If David Cicilline Gets His Way; It Would Destroy Content Moderation

from the consequences dept

Last week we looked at the various antitrust bills written by House Democrats (though with Republicans co-sponsors conjured up at the last minute with an assist from Rupert Murdoch), and noted that none of them seemed likely to really solve the problems of internet consolidation. The crown jewel bill comes from Rep. David Cicilline, who is spearheading this entire antitrust effort. We discussed some of the problems with his bill last week, but a closer reading suggests that it would also create a disaster for content moderation. The bill reads:

It shall be unlawful for a person operating a covered platform, in or affecting commerce, to engage in any conduct in connection with the operation of the covered platform that—

(1) advantages the covered platform operator’s own products, services, or lines of business over those of another business user;
(2) excludes or disadvantages the products, services, or lines of business of another business user relative to the covered platform operator’s own products, services, or lines of business; or
(3) discriminates among similarly situated business users.

This language is clearly designed to target things like Google offering its own local reviews and listings rather than Yelp's or TripAdvisor's. And there are reasonable arguments to be made that a company like Google maybe should just use its own search ranking algorithm to see whether or not users prefer those 3rd party listings to its own.

But... the overly broad language in the Cicilline bill seems likely to have massive unintended consequences regarding content moderation in ways I don't think Cicilline would support. Indeed, for unclear reasons, an early draft of Cicilline's bill had more limiting language on part (3) above, such that it only covered "material" discrimination over services involving "the sale or provision of products or services." But the final language is much more broad and says it's an antitrust violation if there's "discrimination among similarly situated business users."

But here's the thing that people who have no experience with content moderation never seem to realize: everyone who is on the receiving end of a moderation decision they disagree with, insists that they are being treated unfairly compared to some other "similarly situated" user, even if the reality (and context) suggest otherwise. But by saying that it's an antitrust violation to discriminate between "similarly situated" business users, that's going to make those claims become particularly legally fraught.

That's going to open up a massive loophole regarding content moderation. Let's take a few examples, starting with Parler. As you may recall, Parler was kicked off AWS for hosting, and also kicked out of both the Google Play Store and the Apple iOS App Store (though it has since returned to the App Store).

Parler sued Amazon, claiming it was an antitrust violation, which got laughed out of court. But, if Cicilline's bill becomes law, suddenly this becomes an open question again. Parler could easily argue that the removal was discrimination under the definition of the bill. After all, a key point in Parler's lawsuit was that Amazon treated Twitter differently than it treated Parler.

And, under the definition in (3), Parler could say that Amazon discriminated against it as compared to the "similarly situation business user" Twitter.

This might not impact Parler's lawsuit specifically, since enforcement of Cicilline's bill falls on government entities rather than private parties, but it opens it up to "any Attorney General of a state," and I can pretty much guarantee that there are a bunch of state AGs who would happily step in and claim that these moderation efforts against Parler violated the law.

But it goes even further than that. Suddenly Twitter banning Project Veritas or Facebook shutting down events created by Infowars would raise the same questions. And all they'd need to do is find a friendly state AG to take them on.

In short, this antitrust bill would open up a huge loophole for propaganda or garbage fire websites that were banned (or even just diminished) to claim it was an antitrust violation, because they were treated differently than "similarly situated business users."

Just think of how the PragerU lawsuits against YouTube would appear very different under this bill as well.

It seems odd that a Democrat like David Cicilline would want to put in place an antitrust bill that would make it open season for Republican propaganda outfits, and their supportive AGs, to force social media companies to not just host, but to promote, their content (not doing so might be seen as "discrimination" compared to similarly situated websites), but it seems like that's what he's done. Perhaps that's the compromise that it took to get a Republican co-sponsor on board, but it's hard to see how this is a worthwhile trade-off.

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Filed Under: antitrust, competition, content moderation, david cicilline, discrimination
Companies: amazon, apple, facebook, google, parler


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  1. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 9:45am

    (1) advantages the covered platform operator’s own products, services, or lines of business over those of another business user;

    Isn't that a ban on (among other things) innovation? Or in fact any change that doesn't provide equal or worse valuation for the host?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 9:55am

    (2) excludes or disadvantages the products, services, or lines of business of another business user relative to the covered platform operator’s own products, services, or lines of business; or

    This seems to ban new market entrants. Since any new product that secures any market share would naturally disadvantage the "products, services, or lines of business" of their competitors.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 9:57am

    Is there anything more Republican than forcing people who disagree with them to host speech they don’t want to host?

    …okay, there is the anti-abortion thing, but still.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 9:59am

    (3) discriminates among similarly situated business users.

    Just how do you list hundreds of equivalent businesses without apparently discriminating against some due to their position in the list? Or, how do you list all state Attorney Generals without putting one at the bottom of the list?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:00am

    how do you list all state Attorney Generals without putting one at the bottom of the list?

    Put the names side by side in an Excel spreadsheet. That way, there is no bottom. 🙃

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:01am

    Re:

    I was going to say go with the empty set: "There are NO state AGs (and it's illegal for there to be any)"

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:02am

    Re:

    That is the plan of totalitarians - everybody is guilty you just choose who to enforce against for control.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:05am

    And when they run out of “undesirables” to punish, they’ll eventually turn inward and punish those who aren’t “loyal enough”.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:13am

    Re:

    All right, be pedantic, listing them sideways still has a first and last entry, and the person in the last place can still act all aggrieve.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10. identicon
    kallethen, 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:40am

    Re:

    Use a Mobius strip! That way there is no beginning and no end.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:43am

    so disney or youtube will have to host comments ,or videos from extremist pro nra supporters or anti vaxxers if it has any website that has user comments or ads ,
    this almost destroys moderation completely also section 230 says services have a right to moderate and remove content.
    if someone posts a pro vax ad theyn must also host antivaxx content
    it,ll be very hard to block spam if this law go,s through.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:48am

    'We're both selling ads but you only kicked me off, so...'

    (3) discriminates among similarly situated business users.

    Oh yeah, I can't possibly see that one being abused to hell by dishonest individuals to argue that kicking them off when the platform hasn't kicked every other business off constitutes discrimination.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:50am

    There is no subsection (f)(4)(i)-(iii).
    Now in (g)(4)(B)(i)-(iii).....but then, it's not referenced in main text

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14. icon
    sumgai (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 11:11am

    There is no subsection (f)(4)(i)-(iii).
    Now in (g)(4)(B)(i)-(iii).....but then, it's not referenced in main text

    True, but then again, I don't see anywhere in TFA that either section, or their contents, are referenced.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15. identicon
    TheDumberHalf, 15 Jun 2021 @ 11:27am

    Who doesn't want spam on every forum

    Without content moderation, piracy, porn and spam would be rampant. I mean, if that's the universe they want...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16. icon
    sumgai (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 11:37am

    Having read the Bill itself (as linked) to research a response above, I found this particular tidbit interesting;

    [from Section 2, subsection (f), paragraph (3)]

    (3) REPEAT OFFENDERS.--If the fact finder determines that a covered platform has engaged in a pattern or practice of violating this Act, the court shall consider requiring that the Chief Executive Officer forfeit to the United States Treasury any compensation received by that person during the 12 months preceding or following the filing of a complaint for an alleged violation of this Act.

    Seems to me that someones wants to codify a way to more easily pierce the corporate veil, no?, But horrifically, it states "any compensation", not just some random percentage keyed to how much money the CEO made per the actual offense. That's stupifying right there. Like as in, every CEO would immediately shutter all possible places where one or more persons could post.... as in, post anything - blog responses, advertisements, lists, anything at all. Thus quoted each and every CEO: "Not in my wallet you don't!"

    Thus rendering the Internet null and void after barely reaching nascent adulthood. Sad. JUST. FUCKING. SAD.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17. icon
    Toom1275 (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 12:05pm

    everyone who is on the receiving end of a moderation decision they disagree with, insists that they are being treated unfairly compared to some other "similarly situated" user, even if the reality (and context) suggest otherwise.

    Gonna recycle a previous comment because it's relevant again here:


    There was this shithead troll on Ars who edited his own posts into false accusations against Ars's moderation.

    https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=39571969#p39571969

    It's almost as pathetically transparent as Woody thinking that typing others' names onto his comments would fool anybody.

    Ot trolls there and here on Techdirt hallucinating conspiracies against them for being identified as trolls by the community.

    Some Ars commenters show that these kinds of trolls show child-level intellects:

    50me12 wrote:

    I used to moderate a popular gaming forum. It was astonishing / maybe a little horrifying how often people's reaction to any action by the mods was something to the effect of "out to get them". The user always felt that they clearly had reasons for their actions / were justified, and they were unable to believe / understand that the moderator might also have reasons for their actions, aside from 'bias' or whatever random verb they selected. 99.99% of situations where someone went off about how the mods were out to get them, they were just full of it. Human nature can be a pain.

    Starke replied:

    I moderate chat for a twitch stream. There's a bot that posts a warning every 15 minutes not to backseat game. It's the same message every time. We had a kid in chat who went off on the bot, telling it to shut up and leave him alone. The streamer ran out of patience for it and banned them after the third time. I read the ban appeal where this kid's defense was basically, "Nightbot started it," and, "was saying mean things about me."

    And here we have Woody keeps ranting about how the automated spam filter is doing its job correctly.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18. icon
    ECA (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 1:34pm

    End of Adverts

    "(1) advantages the covered platform operator’s own products, services, or lines of business over those of another business user;
    (2) excludes or disadvantages the products, services, or lines of business of another business user relative to the covered platform operator’s own products, services, or lines of business; or
    (3) discriminates among similarly situated business users. "

    REALLY?
    So a person can not advert or support 1 product over another? That a spammer can over run a sight because we DONT like his products, and he gets Kicked?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 2:39pm

    Re: Re:

    Or just a circle.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20. identicon
    Bobvious, 15 Jun 2021 @ 2:47pm

    David Sisyphean

    It shall be unlawful for a political representative, or any allied lobbyist, to engage in any conduct in connection with the operation of political representation that—

    (1) advantages the political representative's own policies, voter access, or personal situation over those of another political representative; (2) excludes or disadvantages the policies, voter access, or personal situation of another political representative relative to the political representative's own policies, voter access, or personal situation; or (3) discriminates among similarly situated political representatives.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 3:06pm

    There are sites that have altered entire niches by allowing only certain advertisers.

    We do have antitrust laws, do we not? Just apply those.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 3:21pm

    How likely are the bills to pass?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 4:33pm

    Re:

    Very likely. The bills are for American Law and the American Public, and will be heard in front of American judges in American courts. They are not intended for the tiny band of commie intellectual lepers (mostly foreigners) that frequent this site.

    I understand why you clueless idiots don't like it, but look at it this way:

    You support the idea that black and sexually confused people should get special treatment, right? You're big advocates of that, because of the historical abuse suffered at the hands of straight white people. That seems fair (to you), right?

    So, just imagine that every business is a different color with a different sexual orientation. That's pretty close to the actual truth. AND, imagine it was AGAINST THE LAW to discriminate against people of different color or different sexual orientations. That would be a good thing, right?

    It's a "rainbow coalition" argument against discrimination. You're actually FOR that, right? Right?

    Isn't it amazing that Techdirt is the only forum in the universe where asking the question "Right?" marks you as a troll. You guys are so funny!

    1000:1, you racist bigots that discriminate against any opinion but your own will hide my comment. Any takers? See you in court (in the future).

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 4:40pm

    Eh, hard to say offhand. Both parties have people gunning for 230 but for diametrically opposed reasons and with contradictory goals(one wants less moderation, the other wants more), something which should act as a huge roadblock were it not for the fact that the primary purpose of such bills is almost certainly nothing more complex than PR stunts most of the time, such that what they would actually do is given a much lower priority than what they are claimed to do.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 6:32pm

    Re: Re:

    Given Hamilton's support, it's about as likely to succeed as Shiva's lawsuit against Techdirt.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 7:08pm

    Re: Re:

    you racist bigots that discriminate

    Context suggests that by "sexually confused," you mean "not heterosexual cisgender." Sounds pretty bigoted of you.

    You support the idea that black and sexually confused people should get special treatment, right? You're big advocates of that, because of the historical abuse suffered at the hands of straight white people. That seems fair (to you), right?

    No. They shouldn't get special treatment. They should get identical treatment. Not better, not worse than "straight white people."

    just imagine that every business is a different color with a different sexual orientation. That's pretty close to the actual truth. AND, imagine it was AGAINST THE LAW to discriminate against people of different color or different sexual orientations. That would be a good thing, right?

    But this bill isn't talking about every business, is it? It has no problem at all with big media/telecom advantaging its content over other businesses by zero-rating its own offerings, does it?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 7:32pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Well, you might be right, because I don't know what "not heterosexual cisgender" means. What does that mean? Is that English? I looked it up:

    denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.

    "this newfound attention to the plight of black trans folks by primarily cisgender allies is timely and necessary"

    Wow, learn something new every day. Cisgender. It is a word after all. Birth sex is another new concept, as if your sex can change. BOOM! You're a new sex. Not male, not female, something that comes from your imagination. That's also interesting and novel, I'm not sure how to respond to that, it's outside of any experience I've ever had, or care to.

    I wonder how all these ideas relate to the article and bills at issue.

    Happy to see you didn't hide my comment, though. That's good news, that you allow people to write and read differing opinions. Another new leaf for you guys, good for you.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 8:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I also think it might be a bit misleading to describe your sex "at birth". It's not really birth that defines your sex, it happens when your DNA is first manufactured inside your mama (or maybe test-tube). That's right, isn't it? You can always fully ascertain someone's sex by examining their DNA, I think that's true. Maybe it's not, I would be happy to examine a reference that says otherwise.

    "Sex. The simplest thing DNA can tell you is whether someone is male or female. Apart from some very rare cases, that doesn't even involve looking at their DNA sequence - all you need to know is whether they have X and Y chromosomes (making them male) or a pair of Xs (which makes them female)."

    What you think and what you feel are a different than what you are. You are male or female, assuming you consist of organic human matter with DNA.

    I'm still confused about "cis gender". No, I'm not confused about MY gender, I'm clear about that. I'm wondering why anyone else confused about THEIR gender. Usually they know. I mean, I like to see how people dress and act, it's GREAT FUN to look at people, sometimes even to burst out loud laughing, that's my favorite. You can dress like a lady, you can talk and walk like a lady, wear lipstick, high heels, thongs, the whole 9 yards. Doesn't mean you ARE a lady, or I can't laugh out loud when I see you.

    I mean, in Texas, that we usually do. Where are ya'll from? Another planet?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 9:10pm

    Re:

    Huh, you don't say. Huh. "diametrically opposed reasons" with "contradictory goals" that are "nothing more complex than PR stunts".

    Are you sure?

    You're not American, are you? We take laws (and God and Judges) more seriously here.

    But to each their own. I'll bet you're from Estonia. I went there once, Tallinn, I think, nice country, friendly people, and a few lone crazy protesters. They sounded just like you, but they were talking about the Duma, I think. Otherwise almost a word for word repeat.

    Am I right about that? You from Estonia? I'm from Texas! I love it here.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30. icon
    Boba Fat (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 9:35pm

    I think maybe this should apply to ISPs, not web sites.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 10:52pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Sex. The simplest thing DNA can tell you is whether someone is male or female. Apart from some very rare cases, that doesn't even involve looking at their DNA sequence - all you need to know is whether they have X and Y chromosomes (making them male) or a pair of Xs (which makes them female)."

    Are you sure there are only two sexes?

    I mean, I like to see how people dress and act, it's GREAT FUN to look at people, sometimes even to burst out loud laughing, that's my favorite. You can dress like a lady, you can talk and walk like a lady, wear lipstick, high heels, thongs, the whole 9 yards. Doesn't mean you ARE a lady, or I can't laugh out loud when I see you.

    Why does it matter how a person dresses or who they want to have sex with, and what is accomplished by your attempts to ridicule them because they don't fit into your worldview? The only reason it's "unusual" now anyway is because a few thousand years ago some people got it in their heads (most likely out of fear and/or a desire to control others) that people with different body parts should be treated differently.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32. icon
    PaulT (profile), 15 Jun 2021 @ 11:17pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "all you need to know is whether they have X and Y chromosomes (making them male) or a pair of Xs (which makes them female)."

    So, as long as you ignore people with XXY chromosomes (or XXYY or XXXYY), Turner syndrome or Trisomy X, hermaphrodites, intersex individuals, etc.,etc. then everything is really simple? I know you invent fantasy versions of the world so that your mind can deal with facts, but the real world is more complicated.

    As usual, you try to sound clever, but all you do is announce your ignorance. Try learning some actual facts, I find that educated people are often not as angry, bigoted and hateful as you.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2021 @ 11:58pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I see, your considered retort is "I know you are but what am I?". Are you 5?

    Boys are boys, girls are girls, and aliens from another planet are neither. I understand that. You want to focus on the exceptions, rather than the OVERWHELMING RULE that boys are boys and girls are girls. Up to you, it's a free country. Not sure that's true for where you're from, but I'm an open minded person. I can accept your ideas. Watch:

    OK, Mr. Exceptions. You focus on the exceptions if you like.

    And by the way, I'm not angry, bigoted or hateful. Ever see the statue of Buddha with a big belly laughing out loud? That's me.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34. icon
    Toom1275 (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 12:15am

    Re: Re:

    the tiny band of commie intellectual lepers

    Why refer to yourself as a plural? Because you think the voices in your head are real people?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2021 @ 12:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Why is your question in blue? Yes, I am sure there are only two sexes, in the same way I am sure people usually have two legs. Not everybody does, of course, war veterans, for example, may have lost a leg. Same goes for two eyes, two ears, one nose, all the common features of people. At for least people I know, that live in Texas. Two sexes here, that's about it.

    It doesn't matter to me how people dress (at all!), I just like to laugh. I like to laugh right out loud, openly and often. You should try it sometime. Python boots in my courtroom make me laugh. Men in lipstick make me laugh. This site makes me laugh.

    Yes, Texas culture is a bit unique, you've probably heard the expression "That's totally Texas!", meaning CRAZY. We're not so crazy, not more than many other people, anyway. We just like to sit and laugh at total strangers and friends alike, it's kind of a local custom. Ask any Texan what they and they love about Waco and they will likely list a few items: brisket, football, higher speed limits, tacos and kolaches. And laughing at other people! We love that here.

    But when someone wears Python Boots in MY COURT, I guarantee you I will have a BIG O Belly Laugh. I laugh just thinking about it.

    Same for men in women's clothing, or men with makeup. Not so much for women in men's clothing, that usually means they're hard working ranch hands or attorneys or such. Some of those ladies look FIERCE, and that's just fine with me. One is funny in a useless kind of way (men who look like ladies), and the other one (reflecting a serious work ethic) worthy of a little respect and consideration. I'm guessing that you're more of the former and less of the latter. Am I right?

    Read the Bible, that might help you.

    I'm not bigoted, I think everyone can do anything they want. One time I even saw a dog that could walk on two legs and sing. I laughed at that, too. Here's a fierce looking woman: https://www.sheppardmullin.com/jayers

    Clearly a lady, but check out the jacket. Very masculine, no? Don't mess with her, she's serious! I just love it when she comes to my court, even more than the dancing dog that could sing. She's amazing!

    See? I'm open minded. How about you?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36. icon
    PaulT (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 1:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "I see, your considered retort is "I know you are but what am I?". "

    No, my retort was that you ignored a lot of evidence to come up with your false dichotomy, and that when that pesky reality comes in the real world is much harder than your fantasies.

    But, keep up the game of pretending to be right while announcing how wrong you are about everything. Your response to mine really helps illustrate it.

    "You focus on the exceptions if you like."

    Yes, I will focus on the minorities you seek to subjugate through your hatred and ignorance. The fact that people like you don't like the fact that they exist should not cause them to be stripped of equal rights.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 1:45am

    Re:

    As always it's most telling how for all the furor aimed at 'reigning in' online platforms when it comes to applying any regulations to ISP's you get nothing but deafening silence from the same politicians who were so in favor of regulations moments before.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2021 @ 1:58am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "false dichotomy" "pesky reality", "stripped of equal rights", uh, what?

    Do your arguments sound as Soviet to you as they do to me?

    Try laughing more, it's good for the soul. Reading the bible is good, too. Try that much? I'm guessing no.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39. icon
    PaulT (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 2:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I prefer non-fiction. Maybe you need to try some of that too, since you apparently don't know what adult words mean.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40. icon
    techflaws (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 8:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Read the Bible, that might help you.

    Been there, done that. Too much hate and BS.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41. icon
    techflaws (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 9:02am

    Re: Re:

    I'm from Texas! I love it here.

    And why not? After enjoying the 2021 Texas power crisis you guys seem to be having fun with levee systems. Well done!

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/texas-levees-hurricane-trump-wal l-b1862898.html

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2021 @ 9:48am

    re-enable Net Neutrality and the associated parts! that would be an easier way forward! why make life so difficult when an easier way forward is so obvious? if this prick wants recognition, get by being sensible, putting forward a bill that'll benefit all, especially the Internet, that's where more business is done than anywhere else today and is getting more popular and used by the minute!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 10:14am

    Re: Re: Re:

    That's almost impressive, that wall had already been a stupid PR stunt for gullible fools but even then they somehow managed to make it even more boneheaded by scrapping parts of a flood and hurricane mitigation system to build it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44. icon
    Toom1275 (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 11:14am

    If David Cicilline Gets His Way; It Would Destroy Content

    FTFY

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 12:00pm

    There is no greater hate than “Christian love”.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2021 @ 3:54pm

    Re: Re:

    “you racist bigots”as ever your projection is front and center.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2021 @ 3:56pm

    Re: Re:

    Remember when you used to be from Massachusetts? Or did you forget like you forgot to take your meds again?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2021 @ 5:44pm

    Re:

    Christians to the lions!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 7:11pm

    It’s quite simple

    “it open season for Republican propaganda outfits, and their supportive AGs”
    It would also make it open season for Democrat propaganda outfits like CNN, MSNBC, WaPo to continue on eternally as well. It offers a mandate for sites like Parler to host Democrats no mater what fake nonsense they spout. It would protect the ability to spread lies wide enough to disrupt information cycles away from anything they don’t want to have a focus on.
    So yes, Republicans can continue to spread a combination of truths and slanted but technically accurate; Democrats can continue to spread blanket fiction, in more places.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50. icon
    Toom1275 (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 7:58pm

    Re: It’s quite simple

    Republicans can continue to spread a combination of truths and slanted but technically accurate; Democrats can continue to spread blanket fiction, in more places.

    [Proyects facts diametrically opposite to reality]

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190117/15361941413/splinters-our-discontent-review-netw ork-propaganda.shtml

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2021 @ 9:01pm

    Re: It’s quite simple

    Well you sort of tried, in a low effort kind of way.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 9:05pm

    Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Breaking the news:
    https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-News-Exposing-Establishment-Corruption-ebook/dp/B08LDW29XN

    Let ’s paraphrase what Mike Godwin states:
    Taken as a whole this is a well sourced book. It sets on paper what many Republicans, Libertarians, and others have said for a while. For over the last decade American media has quickly slid to the American “left”. Following Clinton’s 2016 loss many media outlets have slipped into propaganda. Reputable companies will still issue corrections, eg NYT, after the fact.

    A law like this would allow Democrats to say what they want on any platform, just as much as Republicans on conservative platforms.

    It’s not hard to see why a Democrat would be happy about forcing Parler, FoxNews, etc to host their propaganda.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53. icon
    WarioBarker (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 9:26pm

    Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    A book written by the editor-in-chief of Breitbart, a well-known source of lies and Republican propaganda (but I repeat myself). Hard pass.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54. icon
    PaulT (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 10:36pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    "After enjoying the 2021 Texas power crisis"

    Year ain't over yet...

    https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2021/06/14/ercot-asks-texans-to-reduce-electric-use- after-issuing-conservation-alert/

    We've seen how a power grid that's isolated and unmaintained for political reasons operates in cold weather. Now, let's see how it copes in the summer...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 11:02pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Prove a single time they posted lie. Prove a single time they posted anything inaccurate and didn’t fix their error with a correction or retraction

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56. icon
    PaulT (profile), 16 Jun 2021 @ 11:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    "Prove a single time they posted anything inaccurate and didn’t fix their error with a correction or retraction"

    What I find amusing is that you always include this caveat, presumably since it excuses the "lie on the front page, apologise a few weeks later on page 23" tactic so common among certain types of tabloids.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 12:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Are your referring to the NYT run the headline fact check it later methodology? The MSNBC methodology?

    Or are you just upset they’re right more than wrong (like the NYT). He, at least both newspapers actually retract their false stories with page 23 statements.

    That’s a better track record than WaPo who won’t retract anything without threats of litigation.
    Still pushes long debunked nonsense.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 12:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Whataboutism is not a defense of your own source's problems, nor is your binary instance on pretending that anyone who disagrees with you watches or reads your perceived enemies. I don't give a shit what WaPo does in your mind, as I pay less attention to them as I do to what your echo chamber does.

    In reality, mistakes are made and honestly apologised for. Some places use it as a propaganda tactic to fool the weak minded into supporting positions they wouldn't normally support if they only saw the truth of the matter. You seem to congregate to places best known for the latter.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59. identicon
    Rocky, 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:09am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    A sample:

    Fall River, Massachusetts was not 'built by immigrants.'

    An undocumented immigrant "was arrested on suspicion of arson in (the) Wine Country fires that have killed at least 40 residents."

    The "establishment media ignored" President Donald Trump’s Fourth of July event.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "The simplest thing DNA can tell you is whether someone is male or female."

    It really can't...and that you think it does speaks volumes about your grasp of biology - or lack thereof.
    DNA isn't a blueprint, it's a set of suggestions. Nothing more.

    "What you think and what you feel are a different than what you are."

    And only if you think society needs to treat people differently based on their biology does that matter. So your argument is either utterly void or just confirmation that you're a bigot.

    "I'm still confused about "cis gender"."

    Not our fault you don't know how to STEM. "Cis" causes no confusion in anyone who knows basic high school science - or who knows how to google.

    "I mean, in Texas, that we usually do. Where are ya'll from? Another planet?"

    I was going to be nice and NOT point out that outing yourself as a village yokel from the ass-end of a nation about to slip into third world status might not be the brightest of ideas, Baghdad Bob, but you do you.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:39am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Read the Bible, that might help you."

    Which one? The political hack job the papacy cobbled together in the 15th century out of the most politically expedient old texts they could piece together from roman annals, fragments of decaying aramaic script, old greek gossip writs and whatever they could steal from persian zoroastrianism?

    Or the bad and woefully amended translation thereof called the King James Bible?

    "I'm not bigoted"

    Says the guy who just spent several posts demonstrating that scorn and laughter is all he has to spare for those who are different.

    Not just ignorant of science, also doesn't know english, apparently.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62. icon
    fairuse (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 2:17am

    Re:

    A stack of bills using Clayton Act as s way to force -- SEC. 4. BUREAU OF DIGITAL MARKETS.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 4:27am

    For over the last decade American media has quickly slid to the American “left”.

    The right wing side of American politics/media has slid into the acceptance and even propagation of lies and mistruths and conspiracy theorist thinking as modern American conservatism breathes its dying breaths. Right-wing politicians and pundits and “reporters” flatter the prejudices of their intended audience because feelings-before-facts thinking gets better ratings than facts-before-feelings reporting. This approach leads to people not giving a damn about facts, not even bothering to provide evidence of their claims because the claim “feels right”, and…well, basically, it leads to the Big Lie–fueled insurrection of the 6th of January.

    If you want to blame something or someone for the “leftward” shift in American media — the shift towards checking facts, towards challenging those in power instead of appeasing them, towards treating queer people like people instead of disease-carrying vermin or freaks of nature to be gawked at — you can lay the blame at the feet of modern American conservatism and right-wing media. Nobody would have (much of) an issue with Fox News if it didn’t knowingly embrace the role of the propaganda arm for the GOP and Donald Trump at the expense of its integrity as a(n alleged) news organization. I mean, at least a “leans right” centrist version of Fox News that actually tried to be a serious journalistic outfit wouldn’t employ a bigot like Tucker Carlson.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2021 @ 4:45am

    Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    In another thread you have admitted that what you want is the ability to shout at people who do not want to listen to you. Just because you are saying it politely does not change the fact that you are demanding the ability exercise the hecklers veto to silence those you oppose.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 5:14am

    Re:

    In reality, his perception that the media has shifted "left" is because he gets virtually all his information from Breitbart and Rupert Murdoch and has been programmed to believe that anything else is controlled by Democrats (yes, he'd actually said he believes this).

    Meanwhile, the rest of the planet operates on the actual political spectrum, where virtually everyone on the American political "left" is centrist at best, and people he supports are outright fascists. He's unable to deal with the same reality as the rest of us, because when he ventures outside his echo chamber , he believes that documented reality is a liberal conspiracy to attack him.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:27am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    “ In reality, mistakes are made and honestly apologised for. ”
    Like the NYT, BB, Etc.

    “ Some places use it as a propaganda tactic to fool the weak minded into supporting positions they wouldn't normally support if they only saw the truth of the matter. ”
    Like WaPo, MSNBC, CNN, ABC etc.
    See: I agree with you.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67. icon
    Toom1275 (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:30am

    Re: Re:

    lostinlodos has quite handily proven the Network Propaganda book's claim that the Fox-Breitbart nexus builds a unique cultlike religious following that distrusts factual sources for no other reason than they were told to by the orthodoxy:

    [t]he consistent pattern that emerges from our data is that, both during the highly divisive election campaign and even more so during the first year of the Trump presidency, there is no left-right division, but rather a division between the right and the rest of the media ecosystem. The right wing of the media ecosystem behaves precisely as the echo-chamber models predict—exhibiting high insularity, susceptibility to information cascades, rumor and conspiracy theory, and drift toward more extreme versions of itself. The rest of the media ecosystem, however, operates as an interconnected network anchored by organizations, both for profit and nonprofit, that adhere to professional journalistic norms."

    The explanation for the anti-Clinton narratives' longevity in the news cycle, the data show, is the focus of the right-wing media ecology on the two focal media nodes of Fox News and Breitbart. At times during this period, Breitbart took the lead as an influencer from Fox News, which eventually responded by repositioning itself after Trump's nomination as a solid Trump booster.

    In contrast, left-wing media had no single outlet that defined orthodoxy for progressives. Instead, left-of-center outlets worked within the larger sphere of traditional media, and, because they were competing for the rest of the audience that had not committed itself to the Fox/Breitbart ecosystem, were constrained to adhere, mostly, to facts that were confirmable by traditional media institutions associated with the center-left (the New York Times and the Washington Post, say) as well as with the center-right (e.g., the Wall Street Journal). Basically, even if you were an agenda-driven left-oriented publication or online outlet, your dependence on reaching the mainstream for your audience meant that, you couldn't get away with just making stuff up, or with laundering far-left conspiracy theories from more marginal sources.

    Network Propaganda's data regarding the right-wing media ecosystem—that it's insular, prefers confirmation of identity and loyalty rather than self-correction, demonizes perceived opponents, and resists disconfirmation of its favored narratives—map well to social-science political-communication theorists Kathleen Hall Jamieson and Joseph Capella's 2008 book, Echo Chamber: Rush Limbaugh And The Rise Of Conservative Media. In that book, Jamieson and Capella outlined how, as they put it, "these conservative media create a self-protective enclave hospitable to conservative beliefs." As a consequence, they write:

    "[t]his safe haven reinforces conservative values and dispositions, holds Republican candidates and leaders accountable to conservative ideals, tightens their audience's ties to the Republican Party, and distances listeners, readers, and viewers from 'liberals," in general, and Democrats, in particular. It also enwraps them in a world in which facts supportive of Democratic claims are contested and those consistent with conservative ones championed."

    Believing that all fact-backed sources are leftist lies for no other reason than he gullibly swallows the right's pure projection uncritically.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:37am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Fall River Was founded and set up by a native born family.

    “ UPDATE: Consistent with our subsequent coverage of the California wildfires, this story has been updated to clarify that Jesus Fabian Gonzales is not suspected of the recent Sonoma County fires that killed 40 residents.

    The U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE) issued a detainer request on the Sonoma County Jail for Jesus Fabian Gonzalez, who was arrested Sunday on suspicion of arson in Wine Country fires.”
    Posted shortly after the press release from the SD.

    “ The "establishment media ignored" President Donald Trump’s Fourth of July event.”
    Dedicated coverage time, factually correct

    Nice try, you got two factual stories and an error that was quickly corrected. Correct at the HEAD OF THE STORY! Not buried elsewhere.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I would actually suggest the source documents of the New Testament and pre editorial Old Testament. Such as the Complete Dead Sea Scrolls And NHLI, ed. 9 with Apx of the Aramaic fragments. The latter addition to it showing the Christian source of the Koran. Along with the various oils and new testament writings that never made it into most tomes. Such as the writings of the Jewish Mystics who deeply appealed to the Gnostic movement.

    Intriguing collection for anyone actually interested in development of the religious stories if multiple beliefs. How they were combined to become a single tract.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don’t think stile is accurate. As much as co-opt.
    Somewhere like the old Microsoft adage: embrace, extend, extinguish

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:56am

    Re:

    Carlson is a commentator. He’s in the same class of showmanship as Maddow.

    I’m not a fan of his in general, though he can be funny at times.
    It’s not my fault some people take him completely seriously. The same level of (lack of) intelligence is required to accept RM as honest reporting!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 12:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    In the physical world you can legally do so. Stand outside.
    That what protestors do. Use public property to protest an action or decision, to publicly display a thought, etc.
    Or are you also against BLM walking through the streets after midnight with a bullhorn yelling wake up?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 12:08pm

    Re: Re:

    “All”
    Some.
    Of the multiple printings I read each day, currently, only 3 out of 16 are either BB or Murdoch.
    Another is the NYT. The rest are non-political.

    Most people who live in the US do so as a choice. Why do so many try to come here? Legally or not?
    Many of us don’t want to be like the “rest of the world”.

    “ conspiracy”, no. Just unappealing.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 12:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    I love the way that the response to me telling you about how you're being manipulated and ignoring the actual point is to repeat the propaganda I was telling you about.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2021 @ 12:58pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Given the reasons why BLM marches, I would donate them a bigger bullhorn.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:00pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    "Of the multiple printings I read each day, currently, only 3 out of 16 are either BB or Murdoch."

    Which is strange, since when I challenged you to name the sources you get you information from you listed 60% Murdoch rags, Breitbart and the NTY, which you then said you don't believe a word they print so that doesn't really count. Sure, you listed a bunch of niche publications, but in terms of your national and international news sources, you stated you stick to the places that are confirmed to push the laughable fictions you keep repeating here

    "Most people who live in the US do so as a choice"

    Some don't. There's a reason why US backpackers in Europe and Asia often pretend to be Canadian.

    "Why do so many try to come here?"

    Some of it's brain drain related to Silicon Valley and other places where you're the place to go because it's a way to start a lucrative career if you're educated enough (or white enough to get away with overstaying visas). Some because you bombed and destabilised their homelands to the point where they'll die if they stayed where they are and you're the nearest place where they won't be killed on sight. There's a wide variety of reasons between.

    "Many of us don’t want to be like the “rest of the world”."

    You might like it more if Murdoch wasn't lying to you about it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:02pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    "In the physical world you can legally do so."

    Unless you're trying to protest black people dying when Trump wants to do a fake photoshoot with a bible he's never read, then the tear gas comes out. Insurrection attempts are fine, though.

    "Or are you also against BLM walking through the streets after midnight with a bullhorn yelling wake up?"

    Does he live where that's happening, or does he maybe feel that temporary discomfort is worth saving some innocent lives?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:04pm

    Re: Re:

    "Carlson is a commentator. He’s in the same class of showmanship as Maddow."

    Again, the interesting trend with you people. You can't defend the despicable hatred of the people you align with politically, you can only go "what about....". Meanwhile Carlson's lawyers are quoted in court as saying that no reasonable person would ever take him seriously, yet I've never seen Maddow in a situation where she wasn't armed with facts in her defence. Maybe you have a citation to back yourself up for once?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Religious stories are great as parables, moral lessons or fables. It's when people decide that not only are they the unvarnished truth, but they override everyone else's interpretations, that we get into trouble.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Another point, I have not heard a lot of noise from BLM aligned people about being thrown of of the big social media sites, while that is a complaint made by the far right. It wouldn't by any chance indicate the difference between fighting for human right, and fighting to enslave or eliminate some groups of humans, would it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:48pm

    Carlson is a commentator.

    He’s also a racist asshole. But I guess you can overlook that because he makes you go ha-ha-ha every once in a while, huh.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:52pm

    In the physical world you can legally do so.

    And yet, when it comes to cyberspace, you’re on the side of the people who want compelled hosting of speech — regardless of whether you like that fact. You defend their opposition to 230, you defend the idea that Twitter should be forced to host speech, you defend the idea of “moderation is censorship” no matter how much that idea might come back to bite you on the ass. Their side is your side, and your side doesn’t seem to care who gets silenced so long as your side gets to yell as loud as they want on any platform they want without consequences.

    And if you think I’m exaggerating or lying, remember: You voted for Donald Trump.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    That’s just it. It’s not propaganda any more than any other news source.
    The difference being my choices all correct mistakes when they happen. Often quite boldly, not hidden away.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 1:55pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    So it’s ohkay then to be disruptive as long as you agree. But not if you don’t?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 2:16pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Along with Fox, NYT, And BB,
    I get Decrypt, Tech Dirt, MacWorld, 9to5Mac, DreadCentral, GoreZone, OperatingSystemDaily, Ring Side News, Smilezilla, tFreak, The Daily WTF, T-Spot, Tom’s.

    I also get Ars long form articles once a week. And NYP headlines but rarely actually read them: there’s something wrong with their feed settings. I get a hard copy NYT on Sunday and Wednesday. And the WSJ on Monday. Japan Times Sunday on Monday.

    And a few other monthly, like Command Q and Linux Magazine. Horror Hound. Freedom From Religion Foundation’s monthly physical.
    I occasionally listen to the CSPAN radio shows. Which are apolitical by host. And my local WGN all-day-news. Which is majority local.

    That’s hardly a bubble.
    Given the 3 primary print sources, despite leanings, NYT, BB, and WSJ all tend to be factual and correct error quickly, I don’t see a problem with having 3 opinions.

    Especially 3 very differing opinions.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 2:28pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Oh your funny in your bubble. There was no tear gas. The protestors were being moved out before any discussion on trump walking to the church the protestors assaulted and burned the day before.

    “ You can't defend the despicable hatred of the people you align with politically”
    I don’t align with him. I never did. It’s you who can’t separate agreeing with specific points and agreeing with the entirety.
    Your all or nothing A/B view is the reason people like yourself can’t understand how people like Obama and Trump, Generally outsiders, get elected. Be it the AON Dems or the AON Republicans.

    The difference between Obama and Trump in how they handled their carriers was Obama eventually became a partisan player and Trump didn’t.
    The world is not binary. Especially politics.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 2:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The number who still do that is diminishing every day. Part of why I point to the older writings.
    The mystic writings of the Jewish schism, period of 150bce-150ce, are a prime source library for the multiple apocalyptic history tomes.
    One of which, Revolution of John, made it into the Bible.

    To call the bible a guide for morals; wtf. We have god supporting genocide, infanticide, homicide, slavery, rape?
    Beyond that we have the Judges (lawmakers/courts) holding people responsible for the actions of others, killing unborn children because the mother was “unclean”, (how’s that anti-abortion cause holding up), mandating slavery, and justifying forced incest!

    Morality in the Old Testament is non-existing. In the Nee Testament it only applies to when the leaders want it to.
    Hardly A guide to life.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 2:55pm

    There was no tear gas.

    Yes, there was.

    The protestors were being moved out before any discussion on trump walking to the church

    So the timing of Trump walking to a church he’d never been to before and holding up a book he’d never read before for the sake of a photo-op was purely coincidental to the timing of the crowd being moved back, huh?

    I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don’t trust in coincidences.

    the church the protestors assaulted and burned the day before

    [citation needed]

    I don’t align with him. I never did. It’s you who can’t separate agreeing with specific points and agreeing with the entirety.

    If you donate to/vote for a Republican known for anti-queer bigotry and pro-racist leanings only because you agree with them on economic issues, it doesn’t matter if you disagree with their other bullshit. You’re still trying to put them in a position of power where they can act on that other bullshit and harm marginalized people. You can say “well I didn’t give them money and vote for them to do that”, but you still gave them money and voted for them regardless. At that point, you have to take responsibility for the fact that you tried (regardless of the success of that effort) to put a bigot into a position where they could turn their bigotry into the rule of law.

    (Me? I don’t have to worry about that specific variant of this problem because I don’t vote for Republicans.)

    The difference between Obama and Trump in how they handled their carriers was Obama eventually became a partisan player and Trump didn’t.

    For once, you’re right — Trump didn’t become a partisan player. He was a partisan player from the get-go. Obama had to become a partisan player because Mitch McConnell, in his unnerving zeal to stop the first Black POTUS from being anything close to successful, prevented anything Obama wanted to push through Congress from getting through.

    You love to bitch about partisanship, Lodos. Funny, then, how you also seem almost ecstatic to support the political party that is all about partisanship at all costs — including government shutdowns and a refusal to investigate an insurrection against American democracy (that was carried out in the name of the guy you voted for).

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  89. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2021 @ 3:03pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Wrong, it is not OK to support bigots and racists, as their end goal is a society where they divide society into superior and inferior people, and almost all the noise about censorship, and that they should be allowed on the big social media platforms comes from racists and bigots.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 4:35pm

    Re:

    It was CN gas, not CS.
    It was deployed by local police before the visit by the President was discussed

    “citation needed]”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/fire-set-at-historic-st-johns-church-during-prote sts-of-george-floyds-death/2020/06/01/4b5c4004-a3b6-11ea-b619-3f9133bbb482_story.html

    “If you donate to/vote for a Republican known for …”
    I didn’t vote for Tucker Carlson nor donate to him.

    ~Career
    “He was a partisan player from the get-go.”
    Not remotely. The majority of the seated Republicans when he came in were never-Trump.
    He engaged with everyone.

    “including government shutdowns “
    That’s what happens when people don’t negotiate. How many times did this happen under Obama, bush, Clinton,…?
    That’s not something Trump created. It’s been an aspect of the federal government for quite some time.

    “investigate an insurrection against American democracy (that was carried out in the name of the guy you voted for).”
    A) a violent uprising against the authority. Didn’t happen. They we’re not armed and not violent.
    Far less so than Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Minneapolis, DC, etc.
    They did far less than than any of the BLM riots. By choice.
    B) Trump did not once call for violence. Not once for insurrection. He spent his term condemning all violence.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 17 Jun 2021 @ 5:07pm

    Re:ality don’t care about your revisions

    If your argument hinges on the technical definition of CN vs CS tear gas it’s pretty much obvious to everyone your garbage argument has run out of gas.

    Or keep going I like watching a self inflicted rain wreck.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 6:19pm

    It was CN gas, not CS.

    To-may-to, to-mah-to.

    It was deployed by local police before the visit by the President was discussed

    Again: I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don’t trust in coincidences.

    [WaPo link]

    I stand corrected, thank you for the citation.

    I didn’t vote for Tucker Carlson nor donate to him.

    By your own admission, you voted for Donald Trump. I rest my case.

    The majority of the seated Republicans when he came in were never-Trump.

    Yet they voted in line with him anyway because of partisan politics. And Trump rarely tried to negotiate or compromise in good faith with Democrats — any time he didn’t get exactly what he wanted from them, out came the preschool playground insults aimed only at Democrats. (Sure, he aimed a few at Republicans, but he saved his greatest ire for Democrats because “own the libs at any cost” was and currently still is the GOP mantra.)

    That’s what happens when people don’t negotiate. How many times did this happen under Obama, bush, Clinton,…?

    Two shutdowns happened under the presidency of Bill Clinton. Both shutdowns were related to his veto of Republican-penned appropriations bills, which he vetoed because of objections to funding cuts that would’ve affected education, the environment, and public health. The shutdowns lasted a total of 26 days between the 14th of November 1995 and the 6th of January 1996.

    One shutdown happened under the presidency of Barack Obama. This one occured as a result of a disagreement between the Republican-led House and the Democratic-led Senate towards the contents of the 2014 Continuing Appropriations Resolution bill — primarily, the funding for the 2013 Affordable Care Act. The shutdown lasted 16 days.

    In the Obama and Clinton shutdowns, blame fell largely on the GOP.

    No shutdowns happened under the presidency of George W. Bush.

    That’s not something Trump created.

    He wasn’t able to stop it from happening twice under his watch, either — and the second one was the longest shutdown in U.S. history, to boot.

    a violent uprising against the authority.

    Yes, that’s what it was: a violent uprising against the legitimately elected President-elect and those tasked with the Constitutional duty of confirming the results of a free and fair election. What, did you think they were chanting “hang Mike Pence” for shits’n’giggles?

    Didn’t happen. They we’re not armed and not violent.

    You may want to rethink that assertion.

    I mean that.

    They did far less than than any of the BLM riots. By choice.

    That isn’t exactly an argument in your favor, seeing as how paramilitary white supremacist organizations like the Proud Boys were in attendance that day. You’re basically saying that they didn’t get “too violent” because they didn’t want to look like a bunch of…well, I think you can guess how the Proud Boys would end that sentence.

    Trump did not once call for violence. Not once for insurrection.

    The following are quotes from Donald Trump himself; they come from his speech on the 6th of January, just before the insurrection:

    Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with: We will stop the steal.

    We will not let them silence your voices. We're not going to let it happen, I'm not going to let it happen.

    We're gathered together in the heart of our nation's capital for one very, very basic and simple reason: To save our democracy.

    You're stronger, you're smarter, you've got more going than anybody. And they try and demean everybody having to do with us. And you're the real people, you're the people that built this nation. You're not the people that tore down our nation.

    Republicans are, Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It's like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we're going to have to fight much harder.

    [Y]ou'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

    We will not be intimidated into accepting the hoaxes and the lies that we've been forced to believe.

    You will have an illegitimate president. That's what you'll have. And we can't let that happen.

    The radical left knows exactly what they're doing. They're ruthless and it's time that somebody did something about it.

    The Republicans have to get tougher. You're not going to have a Republican Party if you don't get tougher. They want to play so straight. They want to play so, sir, yes, the United States. The Constitution doesn't allow me to send them back to the States. Well, I say, yes it does, because the Constitution says you have to protect our country and you have to protect our Constitution, and you can't vote on fraud. And fraud breaks up everything, doesn't it? When you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed to go by very different rules.

    We must stop the steal and then we must ensure that such outrageous election fraud never happens again, can never be allowed to happen again.

    The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

    Now, I’m sure you’re going to mention all the times he brought up marching peacefully and whatnot. Don’t bother; I’ve skimmed enough of the transcript to know those parts exist. Instead, I want you to read each of those quotes, and notice some of the verbs/verbal phrases he uses: “stop”, “save”, “fight”, “take back”, “get tougher”, “show strength”, “protect”. Then look at the overall gist of those quotes: “we’re fighting to stop the steal”, “we have to get tougher on the fraudsters”, “we’re here to save democracy”, “we need to do something about this”.

    He isn’t explicitly calling for violence, no. But between his planting the idea that his “patriots” must stop the steal by showing strength and doing “something” about the Democrats/“weak Republicans” to save the country, his talking for months about how the election would be fraudulent only if he lost, and his continual(ly rebuked) efforts to overturn an election he lost both electorally and popularly, those quotes — his words — become a form of his mob boss–esque stochastic terrorism. He didn’t need to directly call for violence; all he needed to do is make his wishes known and let his followers do the rest.

    Take a bunch of people who have already been manipulated by right-wing media and Donald Trump into believing the election would be/was stolen. Tell them that the literal last line of defense against the stolen election is a Vice President who has already sworn himself to the duty of his office (i.e., to confirm Joe Biden as the President-elect). Gin them up further by referring to them as true patriots, telling them to toughen up and show strength, and implying that they alone can save American democracy itself. What do you get as a result of all that?

    You get an insurrection.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 6:20pm

    Re: Re:ality don’t care about your revisions

    One is a civilian crowd control option. One is a military option.

    Neither the military nor Trump had any involvement In it regardless.

    Granted average people don’t understand the difference, but if you’re going to report on a gas being used, be accurate. Tear gas is a weaponised control device.
    And saying tear gas spreads fear throughout the uninformed circles.

    What was used was a mild irritant less powerful than (most of) the key chain sprays sold at the corner store.
    Then again they couldn’t get the facts right about who used gas so I can’t really expect them to figure out what was used.

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  94. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 6:35pm

    One is a civilian crowd control option. One is a military option.

    It’s still tear gas either way. Your pedantry isn’t making your point any stronger.

    Tear gas is a weaponised control device.

    And what do you think they were trying to do with the protestors — help them throw a rave?

    What was used was a mild irritant less powerful than (most of) the key chain sprays sold at the corner store.

    Again: It’s still tear gas.

    Get a better argument.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  95. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 10:08pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    I've not heard of any specific examples, which is interesting since you'd think that the people whining about being kicked off for homophobic abuse, white supremacist behaviour or spreading fatally dangerous misinformation about the pandemic would latch on to examples that the "left" would rally behind. Maybe their racism outweighs their opposition to social media.

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  96. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 10:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    " There was no tear gas."

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867532070/trumps-unannounced-church-visit-angers-church-of ficials

    https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-ap-top-news-dc-wire-religion-politics-15be4e293cdebe 72c10304fe0ec668e4

    I'm sure you'll provide examples of fiction writers stating that it didn't really happen, but I'll be interested to see if you stumbled across any reliable sources in your usual escape from reality that I can verify in some way.

    "I don’t align with him. I never did."

    You've stated that you voted for him, which obviously means that you aligned with him.

    "The world is not binary. Especially politics."

    Yet, your view is so binary that you believe that anyone who doesn't follow Murdoch's lead is paid by the Democrats...

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  97. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 10:15pm

    Re: Re:

    LOL... he used a different type of gas to attack protestors, so the opposition to him gassing protestors doesn't matter? Fascists really are funny when they're flailing pathetically and don't have real power. Long may that continue.

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  98. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 10:19pm

    Re: Re: Re:ality don’t care about your revisions

    "Tear gas is a weaponised control device."

    Yes, which is why people are opposed to it being used to disperse peaceful protesters in order for a pathetically staged photo op. Weird how the same thing wasn't used against violent protestors breaking into the Capitol with the stated intent of murdering their political opponents and blocking democracy, although that would have been way more justified.

    "they couldn’t get the facts right about who used gas"

    Weird, you're nitpicking about the type of gas, nobody's question which stasi members were using it. Are you claiming that someone else used it now?

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  99. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:02pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Trump had nothing to do with the use of riot control canisters. It was the police.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  100. icon
    PaulT (profile), 17 Jun 2021 @ 11:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    He had everything to do with the pathetic photo op that the police was clearing the way for.

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  101. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 1:51am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Intriguing collection for anyone actually interested in development of the religious stories if multiple beliefs. How they were combined to become a single tract."

    Well, they were carefully vetted by the priestly scholars tasked to collate the definitive Word Of God. The main criteria appears to have been "And don't put anything in it which will allow the peasantry to challenge the current order".

    I am constantly amazed that there is a world faith assembled under the equivalent of a 15th-century propaganda pamphlet.

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  102. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 3:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Morality in the Old Testament is non-existing. In the Nee Testament it only applies to when the leaders want it to. Hardly A guide to life."

    Ethics in the old testament are nonexisting. Morality is subjective. It might have made sense a few thousand years ago when they'd barely gotten around to categorizing under what circumstances a member of the tribe would be allowed to brain another member of the tribe for their herd of livestock.

    "To call the bible a guide for morals; wtf. We have god supporting genocide, infanticide, homicide, slavery, rape?"

    And incest, looking at Lot. The full set of "dont's".
    It's a sad fact where religion is concerned that if you're taught from childhood to disbelieve the evidence of your own eyes you end up adult for whom compartmentalization is a natural state.

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  103. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 4:32am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "That’s hardly a bubble. "

    It's pretty clear from your discourse around here that what you do is to go with Fox and Breitbart, then filter everything else you read from the skew provided by the first two sources.

    You'd get a better impartial view from international media, even al-jazeera or CGTN, whose viewpoint on US internal affairs are usually painstakingly accurate except when it directly concerns their topics of interest.

    Decidedly so if your takeaway is that the US media has turned "leftist" when the reality is that it only looks that way because the Overton window has been shifted so far to the right that these days eisenhower and even reagan would be considered centrist-right democrats.

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  104. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 4:33am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    "In the physical world you can legally do so. Stand outside. "

    Sure. and people who don't want to listen can walk away. And if you're shouting loudly enough to disrupt private spaces, you can be told to lower your voice.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  105. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 4:38am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Trump had nothing to do with the use of riot control canisters. It was the police."

    Heydrich didn't, by that same argument, have anything to do with Auschwitz and Eisenhower, by the same logic, nothing to do with Operation Overlord.

    Trump decided he wanted a photo op and had the streets cleared to obtain that photo op. Whether he gave the order to directly have the protestors cleared out or just turned to the side and said "Will no one rid me of these troublesome people...?" is beside the point when he was the guy in charge.

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  106. icon
    PaulT (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 5:16am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Along with Fox, NYT, And BB,
    I get Decrypt, Tech Dirt, MacWorld, 9to5Mac, DreadCentral, GoreZone, OperatingSystemDaily, Ring Side News, Smilezilla, tFreak, The Daily WTF, T-Spot, Tom’s."

    So, you get your general news from the Murdoch/Breitbart echo chamber, then subscribe to a bunch of blogs based on niche subjects that interest you. That doesn't really support your point, given that you've already stated that you don't look at any source outside the US for any perspective and you've rejected other sources as being Democrat agents.

    You claim to not be in a bubble, but then claim that part of the the reason you're not is because you read a wrestling blog. I suppose that when you're firmly entrenched in Murdoch land, the WWE plotlines might seem realistic, but that's not something that most people would agree with.

    " I don’t see a problem with having 3 opinions"

    What's laughable is that you've already stated that you reject pretty much everything in the NYT out of hand because they're "alt left", and you think that Breitbart and Murdoch are interested in actual journalism. You're not getting "3 different opinion", you've picked sites that confirm your biases and a single random source that you can claim is opposed to them despite you rejecting every idea they have before you've read them.

    You'd be more convincing if, when you decide to opine on any particular subject, you didn't parrot right-wing talking points and outright fictionalised versions of events ranging from the hot coffee issue to the insurrection. You claim to be impartial, but your takes on most important subjects tell us otherwise.

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  107. identicon
    Rocky, 18 Jun 2021 @ 5:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Fall River Was founded and set up by a native born family.

    There's a difference between founding and building. Fall River as it stands today was largely built by immigrants, not its founders. Just like how John Stevens is considered to be the founder of the American railroads, but he obviously didn't build them.

    UPDATE: Consistent with our subsequent coverage of the California wildfires, this story has been updated to clarify that Jesus Fabian Gonzales is not suspected of the recent Sonoma County fires that killed 40 residents.

    Agreed, but the interesting thing was that many who took that breitbart-article and ran with it have deleted their coverage. No corrections, just straight up removals.

    Dedicated coverage time, factually correct

    If you ignore something, you ignore it. You don't coverage at all, nada, zip, zilch. Now tell me if the "establishment media" didn't write or say one word about it?

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  108. icon
    PaulT (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 5:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "You'd get a better impartial view from international media"

    Or at least a mixture of different sources. Bear in mind that this is a guy who thinks that Fox of all places is centrist, and that before I pointed it out to him he though that he had a wide range of input because he read the WSJ, NYP and watched local Fox (I had to point out to him that those are all Murdoch properties).

    It's like talking to someone in the UK who thinks they have a range of views because they read The Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express, then gets angry when you point out that they're all right-wing shitrags with a track record of lying to their readers.

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  109. icon
    PaulT (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 5:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Bear in mind that in this conversation about a peaceful crowd being dispersed with tear gas to clear the way for a photo op, his main complaint is about the use of the word "tear", not the "peaceful crowd being dispersed with gas to make way for a photo op" part.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  110. icon
    PaulT (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 5:32am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Ethics in the old testament are nonexisting. Morality is subjective."

    Most of both testaments are find when taken as allegory, cautionary tales and so on. The problem in the modern evangelical sense is that not only do some people take them literally, they'll cherry pick according to the argument. They'll use Noah and Genesis to explain why evolution can't be real, but run away when you ask them to defend their god killing most of the planet when people annoyed him or why God forbade the tree of knowledge. They'll dive straight into Leviticus when attacking gay marriage, but run away when you point out the less savoury things in the other verses in that book. They'll claim to follow Jesus, but always seem to ignore his lessons about treating foreigners and neighbours in certain ways, and the message within him ejecting moneychangers from the temple.

    "It's a sad fact where religion is concerned that if you're taught from childhood to disbelieve the evidence of your own eyes you end up adult for whom compartmentalization is a natural state."

    The good thing is that evangelical type religions seem to be on the downturn. The bad news is that those people start following Trump and Q instead.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  111. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 6:10am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "his main complaint is about the use of the word "tear", not the "peaceful crowd being dispersed with gas to make way for a photo op" part."

    That is indeed the truly revealing part about where he's coming from; the way he comes out in the defense of a US president on a topic which concerns a peaceful demonstration being broken up by violent police in at all.

    Strictly speaking the breach of all western convention here should be the way the highest office holder decided to spontaneously take a walk and needed armed thugs to clear the city first. Previous presidents either just reinforce their security detail or carefully fence off the decided venue beforehand. But Trump needed a show of force.

    And in the end that's what being defended here. The "Strong" man.
    As clownishly emulated by Cadet Man-Child Bonespur.

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  112. icon
    Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 6:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    "There was no tear gas."

    And you claim to take in "sources" other than Breitbart and Fox? Weird how even white house sources don't dispute the use of tear gas but you keep parroting Carlson Tucker.

    Even the attorney representing the D.C. Metropolitan police admitted - in public - that the police used tear gas at Lafayette square.

    I think that when the lawyer for the accused party confesses to an act, in the US especially, that generally means that what is confessed to is considered a fact beyond any dispute. Except if you're a GOP bullhorn willing to exculpate Trump by denying factual reality. Like, for instance, Breitbart and Fox.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  113. icon
    PaulT (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 6:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It’s quite simple

    Again, let's say he's right and Murdoch and Brietbart accidentally told the truth for once. That doesn't excuse the actual issue at hand, it just means that the tactics were slightly less likely to result in serious injury.

    It's like watching someone defend a guy accused of killing people with a bladed weapon and objecting to the use of the word "machete", when they actually used a meat cleaver. Sure, you might be technically correct, but you're probably focussing on the wrong issue.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  114. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 11:25am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Trump had nothing to do with the use of riot control canisters. It was the police.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  115. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 11:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Part of what makes the Dead Sea Scrolls interesting, to those who read the full library and not just the compilation translations, is the non-theological documents.
    The temple scroll, the rules scroll, etc.
    You can see how the Christian leaders modified localised Jewish law.
    Later documents like the Arabian recovery, which also shows how Christians used localised law and beliefs to create the Koran via an easily deciphered combined language; Arabic was an earlier attempt at the same target as Esperanto.

    Reading the recovered books and poems of religious beliefs is much like reading the reconstruction of the lost Homeric works.
    It makes the story both more complete and far more fantastic from Christos making clay and sand birds fly on the sabbath, to spiting his teacher (A source for the scene in the Omen II of Damion vs the teacher), to killing those in the town.

    You can also clearly see why a governing body looking for power and control would chose to ignore some of those texts. We can be propping up a man who chose to slay the townspeople for spiting him.
    “And those who called him sorcerer, He looked at them, and they fell”

    A passage that has very close variants in the Life of Jesus, Gospel of Mary, works of the Christ, —>
    The bible in most of the current forms already has irreconcilable errors on dates, generations, lineages, quantity…
    It already is impossible to logically consider it accurate. Add the far more entertaining sources and expunged doctrine and you get a fare more enjoyable fable.

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  116. icon
    PaulT (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 12:02pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So where exactly does the chain of command defending the Capitol end, in your opinion? I'm just asking so that in the non-zero chance that another insurrection attempt from you people has to be put down we know how far away from the decision to use force to stop you is from the president. We wouldn't want to accidentally run into double standards where you pretend Trump has nothing to do with the violence under his administration while Biden was supposedly micromanaging it, after all

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  117. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 12:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    “ the WWE plotlines might seem realistic”
    Actually I prefer Big Japan, more variety. Plus death matches. Always liked CZW for that reason. And who could forget ECW.
    Its just a physical version of the Young and the Restless, with more violence.

    you've already stated that you reject pretty much everything in the NYT out of hand because they're "alt left",
    I didn’t call NYT specifically, alt left.
    I’ve constantly praised them for correcting errors.
    I called WaPo, the Atlantic, Mother Jones, the Progressive, alt left.

    “ Agreed, but the interesting thing was that many who took that breitbart-article and ran with it have deleted their coverage. No corrections, just straight up removals.”
    And that’s the same reason I tend to not read anything further right than that. Note left of the NYT.
    At least I can trust those three sources to correct mistakes. Quickly.

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  118. icon
    Toom1275 (profile), 18 Jun 2021 @ 8:58pm

    Re:

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  119. icon
    PaulT (profile), 19 Jun 2021 @ 1:13am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Actually I prefer Big Japan, more variety."

    I don't really care which form of scripted entertainment you favour, I was just commenting on the fact that including a bunch of entertainment and tech blogs in your reading list doesn't support the idea that you're not getting your actual news from a bubble.

    "I didn’t call NYT specifically, alt left"

    You know that I can search and quote what you've actually said, right?

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210425/11430846679/florida-governor-signs-law-that-punish es-protesters-protesting-denies-them-bail.shtml#c1194

    "NYT is alt left"

    "I called WaPo, the Atlantic, Mother Jones, the Progressive, alt left."

    Yes, you throw around the meaningless term that was invented as a "no you!" retort when people started to realise that the "alt right" term coined by Richard Spencer was a deliberate attempt to rebrand white supremacism and neo-Naziism into something more palatable in general conversation. It doesn't have any other meaning other than a way to try using labels to attack people instead of their actual words and actions.

    "And that’s the same reason I tend to not read anything further right than that."

    Also very little to the left of it either, though I'm not sure what's further right unless you're going to venture into Stormfront territory.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  120. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 19 Jun 2021 @ 9:23am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ah, ok. A missing word (my fault). “Moved” should be befor “alt”. I’d forgotten I made a mistype there. Since (almost?) every other post I praise them for being quick to fix errors.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  121. icon
    PaulT (profile), 19 Jun 2021 @ 2:07pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    OK, so I suggest you be a little more exact with your wording, as I can only react to the things you actually said, not the things you will later retroactively decide you meant after being called out on it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  122. icon
    Lostinlodos (profile), 19 Jun 2021 @ 3:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Yep, can’t edit posts and then forgot about it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  123. icon
    PaulT (profile), 20 Jun 2021 @ 12:14am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Well, again, if you've not corrected yourself then I can only go on what you actually said.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  124. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 20 Jun 2021 @ 6:13am

    Re:

    But then some will complain that you placed them on the left, and others about being placed on the right.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  125. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2021 @ 6:24pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Not the original poster you were replying to.

    Most of those are conditions usually labeled intersex conditions. ("Inter-" a prefix literally meaning “between”) As in in-between the two biological sexes. No matter how many semantical games are used, it doesn't change scientific reality.

    Wait, so any exception, no matter how rare (and all the disorders and defects you are talking about combined, are very extremely rare. <1%) invalidates the rules now? No exception! So humans are not in fact naturally able to see, hear, walk and pretty much anything else. What about two arms and legs? Because exceptions like those happens all the time! Under this argument, they couldn't be classified as abnormal or exceptions to the rules, but instead part of some new nonsensical description of the basic abilities and nature of humans. That's where fallacious "logical reasoning" like this leads. Ideology has no place defining or redefining scientific facts.

    It's the pretty much the height of irony to hear someone defending these kinds of purely ideological beliefs with accusations of "ignorance."

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  126. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2021 @ 6:45pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Do you have any scientific arguments for there being more than two biological sexes? If so...What are their scientific basis and definitions, defined by whom, how and when? How do they fit into the basic biological human reproductive cycle and strategy? (you know, the whole reason for, and basis of, biological sex) How do they relate to the nature of human sexual dimorphism? What are the biological evolutionary advantages (and disadvantages for that matter) of having a third biological sex?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  127. icon
    PaulT (profile), 28 Jun 2021 @ 11:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You know, you seem very insistent and concerned for someone replying to a post where the answer to the first few questions is linked to already in that very post. Is there something you need us to help with?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  128. icon
    PaulT (profile), 28 Jun 2021 @ 11:27pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Wait, so any exception, no matter how rare (and all the disorders and defects you are talking about combined, are very extremely rare. <1%) invalidates the rules now?"

    The "exception that proves the rule" doesn't work in science. Einstein chose to ignore the quantum realm while he was fixing the known problems with Newton's physics, but that didn't mean they didn't exist, just as the known problems with Newton still existed while people chose to ignore the places that were unknown before relativity was suggested.

    I don't care how uncomfortable or unusual certain people are to you, they still exist, and should be treated accordingly. If they didn't choose their physical form, they should not be punished for it.

    "It's the pretty much the height of irony to hear someone defending these kinds of purely ideological beliefs with accusations of "ignorance.""

    Prove to me that nobody outside of the standard gender norms exists and that nobody outside of the standard XX/XY structure exists. Until then, I will defend those people against abuse from people like you

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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