Senator Feinstein Finally Finds Surveillance To Get Angry About: When It Happened To Her Staffers

from the well,-look-at-that dept

This morning, Senator Dianne Feinstein finally got angry over the abusive practices of the intelligence community that she oversees as head of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Historically, of course, Feinstein has used her role of "oversight" to actually do everything possible to protect and defend the various intelligence organizations. However, as we've been discussing, Feinstein has wanted to declassify and publish an apparently devastating $40 million 6,300 page report detailing how the CIA's torture program was a complete disaster. The CIA has been fighting hard against this, and in the last few weeks, it came out that the CIA also spied on Senate staffers who were working on the report, after they'd uncovered an internal CIA document that corroborated the big report, and which showed the CIA had lied to the Senate. The CIA has hit back trying to blame the staffers for "illegally" taking a classified document, but that argument rings hollow.

Feinstein is apparently quite furious about all of this and let loose this morning about the CIA, claiming that they not only spied on the staffers, but secretly removed documents from the computers the staffers were using. She directly claimed that the CIA "may have undermined the constitutional framework" of Congressional oversight. That's not a charge one throws around lightly.
Besides possible constitutional violations, Feinstein said the CIA may also have violated the Fourth Amendment, various federal laws and a presidential executive order that bars the agency from conducting domestic searches and surveillance. She said she has asked for an apology and recognition that the CIA search of the committee's computers was inappropriate, but, "I have received neither."
While this confirms much of what was reported last week, it's noteworthy that Feinstein is speaking out about it. To date, she has tried to avoid saying much about this whole debate publicly, but it appears that the issue has finally boiled over. As we noted last week, having the CIA spy on its Senate overseers (and potentially tampering with their computers to remove documents) is an incredible overreach.

Of course, wasn't it just less than two months ago that Feinstein claimed that the intelligence community would never abuse its powers, because they were made up of professionals whose activities are "strictly vetted"? Perhaps she'll now go back and admit that perhaps she shouldn't be so trusting of the intelligence community when they're spying on everyone else, beyond just her staffers.

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  1.  
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    silverscarcat (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 7:32am

    NOW it's important...

    NOW she says the 4th Amendment is important.

    HA! Don't make me laugh, you goddammed fucking hypocrite! You're only upset because you found out that the CIA knows all your doctor visits, what you're going in for and any other dirty little secret.

    Don't like, Feinstein, you, like your buddy Mike Rogers, never ONCE cared about the 4th Amendment, privacy or liberty, all you cared about was your paycheck.

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 7:43am

    Feinstein

    Hipocrisy, thy name is politician.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 7:56am

    This is the problem with the ruling class

    The problem with the ruling class is they are ok with trampling on the peasants, but let them be treated the same way and suddenly that pesky document called the constitution is thrown about. This is exactly why we have this document. Its all fun and games when things are happening to other people, the other political party, etc; but it suddenly is objectionable when it happens to you, your party, etc.

     

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    mimeflu, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 7:57am

    Feinstein

    Don't expect this to change anything. This is not the smoking gun you are looking for.

     

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    kenichi tanaka (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:03am

    "She has asked for an apology and recognition that the CIA search of the committee's computers was inappropriate"?

    That's like a slap on the wrist and a promise not to do it again. Just like the last time it happened, and just like the next time it happens. LOLS

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:04am

    "Removed" documents?

    "removed documents from computers"

    Was that the Post's choice of words, or Feinsteins? What the heck do they mean by that? Did they delete all originals? Or was that writer not satisfied with mis-applying "stealing" to the act of unauthorized copying?

     

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    Pixelation, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:06am

    Depressing

    Just think, now Feinstein will be on our side...

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:08am

    Maybe it's just pro-NSA favoratism at work here. Screw the other agencies.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:13am

    Frankenstein or Feinstein's monster ?

    First they came for the Foreigners, and She* did not speak out-- Because She* was not a Foreigner.

    Then they came for the Press, and She* did not speak out-- Because She was not a journalist.

    Then they came for the Local Plebs, and She did not speak out-- Because She was not a Local Pleb.

    Then they came for Her--and there was no one left to speak for Her.





    That woman didn't "not speak out".... She is part of the "they" that comes for people.

    Feinstein's monster.

     

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  10.  
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    David, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:15am

    So when

    So when will she drop her "my kids would never do bad things" act?

    It's piss-poor sad that people like Merkel or Feinstein are totally fine with everybody's privacy getting violated under their "oversight" but get furious when they are given the same treatment they find appropriate for everybody else.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:17am

    >The CIA has hit back trying to blame the staffers for
    >"illegally" taking a classified document, but that argument
    >rings hollow."

    I believe the McClatchy story said that the staffers printed a copy of the classified document and walked out the door with it. That is a huge no-no. You would think the Senate Intelligence Committee would know the most basic rules of how to properly handle classified material. The CIA's argument doesn't ring hollow.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:17am

    Re: This is the problem with the ruling class

    To be fair, this isn't restricted to just the ruling class. When Brazil introduced mandatory fingerprinting+mugshots for foreign visitors, there was an outcry in the US as well. Even though every visitor to the US must undergo the same, and this hasn't changed in the last decade.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:19am

    not so nice when it's you or yours that are on the receiving end, is it Feinstein? getting a taste of your own medicine and it's about time! funny how you never once mentioned how the surveillance of EVERYONE violated the Constitutional Framework! until it was you, that is! what the hell gives you the right to NOT be spied on, but those you defend constantly can spy on everyone else, with your blessing! you need to get the hell outta Dodge!!

     

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    Tyler, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:21am

    Really???

    Feinstein complaining about "possible constitutional violations" WTF!?!? She is the biggest constitutional violation our country has ever seen. If anyone needs spied on it's her!

    She has repeatedly attempted to use her position to violate the constitutional rights of the citizens of United States and particularly those of California.

    She has repeatedly introduced legislation attempting to strip citizens of their second amendment rights while the senator herself excersizes her right to carry a concealed gun/"assault weapon"(hey if she gets to call any gun she wants an assault weapon, so can I).

    She has repeatedly defended the abuses of power agencies under her oversight have used to violate our fourth amendment rights.

    But now, it would seem that her blatant violations of the second and fourth amendments are not enough for her. She is now pushing legislation to limit the rights afforded under the first amendment, namely freedom of the press. Thats right, she wants the government to have more control over the media.

    Feinstein = hypocrite

     

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    art guerrilla (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:30am

    Re: NOW it's important...

    as usual, just depends on whose ox is gored...
    an ox of the 99% ? *yawn* no biggie...
    ox belongs to the 1% ? OMG-CONSTITUTION-RIGHTS-INVIOLATE-WHO-DO-YOU-THINK-YOU'RE-MESSING-WITH-blahblahblah...

    talk about situational ethics...

     

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    yankinwaoz (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:39am

    She lies

    I recently got a letter from Feinstein informing me that the NSA does not spy on US citizens.

    "...please be assured that the NSA does not conduct mass surveillance on U.S. citizens."

    So all those giant Prism taps at ISP's around the country are there to improve network performance?

    I give up.

     

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    John William Nelson (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:42am

    Hypocrite much?

    Wow, this speech literally made me laugh out loud at a Starbucks this morning. And the descend into a fit of snickering.

    Seriously hypocritical.

    Still, maybe this will be a wake up call for the Intelligence Oversight Committee? Probably not, but you never know.

     

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    Crusty the Ex-Clown, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:42am

    Now we know what "CIA" stands for....

    .....Covers Its Ass. It's quite good at doing just that -- other stuff, not so much.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:45am

    The Constitution is not to be used only when it is convenient for you.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:55am

    None of the articles, both here and those linked, do not to my recollection go into any detail about what spying on staffers entailed. In the articles they do provide that the staffers traveled to CIA headquarters and left with copies of classified documents without the CIA's knowledge. At least one of them stated that the CIA learned about the taking of the documents via analysis of its internal computer systems.

    Did the spying extend beyond the above, and if so to what extent?

     

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  21.  
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    Violynne (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 8:58am

    *chuckles.

    Poetic justice is, once again, blissfully defined.

     

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  22.  
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    Miles Barnett (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:08am

    Re:

    Excuse me, but there is a huge difference between illegal and wrong. If you are charged with oversight, then nothing should be off limits. If the CIA is actively trying to thwart your investigation, then it's your job to go behind their backs.

     

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  23.  
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    Reality bites, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:11am

    Re: .. The CIA is incapable of telling the truth.

    If a CIA puke opens its mouth all that ever dribbles out is lies, and stupidity. You can't work for the government and have a brain they are mutually exclusive.

     

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  24.  
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    Phoenix84 (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:11am

    I emailed her, this is her reply (received about a week ago):

    Thank you for your letter expressing your support for reforming National Security Agency (NSA) programs. I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue, and welcome the opportunity to respond.



    First, please be assured that the NSA does not conduct mass surveillance on U.S. citizens. Its mission is to collect foreign signals intelligence to detect foreign national security threats. For your convenience, a summary of the NSA's authorities under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) is available on the agency's website or at http://tinyurl.com/NSA-FISA.



    Please know that I support measures to improve oversight of U.S. intelligence programs and to make them more transparent to the public. On October 31, 2013, I introduced the "FISA Improvements Act" (S. 1631), which would require court review when the NSA call records database is queried, and mandate a series of limitations on how the records can be obtained, stored, and used. It would also authorize the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to designate outside "amici curiae," or "friends of the court," to provide independent perspectives and assist the Court in reviewing matters that present a novel or significant interpretation of law.



    Additionally, on November 5, 2013, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, which I chair, approved the "Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2014" (S. 1681), which would strengthen existing protections that allow whistleblowers in the Intelligence Community to bring their concerns directly to the attention of Congress, inspectors general, and Intelligence Community leaders. The bill would also require the Department of Justice to inform the Congressional intelligence committees of all Office of Legal Counsel opinions regarding intelligence activities, and extend the charter of the Public Interest Declassification Board, which promotes public access to a thorough record of U.S. national security decisions and activities.



    Finally, as Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I have called for a full review of all U.S. intelligence programs. For your convenience, I have included an opinion piece I authored in the San Francisco Chronicle on November 2, 2013 that further outlines proposals that I support.



    Again, thank you for writing. Please know that as Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, I take seriously my responsibility to ensure that national security programs honor the privacy and Fourth Amendment rights of U.S. citizens. I will certainly keep your concerns in mind as Congress considers legislation to reform NSA programs. Should you have any additional questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841.



    Sincerely yours,


    Dianne Feinstein
    United States Senator

     

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  25.  
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    David, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:12am

    Re:

    The CIA's argument rings hollow because it essentially boils down to "success is an excuse for anything". And since one has to make the decision before knowing if and when one might be successful, it's actually like "there are no limits to what we do".

    And it's the job of the oversight committee to make sure that there are limits to what the overseen entities do. So the one party you don't want to get caught messing with, no matter how unfair you feel they might be treating you, is your own oversight committee. You can appeal to a higher instance, but certainly not take matters into your own hands.

    Since that spells out clear as day "we are out of control, and out of oversight".

    The oversight committee is their own d**n fig leaf. If there is a mottled spot, they have nothing to win by taking it out with a machine gun.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:13am

    Re:

    Really? All she wants is an admission and an apology? This isn't a 4 year old that just got caught taking candy without asking. How about actually holding someone accountable for a change? This just shows she doesn't have a clue what it is supposed to mean to be in an oversight position.

     

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  27.  
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    David, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:15am

    Re: She lies

    "...please be assured that the NSA does not conduct mass surveillance on U.S. citizens."

    Once mass is over, on the other hand...

     

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  28.  
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    David, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:17am

    Re: Hypocrite much?

    Still, maybe this will be a wake up call for the Intelligence Oversight Committee?

    Unlikely. They are all closet skeletons.

     

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  29.  
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    JBDragon, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:27am

    Re: Really???

    How this old corrupt hag keeps getting elected, I don't know as I've never once voted for her.

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:27am

    Re: Re: This is the problem with the ruling class

    Americans have practically stopped fighting for their 4th Amendment Rights. Look at the TSA and how many loyal little peasants just acquiesce to their loss of liberty like good little serfs filing through air port terminals!

     

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  31.  
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    TheResidentSkeptic (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:37am

    TO: SysAdmins of all classified materials rooms (CIA/NSA/et. al)

    Please immediately remove all the printers.

    Thank you


    ...problem solved.

     

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  32.  
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    David, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:38am

    Valid complaint

    The Intelligence Oversight Committee is supposed to oversee the CIA spying operations. It cannot reasonably expect to do so if the CIA spies on the oversight committee itself.

    That's a total travesty of "oversight". I'm with Feinstein on that.

    The populace is supposed to oversee the government operations. It cannot reasonably expect to do so if the government spies on the populace itself.

    That's a total travesty of "democracy". I'm against Feinstein on that.

     

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    vastrightwing, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:47am

    If you have nothing to hide

    Senator,

    Why are you so upset? it's for our security and safety. And if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Come on!

     

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  34.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:47am

    Re: "Removed" documents?

    I interpreted that to mean that the CIA deleted documents from their machines (since that's the most reasonable interpretation of the phrase). But your rather apt comment made me think that I may have misinterpreted it...

     

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    harbingerofdoom (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:49am

    Re: Depressing

    that makes me want to hurl myself out the nearest window.

     

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  36.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:51am

    Re:

    It may be a huge no-no, but the argument still rings hollow. It's a fourth-grader's argument: but, but, but, they did wrong so that makes it OK that I did wrong.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:52am

    Re: "Removed" documents?

    The files are in the computer...

     

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  38.  
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    Bill, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:55am

    Re: Depressing

    That's still better than a poke in the eye but only just.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 9:58am

    Re:

    Then the CIA should have used proper channels.

     

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    John Fenderson (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:00am

    Re: Depressing

    No she won't. She wouldn't ever lower herself to be on the side of the filthy masses.

     

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  41.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:02am

    Re: She lies

    I believe her reasoning is the same as the NSA's: they are prohibited from performing surveillance on US citizens and so by definition nothing they do to US citizens counts as "surveillance". QED.

     

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  42.  
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    hjklhuk, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:10am

    Re: She lies

    dude post a pic

     

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    silverscarcat (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:14am

    Re: Re: Depressing

    Are you Bill from Accounting?

     

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    Trevor, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:18am

    And then they came for me

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

    -Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)

    Seems fitting...

     

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  45.  
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    DannyB (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:28am

    Re: Re:

    And if you don't deal with the 4 year old that was caught taking candy, what could possibly happen? Nothing. So similarly, with spy agencies, no harm would result from them not being answerable for being out of control.

    I mean geez, it's not like the CIA or NSA are going to suffer from 'affluenza'.

     

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    DannyB (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:29am

    Re: "Removed" documents?

    Remember when Hillary Clinton told Anonymous to 'return' the digital documents?

     

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  47.  
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    DannyB (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:35am

    Re: Frankenstein or Feinstein's monster ?

    She may be part of the 'they', but she is not an insider within the run-amok out of control intelligence community.

    She is merely part of the 'oversight'. Oversight that the intelligence community merely tolerates. Maybe their level of tolerance is declining, and this is but one crack that has been exposed by them getting caught.

    She is merely a manager, in a sense, of the spooks, but not one of them. Eventually when they come for her, she will not be considered by them to be one of them. Just an inconvenient nuisance.

    Probably less convenient now that she is calling them out instead of being their chief cheerleader.

    So why doesn't she have a much stronger response? Maybe because she knows what they have on her.

     

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  48.  
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    DannyB (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:41am

    Re: Re: .. The CIA is incapable of telling the truth.

    You make several points:
    1. If a CIA puke opens its mouth all that ever dribbles out is lies
    2. and stupidity.
    3. You can't work for the government and have a brain they are mutually exclusive.

    I disagree with 2 and 3. These people are very smart. Being smart is not mutually exclusive with being a liar, ignoring the law, subverting the constitution, or manipulating government or extorting government officials.

    On point 3, smart people may very much want to work for the government in order to have power. Some people want to have power publicly. These are the less smart ones. The real smart ones want to have the real power but have it in secret.

     

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  49.  
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    Rich Fiscus (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:42am

    He that lies down with dogs must rise up with fleas.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:43am

    National Security Letters

    It's highly probable that the CIA just filed an NSL on a staffer's name to make the search and seizure "legal". That would be the easiest way Feinstein got her hands on an "internal" document like that... Unless this truly was done under the table and there's a whistleblower in the CIA.

     

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  51.  
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    DannyB (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:47am

    Re: Hypocrite much?

    Wake up call for the Intelligence Oversight Committee? That they need to do something about the Intelligence Community run amok?

    No.

    A wake up call for the Intelligence Community. They need to do something about the Oversight Committee run amok and trying to impose any kind of limits or accountability.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:50am

    Re: National Security Letters

    Or FISA warrant.. It would also explain the slap on the wrist. The laws don't exclude members of congress, but I think someone unknown like a staffer's name would be more easier to get the rubber stamp approval on. The judges who are approving the warrants know who Dianne Feinstein is.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:51am

    Re: Re:

    > Excuse me, but there is a huge difference between illegal and wrong.

    Brennan never said it was illegal; that was TechDirt's spin. He said, "I am very confident that the appropriate authorities reviewing this matter will determine where wrongdoing, if any, occurred in either the executive branch or legislative branch."

    > If you are charged with oversight, then nothing should be off limits.

    What about waterboarding?

    > If the CIA is actively trying to thwart your investigation, then it's your job to go behind their backs.

    Maybe. There are still no details or evidence about how this alleged spying was carried out. Maybe the CIA keeps printer logs to make sure employees aren't printing classified material to take home. Does checking those logs count as spying?

    Deleting files, on the other hand, is pretty fishy, but still, this sounds like a he-said she-said argument between the Senate Intelligence Committee and the CIA. An easy fix would be to just make the report public.

     

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    SD (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 10:59am

    Re: And then they came for me

    Might be an inappropriate analogy since the "They" in this case also includes Feinstein. Also, Godwin's law.

     

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  55.  
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    PRMan, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 11:06am

    Re: Re: "Removed" documents?

    Reminds me of the pie episode on Kenan and Kel. The recipes are IN the computer.

     

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    PRMan, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 11:06am

    Re: Re: Re: "Removed" documents?

    Sorry, I meant iCarly.

     

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  57.  
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    Jake T, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 11:16am

    Hope

    I'd like to believe that there are some activists inside the intelligence community that do this stuff to important people for the sole reason of getting them pissed off and finally doing something about it. I fear i'm just going to be disappointed though

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 11:37am

    Re: Re: Really???

    The arch conservatives in Orange County always force the Republican party to nominate someone that makes Rush Limbaugh look like a socialist to run against her. That person always carries Orange County by a landslide and not much else.

    Feinstein's seat is 100% safe because no one with a chance to win will ever be able to run against her.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 11:38am

    It's all fun and games, until Sen. Spystein gets spied on.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    Traindriver, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 11:57am

    As my far Left leaning friend from California fondly refers to her as "That fascist cunt".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    FM Hilton, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 11:58am

    I thought we were friends!

    Oh, the betrayal!

    "I didn't tell you that you could spy on my people! Who do you think you're dealing with, anyway? Do you know who I am?"

    Serves her right. Now she'll see what we're all upset about-until they promise to stop spying on her and her staff..then it's back to business as usual.

    Hypocrisy and short attention spans work together.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    David, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 12:14pm

    Re: And then they came for me

    Well, if they even come for Feinstein, they must be through with pretty much everybody else.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    icon
    beltorak (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 12:25pm

    Re: Re: "Removed" documents?

    Thanks for that. The article seems to throw in "removed access" and "removed documents [from computers]" in the same paragraphs and even sentences sometimes, so it's hard to tell. But

    When the internal Panetta Review documents disappeared from the committee's computer system, this suggested once again that the CIA had removed documents already provided to the committee....


    I think that's clear that the documents were "physically" removed from a computer under the committee person's control.

    Does this mean that the CIA has (despite honest to god promises and cross my heart pinky swears) violated the CFAA?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    icon
    beltorak (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 12:27pm

    Re: Depressing

    no, she is still on her own side; our goals just happen to align in this one highly specific instance. until she reverses her stance of "spying on the peasants is fine" then we are most definitely not on the same side.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    John, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 3:28pm

    " No Harm" if they didn't know they were being spied

    As many defenders of the NSA spying have said, there is no harm if you didn't know the government was spying on you. The senator's staff who were spied upon have not suffered any harm if they didn't know at the time they were being spied upon.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Mar 11th, 2014 @ 4:19pm

    My wish came true.

    Also there are not enough animated gifs of Nelson going HA HA to cover this.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 11th, 2014 @ 7:01pm

    Oh, look, she finally found a spine

    Too bad she didn't find it when her constituents were targeted.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    DP, Mar 12th, 2014 @ 11:25am

    Hypocrisy

    Hypocrisy in the extreme, it seems to me. What's good for the goose.........

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    H.Bottinga, Mar 12th, 2014 @ 12:24pm

    Re: Re: Re: .. The CIA is incapable of telling the truth.

    I believe you confused smart with moral

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 13th, 2014 @ 3:40pm

    Re:

    Haven't you read a recent article here ?

    Not even American but I know the FBI is much more of a threat to you guys, more insidious than the NSA can be.

    I mean, before Snowden, NORMAL people knew the NSA did all this, but we were joked at as crazy. Normal people continue to see the FBI as a threat to the US as a due process implementing Just country even more than the NSA.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Joel, Jun 11th, 2014 @ 6:56am

    Re: So when

    What does Angela Merkel have to be riled about (and I don't think she really is - her anger was mostly for domestic consumption)? I don't care if the NSA spies on her. That's part of their job. The government should be spying on foreign heads of state - even and especially heads of state. Espionage is an excellent tool of diplomacy, as it is very useful to the diplomats to know what Merkel and those around her are saying privately about the things they say in public which interest us. They do it to us, we do it to them. It's how the world works and, done properly, helps prevent more serious problems. This is the mandate of the intel community. Spying on every American in the country is not part of that mandate (in addition to being illegal).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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