After Endless Demonization Of Encryption, Police Find Paris Attackers Coordinated Via Unencrypted SMS

from the anonymous-sources-say dept

In the wake of the tragic events in Paris last week encryption has continued to be a useful bogeyman for those with a voracious appetite for surveillance expansion. Like clockwork, numerous reports were quickly circulated suggesting that the terrorists used incredibly sophisticated encryption techniques, despite no evidence by investigators that this was the case. These reports varied in the amount of hallucination involved, the New York Times even having to pull one such report offline. Other claims the attackers had used encrypted Playstation 4 communications also wound up being bunk.

Yet, pushed by their sources in the government, the media quickly became a sound wall of noise suggesting that encryption was hampering the government's ability to stop these kinds of attacks. NBC was particularly breathless this week over the idea that ISIS was now running a 24 hour help desk aimed at helping its less technically proficient members understand encryption (even cults help each other use technology, who knew?). All of the reports had one central, underlying drum beat implication: Edward Snowden and encryption have made us less safe, and if you disagree the blood is on your hands.

Yet, amazingly enough, as actual investigative details emerge, it appears that most of the communications between the attackers was conducted via unencrypted vanilla SMS:
"...News emerging from Paris — as well as evidence from a Belgian ISIS raid in January — suggests that the ISIS terror networks involved were communicating in the clear, and that the data on their smartphones was not encrypted.

European media outlets are reporting that the location of a raid conducted on a suspected safe house Wednesday morning was extracted from a cellphone, apparently belonging to one of the attackers, found in the trash outside the Bataclan concert hall massacre. Le Monde reported that investigators were able to access the data on the phone, including a detailed map of the concert hall and an SMS messaging saying “we’re off; we’re starting.” Police were also able to trace the phone’s movements.
The reports note that Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the "mastermind" of both the Paris attacks and a thwarted Belgium attack ten months ago, failed to use any encryption whatsoever (read: existing capabilities stopped the Belgium attacks and could have stopped the Paris attacks, but didn't). That's of course not to say batshit religious cults like ISIS don't use encryption, and won't do so going forward. Everybody uses encryption. But the point remains that to use a tragedy to vilify encryption, push for surveillance expansion, and pass backdoor laws that will make everybody less safe -- is nearly as gruesome as the attacks themselves.

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  1. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 11:45am

    Perhaps if they spent less time spreading anti-encryption propaganda, and more time actually focusing on terrorists who exist in the massive amount of unencrypted data they already collect, they would actually stop terrorists.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2. icon
    voiceofReason (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 11:50am

    What not to do

    If the TSA and its shoe fetish is any guide to go by, everyone, please, whatever you do in the next few years, do NOT, under ANY circumstances, text the phrase:

    "“we’re off; we’re starting"

    to anyone, EVER.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3. icon
    MadCow (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 11:52am

    In other news: McCain gracefully backs away from his proposed encryption legislation.


    Err...Too early for April Fool's?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:03pm

    Quick, Hurry

    We need to quickly ban this SMS technology to prevent the next attack.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:04pm

    Remind me again what the security services are meant to do, apart from being able to explain how an attack was carried out after the event.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:09pm

    ah! but they were only the messages they meant to be found! the real sneaky stuff was sent by encrypted pigeon!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:10pm

    Re:

    The Department of Hindsight Security knows exactly what happened after it happens.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:11pm

    Too much hay?

    Like people have said before, maybe collecting all data creates too much to search through. SMS is not exactly new and has been collected since the start.
    If something that easy to find can circumvent the whole data collection and analysis apparatus maybe we should stop for a moment and reconsider how the whole system works or maybe even if the system works.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9. icon
    Roger Strong (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:15pm

    Re:

    Not a chance. Even seven years after such claims were thoroughly disproven...

    "Well, some of the 9/11 hijackers did come through Canada, as you know."
    - John McCain, incorrectly, April 24, 2009

    McCain is also warning that ISIS could come storming across the Canadian border.

    The man who decided that Sarah Palin could command the country in a crisis isn't one to flip-flop. When he says something goddamned stupid, he sticks with it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10. icon
    David (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:20pm

    This just shows how useless the current data collection is

    If the current data collection programs worked, then this would have been prevented, see, found out, or something...

    Betcha no one in intelligence is going to own up to that!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:23pm

    Re: What not to do

    If the TSA and its shoe fetish is any guide to go by, everyone, please, whatever you do in the next few years, do NOT, under ANY circumstances, text the phrase:

    "“we’re off; we’re starting"

    to anyone, EVER.


    Indeed. And what makes that silly is that being of Syrian descent and French citizens living in Belgium, it's likely that the attackers didn't even know English. The text is more than likely a translation.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12. icon
    jilocasin (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:24pm

    encoded != encrypted

    I think what the sound wall also seems to be forgetting is that encoded is not the same as encrypted.

    Even if the powers that be got their wish and made the entire world less safe and less private, that probably still wouldn't stop terrorists (or your garden variety criminal) from secretly communicating. People have been doing it since Roman times, heck probably since biblical times.

    person0: "Is the bread fresh this morning?"

    person1: "That depends, are you interested in the wheat or the rye?"

    person0: "Oh, the wheat, the rye is too strong for me."

    person1: "Not really, it's a couple of days old, but it's still tasty."


    So what where these people really talking about?

    • an illicit explosives transaction

    • a drug deal

    • human trafficking

    • if the bread at the local bakery is any good



    Other than making it a little more work to get to, would the fact that it was encrypted or in plain text make it any easier for law enforcement to understand?

    Removing encryption makes everyone less safe and is just a road bump to any serious criminal or terrorist organization.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13. icon
    radix (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:27pm

    Biggest story of the day

    See, this isn't just not the story the surveillance maximalists want to tell. And it goes deeper than saying encryption doesn't matter.

    This suggests that the mass surveillance mentality itself is partly to blame.

    We already know that France and most of the rest of the EU has NSA-type powers to collect it all and sort through the pile later. This means they probably had all the evidence they needed but couldn't stop it anyway. There's too much data to search in real time in any meaningful way. A more focused targeting of surveillance would greatly reduce the analysis paralysis.

    Which leads to a point I've been making all along., that there are two realities to mass surveillance:
    1) If they are parsing it all in real time, they may be able to prevent an attack, but this gives lie to the claim that your data is never being searched (everybody's must be included in the data set).
    2) If they are only looking at it in hindsight, they can be more specific about the selectors and exclude more people, but this gives lie to the claim that they can prevent an attack in the first place (it can only be investigated).

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:28pm

    OK, so NOW can we start blaming the intelligence agency bosses for FAILING to do their jobs and FIRE THEM?!

    Or are we going to wait until they hand us another scapegoat?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15. identicon
    redrum, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:29pm

    Paris Attackers Coordinated Via Unencrypted SMS

    Ha! That's just priceless!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:31pm

    Re:

    Data interception specialists:

    "Quick! It's a rock dove! Intercept it!"

    "Er, isn't it carrier pigeons that carry messages?"

    "It's likely a carrier pigeon in disguise. We need to capture and analyze it to be sure!"

    +++ATH0&^89I&*^( NO CARRIER

    Obvious answer? Ban all pigeons in Paris. It's the only way to be sure.

    No, really. http://www.parissweethome.com/parisrentals/art_uk.php?id=101

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17. identicon
    Capt ICE Enforcer, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:32pm

    Complete disgrace

    Only bad people use encryption, that is why the governments missed this opportunity to stop it. They only focus on bad guys using encryption not good people in the clear. The question I have, is the intelligence agencies a complete disgrace for allowing the attack to happen in order to gain more power at the expense of innocent lives. Or are the a complete disgrace for once again failing to perform.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18. icon
    jilocasin (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:40pm

    Re: Re:

    "Is it a European rock dove or an African rock dove?"

    "I don't know...."

    "Aaaaahhhhhhgggg......."

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:41pm

    THE SHARK IS IN THE WATER. REPEAT. THE SHARK IS IN THE WATER.

    Did the attackers' SMS communications feature plain communications or ambiguous codes.

    Minor delays here. Jabbir still priming detonators. Replacing Uman's bent AK firing pin. Ready to go in 5 min.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:41pm

    Re: Complete disgrace

    Why not both?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:45pm

    Re: encoded != encrypted

    Look up the pizza connection in which the Sicilian Mafia channeled drugs through (otherwise legitimate) pizza delivery joints. It took the FBI years to work out the code with thousands of hours of recorded phone tap.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22. identicon
    Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 12:52pm

    Re:

    See, there are two different goals there, and they are only coincidentally both number one. The first is to get the encryption backdoors so that no one can hide from them, ever. And the other first is to increase their big brotherish hold over...well everyone. How is it that you are not on the bandwagon yet? Please present your papers citizen!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23. icon
    Almost Anonymous (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:04pm

    Breaking news

    Manhattan DA's Office and Senator Tom Cotton team up to ban the words "we're", "off", and "starting".

    "No true American would use such terror-ridden words", Senator Cotton may or may not have been quoted as saying.

    More at 11!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24. icon
    Almost Anonymous (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:07pm

    Re: Quick, Hurry

    Ban any and all communications that do not first get routed through a central government repository for decryption/storage. It's the only way.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25. identicon
    Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:18pm

    Re: Re: Quick, Hurry

    So talking to your neighbors over the fence should go through a government server first? I would forget about getting your ball back.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:29pm

    Where is the proof that all communications were SMS?

    The police found a burner phone with a text.

    This article is bullshit, as usual.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27. identicon
    Adrian Lopez, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:30pm

    How can you all be so thick?

    If terrorists using unencrypted channels were able to communicate without being noticed, imagine how much more unnoticed they'd been had they used encryption.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28. icon
    Roger Strong (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:33pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    "How do know so much about doves?"

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:34pm

    All this surveillance

    isn't about catching people doing bad things... that's just the bullshit they're feeding us to make us feel all warm and fuzzy.

    No, it's about collecting and STORING all communication between all people so that they can go back later and use that to find patterns of activity that are either illegal or embarrassing should they need this information at some point in the future.

    Until there's actually some reason to filter (or "target" as they say) the data - it's just a big pile of hay. But with the right filtering, the data could show someone's very private details - perfect when you need to find reasons to arrest people after the fact.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:35pm

    Encryption end-goal

    Devil's advocate:

    If the end-goal for the encryption push is to encrypt the content of all communication, then theoretically, those pushing for ubiquitous encryption are stating that the terrorists communicated over a medium that they still want encrypted to protect everyone else that uses it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:36pm

    Re: How can you all be so thick?

    Apparently it wouldn't have mattered... cuz the use of encrypted or non-encrypted communication isn't the problem that needs to be solved in order to start catching people before they do bad things.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:40pm

    Re: Re: How can you all be so thick?

    *whoosh*

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 1:56pm

    If these spooks had better hind sight,

    they could have found the back door.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34. identicon
    John Q Public, 18 Nov 2015 @ 2:08pm

    And Democrats using the attacks to justify Obama's goal of firearms confiscation is also despicable.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35. identicon
    John Nemesh, 18 Nov 2015 @ 2:17pm

    Re:

    Your comments have been noted and a reeducation officer has been dispatched to your location. Thoughtcrime is NOT permitted!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 2:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: How can you all be so thick?

    Sorry, given the usual comments around here - the sarcasm was hard to detect... this is how they actually think.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37. icon
    Mat (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 2:41pm

    Once Again

    We need a Sad, but True, button.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 2:50pm

    Here's one of the messages found after the blast,

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39. icon
    Richard (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 3:27pm

    Re: This just shows how useless the current data collection is

    Reality is that the latest perpetrators were on the French police watch list. However that list is 5000 strong so they aren't able to watch them all the time.

    Most of these proposals will only increase the size of the watch list. That can only make things worse

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 4:06pm

    We must outlaw unencryption!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 4:30pm

    So, the terrorists didn't encrypt their communications. Based on the logic politicians have been using so far, doesn't this mean they should be telling us to encrypt everything?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42. icon
    shanen (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 4:32pm

    Total bogosity of the help desk idea

    No one is commenting on the ludicrous bogosity of the help desk idea? None of you see it? Or are you ignoring it just because it's peripheral to the encryption topic?

    Let me just say that the notion of ISIS/ISIL setting up such a locus of communication is completely insane. Well, yes, they are insane, but it's also completely stupid.

    The fake reports say six of their senior leaders would be working the help desk. Okay, right there is a prime target for a bomb. However, the REAL risks of such a stupid idea are vastly larger. The Daily Show did a skit on fake help, but better to leave it in place. This is a case where just tapping the metadata would be incredibly effective. Pretty safe bet that everyone who calls a 'how to be a terrorist' help desk is a person of interest.

    Even more obviously, the fundamental notion of a help desk is that you have to distribute the contact information widely. Oh, wait. How long until a copy of the contact information leaks out? Or some fool drops his wallet with the help desk number in it?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 4:39pm

    Never let facts get in the way of state supported propaganda. It is what every good shill knows. That and their inability to see how they are setting themselves up to be executed/discarded when they are no longer of use to the regime.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44. identicon
    bc, 18 Nov 2015 @ 4:49pm

    Re: Re: What not to do

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 5:58pm

    So, are you all just fucking retarded? Do you really need to fixate on this?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 6:09pm

    Wow! Thoughtful.

    Who'da thunk someone would pull out the what are you all retarded argument.

    Jolly good show.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47. identicon
    Anonymous Bastard, 18 Nov 2015 @ 6:17pm

    The kinds of horrible attacks are never going to be prevented. Sufficiently dedicated terrorists are always going to find ways to circumvent surveillance systems. It wouldn't surprise me if they revert to using pigeons to carry their messages.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 6:22pm

    Re:

    Since you decided to be fixated on encryption, the fact that it got so easily sidestepped is pretty fucking retarded. For your side.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49. identicon
    Scratch, 18 Nov 2015 @ 6:46pm

    Re: Re: What not to do

    I strongly suspect that the common image of these agencies setting up some alarm based on keywords is false, or at least exaggerated. I think the more important information is WHO is communicating. Once a person of interest is identified, because they were arrested or because they bragged to an informant or whatever, it seems like it would be helpful to quickly find out who that person has been communicating with, and this is the value of phone records. THEN the contents of those communications, if required, can be examined for critical information.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50. identicon
    Scratch, 18 Nov 2015 @ 6:59pm

    Re: encoded != encrypted

    I don't think your examples would be read just out of the blue. The more likely scenario is that authorities had reason to be reading/listening/whatever to that specific contact, and could piece together your example traffic with other information to build a picture of the situation. Just like a suspected spy might be followed after work and arrested when he passes a briefcase to a known foreign agent, while other people who are not suspects can pass around briefcases whenever they want without attracting any notice at all.

    If a person of interest contacts another person of interest, thereby establishing the existence of a relationship between the two, that is useful information (intelligence, if you will). The contents of their communication, if available, is more information. Obviously, more information is good.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 7:42pm

    Re: Wow! Thoughtful.

    I really loved it back in '68 when Gore Vidal eviscerated Buckley with an eloquent and perfectly crafted "retard" reference.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 7:53pm

    Re:

    Hah, the intelligence community is more concerned about being able to see everything than saving the lives of civilians. They want to be able to take out anyone who can harm the elite...not protect the average citizen which is impossible even for them. And frankly, they really could care less about murder as they do it enough themselves.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53. identicon
    Doofus, 18 Nov 2015 @ 8:07pm

    Re: encoded != encrypted

    Politician here. Looks like we need to ban bread. Thanks for the tip.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 18 Nov 2015 @ 9:22pm

    Whose side do you think I'm on?

    I think encryption is a sweet thing we should be doing because it might slow down intelligence agencies from spying on everyone, and because it prevents our fourth-amendment rights from being encroached.

    I think end-to-end encryption will prove necessary to keep governments and corporations out of our private lives, and out of the non-public records of our businesses.

    US officials have been pushing for more surveillance and for hobbling encryption for the sake of intercepting terrorists.

    Terrorists, that it appears, weren't using encryption at all.

    So that excuse is lame. And encryption is still very useful for the rest of us.

    Are you up to speed now? I know it's hard.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 10:04pm

    It's WHO not HOW!

    This just proves that the wide net data collection of everything from everyone is useless.

    HOW they watch is useless!

    What they need to get right is WHO they watch.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 18 Nov 2015 @ 11:16pm

    Re: Whose side do you think I'm on?

    I think either you're mistaken, or I'm mistaken and/or horrible at putting my point across.

    My point was to counter the shill's point that we were fixating on the fact that terrorists used unencrypted messages. The fact they did use unencrypted message rendered the obsession with removing encryption for citizens moot, because it doesn't solve anything.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 19 Nov 2015 @ 12:00am

    Re: Re: Whose side do you think I'm on?

    I'm probably mistaken then. As I agree with you.

    I'm going to blame it on a tiresome day.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:13am

    Re: What not to do

    Dear voiceofReason:

    we’re off

    we’re starting

    kisses, hugs and best regards, a trrrrist


    PD:
    https://www.techdirt.com/user/voiceofreason

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:15am

    Re: What not to do

    i will

    send this via sms to all my cellphone contacts

    and via email to all my email contacts

    at 11:59 am

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60. identicon
    gunfree house, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:21am

    hive mindset

    "routed through a central government repository for decryption/storage. It's the only way."

    this would be like when the cops arrive 2 hrs later to your home just to take photos... (and you do not have guns).

    they could try to use the dragnet database, streetcams, etc to find the burglars but YOU and YOUR FAMILY are already dead.

    the collective hive sheep government system will continue

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:24am

    Re:

    " what the security services are meant to do, apart from being able to explain how an attack was carried out after the event."

    this is brilliant

    we do not care about the dead individual
    but the collective herd...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:34am

    Re: encoded != encrypted

    how many grams of rye would 800€ get me?
    I need high purity it is for a trader friend and he is picky.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:37am

    Re: Re: Re: Whose side do you think I'm on?

    I concur. Dealing with anti-encryption shills is tiresome indeed.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:44am

    Re: THE SHARK IS IN THE WATER. REPEAT. THE SHARK IS IN THE WATER.

    last trip I got a couple of old "bottles of Kalashnikov vodka" through the border,
    they are now in my basement,
    but first we need to get Ahmed to clean and grease them

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:46am

    Re: Re: THE SHARK IS IN THE WATER. REPEAT. THE SHARK IS IN THE WATER.

    we have to buy some prof. sewing machine oil in amazon

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:50am

    Re: All this surveillance

    if you raise your voice
    we will check the 30 yrs of info we have on you and your family
    and we will destroy you

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 1:56am

    Re: Re: All this surveillance

    this is exactly the message

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 2:00am

    Re: It's WHO not HOW!

    "wide net data collection of everything from everyone is useless"

    useless for what? for whom?
    THINK!

    maybe YOU are wrong on the purpose they do this?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    NSA DOC, 19 Nov 2015 @ 2:07am

    BREAKING

    NSA DOC REVEALS ISIS LEADER AL-BAGHDADI IS U.S., BRITISH AND ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE ASSET

    http://www.infowars.com/nsa-doc-reveals-isis-leader-al-baghdadi-is-u-s-british-and-israeli-inte lligence-asset/



    BREAKING! PARIS ATTACKS FALSE FLAG: DRILLS PLANNED ON SAME DAY!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De_PyuLDfhg


    CONFIRMED: Sandy Hook Crisis Actors Pose as Paris Attack Victims! SHAME ON CNN!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oxGMMNwYeo

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 2:36am

    Re:

    Mind if I send that to our politicans? Finland is still pretty much only contry in EU that dosn't do mass surveillance.
    Ofcourse our Secret Police and Army want to legalize it, because...

    National Security!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71. identicon
    Glenn, 19 Nov 2015 @ 2:59am

    Since when have people with their own agenda had a problem with making their own "truths" to satisfy whatever situation in order to get what they want? Corrupt people have always been willing to corrupt the truth. (People are stupid apparently.) Funny how the people who are bathed in blood are eager to accuse "enemies" of having "blood on their hands".

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 3:19am

    Re: What not to do

    I think the most worrying factor to me is that they know how to use a semi-colon better than I do!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 4:12am

    Re:

    Found the real politician...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74. icon
    jiloicasin (profile), 19 Nov 2015 @ 6:23am

    Re: Re: encoded != encrypted

    Sounds like you are talking about good ol fashioned police / intelligence work. You know, the kind that doesn't require the police / intelligence agencies to plant bugs in all our phones, video cameras in all our bedrooms, and amass warehouses full of information that takes so long to process it's only good at figuring out who committed a crime / attack after it's happened.

    [well that the official reason anyway]

    I think that's just too much work for our modern forces.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 8:18am

    Re:

    European citizens are hereby mandated to shoot every bird they see!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76. identicon
    Bruce Preville, 19 Nov 2015 @ 9:05am

    Ending Blowback Terrorism

    Painful as it is to admit, the West, especially the United States, bears significant responsibility for creating the conditions in which ISIS has flourished.
    https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/islamic-state-blowback-terrorism-by-jeffrey- d-sachs-2015-11

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 9:06am

    Hiding in plain sight, so retarded it is brilliant. The spooks would never expect the obvious.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 9:28am

    only terrorists use semi-colons

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79. icon
    Bikal (profile), 19 Nov 2015 @ 9:43am

    Re: encoded != encrypted

    Mi5 use to get resistance from Royal Mail about intercepting letters and so warrants had to be applied. The numerous methods of communicating (another one is multiple people logging into webmail and using drafts and not sending the email). Encryption would only encypt the message but not the fact that a message was sent, but for evidence gathering (especially proof of intent when preventing crime) it is important.
    Besides, wont quantum computers make the current infrastructure useless anyway?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80. icon
    Derek Kerton (profile), 19 Nov 2015 @ 10:13am

    Haystack Problem

    Problem: We're looking for a needle in a haystack.
    Solution: More haystack.

    It's like f'n cowbell for Christopher Walken.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2015 @ 10:32am

    Re: Haystack Problem

    More cowbell

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82. identicon
    Robert, 19 Nov 2015 @ 10:39am

    Re: What not to do

    or.....everyone should text phrases like at least three times a day from their phones.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 19 Nov 2015 @ 11:39am

    Re: Re: All this surveillance

    Also, if I'm an official and like your wife, or your business is innovatively competing with my business, then I can find something and ruin you.

    In the Harlequin romance novel version, I use prison to hold you hostage to keep your wife receptive. She treats me well, you stay in the light wing and keep your access to the library and better food and stuff.

    She turns cold, and you get transferred to the hard wing and become Bubba's bitch.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 19 Nov 2015 @ 11:43am

    Quantum computers

    Yeah. Quantum computers will be able to speed up factorization of large numbers so that private keys can be derived from public keys.

    Everyone in the asymmetric crypto sector is worried about this.

    Still, we've yet to make an actual Quantum. Dunno if the recent prototype logic gate is enough to do it.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85. identicon
    Anonymous1223, 20 Nov 2015 @ 3:29am

    Re: Complete disgrace

    I don't know if it's that they are a complete disgrace. What is not properly communicated is that the intelligence community doesn't have the legal right to sift through everyone's data. There is no way that someone "let this happen" in order to get more power over their citizens-- especially since it happened in France, it wouldn't impact the US in any great way. Now, if it happened in the US, there *might* be an argument, but a loose one, and it wouldn't allow the IC to batch collect data like that.

    The problem, I would think, is that they would be overwhelmed by the volume of data and that they have no real program or enough analysts to sift through all the bullshit.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86. icon
    John Fenderson (profile), 20 Nov 2015 @ 6:42am

    Re: Quantum computers

    On the flip side, quantum computing would also allow crypto that is far stronger than anything we can make right now. Quantum computing would not make crypto worthless, it would just be a continuation of the back-and-forth game that crypto has always been.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87. icon
    John Fenderson (profile), 20 Nov 2015 @ 6:49am

    Re: Re:

    Wait, so choosing not to encrypt your communication counts as "side-stepping" now? What?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88. icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), 20 Nov 2015 @ 1:59pm

    Re: Re: Quantum computers

    Of course, but that provides that we have access to them.

    Right now our (partial) quantum computers are giant mainframes. It'll be a while when we have qubits in our smartphones.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89. identicon
    Michael, 20 Nov 2015 @ 2:31pm

    Re: Unencrypted Data Collection

    All that data they said they needed to collect from law abiding citizens has never resulted in shutting down a potential terror event. However, other law enforcement agencies have illegally used that data to conduct investigations of people here in the United States. Fact is, the U.S. government sold Americans a lemon, and most Americans keep sucking on it. Its Unbelieveable!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90. identicon
    Michael, 20 Nov 2015 @ 2:34pm

    Re: What not to do

    Why not? It certainly didn't stop the terror tacks in Paris.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91. identicon
    Michael, 20 Nov 2015 @ 2:48pm

    Veil of Freedom

    The government won't be happy until the populous is living under a veil of freedom. We are at the point where almost nothing is inviolable. Government wants its nose so far up your sphincter that they can smell your breath and tell you what you had for breakfast.

    Baaa!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92. icon
    Michael (profile), 20 Nov 2015 @ 3:14pm

    Re: Goals

    The question everyone should be asking is, why isn't government profiling? Its clear that it wasn't 5-year-old boys, or elderly women in wheel chairs wearing diapers that flew planes into the WTCs. Yet we are spending billions to grope children and force the wheel chair bound elderly to remove their diapers in airports. These terrorists are not modern day Puritans wearing suicide belts, going door-to-door blowing people up. Most of us don't fit the profile. So, why are we being surveilled?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93. icon
    Michael (profile), 20 Nov 2015 @ 3:18pm

    Re: Security services

    Security services provide a false sense of security. Our intelligence services, on the other hand, are supposed to gather and analyze data to prevent acts of terror.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  94. icon
    known (profile), 21 Nov 2015 @ 5:23am

    Anatomy of HATE;

    If you're not from my caste/religion, you're non-human to me;
    https://wh.gov/iyhMK

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  95. identicon
    Wendy Cockcroft, 23 Nov 2015 @ 2:48am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Laden or unladen?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  96. icon
    Richard (profile), 23 Nov 2015 @ 5:30am

    Re: Re: Quantum computers

    Quantum crypto is a completely separate thing from Quantum computers - and it is already in use- although it has potential flaws (that are also not directly related to quantum computers).

    Quantum crypto makes use of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle to prevent undetectable eavesdropping whereas Quantum computers rely on superposition of states to create massive parallelism.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  97. icon
    Richard (profile), 23 Nov 2015 @ 5:33am

    Re: Breaking news

    Manhattan DA's Office and Senator Tom Cotton team up to ban the words "we're", "off", and "starting".


    The first thing we do - round up all the sports commentators!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  98. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 25 Nov 2015 @ 8:06am

    We need to bomb Syrians, reject refugees and ban encryption,
    because Paris- terrorists were not Syrian, nor refugees and used no encryption.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  99. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 25 Nov 2015 @ 8:07am

    Re: Ending Blowback Terrorism

    what a flowery way of saying they designed created trained armed and payed the whole thing

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  100. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Dec 2015 @ 5:07am

    Re: Quick, Hurry

    this trrist are VERY OLD SCHOOL: they use SMS !!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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