Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

from the extradition-edition dept

First, two big wins against getting extradited from a country where you weren't breaking the law to a country where--regardless of whether you were or not--powerful enemies will almost certainly destroy your life for something awesome you did on the Internet: America!

New Zealand High Court: FBI Must Release Its Evidence Against Kim Dotcom
US, UK Betray Basic Values To Get Assange At Any Cost

Put yourself in Assange's shoes and imagine how amazing it will feel to walk off that jet onto an Ecuadorian tarmac. I have no idea how he gets out of London, but I wish Assange and everyone involved the best of luck. Publishing documents from a whistleblower on your website is not something you should go to jail (or worse, be executed!) for.

Next up, some great work by our friends at Demand Progress:

Both Republicans And Democrats Considering Supporting Basic Internet Freedom Principles With New Platforms

Third, three Russian activists get 2 years in jail for making a Youtube video against Putin. Upcoming ITU negotiations could give Putin significantly more control over the Internet. This is a great reminder of how Putin's Russia treats free expression online.

Russia Confirms To The World That It's Not A Fan Of Free Speech: Pussy Riot Gets Two Years In Jail

Finally, I'm psyched to see my home state of Massachusetts back off its cease and desist against taxi competitor Uber, after Cambridge, MA busted an Uber driver on a humorously archaic technicality concerning "weights and measures". But when will Uber make it to Worcester?

Massachusetts Realizes That Maybe GPS Isn't Too Newfangled After All; Reverses Order & Allows Uber


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 12:28pm

    The U.S.

    Isn't a fan of Free Speech either, and it's getting more obvious

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 12:48pm

    Pussy Riot will go to jail for an action against Vladimir Putin in a church. Youtube-video and several other activistic activity probably did not help them, but it is not the official reason for making them jailbabes!

     

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  3.  
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    Atkray (profile), Aug 18th, 2012 @ 1:24pm

    I too have been wondering how Ecuador plans to get Assange out of the embassy.

    I'm favoring a helicopter from a ship waiting in international waters.

     

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  4.  
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    Richard (profile), Aug 18th, 2012 @ 1:40pm

    Re:

    I would consult the magic circle if I were them.

    Of course if they have - then the money would be on the theory that he has already left - or was never actually there in the first place.

     

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  5.  
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    anonymous asshole, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 1:58pm

    Re: Re:

    I say send in the stunt man..

     

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  6.  
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    Richard (profile), Aug 18th, 2012 @ 2:04pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    They could of course upload him via an encrypted peer to peer application...

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 5:06pm

    Sad state of things

    Some Russian band no one here has ever heard of before gets sent to jail and it gets reported everywhere. From Techdirt to CNN.

    Meanwhile, one of our own, Randy Blythe, singer for Lamb of God out of Richmond, Virginia sat in a Czech prison for 38 days on trumped up manslaughter charges and no one in this country outside of the metal community said a word. Basically, 2 years ago while playing a show there, a stage diver cracked his head and later died. Our government knew of the charges against him but didn't bother to notify him or the band. The band arrived in June to do a show and a Czech S.W.A.T. team grabbed him getting off the plane, threw him in prison, then for the next month the prosecution there jerked him around and held him even after posting $400,000 bail. All the while our embassy there and our government here did nothing to help.

    http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/lamb-of-gods-randy-blythe-if-im-called-to-return-to-prague-i-w ill/

    http://www.nme.com/news/lamb-of-god/65465

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 6:22pm

    Re:

    Simply, Assange is very unlikely to get out of the UK unless there is a negotiated settlement - or if the government decides to play a trick to hide him and get him out of the country.

    I suspect that what is more likely to happen is that the UK will revoke the diplomatic privileges of Ecuador, and give their diplomats a short time to leave. Then it's only a matter of time before Assange has to pop out of his hidey hole.

    As someone else mentioned, it's pretty funny to watch a guy so desperate not to face up to his own actions that he would take his "free speech" loving self to a country with some of the worst civil rights around. Nothing says guilty like selling out completely to save your own ass.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 6:59pm

    First, two big wins against getting extradited from a country where you weren't breaking the law

    New rule: you shouldn't be able to be extradited from a country where you didn't break the law.

     

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  10.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 7:08pm

    assange is not going to leave that embassy , until he steals a whole bunch of files that he can post in the interweb..

    btw: assange is not being extradited because of the US but because he has an extradition order from Sweden..

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 7:10pm

    Re:

    he did break the law in the UK as well, so where does that put your idea ??

    get a hold of the fact before you talk shit..

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 7:11pm

    Re: Re:

    he was under specific bail orders, which he broke, therefore he is a criminal under UK law...

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 7:13pm

    Re: Sad state of things

    totally differnece situation, as you should know, manslaughter is not the same as political protect.. get a clue..

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 7:13pm

    Re:

    because after all assange is a coward..

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 7:16pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    except it would be leaked.. !!!

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 7:19pm

    Re:

    Sorry, everything on this blog must be blamed on the US and its RIAA/MPAA-run goverment.

    Get with the program.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 8:08pm

    Re: Re: Sad state of things

    First of all, there was no manslaughter. This was the result of a stage diver who repeatedly climbed up on the stage to dive off into the crowd. He was told by security to stay off the stage but he persisted to his own detriment.

    The similarities lie in the fact that both of these situations are pure political failures. In Russia, the government went after their citizens and jailed them, here the government just didn't bother to lift of finger to help free their citizen.

    If you still don't feel that's enough, compare it to the Amanda Knox situation. The Amanda Knox ordeal was plastered all over the news, both local and national. The government assisted any way they could. Not so in the case of Randy Blythe. Complete silence.

    My gripe is not about Techdirt not covering this. My gripe is about the media in general not covering this. Do you think it would be the same if it happened to Britney Spears?

     

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  18.  
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    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Aug 18th, 2012 @ 8:11pm

    Re: Re:

    Yes, because being extradited in order to be questioned is such a non-issue. I mean, if you id nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. Right? Isn't that how this works?

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 8:45pm

    Re: Sad state of things

    Most metal sucks.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 8:59pm

    Re: Re: Sad state of things

    To each his own.

     

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  21.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 18th, 2012 @ 10:20pm

    Re:

    Putin had to have seen it coming. Did anyone really expect a band called PUSSY riot to be quiet and inoffensive?

     

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  22.  
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    ebilrawkscientist (profile), Aug 18th, 2012 @ 10:29pm

    Putin Pie

    Now lets see how many youtube videos show up on the web ripping holes thru Putin's ruskie gubbermints from foreign interests outside Russia... gotta be some... y'think they'd try extradition on those to Russia? If so the worlds gona be in a lotta hurt.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 1:31am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Zach, all I can say is that I am shocked that you think you are wiser than the entire British justice system, which allowed Mr Assange a near endless number of appeals. In each case, Assange and his legal team came up with nothing at all.

    I will notify the Queen that a superior judicial being can be found on Techdirt.

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 1:41am

    Re: Re: Sad state of things

     

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  25.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 4:40am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    This is the same British Justice system that blocked pedophiles from being extradited to face charges for fear of their human rights being violated and then threw a young man to the US for the huge "crime" of posting links?

    The same British Justice system that somehow fails to understand basic concepts of the internet, and gave a sentence to the admin of STC beyond what the law recommended?

    The same British Justice system that wants to get Assange out of the country to avoid being the ones who tossed him over to the US so they can claim the moral high ground?

    The same British Justice system that helped in the rendition of dissidents back to a country where they knew they would be tortured, to help protect their oil price?

    Let me know when I'm close...

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 4:43am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ooo appeal to autority fallacy.

    Maybe next you can can do argumentum ad hitlerum.

    By the way "hitlerum" sounds like some sort of anti-semite element. SCIENCE TIME

     

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  27.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 4:45am

    Re:

    An extradition order to be questioned while they are still gathering evidence.

    Sweden... a country that ignored their own laws and raided TPB in violation of Swedish law to avoid the US doing something bad to them.

    Sweden a country that will cave and extradite Assange as soon as he sets foot on their soil to answer for "crimes" the US has been trumping up for months.

     

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  28.  
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    drew (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 4:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    surely that would be hitlerium? Ht perhaps? With a half life of 28 years?

     

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  29.  
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    drew (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:06am

    Re: Re:

    Yep, both Sweden and the UK have a disappointing recent history of bending over to the US in cases like this.
    Like or loathe Assange, you're being willfully abstruse if you can't see that he has reason to fear the absence of a fair trial.
    If he even gets a trial at all.

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:12am

    Re: Re:

    Equador. who decimated the INCA's,

    how has 90% of kids reach the 5th grade !!!!

    and the spanish inquisition !.. fingertip grip on a stable political system. Often resorts to military coup's and expolsions. who has an embassy in the UK at the pleasure of the UK, that is not a right, but a priviledge, and can be revoked at any time, should that priviledge be abused.

    UK thinks it is being abused..

    They have a huge amount more to lose from this that the UK or sweden has.. they have allready lost their international and diplomatic reputation.. next commercial.. and Equador needs (ALOT) trade, with the UK, the US and Sweden.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:28am

    Re: Re: Re:

    With who?

    The free falling economies of the US and Europe?

    They could do that or they could go where the real money is right now and that is Asia.

    Maybe that is why they seem to not care that much anymore.

     

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  32.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:31am

    Re: Re: Re: Sad state of things

    seems to me that a manslaughter charge is fully justified by your description of events... the security people have a duty of care that goes beyong 'just asking him to stop', and if that is all they did, and it resulted in someone dying, then they have been negligent in their duties, or the band hired people who were not capable of doing the job required of them..

    manslaughter is the correct charge to apply in these conditions, what has that have to do with politics ?.. Governments from another country cannot (generally) interfere with the justice systems of other countries.. if you commit a crime in a country, it is assumed you will face justice within the same country, under the same laws you broke..

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:33am

    Re: Re: Re:

    I always thought that the Spaniards massacred the Inca's, which massacred every other tribe around them.

     

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  34.  
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    Richard (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:33am

    Re: Re:

    I suspect that what is more likely to happen is that the UK will revoke the diplomatic privileges of Ecuador, and give their diplomats a short time to leave. Then it's only a matter of time before Assange has to pop out of his hidey hole.

    They tried threatening that - and then backed down - so I think that is unlikely - besides the Columbian embassy is in the same building - and S. American countries tend to stick together - no the UK does not want to do that.

    My suspicion is that this will drag on untilthe Swedish prosecutor loses interest - at which point he will be quietly allowed to leave - could be a long wait though.

    Nothing says guilty like selling out completely to save your own ass.

    Better than talking out of it!

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    yes, the same british justice system that forms the basis of the US justice system.

    the same system that is like every other country, trying to uphold their international legal obligations, as well as moral and ethical obligations.. as well as their extradition agreements, agreements means all countries agree that is the right thing to do..

    trying to avoid a justice system by trying to game another system is what cowards and guilty people try to do..

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:48am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Really?

    Because if that was the case, Assange should be allowed to leave that according to the treaties that the UK signed.

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:50am

    Re: Re: Re:

    >They tried threatening that - and then backed down..

    SO FAR

    >besides the Columbian embassy is in the same building - >and S. American countries tend to stick together - no the >UK does not want to do that.

    oh yes, who out of Columbia and Ecuador and the UK has more to lose from santions and loss of trade because of Diplomatic breakdown ?

    >My suspicion is that this will drag on untilthe Swedish prosecutor loses interest..

    Except, Sweden has issued and extradition notice on Assange, and the UK has accepted that. It is now out of the hands of the Swedes until he is on Swedish soil.. and in the hands of the UK authorites.. who have an agreement with Sweden to extradite suspected criminals..

    >Nothing says guilty like selling out completely to save your own ass.

    That I can agree with,,

    Assange has put himself into self imposed custody, just like prison, he has to stay and cant go out.. I bet the Equadorians wont let him anywhere near their internal computers !!!! would you ?

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:52am

    Re: Re: Sad state of things

    most ??? (ALL)..

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:56am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    so according to you there is even less reasons why the UK could care less if Ecidor was assholed out of the UK ? (except for assange)... asia can grow their own bannas, and europe can source their bannas from countries like asia and australia.. trying to sell bannas to asia is like trying to sell ice to someone from a cold place.

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:58am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The UK that needs more food that it can produce locally, besides Ecuador and Colombia have no real contacts with the UK in trade, nothing that can't be replaced by proxy countries.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:07am

    Re: Re:

    Amen, to that

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ecuador:
    GDP: (2011) $127 Billion
    GDP: Per Capita: $4425

    UK:
    GDP: (2011)$2308.5 Billion
    GDP: Per Capita: $36,605

    SO yes, Ecuador needs the UK far more than the UK needs Ecuador, wait until it hurts Ecuadorians in terms of loss of trade, and see who blinks first.. :D

    I know who I have my money on winning....

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:10am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If you source your bananas from Asia you probably be buying them from Ecuador at a higher price all the same, since the Asians buy a lot of food from Latin America.

    Also Ecuador could sell their oil to China instead of Europe.

    Ecuador is a member of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and oil revenues play a major role in the country’s economy.

    http://www.eia.gov/cabs/Ecuador/Full.html

    Do you want to pay more for gas?

     

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  44.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:16am

    Re:

    he is not being extradited for breaking a law, but to make a legal determination if he did or did not break a law..

    major difference, he is being extradited to face a justice system, that will determine that he has broken the law, and punish him accordingly..

    if you saw someone kill your child, and saw them get on a bus to canada, would you say "it's ok, he got away with it, because he managed to get out of the country before he was caught by police " ?

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Those are meaningless, the principal exports for Ecuador are food and oil, both which the UK is desperate about it.

    Here is the situation dude.

    Asia is becoming developed meaning that billions of people are able to buy food now, which means they will put pressure on supply, the same goes for oil.

    The UK after the Falklands doesn't have a good relation with most of the Spanish speaking countries there.

    Not to mention that BP operates in Ecuador that would hurt.

     

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  46.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:20am

    Re: Re: Re:

    So is Cheney under international law.

     

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  47.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Fine boycott Ecuador goods and remove BP from there LoL

     

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  48.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:21am

    Assanage requests more blank CD's

    he wont say why !!!!!!

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    they will leave BP there, so they can have another "accident" with one of their wells..

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ecuador main exports are food and oil, both of which the UK are in dire need because it doesn't produce enough to feed its own people on its own.

    Asia bananas are getting expensive, because they are actually now able to afford to buy their own bananas which puts pressure, the only other place where food is still cheap is Africa which Asians are economic colonizing.

    So please be an a-hole an put at risk all future relations because of one man.

    That would be marvelous.

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:31am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The United Kingdom is the world's fifth-largest trading nation, highly dependent on foreign trade. It must import almost all its copper, ferrous metals, lead, zinc, rubber, and raw cotton and about one-third of its food.


    Here is what is going to happen, the UK has no leverage against Ecuador, none, zero, zilch, nada.

    Ecuador can export its food to Asian countries or other European countries and use those as proxy, the only thing it will do it is to make food more expensive to the UK, further UK companies operate in Ecuador, do you think it would hurt if Ecuador nationalized BP?

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Or they could nationalize it so no more "accidents" happen, just like Venezuela did.

     

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  53.  
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    drew (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:39am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Sad state of things

    disagree with this entirely. If he's been asked to stop and continued I would suggest that, if it were the UK, this is "death by misadventure" though I have idea whether other countries have this concept.

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:46am

    Re: Re:

    Did the US air marshals fleeing Brazil not ok?

    Because when you have made up charges and your own country doesn't even want to guarantee you will not be extradited to another one which wants you dead, I Say it is ok to ignore those laws and get across the border.

     

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  55.  
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    The eejit (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 6:48am

    Re: Re:

    He broke a different law than that to which Sweden have processed a pre-trial interview extradition request.

    I said this last time: Assange should be locked up in the UK for breakign the law here. That is beyond doubt. Then, with co-operation from the UK suthorities, the Swedish prosecutor can then conduct said interview whilst Assange is in prison for contempt of court (breach of bail conditions).

    That would solve both problems at a stroke.

     

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  56.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 7:09am

    Re: Re: Re: Sad state of things

    "First of all, there was no manslaughter."

    Not necessarily true.

    In certain Latin American countries you are guilty of manslaughter in the following situation. If after arriving for the first time in country (eliminating any prior possible local conflict) you hire a taxi cab, set in the back of the cab on the way to hotel, and then the cab has a accident in rout which was plainly not the taxi cab driver's fault. The rational goes is that if you as a rich foreigner had not hired the cab in the first place the accident would not have happened as the cab would not have been where the accident happened thus you are at fault for inducement of an event which resulted in damage. As such you are both financially and criminally liable for the accident.

    One of the big problems here is that since everyone speaks English on this form the assumption is that the basis of English law apply to places where the concepts of English law are a completely alien concept.

     

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  57.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 7:14am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    And when the US decided they no longer needed up extradite their citizens in violation of the law and treaties, but expect everyone else to send them to the US on demand?

    The US that made up laws in the Dotcom case, creating criminal penalties for civil infractions?

    Legality has nothing to do with morals or ethics, it is not moral to send people to jail for drug possession for longer than people that molest children.
    It is not ethical to use threats of longer sentences to get people to accept different charges rather than actually try the case.
    It is not moral or ethical to send people to jail and keep them there when the evidence proves they were innocent but it would damage your win record.

    Assange has STILL not been charged with a crime, but Sweden is trying to game the system so they can hand him over to the US and stay on their good side. When describing people gaming the system look at both sides.

     

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  58.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 7:17am

    " I said this last time: Assange should be locked up in the UK for breakign the law here. "

    Breaking what law .. exactly ? Please be specific.

    " That is beyond doubt. "

    So there has been a trial, and he's been duly convicted then ?

    No ?

     

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  59.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 8:32am

    Re:

    he was under arrest in the UK, you can be under arrest before you are convicted of something, actually that is usually the cast.. you are arrested then you attend court.

    he was under arrest and under specific bail conditions,

    he jumped bail, making him in breach of UK law.. he was under arrest because of swedish law.

    all clear now ??

     

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  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 8:55am

    " all clear now "

    No, not really.

    "he was under arrest in the UK, "

    For what crime .. what was he charged with, specifically.


    What law did he supposedly break ? Why won't you answer that ?

    What UK law did he break to get arrested in the first place.

    What Swedish law did he supposedly break ?

    Nope, not clear at all.

     

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  61.  
    identicon
    TPBGirl, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 11:01am

    Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    Your actually praising HATE speech of the USA? Time to unsubscribe from an anti-american trash rag. I just lost all respect for you guys at Tech Dirt :(

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 11:38am

    Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    Your actually thinking there isn't a reason for it?
    Maybe you should open your eyes to the evil they are doing in your name, instead of jingoistic whining when they are called out for behaving poorly.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 11:56am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I bet the Equadorians wont let him anywhere near their internal computers
    Except, Sweden has issued and extradition notice on Assange, and the UK has accepted that. It is now out of the hands of the Swedes until he is on Swedish soil.. and in the hands of the UK authorites.. who have an agreement with Sweden to extradite suspected criminals..

    I am sure that Sweden remains in a position to quietly withdraw that request.
    >They tried threatening that - and then backed down..

    SO FAR


    The UK foriegn minister looked extremely uncomfortable discussing the threat on UK TV. It seems that the threat was made without the knowledge (let alone consent) of the UK PM and his deputy (both on holiday).
    Remember that this government is a coalition - and one of the parties has a lot of grassroots sympathy for Assange.
    Since the coalition is already fragile I suspect that any attempt to resolve the Assange situation by force would probaly cause a coalition breakup and an election - which neither party wants right now - so I predict it won't happen.

     

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  64.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 11:58am

    Re: Re: Re:

    he was under specific bail orders, which he broke, therefore he is a criminal under UK law...

    Circular argument!

    The bail orders didn't exist before the extradition request!

     

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  65.  
    icon
    G Thompson (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 12:03pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Actually breaching (not breaking) bail conditions is not a criminal offence.

    All it means is that you have voided the bail conditions until at such time that bail is granted again. It means he has to be brought before the courts once again too. Yes the LEO's will have a standard presumption against bail once (if) they arrest him but that is something the charge sergeant at the local station does but they still have to place him before a court for bail to be removed or granted again.

    What can occur is that a bench warrant is placed for his arrest but it is still NOT a crime to breach bail conditions in the UK or other common law countries (the USA??? No clue.. most likely knowing your weird laws its most likely a felony for some stupid reason)

     

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  66.  
    icon
    G Thompson (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 12:13pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I'll let you in on a little secret about S.American countries..

    They don't like to be told that some other country is planning to commit what can be described as an act of war. And that is exactly what it is and how they are treating it (thats why there is a huge extra-ordinaare meeting being held by the whole S.American countries this weekend). If a Country threatened or attempted the same thing to the UK or heaven forbid the USA then it would be absolutely classed as an act of war.

    Diplomacy and the role of Diplomats is sacrosanct it has to be and has been for thousands of years. They are the ones that not only stop wars first, they are the ones that negotiate peace etc During as well! without diplomacy all you have is a big rock (dick) throwing contest.

    Also what you also need to realise about the S.American countries is that brazil and Argentina are included in them.. Two countries the UK really don't want to piss off.. Especially Brazil, huge economy, and even America is wary of pissing them off.

    Assange has put himself into self imposed custody, just like prison, he has to stay and cant go out.. I bet the Equadorians wont let him anywhere near their internal computers !!!! would you ?

    Yes I would let him near my computers, and here's an interesting factoid.. I HAVE! way back in the late 80's (when I was running a BBS) and recently (last 5yrs or so) as well for other matters that are between myself and him.

     

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  67.  
    icon
    G Thompson (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 12:14pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Place Brazil and Argentina into your equations (actually the whole of S.America) and then figure out who has most to lose..

    NOT S.American countries that's for sure

     

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  68.  
    icon
    G Thompson (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 12:16pm

    Re: Re:

    Wrong! there is a comment up above of mine where I delve into bailment and why it is NOT an offence to breach it!

    Next!

     

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  69.  
    icon
    G Thompson (profile), Aug 19th, 2012 @ 12:20pm

    Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    Most non Amerricans (the intelligent ones who know better) do NOt hate America (USA) though they cannot stand the American Government and it's many and varied Establishments and the hypocrisy and Egoistic narcissism they all seem to enjoy.

    If you don't understand that and think that that is "Hate speech" then you really need to actually look up what hate speech is and consider that when the US Government is talking about other countries and ideologies that somehow doesn't conform to their own.

    BTW I am not an Australian with LOTS of friends, colleagues, and associates in the USA and not once have I ever heard what we are stating here being "hate speech'

     

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  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 12:29pm

    Re: Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    to this ac .." Your actually thinking there isn't a reason for it? "

    In other words, you don't know, or there wasn't anything he could have been charged with. That's what I thought. If you don't know the answer just admit it, you'll feel better.

    to the ac's other personality ..

    " Your actually praising HATE speech of the USA? Time to unsubscribe from an anti-american trash rag. I just lost all respect for you guys at Tech Dirt :( "

    As an american let me just say this ..

    Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 1:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Sad state of things

    You don't seem to understand how things work. The security people are hired by the venues, not by the bands. The band's job is simply to perform and entertain. If anyone is to blame it should be the venue and their security (or lack of). It's their job to keep order and protect the fans as well as the bands.

    As for your second point... the U.S. government has been very busy lately interfering in things that SHOULD be left in the hands of other countries. They knew of this situation and what would happen if the band returned there, but the band had no clue. Randy's a stand up guy who has lost a child himself. He knows what this kid's family is going through and wants to help them find some closure, but does not feel he should be the one held responsible. He didn't even know anyone got hurt at their show and had absolutely no clue that there was a death as a result. The only people in the U.S. that knew about any of this was the government and they apparently kept it to themselves.

     

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  72.  
    identicon
    Dreddsnik, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 4:04pm

    Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    " Your actually praising HATE speech of the USA? "

    As an American .. not praising, ACCEPTING that others have a right to view us as douchebags, especially when we act like douchebags. So, is it your belief that anyone who says they hate america needs to be jailed or, perhaps, shot ?

    How American of you.

     

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  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 4:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    what you mean those countries that ecuador have only just recently finished WAR with ??

    Asia allready grows it's own fruits. thay are not interested in buying more.. No Ecuador WILL lose out massive time, all to protect an idiot who deserves and needs to face the consequences of his actions..

     

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  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 4:55pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    yes, possibly, but you clearly dont know shit..

     

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  75.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:02pm

    Re: Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    yes right, you should know !!!! no most hate the "american Attatude'.. that is the attatude of THE PEOPLE and the Government.. but it's people like you who believe everyone LOVES Americans that are somewhat confused..

    It is clear, that most Americans think the rest of the world LOVES them.. also equally clear, most Americans are WRONG on this issue..

    creation believing, bible bashing, gun toting, drug consuming, greedy, constantly in the WRONG WARS (and LOSING).. and trying to drag other countries down with it..

    sub-standard, sub-prime, and you cant even do technology anymore.. (oh yea, and they all think the rest of the world just loves them)..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:08pm

    Re: Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    it's what Americans do, you know they just dont understand these things.. for them American is the centre of the Universe, sure there are some other little insignificant countries in the world, be they dont care, you are Americans..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:12pm

    Re: Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    atually most of the world are glad you have got your current Government, and fully understand the massive damage Bush did to your country.. and are SO glad he will never screw up your country as badly again..

    most see obama as 1000% better than bush, but he is incapble of doing what he wants becuase of the stupid senate, and the requirement to be popular with all the factions and religious nuts to be elected..

    Bush was a train wreck, and pushed your country to the brink of destruction.. and the American people LOVED HIM !!!! (except when they all lost their homes and jobs)..

     

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  78.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    so what ?? guess what you can have order from more than one source, and one does not cancel out the other..

    it does not matter what was first, breaking a court order is called "contempt" and contempt is a criminal act.. it's not a circular argument at all.. you're just simply confused and dont understand basic concepts of law.

     

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  79.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    >Actually breaching (not breaking) bail conditions is not a criminal offence.

    Actually it is, it's called contempt, and is a CRIMINAL ACT, people are imprisioned for breaking an order of the court all the time.. being on bail is the same as sitting in a cell, except they let you out.. if you break the law you can have that bail revoked and you end up in a cell..

    Thomo, do you actually know anything about anything ???

     

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  80.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:27pm

    Re:

    for what crime ?? breach of bail conditions, failing to attend court in sweden, = breaking the law.

    what law did he break, swedish laws (you should know about them) extradition laws, bail laws, understand now ??? btw: that question was allready answered.

    > UK bail laws, international extradition laws, Swedish sex laws..

    you dont know much, it's a wonder you even know how to get on the internet.. (next you just have to learn how to read).

    clear now ?? (I didn't think so).

     

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  81.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 5:28pm

    Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.

    good on you, so I guess you understand WHY most people fell that way about Americans..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 8:14pm

    Re: Re:

    So what, now you want people to undermine all the diplomatic treaties because of weak accusations?

    The UK doesn't even extradite pedophiles but they are willing to undermine diplomacy for Assange?

    Only a fool can't see what this is about and it is not about the law.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 8:16pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Diplomatic treaties superseed local laws.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 8:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wrong Asia is desperate for land, that is why they and the Middle East countries are buying Africa.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/world/americas/27brazil.html?pagewanted=all

    http:// www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9206174.htm

    Outsourcing's third wave
    Rich food importers are acquiring vast tracts of poor countries' farmland. Is this beneficial foreign investment or neocolonialism?

    http://www.economist.com/node/13692889

    The UK since it is a chronicle food importer that have more people than it has land to grow food is also running to grab land wherever it can.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/26/uk-investors-africa-land-summit

    http://www .oaklandinstitute.org/foreign-corporations-scramble-buy-african-land-raising-food-security-concerns

    I don't think you understand how really fragile the UK is on the food front and the rest of the world for that matter.

    There are not enough land to produce food horizontally, anymore, there is only going vertical now, the UK has no resources to compete against the likes of China, India and US, so it should not be making enemies or creating situations where it could cause a disruption in their supply lines, food, metals, oil and other raw materials comes from the very same countries you are calling shite.

    They can make the UK and the US lifes miserable if they so chose to do so, even more since they are successfully making their own economic zone away from the US and Europe, where every time they go to talk or ask for help they are pounded with demands.

    Things are changing.

     

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  85.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 9:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You see no Latin American country would allow the US to acquire that much land anywhere there, but they do allow China to do it and to some extend even the UK, antagonizing Latin America could end that goodwill and so it would end the UK chances of finding land to produce food.

    Which means the UK could have to pay more for food in the not so distant future.

    That all because the US wants Assange by any means necessary, the UK should start to think about what it is best for them, following the US everywhere or start thinking about their own priorities, because the US is not making many friends around the world and it is losing economic leverage so the old way of forcing others to comply may not work for much longer and without cheap raw materials there are no industrialized country.

     

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  86.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 9:39pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Well according to the law and treaties Assange should be allowed to go, diplomacy supersedes local laws, no matter what you think about it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 19th, 2012 @ 9:46pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It does not matter according to international law and treaties Assange should be allowed to leave since he was granted asylum anything else is just hyperbole from a legal perspective.

    Are you saying that the UK can pick and chose what treaties and when they should fallow them?

     

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  88.  
    icon
    jessicasmith (profile), Aug 20th, 2012 @ 2:27am

    Great post! I live it. :)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2012 @ 2:51am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    What the UK was proposing wasn't an act of war, what Ecuador is doing is effectively an act of war. They are allowing someone to escape Swedish justice by hiding behind the UK justice system, and then using that to bootstrap into political asylum because of what the US might do.

    They are willing to help someone get around the laws of two countries to avoid what MIGHT happen from the third country.

    Assange's window statement earlier today is pretty much the full monty here. He has finally revealed himself as a coward and a scumbag at the same time, willing to climb into bed with a country that has horrible human rights record just to save his own skin.

    Assange is a chicken and is very loose with the truth.

     

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  90.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2012 @ 3:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The UK just proposed to throw out all diplomacy through the window.

    Should Russia invade the embassies of the UK to get to asylum seekers too?

    Alexander Litvinenko
    Boris Berezovsky
    Benny Wenda
    Akhmed Zakayev

    Other countries may be eager to ignore diplomatic law and go straight to business.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2012 @ 4:07am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wang Lijun should have been removed by force by Chinese forces then?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2012 @ 6:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    " They are allowing someone to escape Swedish justice by hiding behind the UK justice system "

    You still haven't answered my question.
    What swedish law did he break ?

    You keep saying things like 'escape justice' but you won't answer a very simple question. As noted, the opportunity to question him was offered, and declined, indicating that all the swedes really want is to get him into their country which has nothing to do with 'justice'. What crime did he supposedly commit in sweden, and what crime did he commit in the UK. Difficulty .. Jumping bail doesn't count since in order to have to make bail he had to be arrested and CHARGED with something, so 'Bail Jumping' is simply a circular argument.

    Exactly what were his 'crimes' ?? Seems like you are the one who is 'loose with the truth".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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