Will The RIAA Need To Start Worrying About 3D Printed Records Next?

from the the-world-is-changing dept

We've been predicting for a while now that 3D printing is an area of disruption that is going to lead to legal disputes. Our expectations were that as tangible goods makers were disrupted in the same manner as content producers, it was only a matter of time. But what if 3D printing continued to disrupt content producers as well? Hephaestus points us to a story about how Amanda Ghassaei, from Instructables, is experimenting with 3D printing vinyl records. As you can see in the video below, she's using a super high-end machine, and the output is very limited for now (in both the amount of a song that can be produced and the quality -- which is not great), but it's not hard to imagine how this will improve over time:
It is, of course, noteworthy, that her sample records all are of popular music for which it is unlikely she holds the copyright. It seems unlikely that anyone is actually going to go after her for copyright infringement, but it's yet another area where the technology is likely to be way ahead of laws that attempt to block "copying." And, yes, the full explanation for how to do this has been posted to the Instructables site, though you'll need a very high end printer to match the (already limited) quality of Ghassaei's records. For what it's worth, Ghassaei has also chosen to post some of the 3D models to The Pirate Bay's 3D printing site as well, and that appears to include more music covered by copyright -- so perhaps we'll see the labels freak out already just because of any association with TPB, even if almost no one can actually do anything with this, and the few who can might get a version of the music much crappier than something you'd record off the radio.


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  1.  
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    S. T. Stone, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 4:12pm

    So, when do we get the 3DIAA?

     

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    MrWilson, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 4:14pm

    How long until some IP maximalist proposes a "you must be a criminal" tax on 3d printers and materials in order to compensate IP holders since it will be assumed, falsely, that popular trademarks and copyrighted content owned by large corporations will be the primary type of models that will get printed?

     

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    jameshogg (profile), Dec 27th, 2012 @ 4:25pm

    If it were up to some IP maximalists, the internet and 3D printers would have never been invented at all. And the other, more hypocritical IP maximalists will use them to gain profit while also claiming they are the enemy.

    And they would also have it so that they get first-sale on everything, making it illegal to sell second hand multimedia. Defend the rights of ReDigi until the very end.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 4:26pm

    The whole MAFIAA fight is just a warmup. 3D printing could be the most disruptive force of our era.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 4:50pm

    Re:

    I am surprised it hasn't happened already. These things are hard to predict, but I think it is unlikely that a 3d-printer will be legal in 10 years without a highly sofisticated DRM-filter both at the software level and the hardware level!

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:10pm

    Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    In any available medium IF you have a legal copy first. You can even put a hi-fi copy onto VHS tape if you have the right machine. Where copyright draws the line is at making copies for others.

    More of your senseless ninnying.





    A special talent: where the ordinary person would write "adverse publicity" and be understood...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
    Mike "Streisand Effect" Masnick makes you take a link and spend a minute JUST to learn HIS term!

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:18pm

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    Blah, blah, blah....

    Report and move on.

    It's that easy.

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:24pm

    Don't give them any ideas!

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:37pm

    "it's not hard to imagine how this will improve over time:"

    Yes, Mike, it's NOT difficult to imagine. However, the gulf between your imagination and practical reality is immense, as you'd know had ever done anything practical. You imagine that you know economics, but without sweating at hard physical labor all day, you don't understand it a bit.

    3D printing will never be much more than a toy just as regular printers and scanners were a fad now past. In theory you can reproduce books rather well, but in practice it's expensive and time-consuming. And that's just simply putting ink on paper, orders of magnitude less complex than anything 3D.

    I have at hand a nice clock made by "Quartz", or at least that's the only branding on it besides "West Germany". Let's say that 3D printers advance to being able to make all of its PLASTIC parts, and let's say that all of its electronics and the few metal bits were available elsewhere so that I had a complete clock kit: now, how would the average dolt ever assemble it even with detailed instructions, and who would spend extra money and time just to make a standard clock? Same principle applies with everything: a few techno-geeks might build fairly large mechanical clocks (sort of: those require metal springs and are trickier to assemble and then have run accurately than you weenies think), and a few other attractive TOYS can be made. But 3D printing is never going to be an "anything machine", that's sheer imagination.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:41pm

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    Huh? You're the one who keeps spamming that link.

    Wait, are you claiming to *be* Mike? That's a whole new level of nutty.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:50pm

    It's kind of weird how meta this is getting: is it illegal to share a sequence of numbers that tells a computer how to tell a machine to make an object that another machine can use to generate a signal that vibrates speakers to produce sounds similar to those that someone has copyrighted?

    Or, if you include TPB in it:

    Is it illegal to give people a list of numbers that tell computers where to access other numbers that when put together tell a computer how to tell a machine to make an object that another machine can use to generate a signal that vibrates speakers to produce sounds similar to those someone has copyrighted?

    Or, if you drag in the ISP:

    Is it illegal to return a number that tells computers where to find a list of numbers and to translate requests from a computer through a series of computers that finally reaches a computer that will that tell computers where to access other numbers that when put together tell a computer how to tell a machine to make an object that another machine can use to generate a signal that vibrates speakers to produce sounds similar to those someone has copyrighted, and to then transmit arbitrary numbers back from that computer that has those lists back through a series of computers to the computer that made the request in the first place?

    Man, technology is CRAZY.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:51pm

    Re: Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    @Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:18pm

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.
    Blah, blah, blah....

    Report and move on.

    It's that easy.
    ---------------

    Is your rabid "reporting" working? I don't think are enough of you doing it (or haven't got a quorum), and I'd like to have my comments made even more attractive cause everyone will want to see what's so horrible, and then when they find I'm reasonable, it undermines the site even more.

    Even if not, ACs calling for knee-jerk clicking and "reporting" like a little Nazi who can't stand opposition to Glorious Leader is strong indication to the few chance readers not to waste their time here. Carry on, my unwitting minion: I don't at all want you regulars to shut up. You serve my purposes best by commenting.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:54pm

    Report and move on.


    Excellent advice and done.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:56pm

    Re: Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    @Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:41pm

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.
    Huh? You're the one who keeps spamming that link.

    Wait, are you claiming to *be* Mike? That's a whole new level of nutty.
    -----------------

    My mockery is wasted on Mike's fanboy-trolls: I can't do better than the lack of comprehension exampled by this "AC".

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 5:56pm

    Re:

    oops - I forgot to include Google in there between TBP and ISP. Someone else can shoulder that burden though, it's way too complicated to get the interaction between spiders and indexing and search.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 6:01pm

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    You can even put a hi-fi copy onto VHS tape if you have the right machine


    You're probably too young to remember just how close we were to losing our legal right to do that.

    I imagine the same legal battle will be fought over 3D printers, only this time, they'll be prepared to fight it and will probably win.

     

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  17.  
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    Shadow Dragon (profile), Dec 27th, 2012 @ 6:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    Not exactly OOTB,you're just not worth time because you're predictable and pathetic.

     

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  18.  
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    Shadow Dragon (profile), Dec 27th, 2012 @ 6:07pm

    Re:

    Also giving a taste of their own medicine.

     

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  19.  
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    Shadow Dragon (profile), Dec 27th, 2012 @ 6:10pm

    Re: Re: Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    Predictable as ever,I wonder if you're real person behind that or you're just pretend to be idiotic maximalist.

     

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  20.  
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    RD, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 6:29pm

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    "Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.
    In any available medium IF you have a legal copy first"

    So I can make legal copies of my DVDs and Blurays and put them on my local (home) network so I dont have to keep putting discs in my machines? Right? RIGHT?

    A douchebag says what? (thats you)

     

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  21.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 7:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    Is just your glorious reasons are lame dude.

     

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    Mr. Applegate, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 7:24pm

    Re: "it's not hard to imagine how this will improve over time:"

    "3D printing will never be much more than a toy just as regular printers and scanners were a fad now past. In theory you can reproduce books rather well, but in practice it's expensive and time-consuming. And that's just simply putting ink on paper, orders of magnitude less complex than anything 3D."

    OOTB, you really don't get out much do you? Printers and scanners are not a 'fad', and are still quite regularly used to make copies of pages of books, and more often than you might think copies of entire books. Try looking in schools, just for a start.

    If you knew anything at all about technology, 3D printing is used for many practical applications, such as modeling and mold making. And like the original Xerox what once was of poor quality and expensive becomes high quality and inexpensive.

    Printers are used when the volume required is low, because the time and costs required for plate making and traditional printing a low volume is higher and slower than using a laser printer. The same is true for 3d printing. It is used when the volume required is low, or for prototyping.

    " 3D printing is never going to be an "anything machine""
    I don't think anyone claimed it would be. 3d printing IS a valid and valuable technology that has a number of uses, and 3d printing a record is a nearly perfect example of a use for a low volume. Practical reality is much closer than you imagine.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 7:55pm

    I don't know about the RIAA at the moment but Stratasys and Indiegogo both are very concerned at the moment about some 3D projects.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/aspiring-gun-maker-3d-printer-revoked-plans-p rint-firearms-article-1.1173583

    Stratasys repossessed a leased printer and Indiegogo booted the project from crowdsourcing funds.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 7:56pm

    Not ahead of the laws

    "but it's yet another area where the technology is likely to be way ahead of laws that attempt to block 'copying.'"

    No, not really. The medium should be irrelevant. I can copy an LP, a tape, a CD, an MP3, and whatever the next great thing is, but whether it's infringing doesn't depend on which of those it is, or on whether I use a 3D printer or not.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 8:05pm

    3D printing is awesome but yeah RIAA is probably going to freak out when people can print their own CD's.

     

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  26.  
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    MrWilson, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 8:21pm

    Re: Re:

    It'll be easier to implement while quality 3d printers are priced out of reach for casual users, like CD-R or DVD-R drives when they were $600 instead of $20 on Amazon.com like they are now.

    However, DRM will always fail to one thing or another. Consumer demand will kill anything that technological solutions hasn't. If you come up with a hack-proof DRM scheme, your product won't sell as well as it could.

     

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  27.  
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    MrWilson, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 8:23pm

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 8:23pm

    Re: Re:

    There's also the backbone servers that carry the connection, and the DNS servers. And the computer manufacturers, of course, as well as the individual hardware manufacturers.
    Hopefully not the power companies, but I suppose there have been sillier lawsuits.

    The sequences of numbers themselves are de facto illegal, since copyright infringement is illegal, and the infringing files are just many, many digits of hexadecimal/binary numbers. Kind of mind-warping to think that certain very large numbers are illegal, and you can be fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for writing them down.
    I suppose that makes pirates rogue mathematicians?

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 8:38pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    DNS was "return a number that tells computers where to find a list of numbers" :)

    As for certain numbers being de facto illegal, yes that was the whole point, but moreover the emphasis on that was because that is insane.

     

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  30.  
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    Cranky Old Git, Dec 27th, 2012 @ 11:18pm

    Re: "it's not hard to imagine how this will improve over time:"

    "3D printing will never be much more than a toy just as regular printers and scanners were a fad now past."

    The sheer amount of 'wrong' in your post is only exceeded by it's obviousness. Even a five year old has a better grasp of reality than you do, OOTB. Printers and scanners of all kinds are clearly not a fad considering you can find one or both in the vast majority of homes and businesses out there. There are three scanners and two printers just in my home alone. I'm a 3D artist and let me tell you there is definitely a huge demand for affordable printers which can take a 3D model from ones PC and turn it into something one can hold in their own two hands.

    http://blog.objet.com/2012/08/07/the-incredible-hulk-and-john-carter-get-the-3d-printer-tr eatment/

    http://www.nextengine.com/

    There are two basic types by the way. One takes an empty space and fills it with a volume like the Objet and others. The other begins with a space already filled with a volume and sculpts it by grinding/cutting away material (which can be just about anything). In other words one is additive, the other subtractive. Both are used extensively in many areas of specialization, from mechanical engineering to medical prototyping to art and beyond. And not just statuettes regarding that last one, but things like props used in movies. Your only limitation is your imagination.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vXBXvYfeAk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzGh5xm NpAs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkUVURLkxS4

    I would even include things like computer controlled plasma cutters to some extent since, much like my color laser printer, they're fed raw materials which they alter to create something the user wants. Doesn't matter whether it's paper and toner or plasma and high grade steel. The applications for all types of printers/scanners are endless and incredibly useful, so much so that they will never EVER go away.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YzGPUI9KVQ

    If anything, the complete opposite of what you claim is what will really happen. They will improve, just like all technology does until replaced by something better, and inevitably become more affordable over time. A good example is the laser printer I mentioned. Invented in 1969, the first commercial application was in 1981 at a cost of $17,000.00 netting you a low resolution monochrome printing device. Today you can buy one that can print in color at high resolution for the low low price of $145.99 (a Hewlett Packard currently on sale at NCIX).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_printing

    http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=75195&am p;vpn=CE918A%23BGJ&manufacture=HP%20Printers%20and%20Supplies&promoid=1033

    Sheer imagination you say, OOTB? Every single creation mankind has made since the dawn of time began as nothing more than an imaginative dream. Yes, all of them. If it can be thought up, it can be created. The only limitation on whether an idea can be created or not comes down to how well we understand our physical universe, which just like it is always growing and expanding. All it takes is an open mind, something you clearly don't have and why you keep coming to all the wrong conclusions repeatedly.

    I'll just close by saying there was a time when one had to employ a service bureau if they wanted anything scanned and/or printed. I know this because I used them extensively for my photography prior to the turn of the century. The devices required, especially if you needed high res and excellent quality, cost a fortune at the time. Eventually they got to a point where they were very compact, the cost was trivial (especially for a working pro), and they were out-resolving the film.

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/SCAN/KM5400II/KM5400IIA.HTM

    http://www.epson.ca/cgi-bin/ ceStore/jsp/ProductCategory.do?oid=-16586

    Now we're seeing the rise of the service bureaus once again, only this time for 3D. Can you honestly say with 100% certainty that the same pattern as before isn't going to happen? That owning a 3D scanner and 3D printer won't be affordable for everyone some day? If you say yes, you're lying.

     

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  31.  
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    CheMonro (profile), Dec 28th, 2012 @ 12:38am

    Why bother with all this messy physical printing at all? Just create a detailed 3D model of the record, save it as a file, and play it in a simulated record player...

     

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  32.  
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    PaulT (profile), Dec 28th, 2012 @ 1:11am

    Re: "it's not hard to imagine how this will improve over time:"

    "regular printers and scanners were a fad now past."

    Because no modern office has any of these devices and they're never used on a daily basis by hundreds of millions of people? But, they're only a fad because a ridiculously impractical use you've cherry picked isn't something people do on a daily basis by most people (handily ignoring the hundreds of other uses that are, and which disrupt industries that existed before them quite easily)?

    Yet again, I hope you're a parody or a deliberate troll, because I don't like the idea of someone this stupid having voting rights.

     

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    Mr. Applegate, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 1:22am

    Re: Re: Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    Well I won't speak for others, but I certainly have no leader here, let alone a "Glorious Leader".

    I am also quite grateful when your posts are buried, not because I don't want to read opposing viewpoints, but because I don't have the time or energy to waste reading completely illogical, misinformed, often personal and obvious attacks that are at best non-sequitur and troll like.

    Furthermore, it is blatantly obvious you have zero interest in having a discussion of the topic(s) and your only purpose is to troll, since it is the only way you can gain any sense of self worth, which is actually quite pathetic.

    Frankly, I wish they would bury any thread reported from the point reported on, because I then would not be subjected to the responses either and it would not raise awareness of your posts by replying to them.

     

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    Mr. Applegate, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 1:35am

    Re: Re: "it's not hard to imagine how this will improve over time:"

    "Yet again, I hope you're a parody or a deliberate troll, because I don't like the idea of someone this stupid having voting rights.""

    While I understand the sentiment, and it is a scary proposition that people such as OOTB can vote it is a necessary evil to allow everyone to vote. Unfortunately, there are entirely too many, who like OOTB do not look at things with logic and reasoning and who are unwilling to seek knowledge or facts before casting their ballots.

    What is even more scary is that the internet seems to enbolden those unwilling to look at the facts and make reasoned decisions based on them.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 4:34am

    lol.

    "Open the pod bay doors, HAL".

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 4:39am

    Re: Not ahead of the laws

    Someone hasn't been following the attempts by the MPAA and RIAA, then.

     

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    Michael, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 4:53am

    Re: Not ahead of the laws

    In many places, the media you use does make a difference.

    Take the example in the article - in the UK, you pay a levy on CDR's that is supposed to basically license you to make legal personal copies. Her 3D printer has no associated levy - so it could be found to be infringing when copying a CD is not.

    In addition, you are looking at an example where there are currently IP laws already attached in some way. What about copying a chair? In the US at least, it is perfectly legal to copy the design of a chair and build another one. Will it be illegal to scan and copy one with out 3D printer?

    Staples has started a pilot program (I think the the Netherlands) where they are putting 3D printers in their stores and you can send them a design to print and go pick it up. How do IP laws apply to someone who wants to print a replacement part for something that they would have previously have had to purchase from the manufacturer? What if I want to print a replacement emblem for a car I am rebuilding?

    As these printers get better and cheaper, they are going to wreak havoc in the manufacturing and shipping industries. It will not be long before someone lobbies for a law that you have to walk in front of your 3D printer waiving flags.

     

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    Michael, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 4:55am

    Re:

    Quick - go get your patent. You should also patent some kind of crappy DRM on the thing.

     

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  39.  
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    The Real Michael, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 5:59am

    It's simple, really

    The content industries arrogantly believe that the ability to produce something, whether preexisting or original, physical or nontangible (i.e. data), is a right reserved exclusively for themselves. This is why we're seeing more and more walled gardens, because they mean to deny us the ability to create and share anything -- our sole purpose is to shut up and consume their products.

    It's only a matter of time before they wage war against 3D printers. Anything which gives the public the means to create must be inherently criminal in nature.

     

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    Glenn, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 7:10am

    Man, that's funny...

    using 21st century technology to replicate 18th century technology in order to produce pretty lousy audio (even the best vinyl isn't that good--unless you really love that "warm" scratchy sound of a stylus being dragged through a groove, and if so, then you should avoid live concerts because you'll be really disappointed with the total lack of "warmth").

     

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    mett, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 7:58am

    if ya talk only about vinyls,
    allow me to tell you it s a niche market big corps
    have given up many years ago -which is kewl by the way-
    (look at the customs rate for 12",,no rate).

    For other things, like sneakers etc;
    then it s a diff story and for sure disruption will h4ppened...

     

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    Hephaestus (profile), Dec 28th, 2012 @ 8:28am

    Re: Re: Re:

    DRM on 3D printers will not work at all. Since the idea behind 3D printers is to design, modify, and create your own designs. It would be like putting DRM on a home inkjet or laser-jet printer and requiring an external agency to authorize each print job.

     

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  43.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Dec 28th, 2012 @ 8:40am

    Re:

    Didn't you get the memo? People do not use CD's any more.

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Dec 28th, 2012 @ 9:51am

    Re: Mike, it's already NOT illegal to make copies for yourself.

    Where copyright draws the line is at making copies for others.


    Not really. You're right that it's legal to make personal use copies, but thanks to copyright law, it's not legal to break the DRM that's stopping you even if it's for a legal purpose.

    Copyright law therefore draws the line well short of making copies for others.

     

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    txpatriot, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 1:22pm

    3-d gun printing

    All of you who support the right of 3-d copyright piracy will be the first to scream that 3-d printing of guns s/b banned.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 1:22pm

    3D-printers should have been affordable for almost anyone already if it wasn't for patents.
    Next disruption might be done by replicators.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 28th, 2012 @ 2:03pm

    Record copy

    Do you really think people are going to be happy going back from digital to Blue-Ray, to DVD, to CD to analog cassette, to 8 Track to vinyl? I don't think so. It would be a rather small niche market. Not really worth the effort.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    icon
    DannyB (profile), Jan 2nd, 2013 @ 7:17am

    I want a 3D printed mp3 player

    I want my next 3D printed cell phone, camera, wallet, ebook reader device to come preloaded with every song, movie and book that has ever been recorded in human history.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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