'Journalist' Argues In NY Times That Publishing Decisions Should Ultimately Be Made By Government

from the the-state-of-journalism-today dept

Glenn Greenwald spends the last third of his excellent new book, "No Place to Hide: Edward Snowden, the NSA, and the US Surveillance State", exposing the mentality and function of pseudo-journalists like David Gregory, who are in fact better understood as courtiers to power. So it was kind of Michael Kinsley to offer himself up today as living proof of Greenwald's arguments.

In a New York Times book review, Kinsley says:

"The question is who decides [what to publish]. It seems clear, at least to me, that the private companies that own newspapers, and their employees, should not have the final say over the release of government secrets, and a free pass to make them public with no legal consequences. In a democracy (which, pace Greenwald, we still are), that decision must ultimately be made by the government."

Pause for a moment to let that sink in. How can the government have ultimate decision-making power consistent with the First Amendment with regard to the publication of leaks? As Kinsley himself goes on to say, "You can't square this circle." Indeed. Unless you believe the government should be able to impose prior restraint on the publication of anything it deems secret. Unless you want to argue that the Constitution should be amended accordingly. Unless you believe the government should have been able to prevent the publication of, say, the Pentagon Papers (it certainly tried).

By the way, that "in a democracy (which, pace Greenwald, we still are)" is worth pausing to consider. Not just for the pretentious use of pace, which I admit is amusing, but more for the childlike notion that America is a democracy and there's nothing more to be said about it. It's almost like Kinsley has never heard of gerrymandering, or doesn't understand that when voters are no longer choosing their politicians and politicians are now choosing their voters, democracy isn't what's at work. It's almost like he's never heard of former IMF Chief Economist Simon Johnson's argument that modern America is best understood as an oligarchy (pro tip for Kinsley: oligarchies and democracies are not the same thing). It's almost like he's never even heard of Noam Chomsky (more on whom below — for now, suffice to say that Chomsky is great at explaining people like Kinsley, who are simultaneously sophisticated about irrelevancies and simple-minded about fundamentals).

Anyway, never fear, "No doubt the government will usually be overprotective of its secrets, and so the process of decision-making — whatever it turns out to be — should openly tilt in favor of publication with minimal delay."

“Whatever it turns out to be”? Kinsley has already explained the “decision must ultimately be made by the government." By comparison, does it really matter what specific mechanism the government then decides on? This is a lot like conceding that the government should have the power to execute American citizens without any recognizable due process, then confining the argument merely to mechanics (Terror Tuesdays, anyone? Due Process just means there is a process that you do?). In both cases, the government's arguments and those of its media flunkies are indistinguishable.

(Again, see Chomsky below on the propagandistic technique of narrowing the range of acceptable debate, and then permitting vigorous discussion only within that narrow range.)

And here's a bit of the current reality of what Kinsley breezily refers to as a government "usually overprotective of its secrets." Secrecy metastasis would be a far better way of describing what's going on in America, where the government knows more and more about the citizenry and the citizenry knows less and less about the government (otherwise known as "Kinsleyan Democracy").

By the way, if we were to implement the Kinsleyan notion that the government be vested with ultimate decision-making authority with regard to the publication of any information the government itself has stamped secret, what do you think would be the impact on secrecy metastasis? Do you think there would be less secrecy? Or even more secrecy abuse?

Ah, forget I said it. Silly question. It's not like the government has any history at all of using secrecy to cover up incompetence, corruption, and criminality.

Kinsley is a guy who's spent his adult life as a journalist — or at least pretending to be one — and it's as though he has no notion at all of George Orwell's pithy definition: "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations." Now, if Kinsley wants to cede his journalistic autonomy to the government (I think Matt Taibbi would have said "journalistic balls," but there is only one Taibbi. I'm halfway through his new book, The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gap, another study of Kinsleyan Democracy, and it is awesome), that's fine. Kinsley pretty clearly prefers the role of servile government flack to that of independent journalist. But would it really be healthy for the republic if all people calling themselves journalists were in fact doing government PR work? Surely we have enough of that already?

There are so many other unintentional instances of Kinsley's status as an exemplar of regulatory capture, of his own person functioning as elegant proof of Greenwald's arguments. He calls Greenwald "the go-between for Edward Snowden and the newspapers that reported on Snowden's collection of classified documents." I'm guessing he settled on "go-between" because James Clapper had already used "accomplice"?

Also, did you know that Greenwald a "self-righteous sourpuss" (my God, who still uses this word)? Or maybe you didn't care? I get so tired of these astonishingly shallow critiques. How much you might want to disguise your disgust with the Kinsleys of the world is primarily a tactical question, and different people will arrive at different conclusions. But if you're not disgusted, if you're not in fact outraged, by the government criminality and journalistic complicity Greenwald chronicles in No Place to Hide, then at best you're not paying attention. Criticizing the demeanor of someone uninterested in concealing his disgust reveals a warped set of priorities and a pernicious set of allegiances.

As for substance, for all his flamboyant displays of largely irrelevant erudition (Henry James, Michael Frayn, Herbert Marcuse… bingo! And this guy calls Assange a narcissist?), Kinsley comes across most fundamentally as… a simpleton:

"Greenwald doesn't seem to realize that every piece of evidence he musters demonstrating that people agree with him undermines his own argument that 'the authorities' brook no dissent. No one is stopping people from criticizing the government or supporting Greenwald in any way. Nobody is preventing the nation's leading newspaper from publishing a regular column in its own pages dissenting from company or government orthodoxy. If a majority of citizens now agree with Greenwald that dissent is being crushed in this country, and will say so openly to a stranger who rings their doorbell or their phone and says she's a pollster, how can anyone say that dissent is being crushed? What kind of poor excuse for an authoritarian society are we building in which a Glenn Greenwald, proud enemy of conformity and government oppression, can freely promote this book in all media and sell thousands of copies at airport bookstores surrounded by Homeland Security officers?"

There are several problems with this bit of self-indulgence.

First, Greenwald never argues that the authorities (and why the scare quotes? Kinsley's the one who wants the government to be able to enforce total secrecy. If that's not "the authorities," what is?), "brook no dissent." This is just a straw man, the kind of fake argument people trot out when they can't respond to the real one, or when the voices in their heads get so loud they can no longer hear the actual conversation. Greenwald never argues that there is no dissent in America or that the First Amendment Kinsley is so keen to abridge is doing nothing to protect free speech. His argument is more akin to what Noam Chomsky has said about propaganda:

"One of the ways you control what people think is by creating the illusion that there's a debate going on, but making sure that that debate stays within very narrow margins. Namely, you have to make sure that both sides in the debate accept certain assumptions, and those assumptions turn out to be the propaganda system. As long as everyone accepts the propaganda system, then you can have a debate."

Chomsky also had this to say. See if you can recognize Kinsley in here:

"Propaganda very often works better for the educated than it does for the uneducated. This is true on many issues. There are a lot of reasons for this, one being that the educated receive more of the propaganda because they read more. Another thing is that they are the agents of propaganda. After all, their job is that of commissars; they're supposed to be the agents of the propaganda system so they believe it. It's very hard to say something unless you believe it. Other reasons are that, by and large, they are just part of the privileged elite so they share their interests and perceptions."

And here's how Kinsley misinterprets the section on David Gregory's infamous Meet the Press "To the extent that you have aided and abetted Snowden… why shouldn't you, Mr. Greenwald, be charged with a crime?" question:

"But Greenwald does not deny that he has 'aided and abetted Snowden.' So this particular question was not baseless. Furthermore, it was a question, not an assertion — a perfectly reasonable question that many people were asking, and Gregory was giving Greenwald a chance to answer it: If the leaker can go to prison, why should the leakee be exempt?"

As Greenwald notes in the book, Gregory's "perfectly reasonable question" was in fact a rare textbook instance of "When did you stop beating your wife?" Someone with Kinsley's ostentatious learning ought to know that such a loaded question is by design impossible to answer. It can only be responded to via an attack on the question's false premises, which is what Greenwald did in that interview and then again in the book. Kinsley ignores all this and tries to argue instead that, "A-ha, Greenwald does not deny beating his wife, you see: Which is as asinine as it is dishonest.

"Greenwald's determination to misinterpret the evidence can be comic. He writes about attending a bat mitzvah ceremony where the rabbi told the young woman that 'you are never alone' because God is always watching over you. 'The rabbi's point was clear,' Greenwald amplifies. 'If you can never evade the watchful eyes of a supreme authority, there is no choice but to follow the dictates that authority imposes." I don't think that was the rabbi's point."

I'm sure it wasn't — it was merely the rabbi's unavoidable implication. Similarly, though it may be that the de facto end of the First Amendment's guarantee of a free press, and the advent of a new system of prior restraint, might not have been Kinsley's point, it's certainly his unavoidable implication. You'd think a guy who tosses around references to James and Frayn and Marcuse and all that would understand the difference. That he doesn't isn't comic at all. It's sad.

"As the news media struggles to expose government secrets and the government struggles to keep them secret, there is no invisible hand to assure that the right balance is struck."

Well, there kind of is, though it takes an actual journalist to describe it. Here's Washington Post go-between — sorry, reporter — Barton Gellman explaining how he handles classified information in reporting on war and weapons. If you follow only one link in this post, make it this one — it's that thoughtful, thought-provoking, and nuanced. I doubt Kinsley could understand it, but most people will find it illuminating.

"So what do we do about leaks of government information? Lock up the perpetrators or give them the Pulitzer Prize? (The Pulitzer people chose the second option.)"

Yes, clearly these are the only two options. I know I'm being hard on Kinsley, but… is he dishonest? Or is he really this simple-minded?

"This is not a straightforward or easy question."

Pause for a moment to gaze in wonder at a guy who self-identifies as a journalist… and who just said that whether to lock up a journalist for publishing something the government wanted kept secret is not a straightforward or easy question.

"But I can't see how we can have a policy that authorizes newspapers and reporters to chase down and publish any national security leaks they can find."

It's technically correct to say we can't have such a policy — anymore than we can have a policy that the people's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; or a policy that the people will be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures; or a policy that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law. Because these things are not "policies." They are constitutional guarantees — explicit carve-outs from the broad powers we the people have otherwise granted the government. What we really can't have — literally can't, because of the Bill of Rights — are policies against those things. Like the policies Kinsley advocates.

Kinsley claims that, "Especially in the age of blogs, it is impossible to distinguish between a professional journalist and anyone else who wants to publish his or her thoughts."

Really? I think a good working test of whether someone is a journalist, professional or otherwise, is whether he or she agrees with Kinsley. Because if you believe the government should have ultimate decision-making authority over what leaks to publish, you might be many things. But a real journalist isn't one of them.

Reposted from Freedom of the Press Foundation


Reader Comments (rss)

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  1.  
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    John William Nelson (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 5:55am

    Speechless

    This guy Kinsley is not a journalist.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 5:59am

    Re: Speechless

    Agreed. A Journalist has some integrity, even if they have their biases.

    This isn't integrity - the closest thing I can think of is the Vichy government.

     

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  3.  
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    Keroberos (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 6:11am

    The Ultimate Head in the Sand Approach

    If our Government commits offenses in a forest, and no one hears about it--did it really happen?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 6:21am

    Am paraphrasing, but this is basically what he is saying...

    "In a democracy secret decisions must be made by the oligarchy."


    And there was me, stupidly thinking that in a democracy the people should be informed to make the decisions. You learn something new every day.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 6:27am

    I know that our Republic is in trouble because I pause before checking out a Chomsky book at the library because I'm worried about it getting me on "The List." The pause is still small; I can still suppress it and call it tinfoil hat paranoia. But given the technical capabilities of the executive, their incentives to secrecy, and the weakness of congress and the courts, I'm not sure it's paranoia anymore.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 6:27am

    I'm buying Kinsley some kneepads

    So that he'll avoid abrasions when servicing the government.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 6:28am

    >In a democracy (which, pace Greenwald, we still are)
    But the US has never been an official democracy (nor unofficial, just some bullshit propaganda)

     

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    Baron von Robber, May 23rd, 2014 @ 6:47am

    Dear Mr. Kinsley

    "Journalist".

    It doesn't mean what you think it means.

    You need to go back to school to find out why 'a free press' was invented in the first place. You must have been sick that week.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:14am

    if these decisions were left to government, we would never know! and think of the other matters that would then be kept secret, because there's no way that anything stops as far as government is concerned, it always wants to go further and further. what needs to be remembered here as well is that the government is supposed to work for us, supposed to do our bidding, not just go off doing whatever the hell it feels like, based on the opinions of one top man and a few advisers, the majority of whom would sell themselves if they were going to be personally better off!

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:15am

    We the People are our government at least that's what we're lead to believe, But sadly it seems to be less and less true , I wouldn't doubt that half the guys who claim to be journalists are actually agents of some three lettered agency who have been in the forefront of creating propaganda and destroying our nations journalistic integrity for years , you know how the saying goes , if you can't beat them join them , and then rip their heart out while you're there.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:17am

    Re: The Ultimate Head in the Sand Approach

    OF course it did! Just think of the secrecy!

     

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    weneedhelp (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:18am

    Re:

    It has been long forgotten that we are a Republic by and for the people.
    -
    A Democracy is mob rule... and they do.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:22am

    Any one else read " Kinsleyan" as Kin-slayin' and went all game of thrones....?

     

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    DannyB (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:23am

    Please register to have freedom

    Journalists should register with the government and obtain a publication license.

    To protect the public safety, typewriters should be registered with the government. The registration form must be accompanied by a typewritten page produced from the typewriter being registered. This will streamline government efforts to identify sources of 'bad thoughts' expressed in typewritten form.

    Registered journalists will be provided, free of charge, a political officer to assist them in their work. This will make publication approvals far more fast and efficient than having to submit materials for approval in advance of publication.

    The government wants to protect your freedom. The best way to have a free press is for the press to register with the government. That way journalists obtain the free services of an assistant, along with a non intrusive approval process that does not disrupt the journalist's work process.

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:26am

    Re:

    It stopped being paranoia with the patriot act

     

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    Easily Amused (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:34am

    Nothing in this world infuriates me more than the pseudo-intellectual. It's really a shame that Eisler's excellent literary bitch-slap can't be delivered as a literal one.

    Kinsley went to all the best schools (Harvard and Geo.Washington Law) and worked at all the best newspapers before becoming a talking head on opinion-based 'news' shows. He has been immersed in the political and journalism realms for decades, and this tripe is his conclusion?

    The scary thing is, when he was on Crossfire, he was the 'radical liberal' left-wing counter balance to the right wingnut, noted racist, and holocaust denier Pat Buchanan.

    I really fear for our nation when we have Democrats in power who either preach right-wing ideals and hawkish warmongering, Repubs who have spent the last two terms being that horrible child in Wal-Mart screaming for a piece of candy while the parent drags them kicking and screaming, and the vast majority of media playing lapdog to power to the point of attacking the ACTUAL JOURNALISTS doing real reporting.

     

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    Trails (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:39am

    Bad url for this article in RSS

    just a heads up, the url for this article in my RSS feed is:
    https://www.techdirt.comarticles/20140522/14013827337/journalist-argues-ny-times-that-publishing- decisions-should-ultimately-be-made-government.shtml

    (note the missing slash after techdirt.com)

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:39am

    This is why the NYT is already dead

    This is why the NYT of the past that fought all the way to the Supreme Court for the right to publish the Pentagon Papers is long dead.

     

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    Anon, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:47am

    How??

    So if this is a law, then the question is - what happens if the leak is published overseas?

    Canada has had similar run-ins. Years ago (1990's) the had a series of stupid publication bans. The prosecutors for Paul Bernardo, serial killer, fell for his wife Karla Homolka's "I am a poor battered wife" song and dance. They gave her a sweetheart deal for participating in 3 murders and even failed to nullify the deal when she failed to mention a rape she helped commit. To prevent this news coming out, they forbade publication of the deal. Of course, USA news sources had no such restrictions, leading to the silly attempt to block websites and black out TV news from south of the border. Like any attempt to censor the web, a total failure, even in he early 90's.

    Or are we going to have a SOPA-for-leakers treaty, where the participants agree to prosecute each others' violators of classified information laws.

     

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    TheResidentSkeptic (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:50am

    Kinsley's tasks for today:

    1) Google and read:
    Edward R. Murrow
    Walter Cronkite
    Daniel Ellsberg
    2) turn in your credentials. you're done.

     

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  21.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:53am

    Re: Speechless

    "[If] you are pleasing the people in power with the things that you’re disclosing, you may be very good at your job, but your job is not journalism." (Glenn Greenwald, Socialism 2013 conference)

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:56am

    Re: How??

    Or are we going to have a SOPA-for-leakers treaty, where the participants agree to prosecute each others' violators of classified information laws.

    More likely a treaty where all violators are extradited to GITMO.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 7:56am

    Some should inform Michael Kinsley that 60 Minutes has a job opening.

     

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  24.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:02am

    Forgotten

    Michael Kinsley, along with pretty near the entirety of government, most of the press, and a distressing number of citizens, have forgotten one thing: the government does not rule the people, the people rule the government. It's high time that we started doing our job.

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:13am

    "any history at all" link from the story: why the government can lie.

    Full version of story is here, no buy-in required: http://web.archive.org/web/20130205065020/http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2009/feb/12/why-t he-government-can-legally-lie/

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:32am

    Re: Re: Speechless

    Journalists don't have to have integrity to be a journalist. They just have to have integrity to be any good at it. There is still such a thing as journalism that just sucks. Case in point... The National Enquirer... uh... I mean... Fox News.

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:33am

    I think Janine Gibson said it best....

    "With the greatest respect, we will take the decisions about what we publish."

     

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  28.  
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    Michael, May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:39am

    Re:

    And there was me, stupidly thinking

    You can stop there and your government will be happy to agree.

     

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  29.  
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    Michael, May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:40am

    Re:

    What's a library?

     

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  30.  
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    Michael, May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:43am

    Re: How??

    Why would the US need something like that? Apparently, they can prosecute people for violating US law wherever they are or happend to have commited the offense.

    And if that doesn't work, they will just send the NYPD after them.

     

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  31.  
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    David, May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:47am

    The ultimate confusion:

    It seems clear, at least to me, that the private companies that own newspapers, and their employees, should not have the final say over the release of government secrets, and a free pass to make them public with no legal consequences. In a democracy (which, pace Greenwald, we still are), that decision must ultimately be made by the government.

    If we are talking about a democracy and even a republic, the basis of the democratic process is not compatible with "government secrets". The whole idea of democratic structures is to have the people as the ultimately responsible overseeing entity.

    For better or worse, this does not leave substantial leeway for "government secrets", including operations of "secret services" since that is fundamentally opposite to the governing principle, making democratic control impossible.

    The choice of a democratic republic as the form of government implies drawbacks including the impossibility of a "government secret". In return, it provides the only known defense against corruption and establishment of a ruling class enriching themselves to the detriment of the majority of the populace.

    The U.S.A. has since WWII, with a few speedbumps (Eisenhower probably being the last president with a democratic conscience as well as the support of his administration, the latter being Carter's stumbling block) moved further and further from being a nation based on the respect of human rights, democracy, and a belief in all humans being created equally with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    That "government secrets" are depriving a government agency of the only effective means of control over corruption and self-serving should have been obvious after the reign of Edgar Hoover was investated after his demise.

    This fundamental truth is getting buried time and again: without full accountability to the public, corruption and cronyism will always develop to its fullest potential.

    The only remedy against shady business is conducting business in the open sunlight. Everything else will deteriorate to the least accountable and conscionable way.

    Doing everything in the open has a price. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you want to have government secrets in order to be able to screw over other nations, the one ending up screwed over the most will be yourself since you are nearest and most affected by your government's actions.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 9:30am

    I think this guy should move to North Korea.

     

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    DannyB (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 10:02am

    Re: Please register to have freedom

    I suppose the problem is that you cannot parody these people.

    No matter how insane the parody tries to be, it sounds like something they might actually say.

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 10:03am

    Review of Kinsley's Review...

    I'll make this short... What a pompous ass.

     

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  35.  
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    rapnel, May 23rd, 2014 @ 10:11am

    Re: The Ultimate Head in the Sand Approach

    I submit that it did not.

     

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    Personanongrata, May 23rd, 2014 @ 10:26am

    The New York Times is just another rag for the bottom of the bird cage.

    The propagandist of record, The Grey Lady, is heading down for the count.

     

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  37.  
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    nasch (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 10:44am

    Re: Re:

    It has been long forgotten that we are a Republic by and for the people.
    -
    A Democracy is mob rule... and they do.


    There are multiple definitions of the word "democracy", and whether the US is structured as one depends on which definition you choose. Whether it actually, in practice, fits any of those definitions today is a different question.

     

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    nasch (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 10:49am

    Policies

    What we really can't have — literally can't, because of the Bill of Rights — are policies against those things

    I wish that were true...

     

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    Karl (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 11:15am

    sophisticated about irrelevancies

    sophisticated about irrelevancies and simple-minded about fundamentals

    I really have to remember that phrase. It describes far, far too many people that I have discussions with.

     

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    Spaceman Spiff, May 23rd, 2014 @ 12:28pm

    Excellent!

    A most excellent article. Kinsley should be ashamed of himself!

     

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    John Cressman, May 23rd, 2014 @ 12:38pm

    Communist

    Spoken like the good little Communist he is. Can you hear the Soviet national anthem or the Chinese national anthem playing in the background?

     

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  42.  
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    Richard (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 1:28pm

    Re: Re: Speechless

    To which one could add the quote usually attributed to George Orwell "“Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed; everything else is public relations.”"

    Or John Milton "Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    identicon
    David, May 23rd, 2014 @ 1:41pm

    Re: Communist

    It's the Star-Spangled Banner that's playing, but he'd take anything with enough brass in it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    identicon
    David, May 23rd, 2014 @ 1:43pm

    Re: Re: Communist

    We are both talking about Kinsley here, right?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    identicon
    bshock, May 23rd, 2014 @ 1:45pm

    While of course I agree with the fundamental legal principle Mr. Eisler espouses (moot as it may have become), I find it difficult to take his article seriously when he continues to insist that the U.S. is a democracy. We are an oligarchy of billionaires with a ceremonial government that acts as a combination rubber stamp/proxy/referee for these billionaires. To suggest anything else is insultingly disingenuous.

     

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  46.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2014 @ 1:54pm

    Re:

    His point is that it is SUPPOSED to be a democracy but instead regulatory capture has allowed this sort of thing to occur and continue without any accountability.

     

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  47.  
    identicon
    Socrates, May 23rd, 2014 @ 4:15pm

    'The authorities' in Thailand is stealing Kinsley intelectual property; The final say in what can be said. Without attribution!

    This is a violation of important rights!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    Socrates, May 23rd, 2014 @ 4:42pm

    Re: Re: Please register to have freedom

    Yes. And mandatory yellow dots to identify printers and copy machines is already in place. For real. It's worthless for its claimed purpose, but makes "addressing troublemakers" easier.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, May 23rd, 2014 @ 5:54pm

    This is a great article.

    This should be reposted in the NY Times, Wa. Post, LA Times, Chicago paper(s), and everywhere else.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    icon
    OrganizedThoughtCrime (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:43pm

    Re: Re:

    Still one of the best places around.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    icon
    OrganizedThoughtCrime (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 8:46pm

    Re:

    It's definitely not paranoia anymore. Just look at the way Amazon remotely deleted e-books of 1984 which their customers had already paid for, as an example.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    icon
    OrganizedThoughtCrime (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 9:01pm

    Re:

    Thank you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    icon
    OrganizedThoughtCrime (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 9:12pm

    Re: Policies

    It is true, legally. They'll try to tell you otherwise at every turn, but it is true. That's why their criminal activity is exactly that. All one really needs to understand is that the US Constitution is the highest law of the land, and that in order to change or nullify any part of it requires a Constitutional amendment.

     

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  54.  
    identicon
    Lisa, May 23rd, 2014 @ 9:19pm

    These are not policies

    Truly great article. Thank you!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    identicon
    nasch, May 23rd, 2014 @ 10:55pm

    Re: Re: Policies

    Yes, but I mean factually. Legally, the NSA can't spy domestically without warrants. Legally the police can't shoot you without justification or arrest you without probable cause. Legally administration officials can't lie to congress. I could go on, but I'm sure you see my point about the difference between what our government can legally do, and what it actually does.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    icon
    OrganizedThoughtCrime (profile), May 23rd, 2014 @ 11:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Policies

    Yes, of course, laws are made to outline punishment and recompense for crimes, not to actually prevent the crimes themselves. That's a matter for enforcement, and why we are faced with the enormous problem of enforcement's absence, as you know.

    I just wanted to point out, not to you specifically, that something doesn't become legal (even a law or court ruling) just because those who stand to benefit from it say that it is. I'm really responding to these propagandists more than anyone else, because I enjoy language, and I am disgusted by what they try to do with it.

     

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  57.  
    identicon
    Cornanon, May 24th, 2014 @ 6:35am

    Re:

    It's not 'tinfoil hat' at all. Given the vast capabilities of the surveillance industry, I think the concern is real. This is a perfect illustration why the mindset 'I'm not doing anything wrong, so I'm not concerned about surveillance' is extremely dangerous.

    When people suspect they're being 'watched' it tends to change behavior. It's no accident that people who are relatively immune to believing state propaganda are usually the real targets of surveillance. Authoritarian regimes use terrorism to justify the police state, therefore terrorism is needed to perpetuate the state. This is why you've seen that peaceful activist groups in the US repeatedly the targets of domestic surveillance. These are the people who pose a real threat to the police state and their corporate sponsors.

    I once had the great honor to interview Huston Smith who was a colleague of Chomsky's at MIT. I took the opportunity to get his take on Chomsky. He said that Chomsky's genius is the ability to see the world as it is, not how it's portrayed by the elite (paraphrased -- he put it much more articulately). Most importantly, he pointed out that Chomsky is one of the very few important public intellectuals who has consistently been willing to use his considerable intellect to educate the public at great risk to his livelihood and reputation. He's a rare individual. Few people in his position are willing to risk it all to simply tell the truth.

    I think we're at a crossroads when people who are inclined need to educate people in their circle of family and friends. I'm shocked at the number of intelligent people I know who remain oblivious to this growing threat.

     

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  58.  
    identicon
    anonymous, May 25th, 2014 @ 12:56am

    Re: Re: Speechless

    This! Making a statement like the 'journalist' is literally treason in a country where an uninformed public is dangerous to the democratic and republic processes of law. When do some heads get their hair shaved off?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    Joe, May 25th, 2014 @ 1:05am

    Re:

    "But comrade, the people have ruled - are you some kind of hooligan who disrespects his fellow man?!"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    Joe, May 25th, 2014 @ 1:14am

    Re:

    Actually, the parties have flip-flopped many times. Just look back to the civil rights movement!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    Joe, May 25th, 2014 @ 1:21am

    Re: The ultimate confusion:

    There is actually an interesting subfield of psychology dealing with corruption and impudence. If only 1 in 10000 is a rapist, but the 100K know they're unlikely to ever be punished and can even punish the person who turned them in, then you WILL have (likely way) more rapes than if this wasn't true, all other things being equal.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Joe, May 25th, 2014 @ 1:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Policies

    Irony: It's our duty to enforce the laws against politicians. Sadly, they've found ways to weasel their way out of it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Joe, May 25th, 2014 @ 1:33am

    Re: Re:

    Actually, if someone tried to make it a '(special)people's democracy', I'd be one of the first to show up at an army recruiting center. It's a (democratic-representative) republic, if we can keep it. A majority (mob) rule would be pretty inconvenient if you didn't appear to be exactly like the average. It's like that saying that "normal people aren't" where everyone is afraid to be themselves in countries with a Soviet style of government.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    Joe, May 25th, 2014 @ 1:37am

    Re:

    *damn thing eats left-arrows* *left-arrow*----

    Exactly why a People's Republic is exactly everything but what it says on the tin. If you wanted to be honest, you'd reword it like this: "But slave, the elite have decreed - are you some kind of individualist that disrespects their authoritah?!"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    Arthur Comings, May 25th, 2014 @ 3:51pm

    democracy

    In a democracy? What does that have to do with this anti-democratic opinion?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    icon
    Ninja (profile), May 26th, 2014 @ 7:17am

    Re: sophisticated about irrelevancies

    He's basically ignoring that this is fundamentally arguing that his profession is useless.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    Pragmatic, May 28th, 2014 @ 3:27am

    Re: Forgotten

    ^THIS!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    Bobbie, May 29th, 2014 @ 10:03pm

    This is democracy?

    Could Michael Kinsley please explain how a government can be considered democratic, if it can carry on questionably legal or outright illegal activities and can lie to its citizens about all manner of things while retaining unto itself the power to keep such activities and lies secret. By what logic is such a government representative of its citizens when the citizens are kept in a state of ignorance about what is being done in their names? Without a truly free press, there would be no independent check upon governmental abuse of power and no possibility of public discussion about it. Such a state of affairs is hardly democratic but it does resemble what is found in autocratic nations.

    It is well known that Michael Kinsley has had Parkinsonism for more than twenty years, and his recent screed against Glenn Greenwald may be evidence that the disease is affecting his thought processes.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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