Twitter Sued For $50 Million In France For Protecting Identity Of Hateful Twitter Users (Even Though It Deleted The Tweets)

from the i-may-not-like-what-you-say,-but-i'll-fight-for-your-right-to-say-it dept

Last year the Union of Jewish French Students (UEJF) sued Twitter, because a bunch of people in France start tweeting ridiculous anti-semitic tweets as some sort of weird anti-semitic hashtag became popular in France:
Last October, the UEJF sued Twitter after the hashtag "#unBonJuif" (French for "#aGoodJew") became the third most popular trending topic on Twitter in France. With so many tweets indexed under that hashtag, many users took the opportunity to post Holocaust jokes, racially charged statements (e.g. "#aGoodJew is a dead jew"), photos of dustpans filled with dust, and even calls to kill more Jews.
Even though it's a strong defender of free speech, Twitter agreed to remove the tweets in question as offensive. As someone who is Jewish and who is quite offended by anti-semitism, I still think this was the wrong move. Censoring ignorant speech does nothing to fix things. Ignorant speech should be countered with non-ignorant speech. That said, Twitter made its decision and removed the tweets.

Turns out, that wasn't enough. The UEJF demanded the identities of everyone who tweeted such anti-semitic remarks. Twitter refused, but lost in court. Afterwards, it still refused to pass along the info, and so the UEJF has now filed a second lawsuit, seeking $50 million.
“Twitter is playing the indifference card and does not respect the ruling,” Hayoun told AFP. “They have resolved to protect the anonymity of the authors of these tweets and have made themselves accomplices to racists and anti-Semites.”
Either that or they're pushing back against a lynchmob mentality, and protecting at least some precepts of free speech and an expectation of privacy. What's incredible, frankly, is that while Europe is known to have less respect for free speech principles than the US, it tends to have greater respect for privacy rights. Apparently not in this case, however.

Twitter has put out a statement suggesting that the UEJF is much more interested in using this for publicity purposes than anything else:
"We've been in continual discussions with UEJF," a Twitter spokesperson told CNET. "As yesterday's new filing shows, they are sadly more interested in grandstanding than taking the proper international legal path for this data. We are filing our appeal today, and would have filed it sooner if not for UEJF's intentional delay in processing the court's decision."
Even more ridiculous is that it appears that it's not just Twitter being sued, but Twitter CEO Dick Costolo. If this all sounds vaguely familiar, that may be because a decade ago, Yahoo faced a similar ridiculous situation, in which both the company and its CEO were charged as war criminals (no joke!) because Yahoo's non-France websites sold some Nazi memorabilia (they blocked it on Yahoo's French sites). At some point, people bringing these kinds of lawsuits have to realize how counterproductive they are. I'm extremely sympathetic to their offense at the ignorant tweets, but their legal actions take away all of that sympathy.


Reader Comments (rss)

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 7:52pm

    Twits

    You would think the "Union of Jewish French Students" would realize that even if they won the case, they would need to give the money to the French Govt. to bomb Mali etc.

    Or maybe they did and that is how they came up with the ridiculous $50M figure.

    Moar $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

     

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      The Real Michael, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 12:00pm

      Re: Twits

      That's an interesting observation ...and true. Somehow it's perfectly fine for the the French government to go bomb other countries, killing and looting, but people on the internet making insulting/hateful comments is enough to spur a witch hunt.

      Don't get me wrong, this does not erase the hurt caused by such venom, but it does expose a certain hypocrisy from within their government. The more power the people concede to government, the more the latter will resemble a high-tech thought police state like Nazi Germany.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 8:07pm

    From what I understand they were required to delete the posts per French law. The privacy issue I think is Twitter trying to maintain their core value

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 2:59am

      Re:

      To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.
      Voltaire

       

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        Serge, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 11:51am

        Re: Re:

        You are allowed to criticize anyone you want, Coward. On the other hand, you are not allowed to break French law in France. You do not have the ability to distinguish between these, but others do not suffer from your handicap.

         

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          The Real Michael, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 12:02pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          I think he makes a valid point. If I'm not mistaken, he's quoting someone else.

           

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          btr1701 (profile), Mar 25th, 2013 @ 12:46pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          > On the other hand, you are not allowed to
          > break French law in France.

          Or apparently anywhere else, according to the French. This attitude was put on display when they tried to hold web sites liable for selling Nazi memorabilia anywhere in the world, even when the sales weren't in France and the web sites weren't based in France.

           

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        Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 8:10pm

        Re: Re:

        So, the Jews are our supreme overlords?

         

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      Serge, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 11:55am

      Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 8:07pm

      Yes. How is it possible that Masnick was able to write a whole post about this without mentioning the core fact -- that this is about suing to identify the defendants in a suit? As Masnick apparently doesn't know, U.S'law allows exactly the same thing. If someone has broken the law to your detriment, and you have a lawful case against them, they cannot avoid a suit via a veil of anonymity.

       

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        That One Guy (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 5:10pm

        Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 8:07pm

        Umm yeah, if there were just looking for names so they can file suit, then where is the the 50 million coming from? That has 'you dared to stand up to us and so you will be punished for it' and/or 'you will be punished for the actions of your users' written all over it.

         

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 8:37pm

    Time for all the Internet SaaS providers like Twitter, Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Bing etc. to pull all corporate offices out of France.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 8:38pm

    Awesome job France! You built the statue of liberty for us to represent freedom and now you're doing the exact opposite to your own damn people..

    I guess we should build France a giant Hitler statue.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 8:43pm

      Re:

      Hah...that's somewhat ironic.

       

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      G Thompson (profile), Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 9:43pm

      Re:

      Nah just a huge white flag being held by a member of the Eleutherodactylus genus eating some Fromage would be adequate

       

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        Anonymous Howard (profile), Mar 25th, 2013 @ 3:41am

        Re: Re:

        Funny, how this kind of jokes are allowed, but jewish jokes are frowned upon as 'antisemitism' ...

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Mar 25th, 2013 @ 8:05am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Well you can't piss off the Jewish, blacks, Asians, Russians, Italians, women, politicians, or lawyers (did I miss anyone?). However, you can make fun of countries, most whites, and poor people.

          Free speech is good*

          *unless the target is rich and/or powerful, a racism card can be played, or it's targeting a minority.

           

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            Anonymous Howard (profile), Mar 25th, 2013 @ 8:50am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            I have a joke:
            - Two jews walk into a bar
            - NO racist jokes!
            - What if I kill the jews?!
            - I don't want that kind of things in my show
            - I wouldn't kill them, Nooooo. I'd toss a peny between them and watch them fight to death XD
            - ARrrrgghh
            - I did it with two catholic priests and a small boy. But the winner had to compete with Michael Jackson

             

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            btr1701 (profile), Mar 25th, 2013 @ 12:50pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            > Well you can't piss off the Jewish, blacks,
            > Asians, Russians, Italians, women, politicians,
            > or lawyers. However, you can make fun of countries,
            > most whites, and poor people.

            You can also safely mock or denigrate Christians, but don't even think about trying that with other religions, especially in Europe. Laughing at Christians is okay, laugh at a Muslim and you're charged with 'inciting religious hatred'.

             

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              Chris, Apr 3rd, 2013 @ 8:00am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              That is completely wrong and that is not the reality.

              "Laughing at Christians is okay, laugh at a Muslim and you're charged with 'inciting religious hatred". It' actually the opposite. You can mock Muslims so much as you want, but if you mock or denigrate Christians or Jewish you are charged with religious hatred. I have seen this with my own eyes. It's very very sad that Muslims are getting mocked and denigrated but this is how the world is today sadly.

               

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    Digdug (profile), Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 10:36pm

    A corporation standing up for user privacy rights? I'm impressed. I didn't think there were any of those left to be perfectly honest. Good for Twitter. I'm still never using their service but good for them.

     

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      Ole Juul (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 12:46am

      Re:

      I'm with you - good for Twitter. However, I do use Twitter a little bit. One thing that is noteworthy here is that one has to request the "tweets" one gets - by "following". In other words, I wouldn't get any messages from the offending parties in this case because I haven't requested them. I'm not entirely sure why someone would, and perhaps Twitter corporation is wondering the same.

       

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        Digdug (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 1:21am

        Re: Re:

        I realized that I wasn't terribly clear so here it is; my dislike of the service has nothing to do with this or any related incident. I just don't find it to be a valuable tool for me is all.

         

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          Ole Juul (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 3:07am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Yes, it really is difficult to use. I check it about once a month when I post there for an organization. Though occasionally getting updates on something, like during the Egyptian uprising, can be useful. In any case, if one wants something like the hateful tweets mentioned in the story, one has to specifically seek them out, there is absolutely no "public" harm. The ire shown towards Twitter in this case is just plain weird from my perspective. To me it just looks like some kind of aggressive masochism, or similar mixture of contradictory psychology.

           

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        R.H. (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 12:56pm

        Re: Re:

        The problem in this case is the fact that the offensive tweets were using a hashtag '#aGoodJew' which was already being used by another organization for positive tweets. So if you searched on that hashtag you'd also get those offensive tweets.

        Mind you, I don't agree with the idea of criminal liability arising from either factual free speech or any opinion however, even granting the fact that France has laws against anti-semitic hate speech, unless Twitter has physical offices in France, they should not be subject to French law. Just as companies without American offices shouldn't be subject to American law.

         

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    Bergman (profile), Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 10:45pm

    Precedents and jurisdictions...

    Does this mean you could sue a French company that only does (online) business from a server in France in the court of another country and have it stick?

    a 42USC1983 suit against the French government perhaps, in U.S. federal court?

    Or are the French insisting that only they have the authority to sue a company in another nation in their own court?

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 3:12am

      Re: Precedents and jurisdictions...

      "Or are the French insisting that only they have the authority to sue a company in another nation in their own court?"

      No, I think the USA has that sewn up

       

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      Ole Juul (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 3:25am

      Re: Precedents and jurisdictions...

      Perhaps I don't quite understand your point, but it seems to me that the US was pretty aggressive in bringing down Megaupload, and there are many other examples of the US applying their laws (or trying to) in other countries. I guess everybody just wants to impose their will on others. It's one of those human flaws which just doesn't seem to go away. Of course having the courts uphold it doesn't help.

       

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    The Old Man in The Sea, Mar 22nd, 2013 @ 11:32pm

    They had better be careful what they ask for..... they may get it

    The problem with their lawsuit, the moment any Jew makes a comment against anyone else, they have opened themselves up for the same treatment. We already have enough surveillance without silly groups of people wanting more because they are offended.

    They have not learnt from history. Yes bad comments can hurt your feelings, but if you don't develop a thicker skin then everything becomes offensive.

    There are times to stand up and be counted and there are times when it is just better to ignore the slurs.

    I can think of many occasions when someone has attacked another verbally and and the attackee has responded so well (in some cases by actually saying nothing at all) that the attacker has been left looking like the fool he/she was.

     

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      gorehound (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 5:41am

      Re: They had better be careful what they ask for..... they may get it

      I am Jewish and the Son of a Holocaust Survivor.My Dad is still alive and here with us at the age of 89.He was in the Underground in Budapest 1944.He was Captured and Tortured by the Gestapo late Oct.1944 and then shipped to Germany where he was Enslaved in four Concentration Camps.

      I am a Firm Believer in Free Speech.Nazi Fucks open their mouths and spout their dribble I will use intelligence to put them down.Most folks got enough sense to know these kind of guys are human refuse.
      Best to use great Words to show how dumb and how low they are as people.
      www.bigmeathammer.com Check out the Kratz Family Memorial Website of Carpathian Jewry.

       

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      Serge, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 11:58am

      Re: They had better be careful what they ask for..... they may get it

      No, that's incorrect. Rather, the moment any Jew makes a racist comment in violation of French laws on same, they have opened themselves up for the same treatment. That's because French law says so, not because of this suit -- though you wouldn't know it to read Techdirt's article, which is misleading.

       

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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 12:30am

    Its all fun and games until the platforms leave the countries.

     

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    Beech, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 4:12am

    I'm not so sure this is twitter being a good guy, standing up for their principles out of sheer altruism. I mean, maybe it is... But maybe they just don't want to get sued in an EU Court for breaching EU privacy laws at the behest of a French court.

     

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    anonymouse, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 4:46am

    Resolve this quick

    How did this become such a big story , it is just spreading the hatred, easy way to stop this tell everyone that if they don't want to see this to not use twitter.
    This whole incident is just giving more of the limelight for those that would like to spread their hatred, I am happy to see that the people that visit this site are not the type that would spread this hatred, nice guy's very nice.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 6:00am

    Although discrimination is a horrible thing, and I do suffer from it personally where I live and without knowing why Twitter is really doing this, I believe what Twitter did is a good thing.

    People should be able to say what they want, even if what they want to say is objectable. I do understand that France has historical reasons to come down hard on that type of speech, but it should not.

    Speech is above all a sensor, you don't disconnect your heat sensor on a thermonuclear facility because it shows you readings you don't like or would get you in trouble. You go down there and see why it is reaching those temperature levels and fix the problem.

    I just read an opinion piece on the CNN about a man being fired because he was gay, and how in 29 states in America that is ok to do it.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/22/opinion/sutter-employment-discrimination-lgbt/index.html?hp t=hp_t5

    I find that even more troubling than just jokes and hate speech in a public forum you deprive people of a way to earn a living, that is serious, but even so I don't think we need government to step in and enact laws or make illegal. Why? because things change the ones doing the discrimination could be the ones down the road facing that same type of discrimination by gay people and I believe although wrong to do it, it would be a form o scape valve.

    People without prejudice should unity and create their own firms, their own work spaces and start discriminating against people who discriminate, I believe in market forces doing the "education", I don't believe in governments, they are too slow to adapt to change they are not well suited to deal with those types of situations and literally have no skin on these matters, people on the streets though see and feel everything they have to live through all of that and they know the context they are in, they are better suited to judge what needs to be done and short of violence, some forms of discrimination actually could be used as enforcement of social codes, not all of course, extreme cases may need use of force to stop it, you don't want Jews burning White Supremacists houses or vice-versa and you don't want religious people attacking physically each other, but light overt discrimination may be ok.

    Just a thought.

     

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      SleepyJohn, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 2:52pm

      Re: "Speech is above all a sensor"

      "Speech is above all a sensor, you don't disconnect your heat sensor on a thermonuclear facility because it shows you readings you don't like or would get you in trouble. You go down there and see why it is reaching those temperature levels and fix the problem."

      I like this. I think it is one of the best practical arguments for free speech regardless of content that I have ever come across.

       

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    Corwin (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 6:01am

    Why would they pay?

    Who in France can make them pay? This makes no sense. How would they enforce that?
    France : "Twitter owes us fifty mil!"
    Twitter: "Fuck you."
    France : "..."

    What're they gonna do, send French repo men? Where? Or, censor the site, because that's going to work. LOL

    This makes no sense. Oh, yeah, so they'd be barred from using French bank accounts to pay and get paid for ads and shit. Like that's critically important for business. Yeah, right.

    WHAT are they gonna do? If it was physical goods it'd be easy to stop them at borders or something, but it's a website. How could France punish a website for not paying up this censorship-based racketeering? Or stop it from operating? There are hundreds of sites that extract and sort and filter Twitter feeds, would they try and stop those? It's impossible.

    WHY would they pay?

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Mar 24th, 2013 @ 10:59am

      Re: Why would they pay?

      The very same way the US is doing it, in similar circumstances!

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Mar 24th, 2013 @ 11:02am

      Re: Why would they pay?

      - France freezes Twitter assets in France, and Twitter assets handled by French companies (banks for example)...
      - France issues national and international arrest warrants for Twitter executives...
      - Etc, etc, etc...
      ;)

       

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        btr1701 (profile), Mar 25th, 2013 @ 12:58pm

        Re: Re: Why would they pay?

        > France freezes Twitter assets in France,
        > and Twitter assets handled by French companies

        Yes, Twitter would have to be sure and divest themselves of the country before defying the order. Shut down their offices there and pull their assets out of French banks. But for a mostly-online company like Twitter, that's of minimal concern.

        > France issues national and international
        > arrest warrants for Twitter executives

        Which the U.S. would ignore and refuse extradition. All those warrants would mean is that those executives would have to be careful to never go to France. So much as a plane change at Charles de Gaulle and they could be snatched up. Otherwise, the warrants are meaningless.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Mar 25th, 2013 @ 3:00pm

          Re: Re: Re: Why would they pay?

          You are incorrect!
          It ain't just France, it's the EU (the Franco-German duopoly controls the European Union).
          And don't forget, the majority of the biggest and most important institutions of the EU are located in France, giving France a huge additional influence (for example, just 1 French city, Strasbourg, is the official seat of the European Parliament, Council of Europe, European Court of Human Rights, Eurocorps, European Ombudsman, etc, etc...)!

          The arrest warrants are automatically enforced in Europe ("Once issued, it requires another member state to arrest and transfer a criminal suspect or sentenced person to the issuing state so that the person can be put on trial or complete a detention period").
          So, realistically speaking, an entire continent, and a very important one, is completely off limits for them!
          And not many extra-European countries are known to ignore EU warrants, and requests; creating a very real chilling effect for the Twitter executives to to travel abroad (greatly impeding abilities to conduct business, and personal affairs)...

           

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 6:15am

    Almost forgot, what this has to do with free speech.

    Simple, overt discrimination against people who discriminate would put those people who discriminate at the fringe of society, they would have to be quiet in public and only have to vent their frustrations in open anonymous ways, which is not bad.

    Society becomes aware of potential problems by letting people vent their frustrations whatever those are, and light/overt discrimination against discrimination acts as the enforcing mechanism to keep those discontent inline with social norms.

    Would it work?

    Shunning has been used for a long time to preserve social rules in many communities, is a powerful thing, so it could work and could be better than "government" because then it is personal, it is not the big brother forcing anything is your own peers telling you, you should not do it, and should change your ways.

    Some times it will be good and some times it will be bad.
    Discrimination is not all bad, when people boycott some big box retailer or food chain or company they are discriminating, it brought a lot of changes some good some bad, but mostly good, so again, I feel in my heart this is the way to go and do things.

    This is why I don't think those people using the legal system should get that far in this case.

    Would be better if, people started a campaign on French streets to discriminate against racists, if the free speech sensor is showing an increase on racist talk.

    Everyone of us should condemn those racists public even if they are doing it for the LuLz, and this will sound funny, but this is one case you don't want to discriminate against and try and sort it out, anybody who used that should get the same response and that would be a good old fashioned shunning from everyone he knows.

     

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    Ninja (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 6:28am

    As wisely noted hate speech is greatly empowered when people pay attention and actually get offended by it. Ignore them and they'll be the angry ones.

    I personally don't like how the Jewish institutions in power act so I sort of understand the hatred. Still throwing idiotic statements on the internet or wherever is not the path to deal with it. And most Jewish people have nothing to do with those in power. It's like blaming all Muslims for the stupidity of a few fundamentalists.

     

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      Grover (profile), Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 10:18am

      Re: As wisely noted,

      I agree with this statement. However, in practice, I've found it quite difficult to accomplish when faced with a highly motivated, fanatical mindset (think of our esteemed Westboro Baptist Church). While it is more-than-likely true, hate-speech mongers feed on being recognized and at the center of attention, which is why they're called attention-whores.

      Ignoring them and hoping they will go away hasn't seemed to work as well as hoped for - they just get more vocal and creative in pushing their agenda. In some cases, laws have curbed the brazen, in-your-face, confrontational excesses - but they've not extinguished the underlying motivation(s).

       

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        Ninja (profile), Mar 25th, 2013 @ 3:14am

        Re: Re: As wisely noted,

        I'd say simply ignoring would indeed be problematic. However getting angry and outraged just fuels them. Take action yes but don't give them the fuel.

        But in the end I don't agree with censoring this kind of speech. Punish those that go beyond speech and do it harshly. But just because someone says something hateful is not enough reason for doing what France has done.

         

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    Roman, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 9:06am

    Jurisdiction

    France thinks Twitter should follow French law? By that logic a country where having a website is illegal should initiate a lawsuit and take down the entire Internet.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 10:30am

    Like Benito Juarez said "el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz" (respect for the rights of others is peace). Free speech ends when it violates the freedom of others. In other words, when you are threatening to kill someone or a group of people.

     

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    identicon
    UEJFFART, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 12:11pm

    so whats wrong you UEJF fARtS?

    if the holocaust means "6 mil jews died" then i will deny gladly.
    even 1 million will be too much
    gas chambers are a made up farce.
    most died because of typhus.
    Zyklon B was for disinfectation.
    the jewish population after WW2 was quite bigger so where's the "gap" ?

    remember David Cole

    FUCK UEJF.

     

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      Marcel de Jong (profile), Mar 25th, 2013 @ 5:25am

      Re:

      I've been to several concentration camps. I've seen the photos that were taken there of the people that were imprisoned at Dachau and Auschwitz.
      I've seen the actual gas chambers, I've visited the remnants.

      What have you done, ignorant Holocaust denier?

      You want a dose of Zyklon B to prove that it doesn't kill people?

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2013 @ 4:58pm

    Hats off to Jewish Mike Masnick who refuses to get sucked in by the emotional aspects. He's correct; the intelligent warrior knows that the answer to free speech problems is more free speech, or as Masnick puts it " Ignorant speech should be countered with non-ignorant speech". Censorship just represents an even more hateful intolerance. Let Freedom Ring !

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    known coward, Mar 25th, 2013 @ 5:16am

    this is in france, not the US.

    French people, file suit in france against the twitter-france the french version of twitter. "Quell suprise".

    France does not have free speech the way we have it in the states. Twitter should obey french law or stop doing business in france.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    identicon
    Jack, Jun 26th, 2013 @ 12:30pm

    Anti-Semitism is exploding in Europe. In Denmark, the police have warned Jews not to wear any religious symbols in public at the risk of being assaulted. Jewish children in Denmark attend private schools which are surrounded by barbed-wire fences. In Hungary, public officials are openly anti-Semitic. The same is true in Greece and in the Ukraine. In Chile, Jews have been accused of arson resulting in the destruction of thousands of acres of land in Patagonia. Jews have been expelled from hundreds of countries during the past 300 years. Isn't it time Jews asked themselves why they are so intensely hated by everyone on the planet?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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