UK Bill: Nursery Staff Must Let Us Know When Toddlers Are At Risk For Becoming Terrorists

from the er,-what? dept

Spying is just all the rage these days, you guys. The CIA is spying on Congress, we're all spying on each other, our eBook readers are spying on all our stuff, and the NSA is spying on the entire world. If you've been following Techdirt for any measure of time, you realize that any rebuttal of these policies is occasionally met with safety concerns, specifically when it comes to kids. "Think of the children!"

No, seriously, think of them. What if they are the real threat to the glory of freedom and peace? Well, the UK is taking this question head on by asking caregivers in the country's nurseries to inform the government if any of those little shits look like they're going to become radicalized.

The directive is contained in a 39-page consultation document issued by the Home Office in a bid to bolster its Prevent anti-terrorism plan. The document accompanies the Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill, currently before parliament. It identifies nurseries and early years childcare providers, along with schools and universities, as having a duty “to prevent people being drawn into terrorism”.

The consultation paper adds: “Senior management and governors should make sure that staff have training that gives them the knowledge and confidence to identify children at risk of being drawn into terrorism and challenge extremist ideas which can be used to legitimise terrorism and are shared by terrorist groups.
Oh, this should go well. Turning nurseries into tiny little spy centers where the staff are required to inform the state if they think that any children might become radicalized in the future sounds like a foolproof plan. Hey, Marge, do you think little Tommy might be a suicide bomber in the future. "No." What about cute little Jenny? "Nah." Okay, next we have to ask about sweet little Usman Jaffer? "IT'S HIM! IT'S HIM! I DONT' KNOW WHY, BUT I'M SURE IT'S HIM!"

Critics of the law, including some within the government, are equally unimpressed.
David Davis, the Conservative MP and former shadow home secretary, said: “It is hard to see how this can be implemented. It is unworkable. I have to say I cannot understand what they [nursery staff] are expected to do.

“Are they supposed to report some toddler who comes in praising a preacher deemed to be extreme? I don’t think so. It is heavy-handed.”
No kidding. As far as silly government requests of civilians went, I thought Chicago's "If you see something suspicious on public transportation, tell someone." campaign was as bad as it got. I mean, have they never ridden a CTA bus or train? Everyone's suspicious looking. But to try to get nannies involved in the spy game? C'mon guys, dial back the crazy a few notches.


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  • identicon
    Baron von Robber, 8 Jan 2015 @ 11:45am

    So next time I see little Jimmy standing in the corner, think Toto.

    Terrorist On Time Out.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 11:49am

    They don't call it a Nanny State for nothing...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Divide by Zero (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 11:50am

    The Nanny State isn't a term you're supposed to take literally, governments.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 11:52am

    Please, give the nanny's a break! The already have to run everything! Soon they won't have time to make sure people aren't smoking.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 11:56am

    Think of the children!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:01pm

    Report the Toddler

    Dear Mr. Cameron PM,

    I should like to report a toddler that has some weird tendencies. He seems to be schizophrenic, sometimes going by the name Timothy Geigner, and sometimes by the name Tim Cushing, as you can see he is very confused. He also uses two different aliases, Dark Helmet and Capitalist Lion Tamer (talk about weird, huh?). In both cases (er...personalities) he suggests that [REDACTED] is evil. Since most of what he (er they) talk about IS evil, then he or they must BE evil.

    I am hoping that you may take care of this (these) potential terrorists before they actually graduate from Kindergarten as he (they) will be doubly (quadrupaly?) dangerous in the first grade.

    Yours Truly,

    Mike Streisand Effect Masnick

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    LduN (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:04pm

    100% legit, will work. Keep me informed as to how well this goes. Might I suggest starting in Wales first?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Josh (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:10pm

    ideas

    "extremist ideas" What would they consider extreme? Things that the media doesn't regurgitate? Questioning how the government is run? Asking "why" instead of accepting without question what their teachers tell them?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:18pm

      Re: ideas

      What would they consider extreme?

      Fans of James over Thomas?
      Kermit over Fozzie?
      Kids who LIKE vegetables?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:29pm

      Re: ideas

      Kids who think bribes are wrong
      Kids who believe lieing in politics is unacceptable
      Kids who think secret spying governments are unacceptable
      Kids who care for ALL life
      Kids who believe we are all equal
      Kids who believe laws are'nt suppose to be bought
      Kids who exibit any signs of a caring sharing nature, instead of a profit orientated nature

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:31pm

        Re: Re: ideas

        Kids who show signs of an original thought without outside influence........an, unathorised thought if you will

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 9:46pm

      Re: ideas

      dissent is terrorism when the terrorists themselves are running the country

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:11pm

    Labeling a child early in their life so they can be put on a blacklist that will effect their future prospects. Is something an extremist would do.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:46pm

      Re:

      One flavour of extreme on one side, another flavour of extreme on the other side, and we're all smack bam in the middle of it all

      Enough!

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:07pm

        Re: Re:

        2025 American anthem

        Well I don't know why I came here tonight,
        I got the feeling that something ain't right
        Im scared incase i fall off my chair,
        And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs,
        Terrorists to the left of me,
        Terrorists to the right, here I am,
        Stuck in the middle with you.

        Bemusement aside i sure hope i dont get techdirt in trouble with the big bad powerful mpaa by using the letters abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 9 Jan 2015 @ 12:44am

          Re: Re: Re:

          You didn't actually use b, j, p, q, v, or z in your main reply. Try harder next time and then they may sue you.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:33pm

      Re:

      Scarring the children, one life at a time

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Ninja (profile), 9 Jan 2015 @ 1:19am

      Re:

      Precisely. Our beloved leaders are much, much worse than any ISIS lunatic. Such lunatics can be combated via arms. What can you do about the ones in Government in reality?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:13pm

    Well they've gone and started using "Terrorism" interchangeably with "Unpatriotic" now.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:52pm

      Re:

      We've had terrorist throughout our histories

      You've got those terrorist that gained independance from the british and created that thing thats suppose to give people more rights then they deserve

      And we had that spout of terrorists that one time that someohow managed to put the notion into peoples minds that we are all equal regardless of skin

      These terrorists are always fucking up our shit

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Ben (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:13pm

    Prevent what?

    ... bolster its Prevent anti-terrorism plan.
    So, why are they against terrorists?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      phils, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:29pm

      Re: Prevent what?

      If they are trying to bolster a Prevent anti-terrorism plan that must mean they are in favor of more terrorism.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:18pm

    Baby Terrorists!

    And you people thought it was a mistake for babies to be on the no fly list in the US! That was most certainly on purpose!

    Or the time a plane kicked a baby off for saying "bye bye plane" repeatedly! Obviously the baby was making terrorist threats!

    We never know when babies might be plotting to kill us all in a suicide attack! Don't be fooled by those innocent looking eyes, behind them might lurk another evil terrorist!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Berenerd (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:24pm

    Little Timmy seems to be following Little Tommy around...THEY MUST BE A SLEEPER CELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Roger Strong (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:26pm

    November: A company in the U.K. makes news for developing a new vegetable called Brussel-Kale, which is a hybrid of Brussels sprouts and kale.

    December: Kids in the UK to learn a valuable lesson: Santa loves rich kids more.

    January: The UK government suspects kids of becoming terrorists.

    Well of course.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    lars626, 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:27pm

    Terrorist toddlers

    My wives college room mate once made the comment that her three year old was going to grow up to be an "international terrorist". He grew up and became a highly respected police officer.

    I suspect that if you start treating them as terrorists early enough that they will become one just to take revenge on you.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      AricTheRed (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:10pm

      Re: Terrorist toddlers

      "He grew up and became a highly respected police officer."

      If he's on the NYPD her earlier prediction of "international terrorist" might still be accurate.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      David, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:37pm

      Re: Terrorist toddlers

      her three year old was going to grow up to be an "international terrorist". He grew up and became a highly respected police officer.

      Sometimes you have to settle for what the market has to offer. At least in this profession he should be able to make good use of his skill set.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:41pm

      Re: Terrorist toddlers

      "I suspect that if you start treating them as terrorists early enough that they will become one just to take revenge on you."

      Profound statement is profound, which leads me to think whether they already know that or are just stupid

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 3:14pm

      Re: Terrorist toddlers

      That sounds like something a Communist would say.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Berenerd (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:29pm

    It all makes sense. All these kids in the US "accidentally" shooting their parents and siblings with guns that their parents left loaded and hanging around with the safety off...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 12:36pm

    I can see it now.....

    Care giver: Little johnny is a terrorist!

    Govt: What makes you think that?

    Care Giver: He was pointing his half eaten PopTart at other kids saying pew, pew, pew!

    Govt: This is very troubling behaviour!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:00pm

    Brilliant!

    Think of it from a 1984 point of view. How do you control the next generation? You teach them how and what to think when they are young. Anyone who might be against you in the future will be retaught,

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:17pm

    I love the double standards. Too young to X because they haven't fully matured mentally, but it's never too early to ruin someone's life forever.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:22pm

    Is it any wonder that people with some modicum of common sense are calling out the crazy in this? Now think about it, if the security agencies have devolved into thinking this is a valid concern, just how far out there are they when it comes to the real world? I mean this is right out of some of these insane movies of the future, only it is with us now.

    With idiots like this thinking this is a good policy to implement, is it any wonder why so much of the world is in turmoil and how much of it is a direct result of just such mentality?

    If ever there was proof that the whole government, much less the security side needs reigned in, this should be the wake up call. China's actions in dealing with it's population are seeming less and less strange given the actions of our perspective governments.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:45pm

      Re:

      I mean........these are the people in power........how the fuck do you trust a government who let these people in power......tell me

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    David, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:24pm

    Did I miss something here?

    I thought children were the epitomes of terrorism anyway.

    That's why nature evolved them to have weak limbs. They grow strong only once they are old enough to have had a reasonable chance of becoming responsible. There are ages of legal responsibility (and according reductions of parental governing responsibility) and of consent.

    Now of course it is understandable that the UK wants to have a close look at who might grow up to retain antisocial behavior, a dysfunctional conscience, blind faith in authority figures and other signs of mental immaturity. Which government wouldn't?

    Just to call dibs on their recruitment. Not everybody is suitable for operating drones (killer and spy drones), wiretapping equipment and other stuff the government needs done on people suspected to have cheered the wrong side.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:25pm

    Cowardly and fucking disgusting

    Preying on impressionable minds in order to be the one that "educates" on how things "should" be according to the almighty master peasant food chain

    Its not about terrorisism, its about manipulation of easier to manipulate impressionable minds before they get some sense of independance to have CRITICAL thought, i.e. their dwindling current base

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:27pm

    Their scared of becoming irrelevant......and loosing all the benefits they infringe

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:38pm

    Swat team
    "Mam, why do you believe the baby is a radical?"

    Caregiver
    "He said no to the medicine"

    Swat team
    "You're right mam, clear case of terrorism, nigel, bring some water"

    Caregiver
    "Oh thankyou Mr Swat man, i cant say how much i respect what you do"

    Swat
    "Just doing my job mam................MOVE OUT TEAMS G.O.T.Y.R.E.N.T AND S, we've got reports of a todler rampaging a bus.....apparently its got a WMD that creates some sort of annoying crying like sound......westminister is pepering a statement..........GO!GO!GO"

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    John Fenderson (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 1:40pm

    Radicalization: the deeper problem

    This bill is sublime in both its cluelessness and insanity. However, it strikes me as being just another manifestation of a terrible notion: that "radicalization" is a problem that must be stamped out. That's just another way of saying that thought itself must be controlled by the state.

    "Radicalization" is not only a totally subjective term, but trying to stop it is like trying to cure a cold by taking decongestants. It's treating a symptom rather than the underlying problem, and exacerbated the whole situation by actively hiding the underlying problem, allowing it to spread without anyone noticing.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:08pm

    Anti-Revolution Bill

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:14pm

    Third Reich approves this message

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:22pm

    " I have to say I cannot understand what they [nursery staff] are expected to do. "

    Its so they can have a "legal" framework excuse to invade someones life bypasing the rights of an individual thats suppose to prevent them from doing that, without looking like the tyranical government they're becoming.......become?

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      David, 9 Jan 2015 @ 11:23pm

      Re:

      Waterboard the toddler until he confesses where he has been schooled. Deprive him of sleep until he rats out his friends. Lock his head in cage with feral rats...

      Wait, is this really the guidelines from the Ministry of Education?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:35pm

    Jihadi Tommy Junior

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:43pm

    If the UK wants to put a stop to this...

    ...put HRH George on that list.


    I'd bet that program would come to a halt really fast!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 2:44pm

    What next, strip search and check of body cavities before allowing entry to a public school? One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. May you live in interesting times.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 5:11pm

    Just Check Medicaid Records

    Just check the Medicaid records for Ritalin.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 6:23pm

    In the 2000's Australia's terrorism catch cry was 'Be Alert'.

    Of course, it was changed to 'Be Alert, Australia needs more of them'.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Coyne Tibbets (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 6:36pm

    Just so darned easy

    And just how do we, "...identify children at risk of being drawn into terrorism..."?

    Well, it's easy: Muslim!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Early Years, 8 Jan 2015 @ 7:02pm

    A rolemodel

    I mean like hell all these little buggers have to do is look to TV for a role model... early years Stewie Griffin anyone?? (We're stuffed once they get the time travel device functioning)

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    johnvanvliet (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 8:06pm

    re

    early labeling of a child would restrict the opportunities of said child

    this WILL BE a self fulfilling prophecy

    it WILL create those "terrorists" you want to stop

    can you say--" The terrorist known as V "

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    tqk (profile), 8 Jan 2015 @ 8:36pm

    You people have completely missed the point!

    *Every* grown up terrorist who ever lived was once a toddler! Think about that. Honestly, how can you expect us to protect you when you question everything we try to do ... for you?

    Just wait, in ten years time, every single person in the country will be on a terrorist watch list so we won't need to fart around with warrants or rights or any of that poofter crap anymore, and you'll all finally be safe forever! Now get back to work and stop bugging, er, bothering us.

    PS. Tim, April Fools is almost three months away, damnit!

    Sheesh. Try to do the right thing and look what you get.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 8 Jan 2015 @ 9:17pm

    pre crime is becoming a reality among American police, why not have the fascists start even earlier with toddlers or in the womb even

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 9 Jan 2015 @ 3:54am

    I actually live in the UK.

    The government here actually make me want to become a terrorist. Esp. with the anti-freedom crap they pull.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Just Another Anonymous Troll, 9 Jan 2015 @ 5:15am

    Time to report some high level politicians who support this, heh heh heh.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 9 Jan 2015 @ 6:41am

    What toddler isn't a terrorist? They are going through the mine phase and run around like little assholes. They just need a turban and they'll be set.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 9 Jan 2015 @ 9:02am

    "Yes, I'd like to report a toddler. He has no regard for authority, is often violent, and seems to have a blatant disregard for dangerous situations."

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Jigsy, 9 Jan 2015 @ 8:15pm

    Toddler won't eat his greens? He's a terrorist.
    Toddler won't go to bed? He's a terrorist.
    Toddler being loud and obnoxious? He's a terrorist...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 15 Jan 2015 @ 5:05pm

    UK is a fascist country.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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