Why Is The US Trying To Keep COVID-19 Vaccine Data Locked Up? Share It With The Whole Damn World

from the lock-up-culture dept

The NY Times had a report over the weekend about how the US government was gearing up to accuse China of using cyberattacks to get at COVID-19 vaccine data:

The F.B.I. and the Department of Homeland Security are preparing to issue a warning that China’s most skilled hackers and spies are working to steal American research in the crash effort to develop vaccines and treatments for the coronavirus. The efforts are part of a surge in cybertheft and attacks by nations seeking advantage in the pandemic.

[....]

A draft of the forthcoming public warning, which officials say is likely to be issued in the days to come, says China is seeking “valuable intellectual property and public health data through illicit means related to vaccines, treatments and testing.” It focuses on cybertheft and action by “nontraditional actors,” a euphemism for researchers and students the Trump administration says are being activated to steal data from inside academic and private laboratories.

I am sure this might be happening, but rather than fretting about cyber attacks and hacks, shouldn't we be asking why this data is locked up in the first place? This is a massive global health crisis, and the best way to get to a real vaccine or treatment is by sharing as much data as possible and being as open as possible. It truly should not matter if the US develops a treatment first or if someone else does. I recognize that there are ridiculous leaders around the globe who are more focused on "owning" any eventual treatment, and perhaps even using it only for their own citizens, but this is insanely short-sighted on both sides of the equation.

First, we will develop any successful treatment much faster (and likely much better) by getting more smart people considering all the options and making suggestions on better approaches. That will save a huge number of lives. Second, it's a global pandemic, and the only way to really make sure it's not a problem in any particular region is to make sure it's not a problem anywhere. Solving for it in one country would then require constant vigilance to make sure it doesn't re-enter.

This really should be a moment of global cooperation to deal with the pandemic on a truly global basis. And yet, so many countries -- including the US -- are retreating into nonsense nationalistic stances that focus on locking up ideas and keeping things for "ourselves," rather than opening things up to the world and sharing broadly. What a shame.

Filed Under: china, covid-19, cyberattacks, hackers, innovation, research, sharing, vaccines


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  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 1:35pm

    'Oh no, is the floor okay?'

    Thing is, if they are trying to get that data I can't really find it in myself to get upset. We're talking about a data related to a global pandemic, data that should be shared freely in order to better address the mounting death toll, not locked up to protect company profits or used to score political points.

    When lives are literally on the line and the body count is already massive anyone who looks at that and thinks 'How can I use this for my benefit?' absolutely deserves to get slapped down, and if that includes governments then so be it.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 7:31am

      Re: 'Oh no, is the floor okay?'

      When lives are literally on the line and the body count is already massive anyone who looks at that and thinks 'How can I use this for my benefit?' absolutely deserves to get slapped down, and if that includes governments then so be it.

      If it happens to the US it will be by the hand of the international community. The US is too uncaring to correct itself.

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  • icon
    Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 2:02pm

    Squeeze it so hard you lose your grip

    I am not sure who is more culpable. IP maximalists who claim everything must be owned and wouldn't share oxygen if they had a way to control it. The legislators who bend and bow to those who maintain (aka contribute financially) their psychopathic quest for power. Or the Administration who seems bent upon starting trade wars with everyone in the world who isn't us, in the name of coming out on top for not necessarily good reasons.

    But we can for sure blame the conflagration of the above and its short name, greed. Greed, to those who seek control, causes them to deem it better to maintain control than to save a life, and it probably doesn't matter whether that life is American or Chinese if it means even some loss of control.

    I can seen this backfiring on them. I don't think it likely, as they are so entrenched, but it is a possibility.

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  • icon
    Koby (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 2:08pm

    Reasons

    1.) Big pharmaceutical companies love the idea that they can patent a treatment, cure, or vaccine, and then get paid for it. As usual, follow the money. And they don't like competition.

    2.) I think a lot of people are upset at the blatantly false numbers out of China, and are now uninterested in providing China with valuable information which China themselves were unwilling to provide. One might hope that next time, China will provide some real numbers so that the rest of the world will be more prepared too. It should be a two way street.

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    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 3:41pm

      Cutting off your nose to spite your neighbor

      2.) I think a lot of people are upset at the blatantly false numbers out of China, and are now uninterested in providing China with valuable information which China themselves were unwilling to provide.

      An act which just shows that both sides are acting like brats throwing a tantrum, and undermines any high ground that might have been attained.

      China wants to keep things hushed up in order to cover their own asses? Great, here's all the data to show everyone what a responsible government looks like, one that care more about lives than image. China's not willing to do that and is instead focused on saving face? Well, that's certainly not a good look, good thing there are other countries more responsible.

      Instead of returning the favor of China putting image above lives by doing the same other countries could easily show how it should be done. By instead meeting lies with silence both sides come out looking bad.

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      • identicon
        Rekrul, 12 May 2020 @ 11:20am

        Re: Cutting off your nose to spite your neighbor

        China wants to keep things hushed up in order to cover their own asses? Great, here's all the data to show everyone what a responsible government looks like, one that care more about lives than image.

        In what universe does the U.S. have a "responsible" government that cares about people's lives?

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        • icon
          That One Guy (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 12:11pm

          Re: Re: Cutting off your nose to spite your neighbor

          Oh it was more of a hypothetical/general as the USG most certainly does not fall into that category, rather the aim was at any government that wanted to take the opportunity to show up the tantrum throwing toddlers running various countries at the moment by showing what a mature response could be.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 2:09pm

    Isn't this just typical of the USA? It wants to know every single detail of everyone on the Planet and will go to any lengths to achieve that end while, at the same time, will accuse anyone and everyone, but China in particular, of doing the exact same thing, even when data on a specific subject needs to be shared as much as possible, as quickly as possible so as to find a cure for the betterment of everyone!

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 2:09pm

    Why Is The US Trying To Keep COVID-19 Vaccine Data Locked Up?

    Because its president believes everything should be owned, and that cooperation is a conspiracy against him.

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  • icon
    mvario (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 2:11pm

    Finland has the right idea...

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 9:05am

      Re: Finland has the right idea...

      Are they really? The article doesn't link to any information about this vaccine. I went to the University's english website and found only press release information very similar to this article with no additional details. I went digging through a couple search engines specializing in science publications and found nothing. Doesn't appear to be very open source and public.

      The reality is they've probably got a fair amount of information they're perfectly happy to share with others but it all exists on the Universities internal network because they haven't reached the point of releasing a formal paper on it yet. Just like is true of so many other vaccine efforts going on, including in the US.

      And yet somehow you claim they, the Finnish team, are doing it right while you jump no the bandwagon here that the US is locking up the data? Then again, why let a little hypocrisy get in the way of blaming the US for being a bad actor.

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  • icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 2:22pm

    The US continues to think money is more important than lives.

    At some point I hope this becomes evidence enough to indict the US federal government for failing to serve the public, and we either massively reform it or burn it down.

    Given Trump has deferred responsibility to the states (all the while marauding state accumulated PPE when it can) he's setting the stage for a mass exodus once deaths rise into the millions.

    I recently learned about Cascadia. It's sounding pretty attractive.

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  • identicon
    Crafty Coyote, 11 May 2020 @ 2:35pm

    Because if the whole fiasco with the 3d printers making ventilator parts taught us anything, it's that profit matters more than people.

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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 2:52pm

    "Why Is The US Trying To Keep COVID-19 Vaccine Data Locked Up? Share It With The Whole Damn World"

    Seriously? Did Mike think before he actually posted that? Like China locking up all information relating to the Coronavirus by forcing its scientists and doctors to retract statements, arrested and jailed them and ordered their people not to discuss the Coronavirus to anyone?

    Guaranteed that the first person who develops a cure for the virus won't release it until they get a patent or whatever it is they would get, before agreeing to release the the cure. This is all about money, make no mistake about that.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 3:01pm

      Re:

      I guess you've never heard of a "rhetorical question" as a way of making a point when the answer is obvious. They key is to get you to answer the question yourself which makes you automatically agree with the expected answer. It's a great literary tool that works even on illiterate tools.

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    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 12:36am

      Re:

      A quick word to the wise - "but, but, but China!" does not absolve the US of pulling shitty stunts. It's possible for both of you to be bad.

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      • icon
        Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 4:39am

        Re: Re:

        It's worse. I'm not sure whether the knee-jerk whataboutism has become the unthinking automatic response to any criticism or if it's the actual Death Cult mindset at work, but what he's essentially saying is that "My unpleasant neighbor just shot up the high school in town! Why are you liberal fiends going after me for trying to burn down the orphanage?! I have the SAME RIGHTS he does!!"

        It's the way those people think now.

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        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 6:21am

          Re: Re: Re:

          It's just a childish mentality overall. They seem to be people who never got taught that "but Mom, Billy did it too" doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their own actions.

          I've said it before, but the drive to be the best at everything has apparently been replaced by the attitude that if you're not dead last there's no need to try to be better. pathetic.

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      • icon
        Toom1275 (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 9:10am

        Re: Re:

        The US hiding data and making bogus accusations against China only turns what would have been stones cast without sin into useless projection and whataboutism.

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    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 4:35am

      Re:

      "Like China locking up all information relating to the Coronavirus by forcing its scientists and doctors to retract statements, arrested and jailed them and ordered their people not to discuss the Coronavirus to anyone?"

      So wait. Because China has been acting like douchebags the US now feels justified in jeopardizing the entire world in even worse ways?

      THAT is your defense of the US role in this? That you aren't satisfied with just one side acting with criminal negligence unless you yourself gets to be exactly that stupid as well?

      Is that the Trump death cult logic at work again?

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 3:20pm

    1. There is no nerve agent, LSD, or virus vaccine. They are not physically possible.

    2. It's hard to know where the line is on terrorism information sharing given the magnitude of the problem from India or China.

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    • icon
      Khym Chanur (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 3:54pm

      Re:

      There is no ... virus vaccine. They are not physically possible.

      ????

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        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 4:08pm

        Re: Re:

        Virus vaccines have been possible but they are much less reliable than a bacterial vaccine. Usually they never work.

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 4:16pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          What the actual fuck are you talking about? More anti-vaxxer nonsense?

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        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 6:00pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Most all vaccines are viral.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Khym Chanur (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 7:21pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Sources/citations for viral vaccines almost never working?

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            identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 7:31pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Biology class and some old textbook.

            A bacteria is like a little plant or animal eating you from the inside. A weak one is easy to develop.

            A virus is like a protien that integrates into your DNA. It's hard to make a "weak" one as opposed to a completely different one.

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            • icon
              Khym Chanur (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 7:43pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              1) Not all vaccines are of "weakened" (attenuated) variety. Many are of a killed (inactivated) variety.

              2) Yes, making a weakened/attenuated strain of a virus isn't easy. But once it's been made, replicating it is for vaccine production is no harder than replicating the wild/normal variant, because being weakened is a heritable trait. And once you have a vaccine made from an attenuated virus, there's no reason I know of for it to work less well than an attenuated bacterial vaccine.

              3) Making a weakened/attenuated bacteria isn't any easier. Making a weakened bacteria for a vaccine does NOT consist of damaging the bacteria without killing it. If you damaged bacteria without killing it, then when they replicates their descendants will be healthy. If the bacteria are damaged so much that they can't replicate then, from the point of view of using them in a vaccine, they aren't that different than bacteria have been killed. To make weakened bacteria for use in a vaccine you have to create a weaker strain of the bacteria, just like you do for viruses used in attenuated vaccines.

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                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 8:29pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                That isn't true.

                You don't understand vaccine science very well.

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                • icon
                  Khym Chanur (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 8:32pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Which parts aren't true? My comment had multiple claims.

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                    identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 9:13pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Everything you said under point 3 is false in some way.

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                    • icon
                      Khym Chanur (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 9:42pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Descendants of damaged bacteria won't be healthy? Are you asserting some form of Lamarckian evoluition?

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                      • icon
                        Khym Chanur (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 9:48pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Or are you implying that the only way to damage bacteria is to damage their DNA?

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                        identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 9:55pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Hitting it with a mutagen and then seeing if it is more or less suitable for a vaccine is a standard experiment.

                        There are other incorrect statements too.

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                        • identicon
                          Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 6:49am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Tossing out claims of incorrect statements without even identifying what statement is supposedly wrong much less what is wrong about it is a bit childish, no?

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                    • icon
                      Khym Chanur (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 9:45pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      And even assuming that everything I said in point 3 is false, that doesn't mean that viral vaccines (inactivated or attenuated) are less effective than bacterial vaccines.

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                • icon
                  Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 1:09am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "You don't understand vaccine science very well."

                  On the contrary, claiming that most vaccines are bacterial and viral vaccines don't work very well is a damning indication that you are the one talking out of your ass.

                  Your "biology class and some textbook" apparently failed to teach you how things work. I suggest you go back and re-read them - or better yet go read up on what the actual experts have said about that matter.

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        • icon
          Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 1:03am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "Virus vaccines have been possible but they are much less reliable than a bacterial vaccine."

          Like the Polio vaccine, Measles vaccines, etc, you mean?

          Take a hint, if all you know is what you heard from some anti-vaxxer on the infowars comment page then you'd be better off shutting up.

          Fact of the matter is that both of your statements are outright untrue. Most vaccines are, in fact, against viral diseases. And most viral vaccines are, in fact, highly effective.

          I seriously hope the bullshit you post is out of honest ignorance and a case of dunning-kruger - which would be bad but beats the alternative which is sheer trolling.

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        • identicon
          David, 12 May 2020 @ 2:10am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Look, vaccines are named after cows. Because of cowpox, the basis of a vaccine against smallpox. A viral disease with global spread that has been completely eradicated through vaccination.

          It doesn't get more effective than that.

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            identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 3:34am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            The vaccine was not the only treatment and was not the most effective method used.

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            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 4:15am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Back in those days, vaccination with cowpox was the only way of preventing smallpox, with all its effects. Masks for example were fashionable back then because they hid the pock marks on survivors of smallpox.

              Also note, a vaccine in not a cure for a disease, but rather a way of triggering the immune system so that it can destroy the targeted disease cannot establish itself on the protected person. That is a vaccine is a preventive measure, rather than a cure for someone with the disease.

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              • identicon
                David, 12 May 2020 @ 5:16am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                That is a vaccine is a preventive measure, rather than a cure for someone with the disease.

                Vaccination in early stages of smallpox considerably improved the prognosis for infected persons. Of course not having to race the dangerous pathogen with regard to creating a useful immune response is preferable. Both with regard to the outcome for the individual, as well as concerning logistics.

                Anyway, I'll readily admit that I am impressed at the amount of denial whataboutism is prepared to embrace. Given the long (and fortunately ended) history of smallpox and the solitary role vaccination played in ending it, it seems really extraordinarily stupid to try arguing it away. If I were paid to be an anti-vaxxer, I'd rather focus on some "smallpox was one of a kind and now vaccination is no longer useful for anything else, as you can see because we have eliminated nothing of the kind since then" kind of handwaving idiocy rather than actually suggesting smallpox went away because, say, more people wash hands than in the stone age?

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            • icon
              Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 4:43am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "The vaccine was not the only treatment and was not the most effective method used."

              Remarkable. False on both counts.

              Unless you count the verifiable unhelpful or outright harmful "treatments" as having parity with the vaccine which rendered people immune, of course, at which point in time it's less your argument but your actual brain which appears to have the problem.

              You anti-vaxxers really have a hard time grasping basic science - or observable reality, for that matter.

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              • identicon
                David, 12 May 2020 @ 5:29am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Unless you count the verifiable unhelpful or outright harmful "treatments" as having parity with the vaccine which rendered people immune, of course, at which point in time it's less your argument but your actual brain which appears to have the problem.

                Oh, there actually also was inoculation, a practice used for rendering people immune centuries before vaccination was used. Basically instead of infecting people with a pathogen that was similar enough (but comparatively benign) to the dangerous pathogen to trigger a workable immune response, you tried infecting people in a manner (like on scratches) where the immune response had a better chance of winning the race against pathogen multiplication than when infected via the typical infection paths.

                Inoculation did render people immune. It also rendered quite a few of them dead, and some of them infecting others in the course. It was fighting inferno with fire.

                It was verifiable helpful, and verifiable outright harmful in a number of cases. No quotes around "treatments" called for, but certainly not something you'd prefer over vaccination when available.

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                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 3:09pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Oh, there actually also was inoculation, a practice used for rendering people immune centuries before vaccination was used

                  Inoculation was a primitive form of vaccination, just not as safe as the modern forms of vaccination. Using cowpox instead of smallpox was an improvement in safety.

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                  • identicon
                    David, 12 May 2020 @ 5:18pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Well, that's like saying that skydiving into trees is a primitive form of parachuting, just not as safe as the modern forms of parachuting. Using parachutes instead of trees was an improvement in safety.

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                    • icon
                      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 13 May 2020 @ 1:27am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "Well, that's like saying that skydiving into trees is a primitive form of parachuting..."

                      Well, to be fair, it is. Much like the example of inoculation "aiming for the foliage" gives you better odds of living than going straight for the dirt. It's just a question of how high your speed is when you hit.

                      Or to bring it back to the original example, how fatal the disease is under circumstances as controlled as possible.

                      Inoculation uses the exact same means to achieve immunity as vaccination does - it's just a question of improving the safety measures around those means.

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            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 6:53am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              First you claimed it was not possible and later you say it is not the only treatment and not the most effective - what's next ... it will cause autism?

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 3:22pm

    Projection of power

    Just like China is currently pushing out in all direction while other countries are dealing with the Wuhan virus. The first country to have a vaccine/ immunity will be able to extend their influence in both military might, and through favorable deals for the vaccine.

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    • identicon
      David, 12 May 2020 @ 5:34am

      Re: Projection of power

      "Denn heute gehört uns Deutschland, und morgen die ganze Welt!"

      The doctrine of investing your efforts and qualities into subjugating the rest of the world tends to make it more rather than less difficult getting along with the rest of the world.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 6:54am

      Re: Projection of power

      " dealing with the Wuhan virus."

      It is the Trump virus and you know it.

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  • icon
    Godfree (profile), 11 May 2020 @ 4:22pm

    Top Secret?

    Why are NIH meetings on Covid-19 held in electronically secure facilities?

    Why did the CDC forbid testing until March 3 and then release a useless test?

    Why has the CDC refused to release details of its Patient Zero?

    What's going on?

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    • icon
      Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 13 May 2020 @ 1:43am

      Re: Top Secret?

      "Why are NIH meetings on Covid-19 held in electronically secure facilities?"

      The same reason just about every US governmental meeting is held in secure facilities? Although you could question the type of government which makes all government policy in the dark - the way China does, and to a lesser extent the US - the fact that facilities meant to discuss government information remain secured no matter what is debated there isn't in itself a factor of suspicion.

      "Why did the CDC forbid testing until March 3 and then release a useless test? "

      Because, as has been heavily documented and revealed by one news organization and no small amount of political pundits, the CDC goofed. They never "forbade" testing - with Trump ghaving previously abolished the pandemic response team there simply wasn't anyone with the authority to remove the bureaucratic hurdles meant to safeguard medical tests outside of emergencies.

      "Why has the CDC refused to release details of its Patient Zero?"

      Because they don't know that "patient zero" is, in fact, patient zero? Once again, incompetence isn't malice, even if it makes a good case for Gray's Law being applied in some cases.

      "What's going on?"

      A chinese troll named "Godfree" trying to make China out to be less evil and/or inept than the US by any and every means, including but not limited to trying to imply a zoonosis finally making the leap to humans coming from a Wuhan wet market has to be a US Bioweapon unleashed for...reasons, I guess.

      THAT is what's going on.

      At least this time around you kept it short and simple rather than building a wordwall around how China's state-controlled media is superior to an actual free press or how the ethnic cleansing going on in Xinjiang and Tibet really doesn't exist, or how the US would have incited world War 3 just because they'd be dumb and suicidal enough to muck around with bioweapons.

      Now toddle off and collect your half yuan. And while at it tell your bosses that hamfisted apologist propaganda only makes your nation look like Jar Jar Binks trying to weasel out of having been a blithering idiot. PR-wise you'd be better off just being honest because while Palpatine gets respect, the comic relief doesn't.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2020 @ 2:48am

        Re: Re: Top Secret?

        Under the US regime they are transnational terrorists from india, china, and elsewhere.

        Whoever assigned them to the US was trying to transfer ownership of sanctioned weapons systems that the US doesn't control so US transferred them back to the "communist" labor force that produced the weapons in Asia.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 15 May 2020 @ 1:39am

          Re: Re: Re: Top Secret?

          "...so US transferred them back to the "communist" labor force that produced the weapons in Asia."

          Doubling down on an already moronic conspiracy theory by adding a few multiples of idiocy to it doesn't improve its credibility. But I should have guessed that sooner rather than later some sock puppet would come along to help "Godfree" make his case.

          You are already at the point where a statement about how covid was a construction made by Hogwarts wizards is more plausible than hypothesis of the US trusting a cabal of foreign-national terrorists to transport an uncontrollable de facto WMD for absolutely no reason at all.

          When your conspiracy of choice involves everyone involved being paragons of utter stupidity AND with a death wish beyond the point of brain damage. And these feckless morons managing to pull of byzantine maneuvers likely to fail in every step...then it's time to bury that conspiracy theory.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 16 May 2020 @ 12:43am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Top Secret?

            Do you enjoy supporting foreign terrorist organizations?

            I don't really li aq supporters

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Uriel-238 (profile), 16 May 2020 @ 12:41pm

              "foreign terrorist organizations"

              You better watch yourself, Anonymous Coward. The current administration regards anyone who disagrees with them as a foreign terrorist organization. So the word may have a different meaning now than when Al-Qaeda was a significant threat.

              Considering the US drone strike program, the US is also a _foreign terrorist organization in those nations whose villages we like to raze.

              But remember, once they're done with the Communists, Trade Unionists and Jews, they'll come for you too.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 16 May 2020 @ 6:24pm

                Re: "foreign terrorist organizations"

                They still kill people.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Uriel-238 (profile), 16 May 2020 @ 8:11pm

                  "They still kill people."

                  More civilians die from US drone strikes than all the gun deaths in the United States, or, for that matter, from suicide bombings.

                  The US still kills people indiscriminately. US officials also eagerly label as terrorists people who have never killed at all, but are eager to publish material embarrassing to US officials.

                  Unless you are personally closely tied to US oligarchs, your snappy salute and lockstep march are only going to keep you alive for so long.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 16 May 2020 @ 11:44pm

                    Re: "They still kill people."

                    LOL not quite right....

                    Those lists kill more people than any other known organization.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                    • icon
                      Uriel-238 (profile), 17 May 2020 @ 11:02pm

                      "kill more people"

                      Those lists kill more people than any other known organization.

                      [asserts facts not in evidence]

                      Though, yes, to be fair, the US does not advertise its immense body count of noncombatants. We only hear about it after whistleblowers sacrifice themselves to make data public.

                      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                      • identicon
                        Anonymous Coward, 19 May 2020 @ 3:15am

                        Re: "kill more people"

                        I think you're some kind of .... special person.... that keeps blaming the US gov for the actions of a lawless foreign organization.

                        Hillary Clinton liked to call people useful idiots if they are actually useful somehow while doing that.

                        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                        • icon
                          Uriel-238 (profile), 19 May 2020 @ 11:42am

                          "lawless foreign organization"

                          I think you're some kind of .... special person

                          Yeah, I get that a lot. Typically from people who disagree with me but aren't willing to confront the facts...or research their facts.

                          blaming the US gov for the actions of a lawless foreign organization

                          The US legal system operates with stratified standards. Friends of the administration get light sentences where whistleblowers who expose federal wrongdoing serve longer than murderers. In the meantime those of us beneath the law are packed like warm bodies into private prisons with a 100.00% indictment rate and a 90% conviction rate. (And a per-capita incarceration rate higher than any other nation in the world.)

                          So we're not in any position to criticize other organizations for being lawless.

                          It sounds to me Anonymous Coward you've been toking a bit too much American exceptionalism. It's time to step out of your comfort zone.

                          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 16 May 2020 @ 7:28pm

                Re: "foreign terrorist organizations"

                The US is not listed at the UN as a sanctioned terrorist organization.

                I believe the thing that tried to have the US listed is now ISIL on the international terrorist lists. The thing that tried to have Israel listed is also ISIL.

                Go back to your foreign home country.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • icon
                  Uriel-238 (profile), 16 May 2020 @ 8:16pm

                  US listings.

                  Neither is China nor Russia, both who have body counts orders of magnitude more than our terrorist organizations.

                  Sadly, the US is my country of origin, and I expect I'll be relocated to its work camps in ten years as a dissenter. Maybe I'll be processed rather than starved.

                  But you'd better hope the Allies come to save us sooner than later. Fascism thrives by burning its fuel.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2020 @ 12:31am

                    Re: US listings.

                    Russia is not....

                    China is possibly one of the large ones but that might also be India....

                    It's impossible to tell from this continent which one of those 2 is our major enemy and which one is barely a friend. It's definitely inside both of them.

                    Thinking about it a long time won't help. It's physically impossible to tell from here.

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2020 @ 4:56pm

    Trump is now trying to blame China for anything. Look there . Don't look at the weak chaotic response to the crisis by the white house,
    This is a global crisis. The logical thing to do is to share data and research to any country that wants it
    China released data on the genetic info on the virus, it delayed admitting it was serous until 100,s of people got the virus. By the way the nsa is spying on every country in the world using malware or zero day hacks. When it comes to hacking America is not exactly innocent or totally in the right
    Its quite possible no one will make a vaccine for covid 19. But there may be medicines that slow it down or make it easier to treat the symptoms
    The most expensive drugs are made in America
    Government pays for research then a private company gets a patent and charges high prices for it
    Trump is in trouble in this crisis, time to blame China

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      David, 12 May 2020 @ 5:40am

      Re:

      China released data on the genetic info on the virus, it delayed admitting it was serous until 100,s of people got the virus. By the way the nsa is spying on every country in the world using malware or zero day hacks. When it comes to hacking America is not exactly innocent or totally in the right

      But America does not take unfair advantage of its spying capabilities. It is spying for amusement only. Its government and president scorn its intelligence agencies and prefer relying on what the WHO is able to relay from Chinese officials (the WHO does not have intelligence agencies at its disposal but depends on input from its members that do).

      That way, it is always somebody else's fault. It's the American way.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    VCRAGAIN, 12 May 2020 @ 4:54am

    c-19 vaccine

    The problem is the Vaccine corporations BEHIND the government in the US - this government is basically interested in helping one of their own to get the contracts, which will be multi-billions$ in volume - that is the problem !

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 6:56am

    "The US Trying To Keep COVID-19 Vaccine Data Locked Up"

    Your money or your life

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 7:03am

    What position will you hold at "American Edge", Mike?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 8:33am

    What evidence is there that the US is actually keeping virus data locked up? This could be nothing more than that say a government server that requires the bare minimum of vetting for medical professionals to access through a simple registration so that non-medical professionals don't go digging for data they don't understand and see something that justifies their belief that drinking bleach might work.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 9:06am

      Re:

      What evidence is there that the US is actually keeping virus data locked up?

      Have you followed your president on Twitter? Hell, he even tried to gain control over German efforts to produce a vaccine.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 9:20am

        Re: Re:

        You mean the Germany company that the German Government and parent company says Trump did that while the company itself says Trump didn't? Real reliable information you're working off of there.

        Compared to say... going to on scholar.google.com and finding tons of papers on or about vaccines from US sources which directly disproves the idea that the US is keeping a firm lockdown on any COVID-19 vaccine data.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 10:38am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Serious question:

          Why do you believe anything that comes out of the present administration? Upon what do you base your trust in them?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2020 @ 11:05am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            I originally asked what evidence exists to show this is a real problem beyond the assumption built on top of a throw-away sentence in a NYT article, what does that have to do with trusting the Trump administration on anything?

            In my last reply I even specifically left out the administrations/Trump's response to the situation with the German company just to avoid giving someone the ability to make the very assumption you're doing here. With that in mind, how in the hell do you think your "serious question' has any relevance or that I have any trust or belief in them/it?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    me, 12 May 2020 @ 2:34pm

    Some nifty "Fake News" for yer perusal.

    hehehhe - time for some comedy relief. :)

    Back to that Best Conspiracy of the Year plot folks.

    You see, the Corona Virus is actually the reworked weaponized Common Cold virus, developed by the USA, and tagged SARS - you remember that one.

    Well, the Chinese took it a step farther and super-weaponized it, but it got out, due to shoddy containment and voila, you have the new Corona Virus Pandemic.

    The reason the USA is keeping the research for a cure under wraps, is simply that a cure for SARS V2.0 would also be a cure for the Common Cold.

    Such a cure would wipe out one of the most lucrative bullshit industries in the world - the common cold pseudo-remedy industry. Billions of dollars would be lost permanently by the giant pharmo-corps. The US fed is just doing its real job - protecting the interest of US billionaires and US mega-corps - the investments of the members of the US federal government.

    Let's face it. Every Government on earth is a Capitalist Government, regardless of the politics it claims to support, or forces on its subjects. When they do something unusual, just follow the money trail for the rationalization behind the actions.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled entertainment information service. :)

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      David, 12 May 2020 @ 3:16pm

      Re: Some nifty "Fake News" for yer perusal.

      Let's face it. Every Government on earth is a Capitalist Government, regardless of the politics it claims to support, or forces on its subjects. When they do something unusual, just follow the money trail for the rationalization behind the actions.

      You are confusing "capitalism" with "greed". Capitalism is the doctrine that nothing channels human endeavors better than structuring society in a manner where the pursuit of greed as a fundamental motivating source is kept unbridled.

      The foremost duty of a capitalist government is to make everyone want to stuff their pockets. A government whose priority is foremost stuffing its own pockets is not as much capitalist but corrupt.

      Considering a nation capitalistic because it has a corrupt government is like considering a nation well-fed because its politicians are overweight.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Uriel-238 (profile), 12 May 2020 @ 3:50pm

      The coronavirus-is-a-weapon rumor

      It really annoyed me in the Wonder Woman movie that the big evil plan was a gas that got through gas masks. See, we have plenty of chemical agents in that not only circumvent gas masks, but such masks make it worse. The thing is not King Cnut nor Chancellor Bismark nor the President of the United States can command the wind.

      Yes, Bio-agents are criminal under international law. Yes, the US, Russia and China as well as a handful of other countries with disposable revenues to throw at secret bad-faith projects develop them. No, there is no evidence at all SARS-CoV-2 is an artificially cultivated bioagent. But there were rumors regarding bird flu, the swine flu, yellow fever, deng fever, Ebola, HIV and most major outbreaks. We want our plagues to be deliberate, to have a malicious agent and an purpose behind them, much the way we want an agent behind the universe.

      This isn't to say it is not a man-made bioagent, but it would be super daft of anyone to let it get released into the public, because it can't be controlled. Not King Cnut nor Chancellor Merkel nor the President of the United States can decide who gets infected and who doesn't.

      But then some people believe HAARP is behind our abundance of dangerous hurricanes last decade, and not the rising global average temperature.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 13 May 2020 @ 1:55am

        Re: The coronavirus-is-a-weapon rumor

        "This isn't to say it is not a man-made bioagent, but it would be super daft of anyone to let it get released into the public, because it can't be controlled. Not King Cnut nor Chancellor Merkel nor the President of the United States can decide who gets infected and who doesn't."

        Nor can any of the above guarantee it won't mutate into an even more lethal and less controllable form which is a nightmare scenario. If SARS-CoV-2 acquires true airborne infection OR a two-week incubation period with full infectivity, OR full zoonosis infection capability instead of partial...then we're ALL screwed in major ways.

        Bioweapons are, in fact, the equivalent of strapping a somewhat slow-acting suicide bomb belt around an entire nation and screaming "Banzai!" while pulling the trigger.

        To develop one or allow the development of one would have to mean either that the US has been run by a suicide cult for about a generation or that office holders in high position were all as dumb as Trump, or worse.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Uriel-238 (profile), 13 May 2020 @ 11:15am

          US Bioweapons

          The naughty business of the US was revealed during the 2001 anthrax attacks† which were rendered into an aerosolable powder (rather than clumping like flour or coffee) via a technique that was a US military secret at the time (I think it's something like tossing the powder through an extremely dessicated chamber. I've had fantasies of trying it with ground coffee for easier grind management.)

          Also it was once leaked from DARPA they were working on a form of highly-infectious bug with temporary dysentery-like symptoms (puking, diarrhea) that could render an army useless with a low mortality rate.

          But yes, we were able to rule out HIV as a military weapon because of the rate at which it mutates. The concern with SARS-CoV-2 is that it too is slippery and mutates too quickly to control. I believe this is our fear when it comes to autoimmunity and the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines.

          Note: I am not a biologist. (IANAB) I just read stuff.

          † The mail-anthrax attacks followed so close on the heels of the 9/11 attacks we thought they were related, and turbaned terrorist caricatures sometimes had bio-bombs instead of suicide vests or classic anarchist round bombs.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 15 May 2020 @ 1:49am

            Re: US Bioweapons

            "Note: I am not a biologist. (IANAB) I just read stuff."

            I'll add to that, then. Bacillus anthracis is a stable bacteria unlikely to spontaneously mutate significantly. Even using relatively stable organisms as pathogens it doesn't change the fact that the biowarfare concept - the "poor man's nuke" - is just too suicidal for any intelligent person to try to properly weaponize.
            That is not to say that the US never had such programs. They did, if for no other reason than researching the likely weapons they might find coming out of some poorer and more desperate country...like Iraq, at the time.

            Viruses in general, however, are completely uncontrollable. To seriously consider using any such you truly do need suicide cultists in charge.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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