Don't get me started on those characters. When we took Greneda away from the Cubans, they jumped directly onto the airport they wanted to seize. But the Cubans were ready for them. They took 50% casualties. And didn't seize their objective.
He was—in my personal and professional opinion—a dupe like Marinus van der Lubbe of the Reichstag Fire, set up to promote a political action that was pending before Congress at the time….the Omnibus Anti-Terrorism Bill. A early version of the infamous 'Patriot Act'.
The FBI, stationed in that building, was taking a 'holiday' the day of the bombing. They'd had an unusual night-time training exercise the day before.
As I said earlier….
I believe in 'coincidence'. I just don't trust it.
What experience have you got with dealing with such situations?
You know what it takes to activate the National Guard? THE GOVERNOR. And then the activated unit needs to get to the area of operation. Furthermore, not all National Guard units are prepared to deal with combating armored vehicles.
You'd send a ambulance unit to do such?
How much time have you spent in the military anyway?
I don't recall McVeigh being identified with any millitia group. Do tell all of US which one. And please provide a credible citation to support the claim.
Rather—please pardon my professionally inculcated 'conspiracy theory', being a retired Army officer, I tend to apply Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield (IPB) techniques—he seems to be the patsy in a 'Reichstag Fire' scenario. There are too many 'oddities' about the bombing than can be ignored.
I believe in 'coincidence'. I just don't trust it.
Sometimes you get a wild-man. In Colorado's Granby, south of Rocky Mountain National Park, some character armor-plated a good-sized bulldozer and started wrecking the town.
Granby is too small to have its own SWAT team. Nor had they needed on before that happened.
Fortunately the vehicle broke down while destroying the Gambles department store. The perp evacuated the building, took shelter in the basement and later shot himself to death.
Here's a link to the story….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer
The point is that if the perp hadn't damaged the vehicle, special weapons would have been necessary to stop him. Or maybe the police could have put together some molotov cocktails to 'toast' him and his metal beast. But they probably would have been too vexed to think of that. After all, they aren't trained to do combat with armored vehicles….like we paratroopers are….. ;-)
Hunting tanks is easy and fun. -- 82d Airborne Division Anti-Armor Defense Axiom
" Further, police aren't armed like they're in war zones. That's just baseless, borderline libellous, unscientific, alarmist lies and drivel." -- Citoyen
Are you completely clueless? Or are you something much, much worse?
The police have MRAPs and military-grade equipment. Or did you sleep through the Boston Marathon Bomber Manhunt AND Ferguson?
Cities and counties without good-sized cities need such teams.
A better approach—and one that is more far-reaching—would be to eliminate the legal doctrine of 'Qualified Immunity' which gives LEOs the authority to shoot anyone they claim caused them to 'fear for their life'. They don't have to prove they were threatened, they just need to CLAIM IT.
Another thing would be to restore the policy for the use of deadly force to 'Protection of Life'. The FBI dropped that in the early 90s and since then it has trickled down to local law enforcement.
Holding the LEOs to the same standard of the Law as everyone else would go far to eliminating the needless murder of innocent and often unarmed people.
You atheists are really quite amazing in your denial.
I know for a fact that God (1) exists and (2) cares for me. How so? Because He saved my sorry fourth-point-of-contact on several occasions. Including one night jump with a malfunctioning parachute. As I was about to crash and burn, while trying to straighten out the mass of nylon that refused to open, that still small voice screamed in my ear "PREPARE TO LAND!"
At which point I snapped into the landing posture. A second later I crashed into Mother Earth. But I didn't 'burn'. I got up and walked away. But my M16 was a sorry mess. Not one piece of plastic was larger than a square inch and the barrel was bent.
You haven't lived until you've almost died.
[Atheist, n., One praying to God that He doesn't exist.]
For all the world, it looks to me to be neither. Rather rank disregard for the concept that the only lawful justification for taking a human life is 'Protection of Life', which the FBI gave up on over 12 years ago.
Re: SWAT vs.
RE: [OT] Delta Farce
Don't get me started on those characters. When we took Greneda away from the Cubans, they jumped directly onto the airport they wanted to seize. But the Cubans were ready for them. They took 50% casualties. And didn't seize their objective.
It took regular forces to rescue them.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Never Happen
RE: Heh
It's not a good idea to put words in other peoples mouths. It makes you look 'bad'.
[For more information, please re-read my previous comment.]
Try re-reading my previous. Your question is addressed in there. Or did you miss the business about small communities such as Granby, Colorado?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It gets worse
RE: McVeigh
He was—in my personal and professional opinion—a dupe like Marinus van der Lubbe of the Reichstag Fire, set up to promote a political action that was pending before Congress at the time….the Omnibus Anti-Terrorism Bill. A early version of the infamous 'Patriot Act'.
The FBI, stationed in that building, was taking a 'holiday' the day of the bombing. They'd had an unusual night-time training exercise the day before.
As I said earlier….
I believe in 'coincidence'. I just don't trust it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Never Happen
RE: Wrong
What experience have you got with dealing with such situations?
You know what it takes to activate the National Guard? THE GOVERNOR. And then the activated unit needs to get to the area of operation. Furthermore, not all National Guard units are prepared to deal with combating armored vehicles.
You'd send a ambulance unit to do such?
How much time have you spent in the military anyway?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It gets worse
RE: McVeigh
I don't recall McVeigh being identified with any millitia group. Do tell all of US which one. And please provide a credible citation to support the claim.
Rather—please pardon my professionally inculcated 'conspiracy theory', being a retired Army officer, I tend to apply Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield (IPB) techniques—he seems to be the patsy in a 'Reichstag Fire' scenario. There are too many 'oddities' about the bombing than can be ignored.
I believe in 'coincidence'. I just don't trust it.
Re: Re: Never Happen
RE: Evidence It's True
Sometimes you get a wild-man. In Colorado's Granby, south of Rocky Mountain National Park, some character armor-plated a good-sized bulldozer and started wrecking the town.
Granby is too small to have its own SWAT team. Nor had they needed on before that happened.
Fortunately the vehicle broke down while destroying the Gambles department store. The perp evacuated the building, took shelter in the basement and later shot himself to death.
Here's a link to the story….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer
The point is that if the perp hadn't damaged the vehicle, special weapons would have been necessary to stop him. Or maybe the police could have put together some molotov cocktails to 'toast' him and his metal beast. But they probably would have been too vexed to think of that. After all, they aren't trained to do combat with armored vehicles….like we paratroopers are….. ;-)
Hunting tanks is easy and fun. -- 82d Airborne Division Anti-Armor Defense Axiom
Re: Citizenship
" Further, police aren't armed like they're in war zones. That's just baseless, borderline libellous, unscientific, alarmist lies and drivel." -- Citoyen
Are you completely clueless? Or are you something much, much worse?
The police have MRAPs and military-grade equipment. Or did you sleep through the Boston Marathon Bomber Manhunt AND Ferguson?
Re: SWAT teams are wimps
"….one idiot with a shotgun"?
How about SWAT raids to recover a lost iPhone or a stolen video game?
Re:
And with good reason.
Each one of them is a menace to society if they even get a twinge of 'fear' in them.
Once that happens, they feel they can gun down anyone they want to and are protect by the doctrine of 'Qualified Immunity'.
Look it up…..
Re: appropriate force
That's TEXAS Ranger…..
One riot. One Texas Ranger.
Never Happen
Cities and counties without good-sized cities need such teams.
A better approach—and one that is more far-reaching—would be to eliminate the legal doctrine of 'Qualified Immunity' which gives LEOs the authority to shoot anyone they claim caused them to 'fear for their life'. They don't have to prove they were threatened, they just need to CLAIM IT.
Another thing would be to restore the policy for the use of deadly force to 'Protection of Life'. The FBI dropped that in the early 90s and since then it has trickled down to local law enforcement.
Holding the LEOs to the same standard of the Law as everyone else would go far to eliminating the needless murder of innocent and often unarmed people.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Lawful Use of Deadly Force
RE: [OT] This Will Be My Last Reply….
….to this off-topic sub-thread.
You atheists are really quite amazing in your denial.
I know for a fact that God (1) exists and (2) cares for me. How so? Because He saved my sorry fourth-point-of-contact on several occasions. Including one night jump with a malfunctioning parachute. As I was about to crash and burn, while trying to straighten out the mass of nylon that refused to open, that still small voice screamed in my ear "PREPARE TO LAND!"
At which point I snapped into the landing posture. A second later I crashed into Mother Earth. But I didn't 'burn'. I got up and walked away. But my M16 was a sorry mess. Not one piece of plastic was larger than a square inch and the barrel was bent.
You haven't lived until you've almost died.
[Atheist, n., One praying to God that He doesn't exist.]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Lawful Use of Deadly Force
Sorry to hear you are so terribly wrong.
God is alive….and Airborne-Ranger qualified. -- Chaplain, US Army Airborne School Chapel, Benning School for Boys, a.k.a. The Infantry School
P.S. So am I….. ;-)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Lawful Use of Deadly Force
OOOPS!
Replied to wrong comment.
My error…… ;-)
The only Man who was perfect got nailed to a tree.
Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Lawful Use of Deadly Force
Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Lawful Use of Deadly Force
Check out the YouTube video I linked to here titled….
This Is What Happens When You Call the Cops
Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Lawful Use of Deadly Force
Check out the YouTube video I linked to here titled….
This Is What Happens When You Call the Cops
Re: Re: Re:
RE: Implications, Anyone?
All it takes is the LEO to say, "I feared for my life", which is their invocation of their license to kill.
Re: Re: Re: Training
RE: Which Is It? Laziness or Stupidity
For all the world, it looks to me to be neither. Rather rank disregard for the concept that the only lawful justification for taking a human life is 'Protection of Life', which the FBI gave up on over 12 years ago.
Re: Training
RE: When Did Peace Officers Become Judge Dredd?
It happened back in the early 90s, when the FBI set aside the doctrine of 'Protection of Life' with regards to the use of deadly force.
You can check it out in certain references. I found it in the following….
Deadly Force: What We Know — A Practicioner's Desk Reference on Police
Involved Shootings by Geller and Scott (©1992). See pages 274-5.