The larger point that I was making still stands. You have no point at all. And we both know it.
I didn't really care about your overall point. It's so obvious to anyone with more than a sixth grade education that servers rely upon tips for their livelihood. So what?
I took exception to you using incorrect facts to support that position. I corrected you because those facts were incorrect. Get over it.
Considering that what I was referencing every single time was asking you to show me that you have, in fact, "paid money out of your actual tips into taxes, took money out of your bank account to pay those taxes, or dug up a rusty can to pay those taxes" and you have yet to show me that you have, I guess the answer is actually ZERO.
As I explained above, I cannot prove that with my own personal experience, since at the time, I was being declared a dependent on my parents tax returns and my father's accountant prepared my tax returns. I don't have access to that information which was probably thrown out when my father died.
I did however, show that the IRS does require the server to cover any tax liability that withholding doesn't cover. One of the links even advises the server to give the employer extra money (presumably from their tips) throughout the year to avoid paying additional penalties at the end of the year on the tax that is owed.
All you came back with was your own personal certitude that "that never happens in real life" without so much as shred of evidence to back that up.
Stings, doesn't it? Dude.
Nope. Not even a little bit. I simply corrected you on a couple of incorrect facts you used to support your point. Instead of acknowledging you were wrong or even the fact that you might possibly be wrong, you got all butt-hurt, dug in your heels, doubled-down and started tossing insults around like a petulant child. How would that "sting" me?
I do not and will not conform to normal etiquette in human interaction.
Lol. Do you get pissed off at your buddies at the bar when they start talking about something other than what you are talking about? You must be loads of fun to hang out with, I'm sure.
It's not your blog or mine but I like to pretend I'm in charge around here, because I'm a special snowflake.
I'm not the one who bitches about about going off-topic or responding to obvious trolls. You on the other hand...
I'll wander off on tangents...
Yes. I wander off on tangents if I feel like it. So what? So does most normal human conversation.
...and spout a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with the matter at hand...
Yet, I provided quotes and links to support my position. What did you provide? Oh yeah, lots of don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up in the form of "I already know the answer is ZERO".
...that really have nothing to do with the central issue.
I thought I made this clear to you awhile ago. I do not and will not conform to what you think the rules of this comment section should be. It's not your blog. I'll wander off on tangents and respond to minor incorrect facts in comments as I please.
Also, here a couple of links to servers complaing about having to pay taxes on thier tips at tax refund time:
My company audits each server monthly to make sure we are claiming enough. and out of the 30 + servers in my company I'd say 90 % of us owe taxes at the end of the year....... some over 2000.00 because our hourly wages do not equal enough to pay the taxes on our sales. and to be blunt about it....... NOT ONE OF US recieves an actual paycheck we get a piece of paper that says THIS IS NOT A CHECK! https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070526074701AAYK9d8
I make 2.80/hr at Olive Garden & they claim a certain amount automatically & my paychecks are normally 0$ every week. This year I had $800 federal withholding & still ended up owing this year. Should I be claiming more or less tips so I don't owe at the end of the year? Sorry I just really dont understand how some co-workers are getting money back & i'm owing? https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140119170353AAbqhRY
That's just a couple I found with a quick Google search.
And you can't find another server that has, either, because it does not happen.
I'm sure it happens all the time - especially at high-end restaurants where the hourly wage won't even come close to covering the tax liability. You need to prove your claim that "it doesn't happen". I've showed you the IRS links that proves that the tax is still owed, whether it's withheld or not.
Look at lines 75-79 on a 1040 Return form. If you overpaid your tax liability through withholding you get a refund. If you didn't pay enough through withholding you send a check in with your return. It's the same for anyone who doesn't cover their tax liability with withholding.
It's fascinating to watch how you move the goalposts, backpedal, and pretty much repeat exactly what I said in the first place in your vain attempt to "win" some Internet debate.
I was simply disputing your assertions that "Servers never ever ever pay taxes out of their tip money. Never." and "The Fed just eats the difference." You are wrong on both of those points.
When you don't tip a server you are directly messing with their income.
So what? When my car mechanic fucks up my car, I don't pay him either. That's directly messing with his income too. I don't pay for poor service anywhere. If a server is so bad that I don't believe they deserve my "gratitude" I won't leave a tip. If they are especially egregious, I will leave a penny just so they know I didn't forget the tip and I gave them what I thought their service was worth to me.
The ONLY place where you put money into taxes (and you weren't even really doing it yourself) is from your paycheck.
That is simply not true. Here is a quote from the IRS on this. It's from one of the links I posted below:
Giving your employer money for taxes. Your regular pay may not be enough for your employer to withhold all the taxes you owe on your regular pay plus your reported tips. If this happens, you can give your employer money until the close of the calendar year to pay the rest of the taxes. [...] If withholding taxes remain uncollected at the end of the year, you may be subject to a penalty for underpayment of estimated taxes.
Tips are taxable income. Servers have to pay taxes on tips because it's taxable income. If not enough money was withheld from the server's paycheck to cover the taxes on both the hourly wage and the tips combined, the server will owe the IRS at the end of the year.
You are wrong. I worked a couple of years as a contract cable installer. It was a 10-99 position. I owed taxes at the end of the year on my income because nothing was withheld from my paychecks to cover the taxes.
Most years I get a tax refund when I file my 1040 return because they withheld more income taxes than I owe. That's what an income tax refund is - money you have overpaid through wihholding on your paychecks.
Yes. Although, she wouldn't really mail $5 everytime that happened. It would be calculated on her 1040 income tax return for the entire year. If she had underpaid for the year, she has to send in a check to the IRS for the difference and if she had overpaid, she gets an income tax refund.
Nothing, which is why your silly distinction is baffling to me.
Tips are considered income. Income taxes are paid on tips. It really doesn't matter if those taxes are paid from the actual tips, the payheck from the house, the server's bank account or from a rusty can of coins buried in the server's backyard. Income taxes are paid on the tips, that's what matters.
That's why it's called Income Withholding. Servers don't pay taxes into the system. The Fed just eats the difference." And nothing in your retort says anything to contradict it at all.
The Feds do not "eat the difference". Lots of employers do not withhold income taxes on wages. 10-99 employes or "contract workers" do not have income taxes withheld. It's the responsibility of the worker to pay the income tax on thier own. Income tax not being withheld doesn't, in any way, relieve someone of the responsibility of having to pay the tax.
Servers DO NOT pay into taxes with their tips period
Servers have to claim thier tips. It's considered taxable income by the IRS. You seem to be making some sort of silly distinction between whether the taxes are withheld from the actual tips or from the paycheck from the house. It makes no difference at all. The bottom line is the fact that the tips are considered taxable income and servers do pay income taxes on the money they receive in tips.