Amazon Wants To Sell Fan Fiction With It, Originator And FanFic Author All Sharing Profits

from the interesting-move dept

Here's an interesting one. Amazon is getting some buzz today for launching Kindle Worlds, a setup by which authors of fan fiction can effectively profit from their works without fear of legal repercussions. Obviously, there's a ton of fan fiction out there, and while most copyright holders don't mind it (with a few notable exceptions) as long as nothing is being sold, Amazon seems to be trying to take it to the next level. They're basically licensing the copyrights from certain popular works (at this point, mostly TV shows, it appears), such that fans can write their own fanfic, have it sold via Amazon (of course) and the profits get split up. For works over 10,000 words, the fanfic author gets a 35% cut. For shorter works, it's 20%.

There may be some concerns about this. The "ownership" of the new work belongs to Amazon, as you're basically signing a publishing agreement with Amazon, who then controls the work. Given the situation, that might not be that much of an issue for most fanfiction authors, but some may be concerned (for example, imagine if this had happened with 50 Shades of Grey, which originated as Twilight fanfic, before becoming a monstrosity of its own). Also, there's no guarantee that Amazon will agree to sell the work, but it claims it will publish "as many as possible." It basically sounds like they reserve the right to reject ridiculously bad works.

In some ways, though in very different circumstances, this reminds me of some of the cooler aspects of YouTube's ContentID program, in that it sets up a way for people to reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law, but which most people realize isn't what copyright law should be destroying. Once again, if you just make it so that innovation can occur, people quite frequently figure out business models that build on what maximalists consider "piracy" if they give it time and let the business models shake out.


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  1.  
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    Miles, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:03am

    Facebook

    Why aren't you posting on facebook anymore??? I'm missing everything! :(

     

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    horse with no name, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:10am

    Odd

    Once again, if you just make it so that innovation can occur, people quite frequently figure out business models that build on what maximalists consider "piracy" if they give it time and let the business models shake out.

    Not a lot of innovation here. Amazon is paying for the rights to use the characters, and then turning around and taking ownership of the resulting works. Essentially, they are just middle-manning to clear rights to use the characters, at an insanely high cost to the writer.

    Yet another success story where a modern company becomes a middleman. Perhaps they are a facilitator for the moment, but that will likely turn to greed if one of the works gets developed into an actual TV episode or movie.

     

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    Zakida Paul (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:13am

    "For works over 10,000 words, the fanfic author gets a 35% cut. For shorter works, it's 20%. *snip* The "ownership" of the new work belongs to Amazon, as you're basically signing a publishing agreement with Amazon, who then controls the work."

    So, Amazon are going from distributor to gatekeeper with the same tricks of not giving the creator of the work the majority of profits from sales while keeping control of the work for themselves?

    How is this different to traditional publishers?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:24am

    "Amazon Wants To Sell Fan Fiction With It, Originator And FanFic Author All Sharing Profits"

    Is it just me, or was that title unnecessarily hard to parse?

    Might just be my bad English, though (not my first language).

     

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    Sneeje (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:24am

    Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    I gotta ask, is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction? I'm not really interested in fan-fiction myself, so maybe I just don't have the right perspective.

    But my sense is that significant part of what makes it fun is the lack or restrictions and the ability to share it widely. So, I personally just don't see how there would be any market for paid-for fan-fiction, regardless of price. And if the originator thinks this will give them more control, they should think again. This isn't going to stop fans from writing fan-fiction and sharing it.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:24am

    Re:

    I think the difference is little: however, the fact that it allows people to self-publish (or attempt to, at any rate) is interesting.

    It still worries me that it's very much a gatekeeper move.

     

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    PaulT (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:28am

    Re: Odd

    "Not a lot of innovation here."

    Well, if you ignore all the innovation, of course there's none. Name one other service doing this for authors at the moment.

    "Yet another success story where a modern company becomes a middleman."

    As opposed to who? Publishers? Retailers? Half the people you try to defend are also middlemen. Being a middleman is essentially what Amazon do - and they're successful because they're very good at it.

    "will likely turn to greed if one of the works gets developed into an actual TV episode or movie"

    Because no book is ever successful otherwise.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:33am

    Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    depends on the original work- the Star Wars EU isn't much more than fanfiction where the author has said that it actually happened in the canonical universe.

    as for if there would be a market, there might actually be one- some fanfiction is arguably just as good as original works, with a couple arguably reaching the level of basically being original works. would I pay for fanfiction? if it was by an author I knew was sufficiently good. (however, there is a LOT of fanfiction that wouldn't be worth it.)

     

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    PaulT (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:35am

    Re:

    Well, you do have a clear choice ultimately. Amazon still allow you to self publish through them without demanding exclusivity or ownership. However, they can't allow you to do this with straight up fan fiction due to legal liability. So, you can accept their terms and publish fan fiction with the relevant restrictions in return for the name recognition and legal status that this gives you. Or, you can do a 50 Shades and rewrite your story to remove the references to copyrighted characters and publish freely with rights retained. This is just one avenue that Amazon are offering, not an "accept these terms or don't get published" that the legacy guys offered.

    I'd also say that this setup could be due to licensing rather than a deliberate move by Amazon. That is, rather than allow a blanket licence for every author, the rights holders are only willing to grant permission to a book solely owned and published by Amazon Publishing.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:35am

    Been done before.

    Eric Flint pioneered this idea.

     

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    That One Guy (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:37am

    Just like a book deal, but worse

    So a fanfic writer basically sells away the rights to their creation for a max of a 35% cut of the profits, doesn't get any advance or anything like that, and amazon gets both copyright and the lion's share of the profits... sounds like a steal alright, but most certainly not in favor of the writer.

    Moreover, and perhaps more worrisome, I can easily see the 'the only fair use is paid use' lot using this to attack derivative works where the character's/settings aren't licensed, by insisting that now a system is in place where you can pay to use the characters and settings in a derivative work, that means you have to do so, otherwise you're 'stealing from the original writer(s)'.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:47am

    Re: Odd

    I actually agree here.

    Amazon isn't doing anyone any favours, save, perhaps, minimizing the risk of a lawsuit.

    Amazon's "service" would be redundant if there were clear exceptions for derivative works in copyright.

    Alas, there aren't, so we must continue to pretend that art and science must be created in a vacuum to be of any value.

     

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    PaulT (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:49am

    Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    It will be interesting to see how this goes, but I'd say it's down to quality. The terms seem to indicate that the stories will need to adhere to certain rules, and as they're published by Amazon they will possibly have some form of editorial oversight.

    So, rather than "pure" fan fiction, you'll get something that's more like a standard authorised novel. That is, you'll probably get something approaching a novel based on the universe you'd buy in the shops anyway, with the advantage of ideas coming from random authors rather than pre-approved commissioned authors who may or may not have any passion for the original material. It may also be more likely for a current show to take the direction suggested by fan fiction if it's officially licensed and published - giving fans a way to direct the show in the way they prefer.

    So, if the quality of the paid work is higher, or even leads to new material in the canonical world of the original then it's definitely better than the free stuff. If not, well, there's nothing that can stop true fans from writing and sharing what they wish.

     

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    PaulT (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:57am

    Re: Just like a book deal, but worse

    "sounds like a steal alright, but most certainly not in favor of the writer."

    Not really. It's better than the offer they currently have (zero income, and if you try you'll probably be shut down and/or sued). Writers always have the option of altering the story to remove references to other works if they wish to publish without this protection for higher cuts. True, the cut could be higher, but we don't know how much of that 65% is being demanded by the copyright holders or how much behind the scenes work is actually involved to guarantee compliance (all work done on the author's behalf for no up front charge).

    I agree with your second point, but what's the alternative, really? Without this move, fan fic languishes in an area where the author can't profit, and any attempt to shut down freebies is bound to backfire on the copyright holders in some way.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:12am

    Re: Odd

    Of course, if Amazon gains the rights to the characters, sure they can publish fanfics...

    And then they can have their own team of authors write anything they want utilizing those characters. They could theoretically spin the entire control of that specific universe.

    They get the rights to use X-Files characters. They publish fanfics. Two months later they drop out 50 full sized X-Files novels. Profit (provided X-Files are still relevant, but replace with, uhhh, anything else).

     

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    Paul Watson (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:14am

    Another monopoly?

    Presumably if Amazon become the licence holder for written works derived from certain TV shows, then they'll spend most of their time taking legal action against anyone who publishes fan fiction for free online based on those same TV shows (i.e. if you don't publish it through Amazon - the copyright holder - then you'll be sued).

    While existing copyright holders "don't mind [free fan fiction] (with a few notable exceptions) as long as nothing is being sold" I suspect Amazon will.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:15am

    Re: Odd

    "Amazon is paying for the rights to use the characters, and then turning around and taking ownership of the resulting works. Essentially, they are just middle-manning to clear rights to use the characters, at an insanely high cost to the writer."

    As usual, ass with no brain, you're wrong.
    The writers are writing the stories simnply for the love of the series/movie, without thought of profit (as hard as it is for a copyright maximalist like you to believe).
    Amazon has simply come up with a way for the studios and writers to make money!

    "Perhaps they are a facilitator for the moment, but that will likely turn to greed if one of the works gets developed into an actual TV episode or movie."

    The licensors (tv/movie studios) control the rights, so even if one of these fanfic stories prove good enough to adapt into an episode or film, the studio, not Amazon makes the money on it.
    Amazon only makes money on copies of the stories sold through it.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:20am

    Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    "I gotta ask, is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction? I'm not really interested in fan-fiction myself, so maybe I just don't have the right perspective."

    Quite frankly, a good 3/4 of Star Trek novels are just fanfic with the "naughty bits" expunged.
    Yet they sell.

    (Star Wars has a better track record of using profesional authors and maintaining continuity.)

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:24am

    Re: Odd

     

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    That One Guy (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:24am

    Re: Re: Just like a book deal, but worse

    I suppose the bit that makes the 35% cut look particularly bad to me is the transfer of the copyright over the story.

    If it was instead a license or something similar, where Amazon was legally allowed to act as seller, but the author still retained all other rights over the story, I wouldn't consider that too bad of a deal, it's just as-is writers would basically be handing over the rights to their works for nothing more than the potential of profit in the future.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:25am

    Re: Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    "depends on the original work- the Star Wars EU isn't much more than fanfiction where the author has said that it actually happened in the canonical universe."

    Star Wars (unlike Star Trek) kept a tighter control on continuity and used already-published authors.
    Trek (primarily Pocket Books) used fanfic writers and stated that, except for adaptations of movies & TV episodes, the stories weren't canonical.
    Pity since some authors, like comics scribe Peter David, did first-rate material that deserves to be part of the overall Trek Universes (Yes, it's plural).

     

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    horse with no name, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:44am

    Re: Re: Odd

    The writers are writing the stories simnply for the love of the series/movie, without thought of profit

    You don't think that profit motivation will change all that? All of a sudden you will have writers not really interested in the series will be cuing up to churn out material with the hope of a marginal profit.

    Money changes everything.

    The licensors (tv/movie studios) control the rights, so even if one of these fanfic stories prove good enough to adapt into an episode or film, the studio, not Amazon makes the money on it.

    Incorrect. Amazon would hold the rights to the story, and they could then license it to the studio for development. There is nothing that says Amazon would be the ones making movies or whatnot. Why think so narrowly?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:54am

    Re:

    How is this different to traditional publishers?

    It's not one bit different. But because it's a tech company Masnick thinks it's cool.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:00am

    Re: Just like a book deal, but worse

    Moreover, and perhaps more worrisome, I can easily see the 'the only fair use is paid use' lot using this to attack derivative works where the character's/settings aren't licensed, by insisting that now a system is in place where you can pay to use the characters and settings in a derivative work, that means you have to do so, otherwise you're 'stealing from the original writer(s)'.

    I think you are off with your concern of 'the only fair use is paid use'. But, I think where people seek to monetize derivative works (in any manner); that this will be cited.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:00am

    Re: Re: Re: Odd

    "The licensors (tv/movie studios) control the rights, so even if one of these fanfic stories prove good enough to adapt into an episode or film, the studio, not Amazon makes the money on it."

    "Incorrect. Amazon would hold the rights to the story, and they could then license it to the studio for development. There is nothing that says Amazon would be the ones making movies or whatnot. Why think so narrowly?"

    Because I've worked on licensed products since 1981?
    Written, illustrated, and occasionaly edited for several comic book companies on licensed series (including Star Trek, X-Files, Jurassic Park, and GhostBusters), the terms are usually that the publisher has to have approval from the licensor on story (and art) content (I could tell you horror stories on that score) and that the licensor has control over reprinting and ancillary rights (including use in other media)
    That's why, for example, Dark Horse was able to reprint Marvel's Star Wars comics, since LucasFilm, not Marvel, controlled the rights.
    Theoretically, the licensors could, once the contract with Amazon expires, move the project to Barnes & Noble.
    Either way, the licensor controls the re-use rights.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:03am

    Re: Another monopoly?

    That makes perfect sense. Once Amazon is spending money to develop this business, they will protect it. Amazon will probably lead the charge when the issue of licensing characters/settings of derivative works goes to court or a law is proposed.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:06am

    Re: Re:

    "It's not one bit different. But because it's a tech company Masnick thinks it's cool."

    No, boy.
    Because it's a case of a copyright owner figuring out a way for both it and the fans (who wouldn't make a cent otherwise) to monitize their work, Masnick thinks it's cool.
    And so do I.

     

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    PaulT (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:10am

    Re: Re: Re: Just like a book deal, but worse

    I agree. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the exclusivity was a condition of the licences being granted in the first place (i.e. perhaps the licence was only granted to books exclusively published by Amazon). We can only guess as to the behind the scenes wrangling that was needed to even get this far.

    However, as I've said elsewhere here, the author ultimately has the choice as to whether to accept this deal, upload for free anywhere or to publish a version with the copyrighted references removed, with the many other methods available. While there's still a choice, I don't see why this is too much of a problem. If an author doesn't like the deal, they don't have to take it - they just won't be able to legally monetise the work they based on copyrighted material while it still references that material.

     

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    horse with no name, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Odd

    the licensor controls the re-use rights.

    All that experience, and no clue!

    You don't know the content of the license that Amazon is obtaining. You also still miss the point that Amazon would hold the rights to these stories, which they could then sell to the licensor to be developed into movies or other shows, etc.

    You seem to be thinking that Amazon's license would be very limited in scope, similar to someone making toys. I doubt that would be the case, because it would keep them from hitting the financial jackpot. This process looks more like crowdsourcing future TV scripts to me.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:20am

    "reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law"

    OOOH, what a GREAT euphemism for "steal"! Props where due: ALL HAIL PIRATE MIKE!

    Anyhoo, this is LICENSING: "They're basically licensing the copyrights from certain popular works". -- SO LICENSING WORKS, OKAY? Due props plus some cash thrown their way are about all most creators ask.

    Just stick to traditional copyright, kids: it's proven for more than a hundred years to work. -- And on the other side, DON'T STEAL, that's been proven wrong for millenia.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:26am

    Re: "reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law"

    I'm sorry to do this, but someone has to:

    Slavery was proven to work for more than two thousand years.

    Should we stick to that?

     

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    out_of_the_blue, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:32am

    Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    NO, not in my guesstimate. You can't really give it away for free. Nearly all is horribly dull meandering dreck that appeals only to writer, though a few others of similar mania will give timid approval in their on-line Mutual Admiration Societies. But in the wider realm, it's simply lame, derivative, over-blown, over-contrived, self-aggrandizing, unrealistic crap such as Timothy Geigner, aka Dark Helmet, strains to write. -- Besides that, if taken from television, most of the appeal is in "the visuals", simply doesn't work as text. And stilted dialogue.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:32am

    Re: Re: Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    my point was that it has happened that fanfic has been published with some success in the past, though I appreciate the correction.

     

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    That One Guy (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:37am

    Re: Re: Just like a book deal, but worse

    I wish I was actually, I've seen several comments and even an article on this site where that idea is brought up, that unless money is changing hands fair use doesn't exist.

    The fact that fair use doesn't even remotely require payment, and in fact is directly contradictory of the idea behind fair use, is apparently beyond those that make that argument, but that doesn't stop them from doing so.

    Probably the most obvious claim of 'no fair use that isn't paid use':
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130110/01515121624/lionsgate-censors-remix-video-that-copy right-office-itself-used-as-example-fair-use.shtml#comments

     

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    dennis deems (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:44am

    Re:

    It's not just you. The title is very awkward.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:50am

    Re: Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    it's simply lame, derivative, over-blown, over-contrived, self-aggrandizing, unrealistic crap such as Timothy Geigner, aka Dark Helmet, strains to write

    That is uncalled for. I mean, Tim is to literature what Marcus Carab is to music.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:56am

    I'm sorry to do this, but someone has to:

    Slavery was proven to work for more than two thousand years.

    Should we stick to that?


    We do, almost. Look at the conditions of those workers who make the clothes you wear, your electronics and most of the products you have in your home. In many cases, particularly in the Third World- their lives are no better than that of the slaves of Colonial America.

     

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    Ruth Carter, May 23rd, 2013 @ 7:01am

    Potential Game Changer

    This could be game changer for copyright holders who license their work to Amazon. I wonder what this will do to organizations like Disney who are usually very protective of their copyrights and people like J.K. Rowling who don't oppose fan fiction so long as it's not erotic fiction. I wonder if they'll change their stances when they see there's money to be made from it.

     

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    DanZee (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 7:07am

    35% Commission

    Some people have noted the 35% cut (20% cut under 10,000 words) seems unfair. I'm guessing Amazon is probably kicking back a third to the copyright holder as well. But keep in mind writers who are published by major publishing companies sign deals where they get as little as $1 per hardcover sale and 25 cents per paperback sale, after all other expenses and advances are paid. That's about a 5% commission, so it's important to put things into perspective.

    As people have criticized, I agree that I don't like the fact that Amazon is taking over ownership of the work, but in the old days publishers use to file the copyright on published works and tie up novels for 28 years. It's not too much different.

     

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    The Real Michael, May 23rd, 2013 @ 7:32am

    Re:

    It's not. This move would essentially transofrm every fanfic into a 'work for hire' owned by Amazon. It's essentially a means of outsourcing independent writers to come up with ideas so that Amazon can then turn around and make a mint in the event that a studio wants to license a work.

    Baaaaaad idea.

     

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    Seegras (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 7:38am

    Re: "reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law"

    Actually, no. And no again.

    Fan Fiction is NOT, and CAN NOT be copyright infringement, because there is nothing copied at all.

    US: "102 (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work."

    Copyright is about the exact form, and not about an "idea" or a "concept".

    The use of characters and settings developed by others MIGHT constitute trademark infringement (if named the same), but most literary characters are not even trademarked.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 7:49am

    Re: Re: "reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law"

    Why don't you go and write a fanfic piece about some characters and settings copyrighted by Disney and let us know how it works out for you?

     

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    Mike Masnick (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 8:31am

    Re: Re: "reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law"

    Fan Fiction is NOT, and CAN NOT be copyright infringement, because there is nothing copied at all.

    US: "102 (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work."

    Copyright is about the exact form, and not about an "idea" or a "concept".


    I agree with you in theory, but the courts have generally ruled otherwise. See: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=8887709316369349826&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1& amp;oi=scholarr

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 8:51am

    Re: Re: Re: "reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law"

    Figures. This bullshit comes from Peter Keel of the Pirate Party. Obviously, he's confused wishful thinking with fact.

     

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  45.  
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    Lord_Unseen, May 23rd, 2013 @ 9:06am

    Re: Re: Re: "reasonably monetize what might be considered infringement under the law"

    You know that doesn't really contradict his claims, right? It could be considered trademark infringement if the character in question is trademarked. Sadly, nearly all of Disney's characters are trademarked.

     

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  46.  
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    Starke (profile), May 23rd, 2013 @ 12:00pm

    Re: 35% Commission

    Yeah, initially I'd assumed Amazon's payout would be a lot more stingy.

    I'm guessing, because they aren't printing anything, and won't be paying to edit the material, their overhead will be low enough, not to worry about the costs.

     

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  47.  
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    Jennifer, May 23rd, 2013 @ 3:38pm

    Innovation? Try Predation!

    I'd love to monetize my fanfics, but the deal Amazon is offering is nothing short of predacious.

    I do 100% of the work, and reap only 20 - 35% of the profits? That's insanity. Do Amazon and the franchise owners really deserve 65 - 80% of my profits just for sitting back in their comfortable chairs puffing cigars made out of hundred dollar bills?

    The Constitution is supposed to promote the creation of art. So that's why they had to some forms of art illegal, to promote art. Yeaaaaah.

    Nice try, Amazon--you're not getting a cent of my money. I'll wait till the Pirate Party gets copyright terms down to 5 years, then sell my own work for 100% of the profits. C ya!

     

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  48.  
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    Silver, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:22pm

    As a fan fiction author, I think this sounds pretty interesting. It would be nice to make even a little bit of money off my work, in compensation for the hours and hours I put into writing it. I don't ever plan on being a professional author, so it's not like I was planning to make money off my stories anyway.

    I'm surprised Amazon is against erotica fan fiction though. Everyone knows that sex sells, and the smut stories usually rank among the most popular in fan fiction.

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 4:35pm

    Re: Innovation? Try Predation!

    Thanks for the laugh Jennifer. Smoking cigars MADE out of hundred dollar bills??? Don't you mean lighting them with hundreds?

    Anyway, on to the funny part. You think the Pirate Party is going to get copyright lowered to five years? In your lifetime? The Pirate Party is an international joke. A feckless bunch of malcontents, wannabe anarchists and the mentally ill. They're so pitiful in the US that the national party had to be taken over by the Florida state party which says a lot given they only consist of a handful of crackpots and losers. I predict it won't be long before you are begging Amazon to publish your drivel. Just remember 35% of zero is still zero.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 5:44pm

    Re: Re: Innovation? Try Predation!

    Awww, you think I write "drivel"? ^^ Actually, I'm self employed as a writer of nonfanfics. The fanfics would sell too, if weren't for copyright law.

    But go ahead, keep laughing. The Pirate Party is merely the tip of a much bigger movement, as you'll figure out eventually. ;)

    (And yes, I did mean cigars made out of hundred dollar bills. The cigars are lit with smoldering hopes of dreams of the gullible young writers who gave up all their rights for a pittance.)

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:23pm

    Re:

    I agree with you on being surprised about the rejection of erotica: the most popular fanfic has always traditionally been erotica--specifically slash erotica. So I'm guessing this may not be quite the popular thing they imagine it will be. But there are any number of works that are pretty awesome and ready-for-TV just as they are, and I can think of plenty of fics that can have the erotic scenes neatly edited out as they do not advance the plot and are there for fan-service.

    Do you post your fic on Archiveofourown.org? I both post & read most of my fanfic there for many reasons, but a big one is that there's a drop-down menu on "Download" where you can choose mobi, epub, pdf, or html to download to your ebook rather than reading the fic on the screen. My first thought on discovering the drop-down was, "I'll never have to pay for an overpriced zine again!", and I immediately gave AO3 a nice donation.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 6:47pm

    Re: Is there really a market for paid-for fan fiction?

    Until the invention of the internet, fans paid for fanfic. The zine publisher wasn't supposed to make a profit, in fact if she made a profit, it was expected that she'd roll it over into the next fanfic she published to lower the cost.

    That said: when printing costs took off in the mid-80s, a fan could find herself paying $30, $40, $50 for a zine with full-color covers, fancy binding, and full-color illustrations. Beauty and the Beast fandom (the TV show with Ron Perlman & Linda Hamilton) was the first to see these very opulent, romantic, and expensive zines published: you'd see full-color zines with fancy raised printing, metallic overlay printing, even a lace-and-crystal embellished zine was sold.

    I put out an X-Files zine with a nice B&W cover on heavy stock, acid-free pages, with perfect binding--I charged $20, did not make a profit, and I had to do four printings to supply demand. It wasn't that big of a zine, only about 200 pages. It was considered a well-priced zine at the time, so people were spending more for other zines.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 10:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Odd

    "All that experience, and no clue!"

    All that ignorance, and no clue, boy.

    "You seem to be thinking that Amazon's license would be very limited in scope..."

    Because movie/tv licensors have been doing this for decades, and have the system down pat.

    "I doubt that would be the case, because it would keep them (Amazon) from hitting the financial jackpot."

    And your first-hand knowledge of the process is...what, exactly?

    "This process looks more like crowdsourcing future TV scripts to me."

    All the more reason for the licensors to maintain control, son.

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 23rd, 2013 @ 11:10pm

    I am a fan of fanfiction and a writer, so i have a closer perspective on this subject than most of you seem to have, so here is my opinion.

    As a writer of fanfiction, i enjoy writing just as much, if not more, than the original authors. Writing stories for people is fun and to receive praise or even criticism from reviews is whats worthwhile. The only thing that would make it better is if you could make money from it. Even at 35%, it is 35% more than we would get anyways, so i find this idea amazing.

     

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  55.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 24th, 2013 @ 6:50am

    Re: Re: Re: Innovation? Try Predation!

    Wow! A self-employed writer of non fanfic? So you're basically unemployed.

    You keep waiting for the Pirate Party or "the movement" to come to your rescue. Long before that happens I imagine you'll be living under an overpass eating dog food out of a can.

     

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  56.  
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    PaulT (profile), May 24th, 2013 @ 7:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Innovation? Try Predation!

    "A self-employed writer of non fanfic?"

    a.k.a. a writer. She's saying that she writes for a living, but can't monetise one area of her writing due to copyright.

    It's amazing that your zealous defence of the broken copyright system involves attacking people you claim to be protecting. You're actually attacking writers (and - assuming you're the same AC as other similar threads - games developers, musicians and filmmakers among others) who disagree with your obsession with infinite copyright. You're attacking content creators because they don't agree with the way that copyright has been twisted beyond recognition to support the income of those who won't adapt.

    Incredible, but at least nobody's going to confuse you with someone with intellectual honesty and a fact-based argument.

     

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  57.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 24th, 2013 @ 9:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Innovation? Try Predation!

    You missed the point Einstein. I'm suggesting that she's a writer like Marcus Carab is a singer.

     

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  58.  
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    PaulT (profile), May 25th, 2013 @ 4:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Innovation? Try Predation!

    Marcus? the guy who's said he makes a few tunes as a hobby and has no desire to turn professional, yet you attack his work as if that invalidates any argument he has? Well, at least that makes him more transparent than you. I just think it's funny that in trying to attack people here who are supposedly pirates (an outright lie, and you know it), you're willing to attack anyone who even thinks of creating content of their own. I wonder why? Is it because your own output failed? Judging by your attitude here, miserably.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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