How The Legacy Entertainment Industry Poisoned The Well For The Innovation It Desperately Needs

from the these-things-come-back-to-bite-you dept

Soon after the death of SOPA, we wrote about a great post from entrepreneur Tyler Crowley (which, sadly, seems to have disappeared from the internet) discussing his reactions to some entertainment industry execs trying to "make peace" with entrepreneurs. He does a great job discussing different "islands of opportunity" for entrepreneurs, noting that certain "islands" are very welcoming for enterpreneurs and developers:
For tech folks, from the 35,000' view, there are islands of opportunity. There's Apple Island, Facebook Island, Microsoft Island, among many others and yes there's Music Biz Island. Now, we as tech folks have many friends who have sailed to Apple Island and we know that it's $99/year to doc your boat and if you build anything Apple Island will tax you at 30%. Many of our friends are partying their asses off on Apple Island while making millions (and in some recent cases billions) and that sure sounds like a nice place to build a business.
But, of course, when it comes to "music biz island" the "natives" are not particularly welcoming. Even if you think "Apple island's" rates are too high, at least they don't try to destroy your business:
Now, we also know of Music Biz Island which is where the natives start firing cannons as you approach, and if not stuck at sea, one must negotiate with the chiefs for 9 months before given permission to dock. Those who do go ashore are slowly eaten alive by the native cannibals. As a result, all the tugboats and lighthouses (investors, advisors) warn to stay far away from Music Biz Island, as nobody has ever gotten off alive. If that wasn't bad enough, while Apple and Facebook Island are built with sea walls to protect from the rising oceans, Music Biz Island is already 5 ft under and the educated locals are fleeing for Topspin Island.
I'm reminded of this as Derek Khanna calls our attention to a footnote in Paul Graham's key post that discusses "What Happens At Y Combinator." If you don't know, Y Combinator is the leading startup accelerator out there. It's the place that many entrepreneurs strive to go to build up their startups and turn them into real companies. It has helped produce and/or jumpstart Reddit, Dropbox, AirBnb, Humble Bundle and more. Basically, if you want a pulse on what the best entrepreneurs are thinking about/working on, looking to Y Combinator is a good place to start.

Yet, in Graham's discussion of what happens at Y Combinator he explicitly tells startups to never bother doing a startup that in any way will need to involve record labels:
Except for the record labels, which are effectively a rogue state with nuclear weapons. There is nothing we or anyone else can do to protect you from them, except warn you not to start startups that touch label music.
I don't know how long that's been in there, but it's absolutely true. This is the exact time when the industry needs more innovation and entrepreneurial spirit, yet anyone who's been watching the space knows that actually trying to help legacy industry players is a ridiculous minefield. Earlier this year, I wrote about Michael Carrier's great research into the chilling effects that the recording industry's efforts have had on music entrepreneurs, leading to a massive chill in innovation in the space.

And, of course, even when a company can actually get through that gantlet, and actually provide a decent service, they get attacked by artists for not solving all their problems. It's a space where basically every one of the legacy players has made one thing clear to the innovators and entrepreneurs they need the most: stay out.


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  1.  
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    fogbugzd (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 7:53am

    Unfortunately the legacy industries are trying to expand the Bermuda Triangle of the Internet to suck in as many neighboring islands as possible.

     

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    Ninja (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 8:59am

    Let them sink. After they do we can salvage what's useful and carry on. The world will be a better place when they are gone.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:20am

    Re:

    Quick, someone mirrors it before the MPAA takes it down!

     

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  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:20am

    Bullshit

    It's all Google's fault! Their ad-supported piracy antics have killed any efforts of the Labels to build a viable, artist-supporting business model.

    The Labels have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into new and innovative technologies, with massive catalogs of recorded music available for consumers to consume. These catalogs enrich life and culture. When consumers pay for access, at a reasonable Label-determined price, considering all the expenses to create THE culture the world needs, artists thrive!

    Not only that, the Labels remove all the non-artistic content that clutters the waters. This cluttering prevents our artists, whom we heavily invest in and supporting their creativity, from earning a decent living and prevents them from being able to create. We support our artists in every way possible, barely making any money ourselves and 99% of our investments do not return anything close to what we invested. That 1% so many are so critical of exist because it IS culture and it supports the many artist who would otherwise not be able to create anything at all.

    All of our efforts are hindered by Google and piracy sites. All of our savings are drying up, so we can't even afford to pay artists. They are broke and starving all because our innovation and our business models are being decimated by an uneducated populous who's only desire is everything for free.

    Our services were user friendly, affordable and directed consumers to the best possible art available. Now, thanks to greedy pirates and tech companies, you won't find our amazing services. Google has removed our services that support our artists from its search indexes and replaced it with piracy sites supported by ads, generating billions each year that make techies rich, while artists die!

    The only poisoning is from the tech industry! The islands to avoid are those created by the tech industry! Their pirates masquerade as honest, caring individuals but in truth, and all our data and independent data supports it, they are the complete opposite. Their goal is total control over that which they do not create, own, or even care about.

    The "legacy" entertainment industry is the real innovators! Without us, society would be nothing more than robots running free, buggy, unstable software, avoid of emotion and culture.

    Thank you for the death knoll, now please close my coffin so I can rest in peace!

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:31am

    Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    This is just a wacky analogy-driven fantasy in which grifters attempt to portray themselves as beneficial to the income stream, not diverting it into own pockets. But in fact, "music entrepreneurs" are the ones attempting to "tax" the existing, productive, music industry. -- Which at other times, you agree is doing fine! And despite rampant piracy! So what the hell is wrong with the "dinosaur" notions besides that they're not letting some NEW grifters get in on the gravy train? -- Mike's tacit assertion is that the industry is in collapse and/or doomed, but it ain't true, so falsifies much of his notions.

    And by the way, NO you're not entitled to advise the industry as to "its best interest". This item has grifters looking at THEIR short-term interests, while the industry as such will (and even must) take concern for its own long-term interests. -- And no, consumers don't have any say in those decisions, except to NOT buy the products. -- When comes to producers versus consumers, I must side with producers (up to some point).

    And what keeps happening to Mike's notions of artists selling direct, not needing any middlemen or promoters at all?

    So here again, ALL that you're doing is trying to help some new middlemen replace the old, using products that the old ones now HAVE. This is re-distribution, NOT new production.

    Where arrogance meets ignorance to conspire what they'll do with someone else's million selling tune.

    05:31:30[g-962-3]

     

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    Alan, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:38am

    Re: Bullshit

    The Labels have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into suing new and innovative technologies,

    ftfy

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:45am

    Re: Bullshit

    This is sarcasm, right? It must be.

     

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    RyanNerd (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:50am

    Despite the 'poisioning of the well' Innovation has marched on

    I don't know if I agree with you in full on this one. Here are some examples where the **AA's have tried to block innovation and so far failed:
    VCR
    MP3 Players
    YouTube
    Pandora
    Ruku
    Aereo

    That doesn't mean that the MafiAA's haven't attempted to block innovation or posioned the well from time to time, but I think we will see these self appointed guardians die, hopefully within the next ten years or less.

     

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    squall_seawave (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:50am

    Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    eh i think you are wrong,
    the fact that the old dinosaurs dont want to die to be replaced is something that is wrong if not we still would be in the dark ages (althought i feel we are heading to another one) when the church controlled all media but eventually it was replaced by the printing houses

    a customer has to defend their rights when all industries collude to sell a subpar or even limited product at inflated prices that's why they want to stamp the internet to limit the alternatives it is buy our products as we want or go without it

    and artists can sell directly but it is a minefield why because oh surprise copyright you can't create anything really original in this climate without a good lawyer so it is stiffling innovation

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:52am

    Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Clarifying: "And no, consumers don't have any say in those decisions, except to NOT buy the products" -- AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO CONSUME THE PRODUCTS WITHOUT PAYING. You kids always overlook and/or attempt to justify your consuming without paying, but just because you have gadgets and can get away with it doesn't raise it above childish thefts of someone else's property like eating grapes in a supermarket. (Sigh. You kids will continue to assert that you're not taking anything by copying music files, and the artist still has all the data so isn't harmed, but no, yet again: you are simply cheating on the reasonable deal that society provides for artists. Copyright exists to try and prevent YOUR immoral takings. )

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:57am

    Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    "05:31:30[g-962-3]"

    Just what is with the weird numbers at the end of most of your posts? Is it some sort of weird authentication thing, that proves it's you? If it is, here's mine
    17:52:34[j-451-4]
    The time is right, but the brackets I just made up. Given the fact that they're just plain text, they mean absolutely nothing at all. There's no verification of their authenticity.
    I would suggest just creating an account, but you have said before that Mike blocks your username. Well tough shit, I just made an OOTB account. I'll post proof in a second.

     

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    out_of_the_blue (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:59am

    Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    This is proof the above is correct. This is Rikuo, using a just created OOTB account. I'll see about claiming the above comment under Rikuo, since for some reason I was signed out while writing it.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:59am

    Re: Re: Bullshit

    @ John Fenderson

    Re: Bullshit
    This is sarcasm, right? It must be.


    The phrasing seems somewhat equivocal, but given this excellent line: "Their [the tech industry] goal is total control over that which they do not create, own, or even care about."

    I concluded it's written by one of artistic excess (even I wouldn't cast Google QUITE so central to the piratage problem), but IS serious.

     

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    Rikuo (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:04am

    Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Damn. No luck, I can't claim it.

     

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    squall_seawave (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:04am

    Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    actually i dont mean consume the product withouth paying i meant variations of the product for example there is microsoft office i like it has a good text procesor but it is incompatible with my tablet so what can i do well i look for something similar and download offise fr (invented product) that runs exactly the same as microsoft office run in all systems and it is free but oh surprise microsoft dont like it and go to stampt it

    in a real example: giana sisters was born because mario bros was a propiety of nintendo and there wasn't option to multiplats in that age so those programmers made a substitute for commodore 64 it was similar but not the same
    but nintendo didn't like it and it stamped it out

     

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  16.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:05am

    Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Insert very obvious logical retorts here, that have already been explained about a thousand times by now.

     

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    Rikuo (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:07am

    Re: Re: Re: Bullshit

    That's Disney you're thinking of. Did they create the vast amount of stories that were turned into Disney movies? Nope. Do they seek a never-ending control of said movies anyway? Yes.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:11am

    Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    @ "This is Rikuo, using a just created OOTB account."


    In the past, someone did that as well. Hadn't occurred to me that it lapsed (or was removed by you know who), and I hadn't checked whether, available because I don't in any case want an account: that just facilitates ad hom from the fanboy-trolls.

    Now, the numbers are, as I explained, to prevent anyone from falsely using my screen name. I found it necessary because so many here tried to run me off this fine site by using that and other methods*. If duplicated or imitated, that string of characters (which are by simple algorithm easily verified in one's head) change merely copying my screen name into definite attempt to speak as me, and so from protected free speech into deliberate fraud.

    So now you're intent on stealing even my screen name, sonny? Get your own, you level zero troll.

    GET ON TOPIC. Quit trolling me. You said that you'd stop. If you don't like what I post, just ignore it.

    [* Some here have even threatened me as a mad dog:

    Gee, blue is just a glutton for punishment isn't he? I wish I could be like Atticus Finch in "To Kill a Mockingbird" and be told there's a mad dog in the street, whereupon he calmly takes out a shotgun and squeezes the trigger.


    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130415/17080722714/eff-isohunt-bad-facts-make-bad-law.shtml#c165

    And so, to anyone reasonable: that's WHY i put up the wacky characters: it's just self-defense. ]

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:17am

    the thing the labels do the most is stop any attempt to join the digital age. the thing it wants most is to remain in the analogue and pre-internet age. for me, that's the best thing that could happen. there are plenty of artists releasing excellent work without the labels. when you have people like eg Kate Perry who continuously condemns everyone who shares music, including hers, but never thanks those same people who have actually made her career by introducing her to hundreds of thousands of listeners who would never have bothered, it's an uphill battle. that, however, is the way these types want it. when they actually embrace the now and the future and see what they have been missing in all ways, perhaps then there will be change

     

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  20.  
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    Chancius, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:28am

    From A DIY Musician's Point of View

    People need to realize that what they refer to as the "old guard" or "industry" is nothing like it used to be. The biggest problem the major labels have are being bought and owned in the past 10-15 years by conglomerates that had nothing to do with music and tried to run their new acquisitions like they do their canned soup factories. The reason why most of the music they produce is bad is because they let go of most of the experienced music veterans they had and focus their efforts towards only one demographic. They sue and try to kill off innovation because they don't really know what they are doing having no real music experience themselves. This is not about a generation of people who want something for free. This is about a generation of people who can see the transparency of the industry and their greed and don't care for it anymore. We live in a time where the customer dictates more than ever what price and how they want to pay for things and the major labels don't like not having that control anymore.

     

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  21.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    1) The troll says he wants other people to stop trolling him. How cute.
    2) Like DRM, your method is useless and fails to prevent others, like me, from using your name. Without disclosing the algorithm, how is anyone supposed to believe that your little string of numbers is from the "real" OOTB? All one would have do is constantly use your name, no user account, have mis-spellings, constantly attack everyone here, and bam...everyone believes that's the real OOTB.
    And no...using your name IS NOT FRAUD. Perhaps most simply of all, it's an online handle. Not a real name in the legal sense.
    How would I steal your user-name? That would imply that you owned in some measure the account, which obviously you didn't, since by your own admission, you never checked to see if you could in fact make it. Did you ever say to Mike to reserve the user-name, to program into his system that any attempts to use it are to be rejected? No? Then how did I steal that which was never yours?

    As to the quote...yes, that was me, dunno why you said some others instead of naming me directly. Anyway, the context of the quote and you in particular make the "threat" so unrealistic that no-one in their right mind would take it seriously. For you to honestly be afraid for your life, to believe that I seriously meant to kill you, would mean that
    1) There is a conspiracy on Techdirt against you
    2) That I am in regular contact with Mike (most weeks I don't even talk to him in the chatbox)
    3) That Mike knows who you are (somehow)
    4) That Mike knows where you are, despite any possibility of you using a VPN or proxy
    5) That you constitute a threat to the ideals of this site
    6) That Mike and others actually want you dead
    7) That I have a propensity for violence
    8) That I would be willing to travel halfway around the world simply to kill a troll
    9) That I am somehow skilled enough to hide any evidence of said murder
    10) Your algorithm somehow protects you, both your comments and your life.

    Those are ten things that are untrue. Those are ten untrue things that any person with the briefest of glances on this site would know to be untrue.

    Thus, you are not in fact afraid for your life. Your little algorithm does nothing at all and in fact cannot accomplish anything at all. Without knowing the algorithm, anyone can post such numbers and easily masquerade as you, and there would be no way to distinguish. You are simply claiming a fear so as to receive some false sympathy, or to claim elsewhere that the foul pirate miscreants on Techdirt regularly threaten harm to those on the other side of the fence.

     

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  22.  
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    JEDIDIAH, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:34am

    Re: Bullshit

    > The Labels have invested hundreds of millions of dollars into new and innovative technologies,

    I agree with the other guy that calls this sarcasm.

    The labels have done nothing but fight anyone willing to invest in new and innovative technologies. The music industry has done nothing but fight the future.

    Google really doesn't have anything to do with the problems of Big Content.

     

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    Ninja (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:38am

    Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    ARRRRR!!! Without us those waters would be dead boring! And think of all those lawyers and anti-piracy outfits! How would they get their pot, hookers and yachts?

     

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    Ninja (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:40am

    Re: Despite the 'poisioning of the well' Innovation has marched on

    That's what saw the light of day. What about those that never made it? Consider for a moment that Youtube only succeeded after getting massive support (ie: Google) and after services like it were deemed legal but died in the process of scoring that judicial victory?

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:40am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Now, the numbers are, as I explained, to prevent anyone from falsely using my screen name


    I'm genuinely curious -- exactly how do these numbers accomplish that?

    I know you say this:

    If duplicated or imitated, that string of characters (which are by simple algorithm easily verified in one's head) change merely copying my screen name into definite attempt to speak as me, and so from protected free speech into deliberate fraud.


    But that simply makes no sense whatsoever. The addition of cryptic numbers does not alter the legal status of imitators one bit.

     

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  26.  
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    JEDIDIAH, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:41am

    Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    You're just using piracy as a crutch to cover up your own failures. The real problem is that media in general is devalued because it's not 1955 any more. People don't have to pirate, they can simply ignore you and watch cat videos on YouTube instead.

    Beyond that, the real problem is that you can't charge me again for an album or single I've already paid for. The age of media format churn is over.

     

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    Ninja (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 10:54am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Come on, look as I have my non-existent cat walk on my keyboard generating a strong string of nonsensical characters turning my message into some copy-proof-alien-tech message.

    iotaa9ghe4238hwio43TY?%$y45g455U$*O*O@#R@WDFRt46u

    [00+8 1$ 1@|\/|3]

     

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  28.  
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    Official Sarcasm Judge, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 11:00am

    Official Notice

    I hereby certify sarcasm based on the below:
    "efforts of the Labels to build a viable, artist-supporting business model."
    "reasonable Label-determined price"
    "Labels remove all the non-artistic content"
    "supporting their creativity"
    "All of our efforts are hindered by Google and piracy sites."{
    "we can't even afford to pay artists"
    "Our services were user friendly, affordable and directed consumers to the best possible art available."
    "make techies rich, while artists die!"
    "Their goal is total control over that which they do not create, own, or even care about."
    "The 'legacy' entertainment industry is the real innovators!"

    In particular, the line that begins "All our efforts" cement the post's status as sarcasm, not written by label representatives. A label representative would have stated "Google and other piracy sites".

    Therefore, this post is hereby unequivocally certified as sarcasm. Those wishing to appeal the ruling can reply below. I really, really care about your opinion.

     

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  29.  
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    anon, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 11:06am

    Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Content is culture, and humans have a fundamental right to access culture. Access to culture is a requirement to participate in society as society is what creates culture and is also created by culture.

    Next you'll start to rationalize how stealing land from Native Americans was justified because they could have gone to England and purchased the land legally.

     

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    Gwiz (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 11:09am

    Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    And what keeps happening to Mike's notions of artists selling direct, not needing any middlemen or promoters at all?


    Care to link where Mike has said anything remotely resembling this remark? Mike has always maintained that middleman who act as enablers (and not as gatekeepers) will always be valuable to artists.

    Now you are resorting to flat out lies in your crusade to discredit Mike.

    Everyone else seeing this? Blue LIES straight to your face in order to facilitate his arguments. What else have you lied about Blue?

     

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  31.  
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    Franklin G Ryzzo (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 12:01pm

    The original Tyler Crowley article...

    http://web.archive.org/web/20130505064521/http://steepdecline.posterous.com/islands-of-opportunity

    An d here's for a little fair use:



    Islands of Opportunity

    So this past Monday night I'm at a swanky Hollywood Italian joint (Cecconi's) the kind of place where, yep that's Ellen Degeneres pulling up behind me in the valet. Now, at this hosted dinner (thx @fullscreen/@mikecaren) were a dozen smart folks including the presidents of Warner Bros Records, Electra Records, Sony ATV, some other hollywood movers and shakers as well as a few notable LA startups folks (@ChillLive, @LaunchpadLA, @Coloft)

    As we walk past some celebs in the main dining room we were seated in the private dinning room with Damien Hirst's "All You Need Is Love" (sold for 2.5MM) hanging on the wall. Everything is going fine until we get through the personal intros and into what became a "spirited" discussion on what exactly is going on between Tech and Music these days.

    Thankfully, the carnival barker of the music folks made a blog post summarizing the conventional hollywood perspective on the exchange. As the conversation rolled on, I didn't have the heart to paint the honest picture of what is in fact happening, and realize in hindsight, that these good folks deserve to hear the straight truth on how tech innovators currently see the music biz.

    For tech folks, from the 35,000' view, there are islands of opportunity. There's Apple Island, Facebook Island, Microsoft Island, among many others and yes there's Music Biz Island. Now, we as tech folks have many friends who have sailed to Apple Island and we know that it's $99/year to doc your boat and if you build anything Apple Island will tax you at 30%. Many of our friends are partying their asses off on Apple Island while making millions (and in some recent cases billions) and that sure sounds like a nice place to build a business.

    Not far away is Facebook Island, which also taxes at 30%, and we all have friends who are partying hard and making their millions (and in some cases billions) and life sure sounds good on Facebook Island.

    Of course, just across from Facebook is Youtube Island, which taxes at ~50%, and yet we all know friends who are building nice businesses there.

    Hell, over at Microsoft Island, (where I'm camped, and loving it) they're paying people to dock their boats, giving out free land for the first 2 years and they even have open bars!

    Now, we also know of Music Biz Island which is where the natives start firing cannons as you approach, and if not sunk at sea, one must negotiate with the chiefs for 9 months before given permission to dock. Those who do go ashore are slowly eaten alive by the native cannibals. As a result, all the tugboats and lighthouses (investors, advisors) warn to stay far away from Music Biz Island, as nobody has ever gotten off alive. If that wasn't bad enough, while Apple and Facebook Island are built with sea walls to protect from the rising oceans, Music Biz Island is already 5 ft under and the educated locals are fleeing for Topspin Island.

    This is the reality in 2012. Tech innovators and entrepreneurs have many wonderful options and the islands of opportunity are rolling out red carpets (WWDC, F8, WPC, I/O) Unfortunately for the Music Biz, they don't seem to realize that they've scared off any chance of a smart crew landing any time soon. We pray for our brave brothers at Spotify, Soundcloud, Turntable.fm and others, but generally fear for the worst.



    @steepdecline

     

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    jupiterkansas (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 12:18pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    The timestamps are there so he can report back to his bosses (either the MPAA or RIAA or both) that he's out there on the internets fighting piracy, maligning Google, and discrediting Mike Masnick. Gotta keep good accounting of your subversive activities if you want to get paid.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    anonymouse, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 12:27pm

    Re: Bullshit

    Bullshit everything you have written is a lie you dont care about the artists you care about your pocket and how much you can get from the real content creators, you dont give them money you take out loans in their name and they have to pay it back through crooked accounting and they suffer for it all.

    Music creators have the freedom of the internet now and it is easier than ever to produce amazing content for pennies and people are doing that in their millions, there is more music created every day than ever before, good music , amazing music music people would not mind paying for.

    But due to your greed and ignorance and self pity you have alienated everyone, the customers the content creators and the people who could help build a music system online that gave everyone what they wanted without your skimming 99% off the top.

    Music is free at last it is free to be shared and free to be experimented with. you are holding on by the tips of your fingers to the old system, but once you are gone and you will be gone soon, music will be amazingly easy and free for those that do not feel a track of 4 minutes of music is worth more than a few cents at the most, if even that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 12:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    (which are by simple algorithm easily verified in one's head)

    Whose head would know the algorithm besides you? Unless someone else knows it (but since you don't seem to trust anyone, I doubt it) the alphanumeric sequence is meaningless.

     

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  35.  
    identicon
    Wolfy, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 12:57pm

    Re: Despite the 'poisioning of the well' Innovation has marched on

    JJust because these services exist, does not mean that they weren't fought against tooth and nail during their creation. That is what is meant by poisoning the well.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 1:32pm

    Re: From A DIY Musician's Point of View

    agree, its about show & business if you focus on business only or show only you go belly up. an accountant might know a definition of reinvestment, but to understand the music marketplace and artistic talent that knowlege cannot be found in a MBA course, or an accountancy course, or a law school,

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 2:03pm

    Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Copyright exists to try and prevent YOUR immoral takings.

    Go and read the history of copyright, it was created to maintain the control of the stationers company over the printing of books just after they lost the same control as censors. Performance right were created when it looked like recording were viable. The biggest modern proponents of copyright are the publishers and and some descendent of the original creators. Copyright was and has never been about the poor artist, ans has always been about control of their output by other people.
    Further the extension of copyright into derivative works and incidental uses of a work is all about the publishers controlling competition for the limited amount of money people can spend on culture. If the copyright maximalists have their way,their will be no free speech, as the will control all channels of publication, and their will be little culture, just lowest common denominator entertainment that offers nothing new, just rehashes of the ideas controlled by the media corporations.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 4:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    I find that this post cannot be blue.
    First off, there are no strings of characters easily verifiable by simple algorithm in ones head anywhere in this post. Second, When would blue ever call this a "fine site"?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
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    Krish (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 4:47pm

    Even if you think "Apple island's" rates are too high, at least they don't try to destroy your business


    right up until the point where they do

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2013 @ 5:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    out_of_the_blue loathes the enforcement of due process.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    icon
    jupiterkansas (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 7:47pm

    Re: From A DIY Musician's Point of View

    The same goes for the movie business. Most major media companies are owned by multi-national conglomerates where entertainment is one of many revenue streams. The fact that the arts make for a fickle business causes all sorts of frustration.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    icon
    Robert (profile), Oct 25th, 2013 @ 9:19pm

    Re: Official Notice

    Yeah, I just thought about all the stuff Lowery rants about, along with a few others, and how they would reply. Then I opened the flood gates and let it all flow out of me.

    I find I do a much better job when I don't actually try.

    It wasn't good enough though, I really had hoped the sarcasm would be less detectable.

    I guess I was acting as well as Keanu Reeves.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
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    Karl (profile), Oct 26th, 2013 @ 4:38pm

    Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    Clarifying: "And no, consumers don't have any say in those decisions, except to NOT buy the products" -- AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO CONSUME THE PRODUCTS WITHOUT PAYING.

    Yeah, just like consumers have no right to listen to the radio, or watch TV, or check out books from the library, or borrow CD's from a friend.

    I agree that they don't have a right to pirate works, but "piracy" is not the same thing as "consumption without payment."

    And, in fact, there's no way for copyright holders to know by looking at their balance sheets if people are pirating their works, or simply not paying for them.

    Copyright exists to try and prevent YOUR immoral takings.

    No, it absolutely does not.

    In the words of Twentieth Century Music Corp. v. Aiken, the Constitution grants Congress the power to promote "the broad public availability of literature, music, and the other arts."

    Copyright exists to make works available to the public. It has no other purpose. It does not, and has never, existed to prevent anyone's "immoral takings."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
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    Karl (profile), Oct 26th, 2013 @ 4:58pm

    Pirate Island

    The lesson is this: If you fire on all approaching ships, don't be surprised if the only people who visit your island are flying under the Jolly Roger.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
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    Tim Griffiths (profile), Oct 28th, 2013 @ 2:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pirates aren't necessary to success of these "islands".

    To be fair this can work as one shot protection. If some one says something and OOTB wants to prove it wasn't him he can publicly state the way the numbers are made and people would then be able to check the post against others. He is completely paranoid about people putting words in his mouth because he so consistently does it to others.

    Either that or he honestly just can't tell the difference between his posts and people posting as him.

    As for the "legal" stuff,

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Peter Wakefield Sault, Oct 28th, 2013 @ 3:48am

    How to succeed in the music business

    Rule #1: NEVER MENTION THE PLIGHT OF THE PALESTINIANS

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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