No, Government Computers Won't Suddenly Be Vulnerable To Hackers On April 8; They Already Are

from the this-is-reporting? dept

The Washington Post has an article about how, even though it's long been known that Microsoft is sunsetting support for Windows XP on April 8th of this year, about 10% of US government computers still run XP. Because of this, the article declares that government computers running Windows XP will be vulnerable to hackers after April 8. While technically true (they will be vulnerable after April 8th) what would be a hell of a lot more true is to actually note that they're extremely vulnerable to hackers today and have been just as vulnerable for years. Microsoft sunsetting its support doesn't change that one way or the other.

What's incredible, is that for all the FUD being spread around by government officials about "cyberwar," "cyberattacks" and "cybersecurity," you'd think that getting the government's own house in order would be more of a priority. Outgoing NSA boss General Keith Alexander keeps claiming that he needs more access to private networks to protect them from foreign hackers (yeah, right), and yet this report notes that all sorts of classified government material is sitting on Windows XP computers.
That includes thousands of computers on classified military and diplomatic networks, U.S. officials said. Such networks have stronger defenses generally but hold more sensitive material, raising the stakes for breaches if they occur.
Given how sophisticated the NSA's abilities are to infiltrate just about any computer out there, as revealed by multiple documents leaked by Ed Snowden, you'd think that the NSA would be a bit more proactive in helping to shore up our own defenses by doing things like no longer using Windows XP.

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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 11:57am

    Do as we say not as we do!

     

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    Zos (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 12:01pm

    why? that would only make it harder for them to spy on the rest of government as well.

     

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    Michael, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 12:02pm

    about 10% of US government computers still run XP

    and the other 90% are running Windows ME

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 12:13pm

    NSA's interested is to keep everyone exploitable, not to protect them and secure their PCs.

     

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    crade (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 12:30pm

    How is XP less secure than other windows OSes? All they have done since then is add fancy guis.

     

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      John Fenderson (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 12:40pm

      Re:

      The case they're making isn't that it's less secure now, it's that as security flaws are discovered over time, they won't be patched in XP, but will in other OSes.

      It's a true and real issue, but there's a lot of hyperbolic handwringing that makes it sound much worse than it really is. It's not doomsday by any means, but it does mean that you should be extra vigilant about XP machines and take all the security measures you should always have been taking, but probably weren't.

       

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        crade (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 3:51pm

        Re: Re:

        Yes, which makes sense, but the point of this article as far as I can tell is that they won't get less secure over time, they already are unsecure because they are running windows XP

         

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          John Fenderson (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 3:57pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Yes, my comment was talking about the alarm cried in the press at large, not so much about this particular article. The press is getting stoked into a frenzy over this issue because Microsoft is stoking it in an attempt to sell more copies of Windows 8.

           

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      mcinsand, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 12:40pm

      XP security

      Later versions of Windows have most of XP's security holes plugged. Sure, MS puts in dozens of new holes for every one that they fix, but, hey, it is Windows.

      Seriously, though. Advocating Windows at all disqualifies a person or organization from the topic of security. Windows is inherently insecure... it probably has more baked-in insecurity than the NSA could ever hope for...so you aren't going to tolerate it if security matters to you. There is no modularity and, worst of all, the browser is also fully integrated. Unlike every other operating system, cracking the browser makes owning the whole system a cakewalk.

       

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        Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 12:59pm

        Re: XP security

        Agreed in full. Actual real live security professionals don't discuss "securing Windows" because they know it's impossible.

        And let's not forget: just last week we learned that the NSA is buying 0-days from commercial firms who specialize in discovering them. Surely nobody thinks those companies are selling solely to the NSA or that they're the only companies in that business. I'm sure there are some selling to the Brits, the Chinese, the Germans, the Russians, whoever has enough cash to pay them. So all those systems running all those versions of Windows are vulnerable to a heck of a lot of people.

         

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        Keroberos (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 1:25pm

        Re: XP security

        Windows is inherently insecure...
        AllOS's are inherently insecure. Security really isn't something that can be inherent to a piece of software. Any OS or app can be hacked.

         

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          mcinsand, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 1:58pm

          Re: Re: XP security

          >>AllOS's are inherently insecure.

          Let's clean that up to make it a lot less innacurate:

          All OS's have some insecurities.

          There, that is an accurate statement.

          The only family that is inherently insecure is Windows, and that will continue to be so until they abandon the idea of a megalithic architecture. Sure, it was a great business decision when there were competitors offering separate browsers, audio players, disk compression utilities, etc. By integrating those modules into the operating system so intimately, what was forced as part of the OS obviated the need for a user to buy competing products. However, baking all of that together is what takes Windows uniquely from having 'some insecurities' to being 'inherently insecure.'

           

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            AzureSky (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 2:18pm

            Re: Re: Re: XP security

            i suggest you look up osx and linux known bugs/security flaws then look up each app that tends to come with common distros or that people install, every last one of them is full of bugs and holes, *nix is no more secure then windows by default, infact, many distros are less secure, the main advantage *nix has, its not got a large enough desktop user base to build much malware/scareware for it, where windows and even OSX are much more attractive targets.

            i use bsd/linux/windows every day and, they all have their good points and bad, btw, IE is currently more secure then firefox so that arguements out, WMP has less security flaws then the most common 3rd party players under windows(though it is a crappy media player honestly)

            if you want security, you really shouldnt be looking at popular or common software.

            try beos/haiku that should be more secure then win/lin/oxs/bsd for desktop use...though its not really ready for prime....

             

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              PaulT (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 1:51am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: XP security

              "*nix is no more secure then windows by default"

              Erm, but you just said that the insecurity comes from the apps. make up your mind, you're as guilty of FUD as anyone saying that Windows is an insecure POS (which it is, but far, far less so than it used to be).

              "the main advantage *nix has, its not got a large enough desktop user base to build much malware/scareware for it, where windows and even OSX are much more attractive targets."

              Again, make up your mind. Above, you lump in OSX as a *nix distro to make your point, now you're claiming it's not so you can pretend that desktop install base is the important thing. Be consistent.

              What actually makes *nix distros more secure normally is the security model - something that Windows has recently copied on the desktop, although it's been a long time coming. That's why 3rd party apps and plugins are attacked more commonly now rather than OS components - Java, Flash, Acrobat, etc. are often the common attack vectors now - all of which are cross-platform.

              "if you want security, you really shouldnt be looking at popular or common software."

              If you support security through obscurity as the best option, you're either lying to yourself or don't have a clue what you're talking about.

               

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            John Fenderson (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 3:20pm

            Re: Re: Re: XP security

            "The only family that is inherently insecure is Windows"

            As others have correctly noted, this is either a untrue statement (by virtue of being far to simplistic) or is a nonsensical statement.

            Your criticisms of some of the security weaknesses in Windows have a kernel of truth, but for every one of those that you can point to in Windows (and you haven't even pointed to the most concerning ones), you can find ones of roughly equal severity in literally every other OS that exists.

            If you want serious security, you need to put aside your prejudices and be able to take a cold, real look at the problems presented by the platforms you want to use. Because every one of them has problems, and they differ from each other in details.

             

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              crade (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 4:04pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: XP security

              Windows isn't the only platform that can be hacked, but it is inherently less secure due to it's willingness at a base level to run code obtained remotely without any oversight. They added high level stuff to do the oversight, but that's just painting over rotten wood. There are not equal security flaws in Unix. Linux or Solaris can have security flaws and even hypothetically could have some that Windows doesn't have, but not permanent ones that can't be resolved by patch or configuration.

               

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                AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 1:19am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XP security

                http://waa.ai/ruc

                www.extremetech.com/computing/177882-massive-linux-security-flaw-dwarfs-apples-cryp tography-problems-of-just-last-week

                www.networkworld.com/news/2014/030414-linux-security-279392.html

                t hats just a 10sec google search, i will be back very soon with a really nasty one that caused issues for a bunch of websites if i can remember what the search term for it is.

                 

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                  AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 1:26am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XP security

                  will have to ask my buddy i cant for the life of me remember the right thing to search but AFIK it was an issue with LAMP that made web news pretty heavily for a few weeks last year, and was pretty nasty bug, but only effected linux setups, windows servers where immune even if they ran AMP.

                   

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                    crade (profile), Mar 19th, 2014 @ 7:47am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XP security

                    Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Linux can have security flaws easily (and usually quickly) fixed by patches or configuration. It's impossible for any OS not to have that, but that's nothing stacked against the fundamental design being insecure. The fact that windows has "the ability to get viruses" will only change if they redesign it.

                     

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                  Anonymous Coward, Mar 18th, 2014 @ 7:45am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: XP security

                  Why don't you go away, study, and come back after you've learned enough to distinguish between a bug in a cryptographic protocol, and OS privilege escalation vulnerabilities?

                  Until then it's rather obvious from where you're pulling out your opinions on this topic...

                   

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        PRMan, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 2:49pm

        Re: XP security

        Except that recently there are more security issues (and serious security issues) in Linux and Apple than Windows. This has been the case for about 3 years now.

        But don't let the facts interfere with your fanboy hatred.

         

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      Keroberos (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 1:13pm

      Re:

      All they have done since then is add fancy guis.
      Um...No. Microsoft has added quite a few under the hood security enhancements since XP. Examples: Address Space Layout Randomization--Prior to Vista, many (all?) of Window's processes ran in the same memory space on every computer, that makes it very easy for a malicious program to hook into Window's core functions. Improved Data Execution Prevention, especially in 64bit versions--prevents buffer overflow errors from executing code. Application isolation--A low level app (non administrator) cannot hook into a higher level app or function or make any changes to the system or other apps (yes those annoying UAC prompts are there for a reason).

       

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        AzureSky (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 2:25pm

        Re: Re:

        yup, infact, a friend of mine who works for a large banking firm says they have found windows vista/7/8/8.1 to be more secure then the linux build 1/2 their desktops where running, and after alot of testing they decided to just go with windows 7 and a 3rd party security suit, since with the tools MS offers it makes it easy for them to update group policies and such easily, and now even their own internal apps self update(using a torrent based updater!!!)

        its pretty cool really, they also considered BSD but discovered that the new desktops they had bought over 1500 of(for replacing on p4/p-d xp systems) didnt have good driver support under bsd yet.

        7 however works great and they where able to set it up so that the systems dont have WMP or even IE installed, they have Seamonkey and Chrome, as well as VLC all setup to be updated once a month as needed. (they went with vlc because despite its flaws, it can play videos direct from iso files linked over the network, and that saved IT alot of time and effort)

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 2:51pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Those computers are mainly interfaces for people though. I am sure they have all the critical backend systems that the users connect to on unix servers. The custom apps are most likely a way to communicate with those servers which host sensitive databases etc...

          But your point still stands... windows is secure enough for lots of tasks.

           

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            AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 1:30am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            actually its 2/3 windows server 1/3 *nix based(some solaris, some bsd some linux)

            the custom apps for the most part access some old ass telnet based systems that the company dosnt want to pay to replace/update but needed to do something to make them more user friendly.

            so they stuck a UI over the telnet system.

            biggest thing with windows is to not let the user install their own apps(unless they know WTF they are doing, most dont)

            but thats true with OSX and even Linux, if you give the user to much power, they will fuck shit up.....ask anybody in IT, or tech support...users are the biggest flaw in security in any system...be it computers of physical security.

            as the old joke goes, every time you produce an idiot proof device/system, the world produces a new breed of idiots able to fuck it all up.

             

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              AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 11:11am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              omg i was just talking to him, he says the company also has 2 apps that are still written on cobold *shudders* that they ARE working on replacing(server side stuff i think from what he said)

               

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        Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 2:34pm

        Re: Re:

        Meh... those are small but needed enhancements really.

        What makes Windows so good, even better than Linux (inb4 people crying) is the use of dll files as a shared library. If it wasn't so damn vulnerable to people abusing the dll files then it is the way to build a great OS. All those new "features" that you mentioned are to protect the dll file "building block" approach that windows use.
        Of course I am ignoring the openness of the OS which lets it down dramatically and makes the "building block" method that windows uses useless for outsiders to improve the core OS.

        tl:dr
        The improvements are good but they are just incremental improvements to the core "dll file building block" method windows is built with.

         

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          John Fenderson (profile), Mar 17th, 2014 @ 3:24pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          "What makes Windows so good, even better than Linux (inb4 people crying) is the use of dll files as a shared library."

          You do realize that Unices, including Linux, have an equivalent mechanism, right? In fact, the Unix mechanism is older and more mature, and the Windows mechanism borrows a lot of its operating details from the Unix way. (Not enough, though, as the Windows mechanism suffers from several serious problems that the Unix mechanism avoids.)

           

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            AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 1:37am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            unix/solaris/bsd are better systems then linux in my exp, but they all have their flaws, no system with humans involved is perfect.

            linux still suffers dependancy hell, its part of why I dont really care to use it as my primary os even at work where, i could get away with it(here I game and dont feel like fucking around with wine for hours to get new games working)

            I will say,despite the bs people say I like Solaris on sparc systems with the Java based UI, it actually works REALLY well, havent tried it on an x86/x86-64 system in many years though, on the other hand bsd works well on simi-modern hardware, but not so well on older hardware, and depending on the linux version it can work great on older hardware or be unuseable.

            ubuntu on my office system wouldnt fly, would be slower then 7 is( i have tested it) on the other hand vector linux(slack based) runs great, its just easier to leave 7 on there so others who use that system dont bitch about it not being what they are use to.....

            again though, as i think we all know, the biggest security flaw in any system is the user....EUE/PEBKAM/ID10T and a slew of others....we use to leave text files in the root of systems with those terms in them so anybody else paid to work on the system would know what they where dealing with.

             

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              PaulT (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 2:04am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "linux still suffers dependancy hell"

              Citation needed. I haven't had a problem with that for years.

              "here I game and dont feel like fucking around with wine for hours to get new games working"

              Native games still exist, as does dual booting. Why are you judging Linux by whether or not something it was ever intended to run works perfectly? I like to play old DOS games sometimes on my OSX machine, but I don't bitch about having to play with DOSBox to do so. Why not judge the OS by the things that were actually made for it?

              "ubuntu on my office system wouldnt fly, would be slower then 7 is( i have tested it)"

              I also find this doubtful, but I suppose it depends on which desktop you've chosen, what hardware you have, etc. Did you actually install it or just try the live CD, btw? If find people who say this often compare the live CD's performance to their hard drive install of Windows - not a fair comparison.

              " its just easier to leave 7 on there so others who use that system dont bitch about it not being what they are use to"

              So, you admit it's your user training that's the problem, not the OS. You'll have the same problem moving people to a different version of Windows (especially 8) if you don't train them - people in my office bitched plenty moving from Windows XP to 7 (or even Office 2003 to 2007).

              "again though, as i think we all know, the biggest security flaw in any system is the user....EUE/PEBKAM/ID10T"

              At least you hit the truth. If Windows is less secure than Linux, it's often because people who don't know what they're doing find it easy to use. Although, if you were needing to openly inform your technicians that people could be idiots, you're not only unprofessional but you need new technicians.

               

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                AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 2:54am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                dual booting is a pain in the ass, and of my 300+ games on steam, around 60 work on linux, most of them i dont play and got via deals like humble bundles/indiroyal/ect.

                and PaulT, i have run ubuntu on the the same class of hardware as that office system, its slower, i dont got exact specs at the moment but its an old c2d based HP/Compaq mini pc designed for office work and not much else, running bsd or ubuntu is slower then windows on that system, vector would be faster, but its a light weight distro unlike ubuntu thats far from light.

                and the txt file was a common thing done back in the 90's to mid 2k's by computer shops, not in offices, we did it incase the user brought the system to another shop so that the tech would know what they where dealing with, it wasnt to be rude or mean, it was a time saver knowing you where probably best off disregarding what the user told you and figuring out the problem yourself.

                an example would be a user to would randomly delete files/folders to free up space without knowing WTF they where doing then would say stuff like "it just stopped working, i have no idea why, microsoft sucks"

                as to when i talk about at the current office system, its my mother and 2 other people who use it, people who are hard to impossible to train in anything they are not familiar with, my mother can adapt to a point but if things arent what she expects, she gets frustrated, the family friend who helps out at the office is in her 60's she can facebook and play web games but trying to teach her to use anything shes not use to is pretty much impossible, I went so far as to print out images for her on how to login to the scheduling system we use for the front desk, as well as images on how to add appts, she STILL couldnt do it....shes a nice old lady but shes very very limited.

                oh and dont get me started on the 2003 to 2007 thing, my mother took over a year to adapt.....

                funny enough, she had no issues going from xp/2003 to 7, and on 8 all i had to do was insall iobit's start menu and shes happy with her new hp laptop.

                and looking back up, no it was full install from a cd/dvd not a live disk, though, vector beats ubuntu there as well, feel free to try it out vs ubuntu.

                ubuntu is to me and many others the unpatched windows vista of the linux world, its great for noobs but its far from the best distro out there.

                hell, i would rather install slackware then ubuntu despite ubuntu being easier to install(all point and click vs command line)

                that old POS at the office front desk is what it is, it runs well under windows 7, but dosnt work well with bsd or heavier linux distro's, yes i know i could go threw and hand optimize and even recompile stuff to be optimal for that system but, thats alot of work for little gain when i could just install 7 and have a system they arent gonna complain about using.

                and i wasnt judging linux as a whole by its gaming support, i was stating why it isnt my primary choice of os for home use, sorry that upsets you.

                you sound like you love linux, and thats fine, its a great os for some uses, and for some people, I prefer it for webservers for example over windows options because you can get more out of less, for desktop it depends.

                if a user just uses the net and some light typing and such, i may install vector and update it, adding/removing apps as needed for their useage, and then leave it for years, infact the woman down the street has an old first gen dual core system that I setup with vector 5+ years ago and all i have done for her since is update the browser and stuff like flash, leaving the rest as is, because, it just works and shes use to it, if that changes and i need to install a newer version of linux i will but, if its working for her uses(mail/facebook/ect) then why mess with it?

                on the other hand, if i setup a gaming system for somebody i wont choose linux, if i setup a system for somebody who wants to use alot of retail software, im not gonna put them on linux...because thats not a strong point of linux.

                seems like your pushing the "linux for everybody and everything" angle when linux is far from optimal for the average joe sixpack type user who just wants to be able to buy an app at the store or on amazon and have it work.

                oh btw, when linus adopts a HAL and stable driver API/ABI let me know, i got sick of kernal updates breaking my drivers on my old laptop so i installed bsd on it instead, sure i dont got the latest versions of most apps but, at least updates dont leave me with no sound or working video driver or working nic or or or or.....*bangs head into desk*

                again though, linux is great for what it is, i just dont think its really a replacement for windows for the GP, and am starting to doubt it ever will be even with steambox type projects coming out....

                 

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                  PaulT (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 3:22am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "dual booting is a pain in the ass, and of my 300+ games on steam, around 60 work on linux, most of them i dont play and got via deals like humble bundles/indiroyal/ect. "

                  So, you admit you're trying to use software on an OS that was neither developed for the OS nor ported to it, and that's the OS's fault? If Linux doesn't meet your personal needs, that's fine. Stop pretending your own needs match everyone else's.

                  You need to choose the tools for the job you wish to perform. If you're using a screwdriver to try and bang in a nail, it's not the screwdriver manufacturer's fault that the results are less than satisfying.

                  The rest of your screed is just as logical and/or based on highly subjective crap that doesn't bear any relation to how others use the platforms you're attacking.

                  "it runs well under windows 7, but dosnt work well with bsd or heavier linux distro'"

                  So why not use a lighter distro?

                  "seems like your pushing the "linux for everybody and everything" angle "

                  You either need your eyes tested or pull your head out of your ass, one or the other. I'm doing no such thing. There's nothing wrong with Windows as a choice, but half the crap you're spouting in your rants is either outright false, classic FUD or purely down to opinion. Stop pretending it's gospel, especially since you're ignoring most use cases for Linux in the first place.

                   

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                    AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 11:09am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    again you put words in my mouth, unlike lintards I dont try and say linux or windows are great for things they are bad at, like gaming, linux isnt a gaming platform but valve is trying to change that because gabe hates windows 8 and the MS store soooo much he has to do something. (im no fan of the ms MODERN app store, its crap but, its still not trying to block use of 3rd party apps like steam and games downloaded/installed with steam like gabe was implying it would be.

                    to me you seem to be advocating moving everybody over to a screw driver when they need a a hammer, have you see the "why linux sucks" videos? they arent attacks on linux they are linux users and devs talking about why linux isnt the best tool for many jobs/people, they also do a part of why its great, BUT even they admit, there are some serious core flaws in linux(like tyeing the drivers directly to the kernal!!!)

                    as i said linux is great for some uses, its not great for the average user as a desktop os, sorry that upsets you, really I am sorry it upsets you, because even most linux dev's admit its not really an option for the majority of society at this point.

                    i never mentioned needing the command line though, there are times its easier to do something by command line then it is using the gui's in various distro's note: i do not see that as a bad thing, but as a reason i wouldnt put somebody with little pc skill/knowledge on linux or bsd, command line is not idiot friendly.

                    but hey whatever, you wana advocate linux for everybody, go for it, im not gonna stop you, i will just make money installing windows for people who got talked into using ubuntu and then discovered it wouldnt run the apps/games/ect they wanted as have been doing for years.

                     

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                      PaulT (profile), Mar 19th, 2014 @ 3:09am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "lintards"

                      Oh dear, I'm dealing with a child. Sorry, I should have realised that after I confirmed how mature you were when dealing with clients,

                      For the record - I'm currently on a Windows 7 machine, but I generally use OSX at home. My work environment consists of Windows desktops and Linux servers, and various other OSes in use on different physical and virtualised production platforms including those embedded into routers and switches. I have no horse in this race, except to diffuse some of the outright lies and general crap you're spewing.

                      You're entitled to your opinion, but stop whining just because you can't play your favourite game on Linux without making some effort. It's a stupid argument, and Linux does some other things far, far better than Windows ever will - and vice versa.

                      "to me you seem to be advocating moving everybody over to a screw driver when they need a a hammer"

                      Learn to read. Please. You're fighting your own imagination here.

                      "they are linux users and devs talking about why linux isnt the best tool for many jobs/people"

                      Neither is Windows. Neither is OSX. Neither is iOS. Neither is Android. Neither is FreeBSD. Neither is FreeDOS... and so on. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

                      You seem to be intent on only attacking one of these things, though.

                      "as i said linux is great for some uses, its not great for the average user as a desktop os,"

                      I agree. That has nothing to do with half the idiocy you're spouting though.

                      "i never mentioned needing the command line though"

                      Learn some reading comprehension. I never said you did, it's just another one of the tired bullshit arguments that gets trotted out alongside the ones you're using.

                       

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            •  
              icon
              John Fenderson (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 6:42am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "linux still suffers dependancy hell,"

              Not so much. That problem, while not completely eliminated, has been drastically reduced for a long while now. I haven't personally encountered it in years.

              "ubuntu on my office system wouldnt fly"

              You got further than I -- I could never get Ubuntu to work for me at all. Although I haven't tried in a long time. But a bad distro (and I count Ubuntu as a bad distro) does not mean anything about Linux in general.

               

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              •  
                icon
                PaulT (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 8:16am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                "Not so much. That problem, while not completely eliminated, has been drastically reduced for a long while now. I haven't personally encountered it in years."

                It's like the usual "but you have to install from source" or "you have to use to command line to configure anything" and other arguments. Yes, they *may* have been true a long time ago, but the problems either don't exist any longer or are no more of a concern than other comparable OSes.

                I've asked for a citation (ignored, of course), but he seem to be once of the usual people who either haven't bothered to learn how to use Linux properly (and so blame Linux for their own ignorance) or are doing the equivalent of attacking Windows 7 because pre-SP1 XP had a lot of issues.

                "I could never get Ubuntu to work for me at all."

                I haven't used it for a long time, but I never had many issues until they started forcing Unity on everyone. If that's the problem, then it is indeed a bad distro - and a problem with Unity rather than Linux. In other words, it's like Windows 8 - the underlying OS is sound but Metro kills the experience for many, but it's the decision to push Metro that's the problem, not that Windows is an inherently bad platform. But, nobody's forcing him to use Ubuntu at all, let alone just the flavours that use Unity.

                 

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                •  
                  icon
                  John Fenderson (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 8:55am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  No, my problem with Ubuntu is that I could never get it to work, period. As in I could never install and end up with a functioning OS. It has nothing to do with Unity.

                  But I gave up on Ubuntu years ago because of that (I generally just use straight-up Debian, which has always been problem-free for me), they may have fixed the problems by now.

                   

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                  •  
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                    AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 11:19am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    then your "DoingItWrong" because linux is both user friendly and perfect for every task/situation.

                    @PaulT http://youtu.be/QKwWPQ1Orzs

                    linux is flawless linux devs say so, so i admit i was wrong, everybody should be using linux, its the perfect screwdriver to drive nails threw concrete

                    as to dependancy issues, they mostly seem to arise because devlopers tie apps to specific version of other packages like GTK but hey, that never happns anymore accorting to PaulT so i must not have just dealt with this 2 weeks ago on a clients laptop after she tried to upgrade 2 apps she uses and discovered that the package manager didnt grab them

                     

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                    •  
                      icon
                      AzureSky (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 4:27pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                       

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                    •  
                      identicon
                      Anonymous Coward, Mar 18th, 2014 @ 10:31pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Everyone can see that you're misrepresenting the opinions of the people you reply to by replacing them with strawmen... go back to trolling school...

                       

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                    •  
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                      PaulT (profile), Mar 19th, 2014 @ 3:15am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Please respond to arguments I actually made, not fantasies you made up to attack.

                      I'll be here waiting for you to learn to read and comprehend a full argument. I expect it's going to be around the time you manage to find the shift key on your keyboard, but I'll be happy to respond to any argument you have against something I've actually said.

                      Also, which package manager were you using? I'll be happy to concede if you found a genuine problem, but so far you've given me no reason to believe you, nor to consider your problem was anything but a one-off issue (or one that your own lack of knowledge caused in the first place).

                      If it was an isolated issue - do you also consider Windows to have major dependency issues what it tells you that you need to have a specific version of .NET Framework before you can install something?

                       

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  •  
    identicon
    Personanongrata, Mar 17th, 2014 @ 6:13pm

    NSA may not defend against exploits very well but they have a wickedcool mock-up of the USS Enterprise's bridge at their HQ.

    Boldly going where no tyrant has before.

     

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  •  
    icon
    A. Nnoyed (profile), Mar 18th, 2014 @ 5:29am

    To conservatives it is about protecting the children.

    Where is the NSA when you need the NSA. Conservatives that want to implement draconian laws about restricting the uses of the internet always claims that the restrictions are about protecting the children. I don't hear the conservatives cries, that failing to continue to support correcting security issues related to Windows XP endangers the children. While Bill Gates is interested in helping the children in foreign countries, Microsoft is unwilling to protect the children using Windows XP, by failing to continue to patch XP security issues. If one goes through most newspapers archives, since Windows XP was introduced, they will find articles about organizations that refurbishes old donated computers and gives them to poor children. A family that cannot afford a computer for their children cannot afford a new operating system or have the technical skills to install the new operating system, even if the hardware will support the new operating system. Unless Microsoft forces XP users to stop using their computers, all of those unpatched computers will serve as vectors to spread viruses.

     

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  •  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Mar 18th, 2014 @ 4:38pm

    Oh no!

    It's Y2K all over again!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    GEMont, Mar 18th, 2014 @ 6:00pm

    Business as usual

    Actually, this is just another business ruse.

    They will use the "vulnerability" proclaimed by the Truth-Free Press, as an excuse for losing a shitload of important, but incriminating evidence, pertaining to both their own wrong-doings and those of their business partners in the insurance, entertainment, pharmaceutical and energy industries, to name but a few.

    As a bonus, they can blame it all on hackers and create new legislation against these invisible evil hackers - (a subset of invisible evil terrorists), that will actually just erase more of the US public's rights and freedoms, as usual.

    They're just prepping the public through their media organs for the next BS constitution coup.

     

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    •  
      icon
      BeeAitch (profile), Mar 19th, 2014 @ 5:34pm

      Re:

      Spam much?

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        icon
        AzureSky (profile), Mar 19th, 2014 @ 9:23pm

        Re: Re:

        clearly the admin who approved the post didnt think it was spam, and yes it was admin approved.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        •  
          icon
          PaulT (profile), Mar 20th, 2014 @ 2:35am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Your cut and paste skills are even worse than your typing and reading skills. That's an achievement of a sort, I suppose, as is the fact that you've given up even trying to address any argument whether it's a figmoent of your own imagination or not.

          Oh, and it is spam, really, no matter if someone approved it. You've given up even trying to address arguments and are now just pasting links to a random resource with no context. That's spam, double so if it's your own shitty blog you're linking to in a pathetic attempt to boost your own traffic.

           

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          •  
            icon
            AzureSky (profile), Mar 20th, 2014 @ 10:01am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            clearly mr.know-it-all PaulT you dont know about tm repository, its bee around quite a while now, its not mine, its just a site i find amusing, I give up trying to discuss with you because, nothing i say has any validitiy to you, its all"bullshit"

            like your implying i said you have to use the command line for everything in linux....i never said or implied that but, hey anything you can type out to discredit somebody whos opinion and experiance you dont agree with/like huh?

            you should take it as a win, that i have accepted that linux is great for the desktop, has ZERO flaws and is just the best OS ever, hell even for gaming, you just gotta dick around for a few hours to get new games working 3/4 of the time thats no big deal!!!!

            there are never any dependancy problems or driver problems, everything just works.

            you win, im a Winbred™ and only tell WinbredLies™

            http://www.tmrepository.com/trademarks/winbred/
            http://www.tmrepository.com/trademarks/wi nbredlies/

             

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            •  
              icon
              PaulT (profile), Mar 22nd, 2014 @ 3:25am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              "its bee around quite a while now"

              Are you actually regressing further into childhood? You seem to be losing the tiny ability to communicate that you already had, even if you ignore the idiotic premise that you're proposing (I don't know site X therefore I'm somehow wrong).

              "like your implying i said you have to use the command line for everything in linux"

              Quote where I did this. If you read again, maybe you';ll realise no such thing happened.

              "that i have accepted that linux is great for the desktop, has ZERO flaws and is just the best OS ever"

              Whatever you claim. Perhaps in your tiny childish mind, the thought will occur to you that I've not only never proposed such a thing, but actually said things against it in this very thread. Maybe when your education reaches high school level, you'll realise this, but you're clearly not there yet.

               

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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