Pakistani Lawyer Apparently Seeks Death Penalty For Facebook Founders Because Of User Contest

from the overreact-much dept

You may recall that last month, a Pakistani court ordered that the entire site of Facebook be blocked from the country because a German woman using the site had created an "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" page, in response to the recent "threats" against South Park's writers, concerning a recent episode of that show. We thought that was a bit extreme, though we got a surprising number of comments from people in Pakistan who strongly agreed with the ruling, and were rather quick with an insult for anyone who disagreed.

If you thought that was an overreaction, well, then you'll love the latest. Apparently a lawyer is petitioning the court for charges to be brought against three of Facebook's founders, Mark Zuckerberg, Dustin Moskovitz and Chris Hughes. Neither Dustin nor Chris have worked at the company in quite some time. Apparently, the charges could lead to a death penalty request. According to the law:
"Use of derogatory remark etc, in respect of the Holy Prophet, whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation, or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable for fine."
I do like how after you are dead, you are then also liable for a fine. Pakistani law enforcement is apparently investigating the "crime," but no charges have yet been filed. However, the lawyer is confident that Zuckerberg and his two former partners will soon be arrested and shipped to Pakistan. I would have to imagine that's not actually going to happen any time soon.


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  1.  
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    Anonymous Poster, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 4:49pm

    In before Pakistani posters defend this reaction and insult those who disagree with it.

     

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    Tom Landry (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 4:51pm

    and there are still still idiots in THIS country who can't understand why mixing religion and government is a bad idea.....

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 4:58pm

    Politics and religion should never be mixed. Creates bad laws and terrible habits. I think there is a great conflict of interest in mixing the two.

    I also don't get why certain people are so uptight about religion as well. If I'm not mistaken, any heretic was burned by the inquisition. Thankfully, times have evolved, but, unfortunately, not everywhere.

     

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    GeneralEmergency (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 5:02pm

    Mike, you're sweet, but getting old...

    ....because a German woman using the site had created an "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" page....

    Ahhh, Mike, Mike, Mike. Must be thinking about the weekend, huh?

    She was a Seattle based cartoonist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day

    As for my daily blasphemy...
    "Mohammed kisses dog feet!"

     

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    GeneralEmergency, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 5:12pm

    After a re-read... I retract my chiding...

    The Wiki isn't at all clear WHO created the FaceBook page, but it does NOT appear to be the Cartoonist who started the "Draw Mohammed" movement in the first place.

    So Mike must be right.

     

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  6.  
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    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 5:29pm

    Re:

    Pakistan was a British colony, so this makes weird sense.

    (Also, Mike, why the scare quotes on threats?)

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 5:45pm

    So Mike must be right.

    Just because he isn't proved wrong, doesn't necessarily mean Mike is right.

    kinda like the whole argument for or against the existence of God (or Gods depending on which culture raised you.)

     

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  8.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 5:47pm

    Re: Mike, you're sweet, but getting old...

    ....because a German woman using the site had created an "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" page....

    Ahhh, Mike, Mike, Mike. Must be thinking about the weekend, huh?


    No. Just reading what the article says the lawsuit says:

    "the Deputy Attorney General has indeed lodged an FIR against Zuckerberg, fellow co-founders Dustin Moskovitz and Chris Hughes, and "Andy", the German woman who initiated the Draw Muhammad contest under a pseudonym."

    It's entirely possible that they are wrong, but I was quoting them accurately.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Poster, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 5:48pm

    Re: So Mike must be right.

    Are you saying Mike Masnick might be God?

     

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  10.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 5:49pm

    Re:

    "Creates bad laws and terrible habits."

    All I can say is I pictured Sarah Palin dressed as a nun after reading that line ... big Ole SHIVER

    definition : Shiver - shudder: tremble convulsively, as from fear OR excitement

    Take you pick on the "OR" part

     

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  11.  
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    Karl (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:07pm

    Re: Mike, you're sweet, but getting old...

    The cartoonist who created the original cartoon was Molly Norris (from Seattle). The person who created the Facebook page was Jon Wellington (from

    I have no idea where Germany enters into it. Did someone do a Muslim-themed "Downfall" video or something? 'Cause if not, they should.

    Also, no article about this story is complete without mentioning Millatfacebook.

     

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    Karl (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:08pm

    ...err, I don't know where Wellington is from, sorry.

     

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    bomomad jones, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:08pm

    bummer....

    I guess that means my idea of "Mohammed Suck My Dick Day" would be met with a bad reception also. And I thought I had a winner there...

     

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    porkinyourface, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:13pm

    Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    So what is wrong with drawing a picture of him?

     

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    Karl (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:14pm

    Re: Re: Mike, you're sweet, but getting old...

    Ah. That article was itself quoting a story on Pro Pakistani.

    The Pro Pakistani website does not seem to be terribly accurate in general (but mostly because of translator errors).

     

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    R.H. (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:16pm

    Guess who's not going to Pakistan!

    I hope that the American government is sensible enough to not even CONSIDER actually extraditing the American citizens included here even if charges are actually filed.

    Here's the way that I see the issues with the Islamic religion right now. The Islamic religion is about 600 years younger than Christianity. If you think about what Christians were doing to 'non-believers' about 600 years ago you may see a few similarities. I can't advocate violence in the name of any religion but try to see things in a broader prospective.

    By the way, I am an agnostic who was raised as a Baptist Christian.

     

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  17.  
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    harbingerofdoom (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:23pm

    Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    its disrespectful per their religion.

    now, if thats where it stopped it'd be no real issue... but since you have extremist religion combined with hatred of western civilization with a healthy mix of politics added in for good measure... you wind up with this kind of stupidity.

    my religious upbringing taught me one valuable thing.... all things in moderation... especially religion.

     

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  18.  
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    harbingerofdoom (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:31pm

    Re: Guess who's not going to Pakistan!

    it will be pretty much ignored by the US government i would imagine.

    you never know how volatile something like this could be and such an action could turn into massive civil disobedience/violence pretty quick.

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 6:45pm

    Pakistan's enforcing ACTA already?

     

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    Avatar28 (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 7:11pm

    Re: Re: Guess who's not going to Pakistan!

    Yeah, I don't think there's much chance of the US Government having him arrested and extradited to Pakistan. Especially given section 230 arguments, First Amendment, etc.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 7:32pm

    then block it

    if they want to block facebook from the whole country, let them. it's their responsibility though, not ours.

     

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  22.  
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    porkinyourface, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 7:51pm

    Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    especially important is pig cock in moderation, I think someone should tell Mohammed before it is too late!

     

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  23.  
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    Robin16 (profile), Jun 18th, 2010 @ 9:03pm

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/16222/missing-facebook/

    An advertisement on the webpage read, “Millat Facebook helps you connect and share with more than 1.57 billion Muslims and sweet people from other religions.” The Public interest litigation forum’s Judicial Activism Panel (JAP) has developed the website and launched it as a platform for users who were unhappy about not being able to use Facebook since the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) banned it under court orders. In a ceremony held at the LHCBA the chairman of JAP, Advocate Muhammad Azhar Siddique displayed the webpage (www.millatfacebook.com) for the first time.

    He urged internet users to sign up with the new website and connect with people who wanted harmony and were tolerant of religious sensibilities. The move is meant to convey to disgruntled users of the blocked site that the bar is not against the use of modern technology, but only insists on respect for a user’s religious beliefs. Azhar expressed his disappointment that no political party had stepped forward in condemning the sacrilegious contest. He requested government officials to take up the issue at the International Court of Justice and stop similar future initiatives.

    He stated that the JAP had every intention to take up the matter with the United Nations very soon.

    http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=36639

    Lahore—The Lahore High Court (LHC) Tuesday adjourned the hearing of the petitions against Facebook till July 9.

    The Deputy Attorney General Naveed Inayet Malik submitted that a case had been registered against owners of the facebook on charges of blasphemy at Police Station Civil Lines, Lahore and it had been sealed.

    The court was also informed that the federal government had written a letter to its permanent representative in the United Nation (UN) asking to present resolutions in the UN regarding the matter.

    Director Telecommunication (DT), Communication Ministry, Ali Muhammad submitted that a policy had been prepared to control blasphemous material on the internet.

    However, the petitioner-counsel Muhammad Azhar Siddique informed the court that blasphemous content was still present on Facebook.

    The court then directed the communication ministry to take notice of the situation and control the availability of such content.

    Ali Muhammad submitted that a complaint cell would be set up in this regard who would take action on any complaint within 24 hours.—APP
    **************************
    Be sure to link to millatfacebook.com

    OK so that one worked for a while and apparently now doesn't work, but this one does http://www.hicircle.com/

    This seems to be the website of the founder of HiCircle

     

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  24.  
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    adorno, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 9:13pm

    Can we get them to add Michael Arrington to the list?

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 9:28pm

    Re: Re: So Mike must be right.

    I'm just assuming you are being facetious. If not then you must be a moron who cannot draw a parallel between two entirely separate ideas.

    Besides we all know Masnick isn't God, Clapton is.

     

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  26.  
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    Megore, Jun 18th, 2010 @ 11:06pm

    Re: Mike, you're sweet, but getting old...

    she never created a facebook page moron, thats one of the first things she says on her site.

     

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  27.  
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    Dave, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 2:54am

    What? !!

    Just one word - unbelievable!

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 3:18am

    RELIGON IS A TREATABLE MENTAL ILLNESS.

    There it is...

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 4:16am

    Religion is THE problem. It's mental illness to the max. Islam is just one of the more violent religions.

     

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  30.  
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    Wolfy, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 4:17am

    Religion is THE problem. It's mental illness to the max. Islam is just one of the more violent religions.

     

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  31.  
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    Hoeppner, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 5:27am

    Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    The last 30 or 40 years of Muhammad's life was as a warlord. And one of the tasks of maintaining his power whenever he conquered a new area was getting rid of anyone who opposed his views(leaders, scholars, and similar). A lose translation to his followers would be "do as you see fit" with implications of whatever the follower wanted, even if it was death.

    By definition the Religion of Islam has their people seeking Enlightenment through the following of Muhammad, who is the "ultimate" example of what a good Muslim is.

     

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  32.  
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    Richard Corsale, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 5:46am

    Re: Re:

    (Also, Mike, why the scare quotes on threats?)

    - I was wondering the same thing. I'm pretty sure those "threats" were just plain ol' death threats?

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 5:47am

    Lawyers are the same all over the world. Barely knowledgeable about the laws they "circumvent".

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 6:15am

    Re:

    GERRRR I hate to chime in here, really... Think about this, nearly all of the mechanisms that hold a people together, doom the beheld to a bond of willful ignorance. Nationalism, Religion, Political Allegiance (may consist of the former)

    The exception being ideas and abstract philosophies. Very few people are able to stand with others that do not share their belief let alone reject it outright. The elite know that they have great power in unity, and that totalitarian philosophy is for the poor and the stupid. The social poison of the dogmatic i.e."you're either with us, or against us", is how you condemn a people to self destruction through locking it's attributes into a state of unwillingness to change/adapt, hence parish. Think post 911 America. Who stood against the President? Who fought, I mean really fought the "leadership" on their assertions and planed invasion of a non combative nation? No, we're no better than they are, we just print history, so it looks more favorably upon us.

    Show me ONE American politician that denounces mythology or even one (in modern history) that was not religious or pretended to be.. there is no longer separation of church and state. If you want to be in politics you have to buddy up to Jesus... It's a well known fact.

     

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  35.  
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    Hoeppner, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 7:10am

    Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    A loose translation I should say.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 7:47am

    Re:

    i'm so sick of pakistani and those cultures intolerance to anything thats not their culture/religion/beliefs.

    ARG!!!! sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
    just sick of all of these other cultures/religions being so intolerable of other cultures.

    one thing i do love about the USA, freedom of speech and tolerance to other countries (i know, not everyone is but for the most part we try)

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 9:06am

    OFF WITH ALL YOUR HEADS

    my religion demands it
    my religion is:
    -racist
    -intolerant of other views
    -lives in a cave or hut
    -believes science = how many hand grenades i can stick in your pants
    -beats women and children for no reason other then to toughen my knuckles
    -has its own gitmo for torturing everyone only mine is bigger
    uses free speech only on Tuesdays or when its convenient.
    -we mandate cameras in homes and wiretap at will
    -if gitmo2 is over crowded we'll ship you to a spa in 3rd world country for water boarding
    -dont worry about copyrights cause we'll propose life in prison for copying a single letter of the alphabet ....that solves that haha
    -beheadings at noon are to save the monkeys cause rather then eat monkey brains we'll eat your brains

     

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  38.  
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    harbingerofdoom (profile), Jun 19th, 2010 @ 1:27pm

    Re:

    no, religion is not the problem.
    the inability to reason and operate within the expectations of modern society is the problem.

    religion is only a convenient boogyman to place the blame on.

     

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  39.  
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    The Groove Tiger (profile), Jun 19th, 2010 @ 2:17pm

    Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    "its disrespectful per their religion"

    You mean like how everybody in the world should stop eating pig, because it's disrespectful of their religion.

    The trick is, if you don't follow some religion... you don't have to do what that religion says.

     

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  40.  
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    The Groove Tiger (profile), Jun 19th, 2010 @ 2:19pm

    Re: Re:

    Or a convenient excuse to do whatever you like, such as operating in contradiction of the expectations of modern society.

     

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  41.  
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    Nirgitude Ultramarine, Jun 19th, 2010 @ 7:24pm

    You know what we say in my chapter...

    Burn the Heretic. Purge the unclean.

     

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  42.  
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    btr1701 (profile), Jun 19th, 2010 @ 9:52pm

    Yep...

    ...looks like the "religion of peace" is at it again.

     

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  43.  
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    Karl (profile), Jun 20th, 2010 @ 12:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    if you don't follow some religion... you don't have to do what that religion says.

    Not if you believe in your religion. The rules come directly from God (or Yahweh, or Allah). They are absolute and unchanging. If anyone (a person or a government) contradicts those laws, then they are criminals.

    ...At least, that's the logical conclusion. If you don't believe that, then you can't believe in a religion. Or else you can't believe in logic.

     

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  44.  
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    Thomas (profile), Jun 20th, 2010 @ 8:26am

    Monothestic religions..

    are totally intolerant and hateful of any other religion. Their entire mindset is that you have to belive them and do what they say, and if you do anything to offend them you should either lose your head or be burned at the stake.

    It's very hard to keep track of what you can or cannot do to keep the different releigious groups from wanting you dead. Worse yet, the different religious fracture into subgroups, which also hate each other. So right wing Christians hate left wing Christians, plus jews and Islamics. It would certainly make an interesting chart to show which group hates which group.

    Fortunately, most western countries have managed to separate religion from government, although I'm sure lots of Christians would love to bring back death penalty for pretty much everything they disagree with, like blasphemy, drug addiction (unless it's one of their sanctioned religious drugs),homosexuality, adultery, etc.

    If they had their way we wouldn't have to worry about excess population. Death penalty for adultery? How many people do you know who have done that? or blasphemy?

    Suppose they managed to get the 10 commandments into civil law - "thou shalt not covet they neighbor's goods" would totally wreck the economy since no one would be allowed to try to keep up with the Jonses.

    There are no monotheistic "religions of peace". They ALL want the unbelievers eliminated.

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 20th, 2010 @ 8:37am

    Re: Mike, you're sweet, but getting old...

    > "Mohammed kisses dog feet!"

    Of course you meant your neighbor Khali Mohammed, an avid dog lover, riiiiiight?

     

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  46.  
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    Richard (profile), Jun 20th, 2010 @ 1:25pm

    Re: Guess who's not going to Pakistan!

    The Islamic religion is about 600 years younger than Christianity. If you think about what Christians were doing to 'non-believers' about 600 years ago you may see a few similarities.

    Maybe - and you don't have to go back that far.

    But what you won't find is any justification in the New Testament for such behaviour.

    When you compare the two faiths there are also important differences.

    Christianity started as pacifist religion and remained so for nearly 300 years.

    It was then adopted by the Roman empire and, later, various other states. Most of these states had fairly cruel and aggressive practices before they became Christian. Arguably the effect of Christianity has been to moderate those practices.

     

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  47.  
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    Richard (profile), Jun 20th, 2010 @ 1:48pm

    Re: Monothestic religions..

    Death penalty for adultery?

    From John Ch 8

    " 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

    4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

    5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

    6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

    7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

    9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

    10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

    11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. "

    How many people do you know who have done that? or blasphemy?

    Well Jesus himself was executed for blasphemy....

    The real problem is not Christianity - rather it is people who profess Christianity - and then pay almost zero attention to what the Gospel actually says.

    You can tell the real Christians - they are the ones who obey this saying from Matthew Ch 5

    " 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; "

     

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  48.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 20th, 2010 @ 4:37pm

    We thought that was a bit extreme, though we got a surprising number of comments from people in Pakistan who strongly agreed with the ruling, and were rather quick with an insult for anyone who disagreed.


    It wasn't so black and white. Stroll through facebook and you'll find some Pakistanis talking about how stupid this whole thing is.

     

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  49.  
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    nasch (profile), Jun 20th, 2010 @ 5:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    If anyone (a person or a government) contradicts those laws, then they are criminals... If you don't believe that, then you can't believe in a religion. Or else you can't believe in logic.

    Actually I think that's a logic fail. It is possible for a religion's laws to apply only to the followers of the religion. I'm not saying that's true of Islam, just that it's possible.

     

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  50.  
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    ...., Jun 20th, 2010 @ 8:29pm

    Re:

    No, Islam is a religion of peace.

    Terrorists and morons like this are to Islam what the Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity.

    Don't condemn everyone for the acts of a few.

     

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  51.  
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    Dohn Joe, Jun 20th, 2010 @ 10:02pm

    Nuk'em?

    I once heard a guy blurt "Just Nuk'em and get it over with" referring to the whole middle-eastern region...this story is the closest anything's ever come to making me agree with him!

     

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  52.  
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    Richard (profile), Jun 21st, 2010 @ 2:22am

    Re:

    Religion is THE problem. It's mental illness to the max. Islam is just one of the more violent religions.

    Actually it's a problem we all have. Everyone has a religion - even those who claim to be atheists or agnostics.

    The most violent and destructive "religions" of the 20th century held atheism up as their totem (I refer here to Stalin and Pol Pot).

    No system of belief (or lack thereof) has clean hands if you look at the actions of its followers. We all need to learn some humility.

     

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  53.  
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    Richard (profile), Jun 21st, 2010 @ 3:12am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Or a convenient excuse to do whatever you like, such as operating in contradiction of the expectations of modern society.

    It has always been that from when the Egyptians persecuted the Jews in the time of Moses, through the Roman persecution of Christians to more recent times when Stalin persecuted Christians. The Egyptians, the Romans and Stalin all regarded their systems as the "expectations of modern society".

    Surely what matters is not whether a religion conflicts with society (such conflict is more or less inevitable) but rather whether it offers something better or worse than that society.

    If you want to know the value of a religion look first at its founder (read the source material) then look at the behaviour of those who follow the founder most faithfully.

     

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  54.  
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    Phillip Vector (profile), Jun 21st, 2010 @ 4:23am

    Re: Re:

    "Actually it's a problem we all have. Everyone has a religion - even those who claim to be atheists or agnostics."

    http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=religion

    Noun

    * S: (n) religion, faith, religious belief (a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny) "he lost his faith but not his morality"
    * S: (n) religion, faith, organized religion (an institution to express belief in a divine power) "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

    By the very definition, atheists do not have a religion.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    icon
    Phillip Vector (profile), Jun 21st, 2010 @ 4:24am

    Re:

    All in the name of the Emperor.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 6:56am

    Drawing of The Prophet Mohammad

    O-/--

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    Mohammed's Whore Mother, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 7:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    ISLAM FAIL... If your commandments say "thou shalt not kill" you violate your commandment enforcing your pig-suckling prophet's drunken ramblings.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Cowardly Anon, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 7:53am

    Re:

    I wasn't aware this site was viewable on facebook...

    Or maybe it's just the comments here?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    noesbueno (profile), Jun 21st, 2010 @ 7:54am

    Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    he does? i thought that stuff only happened in german porn.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    icon
    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Jun 21st, 2010 @ 8:37am

    Re: Re:

    "Actually it's a problem we all have. Everyone has a religion - even those who claim to be atheists or agnostics."

    Sorry, that is incorrect. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods. And agnostics are atheists who just haven't followed their own train of thought to its conclusion.

    I am an atheist. I am a rationalist. If there is something that I think is true that you believe otherwise, all I ask is independently verifiable evidence showing that I'm wrong. I will be perfectly happy to change my mind.

    "The most violent and destructive "religions" of the 20th century held atheism up as their totem (I refer here to Stalin and Pol Pot)."

    Again, incorrect. Neither Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or others did what they did in the *name* of atheism. They had their own belief systems that were based on irrational concepts and not facts. Mostly it was communism and its faith in the radiant future, but individual personalities and their paranoia certainly had their impact in the atrocities committed. But the atrocities were never done in the name of atheism, it was always another untenable belief named as the reason.

    Religion is not the entire problem, and there are some that are mostly harmless (Jainism, Taoism, even the genuine Wicca are full of irrational beliefs but are mostly harmless). Religion is just one of the larger groups in the wider issue of irrational behaviors and the problems they cause. Others include nationalism, ethnocentrism, sexism, and that hardly scrapes the surface of the issue.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    Bradley Stewart, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 11:05am

    If There Was An Annual Award

    Trophy for the most frivolous lawsuit filed in a particular year this lawyer should get it this year. It is however nice to know that we are teaching the Pakistanis something use full and how well that they are learning it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    known coward, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 12:10pm

    If Pakastani law has been violated . . .

    and Pakistan has an extradition treaty with the US. The US should extradite. Just casue something is legal here, does not make it legal everywhere. If the founders of Facebook potentially broke the law in Pakistan, They should face charges in Pakistan. If they knew their stuff would be in violation of a countries law, they have an obligation to ‘sanitize’ what they distribute to comply with the local law, or they need to ensure they are not available in the country where they violate laws. The determination of the Pakastani law violations is for Pakastani's to decide, not americans.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 1:20pm

    Re: If Pakastani law has been violated . . .

    in the use its illegal to drink before the age of 21 but in Canada people can do it at the age of 18. they are breaking a law in the US but they don't get extradited.
    people are only susceptible to the laws of their residence.

    because its Illegal to draw some pedo profit in Pakistan does not mean that that they should be extradited. now if they where in Pakistan committed the crime of drawing a stupid icon then left to another country who had that agreement with them then what you said would make sense, though even then it would never happen.
    but in no way shape or form should any person in any country be shipped to Pakistan for exercising one of the human rights to freedom of expression.

    even if they did go to Pakistan and draw Senor Derp then left, no developed country part of the UN would send one of their citizens to get tortured and killed, over a GOD DAMN FUCKING DRAWING

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    The guy who posted before and forgot to put his na, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 1:21pm

    Re: Re: If Pakastani law has been violated . . .

    In the USA** sorry

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    RT, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 4:18pm

    Re: If Pakastani law has been violated . . .

    /FacePalm

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    arch_incubus, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 5:52pm

    Re: Re: Monothestic religions..

    Just because there is something in your 'holy book' that you don't like (the laws advocating stoning), doesn't mean that it's ok to insert false documents or cite them later when they've been shown to be fraudulent.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/john_8.htm

    That's right- the fable about the Nazz saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." was added later by some sanctimonious person who didn't care for J's actual words. By the way, a quote of his that DOES come from the oldest texts is one that you might want to ponder a bit, Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Oops, the Earth is still here, so by Jesus' own words, every law of Leviticus (and Exodus 34) is still binding...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    arch_incubus, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 5:54pm

    Re: If Pakastani law has been violated . . .

    Woah bubba. Ever eaten bacon? Do you follow a faith other than Islam? Ever used the phrase "Oh my god!"? Then by your logic, you should immediately get a ticket to Pakistan to turn yourself in for violating their laws. What's that? You weren't in that country at the time? So what, the founders of Facebook are not the people who put up the Mohammed page. Should the manufacturers and distributors of paper, pens, computers, etc be held responsible for the things created with their products? If not, then why should the founders of FB be held liable (in a nation that they are not citizens of and have probably never been to) for what someone used their product for?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    icon
    Karl (profile), Jun 21st, 2010 @ 6:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    Ah, but the truly religious believe that laws such as "Thou shalt not kill" only have moral weight because they are God's will.

    So, allowing disobedience to God's will is just as moral as allowing murder.

    If you believe that morals (like not killing) are wrong whether or not God says so, then you are admitting that He is not the ultimate moral authority. And how religious can you be if you admit that?

    (I am not a believer, in case you hadn't guessed.)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    tagnostic, Jun 21st, 2010 @ 7:13pm

    Islam

    Everything I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9/11

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    known coward, Jun 22nd, 2010 @ 6:02am

    Re: Re: If Pakastani law has been violated . . .

    *I* do not broadcast my bacon eating into the interweb to incite Pakistani’s to take up porcine eating habits, in violation of their creed. Facebook broadcasts out to the interweb and surely they know their packets reach Pakistan, and may preach issues that are in violation of Pakistani law, like free speech. Pakistani’s do not have any, and by promoting such you are guilty of subversion. Separation of church and state, again they do not have that, in fact they are working hard at completely integrating canon law into the national legal code, and encouraging someone to eat pork by showing them video’s of happy bacon eaters would be illegal in pakistan.

    My argument is a little facetious, but the main point is just because something is legal in the US does not mean that by definition it is legal everywhere. And no matter how stupid their laws are, they have the right to have their laws respected, not condescended too and violated. And if Pakistani law says there is no safe harbor, if you allow ‘draw Allah in a wig day’, to be shown to innocent young Pakistani children (after all think of the children) which may warp their too young to understand minds, you are guilty and should be stoned to death. Oh well….



    "Woah bubba. Ever eaten bacon? Do you follow a faith other than Islam? Ever used the phrase "Oh my god!"? Then by your logic, you should immediately get a ticket to Pakistan to turn yourself in for violating their laws. What's that? You weren't in that country at the time? So what, the founders of Facebook are not the people who put up the Mohammed page. Should the manufacturers and distributors of paper, pens, computers, etc be held responsible for the things created with their products? If not, then why should the founders of FB be held liable (in a nation that they are not citizens of and have probably never been to) for what someone used their product for?"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Jun 23rd, 2010 @ 3:02pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    By the very definition, atheists do not have a religion.

    They are human beings - inevitably as part of their psychology they will have some religion.

    Read this piece, written by someone who was raised in an atheist state and knew organised atheism at first hand if you wish to understand this point better.

    http://www.alexandermen.com/Why_Be_a_Christian%3F

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Jun 23rd, 2010 @ 3:11pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You choose a narrow definition that suits your point - however this is not the only generally accepted definition.

    From Wikipedia


    Religion (from Latin religio, "reverence for the gods", "piety", possibly related to religare, "to bind"[1]) is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or more in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.[2]

    Some versions of communism were certainly atheistic religions by this definition.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Jun 23rd, 2010 @ 3:22pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Again, incorrect. Neither Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, or others did what they did in the *name* of atheism. They had their own belief systems that were based on irrational concepts and not facts. Mostly it was communism and its faith in the radiant future, but individual personalities and their paranoia certainly had their impact in the atrocities committed. But the atrocities were never done in the name of atheism, it was always another untenable belief named as the reason.

    Sorry - the term "atheism" is a catch all for a number of belief systems - (just like the term "theism"). The belief systems of Stalin and Pol Pot were certainly members of the atheist set - just as the beliefs of Osama Bin Laden belong to the "theist" set.

    I am an atheist. I am a rationalist.

    What you say here is that you believe in logic ahead of existence. Unfortunately logic does not predict existence - although it is helpful in connecting the various parts of it together to allow our lives to be more coherent.

    Theists believe that existence comes first - logic is itself a created thing - given to us as a gift to make our lives easier ( and occasionally to give us great joy - as any mathematician will tell you).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    DS, Jul 2nd, 2010 @ 8:05am

    Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    It's only disrespectful if you believe in the rules of their religion. I don't believe in their religion, so I don't need to follow their rules.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    identicon
    asdf, Sep 4th, 2010 @ 9:19am

    muhammad

    prophet piece of shit cunt pigfucker muhammad was a pedophilerapist, murderer and a liar and sucks goat cocks

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    irfan, Oct 22nd, 2010 @ 2:10am

    Below is some information from a reputable site which you may find exciting.

    I found this informative and want to share with such a knowledgeable people like you


    An Extract of the information from the link below (as of 18th October 2010 - there are slight daily fluctuations):
    If Millatfacebook.com was a country it would be bigger than Greenland and Cayman's Islands based on daily traffic
    1 in every 29,070 internet users visits MFB daily
    Per CONSERVATIVE estimate, app 60,000 Unique visitors Daily


    http://www.sharenator.com/w/millatfacebook.com

    You will find more information including the geographical breakdown from the link above.
    In addition, it might be worth mentioning here that MFB is ONLY social networking site in the world where more than 2/3 rd of the users spend OVER 2 Hours which is pretty unique.



    It is also worth mentioning here that MFB is constantly improving and innovating. Not only does MFB offer all the features that any other social network does but many additional and unique ones like:
    Free Live TV
    Bulletins
    Shout Box
    Public Chat Rooms
    Recipes Feature
    e.t.c


    This is in additional to all the usual features where all members have their walls, ability to search and/or invite their friends, emailing, creating groups, fan pages, blogs, polls, putting status, sharing videos, sharing pictures, staying connected, e.t.c

    We know the journey is long but one we are well onto and with our strict respect for User's privacy, MFB is placed well ahead of any social network.



    Kind Regards,

    Omer Zaheer Meer
    ACCA (UK), BSc (Hons) (UK), CAT (UK), Adv. Financial Diploma (UK),
    Certified Anti-Money Laundering Specialist (UK) & Certified CSM (LCCI & SMEDA - PAK)

    Professional Associations: PRIMA (USA), ACCA (UK), PRMIA (USA), UKSIP (UK), CFAI (USA), LCCI (PAK) & MPDD (PAK)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    sania, Oct 28th, 2010 @ 12:50am

    oin this Group "United against Facebook's ridiculing Prophet
    (P.B.U.H) Islam & now Holy Quran.

    [link='http://millatfacebook.com/ad/id_10/']Click here[/link]

    I hope you will do this , it takes not more then 2 minutes or
    5 minutes if you have very slow internet connection.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    amurtza, Nov 16th, 2010 @ 4:22am

    Eye opener Are you being profiled? Reality of Facebook everyone should know CIA Profile Database?
    Eye-opener Are you being profiled?
    Reality of Facebook everyone should know CIA Profile Database
    http://millatfacebook.com/bulletin/view/id_9876/
    Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpLNlSKugHw&feature=related
    So its a high time to join fully privacy protected www.Millatfacebook now

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    ron barton, May 10th, 2011 @ 4:29pm

    Prophet Mohammed

    This fake prophet is as stupid as Bin Laden. Muslims need to get real..Change their hateful ways. I use toilet paper with Mohammed's picture on it. Expensive but enjoy wiping on Islam.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    ron barton, May 10th, 2011 @ 4:30pm

    Prophet Mohammed

    This fake prophet is as stupid as Bin Laden. Muslims need to get real..Change their hateful ways. I use toilet paper with Mohammed's picture on it. Expensive but enjoy wiping on Islam.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), May 10th, 2011 @ 4:43pm

    Re: Prophet Mohammed

    Not bad, not bad. I predict you'll get some bites on that one.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    bloodystocking, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:52pm

    Re: Re: Mohammed sucks pig cock.

    Mohammed

    A man who went into a cave, found some shrooms, gobbled them up, had some frightening hallucinations,then came down (literally) and fucked a nine-year old girl.

    He's the kind of man whose mug would appear on milk cartons. Today, he be tossed in the slammer as a child molester and drug abuser.

    Too bad he didn't OD

    ------------------------

    After eating the schrooms, Mohammed passed out in a corner and said: "Pink elephants! They're crawling up my legs! Wait a minute, now I see bats sitting at a bar belting beer. Oh, Christ, here comes the Devil waving a little green book.

    Now I got a hard-on. Think I'll go bang that little honey I saw on the way up. Yum."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    icon
    bloodystocking (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:20pm

    Prophet Mohammed

    So, you use TP with Mohammed's picture on the sheets? Buddy, you're a piker: I use pages from a Koran.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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