Federal Court: No, You Fucking May Not Force Your Way Into A Home And Strip Search Six Very Young Children

from the fire-them-(out-of-a-cannon)-[into-the-sun] dept

The facts of this case are pretty ugly so let's just dive right into them. As Lenore Skenazy reported for Reason last year, two government employees decided a single incident of a mother leaving her kids in the car was all the reason they needed to swing by the house and strip-search every one of her six children. The oldest was five years old. The youngest were a pair of 10-month-old twins.

Holly Curry stopped at a shop to get some muffins and left her six children in the car while she ran in to get them. She was gone for less than 10 minutes. It was only 67 degrees outside. When she came back to her car, two police officers told her she shouldn't leave her kids in the car and wrote up a "JC3 form" -- a hotline-type alert that would be forwarded to Kentucky's Child Protective Services.

The next day a CPS investigator showed up. So did a sheriff's deputy. Here's what happened next:

The investigator insisted on taking the youngest child from Curry's lap and, without permission, began to undress her. In the presence of the male deputy, the investigator proceeded to undress each child, male and female, down to the genitals (removing the diapers of the two youngest). Curry tried to object, but she knew she was powerless to stop the investigator from doing full-body inspections.

The last to be undressed was her 4-year-old son, taught by his pediatrician that he should never let a stranger take his clothes off without his mom's okay. But when the boy tried to make eye contact with Curry, the investigator stood directly in his line of sight, leaving him helpless. Then the investigator pointed to the deputy and said, "Show that cop your muscles!" The little boy removed his shirt and flexed his biceps as ordered. The investigator and deputy began laughing while the investigator started to pull down his pants. When the little boy finally was able to look back at his mother, she was holding back tears. The little boy's face registered shame and fear.

Two weeks after this strip search and questioning, the CPS investigation was closed as "unsubstantiated." Holly sued. And she has won. Qualified immunity has been denied to the CPS worker and deputy for their warrant entry and multiple strip searches.

The story is even worse than the earlier summation by Skenazy. This is from the decision [PDF]. It shows the CPS worker (Jeanetta Childress) intimidating Holly into "consenting" to a warrantless entry by her and Deputy Michael Furnish.

Childress and Furnish drove back to the Currys’ house. This time, Furnish knocked on the door. He was armed and in uniform. Again, Holly answered. Childress and Furnish told her they “needed to come in.” Again, Holly asked if they had a warrant. And again — when Furnish replied that they did not — Holly refused to let them in.

Childress started yelling at Holly. Holly asked if they could reschedule the visit for when her husband was home. She also offered to bring the children to the door so Childress could see them. But Furnish and Childress would not agree to that. Instead, they both told her that if she didn’t let them in, they would get an emergency custody order. When Holly asked what this meant, Furnish told her, “We’ll come back and take all of your children.” Childress and Furnish both started yelling, “What’s it gonna be?” Holly started crying. She said, “Fine, we can do this.”

That led to even more officious bullshit.

Childress interviewed the two oldest children in a bedroom, separately, while Furnish waited in the hallway. Holly stayed with the rest of the children in another part of the house. At one point, Holly tried calling her husband, but Childress sat on her phone.

Then the social worker claimed she and the officer needed to check the kids for "injuries." Apparently, this involved inspecting the genitals of all six of Holly's children.

The court says the warrantless entry was illegal and no good faith or any other government excuse (like exigent circumstances) can save it. There were no exigent circumstances. The children were uninjured, accounted for, and in no apparent danger. Holly had no history with Child Protective Services that might demand a swift removal of her children. And both government workers knew they had nothing close to what they needed to obtain and execute an emergency custody order. Therefore, the entry was coerced. And in this circuit, this particular violation of rights has been clearly established for nearly a quarter-century.

In 1998, the Sixth Circuit held that an officer’s baseless threat to take a suspect’s child “constituted an objectively improper police action.” Thus, qualified immunity doesn’t shield either Childress or Furnish for entering the Currys’ home without a warrant.

The court says the same thing about the strip searches. Strip searches require probable cause and government employees better have a whole lot of it if they want to strip search minors. Neither person involved with these searches had anything resembling faint suspicion, much less probable cause.

Here, Childress lacked even a shadow of probable cause that the Currys physically abused their children. No one had ever reported physical abuse. There was no evidence of it. Nothing about their house indicated they lived in dangerous conditions. The children didn’t tell Childress anything that pointed to “a substantial chance” of physical abuse. In fact, the two oldest children told Childress that their parents didn’t even use corporal punishment. In Childress’s own words, Holly and her husband were “attentive and loving” parents.

This is so much of a violation the court doesn't even have to look for precedent.

If Childress did what the Currys allege, strip searching the children was clearly unconstitutional. Other Circuits have reached this conclusion in similar cases. Childress’s alleged actions were “so clearly” unconstitutional under Supreme Court precedent that we don’t need to find that “the very action[s] in question have previously been held unlawful” in this circuit. To hold otherwise would permit social workers to strip search children as a matter of course in every investigation.

Apparently this social worker believed the Sixth Circuit had already "held otherwise."

Incredibly, Childress repeatedly testified that she believed she should “automatically” strip search any child who was four or under.

Incredibly wrong.

The Constitution protects against that approach to children’s privacy, and no reasonable social worker could think otherwise.

The deputy may not have removed any of the children's clothing but he's still far from blameless. No qualified immunity for him either.

Had Furnish only witnessed the strip searches — rather than talk to the children during the search and encourage them to undress — he might be entitled to qualified immunity. The law is less clear about an officer’s liability when he is simply present while a social worker unreasonably strip searches a minor. But here, a jury could find that Furnish participated in the unconstitutional strip searches of the children. And as already stated, the law against those searches under these facts is so well-established that a reasonable officer would know that the searches here were unconstitutional.

The government will certainly waste taxpayers' money (and their patience) by appealing this decision. Few people enjoy being held accountable for their abusive actions but government employees tend to be the most resistant to personal responsibility. But for now, the decision stands and these two alleged public servants will have to continue being sued for threatening to take away someone kids before deciding a half-dozen strip-searched prepubescents was punishment enough for leaving kids locked safely in a car for 5-10 minutes on a cool day.

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Filed Under: 6th circuit, child protective services, holly curry, jeanetta childress, kentucky, michael furnish


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  1. icon
    zeiche (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 4:05am

    if the social worker and officer lose appeal, will the have to register as sex offenders?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2. identicon
    Cowardly Lion, 28 Aug 2020 @ 4:22am

    Re:

    Indeed. I hope neither of them have children.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3. identicon
    Glenn, 28 Aug 2020 @ 4:30am

    Hiring psycho pedophiles to work in child protective services was probably not a good idea.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4. identicon
    mcinsand, 28 Aug 2020 @ 4:32am

    registered sex offenders

    If these two don't have to register as sex offenders, then that's just one more thing wrong with our system.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 4:58am

    Childress thought that she should automatically strip-search these children? WTF!
    This brings up so many questions:

    1. How long has she worked at CPS?
    2. How many times has she done this before?
    3. What kind of education did she get, that not only didn't teach her basic and obvious things, but also seems to have removed common sense?
    4. How did she get from "The parents seems nice and like good parents" to "better check these kids genitals" and "We need to threaten these people"?

    Any logic was thrown out the window here... there is simply no scenario I can come up with (even directly malicious), where this makes sense to do it like this and think that they can get away with it.
    In a hypothetical scenario where there had been signs of abuse, care should have been taken to do things right in every possible way to make sure the right actions could be taken and to spare the children the obvious humiliation, instead she would have chosen to add 2 people to the list of people who had abused these kids? WTF?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6. identicon
    Rocky, 28 Aug 2020 @ 5:37am

    The path to hell...

    Don't underestimate what reprehensible and illogical actions a do-gooder will do when they think they are right regardless of the evidence and what other people say or think.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7. identicon
    Michael D, 28 Aug 2020 @ 5:44am

    This may be tarring an entire field, but many years ago in college I was in a pre-social work program. . . until the first class of the first class. I was so appalled by the quality of my fellow students and the teacher that I immediately withdrew from the class and the program and found myself a different major and a different life. This was at a top university, not some backwater school. This incident exhibits exactly the type of co-student I was in class with, and why I quit. I guess the field hasn't changed much.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 5:46am

    "stupid is as stupid does"

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 5:50am

    I hope those muffins were worth it.
    Typical dumb young parent; leaving the kids in the car.
    Typical over zealous cops; jumping to the CPS level instead of giving a ticket or stern warning, and noting (adding to a database for future reference) this incident.
    Typical chester; strip searching kids for jollies.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 5:51am

    Re: The path to hell...

    Yeah, you can tell those who are having good done unto them by the haunted look in their eyes.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11. identicon
    Steve, 28 Aug 2020 @ 5:52am

    Re: The path to hell...

    This comment can't be more true.

    How many people were burned at the stake because someone though they were a witch.

    If someone thinks they're doing things for the right reasons, the end justifies the means, no matter abhorrent or reprehensible their actions are.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 6:33am

    It's Kentucky's CPS, what were you expecting?

    For those that don't live in Kentucky, allow me to explain a few things about the Kentucky CPS as a resident:

    1. Kentucky's CPS is pure garbage. That may seem like hyperbole, but I assure you it's not. Most of the time KY's CPS gets called they are so fearful of being sued that they often refuse to even process the request. In the few cases where they do get involved, 9 times out of 10 they claim that the report was unsubstantiated. Again, due to fears of dealing with angry parents / grandparents / relatives / etc. in court. Such as when they've been out to a residence three times within 5 years, for 3 different reports from 3 different agencies, and the kids involved have known issues. Even when given photographic evidence by a school multiple times over, the KY CPS often refuses to remove a child or start proceedings. The few times the KY CPS does take action, like seen here, is often when no action is needed. Typically the CPS agent is operating on discrimination more than evidence based facts. Such as a parent working a second not so family friendly job to make ends meet for her kids, or a guardian with custody who only wants what's best for the kids vs a suing dead beat parent that wants the child support check.

    2. Everyone in Kentucky knows this. Again, sounds like hyperbole but it's not. Practically everyone in KY has a negative view of the KY CPS. People hear of a horror story like this occasionally, and they'll all make a fuss over it, but the overall response is a shrug. This is because even the politicians know how bad KY's CPS is, but the state's only solution for decades has been to reduce funding thinking that this budget cut will surely fix everything.

    3. KY's CPS has an impossible job. Notice a pattern here? The public's views of the KY CPS are so poor that they tend to lack the resources to handle the requests they are given. Let alone retain quality personnel, discipline their rule breakers, provide good training for their staff, defend against lawsuits, etc. Throwing money at them alone won't fix the issues rampant with the KY CPS. Actually fixing those issues would also require a hard look at the organization and a willingness to do what was needed to reform it from both the citizenry and politicians alike. A requirement that has not been fulfilled in decades. There simply is no political motivation for the state to act on it, and no desire from the state's citizenry to do anything about them. Of course, Kentucky is also one of the biggest takers from the federal pot when it comes to shoring up it's state budget, so having money to throw at problems in general is yet another requirement that the state cannot meet and another cause for the impossible mandate.

    To answer the post above's questions:

    1. Probably not very long.
    2. Unknown, it would take an act of congress to get the records. Assuming people cared enough.... (See no evil....)
    3. If she was raised in KY, you have your answer. If not, it was probably the on-the-job experience that did it.
    4. The nature of her job is an adversarial one. On top of that, the agency she works for is beyond redemption as far as the citizenry is concerned. Damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't, she goes to extremes as it will end the same way regardless: With a lawsuit. (This time seems to be more of an exception to the rule however. Wherein she can be held responsible for her actions.)

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13. icon
    Coffee U (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 6:38am

    Probably will be overturned on appeal :/

    Childress’s alleged actions were “so clearly” unconstitutional under Supreme Court precedent that we don’t need to find that “the very action[s] in question have previously been held unlawful” in this circuit.

    I thought the whole point of qualified immunity immunity is that officers/gov employees can only know something is unconstitutional if there's already been a case that has found it so (regardless of the liklihood of the employee being aware of the case). If employees could somehow not know it's unconstitutional to break into someone's home on a no-knock warrant, and shoot an unarmed woman sitting in her home eating ice cream, I'd find it equally valid to think a similar person could not know it's unconstitutional to strip search minors.

    Which is to say yes, QI needs to go. But until it goes I won't be surprised (just outraged) when this is reversed.

    Also, WTF is up with the social worker thinking all kids under 4 needed to be strip searched as a routine part of her work... are there not people now going through her entire career history?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 6:40am

    Sounds to me like a couple of chomos getting off on abusing authority.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15. identicon
    Benign Bodger, 28 Aug 2020 @ 6:41am

    New Employment

    And in further news Childress has been hired by the Trump administration to handle 'difficult' children separated from their parents at the southern border...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 6:47am

    What their fate should be

    Fire them, convict them of child abuse, and put them on a sex offender registry. It's the only way to be as sure as possible that they never go near another child ever again - incuding their own, should they have any.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 7:40am

    Oh look, people who should NEVER be around kids again...

    Normally I don't care much for it, as stories have pointed out how often it's misused for vindictive methods rather than protecting the public, but in this case the two scumbags involved absolutely deserve to be placed on the sex offender registry with all that entails.

    You do not essentially break into a person's house, hold the parent hostage, and then strip a bunch of children naked in their home as simply 'part of the job', if they did this it was because they wanted to see a bunch of naked kids, and with the excuse they gave that they had the 'right' to strip any kid under four I find it really hard to believe that this was the first time.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 8:11am

    Re: Probably will be overturned on appeal :/

    While I would be disgusted but not surprised if you end up right I suspect that self-preservation on the part of the judges involved will mean that even they won't want to give this one a pass. Being a judge known for ruling that social workers can absolutely strip kids naked on a whim and couldn't possibly have known that that was wrong will likely be incentive enough to rule otherwise.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 10:27am

    Re: It's Kentucky's CPS, what were you expecting?

    Thank you for this explanation. It sounds very weird to me that they just de-fund an organization that doesn't work and makes it harder for it to do anything about it.
    Not that I think they will do it themselves even if they had the money, but any forced changes to make it effective will also require money.
    Sounds like they are doing it to punish them and force change (which will not happen in this way) but sounds very much like politicians thought process.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20. icon
    restless94110 (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 11:09am

    CPS

    CPS has overstepped its authority starting at least 15 years ago. It is authoritarian and ineffective. It should be disbanded and/or reformed.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 11:13am

    Re: Probably will be overturned on appeal :/

    Note the wording: 'we don’t need to find that “the very action[s] in question have previously been held unlawful” in this circuit.' (emphasis added)

    The opinion is saying that, since the Supreme Court has already addressed a case that's on point, the district court doesn't need to go looking for precedent in its own circuit. It can simply cite the Supreme Court precedent.

    Which won't necessarily stop a panel of circuit court judges from finding that the Supreme Court precedent was for a strip search that happened on a Tuesday, but this one happened on a Wednesday - but to do that in the face of Supreme Court precedent is eventually asking for a benchslap from on high.

    It's interesting that the justice (I forget which) who drafted the original opinion on qualified immunity expressed reservations about it, which essentially amounted to worrying that it would give a free pass to actions that were simply too egregious to have been committed before, and therefore didn't have direct cases on point. Alas, those reservations have been proven to be entirely accurate.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22. icon
    Another Kevin (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 11:16am

    Re: Oh look, people who should NEVER be around kids again...

    In this case, I don't think it was any sort of perverse desire to see kids naked. It was using the kids as weapons - the perverse desire was for power over the mother. They didn't get their gratification from seeing the kids' wee-wees, they got their gratification from seeing the mother weeping.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 11:24am

    Re: Re: Oh look, people who should NEVER be around kids again...

    Which would be better, but not by much.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 11:38am

    That…really isn’t too much better. Instead of using children as sex objects, they used children as weapons to inflict psychological distress upon the parent of said children. They abused those children either way; their ultimate intent is largely (but not entirely) irrelevant to the actions they took.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25. icon
    Stephen T. Stone (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 11:44am

    I get what you’re trying to do here. It’s cute, really. But it’s also correct: Any system that allows for (and possibly encourages) rampant and unchecked abuses of power by those who work within it requires massive reforms to curtail those abuses and kick the abusers out.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26. icon
    ECA (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 12:25pm

    I pitty the officer.

    Police are givien certain things that they can do.
    Knowing EVERYTHING is the Thought that you have no excuse NOT knowing the law. WE have allot of laws.
    So, he should not be the responsible one.
    He is depending on the other PERSON in charge of a state agency to KNOW THE LAWS she needs to know.
    He is there to Support/backup that 1 person.

    But,
    He did go past a point that he SHOULD have known. That Children are protected under EVERY LAW.
    That lady could NOT TOUCH ANY of the children.
    The Officer SHOULD NOT EVEN ENTER, without a warrant that the LADY SHOULD OF HAD.

    I dont know How she got a police officer to go with her. SHE had to ask the dept for someone to go with her.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 1:44pm

    Re:

    Children's LinkedIn profile is still visible. But iirc she worked for CPS for less than 2 years after graduating as a non traditional student (ie old person) w/ a B.S. Her prior work history was mainly customer service and admin stuff.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 1:46pm

    Re: social worker's work history

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 28 Aug 2020 @ 1:52pm

    Re: It's Kentucky's CPS, what were you expecting?

    heres her self declared work history and "Experience"

    Barren River Area Safe Space
    Family Advocate
    Barren River Area Safe Space
    Jan 2014 – Oct 2015 1 year 10 months

    At Barren River Safe Space (BRASS) I have practiced classroom recommendations, listened to many women talk about their abuse, used my life experiences to provide hope for each of them, and prayed many times for the correct words to enter in to my mind and to be communicated in a manner that is both easily understood and empowering to the individuals I'm trying to help. As I enter into the workforce as a full time employee of the agency of my choice I would like to continue to learn, grow...

    Show more
    Department of Protection and Permanency-Warren County, Kentucky
    Internship
    Department of Protection and Permanency-Warren County, Kentucky
    Jan 2015 – Aug 2015 8 months

    Bowling Green, Kentucky

    During the last six months I completed an internship at the Department of Protection and Permanency in Warren County. I have traveled with social workers on home visits, court appearances, out of home residential facilities, and assisted with supervised visits in the office. My desire to continue to help others see barriers as opportunities has only increased.

    Ashleys Angels Childcare
    Head Toddler Teacher/Sub Group
    Ashley's Angels Childcare
    Jul 2014 – Jan 2015 7 months

    Bowling Green, Kentucky

    • Prepared lesson plans for daily activities with children that are one year old.
    • Provide a safe environment and that promotes the well-being and development of the children in the classroom

    Conifer Health Solutions
    Senior Customer Service Representative
    Conifer Health Solutions
    Jan 2013 – Mar 2013 3 months

    Bowling Green, Kentucky

    Conifer Health Solutions, Bowling Green, KY
    • Processed payments for self-pay patients for medical services received.
    • Took a high average of inbound calls and collected $100,000 a month after training completion

    Dell
    Adminstrative Assistant/Receptionist
    Dell
    Jun 2001 – Dec 2012 11 years 7 months

    Bowliing Green, Kentucky

    • Compiled information from call center employees and developed statistical information for Managers.
    • Answered phone, greeted visitors, and provided direction for new applicants and visitors.
    • Ordered office supplies for entire call center, processed mail and administrated employment test.

    Grayson County School District
    Substitute Teacher
    Grayson County School District
    Jan 2010 – May 2011 1 year 5 months

    Lietchfield KY

    • Followed lesson plans and instructions left by the teacher
    • Assisted middle school and special education students at Grayson County Middle School and Lawler Elementary

    Warren Rural Electric
    Customer Service Representative/Accounting Clerk
    Warren Rural Electric
    Dec 2005 – Dec 2009 4 years 1 month

    Leitchfield Ky

    • Assisted customers with applying for new service and billing issues.
    • Performed accounting functions (accounts payable and receivable) generated the financial statements, and completed daily banking transactions

    Twin Lakes Regional Medical Center
    Medical Receptionist
    Twin Lakes Regional Medical Center
    Jul 2002 – Dec 2005 3 years 6 months

    Caneyville, Ky

    • Assisted patients with all necessary medical forms, schedule appointments, completed referrals, preformed general office duties daily and closed the office at the end of the day.

    Mouser Cabinetry
    Mouser Cabinetry
    12 years

    Customer Service Representative
    Jan 2000 – Jul 2002 2 years 7 months

    Elizabethtown, KY

    • Provided technical assistance to Certified Kitchen designers.
    • Resolved issues for the manufacturing plant, Kitchen designs and retail customers.
    • Reviewed kitchen layouts for proper fit and operation in customer’s kitchens.

    Retail Order Processing Manager
    Jan 1997 – Jan 2000 3 years 1 month

    Elizabethtown, Ky

    • Worked with several departments to insure cabinets and countertops were correctly ordered for custom shaped kitchens.
    • Provided technical assistance to order processing associates and kitchen designers to improve the end result of kitchen cabinet orders.
    • Designed and implemented time saving measure to improve the quality o f the processing of orders for complete kitchens.

    Order Service Manager
    Dec 1995 – Dec 1997 2 years 1 month

    Elizabethtown, Ky

    • Managed order processing department.
    • Provided technical assistance for fellow associated in processing paperwork for cabinet manufacturing plant.
    • Developed team leader programs to improve production and accuracy within the department.
    • Defined guidelines for the tracking of processing paperwork and with the results, the tracking was able to determine the hours required for fellow associates to process and complete their paperwork.

    Order Processor
    Aug 1990 – Dec 1995 5 years 5 months

    Elizabettown, Ky

    • Processed a high percentage of paperwork within the department

    Education
    Western Kentucky UniversityWestern Kentucky University
    Western Kentucky University
    Bachelor's degreeSocial Work GPA 3.11
    2011 – 2015

    Participated in the Social Work Program educational classes

    Bowling Green Tech College
    Bowling Green Tech College
    General Education Classes Toward a Bachelors in Social Work GPA 2.45
    2010 – 2011

    Completed general education classes required to transfer to the undergraduate program of social work at Western Kentucky University

    Watterson College
    Watterson College
    Accounting DiplomiaAccounting GPA 3.57
    1984 – 1986

    Completed educational classes required for an Accounting Diplomia

    Fairdale High School
    Fairdale High School
    High School Diplomia
    1970 – 1983

    Completed educational classes and obtained a High School Diplomia

    Volunteer Experience
    National Delegate for Girl Scouts of KentuckianaThe Girl Scouts of Kentuckiana
    National Delegate for Girl Scouts of Kentuckiana
    The Girl Scouts of Kentuckiana
    Education

    Currently I proudly represent Girl Scouts of Kentuckiana as a National Delegate. I have been a member of Girl Scouts of Kentuckiana for approx. 17 years. I have served in many capacities throughout the years starting as a troop leader, and additional roles of Grayson County Membership recruiter, cookie chair, annual giving chair, fall product chair, trainer, annual meeting committee member council committees, delegate, alternate, area nominating chair, service unit manager, and several other...

    Show more
    Family AdvocateBarren River Area Safe Space
    Family Advocate
    Barren River Area Safe Space
    May 2013 – Present7 years 4 months

    Children

    Before becoming a part-time family advocate, I assisted mothers and children residing at BRASS with one on one activities with their children.

    Languages

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30. icon
    Sneeje (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 4:48pm

    Re:

    As much as I am behind radical reformation of our systems of policing and increasing social work and other alternatives, it is this example and what you've said that give me pause.

    All forms of governmental power are subject to abuse and they are only as good as the dedication, competence, and fundamental character of the people that staff it.

    So I fear we may be trading one form of abuse for another.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 5:31pm

    Re: I pitty the officer.

    So, he should not be the responsible one.

    No. Just... no. Even if he had just stood by and watched when the person he was with started stripping clothing off of kids it should have been blatantly obvious that something was going on that needed to be stopped. That he not only wasn't just passively watching but was actively involved means he's absolutely deserving of a share of the blame.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32. icon
    ECA (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 10:00pm

    Re: Re: I pitty the officer.

    I agree,
    But he wasnt trained to know anything. His training is based on the idea that SOMEONE else knows better then he does.
    He expects this lady to know her job.

    The problem here comes with the Children. He should have known, that You cant do anything to Another persons Children. you should Never even touch them.
    All the lady had to do, was wonder the home and look for something that would make her think(DUH), the children was in a bad place. THEN she could of gone to court to get the children pulled out.

    Many other countries Give continuous education to the police, so that they are Smart enough to know the law. NOT expect others to.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33. icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), 28 Aug 2020 @ 11:06pm

    I worry for the other people she bullied into silence with threats of taking the kids away if they complained.

    This is obviously not the first time she had done this & if not for the lawsuit would still be doing it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34. identicon
    OGquaker, 29 Aug 2020 @ 3:29am

    Six posible wage slaves lost, unless Properly educated

    Missed it, guys. https://youtu.be/rpErkOrAGNI Until 2020, "home school" was a punishable offense for almost all parents in this country, moving the household often kept my step kids under the radar; my three daughters went in and out of 'public' school, AS THEY WANTED, and most of their schooling was an inexpensive non-religious "home school" program. Two have their Masters from University of California now, one married "very well". Most States own your children unless a parent or other adult has been awarded custody by a Superior Court Judge, and the Federal Government picks up the $tab for children removed from the home since the 1990's, driving the bureaucracy of 'Children's Services'.
    Disclaimer: until last year,I have been a fingerprinted, certified, back-ground approved unpayed "Monitor" for parent "visitations" with their child or children, at BurgerKing or in the C.S. facility for 25 years, sometimes driving the parent 350 miles for each two hour visit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35. identicon
    dickeyrat, 29 Aug 2020 @ 7:38am

    Welcome to Kenfucky, the same fine, outstanding place that wasn't wanted by either side in the Civil War, foisted Mitch McConnell on the rest of the country, murdered Breonna Taylor for being Black-in-Her-Bed, and gives us plenty of fine tobacco year-round. This state is a true piece of shit, and should be given to ISIS as a love gift.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36. icon
    ECA (profile), 29 Aug 2020 @ 11:04am

    Anyone want to debate this?

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/16/viral-image/post-comparing-us-police-training-and- fatal-shooti/ (and since this is txt format you get to copy paste) The article is pretty good, but its the end/lower sections that seem to be current. I do think its interesting that Everyone brings up the Number of guns in the USA. But not how mnay people OWN those guns. There are collectors with hundreds. There are Few people that Do have guns. Another point tends to be a Business based on weapons, that has Many Employee's around the country. And hte corp side of this sells more weapons to other nations then Inside the USA. There are problems with guns, but the one I see most is Basic idiocy, and NO ONE to explain, show, Anyone how to use and protect the guns. Handling and respect for what they can do, and cant do. Most of those that have had even basic training, seem to have more respect.(there will always be idiots) Showing people what a gun can do, HELPS. Showing them that a .22 is as dangerous as many other Bullets, based on Where you hit a person, range and other choices. AND that SHEETROCK protects nothing. HELPS. Many of the northern EU, have basic training in weapons, EARLY, and even use the Citizens as the military as needed, IF needed. But the warnings of use are restricting. Iv mentioned why police have camera's and there are many good reasons. Some of those reasons can make it simple for the officer to LEAVE a situation, but follow up After the fact and NOT put himself at risk. For some strange reason we are seeing police do stupid things. I would consider it GREAT that your camera got a picture of the person(s), and you AND others can work together Later to solve the problem. I love the thought that Cops have Tons of gear to protect themselves, but Rush into a house in T-Shirts and vests(that only protect the chest). And they dont want to be Shot, so they Shoot first. And head shots/Multiple shots are best, as there is no one to contest What happened(mentality) really sucks.(29 shots, 7 hits, really says something)(and remember, sheetrock dont stop bullets very well, and the kids in the next room or house next door).

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37. icon
    R.H. (profile), 29 Aug 2020 @ 12:20pm

    Re:

    They're being sued civilly not criminally charged. Therefore, the answer to your question is no.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 29 Aug 2020 @ 3:36pm

    Welp. They made certain that those children were abused at that point.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39. identicon
    David, 30 Aug 2020 @ 12:39am

    Re: Re: Re: I pitty the officer.

    Many other countries Give continuous education to the police, so that they are Smart enough to know the law. NOT expect others to.

    No other country has "Qualified Immunity", a blank pass for everything if you can show that you don't have the mental capacity and moral compass to know when you are breaking the law.

    Because of QI, applicants to police service are rejected if they show above-average intelligence since they can bring their whole department into legal responsibility just by not plausibly being able to deny knowing right from wrong.

    Educating police officers is self-defeating in the U.S. and not just causes the additional cost of the education itself but also the followup costs of losing qualified immunity for their out-of-line conduct.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40. identicon
    David, 30 Aug 2020 @ 12:40am

    Re:

    What's with Colonel Sanders?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41. identicon
    David, 30 Aug 2020 @ 12:44am

    Re:

    Well, that's step one. Step two is to take them away when they now act strange under interrogation.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42. identicon
    Dr evil, 30 Aug 2020 @ 4:46am

    Shameful

    That it took a court battle to identify official sexual abuse. Show me your wiener.. I mean muscles. Lick, smack.. drool.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43. icon
    witness37 (profile), 30 Aug 2020 @ 2:49pm

    Re: Six posible wage slaves lost, unless Properly educated

    I homeschooled my 4 children from 1990 to 2009, in half-a-dozen different states. I have had social workers and school system representatives knock on my door, but after the first few encounters I learned to check in with the school system whenever we were in a new location, and sometimes even before moving there. I met with the superintendent, told him who I was and what I was doing, and made sure I was compliant with state law. From that point on, no problems.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44. icon
    ECA (profile), 30 Aug 2020 @ 3:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: I pitty the officer.

    But thats the thing about smart police. They get into less trouble. But the Corps and others dont get the idea, they want them ignorant, and "DO as I say" Esp. when the only people Paying fot he mistakes Are the citizens.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45. identicon
    Ruth Mackey, 6 Oct 2020 @ 5:16pm

    Above article describing illegal entry and physical search.

    Unbelieveable! I am sure I would have lost it when an unknown person began to undress my child.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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