Chicago Sandwich Shop Emails Employees On Dec. 23rd To Say Merry Christmas And You're All Fired

from the open-faced-club-scroogewich dept

Let me let you in on a little secret: I don't really like Christmas. Through some combination of those horrible lights, that torture referred to as Christmas music, my disliking of receiving gifts and the proximity to the far superior holiday known as Thanksgiving, December 25th just never gets my trousers off, so to speak. It's led to some of my friends joking that I'm a modern-day Scrooge, which my bank account confirms I am, in fact, not. Besides, it turns out the Chicago area has a much better approximation for Scrooge than I in whoever owns Snarf's Sandwiches on the near North Side.

See, Snarf's thought it would be fun to wait until a couple of days before Christmas to let their employees at their sandwich shop know that, suprise, you're fired. Oh, and because assbaggery prefers its interactions impersonal, they informed their staff of this via a warm and fuzzy email.

1. Due to increased competition and losses, ownership has decided to consider remodeling and reconcepting the store at 600 West Chicago Ave.
2. The store is closing, effective tomorrow, December 23, 2013 for an unknown period of time for this remodeling and reconcepting.
3. All staff is terminated, effective Monday, December 23, 2013.
4. All staff may apply for unemployment, if eligible.
5. Return any keys and Company property to Will Ravert at 600 West Chicago Avenue on Monday, December 23, 2014 during normal business hours.
6. Payroll will be processed as usual this week and paid on Friday, December 27, 2013.
7. Keep an eye out for the grand opening of the new store.
8. Ownership appreciates your service and wish you well in your new endeavors.

Doug Besant Director of Operations
Bullet point number seven is by far my favorite. Nothing makes a Christmas firing more satisfying than telling the folks fired they should totally come check out the new sandwich shop staffed with all the folks that took their jobs once it reopens. Now, it's interesting that the firing comes just a few days after the staff joined other fast food workers in striking for higher wages, but Snarf's spokeswoman Jill Preston says that's just a happy coincidence.
“During the Christmas holiday we’re pretty slow,” she says. “The restaurant’s usually three quarters closed. This does happen to coincide, but this is something we’ve had planned for awhile.”
So Snarf's has been planning this for some time, huh? In that case, I guess it was just sadism and a hatred for the working stiff that led to management emailing everyone with one day's notice of their termination? At Christmas? Classy. And breaking up with your employees via email? Well that's just the dingle berry on top of the poop sundae for your workers.
“Three days before Christmas and not even a call,” [Employee] Rojas says. “It’s not fair that management and the corporation is treating [employees] this way.”
It looks like Scrooge is alive and well and running a small sandwich shop in Chicago. And somewhere, Tiny Tim just kicked the bucket out of sheer dispair. Happy holidays.



Reader Comments (rss)

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  1. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
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    out_of_the_blue, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 4:10pm

    Where you write "masochism", you surely meant "sadism".

    The exact opposite. Easy mistake to make when drunk.

    Anyhoo, kids, aren't you glad to compete in a "free market" where employers can terminate you at any time?

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 4:39pm

    Re: Where you write "masochism", you surely meant "sadism".

    If the free market allows me to fire you, then yes.

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 4:40pm

    5. Return any keys and Company property to Will Ravert at 600 West Chicago Avenue on Monday, December 23, 2014 during normal business hours.


    Okay, those who got terminated get to keep company property for an entire year after being fired! How riveting!

     

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  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 4:46pm

    The puzzler is strikers expecting their actions to be risk-free

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 4:51pm

    Heh, and people still think loyalty is alive and well.

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 4:53pm

    Re:

    Gawrsh, with an employer like this, I can't imagine why they would ever go on strike at all!

     

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  7.  
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    ShivaFang (profile), Dec 24th, 2013 @ 5:02pm

    I don't know what the labour laws are there - but if this happened in Alberta they would all be entitled to severance because of how short the notice was, depending on how long they've worked there (Starts at minimum 2 weeks if they've been their 90 days.) If you don't get 2 weeks notice, you get paid for 2 week anyway. Goes up to 3 weeks after 2 years working for the same employer, and then increases over time.

     

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  8.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Dec 24th, 2013 @ 5:23pm

    Re:

    Ah there's your problem, you're confusing an actual democratic country like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, most of the EU, Emerites, etc where Employment laws actually protect employees with the United States of America where money and corporate greed rule and the peasants can eat cake if they can even afford that.

     

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  9.  
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    Zos (profile), Dec 24th, 2013 @ 5:26pm

    look, sometimes i really wish you'd just go ahead and give us a live target. it's late, i'm tired, i just need a facebook page to go shit on, while i wait for the kids to go to sleep so we can play santa,

     

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  10.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 5:26pm

    sorry

    Wow and I thought my boss was an asshole.

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 5:37pm

    Christmas Disliker

    Let me let you in on a little secret: I don't really like Christmas.

    So, you will be posting tomorrow? I mean, you wouldn't really do a double standard and take the holiday you hate so much off, would you?

     

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  12.  
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    sorrykb (profile), Dec 24th, 2013 @ 5:50pm

    Re:

    The puzzler is strikers expecting their actions to be risk-free

    Or perhaps the strikers merely hoped that their employers wouldn't break the law by retaliating against them?

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 6:03pm

    A manager one can believe in.

    The employes stuck to him with their craze strike.

    He sticks it to them ASAP.

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 6:14pm

    this was the worst PR move ever for a company .. who's the idiot that thought hey we should fire these people right before Christmas ..might as well rename themselves Snafu

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 6:21pm

    In the restaurant business, this is more notice than most. Usually employees show up and find the door locked, windows covered and no final paychecks waiting.

     

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  16.  
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    William Jackson (profile), Dec 24th, 2013 @ 6:33pm

    Christmas canning

    In the late 80's Linoel Playworld waited till Christmas morning, or. The day after, to call the managers and tell they to not reopen the stores. There by full sales, no returns.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 6:51pm

    Chicago. Why do we keep it standing?

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 7:14pm

    Re: Re:

    As yes but the problem there is while the US doesn't have enough worker protections, amoung those you listed have the opposite problem and too much worker protection specifically with senior employees keeping jobs when they should be retiring and thus pushing younger employees out of the workforce.

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 7:38pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    oh we have that as well

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 24th, 2013 @ 7:56pm

    Re:

    Loyalty IS still alive and well. It just dwells hidden away in the much smaller Ma & Pa stores, where employees and employer still understand the idea of "You look out for me and scratch my back, and I'll look out for you and scratch yours."

    This is a day and age where Megacorporates are gutting employee benefits and pensions, insisting they do more work with less pay (And in cases like Internships, No Pay), and make it clear they have no problem seeing you as a commodity to be used up, until you're sucked dry like a juice box, then tossed aside while they reach for another...and then they wonder where Employee Loyalty went? It went out the window when it became clear Employer Loyalty was no longer going to be extended to your Loyal Employees. This is what the few Mom-and-Pop's that still function as such get, today.

    Henry Ford may not have been a friend of Unions, but his rationale was that if you paid your employees a living wage, so they could buy your products and keep making you money by being loyal employees, they wouldn't HAVE to organize against you to get that. Funny how so many today openly admire Ford, but eschew one of his central philosophies...

     

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  21.  
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    Just Sayin', Dec 24th, 2013 @ 11:13pm

    Sounds more like..

    This sounds more like a shop closing it's doors and closing the book before the end of the year, so they don't have to carry employees into the next year. Year end closings suck, but it's not entirely uncommon. Most do it a little further from the holidays, but it's not an off the chart move.

    Sucks for the employees, but at least those who have the hours can apply for unemployment or other benefits from the government while they look for new, minimum wage jobs to replace the minimum wage jobs they are losing.

    Hint to minimum wage workers: Your job isn't a career, stop trying to make it pay like one. Union action in fast food is humorous to say the least. While this shut down may or may not be related, take it as a warning shot, there isn't enough money in fast food franchises to pay you $20 an hour to make sandwiches and wash tables with the same filthy cloth all day.

     

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  22.  
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    scotts13 (profile), Dec 25th, 2013 @ 5:19am

    In an ideal world, people would remember asshat tricks like this, and just not do business with the company. But you know what? No one cares, no one remembers. The world is a blur of change; companies change ownership, names, policies, staff - you can't keep track of it. A couple of months after the "reconcepted" restaurant opens, no one (except the embittered former staff) will remember it was ever different.

     

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  23.  
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    Just Sayin', Dec 25th, 2013 @ 5:20am

    Re: Re:

    Henry Ford operated in what was a closed loop system, the only competition was the competition playing in the same field (and mostly the same city) as him. His concepts, and the long running generosity with the labor unions during fat times is one of the major reasons that Detroit is a bankrupt, near empty shell of itself. Once competition came in from other places, where a good paycheck didn't come with a golden pension plan, all the bennies, and a truck load of money to screw on a bumper, the North American can industry nearly collapsed.

    The problem here is people want to work what is a crap job (making subs) but want to make enough income to afford a full life, you know, a car, a nice place to live, a couple of nights out a week, and so on. Worse yet, some of these people think that a job sweeping up at the sub shop should pay enough to support a family. It's just not very logical, is it?

    The unions certainly were part of the industrial revolution and getting things to be fair for workers. They stopped being about fairness and more about greed and pulling the blanket to their side at every turn. So many industries were decimated by expensive union labor, hard to manage shop rules, minimum staffing, and all sorts of silly things. Just remember, it can cost you nearly $2000 for an electrical hookup at a Las Vegas convention, thanks to the fine union people who have negotiated each hookup as a separate job, minimum 4 hours, lunch, call time, 2 men minimum, and a supervisor - and oh yeah, double time if they do it any time other than middle of the day.

    Just think... subway can have their $50 foot long promotion!

     

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  24.  
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    Dark Helmet (profile), Dec 25th, 2013 @ 5:46am

    Re: Where you write "masochism", you surely meant "sadism".

    "Where you write "masochism", you surely meant "sadism".

    The exact opposite. Easy mistake to make when drunk."

    Totally correct. And, while it so happened this was a rare time when I was NOT drunk, thanks for being such a decent guy about it Blue. Merry Christmas to you and everyone else.

     

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  25.  
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    Dark Helmet (profile), Dec 25th, 2013 @ 5:48am

    Re: Christmas Disliker

    Well, I'm here commenting, so I guess not. I don't think the site posts stories on Christmas, however, given Mike's devout observance of Christian dogma....

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 25th, 2013 @ 8:16am

    I envision the invention of new food manufacturing equipment that will be designed in the near future when the minimum wage goes to $15 an hour.
    Start studying automated systems now to get in on the ground floor.
    So that you will be able to earn that wage.

     

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  27.  
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    Bengie, Dec 25th, 2013 @ 10:57am

    Re:

    Time for a web app that lets you shit-list certain owners and keep track of them.

    Don't like a current store, down mark it and it notes the current owners, investors, etc. Once you start down-voting over the period of say, 5+ years, patterns will probably start to emerge, like certain owners or investors behind every store that you don't like. The opposite will probably be true for up-voting.

    All we need now is easy access to this information, like via RESTful services, and some analytics to data mine this stuff.

     

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  28.  
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    FM Hilton, Dec 25th, 2013 @ 11:06am

    Otherwise, the sandwich shop might be screwed

    I think there is a little problem of advance warning and pay that is going to be a bit problematic for this outfit.

    You see, there are laws against firing people without due notice, and without adequate pay compensation.

    I bet the Labor Department lawyers would be interested in this, and I bet they'll get really interested when all of the workers show up at the Unemployment office at the same time, with the same reason.

    http://www.dol.gov/compliance/topics/plant-closings-layoffs.htm

    Although the WARN law states that it only applies to companies with more than 50 workers, I bet a good lawsuit will bring that outfit to their knees really fast.

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 25th, 2013 @ 2:27pm

    Re: Re: Christmas Disliker

    IT's not Christian, it's Bryani!

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 25th, 2013 @ 4:18pm

    In the Techdirtian Libertarian-Capitalist utopia, this is practically an ideal outcome! If people really disapprove, they won't patronize the new shop. God forbid this poor employer have any regulations governing their behavior when social pressure will undoubtedly result in the right outcome here.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 25th, 2013 @ 4:39pm

    Re: Where you write "masochism", you surely meant "sadism".

    "Anyhoo, kids, aren't you glad to compete in a "free market" where employers can terminate you at any time?"

    The unregulated "free market" that OotB and Republicans insist is the "American Way"?
    Oh, THAT "free market"!

     

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  32.  
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    Fitzwilly (profile), Dec 25th, 2013 @ 6:40pm

    Re:

    I'll remember, and I won't deal with this place (there's other fish in the sea anyway.)

     

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  33.  
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    Andrew D. Todd, Dec 25th, 2013 @ 8:46pm

    Small Business Exemption.

    The WARN act only applies to employers who have at least a hundred full time employees (or equivalent), and are laying off at least fifty employees at one location. I think you would probably find that the individual sandwich shop is set up as an individual corporation, owning a franchise (and the laid-off employees work for that, instead, rather than the parent company out in Colorado), but even if it isn't, the second clause would apply. I believe the sandwich shop only has about twenty employees. Most labor laws have small business exemptions-- that's how they got them through Congress, by buying off the vast majority of employers.

     

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  34.  
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    Ninja (profile), Dec 26th, 2013 @ 6:55am

    Re: Re: Christmas Disliker

    O please, I love Christmas (and hate the collective hysteria that comes with it) but you gotta love stories of Xmas "disasters" even if you are devout to the Christian dogma (I admit I'm not that devout even though I consider myself a Catholic).

     

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  35.  
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    Oolong Kaloofid, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 7:07am

    Got one too on the 23rd

    Merry Fargin X-mas - as I was escorted out of the conference room Monday afternoon. I hope you have a wonderful Holiday...

    What??? It couldn't wait another week or until after New Years? Noope - this sadistic person just loves to dig in the spurs...

    Oh well... Obama gonna make it mo better!

     

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  36.  
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    Dishevel, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 8:06am

    Re:

    Why do you think that people who make a sandwich at a shop get to shut down a person business to demand $15/hour get to expect loyalty?

    They have no loyalty, they have only demands.

     

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  37.  
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    ChrisB (profile), Dec 26th, 2013 @ 8:24am

    Re: Re:

    Bullsh!t. I know many people who work for Ma&Pa stores, and they are the worst offenders. They call you in for short shifts, don't pay you for meetings outside of work hours, don't pay you properly for stat holidays, etc. Then they claim they are unfamiliar with the law. Large corporations follow the law to the letter, because they know they'll get into trouble if they don't.

    Oh, and the living wage argument is utter nonsense.

     

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  38.  
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    ChrisB (profile), Dec 26th, 2013 @ 8:43am

    Re: sorry

    Did you strike for three days, without notice, and cause him to lose thousands of dollars?

     

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    akp (profile), Dec 26th, 2013 @ 9:22am

    Re:

    That's illegal. Labor laws (in the US) require an employer to provide final paychecks within 3 days.

    I worked part time at a small retail store, and the store did eventually close. The owners tried to skip out on that final paycheck for myself and the maybe two other employees.

    We went to the Labor Department, provided all the information, and the owners had their wages (in their new jobs) garnished until we were all paid.

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 9:29am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "Large corporations follow the law to the letter,"

    Haaaaahahahahahaaaaaa - oh my, that's a good one!



    " they know they'll get into trouble if they don't."

    Haaaaahahahahahaaaaaa - holy moly, the hits keep coming! Are you here all week?



    "the living wage argument is utter nonsense"

    Perhaps some sort of supporting rational is in order here, otherwise people might, you know, write you off as a crackpot regurgitating sound bites heard on wingnut radio.

    There are plenty of studies and plenty of conclusions, most concentrate on the impacts upon municipal budgets, business and unemployment while few address the working poor and the levels of taxation required to support them.

    Many libertarian/conservative types will state things like unemployment can be eliminated if minimum wage laws are repealed, this is ridiculous - obviously. But the point about living wage/benefits is even more obvious (by example) if you consider whether you would eat at a restaurant where the cook and wait staff are not given sick leave and often prepare food while ill. The restaurant owner apparently has little regard for not only the employees but also the customers. An additional item in this example is that health experts state (what should be an obvious fact) that malnutrition leads to more frequent illness. If you can not afford to eat well, you will get sick more often.

    So, yeah - utter nonsense indeed.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 9:38am

    Re: Re:

    People who make sandwiches force shop to close
    Film at eleven

    Please explain why anyone would/should have any loyalty for an employer who treats them like shit.

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 9:43am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "senior employees keeping jobs"

    What? -- those bastards!



    "thus pushing younger employees out of the workforce

    Another simple minded conservative factoid pushed upon a gullible populace - this is sad.

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 9:56am

    Re: Re: sorry

    Yes, I'm sure the sandwich shop owner was caught completely off guard by this most egregious employee rebellion.

    There were simply no indications what-so-ever elsewhere, in the past, that might possibly imply low wage workers might be getting upset about the shitty working conditions, lack of benefits and minimum wages. Contrast this with the way they were informed of the shop shutting down until they can be replaced. It is appalling how crass these former employees are- disgraceful!

    I'm sure that poor little sandwich shop owner will fill the open positions with replacement low wage earners who will be forced to work irregular part time hours with last minute schedule changes and without any benefits. It's good to be sandwich shop owner.

    Being that the sandwich shop owner admittedly planned this for some time, how exactly did these terrorists cause the loss of "thousands of dollars" ?

     

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  44.  
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    Alan Pugh, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 9:57am

    Re:

    Yeah, it's puzzling that they assumed their boss would follow the federal law known as the NLRA which guarantees no retaliation for the federally protected act of striking. Why did they mind-bogglingly believe their employer wouldn't break the law?

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 10:11am

    Re: Got one too on the 23rd

     

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  46.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 11:38am

    Re: Otherwise, the sandwich shop might be screwed

    How many sandwich shops do you know that have over 50 employees? Chicago is an at-will state, so if that is anything like my state (also at-will) these folks will be eligible for unemployment for termination without cause, and that's all the law allows for. It sucks, but it's legal.

     

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  47.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 12:37pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Oh, and the living wage argument is utter nonsense.

    Enjoy that spit with your burger at McDonalds because that's what you get for minimum wage.

     

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  48.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 12:40pm

    Re: Re:

    Because federal law says they do.

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 12:49pm

    This is what happens when you lose community. Since there is no sense of community anymore, there is no repercussions. This shop should find itself with no customers.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 12:54pm

    Re: Re: Otherwise, the sandwich shop might be screwed

    Actually, since most sandwich shops only allow workers to work 39 hours per week, they probably won't be eligible for anything.

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 1:22pm

    If I were a sandwich shop that paid employees a living wage with sick leave and other benefits, I would proudly display such info on site and online.

    Of course someone will claim said business will fail because of high overhead, totally ignoring that a majority of small business fails regardless of their employee compensation.

    Compare Wallmart to Costco, the Ayn Randians have no response to this.

     

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  52.  
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    Bill, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 1:30pm

    Sounds like a sitcom

    This almost sounds like an episode of Arrested Development.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 1:57pm

    Re: Re: sorry

    No worries - that strike isn't going to compare to the losses the "new & reinvented" shop gets due to this publicity.

    They likely did this deliberately to the employees. The Internets has this hard time with forgetting...

    Good luck new store! You're really going to fucking need it!

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 3:11pm

    Re: Re: Otherwise, the sandwich shop might be screwed

    I wasn't aware that Chicago is a state. Darn American education system...

     

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  55.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 7:05pm

    You know what? No one goes into business thinking "Oh boy! I'll be able to provide 10 unskilled morons who can't find anything better jobs!" They cost the employer money, they are not longer a worthwhile investment, so fuck them. They get what they deserve.

    You want a job you're valued at? Go make yourself more valuable than a highschool student looking for dope money, don't demand to be overpaid for doing monkey work.

     

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  56.  
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    gyffes, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 8:32pm

    Dear OOTB...

    why haven't you killed yourself, yet? It's all I asked for for Christmas..

     

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  57.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 8:38pm

    Re: Re:

    I mean we could just call the NSA I'm sure they have that info

     

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  58.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Dec 26th, 2013 @ 8:45pm

    Re:

    The Service Industry has been keeping this economy a float for quite sometime now .. my advice to you is make sure you never call a guy a monkey when he's serving your food , caring for your children in daycare or installing your internet .

     

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  59.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2013 @ 7:51am

    Re:

    This trope is a familiar one, it has been passed on by many a clueless wingnut over the years. Regurgitated vile and putrid, some things never change.

    Fact is, many minimum wage jobs are held by college graduates not highschool kids. The global economy has undercut their prior positions and discarded them like garbage. These are people who worked diligently to improve themselves via higher education and experience - and they are told they are lucky they have a mcjob.

    You may want to take a bit of your own medicine and educate yourself about reality rather than memorizing talking points.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2013 @ 8:56am

    Re: Re: What law was broken

    Ok Mr Layer? what law was broken?

    At-Will Employment in Illinois:

    Illinois is an "employment at will" state. As such, at-will employees can be terminated for any reason. The only exception is for employees who are covered by a contract or union agreement governing the terms of employment. Employees who are covered by an employment contract can usually only be terminated for the reasons set out in the contract. At-will employment also protects the employee's right to resign.

    Unlawful terminations violate legal protections, including discrimination or harassment, whistleblower protections, absence to serve on a jury, retaliation for asserting legal rights or violations of employment or union contracts. In such cases a fired employee could potentially file a wrongful termination claim.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Dec 27th, 2013 @ 9:48am

    Re:

    this was the worst PR move ever for a company

    Sounds stupid in so many ways. Either they were firing bad employees, in which case they shouldn't have been hired in the first place or fired earlier, or they were firing good employees, in which case they should have warned them ahead of time what was happening and offered them a position at the new restaurant. In neither case is firing them all at the last minute a good idea, even if you don't care about being an a-hole.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Dec 27th, 2013 @ 9:51am

    Re: Re: Otherwise, the sandwich shop might be screwed

    Chicago is an at-will state

    "Chicago's not a state, Joe."
    "Oh, and Pete Dakota is?"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 27th, 2013 @ 11:08am

    Re: Re: Re: What law was broken

    I am eagerly awaiting the response from Mr. Layer.

    Perhaps it will consist of a many faceted introspection of our much nuanced legal system where one is allowed to argue many things on many levels - which some refer to as layers.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    icon
    That One Guy (profile), Dec 28th, 2013 @ 2:10am

    Re: Re: Re: What law was broken

    How about this part:

    'Unlawful terminations violate legal protections, including discrimination or harassment, whistleblower protections, absence to serve on a jury, retaliation for asserting legal rights or violations of employment or union contracts. In such cases a fired employee could potentially file a wrongful termination claim.

    Now, it's entirely possibly the store was going to fire everyone anyway with the move(which would be stupid, but whatever), but to fire them all shortly after a strike, even if the mass firing honestly had nothing to do with it, still makes the move look like retaliation on the part of the store owners.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 28th, 2013 @ 5:09am

    Re: Re:

    Boo fucking hoo. Jobs are out there, if you can't find one, you don't deserve to live.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 28th, 2013 @ 8:02am

    Re:

    I'm sure this only happens in Chicago.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 28th, 2013 @ 8:09am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "Jobs are out there"

    All it takes is two jobs to be available in order to make this statement correct.

    Problem is, there are multitudes of jobless for every one opening.

    The rest of your post is disappointing. Surely you can come up with some talking points to toss around.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Dec 28th, 2013 @ 5:35pm

    Why is voting in Chicago like sex?
    It should be done early and often!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2013 @ 9:44am

    Re:

    Have there been any cases of voter fraud in Chicago lately?

    There certainly is rampant electoral fraud nationwide, but very cases of voter fraud.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2013 @ 11:10am

    Re: Re:

    Yes the rope of economics. Like any other piece of equipment in a business, when an employee's upkeep costs more than the profit it brings in, you replace the piece of equipment, or worthless employee.


    How many businesses have all of you economic geniuses run successfully?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2013 @ 11:13am

    Re: Re:

    people installing internet make the $15 an hour these fast food slinging monkeys are boo hooing about, there are tons of dish networks installer jobs posted on the local job board in my area, they pay 12-15 starting, if you're making minimum wage, you are a drain on society and are not worth saving because you are too stupid or lazy to better yourself.


    As for Child care, my wife doesn't have to work, and yet, I don't have a college degree, gee, it must not be hard to make it out there after all, if you're not a pussy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Dec 29th, 2013 @ 3:49pm

    Re: Re:

    I don't think you got it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2013 @ 5:08pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    "if you're making minimum wage, you are a drain on society and are not worth saving because you are too stupid or lazy"

    I'll bet you are a lot of fun at parties.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2013 @ 5:21pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    The term "economics" refers to the economy as a whole, you know - the entire nation and/or world.

    The term "business" refers to a subset of this economy.

    If one only looks at a subset, one does not see the whole.


    Now - are you refuting the claim that many low wage workers have actually worked hard to better themselves? If so, please provide references and not from Fox News.

    When off shoring the core of your business there are potentially many skilled employees left out in the cold, due to nothing of their own doing, and you are calling them worthless. If they knew this ahead of time, I'm sure they would have sought employment elsewhere, studied in a different field and/or moved. But wage slaves are disposable, amirite?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    Niall (profile), Dec 30th, 2013 @ 2:59am

    Re: Re:

    That'll be the alleged voter fraud that no-one has actually found, but in fact only exists in a) wingnut imaginations, and b) wingnut gerrymandered districts?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 5:09am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Yes. And the nuts think they can convince enough people to get their voter id bs.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 5:14am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I am, and I throw great ones, because I can afford to, because I didn't look at a highschooler's part time job as a permanent career choice.

    You fascists on this board amuse me, "let's pay everyone $1000 an hour, it doesn't matter that their job is menial and requires the brains to just keep breathing, money is free, evil business owners must be forced to suffer and be punished if they make too much."

    Like I said, how many successful businesses do you idiots run? How many employees do you have, what do you pay them, and how much profit per employee does the business generate?

    I'll bet you're real fun at parties with your hippie "the man is keeping us down" whining.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 5:22am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    No, I'm refuting that people are trapped in burger joint jobs, and they are the only career choice.

    I read one article that quoted a moron working at McDonald's for 10 years still making minimum wage, who was told by his boss "you shouldn't have joined that union". Let's see, you're making minimum wage for 10 years, yet you pay a "union" (Our McDonalds or some such) that doesn't have the power to negotiate your wages dues, rather than going somewhere else that has a 6 month performance review? You're making minimum fucking wage, retard, it isn't like a new job can pay you less!

    It's hilarious to me that the railroads are always hiring people for 30k while in training up to 50k after 6 months, they have group interviews for up to 150 people, and they hold them every few months, yet people can't find jobs and are stuck in fast food.

    You can go on the state employment service's website and find hundreds of 20k+ a year jobs listed, if you can't put together a resume to sweep floors at the high school, or walk around a warehouse after hours, then you are too stupid to live.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 5:30am

    Re:

    Yes, I've made a nice profit off of my Walmart Stock, I'm happy they pay low wages, a register monkey isn't worth $20 an hour.

    I guess you can figure out that many factors impact a small business failure, but the only factor affecting a big businesses success is what they pay their employees?

    hippies have no response to this.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 6:39am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Yes, because it makes total sense you have to show ID to buy cold medicine, but not to vote.

    IDs are hard to come by - another whining liberal bitch "fact"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 11:48am

    Re: Re:

    A recent study showed that a single Walmart Supercenter was costing taxpayers 900K per year. Walmart does not pay a livable wage and therefore their employees qualify for and get government assistance in the form of food stamps, medicaid, housing assistance, etc. Multiply this by the number of similar stores nationwide and you get a significant amount of money. As a taxpayer, I find this corporate welfare to be an insult considering the income taken by the Waltons.

    Oh, and I doubt a Walmart "register monkey" gets 20 per hour.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 11:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I doubt you know what the word fascist means, but do continue.

    The concept is probably beyond your comprehension, but providing sustenance to the poor is not equivalent to paying them $1K per hour. Your ridiculous exaggeration is a favorite talking point of the right wing and has no basis in fact.

    You seem to support corporate welfare, care to share why?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 12:10pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Side step the question, nice.

    You read an article about one person working a McJob. This one data point supports your bias and therefore proves your opinion about millions of other people - awesome.

    In your railroad story, how many positions were available? Just because they interview 150 people every few months does not mean there are multitudes of openings. There are many instances where only a few low wage openings were available but there were hundreds of applicants.

    "... you are too stupid to live."
    Is that your "final solution" Adolf ?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 12:15pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I made no such claim about cold medicine.

    The sole purpose of the voter id proposals is selective disenfranchisement. If you can not get a majority of the vote, then you simply stop your opponents from voting - brilliant!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:26pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    No a costco register monkey does though retard, reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:28pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don't, we should cut off all government aid to everyone and let people who can't survive starve. I'm not a fan of those losers getting assistance either.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Yep. I'm a big fan of darwinism. Let them learn to live, or die, doesn't matter to me.

    They have interviews with up to 150 people because they have to fill multiple positions. They pare down the numbers with a super hard test featuring such difficult questions as "do you break safety rules for speed?"

    I figured that would be pretty evident as I'm using it as an example instead of bringing one out about 2500 people applying for 150 jobs at walmart, but then, we've already determined your reading comprehension id weak.

    2500 people applying for 150 walmart jobs... Wow, what horrible jobs they must be.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The point being made was that both Costco and Walmart are profitable in the same market and yet Costco is able to pay a livable wage while Walmart does not - go figure.

    Yes, I must be retarded and your brilliant diagnosis capabilities should be rewarded.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Or, it could be to prove that democrats aren't voting for their 10 dead relatives.

    http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:37pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Again, I'm sure it's that one difference why Costco is profitable, but, there are hundreds of reasons why a small business closes.

    Still people choosing a highschoolers job as a career should just be allowed to expire.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:39pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    As for fascism, I have seen many of your smelly hippie ilk claim that any income over 250k should be %100 taxed, and then make people get free money every month for nothing, and put price control in place to beat inflation.

    Government control of markets and strict regulation of means of production and income sounds pretty fascist to me. You douches are all for enslaving people, but not allowing them to die for being useless. That'll work out.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "they have to fill multiple positions"

    Multiple positions - wow. What might that be exactly?
    Ten?

    Yup, I can not read - much less understand it. You are very observant indeed.

    Most jobs at Walmart are minimum wage.

    Darwinism? lol - I am surprised. I figured you for a creationist type.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I have seen many of your smelly hippie ilk

    This person is clearly not worth debating.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  94.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2013 @ 1:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ok, first of all - I have not shown support in this thread or elsewhere for the 100% above whatever concept. Progressive income taxation has been around for a long time and the percentages have bounced up and down. In the US it has never been nor will it ever be 100%, although it was in the low nineties for a few years after WWII. You do understand what a progressive tax is - right?

    Your comedic act is getting tiresome and you still have not provided an accurate description.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  95.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 5:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  96.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 8:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wow - a few isolated cases, what happened to the massive quantities of voter fraud claimed by those espousing these draconian voter id laws? Not found? Oh well, they just act like it's a really big problem anyway.

    Those violations of existing laws amount to what percentage of the vote in those areas? Enough to change the course of an election? Yeah, I didn't think so. I suppose one could come up with many ridiculous proposals to eliminate all sorts of crime and include an ulterior motive too. Muhahahahhaha.

    Obviously the problem is electoral fraud not voter fraud and the voter id laws do nothing to stop either. In factr, the argument can be made that these laws can be considered to be electoral fraud. They certainly are unconstitutional in that they disenfranchise eligible voters.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  97.  
    identicon
    JBDragon, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 11:47am

    Re: Re:

    What law would that be?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  98.  
    identicon
    JBDragon, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 11:54am

    Re: Re:

    There's no UNION! The place is closed. Not like he fired them all and just replaced them them all the next day! Asking for more pay on a job a monkey could do, well just dumb! Get a Education and then get a job that pays more money. Takes zero skill to make a sandwich!!! These people want more money, well that means prices would have to jump up. Customers would just go someplace else and the place closes as it can't keep it's door open. Still out of a job.

    Maybe it's time to start up your own business, Pay yourself whatever you want and hire others and pay them the kind of pay YOU wanted at that other job. Good luck even getting it started up.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  99.  
    identicon
    JBDragon, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 12:03pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If you don't like your job or pay, get a job someplace else and/or a Education to make you more valuable to deserve higher pay! Like other industries, if labor prices it's self out of the market, they will be replaced with Robots. have you heard of the ROBO BURGER!!! Yes, it's being worked on. Instead of 20 or so people working at a McDonald's, in the future it'll be 2-4 working. mainly just to clean the place. You'll place you're own order and the Robots will be doing most everything else.

    It takes ZERO skill to work at a fast food place. I know, I worked at Jack in the Box for a few years. A couple of them actually. The second one in a whole other state while I went to trade school. I worked full time and went to school full time!!! Has very little free time. I started out at the Minimum of $3.35 a hour and got up to $3.90 a hour. Not a lot of money, not a so called Living wage. It's a Zero skill job for Young people, Kids to do until they get a REAL JOB!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  100.  
    identicon
    JBDragon, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 12:09pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Why because they don't get paid $15 a hour? I was only getting $3.35 a hour working at Jack in the Box! How is getting Hired for whatever pay, $8.50 a hour for example and because he doesn't now want to pay you $15, he's treating you like shit? It's a zero skill job a monkey could do!!! We all wish we were making more money no matter what the current pay is. Make $20,000 a year, you wish you made $30,000 a year. Make a million, you wish you made 2 million. Whatever the range is.

    A Sandwich shop shouldn't be paying people $15 a hour. That's crazy. I'm not going to subway and paying $10 for a sub!!! Few people will and the place has to close it's door and everyone loses their job!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  101.  
    identicon
    JBDragon, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 12:17pm

    Re: Sounds more like..

    That's for sure and I worked at Jack in the Box when I was a kid at $3.35 a hour and finally worked up to $3.90 a hour after a couple years. Have these people not seen what happens when Labor costs get to high? They get replaced by ROBOTS!!! have they not seen Production lines filled with Robots? In China, Labor is cheap, lots of people working in the production lines, but as labor prices are going up, they are starting to be replaced by Robots!!!

    Have these people not heard of the ROBOBURGER? Look it up on Youtube. It's pretty crude. But this stuff is all Standardized. You can build a new restaurant and have it mostly filled with Robots doing most everything other then cleaning the place.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  102.  
    identicon
    JBDragon, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 12:29pm

    Re:

    Already being worked on. Go to Youtube and check out ROBOBURGER!!! That's the future. These people thinking a zero skill job should be paid $15 a hour, HAHAHAHA. Either the place will have to bring in Robots to keep the doors open, or close up business. it's that simple. I had this figured out when I was a kid making $3.35 a hour at Jack in the Box! It's not a so called Living wage job. That's why it's suppose to be temporary!!!

    If you don't like your pay, do something about it!!! Get a Education where you can make more money because it's a skilled Job that no monkey could ever do. Start up your own business and see how things are in the real world!!! Or try getting a job someplace else with better pay! Maybe a job you can start out at low pay, but learn on the job and gain the skills needed over time and work up to better and better pay, like a Apprenticeship type program!!! Plumbers, electricians, etc... Pay SUCKS but you're learning on the job from a expert and in however many years, you can be on your own making a lot more money or starting up your own small business in that field and working up to even better pay. Depending on how good your skill is. The great thing is you don't have a huge collage dept to pay back!!! You now have skills worth real money in the end!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  103.  
    identicon
    JBDragon, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 12:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You need ID for all the free Government handouts, yet for some reason when it comes to Voting, the ID becomes a issue?!?!?! I mean really??? Even when it's offered for FREE it's still a issue. How you could possibly have no ID in this day and age?!?!?! You have to have some kind of ID for all the handouts. I wonder why the Democrats are so into Illegals getting this and that, and no ID for Voting, oh wait, now the picture is becoming more clear.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  104.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 12:57pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You did not answer the question.

    Also, many people avoid restaurants where management fires employees for missing work due to illness. Do you really want some sick person preparing your meal?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  105.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 1:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Yeah, and everyone but you is retarded

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  106.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 31st, 2013 @ 1:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Government handouts" are not free



    "for some reason when it comes to Voting, the ID becomes a issue?!?!?!"

    I am not the one making it an issue



    "How you could possibly have no ID in this day and age?!?!?!"

    Way to miss the point completely. Good job. Not that I expected anything else.



    "I wonder why the Democrats are so into Illegals"

    I have read about a few GOP types who like their illegal servants.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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