Assuming you are responding to me..

“We invade their country, break their moral laws, force a new style of government on them, kill their family members, bomb their homes, kill their leaders, meddle in their affairs and generally speaking treat them like crap by acting like some crusading hero.”
That is just so stupid.. so inane.. so lacking in any historical knowledge. You could only write this as an AC.

“care to counter his argument with some facts of your own? or just say that 1 statement and expect people to believe you versus the evidence in his statement”

” The Western countries invaded Iran went they violated their UN Treaty by invading Kuwait. Once defeated, Iran repeatedly violated a truce/peace treaty The US enforced the treaty by removing the government that would not observed the UN sanctions. In the process, the general territory of the area called Iraq, needed a new government as the overthrown one, was tyrannical and not based on any rule of law. In the process of enforcing the treaty, government officials that did not surrender were eventually killed as they continued to lead an armed response to military forces charged to enforcing the agreement.
In any military action, local residents that harbored, supported or otherwise provided aid to combatants were impacted including death of them or their family. As in any case in war, some “innocent” bystanders were also killed or wounded.
The people were allowed to get together and design a framework to replace their tyrant government that existed before. There were national elections for vote for a constitutional government. Once the new government was in place, it failed. Given the immaturity of the people on self government and the total lack of any sense of nationhood this was the only reasonable expectation.

Anarchy has replaced the “new” government, as most of the citizens are are unable to find any way to take control of their country from various invasions of cults and home grown sects. The anarchy as created even more destruction, death and wounding that any one of the previous western nation actions. The anarchy is now overflowing into other “countries” in the area.

The United Nations invaded Iran when they invaded Kuwait. The “Leader” of Iran violated the peace treaty. FACT! (you might want to debate whether the US should have re-invade based on the violations.) (The French didn’t push back on the Germans when they violated the Treaty of Versailles by moving German troops moved into the Rhineland. They had some fun 4 years later.)
In war, burning fields and villages and otherwise destroying artifacts of human presence has been almost the very definition of War for the last 3000+ years. That is why most people don’t like war.. it is meant to the last straw.

What is basically forgotten is the “Esteemed Leader” of Iraq caused the the initial problem. When their Esteemed Leader starts screwing around with other countries and their allies (UN) and pisses them off by severe violations their Treaties (UN membership) .. the country does’t get to vote much any more.

Sort of like, if you murder my wife, and are convicted by the court, you don’t get to declare your own moral codes nor expect that you live your life like you did before.

As to breaking their moral laws, I don’t know what the crap that means. But to suggest that ISIL is acting on some moral code that can be allowed to exist is just beyond the pale. ISIL is a bunch of mentally defective aka infected with some rabies-like virus that needs to be cleansed from humanity. Ebola, HIV, and ISIL are just complete and deadly diseases that the world must expunge. I am not sure what AC meant by moral law.. like stoning woman adulterer? Like killing gays? If they want that as their legal code, I suppose I might let them get with their own program. But I sure as crap don’t want to have that debate with my next door neighbor in the US. It might work for them.. but that has NOT been proven as they have have had no viable self-government in 1500 years let alone that last 200 years. But I’m pretty sure that that regardless of what their constitution says, they can/will stone adulterers like the some Indians continue practicing SATI (widow burning).

If you want to move on to Afghanistan… an area without a country.. then let’s move on..

If and when any religious moral code allows, supports and encourages the “punishment” of offenders outside of their borders, then by ANY definition, that is an act of war; with all it attributes. No moral code enforcement that violates an individual’s natural rights can be allowed to span national borders. No individual, sect, or viral infected individuals can cross national borders without expecting international impact including war or other equivalent response.

As to Citizens or residents that harbor, support or otherwise cloth, feed, or provide comfort to their warrior class, well, they are liable. They HAVE to be. Is it okay to bomb the quartermaster but not the farmer that is bringing the food? Is it okay to bomb the armored trucks that delivery the weapons, but not the local sailor that landed them? Is it okay to bomb the military accountant, but not the people that deliver the money. If so, lets get rid of the middle man, aka targets. But we still have all those “locals” making/allowing/supporting it. They are the “problem”. In the best case, too primitive and naive to understand or care about the implications, but more likely, fully aware of the ethics involved.

And if you think the citizens are too timid, stupid, scared or uneducated to take control and put their government back into some World wide accepted box, then I would suggest they are probably too weak, uneducated, and timid to define their own government and make it work. Ideas are not enough for a government. Africa proves that. Countries must have a citizen base that will FIGHT and KILL to make those ideas real. In the end, the historical ignorant administrations of both Bush and Obama thought that free elections would work in Iraq and Afganistan. That was/is just plan stupid as most of those people do NOT have any experience in self government and two, there is no sense of unity within the community to be governed. (US Revolution worked, French/Russian/USSR failed)

As to “meddle in their affairs”.. we have to agree that the society/culture was a failure because their leader, which they provided support for the Iraq invasion or otherwise harbored groups that created acts of war (bombing). I will “Meddle in the Affairs” of anyone that supported or otherwise allowed violation MY definition of Natural rights for me, my family or my community .. like the right to life.

Yes… My Natural Rights are supported by the UN. Anyone tool that thinks they can come into a country for unilateral retribution is creating an act of war. Any country that harbors, supports or otherwise encourages that behavior is an Allied. They own the implications of the acts. The leadership of those countries are responsible is and MUST be prepared for an appropriate response. The CITIZENS/Residents are ultimately responsible. They can NOT get / have a get out of War card.

Until cross section people / citizens (National or whatever term for the geographical area are willing to FIGHT and DIE for a rule of law aka government it will not stick. It will be expropriated by some tyrant. The US Revolution only worked when the Tories went back to the UK or Canada and all the colonies banded together for what was a touch and go for 15 years.

And to treating them like crap.. that is just “crap”.
The last 30 years of war by the Western powers (excluding Russia and the third world countries of likes of the Balkans) has wasted too much money and their own military’s lives protecting the “not so innocent” local citizens. And given they are part of the problem, meaning they were aiding and supporting regimes (aka governments) whose behavior was the justification for a call to war, they were treated better than almost ANY conquered people in history.

I could go on.. but I don’t have much time for naive, ignorant, and “the West is Evil” infected individuals.