Details Of How The Paris Attacks Were Carried Out Show Little Effort By Attackers To Hide Themselves

from the but-we-blame-encryption? dept

On Friday, the Wall Street Journal's Stacy Meichtry and Joshua Robinson published an in-depth bit of reporting on the planning and operational setup of the Paris attackers, revealing a bunch of previously unknown details. The key thing, however, isn't just the total lack of anything that looks like sophisticated encryption, but the opposite. The attackers basically did nothing to hide themselves, communicating out in the open, booking houses and cars in their real names, despite some of them being on various terrorist watch lists. It discusses how Brahim Abdeslam booked a house using an online website (Homelidays -- a French service that is similar to Airbnb, though it predates Airbnb by a lot), using his own name. So did his brother, Salah Abdeslam, who booked a hotel for a bunch of the attackers (using his real name) on Booking.com.

The piece mentions, as we noted earlier, that the attackers appeared to communicate via unencrypted SMS. It also mentions how the guy who planned the attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, bragged about his plans in ISIS's English-language glossy magazine months ago. Again, you'd think that this would alert the intelligence community to actually watch the guy, but again it appears he did little to hide his movements or communications.

In fact, the report notes that after Abaaoud shot up a restaurant, he went back to check out the aftermath of the attacks that he had helped put together -- and kept his mobile phone with him the whole time, making it easy to track his whereabouts:
An hour after Mr. Abaaoud finished shooting up restaurants, he emerged from a metro station in the 12th district, according to data police pulled from his cellphone. He headed west toward the sound of sirens, his path zigzagging as he returned to the scene of his crimes.

For two hours after the massacre ended, prosecutors say, Mr. Abaaoud surveyed his handiwork, at one point blending in with panicked crowds and bloodied victims streaming from the Bataclan
You can read the entire thing and note that, nowhere does the word "encryption" appear. There is no suggestion that these guys really had to hide very much at all.

So why is it that law enforcement and the intelligence community (and various politicians) around the globe are using the attacks as a reason to ban or undermine encryption? Again, it seems pretty clear that it's very much about diverting blame for their own failures. Given how out in the open the attackers operated, the law enforcement and intelligence community failed massively in not stopping this. No wonder they're grasping at straws to find something to blame, even if it had nothing to do with the attacks.

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  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 1:48am

    "It's not our fault we had too much hay to sift through to find them in time! Completely unrelated, we need more hay."

    Given how out in the open the attackers operated, the law enforcement and intelligence community failed massively in not stopping this. No wonder they're grasping at straws to find something to blame, even if it had nothing to do with the attacks.

    Which makes those using the attacks for their own gains reprehensible for two reasons. They're using tragedy for their own gain in trying to get even more power than they already have, as well as trying to shift the blame for their own incompetence onto something they would really like to see crippled, despite the fact that it had nothing to do with their failure.

    They failed, and it's entirely possible that a big reason for that is that their voyeuristic obsession meant that they had too much junk info to sort through to spot the important bits in time. Rather than admit that though, or even admit that they failed at all, they double down, and insist that their failure means that people should be made even less safe, as though that would make things better for anyone but them and other criminals that don't have badges.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:45am

      Re: "It's not our fault we had too much hay to sift through to find them in time! Completely unrelated, we need more hay."

      so you think getting :

      -special unconstitutional powers
      -state of emergency
      -declaration of war
      -military arm into middle east oil paradise

      is a failure?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        That One Guy (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:01am

        Re: Re: "It's not our fault we had too much hay to sift through to find them in time! Completely unrelated, we need more hay."

        They failed in their stated goals, that of preventing such attacks, exposing the justification of 'We need to spy on everyone in order to protect you' as complete crap. They had the needed information, those responsible weren't even trying to hide, and all the indiscriminate mass-spying did absolutely nothing to stop them, and if it can't stop people that incompetent, then clearly the programs are useless and need to be shut down.

        If they can't even catch people who take no real security precautions, the idea that they would do any better against those that do is a joke without a punchline.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:16am

          Re: Re: Re: "It's not our fault we had too much hay to sift through to find them in time! Completely unrelated, we need more hay."

          "They failed in their stated goals... clearly the programs are useless and need to be shut down."

          so you think the "stated" goals of the cop/spy are flat lie BUT the goals of the spying programs are sincere?

          the goal of the spying program is to gather enough information to legally destroy/crush anyone that raises his voice against the system

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            orbitalinsertion (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 3:27pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: "It's not our fault we had too much hay to sift through to find them in time! Completely unrelated, we need more hay."

            Thank you for this astonishing insight into how things really work. I see you have more equally valuable insights below.

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        • icon
          tqk (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 9:17am

          Re: Re: Re: "It's not our fault we had too much hay to sift through to find them in time! Completely unrelated, we need more hay."

          If they can't even catch people who take no real security precautions, the idea that they would do any better against those that do is a joke without a punchline.

          Yes, and we should be beating our elected representatives' doors down demanding to know why heads aren't rolling! For these incompetent "security professionals" to now be attempting to deflect their failure somewhere (anywhere!) else is pretty damning.

          They weren't even trying, and it shows damningly! They sat on their hands with billions of dollars worth of taxpayer funded toys, surfing pr0n, buying Xmas gifts on Ebay, and demanding everybody else bend over so they had a decent chance of winning this, but they weren't even trying to use the tools they already had.

          I want to see lots of heads rolling when incompetence like this shows up this glaringly. People died because they were lazy. That's inexcusable.

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    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 11:12am

      Re: "It's not our fault we had too much hay to sift through to find them in time! Completely unrelated, we need more hay."

      It is getting hard not to see these people who use any kind of tragegy as a stepping stone, as very disgusting people.
      Another example is abuse of children. I believe that I would feel very violated if I had been abused and then used again in some slobs attempt of getting reelected or making laws with the very likely outcome of being misused against scores of other people.
      Abuse of any kind is very bad, but then these bastards basicly go on to do it again... it makes me sick.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    AndrewLee, 30 Nov 2015 @ 3:58am

    Sigh

    If they stopped treating everyone like a potential terrorist they might have the time to find real terrorist.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Yes, I know I'm commenting anonymously, 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:02am

    As long as they can claim there is not enough data, they can deny accountability for the failure to prevent the attacks. This keeps them in office which is the most important thing for politicians. (including high ranking civil servants). Wether the citizens are safer or not, simply does not factor into the equasion.

    This also means that there can be no end to the demand for more surveillance.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:23am

      Re:

      "Wether the citizens are safer or not, simply does not factor into the equasion."

      Based on their books I would argue that the more fear the sheep has, the better.

      "This also means that there can be no end to the demand for more surveillance."

      there is few information outside the reach of skynet,
      what I fear is that there will be no end of the USE of the gathered information
      to assure the perfect uniform obedient sheep

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    cypherspace (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:15am

    I know that WSJ's staff reporters and editorial board are two separate entities, but the latter outright worships the national security state. As a result of this report their next anti-crypto op-ed will be more entertaining than normal.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:48am

      "Report? What report?"

      Maybe, but given how those throwing hysterical fits over how the (non-existent) encryption of the attackers was such a problem have acted so far, I'd expect them to flat out ignore this report, just like they've flat out ignored all the other evidence showing how encryption had nothing to do with the failure to stop the attack.

      They haven't let such trifles as 'evidence' and 'facts' get in the way of their grab for more power so far after all, why would they start now?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:53am

        Re: "Report? What report?"

        "failure to stop the attack"

        what failure?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          That One Guy (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:21am

          Re: Re: "Report? What report?"

          You seem to be having fun beating on the 'they let it happen' drum, so let me point something out for you: It doesn't matter if they did or not.

          Let me repeat that in case you missed it: It does not matter if they knew about the attack and let it happen, or if they honestly missed it, with regards to the topics of encryption/mass spying

          Whether they deliberately let the attack through, or just flat out missed it in the piles of junk data is a moot point, what matters is that the indiscriminate spying failed, utterly, to do anything against a group that did everything short of mailing their plans to the police ahead of time(print yes, mail no), meaning it's clearly a complete and utter failure, and all the justifications for it of 'We need to spy on everyone to stop attacks like this!' are rubbish. And if the justifications are nothing but empty words, then the programs, and the calls for increasing them, now have no ground beneath them other than 'We really like spying on everyone's personal communications'.

          That is the important part, pointing out that the justifications for the mass-spying is crap, and the calls for undermining security even more so, because neither is apparently helping them even against those that are practically trying to be caught. And if you take away the justifications, then the programs they are supporting should be removed as well.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:48am

            Re: Re: Re: "Report? What report?"

            IF the sheeple believes the mass surveillance is not to friendly shear them
            but to "protect" the sheeple, then YES it does matter.

            I am not pointing that "they let it happen", what
            I am pointing out is that allowing this has been a HUGE success for the surveillance system,
            and trying to doublethink this into a "FAILURE" is just a very dangerous attempt to stop the cognitive dissonance in the sheeple heads.

            let'S be real kids
            -the French government is right now destroying their constitution and giving themselves crazy tyranny powers...
            -the rest of the planet is jumping in,
            -and the minions will get a their christmas emergency bonus , a salary raise, and their budget for toys just exploded to "whatever you ask for"
            -military industrial complex shares are shining

            This is not a failure, but a major accomplishment.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:58am

            Re: Re: Re: "Report? What report?"

            "It does not matter if they knew about the attack and let it happen... what matters is that the indiscriminate spying failed"

            let`s try archaic logic here:

            if they knew and let it happen... then they DID NOT FAIL. DID THEY?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Klaus, 1 Dec 2015 @ 1:35am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: "Report? What report?"

              "if they knew and let it happen... then they DID NOT FAIL. DID THEY?"

              Yes they did. They failed the people.

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          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:01am

            Re: Re: Re: "Report? What report?"

            "... have no ground beneath them other than
            'We really like spying on everyone's personal communications'.
            That is the important part..."

            OK let`s enterntain this:

            -WHY do they spying on everyone's personal communications?
            -WHAT FOR do they want to spy on everyone's personal communications?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:18am

    Just like with the Boston bombers

    Russia actually warned us about the Boston bombers but the three letter agencies couldn't be bothered to do their jobs. Instead they all sit around staring at monitors hoping one of their cleverly named spying programs get a "hit". There is no way they need to be monitoring everyone on the planet when they can't even keep track of people actually on a watch list.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:06am

      Re: Just like with the Boston bombers

      so the three letter agencies job is not to protect the system but to protect the sheeple from trrrists?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    sheeple hive mindset, 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:40am

    spy and cop love the sheep

    "the law enforcement and intelligence community failed massively in not stopping this"

    so Techdirt/Mike Masnick still insists banging on the rustic idea that
    law ENFORCEMENT and INTELligence community first aim is to protect the sheep from the trrrrist attacks???

    just by randomly reading 1/3 of techdirt articles anybody could infer what their real work is:

    -assure continuity and expansion of government

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:42am

      Re: spy and cop love the sheep

      like for example allowing (or false flagging) terrorist attacks to happen so that police state can accelerate forward

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:35am

      Re: spy and cop love the sheep

      Your totally wrong about their goals. They don't care about the continuity and expansion of government. They care about the continuity and expansion of their agencies and jobs. Nothing else matters to them.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:42am

        Re: Re: spy and cop love the sheep

        you mean they do not pay allegiance to any nation?
        and that they would fuck their governments and merge with foreign systems to grow and develop?

        like some germans and japanese that merged with the allies in WWII?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 10:09am

          Re: Re: Re: spy and cop love the sheep

          They've already started. Ever hear of 5 eyes. Or the fact that the NSA gave intelligence on US government officials to the Israel and just asked that they delete it if they happen to stumble across it.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      jim, 30 Nov 2015 @ 11:30am

      Re: spy and cop love the sheep

      Where did they say anything about expansion of government. Those employees are contractors, not government. Remember, even snowden was a contract employee. They have to promote what the contractor wants, not governments.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 4:48am

    Mike, Mike, Mike, why do you so hate our heroic defenders? When you criticize them you only help the terrorists.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:04am

      Re:

      Mike is arguing they are busy "diverting blame for their own failures" and they "failed massively in not stopping this."

      as when the sheep argues "the shepherd and his wolfs, they love us"

      so YES he his on the side of the police state

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Wendy Cockcroft, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:40am

      Re:

      Defender is as defender does. If we're not being defendED, they're not defendING, and are therefore not defendERS.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    bugmenot (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:30am

    Who wants to lose his job?

    The intelligence community have a hard time convincing the public that they are actually doing something productive.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 5:34am

      Re: Who wants to lose his job?

      Lucky them, they don't have to. They just need to dangle the threat of 'If you cut our budget, and/or get rid of our spying programs, and something gets through, you will get the blame for it' in front of the politicians, very few of which are going to be willing to 'risk' their careers to protect the rights of the public.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:51am

        Re: Re: Who wants to lose his job?

        ...the threat of 'If you cut our budget...


        Good luck with that! Last time I looked any published figure for any agency budget was NOT 100% accurate. There are quite a few black budgets, including those that are attributed to one agency but actually sending those funds to another.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:56am

          Re: Re: Re: Who wants to lose his job?

          they can always make a scene like the 9-11 to burn all the accounting of the black programs...
          don`t they?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:09am

      Re: Who wants to lose his job?

      define productive?

      because helping Boeing against Airbus via spying and leaking could be considered favorable for us interests...

      and JOBS, would it not?

      or spying Brazil to get the best oil fields...

      etc.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:11am

      Re: Who wants to lose his job?

      if they could only blackmail the public representatives...

      would that help?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    David, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:04am

    Ceterum censeo

    It's Snowden's fault who should be hanged from the neck. Also, the intelligence agencies need more powers. How else are they supposed to make us feel secure? They need more powers in order to silence those pointing out that they had all the information they needed about the terrorists by pointing out to the critics that they have all the information they need about the critics, too.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:31am

    Even if they had encrypted their communications, it more than likely would not have mattered. They easily could have used ambiguous phrases or code words that would have meant nothing of note if unencrypted.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:32am

      Response to: Anonymous Coward on Nov 30th, 2015 @ 6:31am

      Mattered in the sense than decrypting it would have not provided any actionable intel.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:46am

      Re:

      Nonsense, everyone knows that any communications must clearly and concisely spell out exactly what is meant, so that should police and/or government agencies want to know what is being said, they don't have to worry if what's written is what's intended to be conveyed. I mean come now, just because they murdered a bunch of people, do you really think they would have been willing to break the law by communicating in a manner that the spies couldn't understand them?

      This is the same reason it's illegal to communicate in person with someone unless a police or government official is nearby to listen in and is able to ask for clarifications to anything said, because it's absolutely forbidden for criminals to communicate in private or otherwise in a fashion that official voyeurs can't understand them, and since it's impossible to know ahead of time who might be a criminal, no-one is allowed to communicate in private.

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      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:58am

        Re: Re:

        and communicate in english please!

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 11:17am

          Re: Re: Re:

          and communicate in english please!

          The Paris attacks would have never happened if English was the official, and enforced, language of France! Let's just hope the French government realizes their mistake and takes corrective action now.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Bastard, 30 Nov 2015 @ 3:34pm

            Re: Arabic

            Communications in Arabic might not hurt either. A lot of people in the Middle East seem to be multi-lingual.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Capt ICE Enforcer, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:38am

    Calculated not Incompetent

    It sucks that these conversations still occur. Those i
    n the intelligence community need to stick with their main goal. Defend our nation from other nations attacking us. If they stick to that mission statement then they will succeed. These small attacks killing a few hundred or even thousand of individuals should be handled my local law enforcement.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:01am

      Re: Calculated not Incompetent

      Not sure what local law enforcement would do against a force multiplier like an airplane, though. You could easily leave any local jurisdiction in seconds, for a target elsewhere. And "well, before the attack" is kinda useless to argue once the plane has been hijacked.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:15am

        Re: Re: Calculated not Incompetent

        Oh YES, because our surveillance system has such a superb record handling airplane hijackings?

        and let`s not mention the TSA work program, or the "blue painted civil" TANKS and GRANADES

        we are talking still about that transformers movie? or is that ironman?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Violynne (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:57am

    So why is it that law enforcement and the intelligence community (and various politicians) around the globe are using the attacks as a reason to ban or undermine encryption?
    The best way to cover up complete ineptitude is to create a boogeyman which doesn't exist.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:58am

    let me suggest to you the possibility that the french spies failed and ours didn't. we absolutely wanted something bad to happen to shock the american people. i can absolutely see us (and the brits) pick up on that and not alert the french.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:06am

      Re:

      "let me suggest to you the possibility that the french spies failed and ours didn't..."

      Oh YES, "their shepherd and his wolfs, they hate them...
      but OUR shepherd and his wolfs, they love us"

      you are a good sheep, take a cookie...
      good sheep!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:00am

    complete ineptitude?
    they just got a major accomplishment!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:02am

    in addition to what i just said, it becomes more and more obvious that this spy network has nothing to do with stopping crime or terrorists. we need a whistle-blower to tell us what they are really doing.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:08am

      Re:

      they are "gathering enough information to legally destroy/crush anyone that raises his voice against the system"

      what for?
      to assure system continuity and expansion

      why?
      cause every organism has a defense system, exactly for that

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:10am

      Re:

      there are millions of books explaining what they are doing

      specially the ones around WWII

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:46am

    The linked gawker article has them crediting Allah for blinding authorities. I don't know if I believe them.

    To paraphrase Han Solo: Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for good encryption at your side, kid.

    Or maybe Darth Vader is more apropos: I find your lack of encryption disturbing...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      tqk (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 9:37am

      Re:

      Or maybe Darth Vader is more apropos: I find your lack of encryption disturbing...

      Damn, that'd look good on a t-shirt! And I'm not even a Star Wars fan.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 7:57am

    Your bullshit hollywood fictional approach to "protecting" us has a bodycount...

    The failure isn't a lack of information.
    The true failure in all of this is the systematic disregard for reality.
    The plots the FBI "stop" are plots stolen from the media, the best ideas hollywood can craft taken as factual and run with.
    The system is designed to stop the movie threats, while ignoring the fact that none of that is real.

    We paid for a conference room that looks like a starships bridge. We have people waiting for the system to kick out the red ball prediction of something bad about to happen that we can stop in the nick of time. We collect all of the information from everywhere, and expect that the needle will jump up and announce itself to the creepy orb used to spy on hobbit beauty queens changing.

    For all of the tech, all of the violations of rights, all of the secret meetings handing out huge piles of cash...
    They were unable to spot those the system was warned about.

    Perhaps it is time to stop looking for the hollywood magic happy ending to terror being stopped and look at actual things.

    Focus on those we should focus on, rather than just letting the xenophobia stay in control.
    Go back to this silly idea where real people investigate real information gathered on specific targets and identify the patterns, rather than using the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon method of connecting everyone to the target.
    Look at the history of events like this and take note that very often, no matter how cliched it is, they go back to the scene of the crime.

    We need to demand they stop chasing boogeymen they create and put forth to a media who is salivating to get more eyes on them, and focus on actual things.

    They are busy decrying encryption, demanding impossible 'good guy only' back doors, expanding everything that has failed every single time to do anything but print out a nice report of all of the things they fucking missed in the ocean of crap they are sifting... rather than focusing on the simple fact that what they are doing, have done, and want to spend more money to do hasn't done anything... if it had worked the bodycount shouldn't exist. They would have scooped them up and ended it before the tragedy.

    What happened is a tragedy, how they are using it to try and expand further is disgusting. They fucked up, perhaps it is time we ask why they want to talk about encryption when they couldn't even find people not using it.

    Their systems will never work, and anyone who claims that they will if we just give them more money, more power, more of our rights... needs to be removed. They need to be forced to give an apology to every single person they failed, and listen to the stories of those who were lost because the powers that be are more obsessed with fantasy than reality.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 8:26am

    Security through obscurity. Authority is spending so much time looking in the dark, that they don't even notice when someone walks past in broad daylight.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 9:32am

    "Again, it seems pretty clear that it's very much about diverting blame for their own failures. Given how out in the open the attackers operated, the law enforcement and intelligence community failed massively in not stopping this. No wonder they're grasping at straws to find something to blame, even if it had nothing to do with the attacks."

    Okay, that and the fact that this plays right into their hand. They want it all and if FUD can make that happen, why not?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ECA (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 10:43am

    Interesting and entertaining..

    #1...
    I pointed out the Fun that is, Data collection long ago to many friends, and on site, including this one..
    Long ago, before any of this happened, our Gov TRIED to sample this type of data collection.
    Trying to sample the Net, Phones, Cellphones, and any communications devices...in 1 day, they had Filled a Room(??) 4 foot high in paperwork..AND that was just from scanning the USA for keywords..
    Want to try it in Many other languages, and with alittle encryption??

    #2..
    This really sounds like a good time for Murderers, assassins..and others to create mayhem.. Including allot of instigation..
    For nations that DECLARE they are Christian, and HATE killing, including the death penalty..What will happen to these people??
    What would it take, to Hold a family to ransom, and get 1-2 of them to Go against their OWN will, and BOMB something?? Just to keep their families alive?

    #3
    This is back to #1..but HOW many ways can you communicate, including the web?? Private and NOT private. You dont want a list. It would be as long as your Arm, and more..
    Anyone that understands this, also understands that IT ISNT the power of the computer, or Much related.. ITS the intelligence of the PERSON..
    Its the IDEA that a group would encode there Messages using ONLY 1 book..(which is stupid thinking) as a SMART person would add another book, and another, and another..
    Its thinking that ALL terrorists, speak 1 language...So they go out and learn to speak another, then another...or Run to Google translate and have TONS of fun..

    But a few things to think about..
    Corporate entities get a Military regime to BACK them...They instigate things to happen. Who is at fault?
    4 Nations are bombing 1 country, and WHERE do the Peaceful people go?? THEY RUN..
    The USA gets more OIL from Canada, and S. America, so WHY the FRACK are we in the middle east??

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      GEMont (profile), 1 Dec 2015 @ 3:15pm

      Re: Interesting and entertaining..

      "The USA gets more OIL from Canada, and S. America, so WHY the FRACK are we in the middle east??"

      You're looking at it backwards - most people do.

      If you shut down or at least slow oil production in the middle east through war and sabotage, you can cause a shortage of oil globally, and thereby cause the oil produced elsewhere - such as from the wells owned by the Five Eyes in Canada and S. America - to have greater value and higher price.

      The Five Eyes are not in the middle east to steal the oil, but to turn the spigot off, so that their own oil production becomes more lucrative.

      Later, when they finally take over the middle east and control the middle eastern oil, and their own fields are running dry, they'll turn the Middle Eastern spigots back on and turn of those nearly dry sources they currently own and exploit, maintaining high prices "to the last drop".

      Its a simple plan Stan. And its been running successfully for decades upon decades, and shows no signs at all of being any less effective over the next century, because people have no way to stop billionaires from doing whatever billionaires want to do.

      And Billionaires want to do only one thing - become Trillionaires, and then Quadrillionaires, and then Quintillionaires, etc., ad infinitum.

      ---

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2015 @ 12:27pm

    I would make a joke about how the authority is spending all their resourse into looking past encrytion and the dark net that it would be safer to plan and communicate via open network since their not paying attention to the open network. But...that seem to exactly what happened.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Spaceman Spiff (profile), 30 Nov 2015 @ 6:19pm

    Hiding in plain sight

    In the 1960's and early 70's I was involved in some "questionable" activities - mostly political. My colleagues and I realized that if you try to hide, you will be found out. The best approach was to "hide in plain sight", just being "normal". It worked very well, and we were never arrested or targeted for our activities. We even lived across the street from the state governor's mansion! Who'd have thunk that a bunch of radicals would live there?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    GEMont (profile), 1 Dec 2015 @ 12:28pm

    silly hoomuns

    Memo: Office of Five Eyes Public Relations Department
    To: All Chief Field Operations Officers

    The Term - "inside job" - will become more common as time goes by unless another, bigger attack is carried out ASAP.

    We suggest hitting the building that the Climate Conference is expected to be held in.

    ---

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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