Re: FIrst, it's "a massive class action lawsuit", not just one rapper.
"it's dismissable because whoever this "
dude..go learn some music history...Chuck D is a pioneer of hip hop and created the very 1st socially conscious rap group in history. Run DMC and Beastie Boys list PE as influential. Public Enemy innovated scratching techniques and introduced new production /lyrical styles to music in general.
Re: Re: Re: Mike slips in a telling phrase: "ad providers".
could u please tell me how any of these examples cause harm to the creator? Or where these are not examples of fair use? be specific please.. Do you think any of these people belong in jail? I mean do you really think the house lighting thing was NOT cool? Cmon .. your examples are examples of what is GOOD about U tube...
I think a helpful way of looking at remixing and and the use of samples versus composition is to understand the difference of what they are. What we have in much electronically-based music are essentially composer-arrangers.
Historically, arrangers take composed music and 'remix' them. They may change the tempo, change parts, keys, moods, instrumental composition and even styles. Frank Zappa famously arranged Led Zepplin's 'Stairway to Heaven' for a big band. It took a lot of creativity even though Frank did not compose the song. Just about all the high school jazz charts and most of the college charts I read from back in the day were arranged by a person other than the composer. I contend that a remix/sample artist is no different from a jazz arranger. However, a sample artist may go further.
There are so many new tools for manipulating waves today compared to just ten years ago. It is these tools that help make a sample artist a composer as well as an arranger. Samples can be stretched, scratched, effected, flipped, internally rearranged, and tone adjusted just to name a few of the options available. There are wizards out there that can do just about anything to sound you can imagine, on the fly, and in a musically pleasing way that create new art with the elements of the old they draw from. Some controllerists can even improvise with other musicians on their instruments in a group setting adding new elements to live performances now.
Sampling is too convenient, easy, and most importantly, effective to ever stop. It will continue to grow as tech gets better and cheaper. The lines will be blurred more and more as new kinds of instruments using this tech are developed for those who play live. They will not replace regular instruments but join them on the stage. Traditional instruments will also continue to change and incorporate the new tech with the old. Already with my 6-string Ken Smith bass with a midi pick up connected to my Fantom, I can sound like an entire orchestra or really anything I chose through sampling, recording and prepping wave files to my keyboard. I would suggest this is a good trend mainly due to the further democratizing affect the tech has on the music industry. For composers with a good perspective the world is their oyster. However, considering the current climate, just don't forget to befriend a good lawyer ;D
I must also state that much of what we talk of can fall into subjective opinion..so there is that..however i must say that I see no logic for your support of this verdict, even in the light of the position you hold.
"I have to say though that trying to call it a "sound scape" rather than a song "..never said that..it is a song..with no melody..and i listened very closely to the song..the sample might have an extra delayed flurry of notes that starts at 4:10 and fades to the right at 4:20. After that its just arpeggios and string pad chords. I've very good ears and get paid well for them. Also..harmonic motion is not the same thing as a melody.
" is still made up of the same elements of a song, such as tempo and melody" the tempo was established by arpeggios at the beginning 2 min before the sample was introduced..
the sample starts @ 2:04 and ends @ 4:02...out of a total of 5:26..it is basically the sample used for the break down and rebuild..of the beat and chord sequence...which in this style of music provides the'pace and structure'..there is no melody in this song..just rhythm samples, chords, arpeggios based on those chords. Its all about a soundscape..not a melody. This is not Beatles music. The sample is not, as you seem to characterize, the linchpin in the song. I could be wrong, but it appears to me that you need to gain some fundamental education in modern music and musical structures in general.
wow Greevar..did you carefully read my post? Strawmen everywhere in your response. Lets take a look...
"What? This example took artistic thought to put together."
I never said it didn't. In fact I validated that I believe remixing IS art. Also..so is Audio Engineering...
"Do you honestly think somebody with no musical aptitude could do that? It's not just pushing buttons and the machine makes the music."
I never said any of what you are arguing against..
Music theory is a tool, not a requirement, to make good music. It's good to have in your toolbox, but not having it doesn't make you a bad or non-musician."
I agree..wholeheartedly..why do you argue? I never said anything at all disparaging about Madeon's skills, musicality, or talent. Another Strawman..
""Muscle memory", as you call it, is your brain adapting learned patterns into long term memory so that you don't have to use conscious thought to do recall it.
again I agree..however, the muscle memory needed to master a stringed instrument takes much more effort to accomplish versus what is being shown in the video. To argue otherwise is either being intellectually dishonest, or shows a huge lack of understanding of what it takes to play and instrument versus a controller.
" but it's not your place to judge the way others do music unworthy "
I never did..strawman..
"If you don't like what the new guys are doing"
another strawman..actually I consider myself one of those 'new guys'
"denouncing them and saying they're not "real" musicians"
again..I never said that
"You're just jealous"
No I am constantly inspired by new stuff...
nice ad hominem btw..
Greevar, why attack me like this? did you even read my post?
Ive been reading TD for almost 4years now..usually your posts are better, friend.
I do remixes and electronic music myself in addition to all the other stuff..
I was trying to give those who are not as well versed in music and sampling, etc the benefit of my perspective as an artist and producer who has learned analog instruments, uses controllers, programs beats, improvises and composes music of all styles...every day..for many years. I know what it takes to learn an instrument. I know what it takes to learn software and controllers; to manipulate sound waves, etc..
I am NOT disparaging any of these skills and talents..
My only point was that there IS a difference in the learning curves and amount of skill it takes. My personal experiences with my own study as well as that of the hundreds of fellow musicians I know doing both styles tell me this.
hmm.. y'know Jimi Hendrix couldn't read or write music and is considered by most fellow musicians(even ones with music theory skills)as a genius. Eric Clapton said he wanted to quit after seeing Jimi play live. Conclusion? The understanding of music theory, while it can be very helpful, is not required to be a historic, game-changing musical giant.
I've been a professional (touring, studio, composition) musician, audio engineer and producer since 1989. I have a studio full of gear with just about every analog and electronic instrument you can think of, including many different controllers and grooveboxes. I grew up playing horns, guitar, bass, drums and piano. I love Kutiman (who by the way, is a real musician with skills on guitar and keys)and absolutely believe remixing is an art.
However..too many here are getting it twisted. There is absolutely no comparison with rhythmically pressing buttons vs. learning the nuance, technique, and gain the muscle memory to play a guitar well. It takes much more skill, time and devotion to develop your diaphragm and build an embouchure to play a horn.
What Madeon is doing is cool, takes time, talent and a good ear. It takes work that is very similar to what many audio engineers do to prep the audio clips and gear. However, it is not even on the same plane as a John Coletrane improvisation or a Yo Yo Ma solo. I mention this not to invalidate remixing as an art, but only to point out that some art takes MUCH more skill and dedication.
I've played in orchestras and Jazz bands, toured in improvisational fusion bands, and promoted and performed electronically-based gigs using originally programmed beats and playing my MC 505 rhythmically very similar to the video above.
Of them all, gaining the required understanding of music theory and mastery of my instruments to improvise (compose on the spot) solos and grooves definitely took the most time,dedication and effort. To figure out cool beatboxes and computer programs like Propellerhead's Reason and Ableton's Live and trigger the samples with a controller doesn't require years of study and muscle memory.
That being said, here is an artist, like myself, who combines the best of both worlds..enjoy ;D
Watch just these videos with an open and scientific mind and you will see undeniable evidence that the the official 911 story (which has been changed repeatedly to cover new physical and scientific evidence) is a lie...you will discover further evidence, including physical evidence, that suggests that, indeed, the 3 towers were brought down by explosives. The Popular Mechanics report, NIST, and the 911 Commission have all been thoroughly debunked.
correction: Greed is the unhealthy desire for too much...or as oxford puts it
"excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves"
I disagree with your assertion that this was the motivator
behind any of the advancements you mention or to your implied position that greed is necessary for progress.
Other factors such as prestige, curiosity, or an insatiable desire to solve problems or discover come to mind as motivators. As for Moore's Law, you really think greed is the prime cause of the desire to put more transistors on a chip? Not a desire to do or compute more?
Please note that simply a desire for financial gain is NOT greed.
Very well put, sir. It certainly explains why the criminals who have hijacked my Govt want nothing to do with a populace of critical thinkers with a moral compass separate from some approved organized superstition.
What institutions in our society tell us what to think, feel, do, and hope for?
What ones TEACH us how to think, rationalize, achieve, handle emotions, and dream?
I think that art is important for reasons different than someone looking to get paid.
Hey, fellow musicians, you are inspired by me, them, and everyone around you. The buildings, smells, ambient noises, air pressure, etc. You, the artist, are born from and of our shared experience and culture. True art will be observed and studied as representative of the times they were born of...even if the art is timeless. To lock that up and say it cannot be shared freely is trying to, for the 1st time in history, allow leaches who add nothing suck at our very culture. This is where the real crime is.
Criminals have always been drawn to creative endeavors almost like dark locusts of negative energy, bewildered by the very act of creation, not understanding something so beautiful, they seek to exploit, cheapen and control it to their own benefit. Beware...you will know them by what they do...not what they say.
"An interesting glossing over of the last 100+ years of american history."
Nothing glossy about it at all, just a few pointers to the proverbial water...i cant make you drink.
"The complexities of individual motivations require institutions that are flexible, growing, shrinking, adapting as necessary."
It is you who is glossing over my point, which was never a contention that institutions, in and of themselves, are intrinsically evil. Nice strawman. Try reading again very carefully. I know my history well and American political history very well. It is so replete with examples that support my previous statements that there is really no need to point you to the examples. Google for yourself...read a few well researched books, etc..
"is exactly what is necessary to reign in a seemingly lost, divided, frustrated, scared group of individuals who are struggling to come to grips with macro-level changes in the economic, political, social, and spiritual spheres."
Dude..gimme a break..the human race has been fighting culture shocks all throughout history..
Some biggies describing your conditions include..
the fall of Rome
and for the 20th century especially..World War 1
and it's continuation in World War 2
again, however this comment ignored the point i made entirely. Indeed, I would counter your strawman point by asking if you feel it necessary for institutions to become oppressive for the problems you mentioned to be handled properly, since you did mention the current corruption of our institutions, which you describe so eloquently as "growth", as "exactly what is necessary."
let us not forget that this American experiment in freedom is a blip in terms of overall human history. Civil Rights even more so. For most of recorded History, most of the Human race has lived in oppression. So our current concept of liberty is a fragile and precious thing indeed to be vigilantly cared for and nurtured. We, for the most part, are failing in this sacred task due to ignorance, spectacle, and indoctrination. A very few people have hijacked my country, and Im pissed about it, as should everyone be. I dont want my children growing up in a world-wide version of China thank you.
while i agree w some of your sentiments..
"A participatory system could be a tremendous asset if used properly"
"Health care for example is something Americans want to a large degree but Congress being in the pocket of big business, they wont pass a good bill without being made to."
others statements you make might need a closer look..
"Obama seems to have changed that to some degree"
"Obama seems to want to make this country better"
Your insight to the personal motivations of a politician are amazing and could get you well paid if you actually had such a power...
Seriously though, Obama is "the good cop"...Bush/Cheney was "the bad cop"...both are still "cops" out to trip you up and get you into a jail cell..both answer to the same criminal/organized crime elements that have hijacked our country for over 100 years and who doesn't have the peoples best interests anywhere near to their motivations.