People Are Willing To Pay, Even If You Offer Something For Free

from the some-data dept

Last week, we relaunched our Techdirt Insider Shop with a number of new and different offerings, including (for the first time) the ability to do a "pay what you want" option to get some downloads, starting off with downloads of my book, Approaching Infinity, as well as the research report we came out with earlier this year, The Sky is Rising. We often hear from critics that if people can get something for free, they will, but here's a clear cut case of where that's not true (though we've seen it in many other cases as well.) It's only the early going with our store, but already, we've seen that two thirds of people who got the books decided to pay for it, with the average price being just under $5. Over 20% of orders were for $10 or more. We'll be curious to see what happens over time and if it changes. But, once again, it seems to suggest that, even if you're giving content away for free, if people want to support you, they will.


Reader Comments (rss)

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  1.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 2:45pm

    The problem is that techdirt's critics don't understand that people value the work of the author even with copies themselves are abundant. Thus they also don't see why people would buy if they can get it for free.

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 2:46pm

    Re:

    Also, would like to hear from those who didn't pay and why,

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 2:53pm

    Re: Re:

    Also, would like to hear from those who didn't pay and why,

    ummmmm, it was free....

     

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  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 2:55pm

    I'd actually be interested to know how many downloaded books and how much money has been spent on merchandise. I have a feeling that this is the Step2 of retailing.

     

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  5.  
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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 2:56pm

    Re: Re:

    Some of us have practically zero income to devote to non-survival things.

     

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  6.  
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    NetFreeUK, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 2:58pm

    Bingo

    Bingo - exactly right. If you treat fans with respect, they WANT to support you. I bought 6 copies of album of one of my fave indie artists because wanted to support them, even though all their best songs were avail to DL for free. Radiohead's In Rainbows experiment was a resounding success, with all pay-what-you-want fees going straight to the band, not middlemen.

    Fans do not appreciate being alienated and held over a barrel. If an artist, author, studio etc behaves like money grabbing elitists, fans adopt a screw-you-then mindset and treat work like a commodity to be obtained at cheapest price. If they feel a connection with the artist and feel like their money is going to a good cause, they'll voluntarily pay up.

    Unfortunately dumbass industry shills like Anon (aren't they always!) above don't get that and will soon go way of the dinosaur while innovative value adders will flourish to take their place in the creative market.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 3:11pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Figured it was the obvious but I find it's best not to make assumptions

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 3:13pm

    Re:

    Right, because pay what you want has never worked for anyone and never will.

    Except when it does work even though it can't work!

    /shill troll logic

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 3:18pm

    This is exactly right for fans, who will pay to support you. However I don't think that you can make any assumption about "people" in general (not counting paying fans), because some will pay where others won't, for whatever reason they see fit.

    This is about the encouraging shift of a consumer market to a fan market, and that's what most of the successful stunts like most known Radiohead's In Rainbows are about.

    The new way for content producers to get paid is by fans who pays for the content, while non-paying consumers are potential fans in waiting.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 3:34pm

    You mean the sky is rising CCIA Shill Report for Google?

     

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    el_segfaulto (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 3:47pm

    Re: Re:

    Some people may want to give the work an entire read before ponying up. Lord knows I've ready some really bad books by some supposedly good authors [cough]American Gods[/cough] where I wish I could recoup some of my lost money. Give the slow readers some time and they should come around.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 3:59pm

    Re:

    As opposed to the unbiased MPAA/RIAA/BSA funded reports?

    Riiight

     

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    monkyyy, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 4:02pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    some of us download lots of things we delete after 5 minutes in

     

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  14.  
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    Bengie, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 4:03pm

    Re: Bingo

    "Bingo" - I have this image of Randy Quaid from National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation stuck in my head now.

     

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    rubberpants, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 4:15pm

    Re:

    You mean the troll from the entertainment industry?

     

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    Overcast (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 4:16pm

    Broadcast TV is free - yet people choose to pay for cable.
    Radio is free - yet people choose to pay for Sirius.

    But naaa, no one would ever pay for something if there's an alternate for free, lol.

     

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    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 4:26pm

    One interesting side effect...

    This is fascinating. One of the "side effects" of this post seems to be a lot of new downloads, with a much higher percentage of them being done for "free" than what we saw since the store launched. This isn't a surprise, but neat to observe directly. Since we mentioned in this post that the files are available for free (even though that was already on the store), that seems to have encouraged more people to just go and download them for free. Not a surprise: highlight the "free" aspect and people will gravitate to it. But interesting to see how much it happens.

    Of course, it has also resulted in more paid downloads, as some of you (thank you!) also decided to give us some money for the effort.

    None of this is a bad thing. The paid downloads still increase the revenue on an absolute basis, which we might not have seen otherwise, and the free downloads are still great because the goal here is more about spreading the word.

    Either way: please go ahead and download! Feel free to do so for free, or if you'd like to support us and the work that we do, also feel free to toss us whatever you feel is reasonable. We appreciate the support.

     

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  18.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 4:26pm

    Re:

    I don't really consider something that is ad-supported to be "free." I'm just paying with my attention rather than my money. Or, in the case of cable, along with my money.

     

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  19.  
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    rosspruden (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 4:57pm

    Framing the pay

    A clever sales trick I noticed when I bought Approaching Infinity (even though I already own the physical version) was that the ebook was clearly marked "Pay What You Want" with a "Select your own amount" option if you wanted to pay nothing.

    However, the default selection was $5, and selecting the free option meant actively clicking the other button... which makes people feel a little bad not paying at least something when the default option is $5. Subtle, but clever.

     

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  20.  
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    Vog (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 5:33pm

    Re: Framing the pay

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Humble Bundle site does the same thing. Clever indeed.

     

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  21.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 5:45pm

    Re: Framing the pay

    Of course if that's why they bought then it's intersting that 20% of orders were $10+ instead of the defualt $5 or even $0.99.

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 5:59pm

    Re: Re: Bingo

    That's copyrighted imagery and we will have to sue your mind.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 6:13pm

    Another example of this is The Piano Guys on youtube. They started out by simply asking people to head over to their website and donate some $ and become a founder to allow them to make videos full time. Eventually they added high quality formats for free download (limited time). Now they offer them for sale either through itunes, amazon, or directly through their site.

    I have most of their songs, and while I can listen to them for free on youtube, and have downloaded most of their free mp3s, I've probably thrown more money at them than I have any artist in a long time. I proudly wear my founders shirt because I think they're awesome and I want to encourage them to continue.

    The pay what you want idea works, if you can get people invested in the idea of ownership.

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 7:40pm

    Re:

    Broadcast TV is free - yet people choose to pay for cable.
    Radio is free - yet people choose to pay for Sirius.

    But naaa, no one would ever pay for something if there's an alternate for free, lol.


    What are you talking about? It's by and large different content entirely. Not the exact same content available free and for sale as is being discussed by everyone but you, apparently.

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 7:42pm

    Re: One interesting side effect...

    " One of the "side effects" of this post seems to be a lot of new downloads, with a much higher percentage of them being done for "free" than what we saw since the store launched. This isn't a surprise, but neat to observe directly. "

    I suspect that what you are seeing is the difference between your dedicated fans (some might call them kool-aid drinkers or flunkies) doing what you want them to do (paying you), and then the more general public, who have less attachment. Those who don't care or who are less than attached are less likely to pay money.

    You are perhaps confusing what your existing specific fans do with what the general public does.

    It's the sort of reason why when discussing business models I often say "it works for them, but might not work in general", as this sort of business model seems to hinge on already having a bit of a fan base to really make it work.

    Also, you have to wonder what the long tail effect is. Do you get most of the bigger money sales up front (as the toadies line up to get their swill), and then it fades away to being a download service that you have to maintain?

    I am still wondering why you dropped your CwF+RtB tag. Did it wear out? Is it no longer fashionable?

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 7:45pm

    Re: One interesting side effect...

    This is fascinating. One of the "side effects" of this post seems to be a lot of new downloads,

    Sadly, it doesn't seem to work with Step2 does it?

     

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  27.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 8:20pm

    Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    I find it hilarious that you would say that as we're in the middle of an exceptionally successful, and rather high profile effort with a well known partner. I recognize that you feel the need to bash everything we do, but you shouldn't let reality make you blind. It's funny though. Your jealousy really shows through. Must really burn your hide that you're so frequently wrong.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 8:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    113 comments, more than half from you and Marcus. Five new comments since your article pleading for people to participate (four comments by one poster). If this is how you define exceptional success, I must note that you've set the bar exceptionally low.

     

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  29.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 9:21pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Just a suggestion: before opening your trap to expose how clueless you are, you might want to try (just try) to understand the details. I won't explain it all to you, but I'll start small: learn what a "comment" is & learn to count.

    Also, recognize that, as with SOPA, when you are so fucking sure of yourself, chances are, you're completely clueless about what's really going on. Speaking authoritatively about that which you are ignorant does not look good on you. You might want to stop, though I know you won't.

    Do go ahead though. It's amusing to watch you flounder around cluelessly in the dark.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 9:27pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    I actually think your counter is a bit off, you have accumulated about 150+ comments. Unfortunately, 53 of them are from you and 46 from Harper from the Cato Institute. Add in other paid TD staff and more than 2/3's of the comments are from Cato and Techdirt. I don't think it counts as crowd sourcing when your crowd can all fit in the same phone booth.

    Odd that at any given time there are hundreds of people logged on Techdirt yet since the inception, fewer than a dozen (other than those TD and Cato staffers detailed to life support) have bothered to comment on your "exceptionally successful, and rather high profile effort with a well known partner".

    Perhaps you view this as success. But it looks like just another Step2 flop to me.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 9:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Got it. The counter indicates that you've had a whopping 17 concepts generated by persons other than management in a week. Ninety six have been "crowd sourced" by you.

    Earlier remarks about comments stand. You have about a dozen non-management commenters participating in the discussion of the 113 concepts. And of the 150+ comments 53 are yours, 46 belong to Harper from Cato with several from Marcus a a couple from Ho.

    Is that the accuracy you were looking for?

     

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  32.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 11:12pm

    Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Please just look at the evidence and think logically. Every example of similar projects works.

    One prime example is the first Humble indie bundle which made over a million dollars. This was before they had a big fan base.

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 11:16pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "Do go ahead though. It's amusing to watch you flounder around cluelessly in the dark."

    Stating facts is not floundering cluelessly?

    Mike, how desperate are you to deny reality? I mean, we can see it with our own two eyes. Why are you denying it?

     

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  34.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 11:21pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    It could also be what I like to call (and you can see how old I am) the Free/Share-ware conundrum.

    Say you find a virtual item (lets call it a ebook since they are the easiest analogy) and can either purchase it or get it for free. It's really not an essential thing that you need so you cannot justify purchasing it now.. but you would like to peruse it anyway because it has piqued your interest.

    What you do is that you obtain the Free version. Whether that is a cut down condensed version (readers digest style), a few chapters (and not just chapter 1 but a random selection incl chapter 1) or a complete version in a basic format (TXT, HTML, or PDF).

    You read this.. OMG It's like a new universe of wonder has appeared in your brain.. four things could then occur with three being very ethical
    * For condensed/preview (Shareware) version you purchase the full product in a wide range of formats to read anywhere, you also might purchase a full hardcopy to place on a bookshelf and loan out to friends - then the circle starts again with them.

    * For free product (Freeware) even though you have the product there is just this niggling feeling in the back of your mind that, hang on I have an ethical duty to acknowledge this work and how much I apreciated it so I'll throw the author some cash based on how much I can both afford and what value I think it is worth. Also I should thena wide range of formats (maybe even hardcopy) and loan out to friends - then the circle starts again with them.

    * You cannot afford it, feel bad but send a Postcard/Note of acknowledgement to the author and write/talk about it to all and sundry promoting this amazing product. Best Advertisement Ever! [ie: both profit]

    * You are an unethical dick who just wants everything and thinks the world owes them a favour so refuse to do anything unless it's in your best interest. We all know these people, some are politicians, some are just twits. They will always exist but sometimes just maybe they will also tell there friends/acquaintances and they will not be dicks and do the above three.

    Interestingly from a direct marketing and sales point of view the people who do both Shareware/Freeware options above are the ones you want to market too in the future. They are the real bread and butter and will also promote your business/products in the future. Keep their details, keep them happy and you will have a steady cash flow by offering 'share/free' products for life.

     

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  35.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 21st, 2012 @ 11:31pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Flounder, flounder, flounder.

    Keep going. That you don't seem to understand the project is only the source of much laughter here.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 11:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "One prime example is the first Humble indie bundle which made over a million dollars. This was before they had a big fan base."

    You are kidding, right?

    That was purely mass market, getting a number of larger (and smaller) indie game players to all point their sales to one place, and give the consumer all of their products for a pay what you want price. It wasn't done "in space". It was done by converting each of their loyal fan bases into each other's paying customer, at least for that moment.

    What is interesting is that, after 14 such "bundles", their take per bundle really isn't going up that much anymore. The zero to X sales number has pretty much leveled off.

    There will be similar projects where this will work, but it pretty much matches the same pattern. There is a significant base, and they are first in the door waving money and acting all cool, thinking perhaps they are "closer to god" as a result of their purchase. After that, things trail off, and it sort of goes away.

    The HIB has worked in part because it's time limited. Shit or get off the pot.

    It seems more like his old CwF thing... initial good sales, and then, well, everyone ignored it. Mike stopped updating it - clearly not enough in it.

     

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    Prisoner 201, Aug 21st, 2012 @ 11:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "Stating facts is not floundering cluelessly?"

    Fact: I commented on your post.
    Conclusion: Soy milk is killing Earth.

    RAWRRRrr how can you call me clueless when I HAD A FACTS!?!

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 12:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Mike, do you even realize that your attempts at declaring Step2 a huge success have the same effect? Everyone's laughing. It's time you shut it down and moved on.

     

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    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 1:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Wow, your usual "this is my opinion so it's the truth!" bullshit doesn't even make internal logical sense this time around.

    Which is it? Was it "mass market" or just a bunch of indie game fans buying each other's stuff? It can't be both. If you want to claim the latter, explain how people who never normally buy indie games are buying them. Explain why you think that a plateau in sales means that it's a failure despite it regularly pulling in millions of dollars for content that's been available for a length of time (both legally and pirated) - you know, the sales your type usual claim don't happen - especially given that the plateau level is significantly higher than the first bundles.

    "The HIB has worked in part because it's time limited."

    Which neither undermines its concept or its success.

    "It seems more like his old CwF thing... initial good sales, and then, well, everyone ignored it."

    Like most movies? Like most pop albums? Like almost everything mainstream ever? Are you seriously going to claim that if a product doesn't maintain good sales over a long stretch of time then it must be a failure? Because that applies to at least 95% of your beloved corporate roster.

     

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    Lurk-a-lot (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 1:44am

    Re: Re: Framing the pay

    The most clever and subtle thing I find about the bundle is the 'pay more than the average' aspect - as each person pays that extra penny more to get the bonus game, so it drives the average up over time.

     

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    The eejit (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 2:16am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Or, you could give it to a secondhand book store and let someone else get the moeny. That's not really a great deal lost, other than time, is it?

     

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    Ninja (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 3:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    It's amusing, they seem to count the number of replies (and mix erroneously with comments) at Step2 as a measure of success. Srsly, as you said it's amusing. I check Step 2 frequently but I simply comment much less than here. As it should be obvious, the intent of spreading the word is working out wonders even with less comments.

    I wouldn't be surprised if these shills think the number of comments equals the number of readers on your articles heh.

     

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    Ninja (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 3:24am

    Re:

    That. Same happened to me, I watched one video of those guys on youtube and now I'm hooked

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 3:27am

    I'm not gonna pay 10/20/30 dollars for a DVD, which is already a outdated format.

    Download doesn't mean I would buy something in first place.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 4:11am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Ninja,

    Crowdsourcing of ideas requires participation, not silent observation. What's the point in having a "conversation" if just a handful of usual suspects like you turn up to actually say something? It's different from your usual Techdirt blog post. That's why we "shills" try to measure its success by looking at comments and ideas exchanged. And we don't see any. It looks every bit a colossal flop by any yardstick, except Mike's. No one seems to be interested in it. No one seems keen to contribute. How it's dubbed a success is beyond me.

    Perhaps Mike should stick to what he's good at--running a blog. He seems unable to get anyone with any skin in the game to be the change he wants to see in the world. Hell, he couldn't even convince Rob Reid to give away his book for free.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 4:36am

    Re: Re:

    no your actually paying with your money, advertising is not free to the people advertising, they have to pay for it, they put that expense onto their product.

    so you might get "free" tv, but you are paying for it, because you pay more for the products you buy..

    no matter what products you buy, it's all advertised. And you pay for that..

    if you believe that companies do not pay advertisers to acertise, and recoup that expense by charging a higher sticker price for the product, you do not understand basic economics.

    same with google, companies pay google for run adds, those same companies have to increase the price of their product so that they can pay google for the adds.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 4:43am

    Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    seems to me he hit the nail on the head, I expect his predictions will turn out 100% correct.

    a reasoned and logical analysis, and im am equally sure, you have noticed that effect yourself, your fanbois will pay their money, "to be closer to god", but the majority of people are far more decerning.

    for some people "free" is still to much to pay, at some point you have to deliver value..

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 4:48am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Then please articulate this stunning success for us. What I see now is you and Harper responsible for shaping the discussion of the 113 concepts by contributing 100 of the 150 or so total comments. I see about a dozen non- TD staff involved in the discussion. So why is this such an extraordinary success? Are my facts wrong?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 4:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    how is he floundering ??? look more like you are trying to deflect what is clearly A FACT..

    very interesting statistics though..

    it is clear to well everyone that Step2 is NOT a hotbed of innovation or idea.

    what is unaccurate about the post, and how do you explain how he is floundering ?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 4:56am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    I dont think Masnick is laughing.

    you do understand Masnick that you are trying to "cash in" on ideals, not many groups can do that, usually Churches are able to monetise ideals.. but usually their ideals reflect the majority of the population..

    I dont think many (if any) really know what your ideals are.. even less are willing to support it, contribute to it, and especially pay for it.

     

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  51.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 5:02am

    Re: Re: Framing the pay

    forgive me if my math is wrong, but 20% at $10 for a $5 dollar book amortises out to a whopping $6 per book if you dont count the people who pay nothing, or less that $5.

     

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  52.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 5:04am

    can I have free copies of the printed versions of your book ??

    if not,, why not ?

    or does production costs make that impossible for you ??

    if that is the case how can you justify copying works of other people who have born that same cost?

     

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  53.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 5:09am

    if you dont want to give away free copies of your book in hard copy form, will you pay for me to buy a printer, ink and paper so I can print it out myself, then will you pay to have it professionily bound ?

    you must therefore understand to make a song, or a movie mean paying money, money you have to recoup, if you cannot recoup it you dont make the movie..

    you expect to be paid for the expense, who do you think it ok for others to have to pay that expense themselves ?

     

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  54.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 5:17am

    "For free" earns us more money

    I belong to a group that encourages people to make use of local natural produce by, for example, picking apples off trees (with permission) and giving the produce away at the local market.

    Strangest thing is that getting people to accept the free food is really difficult. They usually end up giving us a donation, and that donation is usually more that if we charged for the food.

    We have now had to start giving the money away to local charities.

     

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  55.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 5:22am

    how are you going to justify those payments to the taxation office Mr Masnick ??

    as profit on book 'sales' or more correctly as donations and if so, are you are regered charity ?

    if not, what you are doing is in fact alliciting donations for a product that you also offer for free.

    so the money you recived is donated money, not profit from book sales.

    you will probably find that is an illegal method of elliciting money's.

    so if your 'sale' price is zero, then at $5 your markup is infinate !!! so good title..

     

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  56.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:01am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Funny how pointing out that TV/radio/whatever is "free" (as in at no direct cost to the end consumer) always ends up in a splitting hairs slanging match.

    Yeah, there's a tiny level of indirect payment that goes from the products you buy that advertise on the channels you watch. People who don't watch those channels also pay. People who don't watch TV also pay. People who watch but don't purchase the products advertised pay nothing.

    Let's stop the silly minutae here - if people don't pay for something directly, they will usually consider it free, even if an argument can be made that it's not. The point is that the "free" service providers have found a way to make money, and often predate buying copies, so those who argue against such services being viable are rather clueless.

     

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  57.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:03am

    Re:

    You're deliberately confusing several different points again. Why not understand each one, one at a time, and then address the real issues?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:05am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "Which is it? Was it "mass market" or just a bunch of indie game fans buying each other's stuff?"

    Once again, you fail at basic reading. Perhaps living in a country where most people don't speak your one and only language is driving you crazy.

    They are indie companies, but each had it's own fan base. Separately they perhaps don't have enough to reach a sort of critical mass. But putting all of these companies together to promote basically combines their fan and user bases, which leads to critical mass.

    "Like most movies?"

    Yup, it's why most people don't go to movies on the second week, they don't buy DVDs, they don't rent, they don't pirate, they don't use netflix.

    Are you through being a moron yet Paul?

     

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  59.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:06am

    Re:

    Go on then, stop bullshitting round here and alert the authorities so they can laugh at your conspiracy theories as well... erm investigate your claims. Yeah that's what I meant.

    It's funny how the trolls round here are stopping any pretense at the higher moral ground and are just resorting to baseless personal attacks. Unless of course, dickhead above me has any proof that Mike is breaking any law?

     

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  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Your measuring is usually wrought with partiality (it's no mystery why you typically attack Masnick), so then why should anyone reading your comments actually trust them.

    Furthermore, why would you be stupid enough to believe people should trust your comments or information?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    btrussell (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 7:08am

    Re:

    Buy your own scanner or visit a library

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 7:16am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    I believe he can probably count. But if you want to see for yourself, go ahead. There are 113 concepts. Ninety six by Masnick, seventeen by others. There are about 160 comments or exchanges of ideas on this 113 concepts. Fifty three by Masnick, forty six by the guy from the Cato Institute. Marcus and Ho (TD staff) probably added another 15-20. There are a total of about a dozen other commenter accounting for the remaining forty or so comments. And of that 40+ number, Ninja accounted for 16. By any objective standard this is hardly the, "exceptionally successful" result that Masnick claims it to be. However, I suppose that if he is only measuring it against past Step2 results, it might indeed be "exceptionally successful".

     

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  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 7:18am

    Re: Re:

    visit a library

    funny, that what I keep telling the freeloaders

     

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  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 7:27am

    Re:

    "how are you going to justify those payments to the taxation office Mr Masnick ??

    as profit on book 'sales' or more correctly as donations and if so, are you are regered charity ?

    if not, what you are doing is in fact alliciting donations for a product that you also offer for free.

    so the money you recived is donated money, not profit from book sales.

    you will probably find that is an illegal method of elliciting money's.

    so if your 'sale' price is zero, then at $5 your markup is infinate !!! so good title.."

    It is wonderful that you are trying so hard to engage with people trollish AC.
    There are however just a few little errors you need to correct.

    Firstly, in terms of the written work itself.
    "how are you going to justify those payments to the taxation office Mr Masnick ??"

    Every sentence should start with a capital letter, and if the sentence is intended to be a question, you should use one question mark to indicate that.
    In written English, duplicating, tripling or quadrupling punctuation marks does not indicate increased intensity it simply suggests stupidity on the part of the writer.

    "as profit on book 'sales' or more correctly as donations and if so, are you are regered charity ? "

    Start every sentence with a capital letter, 'regered' does not mean anything, you may have mean 'registered' but a reader could only guess at that, it is up to you to ensure that what you write is what you mean to write. Good work on limiting yourself to one question mark. Good boy.

    "if not, what you are doing is in fact alliciting donations for a product that you also offer for free. "

    Start every sentence with a capital letter, 'alliciting' is not a word in English, you may have meant 'eliciting' but you actually meant 'soliciting'. Try using a dictionary for the harder words, both for confirmation of spelling and meaning.

    "so the money you recived is donated money, not profit from book sales. "

    Start every sentence with a capital letter. 'recived' is not a word, you probably meant 'received'

    "you will probably find that is an illegal method of elliciting money's. "

    Start every sentence with a capital letter. 'elliciting' is incorrect spelling for 'eliciting' and soliciting would still have been the better word to use in context. 'money's' should be 'monies'. Please do try a little harder with these things.

    "so if your 'sale' price is zero, then at $5 your markup is infinate !!! so good title.."

    Oh dear!
    On the plus side, your little joke is quite funny, he has a book for sale called 'Approaching Infinity' and you incorporated it's title into your comment.
    But back to basics.
    Start every sentence with a capital, it really is important,
    also 'infinate' is not a word, 'infinite' is what you should have written and unfortunately it does rather disrupt the attempted humour if you get that wrong.
    '!!!', does not add emphasis, all it does is add credence to the concept that you may be less clever than you wish to appear to be, the same applies to '..'

    Please do not take these corrections as being a discouragement of any kind, simply correct your errors and once we have you writing with clarity, I can pass you on this course and you can get to work on comprehension and logic, areas that we cannot even attempt until you have the basics right.

     

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  65.  
    icon
    Leigh Beadon (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 8:32am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    They are indie companies, but each had it's own fan base. Separately they perhaps don't have enough to reach a sort of critical mass. But putting all of these companies together to promote basically combines their fan and user bases, which leads to critical mass.

    Weird, because I had never played a single game by a single one of the companies participating in Humble Bundle before I discovered it. Neither had most of the other people I know who purchased it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 8:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "Weird, because I had never played a single game by a single one of the companies participating in Humble Bundle before I discovered it. Neither had most of the other people I know who purchased it."

    Weird that you don't understand marketing, do you?

    Do you think it would be ONLY people who knew about the companies? Do you not think that this sort of think leads to "people talking about it"? Do you not think that this move created buzz, that got it talked about outside of the intial group? You know... WORD OF MOUTH?

    I sort of know when you and Paul get like this, it's because I score a very valid point, and you hate to accept it.

    You can join Paul in the "not yet stopped being a moron" class.

     

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  67. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 8:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "Fact: I commented on your post.
    Conclusion: Soy milk is killing Earth. "

    What the fuck is that stuff? Are you such a child that you cannot go and look and see reality?

    Fucking moron. You can join Paul and Marcus.

     

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  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 10:40am

    Well at least your argument doesn't work for video games.

    Onlive is the ultimate drm. 0 piracy, and you pay for what you use.

    See? It can exist in today's world. Unfortunately just not with books, music or movies.

     

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  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 12:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    Or the problem could be that they get a bit baffled by someone arguing a point that fully supports their own view, but when the person arguing the point seems to think it somehow does the opposite.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 2:27pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You keep telling freeloaders to go to a place where they get stuff for free? Interesting. If only there were a business model that could be followed that would allow that...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 2:28pm

    Re: Re:

    Come on... there's far more flaws in these arguments before you even his the grammar nazi phase!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 2:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "But putting all of these companies together to promote basically combines their fan and user bases, which leads to critical mass"

    But, they're still indie companies. Which, despite your rampant xenophobia, means they're still indie. Unless your definition of mainstream is "lots of indie companies", which really doesn't make any sense in the universe most sane people live n.

    "Yup, it's why most people don't go to movies on the second week, they don't buy DVDs, they don't rent, they don't pirate, they don't use netflix."

    You really don't understand the very clear words I typed, do you?

    "Are you through being a moron yet Paul?"

    You clearly don't understand English, so you're one to talk I suppose.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 2:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One interesting side effect...

    "Do you think it would be ONLY people who knew about the companies? "

    Weird, that sounds like this:

    "getting a number of larger (and smaller) indie game players to all point their sales to one place, and give the consumer all of their products for a pay what you want price."

    You're not admitting you're full of shit, are you?

     

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  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:14pm

    Re: Re:

    ill just email the US tax office now for clarification that Masnick is not a regeristed charity.. and inform them of the bait and switch..

    apart from that, I dont care, masnick will never make any real money..

    he cant even hold down a 'normal' job..

    I dont have to get involved, I just have to bring it to the taxation offices attention..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:16pm

    Re: Re:

    deflect much ?? .... dick

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 6:20pm

    Re: Re:

    nice that you at least did not try to address the issues, and actual argument.. but that is clearly beyond you.. basic english must be ALL you know..

    this just shows even an idiot can be a grammer nazi, even one that is incapable of responding to the actual argument..

    I did ask rather SIMPLE questions, but even simple questions are beyond you..

    it's called deflection, and trying to hide behind the truth..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Aug 22nd, 2012 @ 10:12pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    "ill just email the US tax office now for clarification that Masnick is not a regeristed charity.. and inform them of the bait and switch.. :

    Go on then, that would achieve more than anything you ever typed here - assuming you're not simply lying about him again. Do you have any evidence for your claims of wrongdoing? Probably not, but that's never stopped you.

    "apart from that, I dont care, masnick will never make any real money"

    Yes, we can tell you don't care from the way you obsessively attack him.

    "he cant even hold down a 'normal' job.. "

    Define "normal". What's your occupation, I'm sure we can compare and contrast Mike's career with yours? I'm sure he'll be found lacking compared to the glorious achievements you would demonstrate if only you'd identify yourself. Go ahead, astound us.

    "I dont have to get involved, I just have to bring it to the taxation offices attention.."

    ...and when it turns out you're just lying again and Mike's endeavours continue uninterrupted?

     

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  78.  
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    btrussell (profile), Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 4:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "...and when it turns out you're just lying again and Mike's endeavours continue uninterrupted?"

    Not quite.

    Mike sues the bastard for defamation, thereby making money the "normal" all-american way. Litigation.

     

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  79.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2012 @ 8:15am

    Re: Re: Re:

    I'm no Masnick fan, but I think this is a bit over the top. First of all, there's no requirement to be a registered charity to accept donations. The tax implications are the question. Donations to a charity are tax deductible. Donations to other entities is not. Donations also are subject to reporting as income.

    As far as him holding a "real job" I don't think there's an argument to be made that he is not successful. While I disagree with him on virtually everything, there's no denying that he is very smart and extremely committed. He has made himself a prominent (albeit shrill and misguided) voice in an extremely important debate. And he's able to earn a living along the way. Normal jobs are fast evaporating as the norm. So my counsel would be to continue to represent your side of the debate and forget about trying to embroil him in a tax scandal that doesn't exist and would be of little interest to the IRS anyway. JMHO.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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