NYPD Sergeant Says 'Guilty Until Proven Innocent' Is Just The Price We Pay For A 'Free Society'

from the nothing's-more-'secure'-than-a-jail-cell dept

We've been dealing with the New York police department lately, thanks to the mayor and the police chief using the recent Boston bombing as an excuse to increase surveillance efforts and enact other policies to further encroach on New Yorkers' civil liberties. Whenever something terrorist-related occurs, it seems as though the NYPD's reps can't keep their opinions to themselves, even as the department itself drifts further and further away from being a sterling example of How Things Should Be Done.

In a recent Christian Science Monitor article dealing with "teenagers, terrorism and social media" (focusing on the recent Cameron D'Ambrosio arrest for making "terrorist threats" via some improvised rap lyrics posted to Facebook), Sgt. Ed Mullins of the NYPD shows up to make some very disturbing statements about your rights and responsibilities as a (mere) citizen. It starts with the worst kind of "policy" and goes downhill fast.

Using a zero tolerance approach to track domestic terrorists online is the only reasonable way to analyze online threats these days, especially after the Boston Marathon bombing and news that the suspects had subsequently planned to target Times Square in Manhattan, Mullins says. The way law enforcement agencies approach online activity that appears sinister is this: “If you’re not a terrorist, if you’re not a threat, prove it,” he says.
"Zero tolerance" is never "reasonable." It never has been and it never will be. In fact, it's the polar opposite. Zero tolerance policies simply absolve the enforcers of any responsibility for the outcome and grant them the privilege of ignoring mitigating factors. It allows them to bypass applying any sort of critical thinking skills (the "reason" part of "reasonable") and view every infractions as nothing more than a binary IF THEN equation.

Mullins goes even further than this, though, asserting that the burden of proof lies with the person charged, not the person bringing the charges. This flips our judicial system on its head (along with the judicial systems in many other countries) and, if applied the way Mullins views it, puts accused citizens in the impossible position of trying to prove a negative. This is just completely wrong, and it's a dangerously stupid thing for someone in his position to believe, much less state out loud. (Mullins also heads the Sergeants Benevolent Association, the second-largest police union in New York City.)

Believe it or not, Mullins is not done talking. What he says next doubles up on the "dangerous" and "stupid."
This is the price you pay to live in free society right now. It’s just the way it is,” Mullins adds.
No. It isn't.

This is the price Mullins is charging to live in the NYPD's severely stunted version of a "free" society. The NYPD has been harassing young minorities at the rate of 500,000 impromptu stop-and-frisks per year for the better part of the last decade. For the past 10 years, the NYPD has been regularly trampling citizens' civil liberties simply because they attend a mosque. The NYPD and Mayor Bloomberg have worked ceaselessly to make New York the most-surveilled city in the U.S.

That's the price New Yorkers are paying. It has nothing to do with living in a free society. The NYPD takes liberties away and high-ranking cops like Mullins have the gall to suggest there's some sort of equitable exchange occurring. Mullins doesn't seem to understand (or just doesn't care) that if you take away freedom you no longer have a free society.

It has been said that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, but "eternal vigilance" isn't shorthand for oppressive surveillance and zero tolerance policies that make freedom less "free." "Eternal vigilance" isn't treating the Constitution like a relic too worn and tattered to serve any purpose in these "dangerous" times. And being an officer of the law isn't an excuse to shut your intellect off and allow your brain stem and broad policies to "work" in concert in order to treat loudmouth teens on Facebook like a guy with a trailer home full of explosives.

This "vigilance" is supposed to be put to use by citizens in order to prevent authorities like Mullins from encroaching on our liberties. It's not solely limited to a united military effort against foreign powers. There are plenty of people apparently willing to attack our freedom from the comfort of the home front.



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  1.  
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    silverscarcat (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 8:02am

    Bloomberg needs to step down. How the HELL can anyone from New York honestly say he's a good mayor?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 9:52am

    He's going to be sorry when robotic enforcement takes over with their real if then programming and the police suddenly find themselves losing their protected hypocritical freedoms.

     

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    Rikuo (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 9:55am

    "“If you’re not a terrorist, if you’re not a threat, prove it,” he says."

    Okay Mullins. What happens if a New York citizen calls the police and accuses YOU of being a terrorist? How can you prove you're not? Given your attitude, you're a threat to the citizenry, so I guess that means an automatic jail sentence for you.

     

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  4.  
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    TasMot (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 9:59am

    When Does Tom Cruise Step into the Picture

    Wow, New York is well on the way to implementing the Pre-Crime bureau but without the 3 future readers in the pond. Authorities have become so preoccupied with stopping crime before it happens that they have become blind to the fact that they are the ones committing the crimes by stomping on the Constitution they swore to protect. If it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:03am

    Re:

    Exactly what I thought when I read that, "You first, Officer Mullins. Show us how to do that. Vetted by the FBI? Oh, so was the guy who bombed the Boston Marathon..."

    What he wants is for everyone else to be set up to fail so he/his dept. can only be shown as succeeding.

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:09am

    We do NOT live in a free society right now!

     

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  7.  
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    Rapnel (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:12am

    Well that's strike three.

    New York is now officially being served and protected controlled by fucking lunatics.

    Give me liberty or give me death.

    There is no rule of law when the rules are your own. The revolution progresses. Defend your country.

     

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  8.  
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    St. Patrick, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:20am

    Eternal Vigilance

    "...eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"

    It is. Just not in the way Mullins is suggesting.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:21am

    His reply

    "I am a sergeant and officer of the police force. Police officers cannot be terrorists.* QED."

    * moreover, any citizen who would accuse an officer of being a terrorist is likely to be a terrorist. I suggest you start getting your proof in order.

     

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  10.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:23am

    They who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security.

     

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    Squirrel Brains (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:23am

    In my view, these comments by Sgt. Mullins make him a terrorist. He is advocating a philosophy calculated to terrorize the general citizenry and take away out fundamental rights. Why use bombs when you have the power of the NYPD behind you?

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:23am

    Re: His reply

    Reply to that: Christopher Dorner

     

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  13.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:23am

    Re:

    "Give me liberty or give me death."

    Amen

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:34am

    'the burden of proof lies with the person charged, not the person bringing the charges. This flips our judicial system on its head'

    we can thank the USA entertainment industries for this! it was them that started this, making those accused of 'piracy' 'guilty on accusation' and having to prove innocence, if they could afford a lawyer! had there have been more (some?) backlash, maybe the NYPD and others would not be doing the same thing! guilty until proven innocent has put society back centuries and all over freakin' movies and because those that make them cant do anything honestly themselves!!

     

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    iambinarymind (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:36am

    *Correction*

    "Guilty Until Proven Innocent" is the price we pay for Tyranny.

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:41am

    Re: Re:

    Y'all ready to die?

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:41am

    Ahh Zero Tolerance, the thing that brought us expulsion for bringing a DANGEROUS Nail Filer to school, and suspension for throwing DANGEROUS IMAGINARY hand grenades!

    What dangerous imaginary threats will zero tolerance protect us from next?

     

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  18.  
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    Kevin H (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:41am

    It saddens me that we have come to this. The cornerstone of out justice system was that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. This person who is charged with enforcement of those laws seems to thing that the Cardassian justice system is better suited to getting the job done. For that simple statement he should be removed from duty as he clearly does not understand what his job actually is.

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:45am

    The US might want to think about changing up the lyrics to their national anthem at this point. Land of the free, yeah right.

     

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  20.  
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    crade (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:47am

    It also gets pretty hard to prove you aren't a terrorist when the criteria for being a terrorist is intentionally left vague and open ended, and getting more so all the time ever since the gov't decided that using the label gives them more power.

     

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  21.  
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    Eponymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:47am

    We are all (potential) Terrorists now...

    The logical fail in his point of view is that there is never a point where anyone can reach pure innocence under this system. The very nature of people being human, thus unpredictable by nature, is that we all have the potential to become a "terrorist". We all have a breaking point where we may snap, and/or may have a future event, like a blood disease, tumor, etc. that may severly change our personality making us a threat to those around us. Couple that with the reality that the terms "Terrorism" and "Terrorist" are broadening to encompass more and more activities and events. This means that any of us could be radicalized by people looking to take advantage of our shortcomings; and by this I don't just mean Jihadists, but also government agencies looking to make a case to justify their expanding powers. This is the trouble of such a bianary narrative of -us vs. them- becoming the dominant one of law enforcement for those who are not amongst authority could be one of them. A system where being a potential threat is criminal leaves us all guilty, and never to be proved innocent.

     

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  22.  
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    Thomas (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:49am

    Training manual...

    Must be copied from the Gestapo manuals. Hopefully they are able to translate the German into English. Do the NYC cops now arrest Jews for simply being there?

    Just shows that way too many big city police departments are no longer to be trusted. I am more afraid of the cops in Boston than of muggers or addicts. You can get arrested for simply taking a photograph of a cop arresting someone in Boston/Cambridge. Great way to scare off tourists.

     

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  23.  
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    Peter (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:51am

    Can someone please arrest the guy ...

    ... and lock him away until he can prove that he is not a danger to society?

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:52am

    Re: *Correction*

    Nah, "guilty until proven innocent" is the mantra of the fearful.

     

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    Ophelia Millais (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:52am

    That fact that I can't imagine any politician, let alone law enforcer, nowadays saying anything like "We have nothing to fear but fear itself" really makes me wonder how bad things are going to get. The next big terrorist attack may well succeed at causing us to destroy ourselves.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:53am

    “This is the price you pay to live in free society right now. It’s just the way it is,” Mullins adds.

    Once you pay that price. You no longer live in a free society. That is just the way it is.

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 10:55am

    From the linked article:

    "We take every threat in our schools as a credible threat"

    In other words, we can't be bothered to do any actual thinking and will waste resources on things that are not credible.

     

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  28.  
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    DOlz (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 10:57am

    Why do you all hate the police?

    Police work is hard, gathering evidence and thinking and all. All the police want to do is outsource this to the general public. This is how "Murder, She Wrote" worked. The police would proclaim one of Jessica Fletcher's friends guilty of the murder and she would find the rest of the show finding who did it. Not only did she always find the guilty party, but it only took a hour.

     

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  29.  
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    Rikuo (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 11:29am

    Re:

    There's an upcoming Techdirt article where two 7 year olds pointed pencils at each other, made gun noises...and got suspended. That's right. That's what it says on the official suspension notice - made gun noises.

     

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  30.  
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    TheLastCzarnian (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 11:49am

    Re:

    Let's call it what it is: a witch hunt. We are setting the table for a new round of McCarthy hearings. A new era of squelching human rights in order to secure the American Way, in a way that is not remotely American.

    In my opinion, people like Sgt. Mullins should be banished.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 11:51am

    The 'price' of liberty was th lives of our ancestors who fought and died to protect it. You are now taking a sh*t on their grave. gg.

     

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  32.  
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    Dirkmaster (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 11:58am

    "Zero tolerance" is never "reasonable."

    Amen! Preach it, brother! It is, in fact, the very abrogation of reason. Zero tolerance means never having to think. It is a scourge in our education system, and for the NYPD to even SUGGEST it is terrifying.

     

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  33.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 12:01pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Yep.

     

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  34.  
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    Avantare, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:03pm

    Police need to do this then...

    Go to any office building and issue speeding citations to everyone because they 'know' everyone does it. Even if they take the subway. What the fuck...

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:12pm

    The NYPD no longer even think it is confined to the borders of the city. They've sent officer across the country and around the world to surveil peaceful protestors because.. terrorists. They've also hired so many new officers they could stage an invasion on NJ and take over their neighbor state completely. The NYPD isn't a police force anymore, it's become a good sized army.

     

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  36.  
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    Jay (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 12:12pm

    Already done

    We've done that. Countless times in recent memory.

    We have black people incarcerated in greater amounts and use them for slave wages in helping people get rich.

    Immigration is screwed up so that we can use Mexicans for cheap labor while we can't have higher skilled workers from other countries.

    Women are not pushed into STEM sciences which stops them from taking advantage of various fields that require math and sciences in large amounts.

    We don't even pay for the next generation and load them up with debt from getting college degrees.

    McCarthyism is hidden right here in the US as neo-liberalism which wants the rich to succeed while everyone else fails. And instead of a functioning government that provides for the nation, we have a ruling elite that works to keep themselves making money while the rest of the nation suffers. It's ridiculous.

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:13pm

    So the price we pay to live in a free society is to live in a police state? Sorta like freedom is slavery, and such?

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:29pm

    Re: Re: His reply

    Not sure if what Dorner did qualifies as terrorism.

    Assuming, of course that the label of "terrorism" actually has any relevant meaning beyond the buzzword it has become these days.

     

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  39.  
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    New Mexico Mark, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:44pm

    Re:

    Removed from duty? That would just mean lateral transfer or promotion. A fair punishment (let's call it "corrective measures") for this kind of arrogant ignorance from a person in his position? Public flogging comes to mind, but that's just my frustration speaking.

    What about:

    1) suspension (without pay of course) for a reasonable amount of time -- one year?
    2) satisfactory demonstration of remedial training in U.S. history including reading, reporting on, and passing tests on various key historical documents that formed the basis for the U.S. Constitution and core body of law and government
    3) demonstration that he can recite the U.S. Constitution word-for-word from memory (and at any time thereafter be required to recite at least the Bill of Rights), and
    4) a public, unqualified, apology for his statements including explanation of why they contradicted the most basic understanding of the tenets of liberty and law that are foundational to U.S. justice, regardless of (perceived) threats to the same.

    All of the above would be required to be completed before being allowed reinstatement, even after the initial time for suspension expired. In my opinion, THAT would be fair.

    If he doesn't think he deserves these corrective measures, he is of course welcome to live by his own standard and take his case to the courts at his own expense to try to prove his innocence. Because of his presumed guilt, suspension without pay will be extended until a verdict of "innocent" has been reached or any appeals to a "guilty" verdict have been exhausted. Since he was actually guilty until proved innocent, no remuneration of pay or benefits lost prior to an "innocent" judgment would be necessary, i.e. during the time when he was guilty.

    (In all fairness, he should be forewarned that any attempted court defense will only highlight his unrepentant attitude and may weigh heavily against him, necessitating further disciplinary actions. Think about it. What innocent person would he actually want to be in court?)

     

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  40.  
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    RocRizzo, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:45pm

    What the Seargent fails to state

    That the Police don't have to obey the law, because they ARE the law.
    Which explains his stance on guilt or innocence. Wait until there is proper law enforcement, he'll be the guilty one. Every cop is guilty of breaking some law. I know from experience.

     

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  41.  
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    DCX2, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:47pm

    The price we pay...

    I once paid the cover charge to enter a gentlemen's club. After paying the admission, the bouncer promptly threw me out of the building. He told me, "this is the price you pay to see strippers."

     

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  42.  
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    DCX2, May 8th, 2013 @ 12:50pm

    Re: What the Seargent fails to state

    Cops are never guilty. They're innocent until the Union decides to stop defending them.

     

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  43.  
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    Eponymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 1:01pm

    Look on the bright side...

    Maybe we'll get tyranny on a discount, we Americans love a good sale!

     

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  44.  
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    Oblate (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 1:10pm

    Re:

    "Give me liberty or give me death."

    They will be glad to serve you. Note that they do not dispense liberty.

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 1:11pm

    Can't I just throw in a buck 05?

     

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  46.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 1:21pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    pretty ok with it if it means fighting for the right cause.

     

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  47.  
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    Vincent Clement (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 1:24pm

    Re:

    My son received a three-day suspension for voluntarily giving his Swiss Army Knife to staff before the school day started. He has neurological issues and learning disabilities and has an Educational Assistant to assist him throughout the day. According to the school, he brought a weapon on school property and they based the suspension on their version of zero tolerance and his mitigating factors.

    They better not have any knives in the school cafeteria.

     

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  48.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 1:27pm

    Re: Already done

    Ah yes Jay, my favorite socialist, love how you have to twist the fanatical words of the ultimate example of what happens when socialist become communist (Trust me Hugo and Stalin would love this guy...kinda suprised you dont too)

    This guy is a statist just like Hugo and all the rest, bow down and serve peasant.

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 1:32pm

    Re: Re:

    You sir have earned a insightful, well said.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 1:49pm

    Wait he really said that? That basically goes against quite a big foundation of our country. Also suggesting its the price we pay for a free society is even more silly since due process is a very important part of America.

     

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  51.  
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    bshock, May 8th, 2013 @ 1:52pm

    Who watches the watchmen?

    Eternal vigilance against misguided individuals like Sgt. Ed Mullins is the price of liberty.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 2:59pm

    Re: Re:

    When educators such as these demonstrate their lack of the ability to reason in such a manner, then they only prove that they are not qualified to be educators. How can one effectively teach others to think intellegently when they themselves apparently lack the ability?

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 3:01pm

    The NYPD is the REAL Terrorist threat!

    Mullins and Bloomberg both!

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 3:17pm

    Re: His reply

    The point of the exercise, in my opinion, is to further damage the police sergeants reputation with the public. Trying to change the system at this point is useless. The only real progress to be made is getting the masses to understand whats going on.

    I can see the conversation now.

    "Hello NYPD? I would like to report a blasphemous individual pushing terrorist propaganda across the networks, actively working to degrade the freedoms and liberties of this fine nation and seeking to strangle the last vestiges of honor this fine country holds so dear!"

    I would love to see him convince people that all this repeated grandstanding isn't leading down some twisted plot. His persistance alone in systematically destroying the very foundations upon which the country was built should, by definition, be justifiably terrorism.

    .....

    I'll be right back. I have a few phonecalls to make to various law enforcement agencies. Lets see if we can get them fighting each other!

     

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  55.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 3:19pm

    When did I end up in this bizarro world? Back home, "innocent until proven guilty" was the price the police paid so that we could live in a free society. It made their job harder, but it was just and fair, and the police took pride in their work.

    Here everything's topsy-turvy; "guilty until proven innocent" is the price we pay so that they can live in a free society, and anyone who complains about it gets beaten up.

     

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  56.  
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    That One Guy (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 3:37pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Doesn't matter, as more and more the purpose of schools seems to be teaching people to obey those in authority, no matter what, not reasoning and intelligent thinking.

     

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  57.  
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    DOlz (profile), May 8th, 2013 @ 4:56pm

    Re: Why do you all hate the police?

    Should have read "she would spent the rest of the show" not "she would find the rest of the show".

     

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  58.  
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    Wolfy, May 8th, 2013 @ 6:40pm

    And their charging the surviving suspect with use of a weapon of mass destruction... hello... atomic bomb here, can I have my lable back?

     

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  59.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 7:05pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MeUyUR8rE0&feature=share&list=PLaUQIC_mEru1oNuUvEicvYl5xPVX2 ZK-O

    It is not acceptable that anyone should not oppose murder, genocide, war crimes, crimes against peace and crimes against Humanity, even more importantly, when one is in a position of power, one must do all that is within their power to speak out and against such breaches in human rights and crimes against peace. All are responsible for their actions and must be held to account. Nuremberg Principle III states, “The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.” http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/draft%20articles/7_1_1950.pdf

    The crimes associated with waging aggressive war, laid down in the Nuremberg Principles and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute_of_the_International_Criminal_Court are clear.
    “If any person, in furtherance of a state policy, orders the use of force to attack members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, that person and everyone who takes part in the attack is responsible for the consequences, breaks international law and, if it results in the deaths of innocent people, commits the universal crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, aggression or conduct ancillary to such crimes”.

    Nuremberg principles http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/full/390 Nuremberg Principle IV states, “The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.”

    Nuremberg Principle III states, “The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWEVNGcwInE

     

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  60.  
    identicon
    Peoples_Assembly, May 8th, 2013 @ 7:06pm

    Murder & war crimes

    Sorry we forgot to fill in the details in our earlier post.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MeUyUR8rE0&feature=share&list=PLaUQIC_mEru1oNuUvEicvYl5xPV X2ZK-O

    It is not acceptable that anyone should not oppose murder, genocide, war crimes, crimes against peace and crimes against Humanity, even more importantly, when one is in a position of power, one must do all that is within their power to speak out and against such breaches in human rights and crimes against peace. In truth the Queen is not in a gilded cage, she is responsible for her actions and must be held to account. Nuremberg Principle III states, “The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.” http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/draft%20articles/7_1_1950.pdf

    The crimes associated with waging aggressive war, laid down in the Nuremberg Principles and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute_of_the_International_Criminal_Court are clear.
    “If any person, in furtherance of a state policy, orders the use of force to attack members of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, that person and everyone who takes part in the attack is responsible for the consequences, breaks international law and, if it results in the deaths of innocent people, commits the universal crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, aggression or conduct ancillary to such crimes”.

    Nuremberg principles http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/full/390 Nuremberg Principle IV states, “The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.”

    Nuremberg Principle III states, “The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWEVNGcwInE

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    FM Hilton, May 8th, 2013 @ 7:15pm

    This is surprising?

    Contrary to what everyone believes, most cops view ordinary citizens as the enemy-to be dealt with as harshly as possible within the limits of the law.

    The assume you're guilty of something, and then they make sure they will remember your face next time they see you on the street.

    Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself. You'll be surprised how much legal harassment they can get away with under the law.

    Or doesn't anyone remember Sean Bell, or perhaps Amadou Bailo Diallo? They were both victims of cop justice. They both died at the hands of cops-who in both cases were indicted, tried and acquitted. That's cop justice for you-not your usual kind of 'equal under the law' stuff.

    Yes, they do uphold the law-theirs. So this shouldn't surprise anyone at all.

     

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  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, May 8th, 2013 @ 7:30pm

    Re: Why do you all hate the police?

    "Police work is hard, gathering evidence and thinking and all. All the police want to do is outsource this to the general public."...


    And doughnuts!

     

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  63.  
    identicon
    MAC, May 8th, 2013 @ 8:28pm

    Re: His reply - Oh Really?

    Oh really?
    That's probably what the Geistopo said in 1937.

    Have you even read the United States Constitution?

    If not, I suggest you do. You cannot uphold something that you don't understand.

    And don't get me wrong, the police and vigilance against terrorism are absolutely necessary.

    However, If our Freedoms are taken in the process then there really is nothing for you to defend is there?

     

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  64.  
    identicon
    MAC, May 8th, 2013 @ 8:30pm

    Re:

    it's know as Roman law. Guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

    Not like what we have today, wealthy law. Guilty until proven wealthy...

     

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  65.  
    identicon
    MAC, May 8th, 2013 @ 8:37pm

    The Great Danger...

    Cops have a very tough job.

    When you have to look at the dark underbelly of society for years on end it changes your brain.

    Many police succumb to the outlook that everyone is guilty and they, the police, are the only just ones.

    Others just give up and become thugs themselves.

    Only a very few can hold themselves above it and remain neutral, in both actions and words.

    What a terrible job. I hope and pray that those sworn to protect us never forget that. That they are sworn to protect us.

     

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  66.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2013 @ 9:30pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ok, for you and the ac below. This could be a good start. We should 1) burn down the NSA facility in Utah unless they allow U.S. citizens to monitor everything that takes place there. 2) Stop the Federal Reserve from "printing" any more currency. This isn’t all that must be done, but it will show them that we are serious.

    Now, this is no small undertaking. To actually be carried out "peacefully" we will need many to sacrifice in order to get our demands met. Through video and social media (while we still have it) we will capture and show the world what we stand for. How many Americans will they kill before the outrage is too much?

    I am not sure how many people it would take to do this. In terms of Utah, if large groups of people continued to advance on the facility, unarmed, save a lighter. They could arrest many, but not all. Would they bring out the guns then, probably not yet? You'd deal with gas, rubber bullets, clubs, boots and fists. But... at some point, out would come the gun. At some point, more people would wake up. They would realize that this isn't a game.

    Would they use drones? I wonder how the media would cover it. The People would need to show the truth... so it requires many to stream/record, provide logistical support and walk towards the building. How many People of These United States do you think this "government" will kill in front of the world before we are allowed to burn this symbol to the ground, or the People are allowed to take "emergency control" of this country's affairs (all of them).

    It is time to take a stand. They will likely "get" many more of us if we wait and let them do it on their terms.

    I am not going to get into 2; it is much harder to do but would require a similar strategy.

    p.s. this should not be taken as a plan of any kind, merely a quick, back of the envelope, example of the level of cognitive dissonance it might take to bring some type of law and order / accountability back to this country at this point.

     

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  67.  
    identicon
    Steve Macintyre, May 8th, 2013 @ 11:20pm

    Deport this unamerican piece of feces to North Korea.

    He'll feel far more safe and comfortable there.

     

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  68.  
    icon
    Anonymous Howard (profile), May 9th, 2013 @ 1:08am

    Re:

    Raping for innocence

     

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  69.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), May 9th, 2013 @ 4:23am

    Re: Re: Already done

    Ah yes Jay, my favorite socialist, love how you have to twist the fanatical words of the ultimate example of what happens when socialist become communist (Trust me Hugo and Stalin would love this guy...kinda suprised you dont too)

    Nope. I may have a more democratic view than you, but I'm not a Stalinist nor a communist. Good job on finding a new angle of attack instead of focusing on actual arguments though.

     

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  70.  
    identicon
    Peter Landy, May 9th, 2013 @ 4:47am

    Police are the largest gangs in the nation

    Who are one of the most corrupt institution on the face of the earth? Since when are criminals qualified to pass judgement on law abiding citizens?
    http://ogs-silentcrimes.blogspot.com/2013/04/us-charges-new-york-assemblyman-others.html

     

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  71.  
    icon
    Liz (profile), May 9th, 2013 @ 7:33am

    I've said it before about school policies and it applies equally as well here: Zero Tolerance policies are a way for people in a position of authority to refrain from using critical thinking skills.

     

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  72.  
    identicon
    The Real Michael, May 9th, 2013 @ 7:42am

    Re: Training manual...

    The key is to not be afraid, to defy authority when it concerns your Constitutional rights. What the NY and Boston police are attempting to do is justify abuse of authority. However, they can only succeed if the people allow themselves to be abused.

     

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  73.  
    identicon
    charkee, May 11th, 2013 @ 12:01pm

    proving innocence.

    anybody that has not been in the court system since the 60's are in for a rude awakening. The courts are corrupt beyond belief and nobody is safe. They can charge you with anything and suddenly you are fighting for your life. Why do they do it? For the money, courts are all about money and truth but an annoyance. When the SHTF these creeps will get their just reward.

     

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  74.  
    identicon
    anyone, May 11th, 2013 @ 1:43pm

    he's not very bright

    You cannot prove a negative. How can I prove I am not a terrorist if I have never committed an act defined as a terrorist act? The only thing I can do is show CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence suggesting there is not connection between the act I am said to have done but in fact never happened.

    What bothers me if the lack of intelligence here, if you can't even work the basic laws of logic, how can you be expected to work the basic 10 million or so laws. Platitudes of this nature are intended to show toughness, resolve, but in fact they just show ignorance beyond all belief.

     

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  75.  
    identicon
    Thomas, May 11th, 2013 @ 2:13pm

    Presumed Guilty.....

    The Courts and the several Legislatures (including the Congress) can all recite the 2nd Amendment ad naseaum to elicite the next vote; while conspiring daily to repeal the other 9 amendments. The Bill of Rights has ceased to exist; and, if you are not outraged, you need to check you pulse.

     

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  76.  
    icon
    Winston Hibler (profile), May 11th, 2013 @ 3:22pm

    Fascism on the March

    New York and Mexifornia are leading the way to the bright new neo-fascist, collectivist, totalitarian police state that Democrats, progressives, Marxists and other control freaks have yearned for for so long.

     

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  77.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, May 11th, 2013 @ 3:42pm

    Re: Re: *Correction*

    I will go with mantra of the lazy.
    Placing the burden of proof on the accused means the accuser don't have to work as hard proving his claims. No hard work finding evidence, no hard work filing reports, no hard work interviewing witnesses, no hard work piecing together all the facts. Just point a finger at someone and then there is plenty of time left on the shift for surfing the internet and shoving donuts into your mouth.

     

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  78.  
    identicon
    Conspiracy Smurf, May 11th, 2013 @ 4:24pm

    Guilty Until Proven Innocent

    Mullins needs to be fired immediately. His opinions and views are in clear contrast to the ACTUAL LAWS ON THE BOOKS. He is stating his opinion in an official capacity reflecting on the department and entire city government. He obviously cannot fulfill his responsibilities of his position when he clearly does not understand/agree with the law and therefore is not upholding that law while at the same time spreading DISINFORMATION/MISINFORMATION. It is NOT a person's responsibility to prove their innocense. We do not have "zero tolerance" policies in effect. If I were a NY resident I would start going after these cops and city officials' jobs...remember, he is getting paid and benefits on tax payer dollars while he spews ANTI AMERICAN BS.

     

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  79.  
    icon
    aaheart (profile), May 11th, 2013 @ 5:29pm

    Freedom

    "They hate us for our freedoms," was the definition of the terr'ists by President George W. Bush. So now we know who the terr'ists really are. They are the ones who hate us for our freedoms. That has to be just about everybody in government and law enforcement. Mullins just defined himself as a terr'ist.

     

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  80.  
    identicon
    scott kuhnen, May 11th, 2013 @ 6:05pm

    This is what happens

    This is what happens when jews achieve power. The NYPD is the only american police dept with an office in Tel Aviv!

    "We will rule with rods of iron"! Menachem Begin

     

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  81.  
    identicon
    mr_bellows, May 11th, 2013 @ 7:59pm

    Sgt. Ed Mullins...IS A SATAN WORSHIPING PEDOPHILE AND BLOOMBERG, IS A DUAL CITIZEN TRAITOR TO THE REPUBLIC...prove me wrong!!!

     

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  82.  
    icon
    AlexNagy (profile), May 12th, 2013 @ 5:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Sounds like a plan to me (and a right good one).

     

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  83.  
    identicon
    Richard Burgeson, May 13th, 2013 @ 12:04pm

    Bring back the sanity

    We have 200 years in history that prove this is wrong. We had freedom with everything they want to take from you and we also had peace.

     

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  84.  
    icon
    LJW (profile), May 14th, 2013 @ 3:19pm

    Forget the loss of freedom and liberty, this approach is impractical. This is lazy police work. It's essentially saying we'll just wait to see who doesn't prove themselves innocent, then arrest them.

    In reality, this approach will make looking for a needle in a haystack, more like looking at a pile of needles on top of what used to be a haystack.

    It just creates more false leads, wastes more time, and reduces the possibility of actually stopping a terrorist attack.

    You can't write a program to stop terror (yes, I've seen the TV show, it's not real). It takes actual work. It can't be handled by a simple policy, it's got to be handled by policing!

    This is why we have "intelligence" services. They are supposed to put the pieces together, not wait for the pieces to assemble themselves into a nice, easy to read picture.

     

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  85.  
    icon
    bluesapphire48 (profile), May 15th, 2013 @ 3:48am

    To Police Cowards Everywhere

    Mr. Mullins, You and your fellow police "officers" on the NYPD are fascist brownshirts. You don't agree? Then, PROVE YOU'RE NOT!

     

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  86.  
    identicon
    Brohammer, May 15th, 2013 @ 11:05am

    Re: *Correction*

    It is the price we pay for Tyranny. And, as it turns out, neofascism is super expensive.

     

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  87.  
    identicon
    pompky dukeynut, May 15th, 2013 @ 5:18pm

    Response to: Anonymous Coward on May 8th, 2013 @ 10:09am

    I wholly agreed with you. Its odd to me how people talk as if we still have and rights or a democracy at all. Its enough to show the Boston incident and how easily and readily the various layers of policing authorities essentially enacted immediate marshall law barreling into people's houses without warrants and establishing curfew. Wake up! They've got us locked in the cross hair of the police totalitarian state and all they have to do is pull the entire national trigger and the dissidents are off to FEMA camps.."HI ho hi ho.. its off to Fema we go"( sung to the snow white and seven dwarf tune) This by the way I'd my last political commentary on the state of the state. From hence forth I shall remain a silent observor of all that shall come to pass with the sorrow that I have to pass my final yrs on earth with this now coming...

     

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  88.  
    identicon
    pompky dukeynut, May 15th, 2013 @ 5:44pm

    I can smell your fear because you know whats what as do I I suggest for your own safety unless your really drawn to be a revolutionary and martyr because of some internal callIing or passion,it is Better to stay calm and quiet until the new order pushes through the rubble of our decimated nation state. Many will die , for what? This is just another historical paroxysism of an old power dying with blood on its hands and stains on its heart and soul while the new arises in its lean community based peer driven form taking all power away from the corporate monopoly central axis network. Easy does it. Breathe stay calm. I plan to meditate throughout the rukus of the boot and goose steppin blues we'll be singing by the fortnight. Remember as Leonard Cohen sings, "love is the engine of survival"!:-)

     

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  89.  
    icon
    bluesapphire48 (profile), May 15th, 2013 @ 6:23pm

    Wow! What a beautiful comment! Thank you for your advice.
    I do try to stay calm... meditate, go for long walks, etc. etc. And, I try to stay clear of trouble. Actually, I am mostly concerned these days with Fukushima, which is far worse than any of the media are telling us.
    I think what you say is really true, about the "old order" dying and all. I am just afraid that we will radiate ourselves (or rather, the nuclear mafia will radiate us) all to extinction before the old order collapses. ("Come gather round people, wherever you roam, and admit that the waters around you have grown..." etc. etc.)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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