a bucket of warm spit.

     

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  51.  
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    ethorad (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:14am

    Re:

    Well artists get to decide that what they do is art, and in most modern cases I personally disagree.

    Trolls can probably decide whether what they do is practical jokes. In this case I probably agree that it is. After all, with most physical practical jokes, the recipient doesn't tend to see the funny side. Tripping people up, pulling their chairs out, covering them with ink ... all practical jokes to the joker, all as welcome to the recipient as trolling.

     

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  52.  
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    PGP_Protector (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:15am

    Re: Re:

    She's got her mouth full.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:23am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Are you really such a thin-skinned Nancyboy, that such characterizations prevent you from getting the point?

    It rather is the token of a weak mind to no be able to discuss ideas without making it personal and calling names on people of a different view.

    ...all conspiring against you.
    So the readers here are no longer all "freetard" and "pirates" ? Is it an upgrade or a downgrade to "conspirationist".

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:24am

    Re:

    Yeah, especially for those who have actually seen copyright laws being used to take down parody and political speech. Trolling does count as free speech, yes, but like any speech, it can be amusing when done right, and annoying when done wrong.

     

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  55.  
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    MrWilson, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:27am

    Re: Re:

    That'd be an interesting experiment certainly, and I'd love to see an after-action report from a blogger who tried it and what they found, but I doubt Mike would have time to do that. He seems pretty prolific with his writing and a lot of it summarizes long legal filings and references research that he obviously is reading. And that's just stuff he does for Techdirt.

     

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  56.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:31am

    Trolling is perhaps one of the most misused terms on the internet. It's certainly misused here on a daily basis.

    It's become a throw away method for dismissing anyone that doesn't agree with you: You are just trolling me.

    It's sad, because it's become another brick in the wall of entrenchment that people here seem to hide behind.

     

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  57.  
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    llortamai, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:39am

    Re: Re: Rules for Life

    I could certainly see how an oversensitive douchenozzle wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone pushing you and stealing your lunch money and some words typed on the intertubes that you could ignore.

     

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  58.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:46am

    Re: Re: Rules for Life

    Sounds like Wally still isn't over the "kick me" signs from junior high

     

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  59.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:48am

    Re: Re:

    Odd, about 90% of the hysterical ranting seems to come from the prospect of not being able to access free copyrighted music and movies.

     

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  60.  
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    Vidiot (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:49am

    There's a semantic split here

    Interesting to see Krappitz' article, only one day after I was called out... light-heartedly... as a troll by my 19-year-old, for injecting one or two wiseass remarks into a multi-party SMS conversation. I'd been conditioned to associate "troll" with the know-nothing nonsense described -- and demonstrated -- above; never heard/saw the label applied in the joker/wiseass scenario. This kind of semantic schizophrenia happens all the time... a term is used harmlessly by one group, and perniciously by another, leading to nasty misunderstandings. Need a new term here...

     

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  61.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Yes, we must have all imagined the all the leaked documentation that shows these things...

     

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  62.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:58am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    You can search the site history just as easily as anyone else. Quit acting like established facts are somehow just made up because no one has linked them in this particular thread. You're doing exactly the same thing bob stood accused of doing when you came to his defense, forgetting history to spout the same disproved non-sense.

     

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  63.  
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    DCX2, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:06am

    Re: Re:

    If those who are butthurt are the trolls' intended target, then I would think they are the very best method to judge trolls.

     

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  64.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:08am

    Re: Re:

    Precisely. I really don't mind being trolled as long as I can laugh. Some trolls don't know when to stop though. Like most of the real world, I do have a point where it goes too far. It's better to troll someone you've gotten to know. As long as you know their limits, or know when to stop, it's good. It's a whole hell of a lot better than the common than a flaming, derping, asshole of a troll, which is where most of the "butthurt" people start complaining.

    If someone clearly gets stressed by your trolling, you should probably stop and apologize. A good troll knows where to stop, a bad troll tests the limits if peoples' sanity.

     

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  65.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    OK Einstein. I searched for a singular instance of a judge taking a bribe or convicted of being influenced in a copyright case. It has NEVER happened.

    OK, your turn.

     

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  66.  
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    DCX2, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:19am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    They hate the idea that they might not be perfectly, 100% correct and so they look for a label that will minimize and demonize those who dare to disagree with them.

    Like...pirate apologists?

     

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  67.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:30am

    Re: Re: Re:

    People in an emotional state don't make sound judgments. Are you a fucking moron on purpose?

     

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  68.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:30am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Pretty apt analogy.

     

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  69.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:32am

    Re: Re: Re:

    It's a miss for that one. You're not really the AC I can tell :D

     

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  70.  
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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Chose those words pretty carefully, didn't you?

    You don't need to be "convicted" of something for it to have influence.

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090422/2213024614.shtml
    "Judge In Pirate Bay Case Appears To Have Ties To The Copyright Lobby"
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090506/1029274770.shtml
    "Pirate Bay Judge Accused Of Conflict In Another Case As Well"
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090520/0411254949.shtml
    "Person In Charge Of Determining If Pirate Bay Judge Is Biased... May Be Biased"
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090520/0411254949.shtml
    "Swedish Judge In Charge Of Determining Bias Of Pirate Bay Judge Removed... For Bias"

     

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  71.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:34am

    Re: Re:

    " Tripping people up, pulling their chairs out, covering them with ink ... all practical jokes to the joker, all as welcome to the recipient as trolling."

    Ok, I'll poor ink on your suit as you head into work, rig the office chair in your cubicle to fall the moment you sit on it, and do it day after day after day like a common troll to see how long it takes for me to get fired or for you to send in a report.

    The true art in trolling isn't merely practical jokes I might add. My father used it daily on his students to great effect through his subtle dry humor trolling. Funny thing is, most of his jokes made you think a bit to get the punch line has been brought aware to an issue. Most people who have taken sociology or philosophy in college have witnessed a troll teaching.

    The art requires you to not only to evoke a reaction, but also to raise social problem awareness. Now admittedly, some trolls raise the awareness of the problem of trolling quite inadvertently. That type of trolling is where it should end.

    My favorite troll of all time is truly my father. He never lets up until either my mom or I give him a look. One of the things I warned my wife about was his quick way of picking on you for the smallest science mistake. I was in another room and I was in earshot of my now wife and my father talking.

    Dad: "So how do you like that pop (soda for you New Englanders)"
    Wife: *sort of searching for the right words not suspecting a thing* "I don't know, it's sort of water based, I don't like it all that much"
    Dad *mocking teasing scoff* *me pausing listening to his response*: "Well you know Mae, all pop is water based"

    Every once and a while he will ask her how the water based pop tastes when he sees her drinking Rootbeer or any other soda pop. We all still chuckle about it.

    So really the point is, yes there is an art, yes it raises social awareness, and can be more fun if you can get your "victim" to laugh with you about it.

     

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  72.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    The two people duking it out here are in mating season for trolls. They are fighting it out over a female troll that only exists in a virtual world It is actually quite common to see these battles for superiority in the grand forest of Internet. One alpha troll trying to outlast the other in a grewling battle over superiority for the right to mate with the imaginary unobtanable female.. If you spot one of these, take heed and observe very closely, but do not get in the middle of it lest one of them gores you with a long pointy stick with mysterious markings forming some sort of trollish language yet to be decrypted by mankind.

     

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  73.  
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    DCX2, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:57am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, that's only 10% of the hysterical ranting.

    90% of the ranting is about people who want to consume media the way they want to (on demand, with pause, etc), or having access to the media at all (Game of Thrones, etc)

     

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  74.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:04am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Yes, alluding to the existing documentation, both leaked an public, that shows the relationship between trade organization lobbying groups like the *AAs and the USTR is clearly just 'some sort of trollish language.'

     

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  75.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:07am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    I hate to spam but here it's revised:

    The trolls duking it out here are in mating season for trolls. They are fighting it out over a female troll that only exists in a virtual world It is actually quite common to see these battles for superiority in the grand forest of Internet. One alpha troll trying to outlast the others in a grewling battle over superiority for the right to mate with the imaginary unobtanable female.. If you spot one of these, take heed and observe very closely, but do not get in the middle of it lest one of them gores you with a long pointy stick with mysterious markings forming some sort of trollish language yet to be decrypted by mankind.


    I've actually run into people with the denial problem. The internet trolls that live in denial tend to be extremely socially devient. They seem to forget that real humans are on the other side of their machines communicating. Since this certain subgroup of internet trolls can't see the human they talk to, they get descebsitized from being polite and commonly descent towards other users.

     

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  76.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:13am

    Re: Re: Rules for Life

    "Respect no one, respect no cause, and take no responsibility for what you are doing or saying."

    or a sociopath

     

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  77.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Yes, though what you fail to acknowledge is that EFF, CDT, PK and many tech industry lobbying groups have those same relationships with USTR, FCC, Congress, Commerce, etc. Yet when one of those government entities acts in the interests of one of the above groups, you don't see copyright interests claiming that they are owned and controlled by special interests or taking bribes.

     

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  78.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    It might be more credible if you cited a source other than the blog of the biggest piracy apologist on the planet. Masnick is the master of innuendo and FUD and the reason that most of his disciples believe the absurd conspiracy theories that abounds.

     

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  79.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    OK, so I'll lower the bar for you again. Find an instance of a judge being disciplined for being influenced by copyright interests. An objective source would be appreciated.

     

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  80.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    AC, your trolling needs improvement.

    llortamai, let me explain. These type of people who steal the lunch money are real life trolls. Look at how a bully acts. Now look at the chart.

    Bully: Gets kicks off of picking on others who can't help themselves
    Devient Troll: If you laugh at that entire chart that's the first comparison.

    Bully: Never backs down no matter what.
    Devient Troll: Refer to taking a shit (number 2) and 10.

    Bully: Has a deep psychological fear of those victims and misdirects that fact by getting others to join in on the bullying.
    Devient Troll: Number 14

    Bully: Keeps banging away recklessly without knowing the consequences of their actions (recent trends indicate they end up being shot by their victims)
    Devient Troll: number 3, number 7, number 9, number 19

    "I could certainly see how an oversensitive douchenozzle wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone pushing you and stealing your lunch money and some words typed on the intertubes that you could ignore"

    The fact that you use the meme "intertubes" tells me you're a douchebag 12 year old kid whose parents dont give a shit about and abandond you to the internet to distract you from them adding to the surplus population population (to which you are masterbatimg at that thought by now) that is you. It is a clear indication you are someone who thinks he knows what he's doing on the Internet and cares nothing for others. You'll be forever alone living in your parent's basement wondering when the bouncing bed noises will stop at night. Good luck dude, you're a devient troll.

     

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  81.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    Take note, llortamai, this AC's comment is far kinder than mine.

     

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  82.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:42am

    Re: There's a semantic split here

    Take a course in sociology and psychology, it makes it way easier to sort it out between the types of trolls.

     

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  83.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:53am

    Re: Re: Re:

    A victim is only a victim if they allow themselves to be. I prefer to call it 'banter between persons that are in the same situation as myself but this does not necessarily make us friends".

    Trolling has been around since before the Internet even came around. I just recently recognized that my step-dad and his father were IRL trolls. I just never had a term for it. Now I do, and it's easier to call them out on it.

    The whole time I was growing up, I knew they were 'trolling'. I just didn't know how to point it out without getting in trouble. Now I just look em dead in the eye and tell em to quit trolling.

    What the monkey. Sorry for going off topic...which is a terrible name for clothing store.

     

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  84.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:54am

    Re: Re:

    and how does that make you feel?

     

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  85.  
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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:58am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Last link I posted had a cut and paste error - got the headline right but was linking to wrong story.

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090525/1542304998.shtml
    "Swedish Judge In Charge Of Determining Bias Of Pirate Bay Judge Removed... For Bias"

    Removed from the case sounds like being disciplined to me. The judge didn't recuse herself, as we saw the NZ judge do in the Dotcom case when there was even the slightest hint of a tangentially related comment.

    If you follow the link in that story, it takes you to:
    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/second-judge-removed-from-pirate-bay-case
    which doesn't even fit your expansive view of a piracy apologist site. This was covered elsewhere as well. Are you denying that it happened?

    Why is it so important to you that it must be a conviction or disciplinary issue? You make wild accusations that Techdirt is a piracy apologist site. You support that Kim Dotcom is the epitome of evil based on nothing but accusations. You support kicking people off the internet based on nothing but accusations. Why do only pro-copyright supporters get the benefit of due process and skepticism when accusations are good enough to codemn someone of piracy?

     

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  86.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:05am

    Re: Trolls

    Or if it spills over into real life.

    I ended up losing a few years of data on my Facebook because of a forum gaming troll getting out of hand.

    (please skip the obvious of having info on Facebook, you know what I mean. I never expected it to get that out of hand).

    I troll when I am bored. Plain and simple. I want to see the creative things that come out...the memes....the pics....the silly banter.

    There is one guy on our server that will make even YOU into the Futureama Fry meme (Not sure if Trolling, or really stupid).

    I can't help but smile, because it's like seeing how the human brain is capable of so much on that smart/stupid line. Very fascinating. Some brain surgeon should get on that.

     

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  87.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:15am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    My post wasn't politically motivated. I was just making a point of the counterproductibve bickering that is produced in a debate that trolls tend to produce.

     

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  88.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:17am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Furthermore, I was helping neither of you sods so stow it where the sun don't shine.

     

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  89.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    You support kicking people off the internet based on nothing but accusations. Why do only pro-copyright supporters get the benefit of due process and skepticism when accusations are good enough to codemn someone of piracy?

    What? I never said that. I thought it was very appropriate that the 3 strikes HADOPI cases were being referred to the prosecutor in order to take action. Though it seems that whenever due process is applied, the denizens of Techdirt still snivel. And due process is a duty of the judicial process. You have no right to due process from your ISP. You will soon find out as US addresses shown to be chronic infringers are throttled to a snail's pace.

     

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  90.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:23am

    Re:

    Ah what you are referring to is people that are unable to tell the difference in between statements as being an honest effort to communicate vs trying to misdirect to the speakers own agenda vs trying to mislead the person listening.

    Yes, most humans will accept statements from people being genuine, and the rest is assumed to be trolling.

    When, in fact, there are 50 more shades of what the speaker is trying to accomplish.

    On a message board, it's difficult for the listener to distinguish the intent of the authors words. That is why most people, when presented with text that is different from our own ideals in a fashion that is argumentative, the author is automatically shoved into the trolling bucket.

    If there is someone with a different opinion, the best way to be heard is to present your side of the topic in a non-threatening, non-name calling way, and see how the conversation changes.

    I think that is why most of what is said around here is us vs them mentality. The art of effective communication is essentially hosed because the art of debate is gone.

     

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  91.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:30am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    So after I again lowered the bar to allow you to show that a judge has been removed from a copyright case for disciplinary reasons you come up with this?

    It was probably wise for a new judge to be assigned to maintain the appearance of judicial impartiality, but pre-existing membership in an organization is hardly the sort of charge of corruption and influence by the AA's taken as gospel around here. Should a judge who is a member of the ACLU or EFF be removed from a copyright case? How about membership in Planned Parenthood or a pro-life organization or even a Catholic judge hearing a case involving abortion?

     

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  92.  
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    SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:37am

    Re: Re: Harrassment

    Oh my! What game was this?? I swear I must've met the same bastard. Your description sounds dead on.

     

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  93.  
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    SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    'Oversensitive'? That's like saying I see too much cause I can see what's infront of my own face!

    If someone follows the above list they win a VIP trip to smackjacket status, I really don't have time for their excuses. Act like an ass get treated like one!

     

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  94.  
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    SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:50am

    Re: Re:

    Perhaps if the person stresses out over elementary school insults.

    However I've been on the receiving end of 'trolls' who seem to go out of their way to make somebody butthurt. The tactics they employ are highly malicious and dirty, I fail to see how anyone else could be judged for their behaviour.

     

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  95.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:52am

    Re: Re: There's a semantic split here

    It doesn't take a Sociology or Psychology class to understand types....

    It takes both parties listening to what is being said.

    For example, if there is a person that is standing in front of you, looking at the ceiling, screaming at the top of their lungs their point of view, they are not engaged in conversation. They are so emotionally wrapped up in their own message that all they do is just stand there and scream.

    That's not trolling. Unless they have decided to CHOOSE that method of presenting their viewpoint. Now they are trolling.

     

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  96.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:54am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    Wow, what a bitter and scarred, sad sack you are. Kind of creepy too.

     

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  97.  
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    Edward Teach, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:57am

    Bloggers trolling their own comments - yes!

    This most certainly has happened:

    http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2001/08/45872

    The editor of then-fashionable Linux Advocacy site Linux Today trolled his readership. Linux Today never really recovered. George Tirebiter just went too far, too long. If he'd kept it to the very occasional jab, he'd probably have gotten away with it.

    Everything has been thought of once, the problem is to think of it again.

     

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  98.  
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    SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 11:58am

    Re: Re: Re:

    And by malicious I don't mean 'yo momma' jokes or 'lol u bad', I mean stuff like getting others to harass me, constant racial/sexist insults, nitpicking everything I do, stalking me across sites/places, death threats and just being about as unpleasant and obnoxious as they possibly can.

     

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  99.  
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    SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    'Techdirtbags' Been awhile since I've seen that one.

     

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  100.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:14pm

    Re: Re: Re: Harrassment

    Age of Chivalry....A Half-Life 2 mod. The guy went under the moniker of JCash or any variant therein.

     

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  101.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    Nope, just preventing a troll from attempting any of his work done as a devient troll. Devient trolls make us all who properly troll humanely look really bad.

     

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  102.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:27pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    That and I have a lot of experience downing web trolls who get out of hand. Funny thing is, everyone brushes off that type of trolling that llortamai depicted. Had he not responded the way he did, I would have skipped that and responded with a kindly counter. And no worries AC, I'm cool with you.

    I would give you details on how to do the troll countering like that and how to spot them, but if I do he will just start using proxy and sock puppet methods to answer back.

     

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  103.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    Note the avatar to the right of my name, compare it to the exact duplicate AC comment above and note they are the same. That means it is me.

     

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  104.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:39pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "A victim is only a victim if they allow themselves to be. I prefer to call it 'banter between persons that are in the same situation as myself but this does not necessarily make us friends".

    Trolling has been around since before the Internet even came around. I just recently recognized that my step-dad and his father were IRL trolls. I just never had a term for it. Now I do, and it's easier to call them out on it.

    The whole time I was growing up, I knew they were 'trolling'. I just didn't know how to point it out without getting in trouble. Now I just look em dead in the eye and tell em to quit trolling."


    Pertaining to the last paragraph, how many times has that ever stopped them without a group effort? Now in my father's case, if I, my wife, or my mother ask him to stop he does. But there are those who don't stop and are only out to troll for shock value and replete the same behaviors over and over. Most trolls I come across do actually stop when asked. But for the many who keep on going, you cannot stop them without being really harsh. My point is that it gets very old very quick.

     

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  105.  
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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:43pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    What do you mean lowering the bar again? Nice revisionist history. Had I not made a silly cut and paste error, I would have posted that link in my very first reply in this thread. As soon as I saw you make that unsupportable claim that a judge had NEVER been influenced in a copyright case I knew where to find something disproving it.

    And pre-existing or previous membership in lobbying organizations is something we talk about all the time around here. TD covers the revolving door politics of Washington all the time. TD covered Judge Beryl Howell's previous lobbying for RIAA when she started rulling on copyright cases.

    Yes, judges should recuse themselves if there is something that points to bias. Are there judges that are members of the ACLU or EFF ruling on copyright cases? Care to cite an example, or are you making wild accusations again? Yet we don't see judges recusing themselves when they have the appearance of a bias being pro-copyright. Having religious affiliations (also, a lack of religious affiliations is seen as a religious affiliation) is considerably harder to avoid, but I think judges (in general) have managed to maintain the appearance of not being influenced - and when they haven't, yes, they should be removed from cases.

     

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  106.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:52pm

    Re: Re: Trolls

    "I can't help but smile, because it's like seeing how the human brain is capable of so much on that smart/stupid line. Very fascinating. Some brain surgeon should get on that."

    You have to live with my father for 25 years to get how I feel about that type of troll-lol'ing. I completely agree there ^_^ The beauty of it is you can be smart and troll someone intelegently so that it makes their brain flutter for a moment. But I always make sure that the person I troll ends up laughing. If not, I apologize to that person....which reminds me, i have got to say "water-based pop" to my wife. I haven't said it in a while.

    We get a chuckle and a playfully funny "shut up" out of my wife every time my father or I even mentions "water-based pop"

     

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  107.  
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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 12:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Oh, and look at that. Right after I mentioned her, I see a new story over at ArsTechnica about how Judge Howell is siding with copyright holders, even though many other judges in the country have seen through their tactics and are throwing the cases out.

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/judge-sides-with-porn-p2p-plaintiff-setting-up-le gal-showdown/

    When she gets slapped down, are you going to try to squirm out from your comments and say the stories are not coming from reputable sources?

     

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  108.  
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    AzureSky (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 1:08pm

    Re: Re: Performance Art

    the correcty way of saying what the op here ment was, proper trolling is an art, most of the trolls TD and other sites have are just unskilled hamfisted idiots.

    a proper troll can work without anybody but possibly other skilled trolls catching on to what they are doing.

    I have dont this on many tech forums, drive people to do and say things that get themselves banned...without it ever really appearing I did anything to set it off.....

    I will admit to blatant trolling as well at times, because, some assholes really really just need somebody to troll the fuck out of them at times....(and because it can be fun to annoy idiots.....)

     

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  109.  
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    AzureSky (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 1:20pm

    Re:

    nice try at trolling but you where a bit to blatant about it....your execution lacked fineness...dont worry, you have time to learn to troll properly....may i suggest IRC as a good place to go to troll bootcamp.

     

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  110.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 1:21pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Oh I was talking IRL.

    Online trolling I use misdirection of the topic and/or if the troll gets too personal/harmful/justmean.

    In the gaming community, it doesn't stop until someone is banned or it escalates too far.

    Eventually, everyone just agrees that they are tired of beating each other up, and stop posting for a while.

     

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  111.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 1:28pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, Comedy Central has had their fair share of this. There were some original message boards, then a revision, then another revision, and I think now they killed em completely and redirect everyone to Facebook.

    We actually started an offshoot forum after the original message boards were shut down in 2004 I think? There was a pack of 10ish of us that whittled down over the years to 4 of us.

    Some went back after Comedy Central opened up the new boards. I got into World of Warcraft about that time.

    Anywho, it wasn't until this very last shut down and people flocked to our board that I understood how deep the troll cave can get. I have had my share of WoW forum trolls, but these people have issues.......

    Reminds me of when Jack Sparrow and Barbossa dueled:

    "So what now, Jack Sparrow? Are we to be two immortals locked in an epic battle 'til Judgement Day and trumpets sound, hmm?"

    "Or you could surrender."


    *clangclangclang*

     

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  112.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 1:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Trolls

    I understand. My step-dad and his father were mean IRL trolls. I remember when I was 10 and got shoved off the merry-go-round at school. I was just standing there minding my own business, and some kid dared another to shove me off. It broke both the bones in my right arm (almost took the whole thing off). Very painful.

    After I got back from the hospital, my step-dad and his father walked into the living room where I was laying on a foam mattress in front of the TV with a bunch of pillows. They look at me and said things like "Oh, you think you are living the life, ehy? We should make you go out and feed cows right now. Get up, get dressed!" and "I think you only broke your arm because you are jealous of your baby sister."


    It took me a while into my adult life to understand they were trolling me. Up until that point in my life, I had never run across people that behaved like that. It was scary and confusing.

    I guess that is what makes it so easy for me now to observe the conversations people have, and participate in a fashion that runs along the funny streak.

    One of our funny ones was...I would always ask when we were going somewhere..."Who's going to be there?". His response was always "George Harrison".

    I was almost an adult before I ever learned the answer to that one.

     

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  113.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 2:11pm

    Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Another troll rhetoric I heard constantly (no, please no more debating this as the plantif has provided very good evidence) was the fact that the entire reason Apple was suing Samsung was over rectangles and round corners not even reading the articles or considering how caught in the corners Samsung's defense is.

     

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  114.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 2:15pm

    Re: Re: Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    We all have been a troll at one time or another. Its fun to fuck around sometimes.


    I can honestly say that I've never intentionally trolled. I just don't see the fun in it.

    However, there have been many (and will be many more) times when I've said stuff that ended up to be braindead, or said something motivated by anger that put me in a less than flattering light.

     

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    Rapnel (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 2:26pm

    I don't like this subject

    It lends legitimacy to something that doesn't really deserve it. To bob's attempt at a point - being able to contribute by disagreeing is a perfectly legit one, however, some things really do need to be substantiated with more than the likes of "Because you're a fat pirate, bitch.".

    That said, "troll" is an oft overused label applied carelessly and with intent to berate and belittle those with minority opinions on any given thread/topic. (key word: opinions)

    Be sincere, be truthful, hold to your opinions only until it is proven to be untenable. You can even be nice if you really want to but you should probably try, even if it's hard, to be respectful. Other people are smarter than other people. Learn or burn.

     

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  116.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 3:18pm

    Some people are making money out of trolling.

    Prank vs. Prank
    A couple keeps trolling each others and show it to the whole world.

    Each video with a million views from what I could see.

    Would you put glue on the hair gel of your man?(what man uses hair gel anyways?)
    Would you throw a lobster in the shower and see your girlfriend running naked from it?

     

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  117.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 4:45pm

    Re: Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    The day you stop belittling those who disagree with you is the day people will start not doing it to you bob.

     

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  118.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 4:48pm

    Re: Harrassment

    That is kind of circular don't you think?
    I mean if those target don't consider the trolls to be their friends that means when you target your friends they are not your friends anymore and thus you are harrassing your ex-friends.

    :)

     

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  119.  
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    Pixelation, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 5:53pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    I guess we could call it "Astrotrolling".

     

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  120.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 6:46pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    trolololololo

     

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  121.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:04pm

    Trolling is for faggy retarded tree-hugging nigger-loving pirate apologists.

     

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  122.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:38pm

    Re:

    Nice one, Cletus. Does your sister/wife know you talk like that?

     

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  123.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 7:51pm

    Re:

    You forgot " big nosed kyke" "buck toothed chink" and "bob"

     

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    JMT (profile), Aug 9th, 2012 @ 8:57pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Every single one of those articles contains multiple links to sources of info used by the author to form an opinion. You know how links work right?

     

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  125.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 9:47pm

    Re: Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    As someone who is repeated accused of being a troll simply for defending a different opinion

    No, bob, we don't think you're a troll. We think you're a shill. There's a difference between the two, but often enough the lines blur to the point that some ACs who post here can be considered shitrolls.

    So no, it's not a practical joke.

    I don't think it's a joke either; I believe that you are someone who has a deep loathing of fair use, libraries and innocent-before-guilty. You think that a publishing company that is penalised for violating its contract has to do with copyright laws and that agreeing with this action somehow means we want stronger copyright. You support the methods of John Steele because you're an independent producer... whatever the hell that means. I don't know; I have no idea of works you produce or if you actually produce anything at all. For all I know you could just be in this issue because you like to watch lawyers make money or something.

    No, bob, you're beyond a joke. Nobody could be this persistently, obsessively obtuse and oblivious. You're bordering on the edges of menace.

    We're not joking when we say we think you're wrong. We really mean it.

    Who the hell is this "we"? Is it some collective like Torrentfreak's Anon whose only purpose is to gloat at everyone else, claiming that everyone will get their three strikes and they'll be up there mocking us?

    You can take comfort, bob, in the fact that I believe you mean it. I believe you mean to be a psychopath devoid of any attachment to reality.

     

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  126.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 9th, 2012 @ 10:28pm

    Re: Re: Trolling isn't a joke-- you're just denying people disagree

    When he says WE, he means the copyright shill groups he's obviously associated with. No sane person speaks like the borg collective.

     

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    PaulT (profile), Aug 10th, 2012 @ 1:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    "Interesting that you demand citations yet have none of your own to offer to support the usual Techdirt narratives surrounding judicial corruption, AA control over DoJ, Demonoid and Megaupload seizures, etc. "

    That's because - stop me if I'm going too quickly here - I've NEVER made those claims. Those claims have been made by others, sometimes backed with citations, sometimes presented purely as opinions. I happen to agree with some of those opinions, partially agree with others (although I feel they overreach) and don't agree with the rest.

    Unfortunately, your pea brain appears incapable of separating my personal opinions from those of others, so you attack a strawman based on claims I've never made and opinions I've never held.

    On the other hand, YOU are making the claim that the opinions held by others here are wrong. I'm simply asking you to cite the data on which you're basing that conclusion.

    "Unless your citation consists solely of your observation of "suspicious timing"- which isn't worth a bucket of warm spit."

    I stated an opinion based on the evidence currently available to me. Unless you have more/alternative evidence (in which case, cite it), my opinion is just as valuable as yours. We can discuss it if you wish, but you've already shown yourself unwilling to do anything other than reject the opinions of others because they don't match yours. Pathetic.

     

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  128.  
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    DataShade (profile), Aug 10th, 2012 @ 2:47am

    http://incisive.nu/2012/how-to-kill-a-troll/#comment-608711799

    I've been saying that for a while, and where I expect people to get mad at me for saying it =P

     

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  129.  
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    DataShade (profile), Aug 10th, 2012 @ 2:49am

    Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Isn't dismissing someone as a troll a form of denial?

     

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    DataShade (profile), Aug 10th, 2012 @ 2:51am

    Re: Re: Re:

    If a troll takes it too far or no one laughs, there's really no chance of a graceful dismount OR EVEN AN APOLOGY, as the apology of a troll - "it was just a joke" comes far too close to the reply of an unrepentant bully: "can't you take a joke?"

     

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  131.  
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    Ninja (profile), Aug 10th, 2012 @ 4:17am

    And an article about trolling turns into a troll fest. Classic!

     

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  132.  
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    ethorad (profile), Aug 10th, 2012 @ 6:22am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "Ok, I'll poor ink on your suit as you head into work, rig the office chair in your cubicle to fall the moment you sit on it, and do it day after day after day like a common troll to see how long it takes for me to get fired or for you to send in a report."

    As you suspect, the answer is not very long. However that's not the point. In that example you would, presumably, classify what you were doing as pranking or practical joking. I would call it harassment or trolling.

    My point is those on the receiving end of the nastier trolls have a different opinion of what's going on that the perpetrators. One action, two names. Both cause hassle for someone else for your own amusement.

    And with each there are levels - if you switched my mouse around occasionally or used dry humour like your father it is on a very different level to causing physical damage or similar with practical jokes.

     

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  133.  
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    llortamai, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 8:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    Alright, I'll play nice. You'd be surprised at how nice I can actually be (mostly brought on by the fact that you collected yourself after what I saw as a little tantrum....it appears I was wrong about that).

    First, it was meant as a joke. I use llortamai when I want people to know that a troll is coming (read it backwards). When I want to do some serious, more subtle trolling I pick something else or go AC. What you see above is not my usual MO. I do introduce others to trolling, and I do go on the occasional 'bully' kick, but on the whole I just look for the active trolls in a community that get people's panties in a bunch, copy their style, and add something so far out there that no one is sure if I'm a troll or deep cover. I have a fantastic time doing it too. I'm not one of those sad sacks that sits on the internet all day looking for someone to troll. I come out twice a week or so during breaks from work or while I'm waiting on my wife to get home. It's a hobby, the same way some people build model airplanes or play an instrument.

    I actually enjoyed your list comparing my original list with bullying. I don't agree with all points, but there were some very good, thoughtful responses there that we should debate sometime. Here and now is not the place, but I'm sure if you keep coming here you'll see me again.

    As far as your comment about me being a 12 year old: For someone who claims to be a bit of a troll whisperer ("downing" them) I'm surprised you went there. That usually just enrages people or sends them to troll under a different name. They aren't taken down, they're momentarily displaced. Once in a while you'll find one that will point out that just because that's the way that you choose to live your life doesn't mean it is the way the rest of us live. Sometimes you'll even find one that is gracious enough to apologize for any noises you might have heard last night (although not the really deviant ones that make the weirdest noises).

    What might really surprise you about someone like me is that while this list was a joke, I live by rule number 11. I give to charity, volunteer, and I am generally very kind in real life.

    I'm sorry if you are butthurt over a list buddy. However, it just proves that it did its job. It was a blatant, ham-fisted way to troll and by feeding me you got caught up in it. The only way to really kill off a troll for good is to ignore them entirely. Debating someone who has no skin in the game doesn't make a bit of difference. Sad attempts at making fun of someone who doesn't know you and doesn't care about your opinion of them isn't downing one. Eventually we just get bored and walk away to troll someone else.

    I've kept this (mostly) civil to educate you on the real way to down a troll, and to show you that you are so very, very wrong in so many ways. I wasn't kidding when I said I'd like to have an actual debate on the list sometime. You seem like you are a really smart dude when you're not hurling infantile insults like a 5 year old whose feelings were hurt.

    Remember, there is no actual debate with someone who is in troll mode. There is no shutting them down with reason and logic. Frothing at the mouth and hurling insults just makes me feel that I've done my job in riling someone up. The only way to shut them down is to get a large enough portion of a community to ignore them long enough so that they lose interest and walk away.

     

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  134.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 10:06am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "If a troll takes it too far or no one laughs, there's really no chance of a graceful dismount OR EVEN AN APOLOGY..."

    It was just one tweet!

     

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  135.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 10:18am

    Re: Re: Re:

    sounds like my therapist

     

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  136.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 10:19am

    Re: Re: Re:

    sounds like my troll therapist

     

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  137.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 10:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    Stock up while available, makes the best iced tea!

    And they think we drink kool-aid. LOL

     

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  138.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 10:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No, trolling is worse. IT's a way to live in denial

    "It was probably wise for a new judge to be assigned to maintain the appearance of judicial impartiality," I believe maintain the appearance of judicial impartiality says it all.

     

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  139.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 2:50pm

    It's called freedom of speech/freedom of the press. Deal with it.

     

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  140.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 3:55pm

    Re:

    why do you think the op's post was so short? HE knew what he was doing.

     

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  141.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 10th, 2012 @ 5:31pm

    Re:

    And these days, everybody's a "victim" of something. Victim of this, victim of that...get over it!

     

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  142.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 10th, 2012 @ 5:56pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules for Life

    Maybe you should not have said this:

    "I could certainly see how an oversensitive douchenozzle wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone pushing you and stealing your lunch money and some words typed on the intertubes that you could ignore."

    You also should have explained all of that list. You tried a good cover, but the fact is you are still a troll.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  143.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 11th, 2012 @ 11:54am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The fact that you called DCX2 a "fucking moron" indicates you had no real thought on the matter. He is right about that.

    I'll explain this calmly to you. People who were victimized to the point of being "butthurt" is a sign that they feel victimized and potentially traumatized by the ammount of trolling done. What a devient troll fails at doing is realizing there is a point to stop. It's more tantamount to bullying in most cases.

    I was severely victimized by a devient troll at one point. I have seen the ENTIRE spectrum of trolls in my lifetime after it. If someone feels hurt or upset by your actions, is it not the right thing to do and stop in consideration of somebody else's feelings? Even if it isn't you, you can see how it effects the one person. Don't get me wrong, but there is a difference between getting a rise out of someone, and totally attacking them on a personal level just for fun.

    As for netiquette, most people fail to read jokes or sarcasm in text unless it's painfully obvious. That is because you cannot see the body language of the person conveying the message. The type of trolling that causes traumatization is tantamount to being a bully. I've had a few patients in my time come in from such traumatuzation and after experiencing it first hand myself, I think that I have a better perspective on where to put my gaurd up.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  144.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 11th, 2012 @ 12:15pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "If a troll takes it too far or no one laughs, there's really no chance of a graceful dismount OR EVEN AN APOLOGY, as the apology of a troll - "it was just a joke" comes far too close to the reply of an unrepentant bully: "can't you take a joke?"
    [ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]"

    DataSheet, you raise an excellent point. I think those types of appologies are quite unacceptable. You made me think a bit about it and I have a good compromising thought on appologies that I think we could both agree upon. I am not debating your statement, I'm just trying to establish where I think the grounds of apologies are.

    I didn't initially mean those types of apologies, but you are correct. Some do not stop and don't mean it. What I mean by "apologize" is coming to the realization that you hurt someone. Might not have been your intention to hurt the person, but you did. There are many ways to make a very genuine and sincere apology. As you pointed out (in context), most of the ones that continue to laugh at how traumatized you are don't really carry any sincerity.

    It's when the apologies are given by a person who feels really bad about their actions, sympathize with the person they traumatized, and are sensitive enough not to continue on trolling are the ones that are sincere.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  145.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 11th, 2012 @ 12:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Precisely :-) I have seen all spectrums of trolling and experienced them. I have a pretty good idea as to where the nastier ones go. I am sorry for lashing out on you like that, and I now see your point.

    The one thing I'm sure you've considered is that each person has his or own limits of the amount they can take. The only thing I can say is that if you troll without butthurting someone, annoying them and others to pieces, and generally give the person a chance to breathe about it, then you're a very awesomely wonderful troll.

    The way I see it, the amount of traumatization someone receives is based on their psychological limit of being picked on. Translation: it's in the eye of the beholder. That means the person being victimized should be able decide for themselves when enough is enough and will express it. Now if you cannot recognize that when someone says they are victimized (note it has to be a genuine feeling of being victimized), and don't stop if asked in general, then the trolling would be considered at a bullying/harrassment level.

    Just to be clear I quite agree with you. I felt I should add a bit to the collective thought at hand.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  146.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 11th, 2012 @ 12:59pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "sounds like my troll therapist"

    You miss the point of trolling. Not only do you lack the capacity to comprehend the words written here, you seem to have a singular wit. Nobody is laughing with you and are more likely laughing at your stupidity. I hope that you not do this on any other topic discussions, you're just making a bigger hole for your grave for other trolls to laugh at. Maybe you do need a bit of psychotherapy yourself.

    Don't give me the "I was only joking" bit, you thought yourself funny. You have the right to laugh at your own stupidity.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  147.  
    icon
    jcash (profile), Nov 19th, 2013 @ 3:07am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Harrassment

    Now that isn't a very nice thing to say about someone Wally.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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