LAPD Officer Says Tragedies Could Be Prevented If Citizens Would Just Shut Up And Do What Cops Tell Them To

from the NOW,-DO-YOU-UNDERSTAND-WHY-I'M-BEATING-YOU? dept

In the continuing furor that is Ferguson, Missouri, someone is finally asking, "Won't anyone think of the poor police officers?" Naturally, the person raising this question is a police officer -- a 17-year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department. And the question isn't so much being raised as it is being thrown in the reader's face.

Sunil Dutta wants to make a point about the difficulties faced by police officers every day. But he does so by boiling down his argument to little more than, "Shut your mouth or I'll beat your ass." Dutta begins by stating the obvious:

[C]ops are not murderers. No officer goes out in the field wishing to shoot anyone, armed or unarmed.
Sure. And most people aren't saying that cops are murderers. But they are calling them out for deploying excessive or deadly force far too often. That's homicide (in the rare cases when it results in charges). Murder is premeditated and while there are likely a very small number of cops who commit murder, there is a far larger percentage deploying excessive force -- force that sometimes results in death.

Once Dutta's erected his strawman, he casts about seeking to validate the sort of force escalation that seems far too common these days. It's not cops that are bad, it's just that people won't listen.
Regardless of what happened with Mike Brown, in the overwhelming majority of cases it is not the cops, but the people they stop, who can prevent detentions from turning into tragedies.
Now that Dutta has made it clear that the public needs to exercise self-control because many police officers clearly can't, he moves on to explaining why it's so hard for officers to resist deploying excessive/deadly force.
Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority.
I'm still unclear as to when police officers were guaranteed a "safety zone" while on patrol and the rest of this plea for sympathy is similarly misguided. Scott Greenfield makes the obvious point that taking a job as cop is to willingly place yourself in situations where people become irate at your very existence.
Did someone tell you at the Academy that the public would be showering you with kisses and adoration? Perhaps they suggested you would carry all that cool hardware on your service belt because people would get in your personal space to request your autograph, you rock star you. Oh wait. You were a cop. Your job was to deal with people who were often unpleased to see you. Are you complaining? Do you want to give back your pension?
After illustrating how he resolved a potentially dangerous situation without force, Dutta moves on to explain why nearly any use of force is justified. There's only one way to (almost) guarantee that a police officer like Dutta won't move past an "ostentatious display of the lethal (and nonlethal) hardware resting in my duty belt" and into full deployment of the mini-arsenal. And that's to never do anything that might signal your respect for the police officer "interacting" with you is anything less than 100%.
[I]f you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?
Dutta says "cooperate," no matter what. No matter if you're just being hassled for being in the wrong place at the wrong time or if you're the wrong color or just walking insouciantly, when a cop orders you to do something, do it. But this isn't "cooperation." That word suggests people working together. What Dutta demands is something else entirely. Scott Greenfield breaks it down:
When you use the word “cooperate,” you do so applying the cop definition. We, non-cops, are to cooperate with you, cop. We, as you’ve already told us, are to do as you say. Your idea of cooperation has nothing whatsoever to do with cooperation. It’s just a much better word than “comply or I will inflict pain, perhaps even death…"
The problem is that life isn't nearly as clear cut as Dutta portrays it. There are nuances at play at any given time, but Dutta only sees it as black and white. Submit or pay the price. That's how Dutta defines "cooperation."
The disconnect seems to be that the public just won’t do whatever a cop says. Sometimes they won’t do it fast enough. Sometimes, they don’t do it right enough. Sometimes, they won’t do it at all. Your solution is just do it or you’ve brought the wrath of the police down on your own head.
Among the many problems with Dutta's column is this: he expects the public to have respect for law enforcement while officers show an active disrespect for the laws governing their behavior. He throws this sentence into the mix without a hint of self-awareness.
Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.
This legal prohibition doesn't seem to be prohibiting the use of excessive force. And the words "stop resisting" are muttered over and over again as personal permission slips to deliver more blows, whether or not the suspect is actually resisting. Cops are given desk duty or paid suspensions for violating this law while those on the receiving end spend time in the hospital… or the morgue.

Dutta also delivers this remarkable paragraph with a straight face.
But if you believe (or know) that the cop stopping you is violating your rights or is acting like a bully, I guarantee that the situation will not become easier if you show your anger and resentment. Worse, initiating a physical confrontation is a sure recipe for getting hurt. Police are legally permitted to use deadly force when they assess a serious threat to their or someone else’s life. Save your anger for later, and channel it appropriately. Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don’t challenge a cop during a stop.
Take your beating and sue later! Enjoy having your future destroyed by bullshit charges! Our justice system presumes you're innocent, except for all the evidence otherwise! Let the system runs its course, with citizens molested and cops unmolested! Use your time and money to sue us and watch the courts grant us immunity! Use YOUR OWN MONEY (taxes) to pay for our misdeeds in the odd event that a settlement is agreed to!

If this is the argument for police actions in Ferguson, it's an insanely shitty one. If this is what passes for justification, then it's clear there's no excuse for excessive force. No one truly believes all cops are murderers, but there's enough harboring the potential to do serious harm that citizens are justifiably wary that any encounter with police officers could go horribly wrong -- especially if they attempt to stand up for the rights these officers deny them.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    Ninja (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 4:48am

    Oh, we found out who our obnoxious Whatever friend is. Hello Mr Dutta!

    Ahem.

    Now imagine if someone tried to make use of their rights to remain silent and not give any passwords to their mobile phones without a warrant from a judge... Bad, bad citizen, the cops know better! Warrants are a hassle. Now give me that password and answer my questions or else! *points at baton*

     

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    That One Guy (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 4:50am

    Grow up or go home

    Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority.

    Cops, by the very nature of their job, are going to see people at their worst. They are going to encounter people who've just had something terrible or tragic happen, people who are under intense stress and are looking to lash out, to somehow deal with the situation, to get some measure of 'control' back into their lives.

    This may take the form of 'curses', it may take the form of 'screaming tantrums', or something similarly drastic or 'confrontational'.

    Cops also, by the nature of their job and the power and authority vested in that position are quite often seen as a threat. They are people who can, at a whim, make your life miserable, carry, and are allowed to use, such 'delightful' items as batons, tazers, pepper spray, and pistols. People who have few actual limits as to what they can do to a member of the public, but who are protected, extremely so, by the system and their fellow officers from the public.

    It should go without saying that people that are seen as a threat, generally don't get the warmest welcome.

    Given the above, the various reasons people aren't going to be on their best around cops, and the fact that none of this should be a surprise to anyone who is, or is looking to become, a cop, if he, or any other officer can't maintain a professional demeanor around this sort of response from the public, if they can't remain civil and polite even if the other person isn't, I've a simple suggestion: Get another job. Because if they can't handle that sort of stuff, then they don't deserve the position and power they have as police.

    Whining about how 'hard' the job is is just that, whining. They knew how hard the job was before going in(or they should have anyway), and yet they took it anyway, if they can't handle it, get out, and let someone more qualified take their place.

     

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  3.  
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    Digger, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:20am

    @ L.A.P.D. Officer - STFU

    No police officer has the authority to commit an illegal act. period.
    No police officer has any authority when they are bullying or harassing people for the fun of it.
    No police officer has any legal standing when they ignore people's Constitutional rights.
    No police officer is above the law.

    So Mr. High and Mighty L.A.P.D. Officer, what I say to you is - shut the fuck up you pathetic little whiner.
    Do you know why you get cursed at? Yelled at? Called vile names? It's because your brethren, predecessors and hell, possibly even you do all of the above, which makes the people that you work for angry.
    Guess what happens you piss off your bosses. You get fired, you get demoted, you get thrown out. Since you cops think that just because you wear a badge you have the right to do anything you want, say anything you want, harass anyone you want, you're going to get treated like the scum you are.

    Act professional. Act within the letter as well as intent of the law. Arrest your fellow officers that do not comply with this. Prevent abuse and harassment by your fellow officers. Take the time to talk to those people who you normally just stare down at from your high horse. Get to know them, they're usually pretty good people who are scared of what you're going to do to them today. People get angry and do stupid shit when scared, so stop scaring them, stop angering them, stop the abuses of the police state.

    We the people are the law, you the police officers are the ones who were hired, by us, to enforce it. If you cannot or will not do the job correctly, we the people will take action and remove you from the job in whatever way necessary. Does that sound like a threat? It's not - it's just common sense. Something that is sorely lacking in today's police departments and governments.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:31am

    Respect My Authoritah!

    "Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority."

    Perhaps you are in the wrong line of work.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:34am

    "[I]f you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you."

    Is this what they tell underage teenage girls in the backseat of the police cruiser?

     

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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:34am

    Sunil Dutta: I'm a cop - just cooperate, please

     

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    Haywood (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:37am

    Unsuitable by nature

    Cop is sort of like President; anyone willing to accept the position is unsuitable to fill it.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:42am

    Tell that to those who lost people during 9/11.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:46am

    Re:

    9/11 didn't change the constitution, nor did it give the right for the cops to become criminal thugs.

     

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    Votre (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:49am

    Colorado is pretty far away for me. Is there any place local where I can take his Gestapo 101 course?

     

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    Prashanth (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:50am

    LAPD Disclaimer

    I thought it was interesting how there was a disclaimer at the top of the article saying that his views were his alone and not meant to be representative of the LAPD's general stance. The sad part is that those views probably are representative.
    Regardless, I was quite disgusted upon reading this article. He paid some lip service to the ACLU and its "types", yet promptly undermined said lip service with the rest of his article.

     

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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:09am

    And once again, he will probably not have to suffer any consequences for his statements.

    He should be immediately fired. He is clearly not interested in "protecting" or "serving". Time for another line of work.

     

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    JEDIDIAH, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:12am

    Truthful but wrongful...

    At a certain level, what he is saying is right and will probably be backed up by your lawyer. You cannot win by directly confronting a cop. The best you can do is hope to survive the encounter and let your lawyer sort things out later.

    Of course the kids in Ferguson don't have the luxury of a lawyer and likely feel they have nothing to lose anyways.

    The powers that be tend to gravely underestimate the dangers of allowing such desperation to fester.

     

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    David, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:14am

    Why were the Germans the bad guys in WW2?

    All they did is what the SS and SA told them to, and they cooperated like any proper American would and should.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:14am

    And we shouldn't feel unsafe when approached by an armed person?

    aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone

    So having someone with a gun detain me isn't an encroachment on my safety zone? What about when that armed person tells me to delete photos/videos legally taken from a public place of a public place/event? Should I comply to an unlawful order?

    and outright challenges to my authority

    Here is the real problem, the challenge to his authority. Cops these days see everyone as the enemy and we must submit to their authority even when they exceed their lawful authority.

     

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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:16am

    Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you.

    Ladies: do what the rapist tells you to and it will end safely for both of you.

    Children: do what the molester tells you to and it will end safely for both of you.

    Journalists: do what the government tells you to and it will end safely for both of you.

    Jews: do what the Nazi tells you to and it will end safely for both of you.


    ...I'm not sure his advice is very good...

     

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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:18am

    Re: Truthful but wrongful...

    No.

    The problem needs to be fixed BEFORE there is a stop. If our police departments are in a state in which compliance with ANY order from a police officer is required to avoid injury, we need to get our police departments fixed.

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:20am

    Re: @ L.A.P.D. Officer - STFU

    Beautifully put. Apparently this cop has forgotten that he is a public SERVANT.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:23am

    So, Mr Officer, does that mean I should stop recording you even if it is a constitutional right of mine? Should I refuse consent for you to search the electronic contents of my phone even though this is also protected?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:27am

    He isn't the only one saying this

    It's kind of amazing too see the comments on here so glibly assaulting the cops.
    While I am not condoning anything that happened in Missouri, the facts aren't all in yet, there seems to be a double standard on this site.
    On the one hand, your express the belief that all users of a service like torrents should not be judged by the few who abuse it, but you then flip around and blame all police for the actions of a very small minority of bad actors.

    There have been multiple reports of as many as 12 witnesses describing the events in Ferguson almost exactly as reported by the officer, yet none have been referenced on this site. What about the autopsies, none of which were handled by local authorities, that also back the officer's account, and not the witness (friend) of the victim.

    So which is it? Are all guilty because of the few bad actors, or should we hold only those who acted badly accountable for their actions?

     

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    That One Guy (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:28am

    Re: Truthful but wrongful...

    When 'make it out without being sent to the hospital/morgue' becomes the goal of dealing with an cop with an axe to grind and/or who feels like cracking some skulls, things have gone very, very wrong.

    Worse still, the fact that such sociopaths and sadists know that they can get away with pretty much anything at all, up to and including murder, so if they really feel like getting a workout, there's really not much a non-cop can do to stop them. Sit back and take it, and hope you don't get hospitalized/killed, or defend yourself, and definitely get hospitalized/killed.

    And yeah, for those cops who are banking on using fear, or the threat of violence to keep people in line, that only works so far. If maintained for too long, or if it reaches past a certain level, simple animal survival instinct pretty much demands that you remove the source of the fear/threat, and when that happens, it's not going to be pretty for those little tyrants/thugs, and they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:28am

    Feel free to sue the police!

    Just like Adam Carolla was free to counter-sue the patent troll!

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:29am

    Facebook

    My news feed had Dutta's article tagged [satire].

     

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    art guerrilla (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:34am

    Re: LAPD Disclaimer

    no, i'm betting he *is* as 'good' a kop as we can get, and THAT is the damning aspect: the most educated, 'liberal', thoughtful, 'reasonable' kop who teaches other kops, is STILL a fucking arrogant, entitled pig at heart ! ! !
    that is the takeaway...

    of course, if he had just a teeny-tiny bit of self-awareness, he might wonder if HE -as a brown-skinned man- would be jacked up by all his 'buddies' (read: goons for the state) if he got crosswise with them... no doubt, he would defend their right to kick the shit out of him, since he was -you know- a 'threatening' brown-ish color...

     

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  25.  
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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:35am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    I agree that the details of the original incident are unclear at this time (and I have commented as such several times).

    What IS clear at this point is that the police in Ferguson have mishandled EVERYTHING since then. They responded to protesters with riot gear and armored vehicles, they responded to members of the press with tear gas and handcuffs, and they have responded to the public response to all of this with escalation.

    Then you add in jack-wagon's like the one this article is referring to clearly claiming that the public needs to comply with any order, legal or not, from a police officer to avoid injury and you have a very big problem.

    Most of the articles condemning police activity have been about specific incidents and the HUGE problem of police unions and departments covering them up or letting the officers off with little or no punishment. Yes, these problems may be getting caused by a few bad actors, but the bad actors have managed to get their unions to expand the problem exponentially. The problems are becoming pervasive.

     

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    Ninja (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:36am

    Re: @ L.A.P.D. Officer - STFU

    Ferguson has shown that when cops actually serve the public even the worst escalated situations can come back to normality.

     

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    art guerrilla (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:38am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    so, smart guy, please tell me the voluminous instances of 'good' kops turning in their 'bad' kop buddies...

    yeah, i thought so: when 'good' kops ignore or cover up for bad kops, that makes them ALL BAD KOPS...

     

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    TheResidentSkeptic (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:38am

    Here's a novel approach..

    try "asking" instead of "telling" or "demanding".

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:43am

    Re:

    What does 9/11 have to do with this issue?

     

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    That One Guy (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:44am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    but you then flip around and blame all police for the actions of a very small minority of bad actors.

    You know why the police in general get slammed for the actions of the minority of truly rotten cops among them? Because rather than hold their own accountable, rather than demand that fellow cops who abuse their authority be held to the same standards and laws that they insist the public follow... more often then not, they look the other way. They go silent. They don't hold their own accountable, instead protecting them from any possible repercussions for their actions.

    When the 'good' cops cover for, and enable the actions of, the 'bad' cops, they cease to be 'good' cops, and are no better than the 'few bad actors' that they protect.

    What about the autopsies, none of which were handled by local authorities, that also back the officer's account, and not the witness (friend) of the victim.

    You mean the autopsy that found no trace of any gunpowder residue on the body, suggesting pretty strongly he was shot at a distance, despite the police claiming he was shot while trying to grab the gun?

    That 'backing' evidence?

     

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    Richard (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:46am

    Re: Re:

    Tell that to those who lost people during 9/11.

    I was brought up with the saying "Two wrongs don't make a right!"

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:47am

    Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority.

    Ya, well that sounds like every damn customer service job in the civilian world. The difference being we don't have the option to beat someone's face into a bloody mess and lock them in a cage for talking trash to us.

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:48am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    "On the one hand, your express the belief that all users of a service like torrents should not be judged by the few who abuse it, but you then flip around and blame all police for the actions of a very small minority of bad actors."

    No double standard at all.

    I don't blame all police for the actions of a minority of bad actors. I blame all police for their outright support & protection of the bad actors in their ranks.

    Things like torrents are protocols, not people making some kind of judgement. Protocols are truly neutral -- they don't rally around defending and supporting people who use them for illegal purposes.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:50am

    Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    I know your question is rhetorical, but I'll comment anyway.

    Please show me where this has transpired in the incident in Ferguson.

    The cops may have mishandled things, but no one is covering anything up, unless you know something the rest of the population doesn't.

     

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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:51am

    Re: Re:

    AAAHHH!!!!!! TERRORISM!!!!

    Shut up and comply!

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:51am

    I never have a problem with cops. Every time they stop me I whisper to ask them if their camera is running. Once I find out it is, or if there is someone around within earshot, I start screaming "I will not blow you to get out of going to jail! You'd better just take me in now!"

    Stopped 37 times in the last year. No tickets, no arrests. Fuck the cops. We already know the vast majority aren't committing the atrocities, but they're complicit in it. They're not arresting the cops that are breaking the law. So I'll say it again: Fuck the cops. They're all fucking worthless.

     

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    Whatever, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:52am

    You guys are too funny

    If the police come across anyone wielding a potential weapon, be it a Wiimote or a cellphone, it's an affront to their authority. It's an obstacle to them getting their job done. Of course these have to be dealt with. How hard is it to understand?

     

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    Richard (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:53am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    On the one hand, your express the belief that all users of a service like torrents should not be judged by the few who abuse it, but you then flip around and blame all police for the actions of a very small minority of bad actors.

    Torrent users aren't armed and don't have any authority.

    A legal torrent user is not in a position to police other torrent users - whilst cops can blow the whistle on the behaviour of other cops.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:54am

    Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Yes the same autopsy with no GSR that also doesn't fit the witness(friend) who claimed his buddy shot in the back and executed by the cop while standing over him. That one.

    You guys keep referring to incidents that didn't happen in Ferguson. No one has covered anything up. Responded disproportionately, yes. Mishandled the release of the video and the officer's name, yes. Covered up a misdeed, no.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:55am

    "Police are legally permitted to use deadly force..."

    That right derives from the basic right of the citizen, not some special "kop rulez."

    Sheesh, and this guy would prob'ly wonder why I carry a large caliber semi-auto pistol! Hint - it's not all about radicalized Muslim terrorists and violent (non-cop) criminals.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:56am

    Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Again, a reference to something that did not happen in this case.

    As for the armed part. The gun is tool, not the threat. the person wielding the gun is the threat.

     

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  42.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:59am

    Re: Re:

    All of this has been accelerated since 911 because... terrorists.
    DHS has been militarizing local police forces because... terrorists.
    NSA has been collecting all electronic communications because... terrorists.
    -
    A lot of bad legislation has been written since 911 because... terrorists.
    -
    So yeah, it has everything to do with 911.

     

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  43.  
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    jackn, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:59am

    Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    The cops tear-gassing Aljezera.
    The cops arresting the reporters in the mcdonalds.
    The cop yelling "bring it on...etc.."

    what will happen to these terrorists?

     

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  44.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:02am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    We should gather them all and lynch them right?

     

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  45.  
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    avg iq of a cop, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:03am

    avg iq of a cop

    http://politicalblindspot.com/police-officially-refuse-to-hire-applicants-with-high-iq-scores/

    nuff said , me thinks we don't need to be told shit from stupid fucks

     

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  46.  
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    xebikr (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:06am

    Re:

    I was going to point this out. I worked customer service for years, and the only difference with what I and my co-workers experienced was that my authority was never challenged because I had none.

    Make no mistake: this guy is dangerous. He absolutely believes he is right and is willing to back that up with force. He actually sounds like some kind of militant zealot.

     

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  47.  
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    Baron von Robber, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:09am

    "Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority."

    Guess he never worked in an Emergency Room at a hospital.

     

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  48.  
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    orbitalinsertion (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:09am

    Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Everything, all action, taken by the police in Ferguson since the the protests started is illegal. heir actions are atrocities. And furthermore, you never, ever, ever point a damned weapon at anyone unless you are under dire threat and intend to use it immediately.

    So, they need to form a big-ass circle and cuff each other, have a Miranda party, call their little union reps, and harch their asses into jail.

    There wasn't a claim of a cover up. There were two options in that statement, and they are general to all police activity, not specific to Ferguson. "May have mishandled"? Ya gotta be kidding me.

    BTW, what do you call a cherry-picked straw man?

     

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  49.  
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    orbitalinsertion (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:12am

    Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Yep. Cops are threats.

    Again, a reference to something that did not happen in this case.


    What are you even talking about at this point?

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:19am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    It's kind of amazing too see the comments on here so glibly assaulting the cops./

    A cop just told us all that cops have no self-control.

    A cop basically just warned everyone that cops are a threat to the people they're meant to serve.

    Is repeating his words assaulting the cops?

     

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  51.  
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    jackn, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Are you suggesting these bad actors should go un-punished?

     

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  52.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:21am

    Re:

    "Stopped 37 times in the last year."

    Holy crap! What are you doing, flipping the bird at every cop you see?

     

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  53.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:21am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Its more than a "few bad actors." Its the whole lot of em. Its the mentality being taught. Lemme guess... you're a pig right?
    -
    6 holes were put into that young man.
    "yet none have been referenced on this site"
    You have not posted any links either. Citation needed.
    -
    http://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2014/08/ferguson_autopsy_editorial_car.html

    It's easy to understand why the Ferguson community has little faith they will get any justice from the police department who are supposed to be there to serve them. After being shot at least six times, Michael Brown's body was left lying in the street for at least 5 hours. It was people in the neighborhood who first covered his body with a sheet, not the police. After they finally get around to explaining why Michael Brown received the death penalty for jaywalking and resisting a police officer, I'd like to hear the FPD's explanation for leaving him in the street for hours to be covered by citizens.
    -
    FUCK THE POLICE!!!

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    As stated in my original post. "While I am not condoning anything that happened in Missouri, the facts aren't all in yet, there seems to be a double standard on this site."

    And the cover-up thing was stated many times in response to my post.

    "yeah, i thought so: when 'good' kops ignore or cover up for bad kops, that makes them ALL BAD KOPS..."

    "Most of the articles condemning police activity have been about specific incidents and the HUGE problem of police unions and departments covering them up or letting the officers off with little or no punishment."

    These are the comments to which I was responding.

    I see no straw man. Nor do I see a tin man or a lion.

     

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  55.  
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    beech, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:24am

    half life 2 anyone?

    "Pick up that can. "

     

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  56.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:25am

    Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    From what I read, the killing shot entered the top of the head, exited out the right eye and then into his chest.

    Now being that he's around 6' 3", I think the cop would have to be around 22' tall to get off a shot like that if Brown was standing up.

    More likely, Brown was bending over from the previous hits, leaving the top of his head exposed to the shooter, facing him. And I'm pretty sure Brown is not Japanese, so he wasn't bowing to the shooter out of respect.

    Also, since Brown wasn't shirtless, gun powder residue (GPR), wouldn't likely be found on him unless it was point blank.

    There should be evidence on the shirt though if Brown was close enough.

     

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  57.  
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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:27am

    Re:

    Stopped 37 times in the last year

    Careful, you are widdling down your anonymity.

    We now know that you are in your 20's, black, and live in New York City.

     

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  58.  
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    jupiterkansas (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:28am

    he expects the public to have respect for law enforcement while officers show an active disrespect for the laws governing their behavior.

    This is the crux of it. If the police want respect, they need to obey the law, and not individually but as a force. No cop should let another cop get away with doing anything illegal. One bad apple spoils everything.

     

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  59.  
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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:29am

    Re:

    I'm not sure if he is a cop or a prostitute.

     

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  60.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:30am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    I am saying investigate first and then , if misconduct is found, punish appropriately.

    What do you suggest?

    It is easy to judge events when sitting comfortably in your desk chair feverishly typing rants about cops.

    It's a little more chaotic surrounded by thousands of people, where some (a small number to be sure)are throwing rocks and bottles at you, looting stores.

     

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  61.  
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    sorrykb (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:34am

    Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Damn blockquote typos. And that (#50) was me, in my not-yet-caffeinated-enough-to-sign-in mode.

     

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  62.  
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    sorrykb (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:37am

    Re:

    Votre wrote:
    Colorado is pretty far away for me. Is there any place local where I can take his Gestapo 101 course?

    Are you anywhere near Ferguson?

     

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  63.  
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    TMC, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:43am

    The cop is correct, cops are not murderers. That would require a court of law to find a cop guilty of killing another human being. This very rarely happens.

    No, cops are killers.

     

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  64.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:43am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    "I am saying investigate first and then , if misconduct is found, punish appropriately."

    I think everyone agrees with this. The problem is that there's nearly no chance that this will actually happen, if history is any guide. Misconduct is almost never punished in any real way.

     

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  65.  
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    Gwiz (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:44am

    Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority.


    Ummm. Most of that is completely legal. The speech, as long as it remains nonthreatening, non-libelous and within local statutes concerning obscenity and noise levels is protected.

    Also, in my state, I do not have to necessarily obey a policeman's order, especially if I believe it to be an unlawful command. This was upheld in People v Moreno, 2012 WL 1381039.

     

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  66.  
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    kenichi tanaka (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:45am

    I agree with the LAPD officer but not for the same reasons he states. It's true that there are a lot of people who don't listen to officers but that the number of people who don't listen aren't in the majority, they are in the minority.

    The problem is that there are too many cases where morons feel they have an entitlement to ignore what the officer is telling them and the majority of those who are sticking their noses up in the air to the cops are those looking to deliberately provoke the cops into doing something they can catch on video.

    Just a look at the majority of videos posted on youtube and you can see how these morons with their cameras deliberately go out of their way to make a spectacle out of themselves in order to create the next viral video and ti's simply gotten out of control. Here in Michigan, I have never had a problem with filming a police officer and I surely don't mouth off to the officer or act rude to them.

    Don't know about you guys, but a cop is a person just like any of us. You treat them with disrespect and, guess what? You're going to get disrespected right back.

     

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  67.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:49am

    Re: Unsuitable by nature

    Cops are like priests - the second they violate the trust that anyone has for them, they should be stripped of their position and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and anyone who covers up or fails to prosecute their illegal activities should be prosecuted as an accomplice. With greater public trust should come greater consequences for violating that trust, not less.

     

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  68.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:53am

    Re:

    "You treat them with disrespect and, guess what? You're going to get disrespected right back."

    We're not talking about "getting disrespected right back," we're talking about police abusing their powers. If the problem with the police was that they were just insulting in their demeanor, we'd be having a completely different discussion.

     

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  69.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:55am

    Every month or so we hear of another killing for some family member where the SWAT team got the wrong address for their raid. These no knock warrants give the impression that someone is breaking and entering and that it isn't law enforcement. Saying you are the police in a whisper just before breaking down the door at sunup when most people are still asleep gives all the impressions of a gestapo at work, not a public agency that is supposed to protect and serve.

    So how does an unconscious person obey and prevent getting shot? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj46x6P5gLs

    How does a man crying out for his father to help prevent him from being beat to death? http://www.salon.com/2014/01/14/cops_who_beat_homeless_man_to_death_walk_free/[1]

    When you're unconscious after being ejected from a vehicle how do you comply to prevent a beating? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj46x6P5gLs

    How do you stop a cop from executing you for illegal camping by shooting you in the back? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwytoxMuk4U

    This is by no where near all that goes on each week across the US. Why do you think citizens are up in arms over the treatment they are receiving from cops who get nothing more than a few days off for such actions?

    How would Mr. Sunil Dutta feel if the citizens of the US just got fed up with it and started protesting or decided it was fair game to shoot every cop they saw for self protection?

     

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  70.  
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    Michael, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:56am

    Re:

    a cop is a person just like any of us

    Absolutely not. A police officer is supposed to be held to a higher standard. They are supposed to receive training for handling situations like this and how to de-escalate them without violence. They are supposed to put protecting citizens lives above their own.

    A police officer should NEVER respond with physical violence to anything said to them that is not directly threatening. They should uphold the constitutional rights of all citizens. You should be able to walk up to any police officer and scream obscenities at them and as long as it is not interfering with their job, they should do nothing to stop you - free speech makes it your right to scream anything you want at them.

    If you hold them to citizen standards and call them "just human", citizens should be held to the same standards and it should be ok if they detain police officers at gunpoint and them release them later, it should be ok for them to carry automatic weapons, it should be ok for any citizen to beat a police officer with a night stick for not complying with an order. Clearly that is ridiculous. Police officers are supposed to be trained to handle situations better than citizens - if not, they should not be carrying deadly weapons.

     

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  71.  
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    Padpaw (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:00am

    ie "lick my boots or I will shoot you"

     

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  72.  
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    anon, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:00am

    Several issues -
    The problem is not good cops who do things by the book. The problem is when they don't. So all the "this is what you should do" is irrelevant.

    There are three situations that most likely cause these problems -

    Crazy public - there's always going to be someone high on whatever, or off their meds. Some just need force to deal with, some just need to be calmed down. A good cop needs to recognize and adapt to these and talk someone down, rather than yelling "Put the [knife, chair, bowling ball] down now and get on the ground or I shoot!" How well they talk their way through these turns a potential tragedy into an after work bar story. Police in England, for example, typically do NOT carry guns - so they have to rely on their uniform to carry the authority

    High Energy Situation - the adrenalin rush situation, chasing a suspect after shots are fired, this sort of thing; the cop is on a hair-trigger and may for example, make a stupid mistake or "jump the gun" (Literally) making mistakes like thinking a cellphone is a gun. Perhaps to some extent good training and psychological filtering can prevent these problems.

    Bad (Dickhead) Cop - This is the biggest problem. It sometimes may not be a problem cop, so much as a training and discipline issue in some regard. Some cops simply lose their cool and act like arrogant pricks, knowing they have the force on their side. Others become cops because they like the idea of being the big swinging dick and ordering people around. the former can be dealt with by proper training and the assurance that misbehaviour will not be swept under the rug. The latter should have been caught at application time, but otherwise the best fix is "fire him!". This type will use their position to do whatever the hell they want, and will ignore procedure or rules secure in the knowledge that they can get away with it.

    With the first problem - the guy is high or crazy, he's not going to listen to reason, you have to physically take him down. However, unless he's wielding a lethal weapon, firepower should not be in the mix - back off and call for backup if he's too big or too crazy. For type two - slow down and avoid putting yourself in a situation where lethal force is necessary. get a good look at him, the guy will still be in his neighbourhood in an hour or a day.

    Incidents of the third type - well, the police there are deliberately driving a confrontation. The LAPD guy is right in one way, because arguing with a guy who has lethal power and perversion of the law on his side cannot end well for the other side; the only hope is that people are standing around with cellphones and using for example, a forbidden choke-hold, will eventually we hope catch up with the officer.

    Whether the guy in Ferguson was a combination of arrogant prick and/or adrenalin panic, time will tell.

    Unfortunately, like the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts or the Military with sexual assaults, the tendency is to sweep it under the rug until things blow up so badly that the authorities realize, too late, they should have dealt with it properly in the first place.

     

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  73.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:01am

    Re:

    You treat them with disrespect and, guess what? You're going to get disrespected right back.

    That is the attitude of the bully, bigot and other people who demand that others respect and agree with everything that they say and do, and further who treat every slight affront as a reason to attack the other person, and is not the attitude of anyone who deserves respect.

     

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  74.  
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    Padpaw (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:02am

    Re: Re: Unsuitable by nature

    at the rate things are spiralling out of control in America, a bullet in the back of the head will be their punishment when people finally decide they won't take it anymore and go criminal cop hunting

     

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  75.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:15am

    Re: Re:

    Not quite, but you're not far off. I'll say that they don't like people laughing at them and cracking stupid cop jokes. They'll look for any excuse to hassle you if you do that.

     

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  76.  
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    zip, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:19am

    societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    It's worth noting the evolution of school teachers. Two or three generations ago, it was a standard (and widely accepted) practice for teachers to beat children who disrespected their authority. Today, doing so would be considered criminal assault.

    But with police, social evolution has gone backward: violent behavior that was previously both uncommon and/or unacceptable has become the new norm of American-style law enforcement.

     

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  77.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:24am

    Re: You guys are too funny

    it's an affront to their authority

    I bet you let the whole police force in your town run a train on you so that they all feel more secure in their authority.

     

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  78.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:27am

    Re:

    Couldn't be in an emergency room...most of those folks have compassion.

     

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  79.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:31am

    Re:

    Don't know about you guys, but a cop is a person just like any of us. You treat them with disrespect and, guess what? You're going to get disrespected right back.

    No they aren't. Cops are subhuman pieces of garbage. Get the officer's dick out of your mouth before posting next time. They want respect? Act like an officer of the law and hold their 'brothers' to the same standard. Then people will respect them.

    The biggest issue is that there are enough shady cops doing shady things and being protected by the blue code of silence. Arrest the shitty officers, bring them to trial, show that you're on the side of the people you're protecting. Then you're an officer of the law. Otherwise you're a gang member with a badge.

     

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  80.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:31am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    "... of a very small minority of bad actors"

    Wow... wake up. I definitely agree we dont know all the facts (what a thug pushing that merchant). However, this whole article about a cop expecting us to comply with his delusional narcissistic behavior while actually admitting his inability to handle his job should have keyed you in to the mind set of MANY (I'm guessing majority) of the officers.

     

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  81.  
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    ottermaton (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:37am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    On the one hand, your express the belief that all users of a service like torrents should not be judged by the few who abuse it, but you then flip around and blame all police for the actions of a very small minority of bad actors.

    Are you completely fucking stupid? How can you even BEGIN to compare the two? The last time I checked a torrent user doesn't have the ability to imprison you, utterly ruin your life, beat the hell of you, or even kill you all with (near perfect) immunity.

     

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  82.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:42am

    if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me

    Imagine if debates worked that way: Senator, you have 30 seconds to taze for your rebuttal.

     

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  83.  
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    hoare (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:51am

    "i will kill you"

    #Ferguson loves you #OfficerGoFuckYourself

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zbR824FKpU

     

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  84.  
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    ottermaton (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:52am

    Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Please show me where this has transpired in the incident in Ferguson.

    Right here. It took them almost a week to release the shooting officer's name?!?! When does that EVER happen in "civilian" cases?

    ... unless you know something the rest of the population doesn't

    It would appear the rest of the population knows a whole lot of shit you don't.

     

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  85.  
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    connermac725 (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 9:59am

    Wrong attitude

    wrong a cop unloads his gun into an UNARMED teenager. people expect the same level of justice for the cop that anyone else would see for the same CRIME which is arrested

     

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  86.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:03am

    Re:

    Really? You're playing the fucking 9/11 card on this? STFU!

     

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  87.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:07am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    guess who will be tasked with the investigating and punishing...

    yeah, that will surely end well.

    The moment the militarization of police forces started was a declaration of war against the population. As long as the current people are in charge and those programs are not undone, there is no solution.

    Right now the militarized police can only be considered an occupying force. They are not there to help anymore, they are there to shut you up and control what you are doing.

     

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  88.  
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    RD, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:11am

    Re:

    "Don't know about you guys, but a cop is a person just like any of us."

    Just like "any of us" empowered to enforce the law, with lethal force? A COP is not a person, he is a representative of state authority, invested with the responsibility to enforce the law. He is never "just a person" not even when out of uniform shopping for tomatoes. You ignore this at your own peril.

    "You treat them with disrespect and, guess what? You're going to get disrespected right back."

    Wrong. You get arrested or lose your life. This has been shown to be true MANY MANY times.

     

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  89.  
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    Anonymous Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:15am

    Re: Re:

    Part of the issue with respect to 'respect' is who goes first? Cops demand respect but fail to give it. Citizens demand respect but fail to get it. So both sides feel insulted.

    I gonna go with, the cops get paid to respect, and if they do, they will earn it. The citizens are allowed to do whatever the hell they want, within the law, and do not deserve disrespect for it.

    That means the cops have to respect the citizens, doing whatever the hell they want. When they don't, then they dis-earn any respect they might have gained, and will have to work twice as hard to regain it. And the onus is on them, not us. And that onus has now spread to all of them (maybe because of a few but that is beside the point) and the work they all will need to do to re-earn respect starts with stopping their disrespect.

     

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  90.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:23am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    I would argue that it was not a cover-up, but withheld for the safety of the officer considering the entire force has since had death threats made against them.

    I agree that they should have released his name sooner, and also released the video of the victim robbing the store 10 minutes before the cop arrived. but those are mistakes, not a cover-up.

     

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  91.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    Again, I don't know what transpired since I wasn't there to see it, but another possible explanation was that Brown was charging the officer. When the first few shots missed center mass and the threat kept coming, the cop kept shooting. The final 2 shots stopping the advance.

    I am not claiming this as what transpired, just that it also fits with the evidence provided to the public so far.

     

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  92.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:30am

    "Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority."

    "[I]f you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."

    These two statements are mind boggling to me. Looking at these again, you are subjecting yourself to the potential of being "shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground" anytime you are TALKING or WALKING in a way a cop doesn't like.

    I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this as reality.

     

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  93.  
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    Ninja (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:39am

    Re:

    Just a look at the majority of videos posted on youtube and you can see how these morons with their cameras deliberately go out of their way to make a spectacle out of themselves in order to create the next viral video and ti's simply gotten out of control.

    LoL, this alone gives a good hint on how clueless you are little Mr Dictator.

     

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  94.  
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    Mikael (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:47am

    I find it funny that an officer with the LAPD said this after I heard about John Winkler today. This happened back in April where LAPD officers responded to a call and ended up shooting two of the VICTIMS, killing one of them, and then arrested the guy who had them held hostage. Even though the cops shot one of the hostages in the leg and killed another one, they charged the guy who was holding them hostage with murder. O_o The cops killed shot the hostages as they were just trying to get away. They shot without knowing what was going on.

    The cops said that the person they were called about was a white male wearing a black shirt. John Winkler was also wearing a black shirt so obviously he was their man so they shot him.

    So apparently if you are the same race as the criminal they are called for and just happen to be wearing the same color shirt you may get shot too.

     

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    Mikael (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:48am

    Re:

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    "those are mistakes, not a cover-up"

    And you know this how?

     

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  97.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:55am

    Re:

    The whole thing is pretty mind-boggling. But to me, the most mind-boggling aspect of the whole editorial is that this officer thought that what he was saying was reasonable and would help to sway people to the police' perspective.

    That alone shows a disconnect and failure to understand that is astounding and frightening.

     

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  98.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:56am

    Re: Respect My Authoritah!

    "Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority."

    Prostitution is illegal.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 11:12am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    I know my opinion. See the part where I say things like "I would argue..." and "I agree..."

    That implies that I am speaking for myself and what I think.

     

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  100.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 11:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    those are mistakes, not a cover-up.

    Withholding information isn't a cover-up?! I don't think that word means what you think that word means....

     

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  101.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 11:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    is the information out there now? Then it was not withheld so much as delayed, right?

     

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  102.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 11:31am

    Re:

    I'm starting to think that every police interaction should begin with "Am I free to go?"

    If the answer is "no" then the next question is "What assistance am I legally required to give you, officer?"

    The other must is a phone app that streams recordings to a remote server in real-time.

    http://ccla.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Know-Your-Rights-Booklet1.pdf
    http://w ww.policecrimes.com/police.html
    http://svan.ca/police-rights/

     

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  103.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:04pm

    Re: Re:

    Like I said before, gang members with badges. I fucking hate cops. Where is this guy's essay defending these actions?

     

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    Coyne Tibbets (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:22pm

    He forgot a rule

    He forgot a rule, sadly demonstrated here in Orlando by the death of Maria Godinez:

    "When a cop must shoot a suspect, other citizens should get out of the way. In the overwhelming majority of cases, it is not the cops but the bystanders hitting the deck, who can prevent a cop's stray bullets from turning into tragedies."

     

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    Jeremy Lyman (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:28pm

    Re: Truthful but wrongful...

    I'm sorry, are you talking about sharks or bears or F5 tornadoes? Because "keep your head down and hope you survive" sounds like great advice against the call of the wild, but less coherent when dealing with the people charged with maintaining public safety.

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:30pm

    Re: Re:

    I would be more explicit with the first question: "am I being detained?" Being detained is a specific legal situation that modifies what rights you have.

    "What assistance am I legally required to give you, officer?"

    That's a bad question to ask a police officer. The officer can very well lie or be ignorant. Better to already know what you are legally obligated to do and what your rights are.

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    My mistake. I misread your comment and thought you were asserting a fact.

     

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    nasch (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:39pm

    Re:

    He should be immediately fired.

    I believe he's already retired.

     

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  109.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:42pm

    Re:

    So, Mr Officer, does that mean I should stop recording you even if it is a constitutional right of mine? Should I refuse consent for you to search the electronic contents of my phone even though this is also protected?

    I guess if you want to be shot, tased, sprayed, or beaten (I don't think he mentioned choking, that's a good one too), his answer would be yes.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:44pm

    Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    I hate when the strong abuse the weak, specially when the strong are supposed to protect the weak. However, There are actually looting and rioting in Fergunson. People who take advantage of a tragedy to loot and pillage should be met by the wrong end of bullet.

    I know it isn't all the time and i know the police abused the situation, but there are "opportunists" on the side of the public putting everything the protesters are trying to achiev in jeopardy.

     

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  111.  
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    nasch (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:46pm

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    While I am not condoning anything that happened in Missouri, the facts aren't all in yet, there seems to be a double standard on this site.

    You seem to want to make this all about Ferguson, but it's not. This is a much wider problem being discussed.

     

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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:51pm

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    On the one hand, your express the belief that all users of a service like torrents should not be judged by the few who abuse it, but you then flip around and blame all police for the actions of a very small minority of bad actors.

    The two are simply not comparable. We do not judge all cops by the actions of one. We know most cops are decent people trying to do a good job - but as soon as those good people start shielding their own bad actors, when they support a culture of protecting their own instead of the citizens, when citizens are viewed as the enemy instead of the ones they are serving, then those good people are part of the corrupt system.

    I am an admitted copyright pirate, and frankly I probably take a bit too much pride in being one, but I must do what I think is right. However, should I get sued for infringement, I don't have a government bureaucracy behind me. At most I could hope for some donations to pay a tiny part of my legal fees. I can't expect that other pirates would hide what I did or obstruct justice on my behalf.

    And you might want to examine the autopsy report a bit clearer - while a few parts of it did match with the officer's account, it also showed that the kid was no threat to the officer when that officer killed him.

     

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    nasch (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 12:57pm

    Re:

    I agree with the LAPD officer

    There's a shock.

     

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    sorrykb (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    People who take advantage of a tragedy to loot and pillage should be met by the wrong end of bullet.

    So... we're advocating extrajudicial executions as a solution now? I'm sure that will definitely solve the problems of abuse of power.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:06pm

    Speaking of cops and priests...

    ...apparently the Ferguson PD just raided a church.

     

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    quawonk, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:16pm

    So basically it boils down to: "Do what I say or I'll shoot you!"

    That's something I'd expect a bank robber to say.

     

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  117.  
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    Antsan (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:16pm

    Re:

    Those are fucked up.
    What kind of person does one need to be to do this kind of stuff?

     

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    nubwaxer (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:22pm

    police/public interaction

    you'll probably find some on youtube if you haven't seen them on tv: police in other countries refraining from firing a lethal weapon when obviously provoked to do so when dealing with a violent and armed suspect. i've seen how foreigners do their protesting by throwing firebombs at the police who may respond with fire hoses or teargas but rarely with lethal force.
    our domestic police should not have full military body armor and automatic weapons when dealing with the public. the police all too often escalate the potential for violence too quickly and should be better trained in how to interact of everyone they contact and with backup contain a suspect as well as possible until a resolution can be reached without gunfire. finally, part of police training should emphasize that they are obliged to a higher standard of tolerating erratic behavior and verbal abuse.

     

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    Antsan (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:26pm

    Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    "People who take advantage of a tragedy to loot and pillage should be met by the wrong end of bullet."

    I thought the police was an organization that should replace and prevent lynch mob mentality instead of institutionalizing it?

    The death penalty for looting and pillaging seems beyond excessive to me. What's wrong with you?

     

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    Lord Binky, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:26pm

    So what he's saying...it's illegal for a cop to use excessive force, because it's some kind of physical impossibility? Then the same reasoning say that since it is illegal for citizens to harm a cop, it's physically impossible.

    This leads to the conclusion, if you can harm a cop, it must be legal or else you could not have done it at all.

     

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    JEDIDIAH, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:44pm

    Re: Truthful but wrongful...

    The previous "standard" for this was that the cop would write up his own response to the charges and the chief would throw it in a file cabinet somewhere and then forget about it.

    You are making statements based on wishful assumptions and not even bothering to inform yourself in any way regarding about what actually goes on in that town.

    You're like some kid that still believes in the tooth fairy.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:48pm

    Oh, REALLY?

    "[C]ops are not murderers. No officer goes out in the field wishing to shoot anyone, armed or unarmed."

    Tell that to this cop, who aimed a loaded gun -- with his finger on the trigger -- at protestors in Ferguson last night and shouted "I will fucking kill you!"

    See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/20/ferguson-cop-i-will-kill-you_n_5695748.html

    Question 1: why hasn't this cop been charged with multiple felonies?

    Question 2: why hasn't this cop been publicly fired?

    Question 3: what would have happened to a protestor if they had tried this with a cop?

    Question 4: does anyone think for a moment that this is the only such incident or that these things only happen in Ferguson or that these things have only happened in the last 10 days?

     

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  123.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:48pm

    Re:

    "Should I refuse consent for you to search the electronic contents of my phone"

    You should always, always, always refuse to consent to any search of anything you own or possess whatsoever. No matter if you "have something to hide" or not.

     

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  124.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 1:52pm

    Re: police/public interaction

    "our domestic police should not have full military body armor and automatic weapons when dealing with the public"

    I would have thought this was obvious. The evidence is that they can't really even be trusted with Tasers.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 2:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    If he was soo close - where is the gunpowder residue?

     

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    vastrightwing, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 2:17pm

    police are more dangerous than terrorism

    Correct. You are much more likely of being hurt or killed by law enforcement than by terrorists. Strange that the people who are supposed to be protecting us are more lethal than the threat on today's narrative. Let's rewind the calendar about 20 years. No homeland security. No TSA. No ICE. No NSA. Heck, let's just rollback all the alphabet agencies.

     

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    nasch (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 2:17pm

    Militarization

    Just got this in my inbox: the pros and cons of militarizing the police.

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-pros-and-cons-of-militarizing-the-police,36717/

     

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  128.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 2:19pm

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    "On the one hand, your express the belief that all users of a service like torrents should not be judged by the few who abuse it, but you then flip around and blame all police for the actions of a very small minority of bad actors."

    No I don't.

    I claim that if a torrent (or anything else) is used legally, then said use should not be met with batons and stun grenades. Your attempt at equivalence is lame. And where does this claim of "small minority" come from? Are there any facts to substantiate the percentage of known bad cops? This would be interesting reading, please share.

     

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  129.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 2:42pm

    Re:

    "Just a look at the majority of videos posted on youtube and you can see how these morons with their cameras deliberately go out of their way to make a spectacle"

    A majority huh. Lets see your statistical analysis, or was that just conjecture? Which videos? Perhaps you could refresh my memory.

    Lets recall a few of the more famous videos:

    Wasn't the Rodney King videographer hiding in a house pointing the camera through a glass window hoping to not be seen? Sounds like they were going out of their way to make a spectacle, oh yeah.

    What about the UC Davis pepper-spray incident - that person was definitely going out of their way to make a spectacle - amirite?

     

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  130.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 2:54pm

    Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    Beating a child is assault. I don't care if some backwoods hillbilly says it is ok.

    Violent crime has been declining for over a decade, or maybe you haven't noticed because it not considered "Breaking News". So your premise is incorrect.

    It is worth noting that in the face of declining crime, our police are acting like it has skyrocketed. Perhaps they are as out of touch as yourself.

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:10pm

    I just noticed this tidbit

    The byline of the editorial says

    Sunil Dutta, a professor of homeland security at Colorado Tech University,[...]


    There's such a thing as "professor of homeland security"?! Good god. And as if that weren't bad enough, rank, unapologetic authoritarians such as Mr. Dutta are filling those positions? Even worse, he's a former LAPD officer. The LAPD is more famous for their abusiveness than anything else.

     

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  132.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:11pm

    Re: Militarization

    Where is your [satire] tag, huh?

     

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    John85851 (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:12pm

    Fix the cause, not the symptom

    Once again, this is a case of someone trying to take the easy approach by trying to fix a symptom instead of the underlying cause.
    People are disrespectful of the police? How do we solve it?

    The easy way: write opinion pieces telling them to stop being disrespectful. Well, wasn't that easy? Wait, it didn't work?!

    The hard way: figure out why police have lost the public's respect over the years and put new systems in place to change it. But like I said, this could be too hard for many departments with ingrained systems of doing things.

     

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    nasch (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:14pm

    Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    You seem to have completely misconstrued everything zip said. He didn't condone hitting children, and he didn't mention crime rates.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:22pm

    At first I thought six shots was excessive, until I found out that the first five were to injure or maim, and the sixth, a head shot, was to kill. The local authorities sat on information they had for too long, and now they are reaping the consequences. All this for fifty bucks worth of cheap cigars, although I knew people died for a lot less.

     

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  136.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:23pm

    Re: Fix the cause, not the symptom

    What should be even more important to the police than the decline in the public's respect for them is the decline of the public's trust in them.

     

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    beltorak (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:31pm

    Re: Re: Truthful but wrongful...

    Are you trying to imply that the actions of police officers aren't some uncontrollable force of nature, that the officers should control and take responsibility for their actions like conscious beings??

    Madness!!

     

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  138.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    "He didn't condone hitting children"
    - I did not claim that zip did.

    "he didn't mention crime rates."
    - my bad, zip was referring to the increase in police brutality, not violent crime elsewhere.

     

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    nasch (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 3:47pm

    Re:

    At first I thought six shots was excessive, until I found out that the first five were to injure or maim, and the sixth, a head shot, was to kill.

    If I'm not mistaken, police aim for center mass - I guess you could call it shooting to stop. Torso shots are not necessarily quickly fatal, but they're also not intended specifically to be non-fatal. I think the shots to the arm were the officer missing the torso, not intentionally trying to inflict minimal injury and then switching targets for a kill shot.

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here.

     

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    SparetheRodSpoilthechild, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 5:19pm

    Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    Spanking a child, aka beating is not assault.

    It's only since the panzy assed fucktards have taken charge to claim that it's assault has our society spiraled into decline.

    A little more tough love and all the kids would be better off.

    Now if someone does actually "Beat" a child, ie - hits them (spanking is not hitting) with a closed fist, or other, then sure, let's put a stop to that.

    But to say that all corporal punishment is out will only harm society as a whole.

    Sometimes the only thing to get the attention of a child is to spank them. Words do nothing, time-outs do nothing. But the memory of when their bottom hurt - well, that's something.

     

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  141.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 5:31pm

    Re: Re: You guys are too funny

    Whatever can't get hard unless his wife dresses like a prisoner, handcuffs him and pegs him up the ass.

    It's a fantasy of his.

     

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  142.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 5:52pm

    Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    If your parents used corporal punishment, I'd say it didn't work. Because obviously, nobody has even beaten any sense into you.

     

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    SparetheRodSpoilthechild, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:27pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    Obviously you weren't spanked enough or you'd know better, and would quit trying to ruin society by letting the children run amok being self-centered, pampered, everyone's a winner, nobody's left behind, everybody owes me everything I could ever want dipshits.

     

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  144.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:39pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    You seem to belong in the camp that believes if a child isn't beaten until he's bloodied and senseless, he's marked for life as a recalcitrant offender.

     

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    ottermaton (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    I would argue that it was not a cover-up

    Interesting. I would hope you could realize that the origin of the term "cover-up" has to do with placing something under a "cover" so it can't be seen.

    Maybe you could explain how withholding information from public sight doesn't pretty much exactly fit that description.

    but withheld for the safety of the officer

    Oh, boo hoo hoo. When has that EVER been a consideration for someone other than a cop?

    considering the entire force has since had death threats made against them.

    Yea, they have. Ever since they decided to close ranks and declare war on the public.

    I don't see how you think that excuses what they did beforehand

     

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    ottermaton (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 6:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    is the information out there now? Then it was not withheld so much as delayed, right?

    You can't be serious. Are you REALLY so dense that you think it's all "ok" now that they FINALLY released this info? (And there's a strong argument that could be made that it would have NEVER been released had it not been for all this brouhaha).

    Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the legal maxim, "Justice delayed is justice denied."

     

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  147.  
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    FM Hilton, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:50pm

    Obey us or die

    So this 'police officer' tells us that if we just shut up and obey all of their orders, they'll let us live.

    As witness Amadou Diallo, who was unarmed and doing nothing more than standing outside his house.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting

    This country took the wrong turn when the Congress approved the bill to allow the military to sell off old weapons, etc to the police and sheriff's departments. Should never have been allowed.

    Because since that time, the number of violent incidents involving cops and groups of people have risen dramatically.

    As latest as the Boston Massacre, which had 9,000 armed cops roaming the streets. Thankfully nobody was killed besides the suspect's brother..but that was a miracle.

    When you give them the weapons to turn entire cities into war zones, don't be surprised when people get a bit upset when they're instructed to stay silent or die.

    Then it becomes a war that pits the very people we trust to protect us into an army against us.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  148.  
    identicon
    Editor-In-Chief, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:54pm

    Use of non-lethal force to bring down wild anaimals

    There are people who have to deal with wild vicious animals every day. Their occupations mandate that they deal with these dangerous creatures with non-lethal means. They are very successful dealing with completely unpredictable and extremely dangerous creatures.

    Yet the various police and law enforcement agencies appear to be incapable of doing the same with people. Their lethal means include firearms, chemical weapons, beatings, tasers, etc.

    What can we learn from this? Hmm?

    David Oliver Graeme Samuel Offenbach

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  149.  
    identicon
    Editor-In-Chief, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 7:56pm

    Use of non-lethal force to bring down wild anaimals

    There are people who have to deal with wild vicious animals every day. Their occupations mandate that they deal with these dangerous creatures with non-lethal means. They are very successful dealing with completely unpredictable and extremely dangerous creatures.

    Yet the various police and law enforcement agencies appear to be incapable of doing the same with people. Their lethal means include firearms, chemical weapons, beatings, tasers, etc.

    What can we learn from this? Hmm?

    David Oliver Graeme Samuel Offenbach

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  150.  
    identicon
    Editor-In-Chief, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:00pm

    Unable to view or comment properly

    Since starting to use TOR in the last day or two, commenting on articles or even viewing them now requires either waiting for moderation or filling in a recapcha form.

    Can any of the editors explain why or is it a problem at your end related to being accessed through TOR?

    David Oliver Graeme Samuel Offenbach

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  151.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 8:39pm

    Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    A little more tough love and all the kids would be better off.

    The science shows otherwise:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/17/us-physical-punishment-idUSBREA0G16C20140117

    http ://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/canada-spanking-idUSL2E8D1F1C20120207

    It's only since the panzy assed fucktards have taken charge to claim that it's assault has our society spiraled into decline.

    Crime has actually been decreasing for decades:

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/1ta bledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1 993-2012.xls

    If you're referring to some sort of other societal decline, please offer some citations.

     

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  152.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:12pm

    Dealing with arseholes is what cops are supposed to be _for_. A cop who loses his temper because the person he's dealing with is obnoxious is like a surgeon who pukes at the sight of blood.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  153.  
    identicon
    Rekrul, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:24pm

    Re: Re:

    I'm starting to think that every police interaction should begin with "Am I free to go?"

    If the answer is "no" then the next question is "What assistance am I legally required to give you, officer?"


    Good first question, bad second question. If you ask that, the answer is guaranteed to be "You are legally required to do everything I say!"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  154.  
    identicon
    Rekrul, Aug 20th, 2014 @ 10:29pm

    In the article, Dutta says that people don't have to submit to an illegal stop or search. It never occurs to him that not submitting to an illegal stop is what causes a large number of people to be hurt by the cops. In the eyes of the cops, ALL stops are legal.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  155.  
    icon
    MrTroy (profile), Aug 20th, 2014 @ 11:51pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    they don't like people laughing at them and cracking stupid cop jokes. They'll look for any excuse to hassle you if you do that.

    ...

    I guess they don't have to look very far. I mean, it's (probably) not illegal to laugh at people in public, but it's unsurprising when they get upset about it.

    Just make sure you don't do it while someone happens to be committing a crime nearby.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  156.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2014 @ 2:13am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    Do you know what is involved in the "scientific method"? After reading first supplied article, all I can say is that it was full of weasel words like "may", which says that they have no concrete evidence to support their hypothesis.

    Secondly, corporal punishment is the appropriate physical punishment applied not all out beatings. The article references violent beatings which most of us who have experienced appropriate corporal punishment recognise is both ineffectual and dangerous to both participants.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  157.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2014 @ 3:18am

    "Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"

    He just got confused. He meant "submit," not "cooperate." Once you use the right word, it all makes sense.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  158.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2014 @ 5:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    ...most of us who have experienced appropriate corporal punishment...
    I don't know about "most," but it seems that it turned at least one child into a scared, angry adult.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  159.  
    icon
    Jeremy Lyman (profile), Aug 21st, 2014 @ 5:46am

    Re: Re:

    I believe that's a requirement to teach "homeland security" courses.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  160.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2014 @ 5:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    Then I would say he was violently beaten not given appropriate corporal punishment.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  161.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Aug 21st, 2014 @ 6:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    Then I would say he was violently beaten not given appropriate corporal punishment.

    pssst! He's talking about you!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  162.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Aug 21st, 2014 @ 8:12am

    Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    "Spanking a child, aka beating is not assault."

    Absolutely right. Technically, it's battery (whether or not it's legally allowed).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  163.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2014 @ 12:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    The appropriate corporal punishment taught me self-restraint and self-control as it did my peers. For many years, I have observed the results of the namby-pamby non-discipline mindset and all it has engendered is a generation of arrogant, selfish, undisciplined (as in a total lack of self-control) and quite violent people. On the other side, over-the-top beatings has engendered a generation of namby-pamby non-disciplined people.

    A cyclic action that doesn't thread the fine line of self-control and self-discipline. If corporal punishment is not tempered with the goal of self-discipline and self-control (which should have been obvious but apparently not) for the recipient then it is useless. It simply becomes punishment for punishments sake, as is the general face of our current law and law enforcement regime.

    After reading all the comments related to this article, it is obvious that some of the leading attributes for being a copper are that one is self-disciplined and self-controlled. The last factor is that one has developed wisdom (which appears to be even rarer these days when one looks at those who should be using it - law enforcement, military, judges, political leaders, etc).

    Finally, appropriate corporal punishment is only a part of the tools needed to bring about a new generation of self-disciplined and self-controlled people. A patient word, a restriction on activities or a removal of privileges are also parts of the toolbox.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  164.  
    icon
    Austin (profile), Aug 21st, 2014 @ 12:42pm

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    "What about the autopsies, none of which were handled by local authorities, that also back the officer's account, and not the witness (friend) of the victim."

    What about them? They say he shot the UNARMED TEEN a whopping SIX TIMES, all from behind. Conflicting reports say the two shots in the head were either at range, or execution style. But in either case, he was shot twice, in the head, from behind.

    Unless this cop was not carrying a tazer, that alone is reason enough to brand the cop a killer. The victim here - the teen, not the cop - had no weapon. That alone is reason enough why the cop should NOT have used deadly force. Practically every cop in the country now carries a tazer. Unless this guy didn't have one, then the discussion of whether the cop was in the right should end right there, immediately, because he already used more force than he should have in order to stop and detain an UNARMED person.

    That's it. I don't care of the kid just robbed a bank, a hospital, and every quick mart in the state. If he didn't have a weapon, the cop who tried to aprehend him shouldn't have used a weapon, period. This discussion of whether or not this was excessive must end right now. He used a GUN. It was automatically excessive!

     

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  165.  
    identicon
    Zonker, Aug 21st, 2014 @ 3:48pm

    [I]f you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my [mask]. Don’t scream at me that [I'm taking your money], and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most [robberies/muggings/rapes/extortions] are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?
    That's right. Better do what the criminal says and don't you dare disrespect him or you'll be beaten or shot. Don't expect him to ever face justice either, because all of the other criminals protection makes him untouchable. Best to just sue yourself and your neighbors for your own damn tax money if you feel like your rights have been violated as a crime victim. Never mind that the criminal is rewarded with a paid vacation and has a flush retirement fund at your expense for all your troubles.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  166.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 21st, 2014 @ 11:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: societal norms: cops vs. school teachers

    What beating up a child when he fails to meet your expectations teaches a child is this: when someone fails to meet your expectations, especially if they're of a lower position, you're entitled to abuse that person for failing your expectations. It also teaches you to treat anyone who thinks beating up another person is unreasonable as a lesser human being, as it appears you do.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  167.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2014 @ 1:05am

    Re:

    "37?! In a row??" Clerks

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  168.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2014 @ 1:56pm

    LAPD Officer Says Tragedies Could Be Prevented If Citizens Would Just Stop committing crimes and all be nice to each other.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  169.  
    identicon
    J, Aug 24th, 2014 @ 4:07am

    Re: He isn't the only one saying this

    That's probably because no one has ever shot anyone with BitTorrent.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  170.  
    icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), Aug 24th, 2014 @ 1:06pm

    Which is untrue.

    If you ask that, the answer is guaranteed to be "You are legally required to do everything I say!"

    Which is untrue, or at least should be untrue. I guess arguably disobeying a police officer, even an unlawful order, could be regarded as resisting arrest. But that can put a civilian into a bit of a dilemma.

    I on the other hand, would be tempted to force them to say as much, just get the implication out there that the officer wittingly knows that he's in the position to control, escalate and abuse the encounter, whether or not he would ever be held accountable for it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  171.  
    identicon
    Reality bites, Aug 25th, 2014 @ 8:06pm

    When should you shoot a cop?

    Common sense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cElTyqJkMEw

    Never ever talk to a cop, never give them permission to do anything what so ever. They will always abuse the trust.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  172.  
    identicon
    Reality bites, Aug 26th, 2014 @ 7:04am

    That only works if cops aren't cowards and losers

    Guess we will look forward to many more murders/executions from the cowards with badges.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  173.  
    identicon
    justice, Aug 28th, 2014 @ 11:39pm

    nope

    Another unelected Nazi cop.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  174.  
    identicon
    justice, Aug 28th, 2014 @ 11:46pm

    nope

    Another unelected Nazi cop. Cops are susposed to serve and protect not cripple and kill. A Nazi cop shot ten times at another unarmed black man and hit him 6 times. It sounds like he shot him 4 times then reloaded and shot at him 6 times.These unelected dictators of the streets are hyper aggressive looking for any reason to use deadly force. The go as far as to spit in someones face hoping for a reaction so they can shoot with their gun All they need is the swastika arm bands to complete the uniforms they wear.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  175.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Aug 29th, 2014 @ 5:44am

    Re: nope

    A Nazi cop shot ten times at another unarmed black man and hit him 6 times. It sounds like he shot him 4 times then reloaded and shot at him 6 times.

    I think a typical semiautomatic such as a Glock holds something like 15 rounds.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  176.  
    identicon
    Farelhound, Dec 18th, 2014 @ 8:50am

    Re:

    Exactly, those are the examples of unintelligent people!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  177.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Apr 14th, 2015 @ 10:45pm

    fuck you all!!!!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  178.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Apr 14th, 2015 @ 10:47pm

    This guy's immature but the rest of you have never been victimized by the jerk offs this guy has to protect us from, and yes, whether you admit it or not, you need protection - you bunch of chicken shits.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  179.  
    icon
    Uriel-238 (profile), Apr 15th, 2015 @ 1:25am

    Not as much protection as you think.

    Even early 18th century London didn't have the degree of crime that Gotham has, or that police like to pretend would exist without them. And granted, the we may have to resort to a thief-finder system.

    In the meantime as the revelations about Ferguson has brought to light, common precincts actually don't bother with jerk offs this guy has to protect us from preferring instead to focus all their energy on preying on the population themselves.

    The police often don't even do the job for which they were originally hired, preferring to engage in street-crime, themselves. You're a protection racket endorsed by the state. And not a very good one, since you don't actually protect from anyone but yourselves.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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