Primatologist Tells Court That Macaque Monkeys Are, Like, Super Smart, So They Should Totally Get Copyrights

from the oh-really-now? dept

The case of the monkey selfie keeps getting weirder and weirder. I’m not going to rehash the whole damn story again — just click the monkey selfie link above and scroll through the posts. Here’s the super short version though: A British photographer named David Slater left his camera on the ground in an Indonesian jungle, where a macaque monkey (which we’re now, much later, told is named Naruto, though there’s some dispute over this) approached the camera and took a selfie. There were all sorts of debates online about whether or not there was any copyright in the photo and, if so, who owned it, with Slater repeatedly insisting that he did (and occasionally having representatives threaten us). A few years later, out of the blue came PETA, claiming that it represented the monkey (Naruto) and was suing Slater for copyright infringement for publishing a book with the photos. A judge, rightly, tossed out the lawsuit, pointing out (as we had argued from the very beginning) that a monkey has no right to a copyright, and the law only applies to human persons. PETA and its actually well-known and until now mostly respected law firm, Irell & Manella, have appealed the ruling.

And, now, believe it or not, PETA has gotten a primatologist and apparent “macaque expert” named Agustin Fuentes to file an amicus brief supporting the idea that a macaque monkey taking a selfie should hold the copyright in the image. Fuentes may be a macaque expert, but he’s not much of a copyright expert… and it shows. The brief mainly focuses on how smart macaque monkeys are, as evidence that being smart somehow means it deserves the copyright.

Naruto, like other macaques, had likely made the connection between manipulation of the camera as an item and the sound of the shutter and the changing image in the lens as the shutter clicked. This may have been interesting for Naruto as he was noted as performing this behavior many times. It is likely that he had seen the human manipulation of the camera and heard the sounds it made and, as is common for macaques, became curious to investigate it on his own. This in no way assumes Naruto had any cognizance of the concept of a photograph but rather that the actions and noises made by the camera were enticing and that through explorative manipulation Naruto was able to cause the camera to make such sounds/actions. Naruto intentionally engaged in interactions with the camera.

That’s all nice and stuff, but is has fuck all to do with the question of copyright. The purpose of copyright is to provide the incentives to create works so that the public can enjoy them. It’s the intent of copyright to create a limited monopoly such that the author of the work can use that artificial monopoly to earn money for some period of time, and those profits help incentivize the creation.

Yet here, Fuentes basically admits that it’s not the copyright that’s the incentive here, but the neat clicking sound and what happens when the shutter is pressed.

Particularly relevant for this case, macaques can frequently understand basic correlations between acts of object manipulation and specific results. There is no question that macaques manipulate material objects with an expectation of specific outcomes. They understand, for example, that by hitting snail shells with rocks, they can crack open and retrieve the snail. Naruto?s behavior in creating the photographs in dispute is consistent with a macaque?s interest in and capacity for sophisticated object manipulation. Naruto certainly understood that he was intentionally engaged in actions with an object that was stimulating. He could recognize the association between his actions and the shutter movement and sound. These photographs are not the result of an accident; they result from specific and intentional manipulation of the camera by Naruto.

Again, even if true, that means absolutely nothing for the copyright question. The laws apply to people, not to animals, unless expressly written that way. That’s a basic tenet of the law. The only weak attempt to tie this back to the copyright question is basically Fuentes and his lawyer arguing that “the law changes based on new data.”

Some of the Supreme Court?s most significant modern decisions have hinged, at least in part, on attempts to understand emerging science and empirical data.

This is also true… but irrelevant. It absolutely does not matter. And, on top of that, he’s introducing no new “science” here other than “macaque monkeys are smart.” So what? That has no bearing on whether or not a monkey gets a copyright — to which the answer is as pretty definitive: Hell no.

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Comments on “Primatologist Tells Court That Macaque Monkeys Are, Like, Super Smart, So They Should Totally Get Copyrights”

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67 Comments
That One Guy (profile) says:

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, and Incentivize the Creation of Random Noises..."

He could recognize the association between his actions and the shutter movement and sound. These photographs are not the result of an accident; they result from specific and intentional manipulation of the camera by Naruto.

Even assuming for the sake of argument that they expert is right, that the actions were intentional, the fact remains that the ‘intent’ as described by said expert was not to create a picture, but rather to make noise. Press button, get noise.

Given the purpose behind copyright is to provide incentive to create more works(pictures, music or otherwise), rather than create more camera clicks, even after giving this argument far more weight than it deserves it still fails to explain why the monkey deserves a copyright over the photo in question.

If the point of the monkey’s action was to create noise it would have likely done the same thing with a completely dead and/or broken camera so long as it made the same noise. Copyright had nothing to do with it’s motivation and a more ‘expansive’ copyright wouldn’t have had any impact on it’s actions.

DannyB (profile) says:

Re: But Macaque Monkeys need to get paid!

Forget about progress of the arts and science. Isn’t copyright all about making sure artists get paid?

Without copyright, how would macaque monkeys get paid? And thus what incentive would they have to create additional copyrightable works?

And please don’t argue about artistry or creativity of macaque monkeys. The creative works of macaque monkeys are at least on a par with most of what Hollywood churns out.

Not only wouldn’t the macaque monkeys get paid, but neither would the monopolist gatekeepers who exploit and represent them. Just like with other artists and creators.

Without the income from copyright, how would macaque monkeys enjoy the finer things in life?

Shmerl says:

Re: Re: But Macaque Monkeys need to get paid!

Without copyright, how would macaque monkeys get paid? And thus what incentive would they have to create additional copyrightable works?

I wonder how copyright views the outcome the Infinite monkey theorem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
Would some work comparable to Shakespeare and produced that way be copyrightable? And more interestingly, would it infringe on others’ work if it’s close enough?

To take it from comical, to more piratical realm, let’s say you have a program / artificial intelligence which makes creative works. Is AI a person? And are those works copyrightable / infringing on others?

Chort says:

Re: Re: Re:2 "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, and Incentivize the Creation of Random Noises..."

Lock who up? The monkey? Or the camera owner? You did not specify.

The monkey.

But maybe the camera owner too, for aiding and abetting theft by leaving the camera where the monkey could get it. If they’re going to lock people for secondary liability in criminal copyright infringement, then why not?

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, and Incentivize the Creation of Random Noises..."

Lock who up? The monkey? Or the camera owner?

Yes. Can’t be too careful after all, who knows what that monkey might get up to, and with the camera owner’s history of negligently facilitating grant theft camera everyone is probably safer if he’s behind bars as well.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, and Incentivize the Creation of Random Noises..."

The sad thing is that this being the 21st century, 21st century police would very well lock up both anyway, and it would still be considered clear. Even in the face of video evidence proving otherwise.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Does the opposite apply?

A legal correlation between copyright and intelligence would be devastating to the music industry. And I’m not absolutely confident that the movie industry would fare well either.

But all that doesn’t doesn’t matter. Pure self-interest will force politicians to disallow such a notion.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Wait a sec...

If we get a precedent that the law has to take into account levels of intelligence, given how often there seems to be politicians and other public figures completely ignorant of what they’re saying you could argue that their lack of intelligence means that they should have no say and no vote.

Changed my mind, go Team Monkey!

Anonymous Coward says:

Still confused.

Would still like to know how PETA can claim they represent the monkey…. Shouldn’t they be able to show a signed legal agreement to represent or transfer rights kind of like an author would have with their publisher?

Isn’t this exactly the type of shenanigans that got some of the Prenda folks into trouble? Claiming to represent people that they don’t…..

Anonymous Coward says:

PETA needs to face criminal sanctions for 1) pretending to be lawyers and 2) pretending to represent a monkey that in no way shape or form signed any sort of legal representation papers

Hell, the monkey didn’t even go through a psych evaluation to see if it should have a carer given power of attorney over it’s financial affairs…

Anonymous Coward says:

You all realize BTW that PETA doesn’t really exist?

They’re a corporate front designed to show ‘outrage’ to get cheap publicity.

They were paid millions by Nintendo to get ‘outraged’ by Cookin’ Mama when it was released.

Again paid large sums of money by McDonalds when they introduced the ‘big tasty burger’ in the UK….

the list goes on and on. 100% fake organization only there to try to get some column inches in the news….

David says:

If the monkey gets copyright..

There needs to be a court appointed advocate that insures that PETA doesn’t steal all the money for their own purposes rather than for the benefit of the monkey. Since that’s what it’s really about. I would suggest the trusties of the preserve where Naruto lives, and make sure PETA doesn’t embezzle a dime from the little guy.

Sambo (profile) says:

its only going to get worse

At the Royal Melbourne Zoo (Australia), for intelligence studies the resident Orangutan’s have been given a bunch of things to play with including Ipads with specially designed interactive games.

One of the females, Kiani has a thing for selfies. She loves both taking them and looking at the results. Vanity is clearly not just a human trait

So yes, there a literally hundreds of monkey selfies out there.

Cue the Lawyers!

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