The Gaming Platform Wars Are Beginning To Screw Up Crowdfunding Games

from the collateral-damage dept

We've talked a great deal of late about Epic Games' kicking off a PC gaming platform war with Steam through its own Epic Store. What the whole thing comes down to is that the Epic Store offers game publishers a revenue split that takes away half as much revenue from the publisher compared with Steam, coupled with a program for gobbling up 6 to 12 month exclusivity deals on many games that keep them off of Steam during that time period entirely. While Valve responded saying this would hurt gamers, and much of the public appeared to agree, Epic's Tim Sweeney has twice now spoken publicly about his plans, while also stating that what Epic is really after is a better gaming marketplace and to get Steam to increase its own revenue splits, promising to end the exclusivity program if its rival does so.

Many of our readers have noticed that I'm somewhat open to Epic's strategy here, although I'm not certainly buying into it fully. Many of those same readers have rightfully pointed out that, whatever Epic's longterm goals, the platform wars still aren't good for the gaming public in the immediate. They're absolutely right about that and one perfect example of how platform wars and exclusivity deals can hurt fans of PC games has shown up in the form of Shenmue 3.

Shenmue 3 was launched via a Kickstarter campaign way back in 2015. Like any Kickstarter campaign, there were different tiers by which one could support the product. Many of those tiers included day 1 Steam keys as a reward for supporting the game's creation. Then this happened:

Last month, the makers of Shenmue III announced that the game will be a timed exclusive to the Epic Store on PC, a move that angered quite a few people who had helped crowdfund the game. After all, when Shenmue III first launched on Kickstarter in June 2015, the developers had offered Steam keys as a reward option. When the game comes out in November of this year, however, Steam keys won’t actually be available. It’ll be on Steam in November 2020.

Those who backed Shenmue III in 2015 and wanted Steam keys for their efforts have a few options. One is to take an Epic Store key. Another is to switch platforms. A third is to get a Steam key one year after launch, once the exclusivity window is up. And a fourth, the developers said today, is to get a refund.

On one hand, yes, the developer is offering a refund to backers for its inability to actually deliver on the day 1 Steam keys it promised. That same developer has also announced, however, that tiers that backed the creation of certain gameplay elements within the game cannot be given a full refund since the gamemakers did in fact deliver on those gameplay elements. That obviously sucks for the Steam gamer: great, you made the thing in the game I wanted you to make, but I cannot play it where I play my games because you're not giving me the Steam key you promised me at the time you promised it.

And, on a higher level, it would be entirely understandable for a backer of this project that only wants to use Steam to say something along the lines of, "Screw you entirely you damned liars." After all, the game developer entered into an exclusivity deal with Epic having already made a Kickstarter deal with the actual backers of the game. That's pretty shitty.

And, of course, those who want a refund don't even have a way to get one... yet.

More details on how to get a refund “will be announced in a following update,” the developers said, although they also warned backers that if they picked one of the tiers including in-game content that’s already been implemented into the game, a full refund won’t be available.

So whichever side you take in Epic's declaration of war on Steam, it cannot be denied that there won't be collateral damage.

Filed Under: crowdfunding, platform wars, shenmue 3, steam keys, video games
Companies: epic, valve


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  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 2 Jul 2019 @ 6:23pm

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me- how many times now?

    And, on a higher level, it would be entirely understandable for a backer of this project that only wants to use Steam to say something along the lines of, "Screw you entirely you damned liars." After all, the game developer entered into an exclusivity deal with Epic having already made a Kickstarter deal with the actual backers of the game. That's pretty shitty.

    Oh but it gets worse for crowdfunding, since Shenmue 3 is not the first game to pull a last minute bait-and-switch like this, and after a few times you can be sure that people are going to be much more hesitant to back a game since there's no way to know whether it too will be snapped up and made exclusive.

    Epic may think they're just screwing Steam via bribes for exclusives, but by snapping up crowdfunded games that were advertised as coming to Steam they are in fact undermining the trust of potential backers for future games, such that it's entirely possible(and I'd say likely) that 'investment' in future games will take a notable hit from people who don't want to risk being forced to use their garbage platform if they back a game that goes exclusive.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 12:58am

      Re: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me- how many times now?

      That's most likely. I've personally funded a few projects but got burned when one movie I funded was sold off to traditional distributors who decided that I'd no longer get the BluRay I paid for since I'm not in the US. The process took several years and I've still not seen the end product. I've not funded much since then.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Thad (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 8:25am

      Re: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me- how many times now?

      Yeah, my approach to crowdfunding at this point is to only support projects where at least one of the following is true:

      1. The project creator has done this before and has delivered. Ideally more than once.
      2. The work is already complete and they're just raising money to print and distribute it.
      3. The rewards include items that are already complete and ready to go, so even if the project is never completed, I'll still get my money's worth out of the backer rewards.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Samuel Abram (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 1:07pm

        Re: Re: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me- how many times now?

        The thing about Crowdfunding is that the backers must have the patience of a saint. I have been burned before (meaning, the project creator failed to deliver what they promised), but I've only been screwed-or the project creator was unable to deliver–four or five times (this does not count projects where the end project sucked but still delivered the goods, such as Mighty No. 9). The rest have been fulfilled. I realize there are risks with crowdfunding, but considering that most of the time we got stuff we never would've got otherwise (such as Mystery Science Theater 3000 coming back sans DRM!!) I think Kickstarter has been a net boon as opposed to a curse.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Thad (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 2:19pm

          Re: Re: Re: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me- how many times

          MST3K is a good example of a case where the digital goodies tier was worth the price of admission. Even if things had somehow imploded and the show had never gotten made (which was unlikely; Joel had already worked out the cast, crew, and writers and had a reasonable breakdown of what the costs would be), the classic episode downloads I got were worth the price of my contribution in and of themselves.

          Rifftrax's annual Kickstarter is similar -- they don't typically have the same kind of screaming deals that the MST3K Kickstarter did, but you can usually get a bunch of shorts for just a buck.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Châu, 5 Jul 2019 @ 5:29pm

        Re: Re: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me- how many times now?

        Also, I only give money if have free culture license CC0, CC-BY and if computer game, require open source with source store in public access place during project. I will never give money if have monopoly against me.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Rob, 2 Jul 2019 @ 9:01pm

    Beginning?

    How many have reneged on a no DRM promise and throw on Steam. SSDC.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 2 Jul 2019 @ 9:52pm

    I would point out the revenue split isn't the main reason why publishers are taking exclusive deals with Epic. (Funny enough it only seems to be Steams 30% cut which is a problem and not everyone else who also takes the industry standard cut)

    Instead it is the fact that Epic are giving them piles of money - either upfront or guaranteeing them a certain amount of sales over the first year.

    Case in point Epic are the ones who are paying for the refunds for this (the money they gave the Phoenix Point Devs also covered the $2m they raised from backers) and that is on top of whatever money they promised Deep Silver for the game to switch to Epic.

    So Valve could cut Steam's cut to 10% tomorrow (well they won't because even Epic admitted the 18% cut isn't sustainable) and it won't make any difference due to the other payments Epic are making for exclusives.

    Also are Epic really the people we want breaking Steam's 'Monopoly' we already had a competitive PC gaming marketplace without Epic, instead Epic are making the place less competitive and their end goal seems to be they want to be the only place you can obtain PC games, and have already been throwing their weight around more in the last six months than Valve have over the last 15 years.

    The reason why Steam is the dominant platform is because over the years they have had the best platform and pretty much saved PC Gaming when other retailers and publishers abandoned it for consoles, and at no point have Valve actually taken advantage of their dominant position to kill the competition and are happy to co-exist with them, can the same be said about Epic? For example Epic have done more to kill off the likes of GOG, GMG and HumbleBundle in the last six months than Steam ever did.

    It's also not like consumers will ever see the benefits of this lower cut - just look at the likes of EA and Activation their games are exclusive to their platforms where they keep 100% of the money and they are the two most hated publishers around.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 4:25am

      Re:

      For example Epic have done more to kill off the likes of GOG, GMG and HumbleBundle in the last six months than Steam ever did.

      How do you figure?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 9:25am

        Re: Re:

        Can't release an exclusive on GOG can you?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 10:18am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Yes you can. Why couldn't you?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Madd the Sane (profile), 6 Jul 2019 @ 8:36pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Because doing so would be a breach of contract.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Samuel Abram (profile), 7 Jul 2019 @ 1:14pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              How is a game contractually obligated to Steam? Epic, I can see. Not releasing a game on Steam doesn't make any business sense, but is Valve really pulling those kinds of stunts when they don't really need to?

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 8 Jul 2019 @ 6:29am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              This makes zero sense. Why couldn't the developer/publisher of a game say "I'm going to release my game exclusively on GOG"? Unless they are already in a contract with another platform (Epic, Steam, etc...) that says any games they release can't be exclusives on any other platforms, there is literally nothing stopping them from doing this.

              That said, are we potentially talking about different things here? I'm talking about just releasing games in general, but are you talking about one of the games that's already gotten an exclusive release on Epic? Because in that scenario, yes, you're probably right. If they already have an agreement to release an exclusive on Epic's storefront, then turn around and release it GOG, yes that would be a breach of contract. But that doesn't mean their next game they couldn't release on GOG as an exclusive.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 12:05pm

        Re: Re:

        Several of the games that have gone Epic exclusive were set to be released on GOG before Epic snatched them, similarly most Steam releases can be bought via the likes of GMG and Humble and so far the only Epic exclusive that can be bought on their stores is Borderlands 3.

        In addition to that Steam likely have the resources to hold out against Epic purchasing all the new games, the other stores aren't likely to last that long if they have no new releases to sell for the next year or so.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 12:22pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          And how does a small handful of titles being delayed from day-one release on those platforms constitute "killing off those platforms"?

          The reason why people like GOG is because all the games on their platform are DRM free. That's a huge selling point for a lot of people. As far as I know, Epic doesn't offer that, in fact I'm not aware of any other games storefront that does. And while GOG users might have to wait 6 months to a year before the game becomes available, to users who value DRM-less games that's an easy trade off.

          Similar arguments go for Humble. People buy on Humble because of their insane price deals, donations to charity, and monthly game pass subscription. Not many other game stores do that, definitely not Epic. So far Epic's sale prices haven't been much to write home about from what I've seen.

          So in all of that, how has Epic been killing off these other platforms when it doesn't even offer the same things that people like those other platforms for?

          GMG I don't

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 12:24pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            sigh Hit enter to soon.

            GMG I don't know what they offer as I've never heard of them before and haven't used them.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Samuel Abram (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 12:55pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            The reason why people like GOG is because all the games on their platform are DRM free. That's a huge selling point for a lot of people. As far as I know, Epic doesn't offer that, in fact I'm not aware of any other games storefront that does.

            Have you heard of itch.io? It's also completely DRM-free!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Toom1275 (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 8:26pm

        Re: Re:

        Copying an excerpt of a good explanation by user vlam on Ars Technica

        Going forward into 2018, GOG became a quaint little shop with a plucky attitude and very consumer friendly tactics for gaining customers. I know I first got into GOG when they offered fallout 1+2 completely free. Not even with purchase, just plain free. They continued these free game giveaways, free games during sales if you spent $X, and of course, their fair pricing promise. The company legitimately gave you money back into your GOG wallet if a game was unfairly priced in your region due to publisher bullshit. They even stated that there were cases where they straight up lost money on some purchases, but were able to continue to offer the program because they were still profitable overall.

        Yet since Epic launched their store, GOG had to scale back what they charge publishers to sell the games. The fair price program was canned, as they could no longer afford to do it, and the promos during their sales have greatly declined. Very clear, very visible consumer friendly programs are gone as a consequence of lowering their fees. And I would also point out that GOG just sells games. They don't provide multiplayer servers or have a fully fledged community platform. Their discovery tools are next to nonexistent. They don't have things like big picture mode and they don't provide hardware support (controllers). GOG ran a store on selling games without drm, packaging those games so they'd run on current systems, and great customer programs. And by cutting back on their listing fees, they already can't afford to continue providing some of these programs, nevermind fully implemented multiplayer (or cross platform multiplayer) or enticing freebies.

        And from a post by Yarrum

        Most third-party sites that sold Steam (and uplay, Origin etc..) keys compete on price with these discounts coming from their part of the 30% cut, GMG for example generally offer 20% discounts on most pre-orders drop their cut to 12% and they won't be able to do that, similar for humblebundle though they offer discount if you subscribe to their bundle but they also pass some of their cut onto charity they cannot do that with a 12% cut either (as shown by the fact that neither apply if you buy Borderlands 3), same for GOG they have had to lower their cut which means they got rid of their fair price policy (which gave you store credit if your regional price was higher than the US price). There is also the fact that GOG have lost several new releases which went Epic exclusive, whilst the likes of Humble and GMG have to beg for Epic keys (I think Borerlands 3 is the only Epic game that is sold on these sites?).

        So far each of the games that have gone Epic exclusive after being on pre-order elsewhere (Metro and Ubisoft games) have ended up with higher prices after going Epic exclusive.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Jajo (profile), 2 Jul 2019 @ 11:15pm

    This is some Prentiss McCabe shit!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 1:18am

    As someone who just wants to play the games, I don't really get the issue.

    The game will still run on the same PC. It's not like I need to buy a whole new console because the developers have now suddenly walked back on a multiple platform promise.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      PaulT (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 1:41am

      Re:

      There's several issues:

      First is the bait and switch nature. It doesn't matter if it's a fundamental change or a trivial one, it's still changing the nature of what people agreed to paid for long after they paid for it. Imagine if you agreed to buy a new car and it came in blue when you asked for white. A fairly trivial change all considered, but you'd still complain about the delivered product.

      Second is needing to use another client to use and download the game. Most PC gamers already have several on their machines, with all the related performance issues, security issues etc. Putting yet another on your PC for no other reason than people are buying games away from the companies you already use.

      Third is the general crappy design of Epic's product. They didn't so much as have a basket on their site, forcing gamers to buy one at a time, then blocked people who did that for making too many purchases. That's not someone you're generally going to be comfortable with having credit cards stored and software running on your PC.

      Fourth is OS access. Steam are committed to making sure as much as possible runs cross-platform. Epic don't support Linux at all. Whether or not that was applicable to this specific game, people prefer to fund companies they agree with.

      Then the final issue is that people don't want this to be the future. They want to use a Steam that allows them to play & download everything they want, or a GoG which offers a curated DRM free service. They don't want an Epic, where you're forced to use them even though they have a horrible service, because you're given no choice.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 4 Jul 2019 @ 12:50am

        Re: Re:

        I understand what you mean.

        Bait and switch is a shitty thing to do, when promised. I guess future crowdfundings will likely word their rewards in a more neutral fashion.

        The Epic Store is still quite new, and looking at their roadmap, they are planning new features. I think it's a good thing that Steam has competiton. It might stir up some movement.

        As far as "platform wars" go, though, I think it's pretty petty.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          PaulT (profile), 4 Jul 2019 @ 1:34am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "The Epic Store is still quite new, and looking at their roadmap, they are planning new features."

          That's a little too kind IMHO. Some of the features they're missing are basic elements that any kind of online store should have at bare minimum. We're not talking about advanced features here. The site as it is right now barely represents a beta product. Yes, they may be working on some killer features down the road - but, then, keep the product in private beta until it's finished the basic ones, at least.

          "I think it's a good thing that Steam has competiton. It might stir up some movement."

          Steam already has competition - GoG, uPlay, Origin, the XBox app on PC, etc. There's certainly room for more, and if this was a new player offering to compete on features, community, catalog curation, anything then this would be a positive move. Instead, they're competing on "we will make it so that you can't legally buy the game you want anywhere else". That is not competition, and not a good thing.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 2:08am

    I still don't understand how they can't refund those they refuse to refund when bait and switch is a crime.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 2:57am

    This developer has just shot themselves in the foot. Now a significant number of gamers hate them. They won't be able to make a Shenmue IV or some other game.

    Gamers will probably pirate the game as a result too, and I'm sure the developers will be all too happy to cry about the effect piracy had on their sales.

    And as pointed out in the headlines (but not really in the story), here's another reason why you shouldn't crowdfund or back an unfinished product. Which will just screw things up for the next game that does want to deliver on their promises.

    If you want people to buy it, you make the release as widely available as possible. Better to get a 70% cut from Steam than a 0% cut from piracy.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 5:52am

    "they also warned backers that if they picked one of the tiers including in-game content that’s already been implemented into the game, a full refund won’t be available."

    They backed a game that was supposed to have implemented Steam Keys at release and y'all don't seem to have a problem taking that away.

    Well you funded content we added & we totally lied about your rewards b/c we got a better deal so fsck you.
    I foresee a game studio going down in flames.
    Its bad enough that backing something on kickstarter sometimes screws you, but to change something promised well after it closed is bullshit.

    They want it both ways...
    We won't give you what we promised, but because you promised we could use your money to add things you can't have it back.

    DJ KALID Played Yourself . gif

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    crade (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 7:38am

    "since the gamemakers did in fact deliver on those gameplay elements"

    "For 2$, you can have a coffee and for another 2$ I'll put whip cream and chocolate in it."

    "Sorry, I drank your coffee.. You can have your 2$ back.. but I did put whip cream and chocolate in it, so that part you can't have back"

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    crade (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 8:04am

    Nothing pushed them to renege, they just decided something better came along and they would be better off reneging and that honouring the agreement wasn't a priority. The damage is entirely inflicted by the developer, not collateral from Epic/Steam.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      crade (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 9:26am

      Re:

      I take it back.. I did not realize that Epic does have some actual leverage over developers that use unreal engine and it seems they may be willing to use it in "unofficial" ways.. Like waiving the big license fees for the engine (or cracking down on the fine print so you suddenly have new fees you didn't expect and can't handle) and providing extra or withholding their engine support based on whether you agree to be exclusive or not..

      I would avoid new games using unreal engine if to steer clear of this in the future.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 8:08am

    it cannot be denied that there won't be collateral damage

    Double-negative there reads as "it can be denied that there will be collateral damage".

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Zof (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 8:09am

    There's Really Only One Side If You Are A Gamer

    Just saying. There's aren't two sides unless you are a game company.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Thad (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 8:20am

    it cannot be denied that there won't be collateral damage.

    ...you...might want to give a second pass to your triple-negative there. It means the opposite of what you intended it to mean.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    tom (profile), 3 Jul 2019 @ 8:48am

    Wonder how long it will be before one of the gaming networks start 'accidentally' interfering with the operation of competing networks by preempting/ blocking certain network ports on the end user's PC? All in the name of better client performance or security?

    This is turning into another case of be careful what you wish for you might get it. A lot of folks wanted alternatives to Steam. Now you have them.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 9:00am

      Re:

      Wonder how long it will be before one of the gaming networks start 'accidentally' interfering with the operation of competing networks by preempting/ blocking certain network ports on the end user's PC?

      Unless said "gaming networks" start including firewalls with their game/store clients that disable the Windows firewall and/or uninstall any other third party firewalls you may have installed (which would be immediately noticed and the backlash would be swift and fierce), then the answer would be never.

      This is turning into another case of be careful what you wish for you might get it. A lot of folks wanted alternatives to Steam. Now you have them.

      Alternatives to Steam are not necessarily bad. GOG is an excellent alternative. Your example of what "could" happen is not based in anything resembling reality since it ignores the basics of how computers work and what would be required to "preempt/block" ports on a personal PC.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 11:04am

    How about a no-stupid-fscking-platform copy, then? Because screw these middlemen.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Shmerl, 3 Jul 2019 @ 11:18am

    Epic are disgusting

    Trapping crowdfunded games with exclusivity smells similar to MS swallowing up crwowdfunding friendly studios like inXile, Obsidian and Compulsion. Same disgusting attack on gaming and gamers' choice.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 11:29am

    remember

    Remember when there were no exclusives when it came to PC gaming?
    Pepperidge Farms remembers
    You don't own digital 'copies' of games anyway unless it's from Green Man Gaming, amirite?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anon, 3 Jul 2019 @ 9:34pm

    Bought out?

    Its weird knowing techdirt to slam bad behavior pretty quick but odd to see such articles were its neutral at best when talking about Epic.

    EGS isn't a good alternitive nor is it even a featured platform. Short term long term it doesn't matter this is shitty for gamers and shitty for devs who lose sales as a result of people speaking with their wallets.

    ''Open to the ideabut not sold on it"

    What idea? Creating console style 3rd party exclusives?

    It seems techdirt is losing its touch.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 9:41pm

      Re: Grudge much?

      You might try re-reading the articles they've been writing about before you start grinding that axe you're nursing. They've said several times that Epic's behavior is downright crap.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        That One Guy (profile), 4 Jul 2019 @ 4:04am

        Not really. Off the top of my head of the articles covering Epic this is probably the 'harshest' treatment it's gotten, as past articles have tended to give them the silk-glove treatment and given them way more benefit of the doubt than they deserve or other companies have gotten on TD in the past.

        TD's generally good at rightly being skeptical of statements put out by companies and execs of those companies, but to date that same standard has not really been applied to Epic, so I can totally see where they are coming from.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 3 Jul 2019 @ 9:43pm

      Re: Grudge x2

      Not to mention, this entire article is all about how this is all negatively affecting gamers. You really need to actually read the article before claiming it says something that it doesn't.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    excelr43 (profile), 4 Jul 2019 @ 12:05am

    MACHINE LEARNING COURSE

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  • identicon
    Just another one, 19 Jul 2019 @ 9:41am

    Lies

    Everyone is forgetting that Shenmue 3 were promising Blueray/DVD copies of the games as well. And now backers who payed extra cash to get those rewards will get nothing, just a blank disc with EGS code for the game.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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